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A conversation with Sir Vijay Tendulkar
On 17th dec 06, i was at NCPA for my first performance in mumbai,thanx to Thespo8 and Quasar Padamsay. My theatre gang from IT BHU,varanasi had arrived to watch it,12 of them.one of my juniors,abhijeet before coming to mumbai, had a talk with Sir Vijay Tendulkar on phone and had asked for a meeting during his visit to which he had agreed. On 18th march,while all of them were getting ready to leave, abhijeet called him up at 9 AM and tendulkar sir asked to come on 19th as he wasnt well. But when abhijeet said he had a train tonight he asked him to call back at 4.At 4 he asked to come by 6, and abhijeet,vaibhav (one of my lead actors in my last play at campus) and I went to his house to meet him. A modest house in a very modest building. A care taker and a dog welcomed us in and after waiting for 2 mins in a drawing room fitted with almirahs having just books, we were called to where he was sitiing. He asked for introduction and after realising that abhijeet and Vaibhav had come to watch my performance, he said to me “Aise dost hone chahiye”. We told him that we have been doing theatre for quite sometime and we have questions in our mind regarding writing. This is how the whole conversation went….
WE: After reading your plays I got the strength to portary my perception more honestly. But people ask me and they must have asked you also..”Why baby“, “why sakharam“…”is life really so dark and cruel?”
HE: what is your answere to such questions?
US: I tell them,that your plays are an extrapolation of reality. Baby accepted suffering dutifully the way dark people accepted slavery and slaughter…. Acceptance of torture is a way of living…Baby is an extrapolation of reality.
HE: I personally dont bother about people who havn’t seen life. They close their eyes at the sight of suffering as if it doesnt exist. The fact is that life is dark and cruel, its just that you dont care for the truth. You dont want to see it because it might make you uncomfortable. If escapism is your way of living then you will fail to see the truth. I have not written about hypothetical pain or created an imaginary world of sorrow. I am from a middle class family and I have seen the brutal ways of life by keeping my eyes open. My work has come from within me,as an outcome of my observation of the world in which I live. If they want to entertain and make merry, fine go ahead, but I cant do it, I have to speak the truth.
WE: Khamosh!adalat Zari hai,made me realise that to classify people, emotions, relationships into right-wrong, good-evil, fair-unfair is not appropriate. The better classification wud be “comfortable-uncomfortable”. But it is extremely difficult to convince others through writing. what conscious effort do you make to ensure that your point goes accross?
HE: good-bad, right-wrong, once you tag things like that, you lose the abilty to see the complete truth. Criminal is not only a criminal.A murderer can also be a loving father.firstly, Dont tag things. The words which you and I have just used, they are insufficient to describe the picture in totality.Try not getting trapped in the dictionary meaning of words. As for me, I simply care to see and keep my eyes open, what comes out in my writing is natural without the concious effort of convincing or justifying.
WE: At times the charecters we design have the same weaknessess that we have and sketching that charecter honestly would be like accepting your weaknesses. Its difficult to accept your own weaknessess and sufferings and write about them honestly. What should one do?From where does one get courage to write about his own weaknesses honestly?
HE: Maintaining distance between your experiences and writings helps a lot. Its not necessary to write exactly at the time when you have just experienced something. give time, it will give you clarity to see things better. Once you are at a distance fom your experiences, when you see things from outside, you write more honestly. Besides, the pain of writing the truth will always be there, “yeh tapasya ki tarah hai”.,learn to bear it.
WE: At times we feel very strongly about something,but the moment we pen it down it appears very stupid. It all suddenly starts appearing so small after it is written. what should one do?
HE: Dont worry, it happens even with a lot of experienced writers. come back to what you have penned after 10days, 20 days again and again,it will make more sense to you then.
WE: How does one research before writing?
HE: Research is not the right word. I dont deliberately try to find out things before I write. One does not live to write. You live, and writing beomes an offshoot from it. I live my life keeping my eyes open, observing things, and then something comes to me from what I had seen before and I write it down. I feel something and then I expresss my feelings, it comes from within, based on how I have lived.
US: Is it right to do the reverse of this? At times I just want to write, and for that I deliberately search within myself to find something worthy of writing.
HE: I dont do this but then there are various processess of creativity. It might work for you, but it doesnt for me. In this case of Afzal, I am reading all the articles in newspapers and magazines, just gathering information about him gradually. May be some day I might reflect on him.
WE: Our perception of reality is influenced by our own experiences, at times I feel that what I am writing is what I think to be true, but may be the truth is entirely different?
HE: What is reality? The coexistence of the observer and the happening makes the reality. Reality becomes reality only when it is seen. There is nothing like absolute reality.Your perception of what is happening combined with the happening makes the picture of reality complete. Dont get frustrated, write what you see.
WE: How much is it important for a writer to be well read? At times it interferes with your own writing,so doesnt it contaminate it?There is always a fear of borrowed writing?
HE: A man who just sits in his room and reads books without looking at the outside world is only half a man. But if you observe and read too, then it helps you in sharpening the tool of language. It gives you ways of expression. You learn how to express and your language improves which makes it easy to write. Dont worry about the borrowing part as long as you are honest.Your writing will always be influenced by your experiences with other people. will you call it borrowing from them. Reading is just another experience.
WE: When did you start writing?
HE: so many people have asked this question.
WE: We are from middle calss north indian families, where children eigther become doctors or engineers. Theatre and literature is never encouraged, its useless according to parents. We were exposed to theatre at IT BHU at an age of 19-20. So at times we doubt that may be we are too late to begin writing.
HE: ok. I started writing at an early age. But dont worry, about age. Its never too late. I have friends who have started writing at the age of 50 and they write excellently. Just keep going and it will come.
And before we could say any thing else he started coughing badly. He reached for the glass of water on the table and after taking few sips, his hand started shivering badly. He was trying to put the glass back on the table but couldn’t do it. I moved ahead to take the glass from him and he gestured with the other hand-”No”. We left with the words,”we would wish to meet you again later” and he nodded a big yes while still coughing.
{oz note: to know more on one of the greatest playwrights you could start with Wiki}
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- Thank you for this! Gems of information for aspiring writers… It was truly sad to note how he struggled to put the glass of water back on the table and yet his hand gesturing a big NO to your offer to help… tells so much of Tendulkar-sahab…
Thank You…
I know this is almost criminal but as a comment, I am going to post something longer than the post itself!But it’s too tempting and too good an insight on Tendulkar.
Here’s a write-up on Tendulakar by one of the leading playwrights and journalists in Mumbai, Ramu Ramunathan :
My Salaam To Vijay Tendulkar - RR
Vijay Tendulkar tends to be equated with the big plays, the controversial films, the dubious debates. But one of the reasons, Tendulkar remains a living playwright, is the manner in which he surfaces in the most unexpected of places.
In the last summer, I saw the staging of two of Tendulkar’s one act plays, OLAKH and GOSHT in the boy’s common room at Ruparel College. The staging was stark with minimal props and one halogen light. In a clever bit of improvisation, six table-tennis tables were placed vertically to demarcate areas and wings. There was an audience of more than 70-odd youngsters who sat on the floor or bench-chairs, in the sweltering heat; and revelled in the experience.
Ruparel (like innumerable city colleges in Mumbai) has a strong culture of theatre. In the eighties, ex-students like Shafaat Khan, made the college their adda. In the early nineties, Satyadev Dubey conducted workshops in the very same common room. These sessions attracted 250 students and young people. During these sessions, Dubey invited (to be precise, demanded ) theatre groups to showcase their plays for the benefit of the workshop students. Besides Naseeruddin Shah’s plays, the common room had seen shows of Tendulkar’s BABY (directed by Chetan Datar) and CYCLEWALLAH (directed by Sunil Shanbag). It amazing, how this tradition of hosting Tendulkar’s plays continues. And his writing continues to reign.
The plays are used by young students as reading exercises; and as part of study groups. What this means is, Tendulkar’s plays become a benchmark for the newest generation of Marathi Rangakarmi. This includes, new talent like Irawati Karnik, Deepak Rajyadaksha, Adwait Dadarkar, Darshan Jadhav, etc. They perform the plays in a space which is fully utilised, sometimes spilling into the huge balcony, the maidan outside and even the canteen on the ground floor. The energy, the madness that is theatre has to be seen to be believed. And this is possible, to a great extent, since the reputation of Tendulkar (like Shakespeare in England) gives legitimacy to their activity.
Tendulkar’s body of work is formidable. He has penned 28 full length plays, seven collections of one-acts, six collections of children’s plays, four collections of short stories, three collections of essays, a novel, and 17 film scripts, in a short span of 50 years. In an interview, he famously said, “Give me a piece of paper, any paper and a pen and I shall write as naturally as the bird flies or a fish swims. For the last 50 years, I have been writing, sitting in newspaper offices, at roadside restaurants, on the crowded local trains and when my living space did not allow me to be myself, I have written in the bathroom. And I have written on the sick bed in the hospital in spite of the doctor’s advice to not tax myself. He did not know that writing was not taxing for me at all. On the contrary it was soothing. It was a great relief. It was joy.”
But these days, it is not easy to write. For a playwright, in today’s time to confront an indifferent audience is untenable. Tendulkar knows this. He cares. He is aware, we inhabit a bizarre world. The theatre as we understand it has moved from candid intensity to intense candour. Everyone is chattering, aloud, and the noise is insufferable. It could blunt lesser minds.
In the Tirugata annual performances at Ninasam, they have one Kannada play, one adaptation of an Indian play and one translated Western play. And the common factor in the Tirugata plays is that the first scene has to have more noise onstage than the noise in the audience! IPTA used this modus operandi, ages ago, when they had ideology on their side. An open truck would enter a crowded mohalla, create a hullabaloo, and the play would be performed on the truck.
One of the reasons this is happening is because we’ve begun to distrust the potency of the word.
And then, suddenly in the midst of the clamour and din, I attended a Tendulkar reading. It was a simple, unfussy format. He was alone on an enormous stage, accompanied by a few sheets of papers. He read his favourite poems by the new generation of Marathi poets, short stories, even newspaper columns. Basically, fragmented thoughts, and remarkably, the audience sat in rapt attention for more three hours. This was the magic of the word. Of course, it helps matters that Tendulkar (in the finest tradition of Marathi playwrights) is a brilliant reader. It also provided a big boost to the popularity ratings of the poets, authors, essayists.
Then, on cue, there was a bit of drama. Tendulkar began reading Jayant Pawar’s interview with a death clerk in the Worli crematorium. Jayant Pawar, is a playwright-journalist (like Tendulkar was). He had conducted the interview in the early nineties. This interview was read by Vijay Tendulkar in an 1500 seater auditorium in Mulund. The audience was spell bound. This was because, the death clerk unselfconsciously discusses the deathliness of death with disarming honesty. The facts make a mockery of all our fancy notions of Hindu death rites. Inevitably, a few members of the middle-class, Brahmin audience raised a ruckus. It was a bulls eye. Tendulkar had scored.
Tendulkar paused, and enquired, if he should continue, and he did so, unruffled. Since then, Tendulkar has been having these readings at small gatherings, Municipal Schools. And through poems, essays, and Jayant Pawar’s interview (which is dying to be adapted onto the stage), Tendulkar celebrates the sense of dialogue.
Of course, there are obstacles. And the first thrust of control is usually directed towards the performing art. Since they are easy, soft targets. Recent history indicates that authoritarian powers are now aiming first at control of the performance arts media rather than the print media since the latter are more vulnerable to manipulation.
This is the main reason, Maharashtra has witnessed a longish saga of “banned” plays: Keechak Wadh by K P Khadilkar, Sakharam Binder and Gidhade by Vijay Tendulkar, Mee Nathuram Boltoy by Pradeep Dalvi, Bedtime Story by Kiran Nagarkar, Yada Kadachit by Santosh Pawar, Avadhya by C T Khanolkar, Golpeetha by Suresh Chikhale. The list is endless. And Tendulkar is in the midst of this battle in a Maharashtra which bans bar girls, makes people stand up for national anthem before a Bollywood or Hollywood phillum, silences voices of dissent.
Speaking of dissent, the most famous example of preventing a performance of a play is Vijay Tendulkar’s Ghashiram Kotwal. This play production was never banned officially by any government. However, the performances were stopped in 1972 because RSS applied pressure on the theatre group PDA. The group was established in 1952 by Bhalba Kelkar, Dr Lagoo, etc. Innumerable seniors from PDA had RSS linkage. This group within PDA decided to abandon the production of Ghashiram. On cue, the young artists revolted and established Theatre Academy, Pune on March 27, 1973. Theatre Academy could not perform play for one year till the political ruckus against the play, settled. Some of the socialists like the late N G Gore opposed the play. The play was considered an anti Brahmin play by Punekar Brahmins. It was directed by a Muslim. Although most of the actors were Brahmins (that too thorough-bred Chittpavans) like Agashe, Gadre, Kale, Pendse, Ranade and so on.
The second round of threat came in 1980 when the play was invited for the Berlin International Theatre Festival. This time, the Shiv Sena was in the forefront along with Vasant Sathe who was a Minister in the Central Cabinet in Delhi. Shiv Sena activists went in to court to get stay on the international tour planed by Theatre Academy, Pune. Sharad Pawar intervened. He arranged a formal meeting with Bal Thackeray at his residence. Theatre Academy artists attended. People like Sudhir Damle led the opposition. The other person opposing Ghasiram during the famous meeting. He was Daji Panshikar (brother of Prabhakar Panshikar). Interestingly, Vinay Apte (a theatrewallah close to Bal Thackeray) supported the play. Atal Bihari Vajpeyi supported the play. Jabbar Patel and Mohan Agashe made a presentation, but the meeting was non conclusive. Bal Thackeray was steadfast. He said the play should not go abroad.
Artists had to resort to police protection. The then Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi intervened. Her PM note, drafted by her advisor Sharada Prasad in consultation with V N Gadgil (who supported the play and was also a Minister in Central Cabinet) and Kumud Mehta of NCPA. Satyajit Ray, Shombhu Mitra, Utpal Dutt, Mrinal Sen despatched telegrams to the PM office in support of the play. Of course (as all of us know), the play had a wonderful tour to West Europe with 25 performances. It got rave reviews in London Times, Guardian, Der Spigel, NTQ.
The Court issued an order that before each performance, a statement which was approved by the Court should be read-out. This statement publicly praised the achievements of Nana Phadanvis, over and above, stating that the play was not based on the true history. Theatre Academy followed the court order.
There is an interesting postscript. Since 1996, the University of Pune has included Ghashiram Kotwal in its BA/MA (Theatre) syllabus in its prescribed textbook. In 2000, one of the MA students staged Sakharam Binder as a production for MA (Theatre) practical exam. In the past, the student was a RSS activist. His parents have been full-time RSS activists for 20 years.
Strange, but true.
One flashbacks into history because it is an important co-oridnate to understand today’s processes. Tendulkar took punga, then. He takes bigger pungas now. He believes in the axiom that a good writer, upsets both sides. One sorely misses this in today’s theatre. Last year, the vibrant Marathi prayogik rangabhoomi (experimental theatre) staged more than 25 plays. This is terrific, and part of a larger churning at the grassroot-level. But almost all the plays were conformist and traditional. No one, it seems is daring to rebel.
The powers that be are clever. The Andhra Pradesh Government may arrest Vera Vera and Kalyan Rao in full public glare, but for most parts the forces of intolerance prefer to co-opt the author. Its easier, and no one protests.
This makes a lot of sense when you consider what happened to Vijay Tendulkar, who was in the news, after the Gujarat genocide, when he said if had a pistol, he would shoot Narendra Modi. I was travelling in Gujarat during those days, and I realised how unpopular Tendulkar is. The Gujarati middle class and Gujarati press loathed him. Effigies were burnt. Of course this is the very same middle class and press which worships, Mr Modi, the kind and compassionate, who is everywhere. In newspapers, road hoardings, smiling beneficently from the back of ST buses, blessing the land and its people to Peace and Prosperity.
Most of my colleagues in theatre believed, Tendulkar shouldn’t have said what he did. That a true artiste should not get mixed up with politics. I, totally disagree. I believe, art and politics can never be separated. You can’t separate art and politics because politics is life. Its also a fact that life is political and art is about life, so it is inevitable that art should be political!
But the bigger issue is one about the nature of complicity in an artist. That is, what constitutes complicity? Is it one’s responsibility always to act out against a tyrannical regime, or to, in perhaps more subtle ways, to beat the system?
Being a theatrewallah from Mumbai, with supposed inside info, I was embroiled into a discussion in one of the road-side dhabas in Gujarat. The summation of a heated debate was, Tendulkar should be asked to leave the country, since he loathes its ways and means.
But the point is, you cannot ask Tendulkar to leave the country. Once you pose that question, then you have to ask the pao-wallah or garagewallah in Ahmedabad, so, you hate Mr Modi, too? Then leave!
Promptly, other voices joined the debate. Letters to the editor of the Marathi newspapers from Brahmins and upper caste Maharashtrians raved and ranted against Tendulkar. Even Sharad Pawar (who, unlike Mr Modi, is a progressive politician and a honourable man), stated in a public address that the responsibility of the well-known artist or historian is different.
But if you’re going to be consistent, the questions have to be the same. This is what Tendulkar makes us do. Even now. Ask those questions!
SPELLBINDING… POST AND COMMENT OF THE MONTH!!!
Thank you Oz. I thought you would kill me for this!
[...] At the Passion for Cinema blog, Sumit recalls a conversation with Vijay Tendulkar, one of the greatest playwrights of India. [...]
this is the best post i have read so far…truly inspirational…its gonna help me a lot
wow sumit….by the way someone should also write on ramu ramanathan..one man who religiously continues with political, experimental, theatre..you should get him to talk about his own approach to life and his art..that man is an inspiration to a lot of us today..
Ak: Ramu Ramanathan is my guru! I am either talking to him or talking about him. I promise I will get him on PFC. Very soon.
great stuff sumit… pertinent questions and what sharp insights from the man!
i liked last two questions and answers - it kinda gives beginners somewhat hope. i am not a writer - i hate writing (and reading), but i’ll have to learn to write (and read books) if i wish to get anywhere with my…
This is a masterpiece..Sumit Thanks a ton buddy…Havent seen such a passionate interview for ohh-so-long..every question asked was with the intent of getting knowledge and every question answered was to sincerly pass knowledge.. WOW…i am floored.. What i liked a lot in the interview is:
“good-bad, right-wrong, once you tag things like that, you lose the abilty to see the complete truth.”
“Try not getting trapped in the dictionary meaning of words”
This should not be just a blog. This should be in the print media also. Thanks so much, Sumit.
Just an after thought - may be Pawan and Magna can help get this published?
@ anurag, if i am not wrong ramu ramnathan has worked with jaimini pathak on a play called Mahadevbhai. I became his fan after seeing the play last year.
Wow Ramu Ramunathan’s take on Vijay sir’s id birlliant as well… Sumit is Irawati Karnik and Irawati Harshe the same?
Sumit: fantastic questions! Of course, I can’t comment anything on the answers that hasn’t been commented so far…
@Anurag and other writers on PFC
Can you please answere the questions we asked mr. vijay tendulkar, it will be of great value for a us.
Sumit fantastic ‘debut’ post !!!
Chaitanya ..thanks for the amazing comment !!!
That’s a million-dollar post Sumit…for gems like - “Its not necessary to write exactly at the time when you have just experienced something. give time, it will give you clarity to see things better.” Attached detachment is a hallmark of his writings!
And Chaitanya, what an informative burning article! “…the forces of intolerance prefer to co-opt the author. Its easier, and no one protests.” Very true.
thanks sumit.. this was a wonderful read for someone like me that doesn’t know too much about mr. tendulkar and his works. your post gave me a reason to research more about the man and his pieces. maybe in a future post, you could discuss the theater scene in bombay..? i would love to know more about it, having only acted in theater in the US. also, could you give some more details on thespo8 and quasar padamsay, and how you got involved with them?
Thnx for summing it up beautifully…
thanx,
the interview was really enlightening on what good values are in today’s world.Sir not only writes but also lives his ideals & it is lot to learn from.
Naina
Hi,
My name is Jagraj. I am from Singapore and I am taking the a’level subject of Theatre Studies and Drama. I am performing a monologue from the play “The Vultures” by Vijay Tendulkar for my exam and need to give information in my Critical Commentary of the play and how it was performed or what Vijay Tendulkar envisioned for it at that time. I would be very grateful if someone could give a website or book to look into or maybe even reply me the information.
Thank you
Thnx Sumit for sharing such a valubale interaction with a maestro.. Thnx Chaitanya for adding to the great man’s aura with such brilliant insights thru Ramu’s own perceptions.
Vijay Tendulkar died yesterday. It is appropriate, though not very coincidental, that I read this post of his interview and the subsequent, lo-o-ong comment about him today. Other than having read two of his plays (Yes, READ!) I’m unfortunately ignorant about his oeuvre. From the plays and from comments ABOUT him, however, it’s clear he was a giant as a social reformer.
May his legacy continue.
Chaitanya, Excellent Post.
I fully agree when you say Arts and Politics cannot really be separated.
On a related Note, Govind Nihalani’s film “Party” echoes similar debate about Artist’s detachment/attachment with Politics (more specifically, Artist’s Political Position).
Finally, a small observation about Vijay Tendulkar himself. While his Plays were far more complex to align themselves with any specific political positions - Tendulkar himself was very sharply political in is actions and beliefs . His Utterances about Narendra Modi was one such (and perhaps publicly final) episode.
Thank you for sharing that Sumit and Chaitanya. The news of his death hits like a personal loss…
thank u Sumit,Chaitanya and all who commented on Sir Tendulkar. when i heard about sir’s death, ghashiram struck me. When i saw the play that time only i wondered how did the orthodox digest the performance of the play? Why didn’t they oppose the truth? i got the ans that the truth-revealer has to accept blames and attacks as a part of the process? hats off to sir’s unshakable pen?
I will be greatfull to you if you can give me the email address where in I can send our condolance letter from our global head as well as our Mumbai Headquater.
Thanks,
B K Sarangi,
Secretary,
Rennaisance Writers and Artists Association, Mumbai.
thank you very much for tendulkars interview.
[...] sort of knew Vijay Tendulkar through his work but did not know about Chico Mendes until I heard the radio documentary. They both [...]