Aamir Review: Counterfeit Cinema
Rajkumar Gupta: “Kaun kehta hain ki aadmi apni kismat khud likhta hain?”
thani: “Kismat agar khud likh sakte, to usey kismat kyon kehte!”
Anurag Kashyap is India’s most provocative filmmaker. With his filmmaking, he creates avenues for scores of cinephiles to dream their cinematic dreams, and when that’s not satisfactorily accomplished he angers them enough to want to better his offending efforts. That is, when the said cinephile does not resort to the shortest possible route to his directorial debut – namely the remake.
It is to Rajkumar Gupta’s credit, and to the film’s superior craftmanship, that i refer to his debut feature Aamir as cinema. Nevertheless, a COUNTERFEIT one, if you know what i mean. The password is Cavite. I might as well review Cavite, and nobody would recognize the difference. To be fair to the nobody, in as many words, Aamir is a copy of Cavite [pronounced 'ka-vi-th-ey].
Of course, one could attempt to girdle-up BALLS to say, that the film you’re remaking is infinitely topical to the culture and society that you’re setting-it in, than the original source you’ve borrowed from. But you don’t say it. What you do say, in its stead, is that it is indeed a film ‘written and directed’ by Rajkumar Gupta.
Actually, it need not be as traumatizing to be remaking a film that you thought makes good-enough fodder for your first feature. But the fuck-up in India is, owing to it’s overbearing mediocrity, remaking a film, is a terminal disease, as worse as any that plagues our country. Because remakes have successfully rendered Indian filmmaking spineless, un-audacious, & impotent.
I want to watch a chase in a contemporary Indian film that doesn’t, with the exception of Black Friday, employ OST’s from either The Untouchables, Requiem for a Dream, or Kill Bill. Also, I do intend to invite a friend, Raja Sen, to subject him to a looped playing of the Summer, Winter & Hope Overture tracks from a Clint Mansell composed OST for Darren Aronovsky’s Requiem for a Dream, for saying what he has about the Aamir Theme track that’s resorted to to bail the makers out of the quagmire they ventured in remaking an indie-spirited film into a film that refuses to bother with the very reason the original film chose the protagonist as the victim.
In Cavite, a 2005 Philippines film written & directed by the film’s lead actor (Ian Gamazon) and it’s DOP (Neill Dela Llana), the protagonist Adam is terrorized into carrying-out a terror attack for a very specific reason. The makers of Aamir, probably to obfuscate the concentration of the counterfeiting, unwisely leave-out the mechanics that went into the choice-making of a victim. Watching Aamir one would wonder as to why Rajeev Khandelwal’s Aamir Ali was randomly chosen when any of the mastermind’s cronies (who’re located ubiquitously close to Aamir’s constant re-location) could’ve carried-out, much more skillfully & efficiently, their desired outcome.
Rajeev Khandelwal’s feature debut, as the desperate Aamir Ali, deserves all the praise he’s receiving. It’s a pleasure, and a filmmaker’s dream I’d imagine, to work with an actor who elicits the amount of honesty that Rajeev does. It’s a debut that dwarfs the other 5;
Rajkumar Gupta as Director,
Alphonse Roy as DOP,
Anurag Kashyap as Creative Producer,
Amit Trivedi as Music & Background Composer,
and
UTV’s indie wing UTV SPOTBOY as Producer.
It is not in the execution (that’s commendably impeccable) but in the choice of having to bear an un-repayable debt, in the Indian context, owed to Cavite that the latter’s (latter 5) debuts are a-tainted.
One small (thani) review seldom dents the vast multitude of raves that are pouring-in. I wouldn’t be surprised if Aamir’s post-opening-weekend-publicity screams a Black Fridayed tag line, from one of the erstwhile non-believers. For a film to be Black Fridayed is to have it’s title successfully changed [Black Friday – Do Yourself a Favour (Taran Adarsh)]. Witnessing Post-Bheja Fry developments, remakes don’t seem to hurt any of the remakers. Unfortunately, & unfairly, it’s the audience that gets dumbed-down into celebrating the next half-decent original fare that any bloke delivers, further lowering our cinematic aspirations.
Tags: aamir, Review, thani
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
After reading the review of Aamir by Rajeev Masand, my immediate reaction was “apna pappu pass ho gaya”. Apna Rajkumar pappu pass ho gaya aur woh bhi distinction mein.
http://passionforcinema.com/aamir-is-not-a-copy-of-cavite/
liking democratic nature of pfc but m confused also
producer writs aamir is not copy of cavite…
crtic writes here aamir is copy…
ve nt seen cavite… it doesnt matter 2 me if aamir is copy of cavite or not if aamir is gud film but 4 knowing truth, whats the reality?
is it copy or not?
Just saw the film. Did not likre it. Agree with thani.
hmmm, who do we believe now?
the makers who had admitted to similarities and who went and got the right just in case, or the audience who have been rendered incumbent by scores of blatant copies that the moment they see somthing familiar they say ‘counterfeit’
Copy or not! It is a good flim. Thani well jodha akbar is not a copy of any film – but does it have a 5 sec charisma in 4 hr film as aamir has!
Critics gosh they always forget to praise thing which is GOOD!
Any way its your opinion and sorry to say its a dumb opinion! – The fact is this movie does justify everything what a movie should and that shows in the way it is compelling people to watch it!
I wish you mr Thani could bring a decent script your self which is not a copy material and make a movie lol!
Critics what a waste to society -!
I was never in any doubt about the similarities…but I was of the opinion that it was simply a coincidence..however this review makes me think otherwise!!
@thani.. well this really puts me in spin.. but yeah, but if what you say holds.. yeah Bheja Fry is the password.. but as for the randomness in chosing aamir.. i liked it in a ‘it could happen to you’ paranoia.. and yeah, something i didn’t mention in my review.. the background score.. the violin gets a lil too overbearing for me.. copied or not.. i liked my thrillers soundscaped like Jack Nietzche did ‘french connection’
1) Did’nt the producers show the movie to Cavite’s makers and get an NOC?
2) If the producers do not have an objection why do certain people still have a problem?
3) Is it to do with the fact that we look at traces of plagarism in every Hindi film even if there is any?
4) Is’nt there a differance between plagarism and inspiration? Is getting inspired a crime in the minds of self styled critics?
some fun man, thani, in this unexciting time for cinema. keep it going. :-)
Hi Dhananjay and others,
There is absolutely no problem in adapting international cinema to suit local tastes, this in fact gives the audience more and more exposure to good cinema. However, the point Thani is making is one of admission to the fact that it is inspired from Cavite. Anurag, Rajkumar Gupta and even UTVs Vikas Bahl doesn’t admit to this fact. Vikas says that he even bought the adaptation rights from Cavite after viewing the striking resemblance. What a coincidence?
Revisited Anurag’s post on Aamir and Cavite. If he say so, one should take his word. Anurag being as outspoken as he is will not say anything he is not sure of. He knows he will be skewered for the slightest slip by the media and the filmwallahs. Also when you have written and made so many orignal films, why will you filch one idea and get tainted forever?
Hmmm… the parallels between the two films are indeed compelling, …however I shall rerain from that topic as of now.
The whole premise of the film seemed baseless to me.
WHY IS AAMIR SINGLED OUT TO PLANT A BOMB WHEN PRESUMABLY THERE WOULD BE THOUSDANDS OF MOTIVATED MUJAHEEDINS READY TO TAKE ON THIS TASK WITHOUT ALL THE FUSS ?
This is clearly the “cinema of convenience”. Style for style’s sake. Inundated with “clever” visual metaphors and motifs. Staged for the “duh-uh” gallery who cant tell the difference between a car-chase sequence and a film with integrity. To top it all, it verges ( or is it pivots ) on the minority issue without being bold enough to take the issue head on.
From a textbook point of view, it doesnt establish the protagonist, introduces and sustains the primary conflict from the very onset…and if you look closely,…has no character development !
Look at a Tom & Jerry cartoon for striking parallels !
Lastly,…did anybody notice the parallels to No Smoking ? The dark depths of the Dharavi hell hole equates to the dark depths of the Bhindi Bazaar lanes. The omniscient Baba Bangali controlling John Abrahams world equates to our “phone-a-fiend” controlling Rajeev’s world !
oops ! forgot to mention,….great counter-quote Thani !
This is high-class whining ,laced with high decibel words nothing else ,the makers of Aamir have got an NOC from the creators of Cavite and that should be the end of the story ,perhaps the author lives in a world where the concepts of licensing and franchise and Non-Disclosure Agreements do not exist.
Can’t help it. Loved Aamir by the way ,it’s no Pother Pachali but a good movie for sure.
double oops !!! typo @ 14 : “refrain” instead of rerain.
And while I am back on, …lets talk a bit more about Aamir,…shall we ?
1) If the sole objective is putting a bomb on a bus, why do you need a doctor returning from London to do it unwillingly on the very day of his arrival ? Why not utilise the services of one of the creepy multitude which seemingly infests the city playing petty games as per orders with a clueless person ? Sure does away with the trouble of taking his entire family hostage and paying sizable mobile bills.
2) And even if we are to imagine that the boss on the phone actually had a dream / vision of the specific person who must carry out this task ( wink wink )and therefore planned everything to coincide with his date of arrival,… why play this long drawn out Tom & Jerry ? Just hand him the box with the bomb as soon as he arrives and tell him to plant it straight away ! …He has to,…you have his entire family hostage !!!
So whats really happening here ? The screenplay is evidently hollow and very flawed…These are not my opinions, but cold hard questions backed by logic. Any answers,…anybody ?
Playback: The way I saw it, it was the director’s way of showing the schism that exists within the community. The contrast between the educated, secular-minded and thinking Muslims on one end and their poor, uneducated, easily influenced brethren on the other. The “Tom & Jerry” aspect was a device to highlight the contrast. The bomb was so besides the point! Again, that’s my interpretation.
the best thing u have ever written onto pfc thani ..imho..
yes the film is gripping ..agreed …but there are several problems for me ..the ending being one…the reason why he is chosen being one ..the clever manner in which the producers says thanks to andre and neil being another…
yes there are merits in the film ..and there are demerits too..shot brilliently..there are black friday scenes galore ….and dark humor is found ..
but …i will watch cavite and resist myself on commenting on aamir …
brilliant bold article thani !!!!
Well, I’m just back from a screening of Aamir.. and i simply LOVED the movie and was thrilled by the way it was made.. its a very honest film.. and esp Rajeev Khandelwal .. He is is SIMPLY SUPERB … absolutely “in” character.. see the scene where he goes into that toilet(expressions) and then when he pewks outside .. nd well so many more .. i think i wont miss a khandelwal starrer ever again!!
2ndly.. SOUND! WOW! ever heard such background sound and sfx here before? i havent…! the music also had a “rahman” touch to it… thrilling and very apt sfx wich had me alert at all times!
i wudve liked a better justification as to why aamir was chosen for this job.. like maybe a nice 2-3 minute dialogue by the bald guy preaching his faith and cursing people of islam who dont do enuf for it(this was all there but in parts.. a small condensed form wudve been stronger i guess)…
Aditya, it was NOT the “directors way” of showing the schism existing within a community ( infact he skirted the core issue ). To anybody conversant with the fundamentals of screen-writing it is evident that this issue was only used to facilitate setting and motive. The “Tom & Jerry” aspect was NOT a device,…it was pretty much the entire movie ! And pray what “contrast” did it highlight ???
Playback: I am not conversant with the “fundamentals of screenwriting”, so I can’t talk about it. But as an audience, these questions didn’t bother me. Perhaps the fact that I’m ill-equipped to view this film from a “text-book point of view”, made me like it whereas you clearly didn’t. Fair enough…
guys, Get over this Anurag fixation and look beyond. You would never be able to appreciate cinema if you are so hung over one filmmaker!
… and accept the fact that copies are a way of Indian cinema. We don’t have the balls yet to try something new, at least not now
… and neither does Anurag so suck it up and live with it!
Aditya – I agree with you.
People seem to forget the quality of acting and craftsmanship evident in every frame of this film.
Even if the plot elements were indeed “inspired” or heavily borrowed from the Filipino film (and I don’t know about that), the adaptation in the Indian context is superbly handled. The acting in this single film alone can put half the “indian film fraternity” to shame.
Instead of moving on and appreciating what we’ve got here, people are latching on to the small (thani means that in some language, doesn’t it?) issues and robbing the film of its credits and hard work. I for one am sure glad as hell that more movies like these are being made now.
And about the premise, it never bothered me much. What was important was how it all played out before us and how Aamir comes to terms with whats in store for him and if he indeed has a choice. Lack of character development? I guess we were watching two very different films then. Were you by any chance in the next screen running Sex and the Shitty? ;)
He starts off defending himself that he’s a simple man and doesn’t want to have to do anything with any of the communal propaganda being forced upon him. Like mentioned in another post here, he probably was one of the many mute onlookers from the film (a recurring motif). And he realised in the end that though it seemed like he didn’t have a say in his destiny anymore, he indeed had a choice. Did he want to be just another onlooker, a puppet dancing to the tunes of the daily demands of life which can desensitise us to the point that we don’t really care anymore? Or we dance to the tune of someone who seems to have absolute control over your life forcing you to stick to the line, to do whats expected of you. Or give it all up and indeed live up to your name. He leads by his own example, by sacrificing himself to a cause alien to him just some reels ago, albeit one that was contrary to what was expected of him. That was the whole frickin point. What more development do you want than that where a character gives up whats most precious to him, his life, his family, an ordinary existance in lieu of something extraordinary that reaffirms our privileged position in this world of taking decisions that can change the course of not just our life but probably the entire humanity’s. But I digress. The whos, the whys and the hows didn’t matter to me anymore.
I truly hope that instead of swimming against the tide for the sake of it and perpetuating your self righteous image of an iconoclast, you can choose to let go of the nitpickings and for once truly applaud an extremely well crafted piece of work. I truly wish everyone associated with this film go places and it was extremely refreshing to see powerful performances and able handling of a powerful story by a set of freshers, if you may.
And all this is my opinion of course and you’re very well justified to hold on to your own.
-Sachin
c’mon guys.
aamir is just a half decent film. i wouldn’t give any credit to the filmmakers. the only thing that works is the thriller-like treatment. else, its really silly.
right from the choice of the character, a random pick; to the intricacy of the operation; anyone of the 20 odd characters who lead him on could place the bomb under a bus seat (not that they are looking for a chap who is anonymous – works against the very idea of terrorism. (They alw3ays claim responsibility). Further, what a ridiculopus way to replace the money in the bag with the bomb. Totally unbelievable. The most ridiculous being the climax. I see no reason why aamir has to hold on to the bomb in his arms and wait for it to explode. He just evacuated the construction spot. He could’ve placed the bopmb there and run away himself. Silly logic for need of drama.
I admit, the beginning was engaging. But it let me down right after.
The question here is this. Do i give credit to the filmmakers for making a film that is not very bad? Lets aim higher guys. Make me a really good movie guys. I’ll give the filmmakers the benefit of doubt and wait for the next movie.
I strongly disagree with Thani. First of all he never informed us in his post that the rights for the movie have been bought by the makers of AAMIR. I think that should be a good reason enough to let us not argue over the credibility of the movie makers or the movie.
In hollywood too Quentin tarantino remakes hong kong based movies (Kill bill series) and still he is considered to be one of the best. He rightly buys the rights for the films and hence the discussion of the counterfeit doesnt arise. Its the treatment of the subject which matters and I believe from the promos which I have seen of both, Cavite and AAMIR, the later is a far superior product.
hey nits
if the rights were bought by the makers, why don’t they acknowledge the fact by mentioning it in the casting? or did they and i n so many others didn’t see(like so many of us havn’t seen cavite and never will)? i read what karthik wrote: “the clever manner in which the producers says thanks to andre and neil(Director Of Cavite?) being another…”
how clever was that? in the end credits?
@jodot (25), buddy you have given the ending in your post.At the least, you could have put a spoiler alert. Now, I know the climax/ending…
The script of aamir was copyrighted before cavite ever came out and that should end this controversy, will put up a scan of the copyrighted script.
second the film found its producer two years later in 2007, and someone saw a similarity so UTV went ahead and sought written permission because the makers of the original had seen the point.
third the makers of Cavite are going to make the official statement about aamir and cavite so that everyone else shuts up, expect it soon
i can’t really say anything more than i already have about the makers’ claims, or the media’s. but surely can with comments here on this post.
PLEASE do make-up your minds if you wanna either say;
1. Rights of ‘Cavite’ have been bought (of whatever nature, & exploitation)
or
2. Rights haven’t been bought.
‘coz if they weren’t, we know how it feels – a lil’ CRAPPY. and if they were, then whatever necessitated the botheration, if the makers are anyways busy denying a RE-Make-ing.
All of the above is be-sides the point i have made in the post. In the case of ‘Bheja Fry’ there definitely is less confusion; the RIGHTS were indeed bought and the producers are sitting on the rights for very many more French Films!!!
so here’s the deal, & my question –
are any of you aspiring filmmakers interested in accessing the vaults (Bonafide, since RIGHTS have been pur-chased) of the Warners’, Paramount’s, Fox’s, Sony’s, NDTVlumiere’s, UTV world movies’, Palador’s???
i can guarantee that all of them will readily ensure that any film you pick from their collection would be legalized for you to put your Indigenizing skills to work.
The world that is not yet India is full of great cinema. But where does Indian cinema figure? Would anybody be interested in REmaking ‘Cavite’ if it were to be a Remake of a-nother film?? Of course NOT. Ooh, how could you lower your standards, and NOT pick an original, groundbreaking work for your REMAKE?? Unless you’ve stooped for a preference for the Kaantes, Hey Babys and Ghajinis(?).
About the major flaws pointed-out with ‘Aamir’, if it were to be an original effort that the writer/director had internalized, pursuing the route of Personal Cinema, i’m inclined to believe we would’ve been able to overlook its shortcomings, owing to the film’s overbearing sense of what has been learnt in the form of execution & delivery. But not when it’s borrowed. Because ‘Aamir’ starts intending to play realistic all the while, without realizing that it has already entered the realm of the fantastic; as soon as you’ve unreal situations (such as the choice of the victim, & his mad odyssey), & insist upon us to believe in the universe (successfully or otherwise) you’re playing the game of the fantastic (a cinematic sleight of hand, ONLY when the pay-off confirms as such) where ideas are supposed to STAND-IN for an imagining that we already have understood. You, the makers, start-off wannabe-realistic, play the film’s middle fantastic, and return to the realistic, of having to make a moral choice that’s thrusted-upon, in your treatment, only when conceived FANTASTICALLY.
If BhejaFrys & Aamirs (Rights or Wrongs) are the way towards a filmmaking debut, every single one of us would hate the self for having to invest in a separate cabinet for the DVD’s we want to INDIGINISE!!!
[And that's not even like SWEDING films (a la the Gondry land of 'Be Kind Rewind')]
And about my accused whining, all i have to say is – i would anyday sleep peaceful having pissed on The Other Cinemas of Bollywood (the cinematic incommunicados of a variety of acronyms). But not (on) my QAUM!
i wonder where our filmmaking QAUM aspires to DESTINate. This much i shall aspire to always maintain – REMAKE Country is definitely not the place, Rights or NO Mo’ Fuckin’ Rights.
Kismat agar khud likhni hain toh………………
your turn!!!
It’s sad when a person (Thani) with such a great command over the English language & an encyclopedic knowledge of cinema sits down on his (critics) chair & SLAMS / BASHES a film (AAMIR) in such a lyrical & poetic language. (Believe me I’m struggling to write this as I have a very average command over English). A guy who’s known to have seen almost every important film conveniently forgets to mention CHINATOWN in his extremely glowing review of MANORAMA – SFU (Personally thought it was a very ordinary film which almost ruined the Noir Genre in India). Did it have anything to do with the fact that he was hoping to get a writing job for the MANORAMA directors future project? Which he did get! Well it doesn’t make him very different from many of the maligned critics who are alleged to give good reviews for money or favours or for whatever goddamm reasons.
My frank advice to Thani. You seem to be a supremely talented writer. I think anyone can see that. I know you want to make films. Think you should concentrate on writing great ORIGINAL scripts & not such harmful reviews about first time film makers. You don’t realize it now but eventually it’ll harm your own chances of making a film.
…seems you waited long for this Thani, lol…very honest n bold post…superb!
Thani,
Choose your words correctly.. Aamir could be a legally Attested Copy (provided it is a copy of cavite which I haven’t seen so cant comement) and not a counterfeit work..
A first time film maker (read lots of first timers) on a low budget takes up courage and does a good job with relatively unknown faces, I believe his attempt should be applauded.. got back from the night show and I came back satisfied.. I liked the film despite its shortcomings.. The cast is perfect..
I used to hate Rajeev when he was Sujal and “Aankh ka taara” of my family and ofc my city (hails from Jaipur) and had absolutely no faith in the film till I heard its music.. Honestly it was Amit Trivedi’s music that made me look forward to the film.. All four songs are extremely well placed in the film.. And the best part is that the film doesn’t look out of place, its Mumbai all the way and the characters and conflict is as real (as it was for Manila) and some of the nuances are our very own…
there has been a delay in the comments’ appearance, as & when they were posted. with my comment (#30) i was cumulatively replying to the comments 1-28 (rahul to Vivek H). In the delay, Anurag’s comment seems to have queued-up too.
@gk
thanks Gautam [Gautam Kishanchandani, casting Director of 'Aamir', 'Black Friday' & 'No Smoking']. especially for the praise for a bit of writing i peddle. though sounded as a warning, i receive your timely advice as an advice.
what is your stance though, as an integral part of the film’s shaping, about the recently released ‘Aamir’?
@Thani…bheja fry scene is equally confusing. atleast it managed to confuse many. but am 200 perecnt sure that the bheja fry guys did not bought the rights of the original and it was simply copy paste job. n the excuses r many..it was less than 50 lakh films n this n that. and think about it who produced it..sunil doshi. yes the same guy who is bringing the best of world cinema to india. i dont knwo where to look and whom to lsiten..
i really liked aamir and think d soundtrack is terrific. havent seen cavite. but yes the plot sounds similar. n this time there is more confusion. but i think its highly unlikely that someone spotted the similarity intially only when aamir was taken to utv. bcz, before this controversy happend, i really doubt as to how many people knew about cavite and how many had actually seen it. the person who spotted the similarity and had seen cavite before surely needs to be rewarded then as the biggest film buff.
thani: “Kismat agar khud likh sakte, to usey kismat kyon kehte!”
btw in the film Aamir is the one who finally decides his own fate…
Btw when are you going to make your first film?.. will wait for it
.. Killing a film is certainely a much easier job than making a film….
Very interesting topic. Only in PFC can such opposite opinions co-exist.
I saw CAVITE 2 years back & it is my fav low budget film. I have forced all my friends to watch it since.
Unfortunately Aamir has not released in US. I hope all the glowing reviews change the producer/distributer’s mind.
If the film is good & entertains me for 2 hours, I don’t care. Seems like thats what has happened with the audiences of Aamir.
hey thani. was really saddened by your review. please know it was pure friendly advice so don’t get paranoid. It was DEFINATELY not a warning. I am in no position to warn anybody. As for my stance on the film, All the problems & issues I had with AAMIR have been conveyed to Rajkumar. And I think that is how it should be concerning aspiring film makers (like you & me) or established film makers commenting about the films made by their contemporaries. Our impressions no matter how strong have to be conveyed to a fellow filmmaker directly & not blasted on a public platform. I still strongly believe that Anurag had NO business commenting or reviewing Bhansali’s BLACK. It’s not his job, it’s for people like Khalid & Mayank. Unlike Khalid, don’t think Truffaut ever wrote a review after turning filmmaker. So Thani you have to be our Truffaut and not Khalid.
And finally, even I should have resisted about my comment on MANORAMA.
Hey Thani
I just found a Chase Film right here in PFC.
http://passionforcinema.com/my-1st-short-film/
Check it out
Editor Note(OM): Mac Mohan, Do not spam PFC with your same message on more than one article.
C’mon honestly who would buy the rights of a film just because by sheer “coincidence” the script looks similar.Wouldn’t you stand by your own honest effort if you had some pride??? . Anurag and co are full of BS when in actual fact they bought the rights to cover their ass from any litigation coming from indy fillipino filmmakers. You posers are doing no favour to the wider cause of Indian cinema … the more this kind of shit goes on the more you think there is a deeper malaise in modern Indian culture full of dishonesty mediocrity corruption and desperation.
counterfeiter you disrespect copyright when you say that.. when anything is copyrighted , dates are stamped on it.. permission was sought by utv because they plan to go international and they have public funds and so to satisfy their standing. and once they have the permission , and you can call it a bonafide remake if that satisfies you, but this exactly is the reason i have started staying away from PFC, its full of couch critics and people who have more opinions than they have done things in their lives and they bark more than bite.. it has become a passion in this country to see which film is based on what even if there is remote similarity between any two things.
Its sad and exactly the reason why neither RKG wanted to blog here on Aamir or I wanted to on Dev D.From now on i will refrain from commenting too if you don’t even have the balls to use your own name..
Thani i would have appreciated if you did not write such glowing reviews of either Manorama or No Smoking and called them counterfiet cinema too.. while i respect your piece on Aamir I still feel it is more subjective and personal than objective, and i have an issue with that. I find a lot of that happening on PFC and this time i can not deny it upsets me , it also upsets me that i am bothering to react but that is just to protect the integrity of RK.
you of all the people should know because of your access to us that its only me who saw cavite and RK never saw it, and later i did not even allow him to see it.. had he seen it, he would have put the reason as to why aamir was picked up in the first place which completes cavite and makes aamir feel incomplete.. anyone else writing this piece i would have vehemently defended it but with you writing this piece, it hurts because it is more your personal dislike for RK than your opinion on the film.
@gk. While you are completely entitled to your criticism of ‘Manorama’ and the fact that it almost ‘ruined’ the genre in India, I find it insulting that you credit me with an intelligence low enough to work with a person based purely on their ‘glowing’ review of the film.
It also makes me seem unfair to the dozens of other reviewers who gave ‘glowing’ reviews in the hope of work.
@thani
aaaah finally arguments and even a comment from AK … .. gr8 post Thani !!!
it was sad tat major part of the review was concentrated on “the remake issue” !!! wished to read lot more of “review” !!!
neway “the date n time” never came … got a week to go in Mumbai … may be when KKK is here we will catch up :-)
@Anurag,
boss, as much as i love everyone on PFC to be objective while writing on films, i do believe thats a tall order. this is also precisely the reason why theres more ‘opinions’ than reviews on PFC.
but dont u think, by letting it upset you to the point of not blogging/commenting, you are following the same path that you are critiquing? namely letting ur emotions dictate your actions…
let opinions be opinions do not give them any more weight by arguing to the big black wall…
v shd believe anurag k..writer of film than any critic…he ll post copyright stamp also…that shd end problem of copying cavite…
anurag k registered it b4 cavite came out nd he mightve written it much b4 applying 4 registration…
there can b other angle also…
he registered in india and sombody stole the story nd sent to philipins nd they fastly made cavite nd released..
cavite seems 2 b copy of aamir’s script nd not opposite is true…
ppl who ve seen cavite can tell if cavite is also having loopholes in story or writers there modified the story nd made it without any loop hole?
Editor’s Note(D) : Dont go advertising your review on every post chavanni.
ajay brahmatmaj’s review in dainik jagran and on chavanni chap blog….
http://chavannichap.blogspot.com/2008/06/blog-post_7243.html
@ Anurag Kashyap
why cant i find your comments here !!!
http://passionforcinema.com/aamir-the-city-screams-alone/#comments
Just because .. its a good review !!!
its no doubt that your name drags more readers … if u had commented there … many wud have read siddharths review than Thani’s !!!
and ya i got the balls to give my name .. its “george” !!!
;-)
@anurag
“anyone else writing this piece i would have vehemently defended it but with you writing this piece, it hurts because it is more your personal dislike for RK than your opinion on the film.”
That itself seems a rather subjective accusation and not really germane to the issue of copying.
It has actually happened to other people too in the creative industry. Sometimes similar ideas can crop up in two minds in different parts of the world at the same time.
Sometime ago, on the internet there’s this one guy who had an animated short film a few years ago and guess what? He claimed that the upcoming Pixar film Wall-E has somewhat similar visuals and characters to his student short film (and he also claimed that he had sent his demoreel to the studios for job before). But of course, their idea was conceived way long ago. Uncomfortable as it was for him, he had to realize that it was a mere coincidence (especially if you have similar art and sci fi literature influences).
Also, when a corporate entity decides to buy the rights to a movie it doesn’t mean that its necessarily a kind of cover up to hide their guilt. They are an international firm and they’ll need to protect their asses in all legal matters possible, even if that means raising doubts over buying a story that was originally theirs in the first place.
Also, too much importance and attention seems to be focussed on the origins of the story thereby belittling the efforts of the actors, the director and the crew. They all shine throughout the film.
And about the technicalities of the script, I’m no scriptwriter but I fucking know that a film has to be great to hold my attention and have me think about it even days after I first saw it. And powerful and engaging it was.
You can stick to the theory of scriptwriting as much as you like to the point of making a fucking boring movie but its only what ends up on screen and how it ends up there is what matters to me, the paying public.
-Sachin
Anurag Kashyap on June 7th, 2008 9:56 pm counterfeiter
….
but this exactly is the reason i have started staying away from PFC, its full of couch critics and people who have more opinions than they have done things in their lives and they bark more than bite.. it has become a passion in this country to see which film is based on what even if there is remote similarity between any two things…………..
anurag k seems 2 b very angry nd frustrated… on whole cavite nd aamir controversy..
bhansali also might ve abused anurag k at his home to his friends reading anurag k’s criticism of black…
by then no film of anurag was released he also might ve said… this man has done less in life nd speaks more…
aadmi agar apnee kismat khud bana sakta to use kismat kyon kehte…
kismat has brought anurag k on that stage where he is suffering f4om same emotions which he gave 2 others…
it seems pfc is under tension within its members only…
this is headache of pfc ppl but as a regular reader its sad 2 c anurag k abusing whole pfc…
ven whole world panning his no smoking.. i got 2 read gud things abt the film nd that motivated me 2 c the film…
its sad 2 c that a filmmaker nd famous writer think in these terms.. if he thinks this way under emotions how he can write gud characters, emotions any more…
days have come for a writer who wrote satya?
is it deradation of professional standard 4 anurag k?
just he cd not take criticism of his film… he tried 2 kill pfc in 1 statement…
wht a relation nd wht a devotion
almost like ekta kapoors soap opera…
more than anything sad part is 2 c lack of proper think from anurag k side…
his outburst is harming his own reputation as a writer …
he was the most fiery author on pfc abusing whole filmworld, sparing 2 none nd his moves might ve motivated pfc writers who cd b his fans also nd now conviniently nd cleverly he is trying 2 staying aside leaving whole charge on pfc… a easy move…
it shows he was wrong in past ven he abused filmworld nd ppl believed him … nd abused filmmakers on his target…
vat is the gurantee he is right 2day also?
it also seem writer of this article is known 2 him nd writer n rajkumargupta dont like each other… anurag k stepped in to personal politics of his grp then but at same time he used pfc also for his own politics…
its a gud plot 2 c… how ppl drift apart…
anurag k degraded his image… a film director shd be balanced in thinking else y ppl will watch his films…
@krishn,
wow wow buddy …
dont go piling it on unnecessarily..
theres no need to make assumptions on anybody’s personality here…
chill out
@Navdeep Singh
My sincere apologies to you. My only concern was with Thani’s hypocrisy in his reviews. Its obvious that Thani seems to be a very gifted writer and any director would be able to see his talent.
I still don’t get it Anurag..if as you say the script was registered before cavite was released what is the conflict??? So what is the status of the film.. is it a remake or an original? If it is an original why was the rights to cavite bought if the similarities are purely coincidental and verifiable?? just to preempt the catcall of copycat…which infact has done the opposite and tainted the movie forever which otherwise would have only been brought up in some fringe review like thani’s.
)
If i was RKG i would be mighty pissed off with whoever thought up this bright idea if what you say is true.
I am not an insider so knowing my name won’t make a difference to how you feel about me…a neutered dog that can’t bite..:)))
but don’t stop posting ..i still love you buddy OXOXOX
53… no i dont need.. its ur family matter… solve it urself… as audience i ve my freedom of expression once u opine on internet…
dont act.. dont get react… simple…
nd read 47 also b4 u make opinion… issues r different nd ppl may ve little brain…
truth is bitter… but if u want to hide it.. it wont…
chilling in nd out both… i dont add in global warming…
cheers
@56,
i guess u didnt get it…
peace bro!!
Another thought….when you say plan to take it international,do you mean an international release or taking to international film festivals? For the former any shite could be released without justification if there is money to be made and for the latter…why would you want to take a film whose concept and treatment have already been done that too 2 years ago by a low budget fillipino production and which has done the rounds of film festivals with much acclaim???
If it is just to show off craftmanship, it again highlights the pathetic state of Indian cinema and reinforces its irrelevance when it comes to world cinema.
Please UTV people..resist this urge to feel self important… atleast it will save the future generations from being stereotyped and looked down upon with ridicule.
dear anurag sir- i would say wat a a friend of mine said ..i totally endorse his view…
first of all critics are always “couch critics”. if they go out and make films and then they simultanously do the review job then its unethical!!!
you cannot expect everyone to go and ‘make’ films just becos the hindi film industry is at whatever state it is…
again i reiterate…i can criticise the south indian food available in my office canteen ..but that doesnt mean my cook will turn around and ask me to ‘cook better idli vada dosas’ as a challenge…thats not my job ….
i paid for that idli vada dosa so i expect it to be tasty …i dont expect the cook to turn around and ask me to “go learn cooking …jump and cook better”…
“they bark more than bite…”
now if only someone could tell you sir with due respect …
just becos we dont make films…we are barking more than we bite ??? when we criticised yashraj ..we were the ‘cults’ but when we jumped on no smoking-khoya-khoya-aamir pointing at some of the flaws and yet praising it as well ..we become barking dogs ???
u dont notice us bashing sarkar raj..but only aamir,manorama,khoya khoya,bheja fry etc (the films u endorse)
watever happened to democracy sir ? the starting reason as to what attracted u to pfc …
ask urself this question in all honesty sir …who was the so called leader of the barking lot pfc..who barked the loudest and who barked on everyone possible ?
who started it sir ?
who was the person barking at every occassion a filmaker strayed away..or was corrupted…? who was it sir ?
apologies sir for the lack of better word…
i remember the line from a few good men…you cant handle the truth!!! whatever…..
if u dont like pfc anymore, u have the option of staying away as u have been doing it. what can we do except feel sad.
i wholeheartedly agree to what krishn and gautam have commented.
i dont understand a simple thing……why cant the ‘evidence’ be posted here on pfc to cut out every doubt.
why didnt they clearly mention in the film that they have taken the rights of cavite. that wud have ended it at one go. bcz every reviewer has said d same thing about cavite in his/her review. also has it ever happend before that someone has gone to buy the rights only bcz they think their film “sounds” similar to other film…..i dont remember if it has happened with anyone before ?
URGENT REQUEST TO YOU SIR..PLS SCAN THE FIRST PAGE OF THE SCRIPT OF AAMIR WITH THE REGISTERED DATE …IM SURE ALL OF THE DETRACTORS AND “COUCH CRITICS” LIKE US WILL SHUT UP THEN …
I don’t get what all the fuss is about. Indian Film Industry has a stain, which is all Indian Films are copied from Hollywood or Foreign Films. And when a Hindi Film shares a similarity with a foreign film, then the audience’s doubt will turn into…
Last year we had Metro.. which was also copied from some Hollywood film, apparently. But many of you liked it and ignored that fact but others didn’t liked it and criticized the film for being a copy. This is the same case with Aamir. However, apparetnly, Aamir was created before Cavite. A fact or not a fact? It doesn’t matter cos the audience prefers films which are illegally copied.
It’s like WWF. Everyone knows its fake. But the audience still loves it and abuses it for its fakeness. Same with Hindi Films.
u love pfc when we praise black friday …and even encourage RK’s post discussing it in detail….
when we “attacked yrf” ….
but when no smoking…bheja fry ..manorama…khoya khoya … aamir are criticised..thats when we become “barking dogs” ???
wondering who is being subjective and who is being objective ….
so we need to be filmakers before we criticise them ?
i have the privilidge of knowing u personally …and know u follow cricket a lot …so if u criticise sachin’s back foot shot dismissals …u become a couch critic by the same analogy ?
so if u cannot “quit filmaking” and start playing cricket professionally ..u cease to be a cricket fanatic and become a couch critic ???
well said karthik krishnan
Anurag, i’ve no personal dislike for Rajkumar or for Aamir. My opinion of Aamir’s filmmaking is that it is impressive (apart from a couple of elements already mentioned).
Unfortunately, the discussion on this post has concentrated with the Rights issue, while my focus with this piece has always been the fact that a film (so well-made and well-received) had to be loved with reservation, that it is re-filmed. irrespective of the fact of the Rights.
kk you just missed the point ..this article is not criticism..this is bitching..
this is not a review..
i have taken more criticism from PFC than anyone, have taken it all my life.. this is not a review..remember when you were criticised, how you abused and went off PFC.. when i criticised your film, you started criticising everything else.. this is about an issue that has been going on in the club for last one year..
first it was called a remake of cavite ,even before the film started.. well on a personal level i have gone and proven to everyone else it wasn’t, so while the world can say whatever they want to, but its people who praise you on your face and then criticise you here why? just to prove see i m anurag’s friend ..yet i can be critical of him.. you loved NS and then trashed it here.. what do you say to that except being hypocritical and wanting to be a hero..
you can come and see the evidence in my office.. RK has refused to post it here.
he says, why the fuck should i prove it to anyone
thani your points could have been taken had you said them in two years you have been with me while the film was being put togeyher.. not right after it has released, you expect me to believe there is no agenda..
and why is it that the very things PFC stands against is now slowly endorsing if not for lack of popularity and number of hits. why is khalid and SKJ been invited to write here. don’t say the reason is democratic. because it is not. PFC is not the same..don’t start me off
it’s become a power drunk site that gives voice to impotent people
a lot of people like that who you call practical , i call them impotent.. none of you who can take a stand and stick by it and face the wrath of everyone.. Democracy is what you feel , not what you try to show off.
oh gawd!! chill out kk!
anurag, correct me if i am wrong. its a classic case of history repeating itself. when SLB’s black was in post-production, other than the cast and crew of the film, anurag was one of those few guys who was shown the rushes of the film. that time he said it was mindblowing and he hadnt seen anything like this before. ofcourse everyone was extremely happy to hear it from mr kashyap. but when the reviewers went ga-ga about the film, the same mr kashyap could not take it. he wrote an extremely nasty piece on tehelka. this time its the same case. and thats what is thani’s intention through this post. love the film but with reservation. now ofcourse mr kashyap cant face it. i got to know about miracle worker through his article. now he blames us that it has become our passion to figure out the original source. huh ?? good joke sir, good joke. here is the link..
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main10.asp?filename=hub022605Color_of.asp
is it the same man who had the guts to call k jo’s show the masturbatory club. and then he joined the same club. so how can he like pfc anymore. its obvious. i was waiting for this to happen. can sagar bellary or anurag basu come out and face the public ? ofcourse not becuase they also know how they have made their films. if a man has integrity, he can face anything. accept it, mr kashyap, you have sold out. And if you have some time, do visit this post of yours…
http://passionforcinema.com/to-be-howard-roark-you-have-to-first-kill-your-family/
and to quote your words…so PFC doesn’t have a purpose but it serves the purpose.. the next big monument can only be built on the existing ground, and when there is no ground we will have to demolish what’s falling apart to rebuild a new order.. it can only be done by those who either have lived life or seen, and read better so they know what’s in there heart can be on paper and screen.. again quoting the nobel prize winner TONI MORRISON.
like many other film buffs who got inspired by you, i will be missing your posts. hope others also learn to live without you and your inspiring posts.
oh gawd!!!
say that to anurag Dpac !!!
yeah oh gawd to everyone here including anurag!
happy kk?
I think, everyone should read Subrat’s latest post and look forward to the next friday!
Cos this debate will never be closed and hence can be continued next week.
:-D
Bhansali was never my friend.. he never showed black to anyone.. he does not show his film to anyone.. ask him.. i have always criticised on face
its a pity that noone can have a civil debate over here without accusing the other of hidden agendas
Criticism on face or off face with hidden or open agendas is missing the point completely and is borne out of a siege mentality …in the process Anurag, you are missing the forest for the trees.
The point is good cinema… while its admirable of you to defend your colleague with such vigour your priority, I would hope, should be good cinema.
You seem to be more concerned about protecting your clique from the big bad world than nurturing a good cinema culture when you got a captive audience here in pfc.
If you still don’t see it just read your own posts… do you really think you can change peoples mind by some petty arguments ad hominems and being vague.
What good is gonna come out of it…RKG feeling all nice and warm inside.
You make it sound like criticism is the biggest crime you can commit on a filmmaker.Good or bad see for what it is and give us a more thoughtful take on it.
To come back to the topic at hand, and Aamir is not what you call good cinema Counterfeiter?
This is getting nasty.
RKG seems to have blown everyone with his film. Now he copied the idea or not, we dont know. Maybe he has, maybe he didnt. (I personally would take Anurag’s word for it)
It happens all the time that 2 people have the same idea. It has happened to me & my friend. Both of us pitched short film ideas in our screenwriting class. Next year we saw 2 films being released based on the same idea. Mine starred Sandra Bullock & his starred Will Farrell.
Now we will never know if our professor sells the ideas he hears in class in the industry. He is a working writer in Hollywood.
!st I thought he must be doing that. Its too much fucking co incidence. Then me & my friend went out for a drinking binge & celebrated the fact that we both are “Talented” people. They copied our ideas or not, our ideas are worth million dollars.
This was RKG’s 1st film. He has impressed almost everyone with his craft. If he is a fluke i’m sure we’ll know in a few years. Lets not discourage him.
this personal fight is sad…
anurag k is right in 1 thing if thani was part of his team 4 2 years then 2 write article now is wrong…
but 1 q pops up… when anurag k knew cavite was released in 2005 nd he knew his story was similar to cavite why u made aamir on first place
Omgggg………WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE??? I came to read the views on the film “AAMIR”…..Here everything except that is happening….!
Anyways, to get back on track,…..I think, I disagree with the review totally…….Coz i caught the film first day first show and I loved it !And with almost all the major critics too agreeing with my opinion…..Im very happy !
I think the entire team has done a remarkable job…….Kudos to everyone and special regards to Rajeev Khandelwal…….He has proved the term “Tv actors cant become Movie Stars” wrong ! This was a superb debut and Rajeev and RKG deserve all the debut awards atleast,also Alphonse Roy! ….The Best Actor and Director awards would i think be out of bounds ,as we all know how the award functions work……all of them are rigged !
I havent seen Cavite, and half of this country hasnt seen the film either……………So frankly, it hardly matters,the film is lovely…..!
I loveddd the film…….And now im really looking forward to Rajeev’s next film ! And also Rajkumar Gupta’s next film……!Here’s hoping Aamir rocks the award functions this year !
And finally……The paying audience pays to see a good film…..And I m definitely gonna higly recommend it to everyone….Better than watching Sarkar Raj !!
@78 I haven’t seen aamir
Aamir is a very original indian film…..
The entire films credits goes to the hard working team of RajKumar Gupta, Anurag Kashyap, Amit Trivedi and ofcourse Rajeev Khandelwal….
I respect the fact that they believe in a reality cinema!!!!!!!….
@ Counterfeiter – U are saying all this without even watching the film ….Atleast Watch it first !
Editor note: Please use your real name to make such a personal attack. PFC cannot allow anonymous personal attacks to continue at this time. Your comment has been deleted.
I liked Aamir…coz I sat thru it right on the edge of my seat wonderin wats gonna happen next!
But at the end of the film, I felt cheated… coz what I’d ideally like to see in such a film is an intelligent twist, to see the tables turned, to see that no matter how meticulously planned the villain is..the protagonist pulls off the impossible…its like making a film in the thriller genre and in the end makin it a tragic art house film where the harsh truth of life has to be felt…
For instance…I wud have loved it if Aamir wud have picked up clues about the Villain’s whereabouts through the many telephonic conversations they have…and in the end he somehow gets the damn bomb to explode under the villain’s ass…heck he cud die too but atleast kill the villain alongwith…but then maybe I like stories which have hope or victory in the end…
But then if Aamir is a stark realistic film then it shud have been that…why does the film become unrealistic…
- Like why shud Mumbai have to be introduced with a song which seems more apt for 60’s new york…pretentious…especially since when i see a montage of middle n lower class mumbai against it.
- Like why should all the people stare at Aamir as if they were on dope…too surreal like No Smoking
- Like why should the bomb be in a bright red briefcase…too ‘Trainspotting’ or ‘Johnny Gaddar’ type
But havin said all this…I think its a brilliant first film…for the director, music dir and DOP (assuming it IS a first film for all of them)…
Ohh…and I also think its a brilliant first film for lead actor Rajeeb K
“when i criticised your film, you started criticising everything else”
“just to prove see i m anurag’s friend ..yet i can be critical of him.. you loved NS and then trashed it here.. what do you say to that except being hypocritical and wanting to be a hero”
very very skewd opinion sir ..thats all i can say … and it saddens me to see you talk like this ….
thats all i can say …
all the best sir
I haven’t seen this movie, but I am desperate to watch this movie.
My 2 cents.
Nick of Time remains a favourite movie of mine and there is nothing wrong to be inspired by such a great movie and create your own with your twists. I happened to watch a Chakravarthi starrer in Telugu which was a blatant copy of Nick Of Time and they had raped the movie big time in the process.
If two film makers from different time zones got the same inspiration wanted to make it native with a current issue backdrop (terrorism), I think we should concede them that, instead of calling one of their works tainted. Cavite got released ahead and I shudder to think if RKG had got his film released/made ahead, what would’ve happened. I know for sure that the film would then have been a copy of “Nick Of Time” and panned by seekers of “Originality – holy grail”.
Basic point is, the theme of Nick of Time leaves a narrow margin for reinterpretation (a soft person pushed to do horrible things and how he regains his righteousness) and delivers huge impact with the audiences. IF I want to be making a film, I would love to make a film that delivers high impact and bother about making “totally my kind of movies” later. I saw Black Friday and felt that though and amazing piece of cinema it is, too risky as there is no emotional manipulation to get general audience interested in the movie. It is inconceivable that any new director would go the ‘Black Friday’ way for the first film of their life. In that respect, critics of Aamir have to respect the delicate position of the director and his team. You guys can bring your scissors and knives out in the same manner if the second film of RKG trips your ‘originality sensors’ but for this time he has my Benefit of Doubt (not that he requires it in any big way from me). I will let Anurag’s generalized criticism of PFC pass by as outspoken frustration and I guess PFC, its authors and readers can take it and live with it for they have the maturity and diversity of views.
What is appalling is many people are passing judgment without even viewing Cavite first. Can anyone who watched the movie tell us why Aamir is a copy of Cavite and why is it not possible for these two movies to be separately conceived? I mean it should be quite obvious if for examples scenes/execution is copied.
i really think anurag and the dirctor should publish the evidence here …anurag owes it to PFC..
and one thing i would like to ask anurag has he ever bothered to give the benifit of doubt to other filmmakers like the yash raj or the johars or the bhansalis when they claimed their film is original when it seemed to borrow from other film/s…never!…and this film’s plot is not similar but it is the same as cavite ….why does he expect people to believe it is not copied when he never believed some other films were not copies when their plots were not even same , they just had some similarities …i really dont understand why anurag kashyap gets so defensive when people compare manorma with chinatown or mithya with some italian movie or aamir with cavite or his own no smoking with cat’s eye …is this a new camp ???
Finally, someone who agrees with me on the movie. I could not understand why critics were going ga-ga about this movie. I agree that its a commendable effort for a debut, but in no way is it the ‘film of the year’ or the ‘best debut ever’.
I think it has just become fashionable to praise off-beat cinema… I agree with Ashish that I felt cheated at the end of the movie and was exasperated that it went absolutely nowhere
“i really think anurag and the dirctor should publish the evidence here …anurag owes it to PFC..”
Saga@91
First things first. No one owes it to anyone buddy. If you have done something you have done it out of self interest or rather may be some other motive. And if I am quoting it out from your comment that does not make you the only person doing it. it is out of convenience of your comment being the easiest to access.
I have a serious concerns with all of us. Lets not wash our dirty linen in public. It is sad to see KK who was once considered to be AK’s hench man going against him and at the same time it is good to see that. That really sends out a +ve signal that we are not not for some one in particluar rather we are in here for cinema as a whole.
At the same time all said and done why dont we discuss cinema for a change??? Let the fucking copy rights rot and let it be a remake. How does it make any difference as long as the movie is good. let UTV worry about being sued and AK being condemned for some idea lift. In the whole of this discussion had the movie been discussed for more than 20%???
There were a couple of valid discussions about the motive behind Amir ali being chosen for the job, loopholes in logic etc..lets discuss more about it. Let it be a learning experience for both the parties namely the critics(we) and the film makers(AK and the lot). I know there are a lot of people on PFC who really are ready to jump to the other compound soon. Let this be a learning ground to them.
By saying this I neither endorse KK’s stand nor AK’s. I am the third front
As a foot note let me add… ” Discuss cinema and not the maker’s”
Completely agree Mindtentative ! No one is discussing the movie !!! Its either mindless appreciation or mindless slander ! Even the constitution of this country states that one is innocent until proven guilty. Anurag or RKG dont need to prove anything to anyone IMO. If anybody has compelling evidence against them,…let him come forward. Lets talk cinema here and refrain from personal attacks.
I think Anurag has cleared his stance on the issue already and there is nothing more to be said on this. I don’t see any need for him or RK to publish or prove anything on this site.
I hope he stays on and continues blogging…
Cheers
Thani
Where is the critic’s integrity now? Even after Anurag Kashyap’s rebuttal to your claims, why is there no pointer to that effect on the post? Why is the post up at all? You have been proven wrong so would it hurt to put that upfront?
Be fair.
I would want to talk about the movie but I have lost interest. It’s a dirty war going on here. If I am asked to choose sides, I would stand by the movie and its makers. Who am I? The paying audience.
^I’m with you Ullas on this.
@93: Totally agree with you.
And counterfeiter, you haven’t seen the movie yet but you’ve already managed to pass such huge judgements! Wow, at least you’re living up to your name ;)
@86: I loved the fact that the movie opens with that song! It was quite a refreshing opening and not another bollywood oldies or current hot favourite item number blaring out of some barber shop. It was something I personally always wanted to experiment with an opening shot of Mumbai and it totally worked for me here.
-Sachin
@counterfeiter – you seem true to your name. you seem to be writing tons about a movie without having seen it! amazing!
@Ashish Biswas – Please put spoiler alerts!
my apologies to Anurag if i have hurt him anyway ….
i express deep regret …. i got carried away to see him bad mouthing pfc and couldnt resist ….
apologies once again
I can’t add much more to the conversation as what I think has already been said here, but can you commenters and other bloggers please get your facts straight about Cavite?
It is not a Fillipino film, it is an American film by two American filmmakers whose parents happen to be from the Phillipines.
I am finding most of this debate silly, especially because so many are debating a film you haven’t seen with out even knowing the basics of who shot the film in the first place…
when I saw the trailer of Cavite…I found a lot of similarities in the treatment and look..however I had already read Anurag Kashyap’s post about Aamir not being a copy..I think Anurag Kashyap has earned enough credibility for us to trust him! If he says Raj Kumar Gupta has not seen the film…then why should we not believe him?
Wats the fucking point of the movie?
Are terror plots this convoluted and this dependant on chance?
Why dont these assholes have a plan B?
Why does the bald guy let half of mumbai know beforehand that he is planning a blast?
Why doesnt the bald guy send the prostitute (or for that matter anyone else) to keep the bomb in the bus?
Why does everyone turn into a hero in the last 3 minutes of the film?
why does the script take the easy way out?
damn i was enjoying the film so much and then the ending ruined it totally :(
I saw Aamir yesterday. In a rare, rare instance, I agree with Khalid this time, it is a good first time effort but really, not a dazzling one as proclaimed by many. It tries to be realistic but logical flaws are just too many. If the job was about putting the bomb in the bus, there was no reason to bring a unwilling, non-professional guy to do the job when it can be done easily otherwise. The switch-twist at the end is quite silly. Why you have to introduce mindless twist just for the sake of drama? Some logic, please!
The background score, too, is quite unimaginative and somewhat overused. At every other moment, the BG score starts to underline the scene like a huge red marker to force the audience to understand the situation. A thriller like this requires silent moments much more than it provides in reality. I think the main setback of the film is screenplay which could have been much better, since the plot wireframe is really good. The dream sequence in the middle will only encourage people to think it is inspired from Nick of Time which, I am pretty sure, is not the case. That sequence can be easily removed without any impact on the film.
Yet, it is a good at pockets. The cinematography is top class. Direction is very good at times, though the overflow of Mumbai shots makes it look a little self-indulging. There is nothing to go ga-ga over this one but I will definitely watch the next venture of RKG.
As I read from top to bottom of the growing comment list, it feels like finally the stupid debate of whether the film is a remake or not has been put to rest – rightfully so…
It seriously doesnt matter to me whether its a remake or a blatant copy, I enjoyed BhejaFry equally as i enjoyed the sub-tilted French original.
Coming to some of the questions raised about the plot of the movie in the couple of last comments, my two-bits of understanding.
1. The movie WAS NOT about PLANTING A BOMB in a bus. Yes if the bald guy wanted a bomb to be planted, he could have done it using many of his trained Mujahideens… But the movie was more about making a supposedly secular,’simple living’, educated Muslim youth go through the experience of terror and helplessness, that the muslim youth – according to the baldie undergo in present world. The clue to this is the scene when baldie calls up Aamir just after he beats up those thugs to take the suitcase back, and talks about fighting back when something is taken from us. he wanted to brainwash Aamir through this experience and ultimately recruit him by controlling his ‘destiny’, which aamir, as his name suggests doesnt let it happen. Another clue is the scene when the baldie winds up the red doll and plays it on the floor, but after sometime it refuses to play, inspite of him beating it and ultimately falls on the floor – reminded me of blackfriday, but amazing anyways..
2. The red suitcase issue: well this one I am still figuring it out. I am pretty sure the color of the suitcase had a major role to play. On the surface the color represnts ‘danger’. clue: when the suitcase is handed over to aamir for the first time, the color adds to the terrified emotions. It could also be the identifying factor for all those puppets of the Baldie, to identify aamir, something like this might have happened before hand. “a man will come with a red suitcase, you have to mislead him / attack him / chase him.. etc”
3. The end scenes in the bus is a very good way of hanging the people in. first the letting go of the bag, looking back at the normal innocent people in slowmo, getting down, I could literary feel as if I am making that desicion! and when I see the child waving his to me through the window, that split second I do what I always wanted to do, but did not know if i was capable… brilliant!!!
The whole team, wish I was one of you on this
@Naveen
try reading “The Killing Joke” by Alan Moore.
Its about whether we can be turn insane if we have one really bad day. Its a blast.
sorry for the typo
@Papai
Thanx for the suggestion, would definetly read it!
Though I had no bad day when i watched it…
But well if the world is sane, then I dont mind being called as Insane at all ;-)
RKG, don’t stop making movies!
People, whatever might be your grouses about PFC… please do not stop writing/commenting here. It is million times better than other portals.
@Papai,
Sorry about assuming some stuff… ignore my comments regearding me having no bad day. Went thru some ref on Alan Moores comic and ‘one bad day’, things do fall in perspective now… Thanks… will definetly buy that and read it… its up on my agenda right now:-)
Hy naveen,
nice write-up. I agree with all your points. The climax scene was one of the most engaging ones I’ve seen in recent times.
Good film .. very nice .. and rajeev’s acting is Top Class .. very mature ..
my only complaint was why a bright red suitcase which will get spotted easily .. but i guess they used it for enhancing the visual factor
well anurag this is a hard reality for u to answer. u crticise films like blac swades and saawariya coz they are inspired or copy in ur words from some another source. and you criticise bhansali for plagiraism which is to an extent justified too. now when u can criticise bhansali for plagiarism cant u appreciate him for the supreme quality visual sense he has. well u must be having a huge and great world cinema collection at home full of fellini,truffaut,kurosawa,majid majidi,luchino visconti,bergman etc but the fact is can u make a film of that caliber ?
and then u question indian cinema’s credibility well to make u remember a film like kaagaz ke phool, pyaasa aur do bhiga zameen are the films from india – apna indian cinema.
anurag ur intellectual but with a superiority complex.
Aamir is a wonderful film, possibly the best film of the year so far. But the storyline is too similar to that of Cavite to be ignored. It’s not as though Aamir should be branded a rip-off of Cavite, but the latter having come way back in 2006 definitely gets the benefit of doubt. RKG might’ve subconsciously improvised on the screenplay, because it doesn’t seem possible that two films have a man on the run with a cellphone with a terrorist at the other end.
Anurag Kashyap leaves no stone unturned to label even the smallest things in other films as “plagiarized”, but I guess he lacks the integrity to come out in the open and accept that the basic premise of Aamir was inspired from Cavite. And if the screenplay had been copyrighted before that of Cavite’s, why did UTV buy it’s rights? I guess Anurag just lacks the balls to come out in the open and accept that Aamir is a desi version of Cavite. You gave us a dud in the form of Shakalala Boom Boom, which was a copy of Amadeus. It bombed. You accepted it back then, so why not now?
Whatever is the truth, a man in denial isn’t venerated.
Dear Thani
well said. But i am not concerned with Amir being a copy or not. My question to Mr Kumar & Mr Anurag is whats the story. A man who is the chosen one, is given a red box with a bomb and has to blow up a bus??? its like i have a refrigerator, i was sitting in my living room felt like having water, went to the refrigerator and had it.
WHATS THE STORY or maybe this is what they thought stories are about.
Munnabhai and Circuit are busy running with a mobile phone in Circuit’s hand and a briefcase in Munnabhai’s hand. Circuit is busy talking on the cell.
Circuit: Haan…Wokay….done….
Saying this, he disconnects…Munnabhai looks at Circuit with fear in his eyes…
Munnabhai: Kya bolta hain Anurag?
Circuit: Bhai…Bolta hain ki yeh briefcase koi thani naam ke bande ke ghar mein rakhne ka….
Munnabhai: Jaldi bhaag, time nikal jaayega…
Circuit: Bhai…bhaag bhaag key main thak gaya hu…ek chai peeke phir bhaagthe hain….
Munnabhai: Teekh hain….
They both stop at a tapri and order two cuttings….
Circuit: Bhai…Yeh briefcase mein kya hain dekthe hain…
Munnabhai: Abbe gandu…bomb nikla tho?
Circuit: Kuch nahi hoga bhai…timer mein chal raha hoga…ek baar time check karenge…
Munnabhai: Teekh hain…khol…
Circuit slowly opens the briefcase…expecting it to blast any moment….He is shocked to see the stuff inside…
Munnabhai: Kya hain andar?
Circuit: Bhai…Ismein tho koi Aamir naam ka picture ka copyrighted screenplay hain…Ismein ek bada stamp bhi maara hua hain, “REGISTERED BEFORE CAVITE” bolke…
Munnabhai: Iski toh….Ab yaad aaraha hain…PFC mein bavaal mach gaya yeh picture ke baarien mein…
Circuit: Kya hua bhai?
Munnabhai: Anurag bolta hain ki PFC power hungry hogaya aur sab kursi critics hogayele hain…
Circuit: Kursi critcs?
Munnabhai: Wohich…kya boltein angrezi mein…Arm chair ya couch critics…
Circuit: Jo bhi hain…Anurag teekh hi bola…uddhar ab democracy bacha nahi bhai…Apna Machchar ko bhi nikal diya na woh log…Saala usnein kuch nahi kiya phir bhi gaand pe laath maarke hata diye…
Munnabhai: Machchar pehle toda shaanpatti kiya tha na who white wali writer sey…
Circuit: Jo bhi hain…Yeh Aamir ka Maamla kya hain?
Munnabhai: Arre, copy ya original ho…kaun care karta hain…Dekh uddhar film theatre hain…log picture dekhke baahar nikar rahe hain….Main usko poochtha hu…
Munnabhai stops a man coming out from the theatre….
Munnabhai: Bhau…Kaunsa picture dekha hain….
Man: Aamir…
Munnabhai: Cavite…
Man: Kya te?
Munnabhai: Cavite….
Man: Abbe kya bol raha hain….
Munnabhai:Arre bhau…Main pooch raha tha picture kaisa hain?
Man: Oh…Aisa bolna…Picture average hain…ek baar dekh sakthe hain…
Saying this the man leaves….
Munnabhai: Dekha…Picture dekhne wala koi care nahi kartha…Sirf woh dabba office hain na…
Circuit: Dabba Office?
Munnabhai: Woich…Box Office…wohi important hain…Picture hit…RK Gupta Hit…Picture phat…phir bhi RK Gupta hit….
Circuit: Woh kaisa bhai?
Munnabhai: Aaj kal sab marketing hain…Picture flop hua toh bhi log aisa perspiration…
Circuit: Perception….
Munnabhai: haan woich…perception create karre hain ki picture hatkela hain…new wave hain…gorilla style hain…
Circuit: Guerrilla bhai…
Munnabhai: haan haan…toh media ke through RK Gupta ko Anurag part 2 bana diya….Ab directors ka kami hain industry mein….dekhte jaa RK Gupta ko koi corporate 5 film deal offer karega!
Circuit: Accha hain bhai….Ab hum yeh bomb…err script ka kya kare?
Munnabhai: Chal, thani ke ghar…
Independent of the fact that Aamir seem to be heavily inspired from (or adapted from) Cavite, I enjoyed Aamir. I watched both movies, and in fact found Aamir technically more sound than Cavite.
But what grinds my gears is how Kashyap and Gupta are trying to pass around their adapted (or inspired) script is original. These two movies are just too similar that I just can’t believe their claim of this being coincidental.
Read “script as original” instead of “script is original”.
I am appalled to see the way Aamir ‘unedited’ pirated dvd’s floating around, and that too from the time of its release [ so i hear] And i wonder who could have actually got them dumped from the editing room and shared it around with people. Now that the film has proved itself it doesn’t matter? but seeing this so blatantly happen could be the scariest thing for the future.
Anurag has made his point more than clear- if you don’t trust him, be happy that way. This is a bitchy, stupid, pointless, and worthless post. I am sorry to be saying this, but the malice filled in here makes me cringe.
there is always a big difference between ‘inspired & copied’….
it’s amazing to see how a single honest post can spark off a whole host of comments/alligations/ compliments/belittling/bickering so on and so forth.
I hope posts like these, howsoever small they may be, become tipping points and help the “lazier than the sun bathing hippo” film makers sit up and work on some original scripts.