Additional features?!
I don’t get it. I just don’t get it. Would someone kindly explain it to me, please? Why is it that whenever I get an Indian DVD with a bonus disc including additional features, there are NEVER (and I mean NEVER) subtitles of any kind?
Come on, one would expect that if the film has - at least English - subtitles, then all the additional material would also have that option. Doesn’t that make sense?! Or have I gone completely capricious? Why do I have to miss half the making ofs, interviews with choreographers, composers, singers, director, etc. when I have been able to follow the whole film? Does that sound fair? It just annoys me so much! And I complain!!! ~X(
Isn’t there anything that can be done about it?! :((
PS: Written after trying to understand bonus disc from Omkara. Sorry, I needed to get it off my chest. Thanks, PFC.
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= Monica, I never ever thought about that… they should actually… it makes no sense to provide subtitles for your movie knowing it will be seen by non-Hindi speaking audience and then not provide subtitles for the bonus features… I think they assume all non-Hindi speaking viewers will be talking Hindi by the time they finish the movie…
Since I don’t often look at bonus features… do movies in other languages have subtitles for bonus features?
THANK YOU!!!
I have written about this on my own blog, and I am glad to see that someone else is talking about this!!!
It is not only the bonus features that lack subtitles. I find that many of the Indian movies I rent that have subtitles throughout the film do not have subtitles for the songs! What is the point of that, especially since the songs are such an integral part of the movies!
Who is the distributor for Indian films in Spain. Here in the US, EROS Entertainment is the largest distributor. Maybe we could start letter writing campaigns. Letter writing sure worked to get Apple to beef up its Bollywood selections on iTunes!
oz, many of the movies in other languages do have subtitles for some (but not all) of their bonus features. It isn’t consistent for any movie, country, language, etc. I think it may be based on how much money the producer/distributor have as it seems the bigger budget, better known movies do this, but not smaller films….
To begin with, filmmakers themselves need to start taking some sort of interest in the DVD releases of their films. Actually let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. They first need to start by taking a keener interest in the subtitling.
Let’s look at “Omkara” as an example. The film has absolutely phenomenal dialogues, but they are massacred by the horrendous subtitles. In fact “Omkara” is better than a lot of other films that are simply sent to the NFDC blindly where some guy sits and subtitles the film literally word to word. Subtitling is an important procedure that needs to be treated as if one were re-writing the screenplay in English.
Once our filmmakers get this nailed, they can actually move forward to the bonus materials on the DVD and really contribute to it. For most filmmakers in India, once the theatrical release is done with, they wash their hands off the project. As long as money pours in, they are not bothered.
As for the financial aspect of creating the bonus features - they are dirt cheap to produce. Dish the assignment off to your AD’s on set and they will work on it for free! But the fact is, the passion is not there to do such things. There is no pressure because everyone knows that if we as an audience liked a movie, we will pay $20 for the DVD regardless of whether or not it has bonus features.
= Vijay, if that’s the way sub titles are handled then a lot of the true impact of the movie is lost on an audience that does not speak the language in which the movie is made in… Further… won’t this diminish a movie’s chances of winning at foreign festivals/award ceremonies like the Oscars… and that’s my beef too with the subtitles of South Indian movies… the true juices are lost in translation as a result I have quite often found a movie to be just about average, though its highly spoken off by other cine-fanatics…
Oz,
Do other films in other languages have subtitles? Well, I guess some might not have them (sorry, I said Indian DVDs because none of the copies I have provide them) but the copies I have of “Wilbur wants to kill himself”, “Dolls” or “Les choristes” (to name a few) have Spanish subtitles for the additional features.
It is so frustrating!
I don’t remember any in my collection not having them but I am not 100% sure.
t!
Glad to know you feel the same about it! You are so right about some songs lacking subtitles too!!! So annoying! ~X(
No distributor for Indian films in Spain I am afraid, t! The copies I am talking about are the ones I get from Eros, etc as well.
Do you think the letter writing campaign would work?
Vijay,
I completely agree about the horrendous subtitles. Some DVDs claim to have Spanish subtitles and you could not believe how bad they are! I mean, they are grammatically incorrect to start with! There is not a single DVD from the ones I’ve got with decent Spanish subtitles apart from DCH. The rest of them were so unbearable that I always ended up watching the English subtitles. Need I say more?
Monica,
Most Indian DVD distributors like DEI, Ayngaran, Rapid Eye Movies, Video Sound, Eros, B4U, Asian Video get their DVDs authored by Prasad labs, who is doing their best with the material provided to them when it comes to authoring these dvds.
I believe subtitling extra features on a Bollywood DVDs will have to take a backseat for now unless customers come back with a demand and justify the production cost for subtitling extra features. Maybe then you can also become the overseas agent and earn some big bucks while you are at it.
Monica, they need to get to a fairly respectable level with English subtitles first! Then we can at least start thinking about Spanish subtitles.
Oz, DVD subtitling for South Indian movies are the worst! Check out the subtitles on the Kandukondain Kandukondain DVD. They were done by the DVD company Ayngaran. Frightening! I have watched Kandukondain on a subtitled print, which Rajeev Menon translated himself. Very nicely done indeed. When the work has already been done, why did the DVD company not use those subtitles instead? Simple. The filmmakers simply did not bother following up on the DVD release. He washed his hands off the project once it was out of the theaters. No communication. Sad.
My fiancee in fact worked as an AD for one of the top Tamil directors. Since she speaks excellent English and Tamil, she was asked to take over the subtitling of one of his films. She told me that pretty much everyone in that crew simply assumed that subtitles always had to be literal translations, word to word. According to them, that’s what subtitling meant. She was shocked that the concept of intelligible translations just doesn’t exist.
In the west, subtitling is almost considered an art form, something that is assigned to film scholars and accomplished writers and linguists. In India, its not about who does it best, its about who does it cheap and fast. Heck, send it over to me. I’ll do it for free.
= M
Oz, most of the scripts in Mumbai are written in English because most of the actors and actresses can’t read Hindi. Even the dialogues are written in Latin script, but read out in Hindi.
Anurag wrote the Hindi dialogues for Yuva. Not sure of the subtitling.
Incidentally, the Mani Ratnam DVDs have fairly decent subtitles. Aayutha Ezhuthu, Iruvar, Kannathil Muthamittal. They could have been a lot more impactful, but at least they were gramatically correct and cohesive.
I have another gripe about subtitles, and a couple of you here have heard me work through this over the last few months - so I apologize for being redundant.
When I watch movies in Spanish, I am often appalled at the bad subtitles. I think part of the problem with creating good subtitles is that a person can only read so many lines at a time on the screen, and if I remember my adult learning theory correctly, we can speak 500 words per minute, correctly hear about 120, and read a fraction of that, meaning that it is impossible to create literal translations for the audience, it is too many words for the average person to process.
There are two versions of Y Tu Mama Tambien floating around. One has HORRIBLE subtitles, one has good ones. Good doesn’t mean literal-word -for-word, but it means that you get a very good idea of the nuances of the film. The horrible one made me cry as the basic conversations that drove the plot and underscored the relationship were - missing. This is only one example.
Not all subtitling in the west is done well, I have a list of my favourite bad examples. But, with my rudimentary understanding of Hindi, and my cadre of translators, I know that it is better here than there…
Vijay: “In the west, subtitling is almost considered an art form, something that is assigned to film scholars and accomplished writers and linguists.”: I’ve seen enough terrible subtitles on Bollywood DVDs to justify that broad generalisation (:d
As an example of the “art form” that subtitling can take, I’d offer the Criterion Collection release of Kurosawa’s Throne of Blood that sported not one but two separate sets of subtitles.
Examples of bad/terrible subtitles for Indian (specifically Hindi) films are rife:
1. subtitles which include profanity that makes the source dialogue seem tame in comparison /:) ["saalo.n" became "bastards" in Rang De Basanti]
2. English subtitles for English dialogue that take a life of their own (in Shrabani Deodhar’s Pehchaan “acts like a drug on the brain” gets subtitled as “astra-block in the brain”; in Shirish Kunder’s Jaan-E-Mann “I like self-made men” becomes “I like good manners”)
3. Absolute howlers: “ye kitaab mai.nne chaar baar pa.Dhii hai” in Kunder’s Jaan-E-Mann becomes “I’ve read Picasso”; a stray subtitle in Pokiri that referred to “sex straved vampires”; the lyric “ek lailaa ne dil uchhaalaa hai/saare aalam ko maar Daalaa hai … haaye haaye re cha.Dhaa (etc etc) nashaa nashaa nashaa” in Aan: Men at Work gets subtitled as “one juliet has offered her heart/she has killed the whole atmosphere … hey, the inebriation has taken effect.”
4. Surreal subtitles (what do you make of “0618 10:46:5:12 10:46:54:00″ seen in Shikhar?)
Makes you wonder if Tyler Durden’s behind all this …
Monica, Thanks for putting this in open. Couldn’t agree more. And t!, your observation is spot on. Now, ponder this! The extra features apart, most of the Hollywood movie DVDs released in AU have no subtitles even for the main feature - you heard it right - me a proud owner of a two-disc *special edition* of Reservoir Dogs with no subs.
Watch your aussie, young people! We play with bummerangs!
[...] Additional features?! Additional features?! 09 January Monica 02:42 pm Add comment 4 Views I don t get it. I just don t get it. Would someone kindly explain it to me… [...]
Monica, this is something a few of my friends have often complained about too, I suggest you writing to the distributors etc regarding this matter, surely they will do something about it (well we live in hope)
George - If you really want to see some hilarious subtitles, watch “Agnivarsha”. The movie is bad enough to begin with, but the subtitles really take the cake. There’s stuff in the subs that aren’t even spoken in the film! Like Raveena talks about her getting old, but the subtitles read something like “my breasts have begun to sag”. And when Milind Soman says something like Main us raakshas ka vinaash kar doonga, it reads “I’ll squish his balls in my bare hands”.
As for profanity being tamed, the saddest example is the Satya DVD where everytime someone says Bhadwa or Chutiya, the subtitles read “rascal”. I’m like come on! DVD subtitles dont go through the censor board.
@ Vijay:
where some guy sits and subtitles the film literally word to word. Subtitling is an important procedure that needs to be treated as if one were re-writing the screenplay in English.
So there is actually someone sitting and subtitling! I would have thought they were automatically translated. The sort of horrible stuff one would get when trying to translate a page using Google translator.
Monica, they need to get to a fairly respectable level with English subtitles first! Then we can at least start thinking about Spanish subtitles. .
Yes, I know, Vijay, and I agree; but my point was that if they are going to advertise on the DVD cover that there is the Spanish subtitle option, at least they should make sure they are decent ones first, otherwise they can save themselves the trouble!
She told me that pretty much everyone in that crew simply assumed that subtitles always had to be literal translations, word to word. According to them, that
Great topic Monica!
I guess the topic is more or less covered here, but its not only dvd’s that get it wrong. Cinema’s do too!!
And terribly at that!
I have lost count how many times i have sat through a hindi film subtitled in english and thought ‘Hang on..thats not what he/she said’!!
Sadly i cant think of any examples just yet but man, there have been soooooo many films which have had this problem.
But after reading above, i’ll definitely check out ‘Agni Varsha’!!:d
And yes, translating from hindi to english is understandable.. but providing subs for english dialogue in a hindi film and still getting it wrong is a little concerning!!
All i have to say to the guys providing the subtitles is ‘Aye saalo..teri maa ka..’ which, translated in English would be ‘Hello there..rather warm today isn’t it’!=))
Being a techie, I had even bigger idea and I was discussing this with my buddy a week or two back.
How cool it will be if we can select the spoken language on a DVD, without the real dubbing. So i’m talking about translating from one language to another, using a software, in the actor’s voice and maintaining their expression!!
Its technically very difficult when I start to go into nitty-gritty of it but this is my dream project!!
Now that will sort your problem too, Monica!
= At times a serious film can “seriously” turn into a comedy thanks to the subtitles… In one of the telugu movies I watched on DVD a few weeks ago had Venkatesh saying to the heroine - as per the subtitles - “My heart swimming in love as the sparrows going tweet tweet” - what the hell!!!
DVDs should be without subtitles or matter of fact.. movies showing in cinema also should be without subtitles. it spoils the viewing for me. last time i went to see LRM in cinema and subtitle was on, and it just irked me.
i don’t wanna read; i wanna see.
I’m with you, HG. I get distracted by subtitles and I start to read more than watch but sometimes they’re handy.
you said it, oz. they’re so crappy at times..
the other day I was watching a movie with Gujarati subtitles and I was laughing my head off. I couldn’t understand or read all of it but whatever i gathered, cracked me.
anyway, on lighter note, some old skools Indian Film DVDs have advertisements in middle of a scene!
Hero is just about to sing a song with the Heroine and bang, #”Vicco Turmeric Ayurvedic Cream! Tvacha ki raksha karey, antiseptic cream”
And some soaps ad.
Indian Film DVDs could have been worst - you know, with how much Indians love sponsors, so just be content with what….
Honhaar, but thanks to subtitles in cinema’s, we’re getting more non asians watching indian films.
And it benefits indians who dont understand hindi very well too.
I did have that problem for a while, but i can switch off to a large extent now.. well, better than before.
By the way, I’ve found ‘Paanch’ on cd!!
But your in LOndon aren’t you??
Its in Wolvo….any good for you??
subtitles on DVD’s should be optional, but tehy definitely should have them!
I’m one of those who watches daily tv soaps etc with subtitles! I can’t for the life of me stand watching them without .. I prefer to read what’s going on
Unlike some I can read and listen :p
If it weren’t for subtitles, Dil Chata Hai would have never played on American Television (Turner Classic Movies). I would have never paid attention to Indian film. I would not be here.
It would be a sad world if the only movies that I can watch are in English, Spanish, or French, as those are the only languages I can speak. Subtitles are a necessity!!!!
WB = I laughed at your comment about no subtitles! My first smart-ass thought was, why do you need subtitles? Isn’t English the only recognized language in your country?
Then, I thought, why do you need subtitles? I know very little about Australia, the different cultures, and different languages spoken there…Although I can give you the statistics on every major surfer Aussie surfer
In Europe and North America, it is law or smart (depending on circumstances) to have subtitles. What are the politics/economics of this where you are?
but subtitles ARE optional!! and we can listen and read .. its trying to catch all the expressions and reading at the same time, is what i was on about, superwoman :p
anyway, on telly, i keep subtitles on, too.
Windmill - I manage to catch the picture and subtitles perfectly :p
= Hit me if you will, but when I first came to the US, I would have the damn “English for the hearing impaired” switched ON even for television so I could get to understand what the hell the newsreader was saying in his/her Americanized English… Yes English subtitles for an English show. It took me a year to switch the Subtitles for television off. Entire episodes of Friends, Will and Grace, Frasier and many more were watched with subtitles ON…
you guys say cinema is an universal language, but you guys want subtitles for a film…… to understand. Ain’t that a bit of contradiction? What am I missing?
Anyway, how did Satyajit Ray had a lot of non-asian followers? I presume in those day there weren’t any subtitles facilities, were there? :-w
i bet not many people know the story of “Crouching Tiger..”, but they loved the movie
sangeeta - i already declared you superwoman.. what more do you want? here - ^:)^^:)^
happy now?
HG - acting/action is the universal language but the spoken language? we need to understand that to get the full intensity of what is being potrayed - don’t you think? its just like gravy on top - you can have meal without it too if you prefer.
@ Windmill,
How cool it will be if we can select the spoken language on a DVD, without the real dubbing. So i
abeh monica, you speak hindi very well, you don’t need subtitles
and windmill, yeah i getcha what you saying.
Monica, marry my darling dopey and who needs subtitles ey
Honhaar, even if I tried very, very hard I couldn’t possibly understand an Indian Sesame Street, yaar! :((
Sangeeta!
Monica, it makes sense \:d/
Sangeeta! Can’t you hear the great big ‘naaah’ coming from London? :-j
“most of the scripts in Mumbai are written in English because most of the actors and actresses can
// t! - Why not? Subs are desirable - especially when you live in an apartment which has the TV against a sheetrock wall which’s shared by your neighbour, and more so when your movie marathon runs are scheduled late nights.
// Monica - I have never come across and Indian DVD with Hindi subtitles for the hearing impaired. Why is that? The Incredibles DVD my kid has, has subs in Hindi. The Bluff Master DVD I watched had subs in hindi as well.
@ wb
The Bluff Master DVD I watched had subs in hindi as well.
Oh, right! The copy of Bluffmaster I’ve got doesn’t, so I guess it might depend on the region… And maybe all DVDs in India have them whereas those aimed at the markets outside India don’t?
//Monica - I am sure the region/market has something to do with it. I also own a copy of El Mariachi with Hindi subs.
//t! - I reckon the NTSC ones always have subs where as with the PAL versions it’s optional. My definition of being Aussie - two words: Mate & Vegemite! Oy! Oy!