Aamir Khan : : Rang De Black to bring Taare on Zameen !
Aamir Khan’s new film Tare Zameen Par is going to be released in few days. Sanjay Leela Bhansali?s Black was released in January or February 2005. Which means more than 30 months have been passed since then and while making his directorial debut film TZP, Aamir Khan got realisation that Black was an insensitive film.
He writes on his blog ,
["My big exception towards Black is the fact that a child with severe difficulties is shown being ill-treated instead of being treated with love, care and understanding. I simply cannot come to terms with that no matter what the writer and director say in defence. I thought I was watching a rip off of Taming Of The Shrew! I take great exception to this kind of behaviour towards children being glorified and propagated through a popular mass medium as the way to deal with children with or without difficulties. I, without any hesitation, strongly condemn this kind of cinema no matter who is involved with the film, and that includes me if I ever have in the past, present or future made such an error of judgement. (http://www.aamirkhan.com/blog.htm)]
Amitabh Bachchan reacted against Aamir Khan?s accusations against the film with which he was also associated as an actor and for which he has been given National award in the best actor category.
Aamir writes also following on his blog.
[?On my comments on BLACK, let me start by commenting that I have the highest regard for Mr Bachchan and I am very big fan of his work. Probably one of the biggest. I believe that he along with Mr Dilip Kumar are among my two favourite actors of Indian Cimema. I have no hesitation in saying that I don?t even feature on the same platform as an actor. He is also in my opinion THE biggest star that Indian Cinema has ever seen. However as any member of the audience I too have a right to my opinion. And let me also clarify that my observations were towards the film and the way it was handled not towards any of the actors. I am very aware that the key of every performance is very much determined by the director.? (http://www.aamirkhan.com/blog.htm) ]
Earlier, like a recently made post on PFC, Aamir had objected on using VO of Michelle McNally (Rani Mukherji?s character) in the film Black because according to him Michelle was a mute person.
PFC’s post reveals that filmmaker Prakash Jha also had shown same reservation against the Black.
Its so strange situation that people go on singing same song without considering facts shown in a film. Aamir Khan might have been relying purely on his memory of seeing Black once and that too 2 years ago and that?s why he made mistakes in his comments against Black.
Nowhere in the film it has been mentioned or shown that Michelle McNally is a mute person. She was born as a normal child and due to an accident she had lost her ability to see and listen. Nowhere its mentioned that she lost her speaking ability also. Mr McNally, the father of Michelle clearly tells to Mrs McNally,” Doctor says, Hamaree Michelle sun nahin saktee dekh nahin sakti”,[Our Michelle neither can see nor listen].
There can be discussion among medical professionals about this condition because there is a difference between born deaf or born deaf and dumb people than whoever gets this deafness sometime after their birth. Not sure what is the medical truth but perhaps there are two possibilities.
- If a person is deaf by birth then its not necessary that he can’t speak also (so he can speak if learns how to utter words)
- If a person is dumb by birth then its (perhaps) necessary that he will not be able to hear also so dumbness and deafness are connected if dumbness is existing since birth
In case of Black, Michelle is born like any other normal child and after sometimes she loses ability to see and listen.
Her VO is used, only after she becomes familiar with the words and language and such scenario and approach is not unjustified. When filmmakers can show what a person is seeing in his/her dreams then why they cant show what a person is saying inside him/her?
This is very ill logic which people use to justify their personal disliking towards the film Black. Better they search better logics and issues against the film.
Aamir Khan commits a mistake again when he quotes/raises one more issue that the story was about a child, who was going though a mental trauma and no parent in the real world would be ready to leave the child alone with an alcoholic for 40 days?.
Perhaps Aamir saw some different version of Black where Debraj Sahay asks Mrs McNally to give complete control over Michelle for 40 days.
The version we ordinary audience got to see had mentioned a period of 20 days only. So can we read Aamir’s writings by reducing them to 50% ? He may be having some real problems with Black but 50% issues are generated in his mind only.
Does Black show that Debraj Sahay slaps Michelle again and again? He slaps her only once and that too after she slaps him. Debraj even objects on calling Michelle a poor or disable girl. He calls her different.
Michelle is not mentally challenged or physical disabled in that sense that she cant move and hence she has no realisation of her weakness and physically she is strong. She is wild because she has got physical strength in her body.
Aamir will object if a film shows fight between two kids and they slap each other or in any film where parents slap their kids?
When film’s character Debraj does not treat her as weak or mentally challenged kid then why Aamir as an audience should impose his own definitions on a film?
May be his forthcoming film TZP has some weak mentally challenged kids and he is under that impression but Black is different story and why as an intelligent filmmaker and actor, he cant realise these realities?
Aamir saw a challenged child is handed over to an alcoholic and we found that Alcoholic teacher was saying to Mrs McNally, “and no alcohol for me for all these days”.
Parents who may be big scientists by profession even go in to the shelter of Ojha and Tantrik in the end for their kids when they find no solace anywhere. Black shows, McNally family had no other solution than taking risk of hiring Debraj Sahay and Mr McNally asks Debraj to leave his house when he finds Debraj is arrogant and bit violent also. Its Mrs McNally, the mother who takes last chance for the sake of her daughter. Many parents will take that risk and many have been taking.
If ordinary audience who have no real exposure of film making raises objects on such issues then for once it looks fine but its sad to see that a filmmaker and actor is dealing with these irrelevent issues shown in a film.
Perhaps Aamir forgot to accuse Black or atleast first half of Black as totally riped off of the film The Miracle Worker otherwise he could have seen Anne Sullivan (Anne Bancroft) slapping child Helen Keller.
He simply forgets Black does not show contemporary era but an era which may belong to 40s and 50s.
When Aamir does a period film where he has to play a character based in 19th or 20th century or in era before 1950s, then will he insist changing shades of his character so that he can satisfy prevailing situations of present era?
He very easily covers himself also that if he has done any wrong film in past where he was shown to be callous with challenged kids then he should also be criticised.
This is very noble intention to bring proper attention towards challenged kids and propagating message that all should opt caring and loving attitude towards such kids.
But ideally he can do it by promoting his own, to be released, film rather than to shower unnecessary criticism on a film released two years ago. Black had different context and hopefully Tare Zameen Par has different context and both films can coexist.
Hopefully TZP works as an activist film also and it spreads good message among audience and May god provides a great success to TZP.
We can say about Aamir Khan that Naam hi kafi hai (Name is sufficient). His every new release generates huge curiosity and if he has taken resort of criticising Black just to bring focus on TZP then it was not required. Aamir is already a darling actor for millions and people just wait for his new films. If he seriously criticised Black then his arguments are very weak and don’t match with the image of an intelligent and perfectionist actor. Perfectionist searches perfection in his arguments also before making them open for all.
This was a bad shot from an erstwhile Tennis Player or if he plays chess these days then it was a wrong move. In real life it is not necessary to drag others down for climbing up. One can go up independently without keeping his feet on chest or head of someone.
Never expected this kind of stupidity from a person of Aamir’s calibre. What an actor and what a sincere person and still committed such mistake which easily could have been avoided. As a big admirer of Aamir Khan, his act is a big disappointment.
Nevertheless, waiting eagerly for Taare Zameen Par which may bring biggest surprise of this year.
It was rumoured that Aamir had directed large portion of Hum Hain Rahi Pyar Ke because Mahesh Bhatt used to direct 5-6 films at same time during those days and being perfectionist Aamir did not like this arrangement of bearing direction of ADs of Mahesh Bhatt and hence himself took keen interest in execution of the shots.
Hope Aamir proves to be a wonderful director. As a producer he has money, as an actor he is one of the best actors of his generation and as a person he is known as a hard working perfectionist and hence expectations are very high from Taare Zameen Par and hope Aamir satsifies that big expectation.
This year we have seen The Blue Umbrella and its expected TZP carries ahead flag of films, covering subjects dealing with kids.
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RK…hope mr khan reads it. or lets put a link of this post on his blog. anyway, he is smart guy and knows what to talk when and what will get people talking. with rdb,it was the activist aamir. now the activist aamir has become the sensitive aamir. and narmada is just history. its all about visibility.
wud hav been much happier if he had spoken about black n miracle worker. and like slb’s stories are all set in never neverland,i think his charcters can also be taken for granted to be from never neverland’s people. so anything can happen anyway.
@Phoenixnu,
Aamir will be damn busy in the release procedure of his forthcoming film and why he would care for an article here? Moreover when many PFCians themselves have similar reservations about Black then why only Aamir should read such things? He reads or not but people should watch films attentively and should pay required attention while criticising a film for something. Their arguments should be based on facts else they look like ill attempts to demean others works.
Yes Aamir Khan is very good in promoting his films. But personally I would not like to see all his social activist issues interconnected with promotion of his films only.
He had not talked about Gujarat to promote his any film because then he was not working in any film.
It may happen that his senes and awareness about social issues have been awakened because of his deep involvement in the research material he gathers for preparing for his films. We have to see how he behaves in future after TZP.
This is albeit true that he is available to media just before the release of his films else while making films he is unavailble.
Mr Shatrughan Sinha also had raised similar reservations regarding Aamir’s love for social causes.
But as that story of ” Bheria aya bheria aya” is always true, people cant be made fool again and again, if Aamir raises social issues just to fetch attention towards his films only.
We have to see this time, whether his concern for these different children is real and he does something for them or his statements are just mental exercise which Miss World and Miss Universe contensts follow when face question round. Every contenst there dies to do social serive and later almost all end up in making cue to enter in to the films and then ist competition among similar people and few years later its marriage and The End.:)
Lets see how much weight Mr Aamir Khan is carrying this time through his crusade against cruelty towards different kids. Pray he is genuinely thinking and doing something for them.
Sikandar ne porus se kee thi ladaai…
to main kya karun?
even in my personal opinion..aamir is pretty honest…and speaks only when he forms a concrete opinion about the issue or subject…well while at time of rdb…the activist element in movie might have latently contributed to his role in narmada activism….while when in taare zameen par..when he came close to issue of dealing wid handicaps of children..he expressed his opinion vocally…i feel even at the first screening of black he might have felt odd about the handling of kid..but now that he has made a movie bout it..n he understands his topic more thoroughly..n thus he chose to voice his opinion..now that his views(prejudices) are firmly entrenched..
..regarding his integrity as a flashpoint of his movie sense..i dont feel like seeing a conspiracy theory against it..as he voiced his opinion against gujarat..n had to face some problem while release of fanaa…one more reason to believe is that he refused to sign a deal of 60 crore for 3 film wid a corporate house jus because they had no script ready..contrast this wid attitude of hrithik n akshay who sold out for lesser bucks without a script in place..well while akshay n hrithik might hv their reasons..aamir i believe stands apart for his integrity n passion for the cinema,,he does…
…i will ask the question to this forum are our opinions not shaped by the things we do,read n defend…then why should we expect aamir to be different…now that he is working wid a child issue he chose to voice his opinion..though as rightly pointed out by RK it might hv been a bit subjective..
…in my personal opinion..when i saw black..i was bowled over by it..simply because j had seen nothing better..now having watched a lot of movies..i realise that though i find the movie even now beautiful,well shot..but clearly it is manipulative…
…the girl was hit in black..just shows an example..though it might hv been the case in miracle worker too..we should stand up n call it manipulation for what it is whether it be in miracle worker or black…there are better ways of disciplining an educating an errant kid let alone a sensory-stupefied kid..than hitting even in older eras…n coming from an ideal teacher its a bit too terse…
….in any case my personal viewpoint is that bhansali bases his movies in neverland so that he can play GOD in them..n thus manipulating his audience as well as his characters..
..n that is why despite being a big fan of hum dil de chuke, not so big fan of black..n hater of devdas…i feel that bhansali wid all his aesthetic epilogues n imagination is a populist at heart…n hangs in limbo between hard core realism..or free wheeling imagination
i dont know why amir said that?
i personaly liked black.
is it only film promotion?
or is that he felt only while making tzp?
amir speacks from his heart.
the statment by amir for me is very conffusing.
Aamir has always (apparently) spoken his mind … well, its just that he speaks selectively.
What surprises me, though, is the ever-and-always-except-when-talking-about-Mahesh-Bhatt-diplomatic Big B mouthing “it went over the top .. of his head”.
That is totally out of character.
The whole thing reeks of conspiracy. Conspiracy to get TZP more eyeballs, that is.
this article is quite relevant…in fact i was also taken aback when i read aamir’s blog…
and his objection to michelle mcnally being the voice over in Black is quite ridiculous…this has been used in literature and cinema so many times…..faulkner’s “sound and the fury” has as the narrator of one of the sections a mentally challenged person…..
his other objections were also quite off the track…..he has used words like propagation of violence against children using cinema as a mass medium….that is an absolute exaggeration….never in black has violence against children been tomtommed….
i totally agree with the author…aamir said that he dint like black… why??.. not because it was made badly but because he dint like the way the child is treated… as the author has made it very clear that in the movie AB slaps the gal only once… infact he makes every1 believe that the girl is a normal child, so aamir’s allegations are baseless.. but let us assume that aamir is right, my question is isnt cinema suppose to be reflection of reality??.. arent there kids in the world treated badly… dont parents hand over thier kids to tantriks too as the author too pointed out.. i dont think sanjay b tried to say the world that beat up ur kids and audiences understood that but its dissapointing to see that an intelligent actor like aamir does not understand that…i think different people ve different way of living..and big b’s character too had a certain way of behaving and living,, all this was a part of something that one wud call as characterisation… i think as an actor aamir wants to play on positive roles or roles which give hope but maybe amitabh wants to be play darker roles too…black was a dark film and so was his character i believe.. in rdb aamir’s character kills a politician… i think i too ve a right to say that it was wrong.. but thats not the point, the point is audience was intelligent enough to understand the msg behind rdb and they understood the point behind black too.. i m not saying he did anything wrong by expressing his views.. im just saying he has stupid views…:d
Black is almost a master piece(almost coz, I dont want to be the only judge of a wrong decision
)
It has some best of the(in fact life time) actings, great directions and a great story(though borrowed from real story of Hellen Keller, but then how may Indians know about her).
It covers the gap of a commercial cinema and art cinema and that too beautifully.
Talking about Amir’s objections about the movie : Are not disabled children subjected to bad treatment? Are not mute/deaf girls being raped? Are not they employed by the big begging industry? Just not showing these facts in movies doesnt make them disappear…these devils are there and we see them in our daily life….dont you Amir?
So what makes u cry about a story of a girl who is cared very much by her parents, have a good loving sister and a sincere and wellwishing teacher? So what if she is slapped once? So what if her teacher or parent get angree over her for some reason? Are not they the same who tried and tried and tried untill she became a graduate?
Is it not just a movie? Are not movies largely a work of fiction? Are your talks not as senseless as our Govt’s decision to ban smoking on screen where as its the same Govt who collects taxes on the same item? Are not you(say honestly) trying to promote ur movie by creating controvercies around the subject and youself? And are not you trying to over-do urself by critising Amitabh, as its impossible for anybody to touch the heights in acting he has acheived?
Sorry Amir, for saying one thing here…..Indian Industry has not seen a person, who is both as big a style icon and as great an actor as Amitabh is. If you dare consider urself as great an actor as AB, then you are no where near his styles. You can not give us a Don, Deewar, Agneepath or Naseeb, forget about carrying a bad role like Shehanshah so well. SRK being a style person can defenetly not give us a Black, Main Aazaad Hoon, Dev or Baghban.
Sorry for saying this all, you choose the wrong movie and most wrong person to promote ur movie.
Abhishek
amir is wrong in this case. simply attacking Ab and Bhansali
@ anupam..
i dont think bhansali is a populist….
khamoshi
Black
and to an extent Devdas are not populist
personally i didnt expect Black to work but it did….maybe because of the high praises lavished upon it..
and how can u term slapping a girl as manipulation
sure there are better ways for educating an errant child…but i dont think u read the above post carefully…debraj slaps the girl when she slaps him….that slap was not meant to educate her but to discipline her……
slapping as a way of disciplining a child is a debatable issue….but u cant deny that it is the most widely used one…..so its far from manipulative…..
also be it bhansali or any other director every director manipulates his audience when he takes him into his own world of cinema
where a few bunch of villagers can in three months time be capable enough to defeat a much better english team….
where there exists a program to make people quit smoking by chopping of their fingers…
…ideally its the journey that is important
if its enjoyable and enriching then who cares whether the premise is located in neverland or dharavi…
personally i am a big fan of aamir and i dont think he must have done this for his movie’s publicity but i agree with RK coz i dont find his arguments valid……
Sawal ye nahi hai ki Black ke baare mai uske vichar kya hai
Sawal ye hai itne din kya Jhank Maar rahe the kya
And to all who feel that now he has made TZP he realises blah blah..
This is utter crap.. You dont realise it only before “YOUR” movie releases..
Sab Dhanda hai par Ganda hai yE..And all are the Same..
Your view seems more like a personal attack to aamir..
you are critcizing his blog literally and failing to see the global point he is making…
nevertheless..
this was quite irrelvant article..
Hi RK,
I can see that you have watched Black very ‘intimately’- probably after reading Aamir’s blog to prepare a defence against it. Otherwise, in all that opera-tic nonsense who cares to remember how many days of total control that old alcoholic eccentric asks for or how many times that caricaturish dad slaps Michelle. I am not an authority on filmmaking and I would not draw parallels of some critically acclaimed foreign films that people like you hunt for after reading about them on Google. As a normal viewer I have one simple issue with Black- when Michelle belongs to a reasonably well to do family why is she shown through out the movie dressed up in some funny clothes and Charlie Chaplin like shoes, not to forget that utterly funny and disgusting walk. It is nothing but a desperate attempt at emotional manipulation. As far as Bhansali is concerned his only decent rather original work has been ‘Khamoshi’. ‘Hum Dil de chuke’ was distastefully inspired by ‘woh saat din’, ‘Devdas’ was confused indulgence and ‘Saawariya’ is nothing short of intellectual masturbation. I think he would be well off as a set designer or an art director than a story teller.
I think, if people like you had a way, why only an Oscar you would probably nominate SLB for a Nobel Prize just for that quasi intellectual looks that he sports with his itchy beard and ‘black’ outfits. And don’t you worry; TZP can be bad but can
everyone on this blog having issues with aamirs interview, first please read his interview clearly.. he was asked by the the interviewer about his views on black… he didnt just start talking about black on his own…
secondly read amitabh’s interview.. he clearly mentions that aamir told him about his reservations about black after seeing it for the first time itslef.
If aamir has acted inappropriately saing that the he dint like the movie and that the acting was over the top.. was it decent enough of amitabh to say that the performances were over the top of aamirs head ??
if anyone was supposed to be offended with aamirs comments, it had to be SLB. but he is pretty cool about the whole thing.. then why the hell is it bothering others… just give him a break… he dint like the movie… and you all did…. even I did… but he has as much right to an opinion as any one of us.
and coming to narmada andolan…. dont you think you should do a little back ground check before pointing fingers on him… aamir has always maintained in his interviews that he is not a social activist. he is an actor and an entertainer. and so its his responsibility as a citizen to throw light on some issues and that wht he did in gujurat. he was neither against the dam, nor for the dam.. he was just concerned about the villagers who were gonna loose their homes.. the villagers who were not provided with substitute shelter…
but as we indians are… we just want a reason to make a big deal out of it and fill the newspapers and website blogs..
why cant we for once listen to what he (or any one for that matter) said rather focus our complete attention on why so and so person said such a thing and exactly when did he say it.
so wht if he said it whn his movie was about to release…
dont we have a separate state of mind whn we experience terror, riots and bomb blasts? doesnt our thinking process revole around wht we witnessed in real life or saw on TV. then y is he banned from reacting and expressing his views…
the author of this blog clearly knows that aamir khan needs no one(not even amitabh bachan) for promoting his films.
if his answer pisses you so much, catch the reporter who asked him, his review on black..
we belong to a nation where we critisize people who are politically correct and at the same time will not appreciate the ones who are honest
First thing first Aamir Khan is known to be perfectionist so may be while knowing more details about mentally n physically disabled kids he might have found something in Black that didn
Well as we all know Amir does not make many public appearances, neither we get to read/watch his interviews much often. The interview and public appearances now are obviously to promote his film and we can not blame him for that, everybody does that.
Since Amir’s movie deals with teacher-student relationship the interviewer asked his about his comments on another similar film, black in this case. So we can not blame the interviewer for that either.
Amir answered, whatever he felt about the movie, and he is surely entitled to his opinion. I clearly don’t understand all the fuss about it.
Also, Amir is not the only person who felt this way about the movie. I also felt the same way. So why fight over nothing. Also, I don’t think it was done intentionally, so can we forget Amir’s or that interviewer’s mistake and hope TZP is a good movie.
@udai…the point here is not whether Black is a good film or a bad film….the point here is the nature/quality of Aamir’s criticism of Black…the criticism is not technical at all and has nothing practically to do with the film….Aamir being a great actor (I am a big admirer of Aamir’s work myself) doesn’t really exonerate him of wrongful criticism…couple of other points about your comment…hum dil de duke chanam has more resemblance with a bengali novel that woh saat din….does it mean that SLB has plagiarised Hum dil de chuke sanam from that bengali novel…..also the reason why michelle mcnally wears chaplin like shoes is in the movie itself…..the movie shows a number of backdrops of a theatre resembling gaiety theatre in simla showing posters of a number of Chaplin movies….so it gives you an idea of the period the film is set in….every person is entitled to his/her opinion but he/she should be open enough to accept criticism for that….
I completely agree with SmokerJoe and crazygal..Aamir gave a very honest reply to a question he was asked..and that his opinion..he has whoe right..he was infact avoiding the topic in a way..the interviewer started getting specific..and Aamir gave an honest reply..I se nothing wrong in it..neways the more people are going to make a fuss about it worse it is for black..
BLACK is unnecessarily hyped film…what is there in it? what is the story of BLACK? if one recalls it, it is so cliched…i mean its not new…hellen keller must have lived more sensitive life…
Bhansali is a big Nautanki…and it shows on the screen too…Bachhan is asked to act as if he is a lunatic…emotional graph is flat…it starts at 10 and ends at 10…
why Mr. Bachhan calls Bhansali is genius because Bhansali must be giving him shot break down and must be giving him detailed information of every camera movement, pauses, fade outs , track in and dissolves…every shot means something…!…Bachhan khoosh…itana seriously kaun film banata hai…jo banate hai unki filme logon ko samazhe me nahi ati…to Bachhan bhai Bhansali pe khoosh…
Yes Bhansali knows the language of Films..but he is very crude in using it…!
Black was a reasonably good film. Of course, the first time I liked it because I didn’t really know what ‘Black’ was about (unlike these days where we get sneak peeks on most movies (at PFC..) before their release ;-)…so it was surprising and different.
Aamir Khan is an excellent actor, probably one of the few utterly honest and dedicated ’stars’ we have who has managed to keep himself away from unnecessary gossip and controversies. If he works hard to promote his films, its the right thing to do. If he voices his opinions about social issues, its his right as the citizen of this country.
Now, bringing ‘his’ views on ‘another film’ and dissecting it all over in so much detail doesn’t really make much sense. Probably Aamir’s views are flawed…who gives a damn? Doesn’t really seem worth wasting time on…please write something more useful.
Once a movie is released, it becomes public property, and anyone and everyone reserves the right speak about it - either for or against it. I don’t think anyone of us,(incl Mr Bachchan) reserves the right to question Aamir’s opinion on a film.
And he did not bring it up, the interviewer asked him a question and he simply replied.
Why Aamir started talking about Black? DO any body has any source where his comments were first published?
If any reporter has asked him what are his views on Black because TZP also deals with child then I think he has full right to voice his opinion.
And if he called a press conference and brought out the topic all by himself while talking about TZP then probably I will doubt his intentions.
Mr Kedar
Hope you dont want to say that every film in Bollywood today is made on different subjects and is new !! Black is certainly not a story-telling film, but something which Indian Cinema has never seen. Its simply fantastic in every aspect ( I speak from the point of view of a general audience )
Hahahaha I also want to laugh at your under estimation of the Legend Mr Amitabh Bachchan. Hahahahahaha - AB fooled by the nautanki-Bhansali ? Hahahahahahahaaha
If Amir Khan thought he was right abt Black, he did not need to write again to flatter AB. First he washed whole Black nd later coul not bear the heat nd went 2 steps back to clarify.
TZP can b good:d
i did not see anything wrong with that blog of his. perhaps i don’t give a hoot about that cos i personally did not like black.
anyway, if we look at the film promos on the tv, then you can clearly see that he is marketing the film as “Taare Zameen Par” rather than Aamir Khan’s Film, which is a good think, imo. There is no hype around the film - and sometimes that is good.
The Blue Umbrella should have been promoted like that. And UTV messed it up - big time.
Agree with Hoonhar Goonda
the fundamental argument of the plot..
Rani’s character wants education..the whole film is based on her tryst with education..
My question is “Why do we need education?” or still better “Do we need education to live?” the answer to the second IMO is NO,which brings me to the first question..
Education in our lives is not a necessity.You can live without education if you can acquire the basic skills required to live life.The problem I have with the film is that the girl Michelle never gest acquainted to those fundamental skills,so the whole point of her struggling with education seems futile.We as an audience never get to see her socialising or encountering a stranger nor do we get to see how she reacts when she is surrounded by a bunch of people.So,when in a scene when she is shown surrounded by fellow university students how does she know whats surrounding her?And doesnt she feel odd?If not why?Do we ever get to be in her shoes?Do we as an audience ever get to feel her pain?Do we get to explore her psyche?
How do we buy her managing to recognise the roll callers voice when she cant hear?Can she hear tiny air movements?Can she hear?
How does her behaving like a maniac on feeling snow be justified?How does she judge on her own..that the feeling is good or bad?We as people never judge on our own,we make our inferences based on what we see around us and when she has never been told what is good/bad ,exciting/boring how is her reaction justified?
Besides that I also have problems with the entire treatment of the subject.And the performance by Mr.Bachchan(over acting) is not what was demanded by the script.
Big B had clearly made a very harsh statement on Hey Ram when it was released , that the film was too lengthy for the story it had to say , clearly not understanding the numerous layers in the film and the surrealism in the film . This was at a time when Kamal Haasan was considered as the best actor in India and this could be termed as a highly insensitive comment ( probably emerging out of jealousy !! ). What insued was a war of words with Kamal Haasan . So he should be ready to take criticism for his over-hyped , over-acted lengthy Black .
@ satchit puranik,
You write [Sikandar ne porus se kee thi ladaai
@anupam.kr.singh [4],
The Miracle Worker is biographical visual depiction of life story of Hellen Keller. When you make a biopic, can you impose rules, regulations and socital behaviour and norms prevailing in modern times? or you have to keep things written in the book?
With this definition how would you go on seeing Olivier Twist etc?
This Mr Amir Khan has to think before he jumps in to an arena.:)
@spin (5),
Yes Spin, Amir’s stand is quite confusing and they way he raises issues dont match with image of his being very intelligent person/actor/filmmaker. Being filmmaker he is in position to see much more than ordinary audience.
He is behaving like health Minister’s issues against showing smoking on screen.
If we start imposing same definitions on films done by Aamir Khan in the past then he will have to issue apologies for most of his films.
Many may have reservations then with his portrayal of Mangal Pande the martyr revoltionist. How he can play with the image of a martyr by showing him in love with a prostitute?
Is iot recorded in history known to all? Why masses should go on beleiving some disputed history? How he can play with belief of people then?
How he can justify his character in first half of Ghulam then. How he as a character can beat a simple cricket player who does not wish to sell his honesty? That kind of behaviour with honest people is objectionable. That pushes honest people to believe that they have to bear hooliganism in life whenever they wish to take firm stand. Honest people should be shown treating well on screen so that all people gets inspiration:d
@turtle,
lets hope Aamir is sincerly propagating his true ideas about attitude towards kids and its not a gimmick simply to give extra coverage in media to his film:)
@Arijit (7)
yes whatever quality film Black posses, it does not motivate audience to do violence towards Kids.
Is Debraj Sahay the character of AB in film, shown opting harsh attitude towards child Michelle once she starts learning?
Yes there is a scene where Debraj becomes angry when grown up Michelle cant follow good typing speed. Do we go on objecting such mundane things present in films?
Hope Amir Khan does not harm the mdium through which he earns his bread and butter and all kind of name and fame.
Hope he is not Kalidas (before he got knowledge) who was cutting same branch of tree on which he was sitting:-?
@Rishi,
I am also confused in understanding the real meaning behind issues Aamir Khan is raising.
Its not right and justified to point this out but when he says, [I take great exception to this kind of behaviour towards children being glorified and propagated through a popular mass medium as the way to deal with children with or without difficulties. I, without any hesitation, strongly condemn this kind of cinema no matter who is involved with the film, and that includes me if I ever have in the past, present or future made such an error of judgement.], doubt pops up in mind, is he really qualified to talk about normal children also?
Will people be so blind that will not see personal lives of many stars, when they start raising flags of social issues? Have they been following same understanding and principles in their personal lives also?
@Abhishek (9),
we have to wait and see that those who are now supporting Aamir Khan and his present behaviour will be able to opt same stand when they will understand true message hidden behind his issues.
Violence against kids can present bad example before people that means Aamir Khan acepts that cinema affects people’s psyche in bad manner and once he accepts this ona public forum he will be opening a pandora’s box. Dont know how he will be goining on doing films after his stand. Will he play only characters of GOD henceforth?
Will he sue makers of “That Boys Story” and Robert De Nero who played such a violent step father?
Will he sue makers of The Little Princes? Will he sue Soul of Raj Kapoor becasue he made “Boot Polish” where violence against little children is shown?
Will Aamir Khan sue Charles Dickens to write Olivier Twist and David Lean and Roman Polanski who made a film on the book?:-?
@Viashal (10),
Hope so.
Hope Aamir makes his stand clear in this whole confusing episode. If its true then its sad to accept that such an intelligent person can commit such mistake:(
@Samrat (11),
ya thats the concern that being admirer of Aamir Khan, its hard to accept that he can behave in such a follish manner.
Black can have 1000 weaknesses but not those raised by Aamir Khan and its not “Momento and Memento” case. Its a simple film wherre audience cant/should not make mistake in viewing.:-?
@Alone (12),
As Amitabh Bachchan has said in his recent interview that Aamir had shown his reservation about using VO of Rani Mukherji during the premere also and he (AB) still could not understand Aamir’s objection. I also feel its useless objection. AB’s irritation is quite natural on such an objection in films and that too by filmmakers who all are taking 1000 liberties while making their own films. Why to attack others films then, when you are not sparing your films from banalities?:-?
@Badmash (13)
To raise globally relevant issues you dont need to drag down others works and more so because you yourself have done 75 similar mistakes in your film career.
Dont have time and zeal to attack Aamir or anybody on personal basis. Not concerned at all with that factor.
Hope discussion remains attached with the topic only.
@Udai,
I dont have to watch Black again just to attack Aamir. Have no personal problem or disliking towards any cinema person as you seem to have for SLB.
Anyway, its not under discussion whether Black is a good or average or a crap film. Black’s fight should be fought by its makers/writers etc. Please comment again when you understand the topic properly and please point out issues either issued by Aamir or raised in the article. That focus will help all.
@crazygal (15),
Question is not this that whether some reporter asked Aamir or Aamir himself said, question is what he said and if its true what he said then why he said. Because points he is raising are completely baseless. Points are foolish to some extent and they dont match with image of Aamir Khan, an intelligent filmmaker.
Kuch to wajah hogi, yun hi koi bewafa nahin hota:)
and we have to search that wajah, the Cause:-?
@Arnab,
ya we also hope that everything is done with good intention and yes surely TZP should do what other films could not do to kids. Waiting eagerly for the film.:)
@Smoker Joe,
There is a difference between your opinion and opinion of a filmmaker about other film. You have not made films and hence have not commited same mistakes for which you are dragging down other’s film.
If a filmmaker is criticising others films and himself making far worse film then it was foolish on his part to criticise other.
Such follishness has not been part of Aamir Khan in the past and hence his present behaviour is embararrasing.
@Amit (19),
May be admiration towards Aamir is responsible in getting difficulties to accept the fact Aamir can also think bit foolishly.:(
Being harsh towards kids ain’t the issue Aamir’s raising here. Its the philanthrophic touch that is used to counterbalance that action is what he says is objectionable.
There is a scene in “Fanny and Alexander” where the bishop spanks Alexander for lying. But, Bergman doesnt project it as the right way to deal with a kid. He shows a convent truth, but he shows that its wrong and it does affect the psyche and attitude of kids as they grow up and instills in them a feeling of bitterness instead of remorse.
Now take Black into perspective. A mother is shown to allow her disabled child to be put under an alcoholic’s solitary supervision. she even begs her husband to let her do so and further goes ahead on her own steam and does it.
The first sequence in FAA shows ill-treatment of a child, but shows it as something negative. The second action is a mere sequence that is used to explain Debraj Sahai’s manaic outwards and further support it as the act of an “eccentric genius”..
@Kedar(20) Dude, discussion is not at all about what you are attending.
Have read your name somewhere. Are not you regular visitor on Mr Shekhar kapur’s website and makes lot of comments there?
If yes then its sad to see your attitude here where you are commenting totally in irrelevant manner.:(
@Saurabh (21) yes sir will try to write more meaningful next time. you are right, na lena ek na dena do. Let Aamir says what he wish to say and why we should bother what he is saying ( good or bad). we should neglect Aamir. This you want?:-?
@Divya(22) True once a film is released then people are free to express their opinions and once people express their opinion about a general topic covering lives of millions then people also have right to express their views on those views. Is not it?:-?
@Vivek(23), In either of the case, it does not reduce the importance and impact of “What he is saying”. How he said is of secondary importance here and what he said has primary importance. Hence all this discussion. “How” is his prerogative and special situation but “what” is affecting many many people hence people have to react.
@kcp (24),
I also hope, Mr Kedar follows decency while commenting on one. as prasing one does not demand criticising other and that too without any basis.:)
@Krish (25)
Aamir’s clarification about Mr Bachchan and bringing Mr Dilip Kumar also in his writing on his blog, also suggests that he could not keep his views clearly in first attempt. When he was not clear what he wished to say and which aspects of film he was criticising then it brings more sadness:(
RK saahib.. aapke individual reply to all seems aapke paas negativity ke liye bahut time hai..
i dont have any filmi career.. first of all.. I am the aam janta..
and i didnt have time to elaborate on my post earlier.. and when i logged in again lot of people had already made similar comments.. and i decided not divulge on your post again..
and i dont understand.. what is your fuss about even after reading so many logical explanations you are still living in denial.. and if everybody is entitled to their views as you are.. so is aamir..
but like one other post said aamir was asked about his views about the movie and he said what he felt.. dont look for bad intention behind everyone
@HG,
well as said to many others in above mentioned comments, its not discussion about whether Black is good or a bad film.
—
Agree with rest of your comments. Surely TBU should have been advertised properly.
@Zoomabsh,
sorry you are not right person to talk about Black as you have seen only 1 hour of the film.
Whats difference between film based in present era and gone by era, is mentioned in some of the above mentioned comment. Think over it and if have any point we can discuss.
Why do you think film stars are more busy than other people in other profession?
How NS comes in this discussion?:-?
@Abhinav (29),
Hope your objections towards treatment of Black are satisfied by someone who understands your objections and can see flaws in them:)
Regarding Over acting point I am though curious.
What is this Over acting? How people define it?
Could you please try to give some examples, if you get any time.
Thanks:)
@Radha (30),
Dont know if AB said something like that. I believe you that he had said then its very nice observation. Hey Ram was a good film but it certainly needed short length. many unneceessary things were there in the film which took away the real impact of the film. Anyway, either you should either write an article on Hey Ram where we can discuss about that film or let someone write about that film. Loved that film. Though dont get your point that how saiyng Hey Ram was bit lengthy, can come under harsh comment?
As asked from Abhinav,
I am curious to know what is over hyped/ over acting thing?
Please make me understand by examples.
How you find
Pran in Jis Desh mein Ganga Behati hai?
Amjad Khan in Sholay?
Anupam Kher in Karma?
Om Puri in Narsimha?
Brad Pitt in 12 Monkeys?
Jack Nicholson in as good as it gets?
Irfan Khan in Haasil? etc
TZP will definitely take the flag forward as you say and would again establish Amir as a good human being as well besides being a good actor. Isn’t this all that matters.
@Badmash Saab (55)
as you yourself have written
” as if you don
@Gajendra Ji,
yes great expectations are from TZP.
@Sreehari (47),
Very nice examples from films.
Lets come towards real life.
Parents know Divorce affect the psyche of the children and they never can be normal towards that separation of their parents and they have to bear that oddity of life all through their life but still so called Intelligent people go on taking divroce to marry other person even then their children are small and though one can have good relation with children but can one give same parenthood to these kids by taking divorce which s/he could have given by remaining in marriage?
Is not it general scenario all over the world. Is not it condemened by scriptures?
Why adults take resort of ill arguments that its better to go for separation than to try to settle clashes for the sake of kids?
Its personal lust, weakness of adults that they see big support in this liberty and hence go on affecting psyche of children. Its happening daily and we are talking about slapping a kid which it cant recall after 2 days?:-?
RK Dear,
Yes, those are negativities. But, those ought to be protrayed so as to bring about a sense of negativity. Divorcing your partner or slapping your child should not be protrayed as an act of nascent heroism. In black, Debraj Sahai’s eccentric behaviour and alcoholism were all protrayed with a sense of sly heroism or ingenuity and the director by virtue of other characters in the movie seemed to find a way out to prove that his mad eccentric genius behaviour was rewarded.
@Sreehari,
Watching is subjective and differ from audience to audience.
I watched in same film that Michelle’s father has reservations about Debraj and hence asks him to leave the house next morning. Debraj not ready to accept defeat, convinces Michelle’s mother and she becomes ready to ignore her husband’s reservations for the sake of her daughter. I saw Debraj saying to Michelle’s mother that he will not touch alcohol for all these days. I did not see Debraj taking away the small Michelle away from their main home as was shown in TMW. Debraj is in same building albeit in other room of the same house and there is no restriction on Michelle’s mother or other servant to have an eye over the activities going inside the room from the outside. A lady servant also objects that she did not like violent attitude of Debraj but Michelle’s mother is having eyes over development and she says,” Our Michelle ate first time on her own by forks and spoon”.
It depends whatever we wish to see we can see in any film but we have to see what we are seeing, if we are seeing more than shown?
I did not see anywhere praising Debraj’s eccentric behaviour. One remembers the results in the end as happen in real life also.
I have not read biography or autobiography of Hellen Keller and hence unable to comment whether slapping scene is present in the book or not and if TMW has shown similar scene then I assume its present in the book also and if book contains this scene then how you would shoot a film without this scene? Yes you can choose to ignore this scene and a film can be made without this scene also.
Black cant be first example when Eccentricity has been shown with heroism. Though I dont recall his eccentric behaviour was praised by other character.
Divorce point is for real life. Hope discussion does not go there but if anyhow it goes then we will see, who is eligible to talk about children’s issue in general:-?
Ah how conveniently you ignore the point.. when you title your post
@Badmash, Sir
I can give everything a break but your wounded ego wont have peace from that break;).
Why you are worried about anything after you know you cant come on same level of discussion. our refrence points are different. take it that way and wait for few days how events take place. Why to make a hurry.
Enjoy the Show.
Aamir is too big a person to be made as scape goat. Love him and like him and more over 100% vegetarian. so your assumptions are false and baseless.
I remind and request again you to use your energies in works where you get right feelings than to post comment here. Good luck Sir:d
@Badmash Sir,
Sorry forgot to address your issue with Title -
“Aamir Khan : : Rang De Black to bring Taare on Zameen ! ”
I was not knowing people like you will get their own interpretation only with this title.
Night is Black and hence urge to paint Black so that stars on earth can be watched. I dont know if you can see stars in daylight when sun is shining.
If that title can be interpreted in that manner as you have imagined than its your imagination and not my trial. Ok Sir ji
As an actor trained in staninislavsky these are my two cents…
I did find the performances over the top BUT i do beleive that certain scripts demand over the top performances….
but for a movie like black i feel you need beleivable emotion…or else all emotion falls flat..
thats the mistakes soaps make,the emotion is too unbeleivable to make me feel
someone here had mentioned brad pitt in the twelve monkeys …now thats a role that requires an over the top performance…
well lets ignore the word over the top for a second…
basically black didnt touch me…and indian actors using english in movies kills any scene…
@Vivek,
Thanks for nice comment.
If I may ask, when English is used by so many countries then what is the exact reservation against Indian actors using English in any movie?
Does it mean they dont know how to speak properly and does this argument goes on to be valid for people using english in real life also? Can we extrapolate backwards to the time of Nehru, Gandhi and Patel and Bose and Tagore? Do you say they did not speak english very well and in same manners as English can speak?
and can this argument goes further for writers also writing in english though they are not british or australian or american by birth?
You rightly said about Brad Pitt and now if you can say something about Jack Nicholson in as good as it gets? If you have seen it.
Thanks again:)
@ Vivek ! As far as I guess, u are the only actor in the world trained in Staninislavsky ! Who is he ? Cheers !
^:)^
P(L)ayback, you also know he meant
Constantin Stanislavski and his method acting trend.
Are you so concerned about correct spelling of russian name
@RK
I am CONCERNED about correct information. About truth. About pretence.
P(L)ayback,
like your concern about correct information and like more concern about truth.
:):)>-
Though curious to know with which art you identified that Vivek pretended?
If you may share this secret:)
@ RK
GuruDakshina Samajhtey hai ?
Aaap ka Guru NAAM uchharan mey hi khot hai to Guru PREM kya raha ? Dakshina to chodiye ! Guru ki asliyat guru ki shradhha hai ! Guru aur CHELA ek inseparable duality hai ! Chela ka jhut Guru ka insult hai !
@P(L)ayback,
Samajh gaya Guru and Gurudakshina ki mahatta. But as Vivek had shown reservation about Indian actor using English and as Stanislavski was Russian and may be Vivek is taught in Russian, le me wait if Vivek comes back to explain.
Guru Shishya parampara par achche comment ke liye hardik dhanyavad.
@RK
Aap aur aap ki tehzeeb kaabiley taareef hai ! Humey Vivek sey koi dushmani nahi ! Unkey agyan sey hai ! Did u know your ability to pick up a new language is the surest parameter of the extent of your intelligence ?
@P(L)AYBACK,
did not know this relation between intelligence and pick up ability to learn a new langauge.
But in general this may support the hypothesis that female species is more intelligent than male because lot of studies say that females are better in learning new language and especially learning spoken language:d.
Hardly we find a stammering girl child but boys are often found dragging words.
Is it really true what you said? Its frightening
Dont know about girls but the universal is true ! BTW stammering isnt a learning disorder !
oh ! feel like apologising to Vivek ! Staninislavsky sounds like stamering !
ooops ! “stammering” !*
Certainly Stammering is not learning disorder but disorder in speaking ability. Its also said whose minds work faster than speaking ability, someof them also suffer from this disorder because they cant convert their thoughts in to the words as fast as their mind is thinking them.
anyway seems Vivek will return on PFC someother time someother day and will reveal mystery behind his statement.
@ 69 RK -
I don’t know what Vivek was getting at but I’ll hazard a guess and add that I find that when Indian actors speak in English in the movies, it does kill the scene. With the exception of English, August - most other movies do a bad job. Here may be why -
- The writing is usually bad. Dialogues sound stilted, clunky, and forced. When you watch eglish language theater in India, there is a very affected stagy way of speaking, which these actors bring to the movies. It has no place in the movies.
- some people over-compensate and write the way we speak english in every day life, and that too is bad, because it sounds real but real conversations are painful to hear. Movie dialogue needs to be efficient in carrying plot forward, revealing character and hopefully sound breezy and like banter.
- a third problem is that the diction is not good a lot of times. Also, may be because we are used to hearing english dialogues in the movies in american or british english (and accent), it may seem a little jarring.
The above problems will and can manifest themselves in hindi or regional languages as well, but people have far more practice writing and speaking in them.
If I listened to the average American talk on the street, and used that as movie dialogue, it will be terrible as well. The conversation meanders, there are non-sequiturs, ugly pauses and aaahs and people will die from the word “like”
All these problems can be overcome with good writing, and good delivery and I see no reason why we can’t have great english dialogue in our movies. soon.
@Dabba,
Thanks for detailed comment showering insight. Will respond you later. Please bear with my absence for a while.
Thanks:)
Examples of bad Indian English films hailed as great intellectual art -
1) Mr & Mrs Iyer
2) 15 Park Avenue
3) Split Wide Open
4) BLACK
5) BOOM
Some good exceptions to that rule -
1) Hyderabad Blues( You can argue about it but …)
2) BOMBAY BOYS
3) English August
Some such examples in Hollywood.
1) PASSAGE TO INDIA( David Lean’s insufferable “masterpiece”) Watch how he makes a great actor like VICTOR into a caricature.
I would have a bigger list if I had not stopped watching anything starring Rahul Bose in it. Though I must admit I quite enjoyed his Directorial Film - EVERYBODY SAYS I’m FINE.
cheers
somehow rahul bose and his pretensious ass came to be the posterboy of indie and hinglish films. insufferable. I liked the concept/story behind everybody says i’m fine, but man did he ham it up with his role! and that engineer guy! such stilted delivery.
haven’t seen passage to india. i am very wary of hollywood when they make a movie about or in india.
I agree with you Dabba. The execution was faulty. But since Rahul takes himself seriously so much, I expected the acting to be bad anyways. I felt I was watching a play during that film. The acting & sets didn’t help either.
Dabba you gotta watch PASSAGE to India.
Have you seen Mighella’s last film? ENTERING & BREAKING?
Is English Patient your favourite film too?
http://hypem.com/popular
Indian films in English - do not work! It will never work! All those films are a bit snotty.
Being Cyrus could have been a brilliant film if they had gone with a balanced language. For example, Hazaron Khwaisien Aisi - language of the film is primarily English, but you still have various Indian dialects in the film.
Would Saurabh Shukla beating Shiney Ahuja in the middle of the khet worked if Saurabh had dialogues (swear words) in English?! No! It would have turned out as a joke.
You cannot have a keesan in dhoti doing kheti and speaking Queen’s English!
@ Mainak -
about English Patient… I attempted watching that movie twice, and fell asleep both times. Haven’t seen breaking & entering. i met rahul bose at a party a few years ago this was a coupla months after Everybody. Some people take themselves too seriously. and not in a good way. i think i could see the stick hanging out of his arse.
Actually Nagesh ’s Hyderabad Blues was in English as was Bombay Boys, and both did quite well in India. HB running for 31 weeks. So I think if the story is urban, it can run (English films in India).
@Dabba (83),
I gather (further) from your comment -
In the 40s, 50s and 60s, People in real life did not speak in that impressive Hindi or Urdu languages as they were used in the films and hence that special emphasis on the language made films better in terms of language what we see in daily life. People like Pradeep Kumar who could not speak proper Hindi in real life because he was a bengali used to speak a fantastic Urdu on screen because on sets he was given fantastic dialogues and training to speak them properly.
Same happen to many actors coming from Non Hindi/Urdu background. It is mentioned on PFC in recent days (cant recall exactly where) that Guru Dutt spoke in fine language in the role of a taxi driver because they dont speak such fine Hindi/Urdu but then perhaps priorities, motives and thinking of those days filmmakers/writers were different and Hero was to be good in characterstics. Because in same film Johny Walker and some other character actors dont speak in fine language rather Johny Walker was always given language which could enhance his kind of performance.
Now a days writers and some filmmakers are giving stress on using langauge which we hear in daily life while walking on roads. Good or bad this is their insistance. May be this is due to the pressure to make a place in todays film industry. whatever talent one carries, s/he wants definitions should be reconstructed according to that talent because then s/he can come in top 1-5 people in that profession.
Surely Theatre impact is there in the dialogue delivery of many actors and its strange but true that while speaking in real life many speaks Eneglish in different manner but once before the camera they start speaking in theatre kind of ways. Directors dont object and perhaps dont wish to do hard work on diction of actors.
Ultimately its call of writers and directors to provide right kind of dialogues and diction to actors.
—–
You might have seen Merchant Ivory’s films based on India. Any special comment on those films ?
because major part (often 90%) of those films are in English.
@Mainak (85)
Nothing to offend you but you have personal disliking for Aparna Sen, Rahul Bose so please provide examples of films belonging to other people as here you could be biased even if you did not mean to be biased.
Though I am curious what logic makes HB and BB better in english than Black and Boom?
You mean English is spoken in better manner in these films (HB and BB) or you mean that English is used in effective manner in these films?
How HB is different than many other Indo American films like Flavour, where is the party etc ?
Talking about English August, I assume you might have read the book before you saw the film and you mention the film in your list of good films where English is used in better ways.
So you mean to say that Rahul Bose , which according to you is mis fit in rest of other films has spoken well in this film? and film uses english as given in the book? or both book and film dont have good english?
Same question w.r.to Every Body says I am Fine- same Rahul Bose is fine there for you in terms of English dialogues? Does he opt different way of speaking here than what he opted in Mr and Mrs Aiyer and other films you disliked?
I mean to ask what is this special thing which is effective in EA and ESIAFine and absent in other films.
sorry so many questions but scenario based on your comment is bit confusing.
Vivek
I mentioned both your films in my list of good indian films in english.
RK
Good question. I need to watch all of merchant Ivory films about India.
Dabba
RK
Its 4 in the morning. I will give a detailed resply to your very good questions when I wake up tommorow.
@HG (88),
Is not it true that good films often keep different and suitable dialects for different characters. Since old Sanskrit plays this has been maintained where creamy layer of society speaks in different language then comedian or ordinary people.
But at same time there pops up a question-
because you know India so can have this impression that a Dhoti clad kissan should not speak in good english or situations like (example of HKA you gave)-
Now what if you dont know background of a country and when it makes a film in English then what impression will you take from its characters?
Or when you see a film dubbed in english and where every character is speaking in english? Will you have objection that a SHO based in rural area of UP Bihar etc is speaking in English? Or this reservation is valid only on films whose background is known to you?
@Vivek,
HB ran for 31 weeks ? WEhere in Hyderabad or you are saying it was running in theatres at many places for that long duration?:-?
@udai
just wanna say buddy u need help… you are tooooo frustrated in life i feel…8-|
@Mainak,
Have a nice sleep. you seem to have very unorganised night or may be planned night so that going to sleep at this hour. Anyway have a sound sleep
RK,
Man how did you come up with this header
Thanks RK
I usually sleep around this time every night. Sleep is a waste of time.
Are you in Europe somwhere. Seems like its morning wherever you are.
@Udai(99)
Immature suggests you what is mature and everything has to be existed on earth, black and white so that people like you can have knowledge what is what.
I can spare you by suggesting dont read but who comes in your “US”.
Are you representing a group or party or a fan club etc?
You are very angry and I should title my reply to you
“Reply to Redlisted Udai”
Have a cup of~o)
@Mainak, (100)
So ja mere bhai. when you get ready after 4 hours (assuming 3 hours sleep and 1 hour other things to get ready, you wont waste time in eating and will be atleast typing with one hand ):)
Sleep is a waste of time. Man you are going to do with this capacity of yours to be healthy even after sleeping daily for very few hours.
Forgot the sanskrit word for that who has won over sleep. That suits you:)
@ RK -
i have watched a few Ivory films. For the most part i don’t watch period dramas, and although i wanted to like their films, i was always so bored by them. beautifully photographed though.
English August, the book was very good, and the movie - maybe, because it was among the first about an urban english speaking guy, and his utter alienation in his own country… i have not watched that movie in over 10 years, and alot of my tastes and opinions have changed, so don’t know if it will still hold up.
Rahul Bose is like Keanu Reeves. they are both such terrible actors that if they are ever in a good movie, it is actually a miracle.
RK
If you know how to conquer sleep, please let me know. I found out about SLEEP DIET in february where you take power naps for 15 minutes every 2 hours. My gf refuses to support me in my battle against sleep.
RK(92)
Now about RAHUL BOSE.
Dabba nailed it when he said he is our Keanu Reeves. Rahul Bose is wood. He is the poster boy of ignorant or pseudo people. Just like for some people Black is a masterpiece. ofcourse it is, if you haven’t seen better. Just because he speaks english on screen & works on every Indie film that is in English, everyone is crazy about him.
I have nothing against Aparna Sen. I think she is a very talented artist. She has made some great films like
Paromitar Ek Din, PICNIC, 36 Chowringhee Lane.
And she has acted with the best.
Its just that I think this whole English language film is not working out for her. She should go back to making bengali film. Also her activist side has taken charge over her artist side. Which is great. If her films change even one person for the better I’m all for that.
BLOOD DIAMOND is the best example of such a film in recent times. Very bad film but since it was also very simplified for the masses, more people watched it & came to know about how bloody diamonds are. I know a lot of people who are not cine fanatics, who thought the movie was very touching & enlightning. They swore to never buy Diamonds again. In cases like these, I say more power to bad simplified films with stars in it which is based on some cause. That film had more impact than a brilliantly made documentary on the same subject would have had.
I’m digressing.
To come back to Rahul Bose. There is one film where I loved him. JHANKAR BEATS. He was funny & smooth in it. Everyone spoke the right mix of hindi & english in that film. So its not impossible to make him act. Directors have managed to to pick up people from the streets & made them act.
Hyderabad Blues & English August have to be held to a different standard. Hell there was no standard. They were the two pioneer films which pushed open a whole new urban market. Bombay Boys just banged the door really hard after them.
Hyderabad Blues from what I remember has 3 languages. And people speak what they speak in the real world. So it worked for everyone.
English August was such a subject that the youth connected with the protaganist completely. Augastya Sen was among one of us. The 1st such character on screen in India for my generation. Plus the book had its hard-core fans too. And the experience of watching a Indian guy speaking in english about Pink Floyd & his alienation was a very exciting experience.But I don’t remember anything from the movie now except few shots here & there.
I thought FLAVOR was a pretty decent effort. It was the best among all those Desi Films that got made in that boom. It had a great soundtrack, which I listen to even now.
@ Mainak -
Blood Diamond is a good illustration of the impact of popular film vs activism, and one that I was trying to make with qwerty on the other thread, but failed to. do u guys remember the non-stop stroking on telly at the time chameli came out, abt how rahul and kareena are such “different genres” of actors?
@Dabba (103)
Since the time of “Little Budha” Keenu Reeves has learnt art of doing miracles. An effect of being in touch with spirituality
@Mainak(104)
No sorry, I dont know the secret how to conquer the sleep. Every day I love to sleep for 8 hours out of 24 Hours.
Its mentioned that Arjuna had got command over sleep hence he had got a special name, unable to recall this Sanskrit name since yesterday.
Gandhi, though, had also done some experiements with sleep and had mastered art of Yog Nidra, so whenever he needed he worked continously and rested for 10-15 minutes in between and when he thought he had no work of immediate urgence then he used to have sleep. so he also conquered sleep in some manner.
Tagore disliked sleeping in day time and prefered to work after lunch also and hence he also won over sleep atleast in day time.
and then we read similar accounts of Mao Tse- Tung of China also worked continuously for several days without sleeping to write his book.
Sleep necessity differs from person to person so perhaps you may manage with a little sleep.
But living totally without sleep can be harmful. Though in Hathyog people practise this also, but when one can enjoy life without going in to extremities then why to go that way?:-?
@Mainak (105),
I dont understand logic behind the generalization of this statement that “Something is masterpiece if you have not seen better”.
This is like saying all those chemists who provided their contribution in making periodic table were not intelligent and only Dmitri Ivanovich Mendeleev was the only Master genius who summarised the final format.
Not saying Black is a master piece but if a film is a master piece then its existence as master piece is independent and other master pieces dont affect its position.
and films can be good or ok without being in the cue to become masterpieces.
–
Re: Rahul Bose, I am not sure some people like him because he speaks english in the films though it can have some importance that he works in some films made in different format than regular hindi cinema or regional cinema. May be he is not Mendeleev but to negate his contribution is also not a healthy approach. He and his contribution will also be assessed only after some years then we would be able to say safely that whether he really did something or it was a false bubble or a mirage.
When You say you loved Jhankar Beats but hated his other films then doubt raises its head inside my mind because he gives almost simllar kind of performance in the films he does so he maintains a level and that same level is there in both Mr and Mrs Aiyar and Jhankar Beats. He is not good in one and bad in one. He is same, whatever level that is.
Though you can analyse him in Takshak because there he tries a different kind of role. There you can say something about him. and then you have to see if he is different under different directors or not.
When he is clear about what he cant do then in some 15 films which he has done so far he might have done something. Or it was a useless journey for him as an actor in your eyes?:-?
@Mainak,
Re Blood Diamond, Are you in conflict whether Departed was more bad or Blood Diamond? and bad in comparison to other films of directors?
@Mainak(106),
you say-
HB worked for everyone. It was first ever film of Nagesh and he acted also. Now leave its success then when it was released. It had great concept, performances, direction etc or anyother technical thing? Or because we still have to see it as first attempt of director.
Coming back to your own saying. People had seen far better films than HB but still people liked it.
So where we reach in terms of clear understanding?:-?
Sorry for replying late..
what I meant was that english when used in our Indian movies just sounds horrible…
Saif in being cyrus,Amitabh in black,rahul bose at times…