an honest view on love today…
cant stop laughing my ass off, reading the reviews of love aaj kal on tv shows, and here, our very own pfc…pfc, where people watch international cinema, want indian cinema to grow in quality…pfc, where people are too smart, to let mediocre stuff pass by, are too cool to let drama touch them…well here is what an ignorant un cool film maker like me thinks off the movie…
1) the biggest critic i read off the movie is that its not as good as jab we met…bluntly, any true film buff would know, comparing one film to another is not only stupid and knaive but, also irresponsible if one calls himself a film buff…can a godfather be compared to a tetro? before sunset to fast food nation?rang de basanti to delhi 6? well, if u do, then maybe it might be cool…but does not qualify as having the intentions to appreciate cinema as progressive not only absolutely but comparitively…
2) again, i guess its cool to bash someone like saif and deepika who give a smash out performance…never loud, never over the
top…sitting in the theatre, one felt as one knew these characters, that one saw them one the streets and coffeeshops of mumbai…in the age of orkut and facebook and options, these characters were as believeable as they can be…i found their chemistry cracking, making me delighted and longing for more…deepika, who is blamed for being wooden, to a bad actor shocked me by her sensitivity…in the scenes where she does not have dialogues, where she just looks and stares, she was amazing and without a doubt imtiaz had a lot to do with it…being a film maker and a film buff, i can imagine how hard it is to do that…to control the performance and each and every expression in every scene and shot, to make sure it comes out just right…i, being ignorant and uncool, would rather love what i get on screen and hope that films like these would end the characterless stupid idiotic love films made till now, rather then act cool and say ”i have seen so much better on lumiere and world movies”…cause its stupid of me to compare them, as i know, what freedom film makers in europe and america have, and how much troubles imtiaz have, to come out and make something brave as this…
3) ”it was so yash raj” is what the knowledgeable here say…lets face it… their production values are good…is that a crime??did the locations and art production of characters in movie lak look out of place??or is it the fault of cinematographer to make the movie look beautiful that big a crime?? is working hard and achieving perfection in every shot, if its he lighting or performances that big a fault…what happened about appreciating honest hardwork?? i guess its too boring…
4) was i the only one who was amazed at the amazing creative screenplay of the movie??was i the only one who loved the song ”main kya hun” in which the whole character of saif who dreams to live in america assuming thats where he will get happiness and then how his illusion of happiness is crumbled, all explained in just one song??how many people we know who go through the same thing abroad?? living in an illusion of materialistic happiness and visualise that happiness is in the destination and materialism rather then being truely happy? was i the only one who thought that the screenplay, which played in a way that whenever you expect a character to do something like in a conventional love story, in the world of imtiaz, he does exactly the
opposite…like when meera(screen name of deepika) calls jai(saif) to meet during marriage and then its only saif who speaks in the whole shot amazingly innovative…if noticed, beautiful screenplays almost always in romance movies, end up similarly…its how though, they get from one point to another which differentiates it from the rest… was i the only one who thought, that was the only movie to come in a long time, besides mendes’s revolutionary road to touch the real soul of love as it is today,if there is anything like love at all…the feeling of love, loss and loneliness and the realization of fakeness of materialistic happiness and illusions of it are washed out naked by the script…
5) one of the most hillarious critic i heard of the film was, the song in the opening with images from the climax, is confusing and looses effect…is it just me who felt that when same thing is done by alejandro gonzales or alfonso cuaren then its considered innovative, but here its confusing…anyways, i wonder why dont many people see how imtiaz tried to set a mood of despair by putting that song in beginning, how he chose to do it innovatively rather then put it in the pre climax which 99per film makers would do, he tried to again do a first…he created characters which see, act and look like us…no, but we watch many films, so for us better is the rishi kapur story rather then ironically, looking at us in the mirror…agreed that it was a beautifully crafted unspoken lovestory which is set in the past but it was a subplot, to enhance and explain the stupidity of the actual love story of jay and meera… i can go on and on but am busy actually making movies rather then speaking shit so got to sign off… penultimately, well there are those who speak cool stuff and engage in heavy vocabulary to thrash a movie…but i am a normal filmbuff and trying to be a film maker…and as that, i feel a sense of responsibility…when i saw lak i felt happy, that now there will finally be characterisation, innovation and true romance in indian romantic films…i choose to be uncool. and appreciate the immense hardwork, courage and creativity displayed by imtiaz, cause i know its easy to sit in a 10-5 job and thrash a movie…its another to make movies with conviction and courage which oozes beauty…its silly to compare a movie, it can only be judged on its own individualistic merit…hope such movies pave way for many others like me, to carry the creativity to the next level…
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Personal opinion- I think PFC should be a little choosy about who should be allowed to review movies- based on their command over the chosen language. This SMS language does not go down very well with people like me who expect a crisp narrative. It does not have to be flowery. Basic should be just fine. Please set a standard here. Thank you.
Regarding the movie- I did not find anything special in it. It bordered on average. But that’s just my opinion. And I ain’t no pro when it comes to analyzing a movie. I have often liked movies that everyone else did not. And have been disappointed in ones that came highly recommended. Each to his own. One just can’t make a movie that appeals to each one of the billions of people.
@Chintan86,
I hope you realise the importance of keeping your emotions to yourself. With your punctuation-less English, you hinted at immaturity on the part of the so-called “cool” PFC bloggers, in criticizing the movie. The only thing I can say from your review is that I can smell the same immaturity from you. To quote you, if you are “busy making movies rather than speaking shit”, do us all a favour and refrain from speaking shit.
And I don’t have to see Love Aaj Kal to say this.
Way to go! The Crusader!
In hindsight, Chintan86 probably personifies the people that LAK is meant for. His ‘knaive’rant is the PFC equivalent of Ed Wood. Heck it’s horrible, but worth a laugh.
But honestly, I couldn’t go beyond the first point he tried to make.
Can we have reviews in proper English please ?
And What’s a Knaive ? A cross between knife and naive ? Stooped reading after that.
I meant stopped reading after that. Can’t stoop so much.
Or if not proper English, can you atleast get some basic lessons from ~uh~ in drawing elaborate Bubble diagrams of brainless movie scripts ? It’s an art form, to wax eloquent over non-existent plot lines & half baked characters. Learn it from the master(s)
Anything brainless HAS to be in an art form, else how will people remember it ?
You should know
most idiotic climax from imtiaz ……as if lost the plot and wanted to end the movie….salute u chintaan for liking the movie way to go…for u ‘dil bole hadippa’ would be a block buster with supposedy even better prod. values and trust me rani can act better the woodipika…still think socha na tha was best from imtiaz even with simple prod values bcoz u know what it had a thing going for it….n what was it….THE STORY
its ok uh..got what u meant the first time,you did not need to correct yourself man..sure people here are smart enough to understand the idea which is important, rather then the language in which the idea is delivered..all the best guys..
Chintan, if you call yourself an aspiring film maker, you of all people, should understand the importance of the language in which the story idea is delivered. The story might be great but if you narrate it in an insipid manner, do you expect your audience to be smart enough to understand the idea and appreciate it based on JUST this one fact? Come on!! How you say it is more important than what you meant to say.
I disagree. Your review puts me off with spelling mistakes and errors. Putting…..after…..every……word….doesn’t make good reading.
It simply sucks.
All the best to you.
chintan- I think you spoke from the heart and highlighted some things that the movie did well…the part about how Imtiyaz manages to surprise the audience even by staying within the conventional genre…the editing was definitely top notch and added the drama to the narrative which was otherwise subdued…
I don’t think that Saif and Deepika gave smashout performances though…I think Giselle Rebeiro and Rishi Kapoor deserve honorable mentions instead…
just like the extra ‘k’ you used in naive , your review tries to be extra ‘cool’ and falls flat . first of all , what is your problem with other opinion . speak for yourself . thats what a review is supposed to be and not telling people how to review. second which book did you read which said that two movies should not be compared, you read that here on pfc only ..if a movie invites comparison , can a reviewer leave it just like that ….if you see love aaj kal there are many scenes which remind one of jab we met so whats the reviewers fault . third when reviewing one doesnt really keep in mind what all cinema one is exposed to . if love aaj kal disappointed some people here including myself , thats just like an average common man .
was not gonna reply to any replies but cant help replying to this post arti..what pisses me off is that vocab is given so much importance here…after about 11 days pfc will be full with praises for kaminey, or i hope so..but having heard vishal bhardwaj so many times in interviews, he makes vocab mistakes so many times…does that effect his genius at what he does??by language if u mean the language of cinema i agree..its impt..the uh guy here wrote one line trying to get at me and he made a vocab mistake, but thats ok, cause what he was trying to say is more impt and we got that…but we need to look beyond vocab and see how powerfull the idea and passion of people really is…i wrote this post in a span of 5mt in a fit of anger and inspite of knowing that i made a couple of vocab mistakes i did not correct it…cause i know people here, or thought so, would appreciate ideas and passion more…the guy who made pfc famous, whose last movie dev.d was a big hit, when he came to mumbai, was not good at english, if i am not wrong…did that make him a bad writer or director…someone here wrote saying i will like that hadippa shit movie…i laughed again…we love to bracket people, put them off, i guess…gives us a sense of superiority…i said about good prod uction values of lak as i believe that cannot be held against a person…ironically, that in a way is also the vocab, in film terms…impt is the idea…and its the idea and soul of lak which i liked and found invigorating…everyone is entitled to an opinion, i would be hypocritical if i dont agree that…but maybe my definition of a moviebuff is different…having just started to work in films here, i can imagine how brave imtiaz is to make this, so its his bravery above all which i appreciate…anyways thx for all opinon guys..i got to learn some, and got reaffirmed on some stuff i guess..
bhai..bhasha aur shabd gyan hi nahin hai to kya camera aur actor se film banaoge…bhasha to pahla upkaran hai abhivyakti ka…ab yah nahin samjh pao,to kisi se angrezi mein anuvad karwa kar samjh lena chintan86 babu…
Exactly what Ajay said. He’s comfortable with Hindi, he uses Hindi and that was my point. Use any langauge- they are all superb in their own right. But use it properly. Language is a beautiful form of expression. Use it wisely and with the respect that it commands. Don’t roger it. If you’ve been given the honour of being an author on PFC, we expect some kind of exclusiveness in the rhetoric. You can post all that you want in the comment section, oblivious of any mistake. No one has the right to correct you there. But as an author, yes. Imagine opening a newspaper where the grammar is all wrong, the punctuation haywire, the diction upside down. I hope you get my point. I wasn’t being derogatory. If Vishal Bhardwaj is not comfortable with English, I will respect him more if he talks in Hindi. I don’t know why people think that it is more ‘hip’ to talk in English. Hindi is a mellifluous language. If you prefer that, DO IT. One small example- Rakhi Sawant. The girl makes a mess of English yet she chooses to make a laughing stock out of herself by using it. Is there any shame in talking in Hindi? Not at all. Not even a little bit. I just wish more people understood that.
Since you started this whole debate on language, I am copy pasting my earlier comments, as it just suits here more:
Language and grammar represents a set of rules that we as cultural beings have created to communicate with each other in a society and purely for our ease. And these are to be treated such, as a set of rules! If you want to bound by it, good enough, if you don’t, good enough too. As pronunciation is often colloquial, writing is often colloquial too. As long you are able to communicate everything else is redundant. It pains me, how the comments in this section are about the writer’s writing skills and not about the material. He has all the right to write in a anyway he wanted (PFC did not have any criterion either). Are all the commentators here realizing that by writing such, you are in a way making this website exclusive to people who can write good English (any other language)/grammar while alienating other people? That is so not ‘cool’!
Also what happens if, hypothetically, someone is not good in Hindi too or say any other written script? Would he/she looses the right to express him/herself? The question is not the language, the question is if someone is not a language connoisseur, is it right to take away his/her viewpoints? I think not. And yes, you have to remember their viewpoint is as important as yours even with broken English/Hindi/any other language.
Just to add, I think we should stop looking down upon people who don’t follow the norms taught in our archaic schools/ college system. We ’should’ do/write like this, why, because Wren and Martin said so!!
Just do me favor and listen to some Gulzar songs and tell me which language he uses?
Language is important, but not more than the message. Break some rules, it will feel really good.
Tulika, you are missing the point. I am not stopping anyone from expressing his/her view points even if that person is gramatically or pedantically challenged. They are free to do so anywhere in the comment section. But as a PFC author, one must maintain a standard. How difficult is that to understand? Going by your logic, even the newspapers should allow such SMS language. But do they?
Music breaks the language barrier. It is above any language differentiation. You’re making a hash of things and missing the moot point.
Having said that, I am putting an end to this conversation.
@Arti : And who decides this standards? You/ someone who thinks who knows the ’standards’ or the Newspaper editors? Gate keeping is a long gone/going concept, you should let that go too!!
Having said that, I am NOW putting an end to this conversation.
Forget Chintan, he’s got the right to write as much as I have the right to read ,what baffles me as to how this review went through PFC’s screening process.
And frankly there are far too many reviews of Love Aaj Kal on this site, I understand the democratic nature of this forum but this is just too much, I think we need a different approach as far as movie reviews are concerned.
@sags..dude i wish i could be cool man..but that is one accusation i can defend man..m not trying to be cool as i can never be or do that..again, i dont need to read anything to know that films should not be compared…everyone should have a voice and an opinion, and i respect that..there were no of articles tearing down lak, as they felt like it…and i liked it,so posted my own little review…not being pretentious man…hope i spelled all words in this and last message right man…or else thats what everyone will focus on…chao..
hahahahaha…
Chintan, u start off by blasting those who compared JWM with LAK, but your praise for the movies too tries to compete with the criticism for the movie..hahahahaha.. shayad loha hi lohe ko kaatta hai…
If you want to praise, praise it unabashedly.. Dont try to compete with the critics of the movie..
I could not read your review completely.. was too full of yourself instead of the the movie and was too bitchy..such things put me off..
Vineet, you got it right absolutely with the second sentence.
Too many reviews. Just too many. And I still see some in the pending-review section. Sure we need a different approach, as far as reviews of latest releases are concerned. We do not need this many!
Believe me I am sick with all these reviews( THOUGH, frankly, as a writer, I enjoyed reading each one of them, coz of the rich language and the style).
I guess KI,SC and LAK together got around fifty reviews, sorry for the exaggeration in the numbers..Come on, are these movies really worth splitting so much hair over?
Bald men don’t look good, Mind you:D
What are we trying to prove?
That we are a team of crusaders against typical mediocre fare?
That our tastes are vastly refined and superior?
Let’s channel our skills towards something better and more enlightening. We have many many ppl here who are more than capable..That’s precisely why I value and love PFC soooo much..
I posted this same comment somewhere else on PFC too.. Hope someone sits up and takes notice.. :(
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And Chinthan – Yeah, words and grammar are never really important.Spot on.As far as I am concerned I got the ideas what u tried to say.
But the problem is, the readability. Many a time I wondered
-whether lak was lakh or LAK
-whether a sentence had ended (coz there weren’t any Capitals or full stops..)
Its similair to how, we dont like to watch a CD of a movie, if its a horrible print. Your article was like a camera print of
A GOOD MOVIE on a bad CD. Maybe that’s why some people gave some vicious comments..Hope I got the point clear..
@rahul…point taken man…i dont think i will be writing here again as i dont want to degrade the level of pfc, as suggested by many here…guess this place too intellectual for idiots like me…but if by chance i dare to write again, then will keep your suggestion in mind…thx rohan…and azad,if i write the whole review here, then for sure pfc will loose all its prestige as so many here agreed on man..so dont worry man, i wont be posting here again…
Oh oh.. I didn’t mean it that way. See it is very evident that you can write good english, jst a small phrase like “but if by chance i dare to write again” says that!
And that is the main reason why you can try to be a bit careful in the presentation. I remember my english teacher giving me 4 out of 30 for my essay, (which must have been good coz i lifted it from readers digest :D), coz my handwriting was shabby. Same thing goes here.
So keep writing again
4 out of 30 for an essay which you thought was good?? Ha ha…was it because she couldn’t decipher anything at all?? Crawling ants!!
Rahul,
Like a newspaper tries to cater to all segments of the society, so should a public forum. There should be something for everyone. Those who reviewed the movies felt like they had something to say. Just like you and me conversing in the comment section. You didn’t like SC, I loved it to bits. You don’t want to lose your hair over it, don’t. But there are unpteen people out there who do.
So we just have to accept the fact that we’re all different people, with different tastes and views. And we need to express our feelings. It could be for a movie, for a film festival, a personal memoir, gossip, inside story etcetera etcetera. I would probably wring my nose over something that you rave and rant about. Don’t be condescending. Accept the diversity- within a certain decorum of course!
arthi.. I didnt mean to be condescending. But Just wondered whether too many reviews were there..thats all..
srry if i sounded that way..coz its something that I hate- being condescending..
HEy chintan liked ur review abt d song, wer only in a single song d whole idea is mentioned, also dipika remainigh silent in some scenes was terrific, she spoke thru her xpressions, i really think u hv reviwed s film frm ur heart
@chintan u spelled ciao as chao ..but i m absolutely fine wid bad english and bad spellings ..i do that all tda time , what i am offended by are your views on other people’s opinion when you are writing a review ..dont call it a review thats all. write your on view on the film thats all i would say .and if you have views on someone else’s views then use the comments option instead.
I came out of the theatre who’s is she? who is Harleen Kaur? She was good, her expression were fantastic, her dance moves though were little awkward, but she played her character ver convincingly, and I google for her. This actor is Giselle Monteiro, a Brazilian. read it for more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4847671.cms
I agree with most who suggested a standard language for movie reviews. If you don’t have a good presentation, who will buy your ideas or arguments? No need of a hi-fi vocabulary, in fact, simple words with good presentation will draw more readers.
@chintan, do not get offended.
chintan i agree with u on all the points you made in your review. as far as the language is concerned, i dont hav a problem. bhai sms ke zamane mein sms angrezi nahi likhoge to kia likhoge? … /// … ;) …
Language and grammar represents a set of rules that we as cultural beings have created to communicate with each other in a society and purely for our ease. And these are to be treated such, as a set of rules! If you want to bound by it, good enough, if you don’t, good enough too. As pronunciation is often colloquial, writing is often colloquial too. As long you are able to communicate everything else is redundant. It pains me, how the comments in this section are about the writer’s writing skills and not about the material. He has all the right to write in a anyway he wanted (PFC did not have any criterion either). Are all the commentators here realizing that by writing such, you are in a way making this website exclusive to people who can write good English/grammar while alienating other people? That is so not ‘cool’!
am extremely sorry to tulika,vivek, amir, rahul…i did not want to make this forum about english teaching which sadly others have turned it into…to be honest to u guys, i can write in english fine…i could have spent 10 mts more and could have turned the article into ”gramitaclly correct article”…but i thought this place was more about movies then language…i find it silly to reply to everyone’s comments, cause there was a time when i used to be a kid in a small town, reading articles of people i really admired on pfc…the mistakes they used to make did not matter to me at all…so i thought it will be the same for the rest, who will prefer to concentrate on the content…anyways, to be honest, this incident is metaphorically, similar to the way many people in many different industries, and more so,in bollywood work…i have been witness to so called good speakers phasing out insultingly, others who are more passionate and creative, tough not be as good speakers…hopefully though its changing…anyways sorry to all those who think this post has turned into debate about language…and to the rest,i will just say,guys dont worry,i dont plan to write here much so dont need to worry…pfc is safe from degrading its high language standards and qualitative content…tc..
dude dont give up so easily… AK said to surivive u hav to b very Stubborn, Be Extremly Unreasonable and Keep Working… cheers !!!
@rahul…dude,responses here are not the reason i said m not gonna send posts here…i log onto pfc rarely only to check if couple of authors i admire have written anything…hopefully i will be able to torture everyone here even more by making a film one day, if i ever get to that is…thx anyways bro..tc..
Unfortunately less discussion on the opinion about the movie and more on language – most of the vitriol probably in response to the comments on pfc wallahs. Anyway guys, just his liking the movie does not deserve ridicule. People have varied choices – lets respect everyone’s right to an opinion; nobody’s forcing it down our throats. I thought the movie was not bad at all, have met loads of people who liked it and some ‘certified’ critics have actually liked it too – Rangan Bharadwaj, Nikhat Kazmi, Taran Adarsh – the whole range, don’t remember the last time these three agreed.
THESE DEBATES LEAD NOWHERE. NO ONE IS WILLING TO BUDGE AN INCH FROM THEIR STANCE, NOR IS ANYONE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE OTHER’S POINT OF VIEW. I DONT’ KNOW WHY WE HAVE THESE FORUMS TO BEGIN WITH?
I think most of the people here are confused about a “counter view” and “quality of a view”, in fact going by the comments most of the people here do not seem to know the difference between the two.
You have all the right in the world to be critical of something, but your arguments must be built on solid reasoning and logic and not emotions and rhetoric, then there’s the presentation of a view which has to be articulate and crisp rather than being repetitive or derogatory.
Democracy is very enchanting but it does not mean a free for all esp. in a forum like this if you are looking for quality, if you allow everyone to publish whatever is on the back of their mind in PFC then what happens to the quality which separates PFC from any other cinema website.
I am sorry to say this but quality is always elitist, which again is not the same as discrimination lest someone confuse between the two.
Quality is very subjective but again you need to have basic parameters for differentiation, and one of the basic parameters of differentiation is the dedication you put behind an article or an argument in terms of thought process.
To give an analogy ,when we send a resume to some company for a job, we almost certainly run the resume through spell check ten times and then get it peer reviewed to check for defects.
Why do we do it ? Does my qualification multiply if the resume is neat, the reason we do it is because every mistake we make reflects upon us.
Similarly we need to measure every single word we write or type, maybe not as seriously as our resume but at least give it some thought process.
The review in question seems like it was typed out of a mobile phone in under five minutes without any draft. Is this the kind of stuff we are looking forward to seeing in a public forum which gets a thousand hits a day, the choice is yours….
Hi Chintan,
Completely agree with the review. I thought it was a fantastic movie, touched us where it matters the most, the heart. The biggest compliment I can give the movie is that I was jealous of Imtiaz for making a movie which I know most directors are not capable of.
As for Aarti and the likes attacking the language of the review, I think thats where most Indian filmmakers are failing – trying to stick to traditions, expectations and standards in the sms age. If they get beyond this, maybe Indian cinema would move ahead.
@Vineet: Quality is ‘always’ elitist? I am not so sure about your take on this. Who are the elites? Someone who can write good English or follow required formats? I don’t think so. Goes back to the time whn we used to learn in school how to write a letter which used to start with ” I ‘beg’ to state”. Will you write such now? Those were the standards then, there are some standards now, some will follow them and and some will not. But following them does not make anyone elitist actually on the contrary, it shows how dependent they are on set patterns.
The true literates are the unabashed speakers of their mind. Also just a reminder, this forum, we discuss the quality of movies and not English language or for that matter any other language. If this was forum on English/ Chinese/ Hindi literature then yes English/Mandarin/Devnagari was important, but I figure it is not so.
I think the key here is to think beyond words and ‘required’ (by who?) formats..
Language is important, because I am not talking face to face with you, hence I am unable to see or comprehend your body language which makes up 60% of any face to face conversation, and it’s the primary reason why writing styles were standardized eg. letter and e-mail formats.
As far as command over the language is concerned, I agree that not everyone can read/write in English since studying in English medium schools is not a norm in India, but that is not even an issue here, Ajay is an author in PFC and he writes such beautiful articles in Hindi, why can’t people do that, I would have been so much happier.
However the primary issue at stake here is that the ideas presented in this review are at best crude and full of provocation.
as far as the ‘I beg to state’ question is concerned, that argument is out of line, I am not asking anyone to follow any specific format, it’s about how you present your ideas.
So what happens if, hypothetically, someone is not good in Hindi too or say any other written script? Would he/she looses the right to express him/herself? The question is not the language, the question is if someone is not a language connoisseur, is it right to take away their viewpoints? I think not. And yes, you have to remember their viewpoint is as important as yours even with broken English.
Also when you say you are stating/suggesting people
“How to present your ideas” you are definitely asking to follow a set format!
Further, I think you are contracting yourself by saying language is important as you cannot see the other person, by that you mean if you see them then this language is acceptable?
Just to add, I think we should stop looking down upon people who don’t follow the norms taught in our archaic schools/ college system. We ’should’ do/write like this, why because Wren and Martin said so!! Language is important, but not more than the message.
Yes ur rite tuilka…dats y i uz l33t….. in al mah cummunications….
P.S. I had no problem understanding your language and did not notice any errors, grammatical or otherwise either. Thats because I was reading your review with a neutral mind, to enjoy the piece. I think its the same when watching a movie – you either watch it to enjoy it, or you watch it to criticise it. If the latter, every minor shortcoming will jar your sensibilities.
I think 90% of the people who have reviewed the movie here have seen it with their future reviews running concurrently (and ostentatiously) in their heads. They watched the movie to review it, not to enjoy it. And they criticized to it rise above Imtiaz in their writings, which they cannot hope to do in their real lives.
perfect man ,ur last line ,that wit it is ,most of the ppl here criticizing imtiaz or rgv or slb or god knows who else would love to be in there shoes rather than be crtics whole their life but since they cant acheive tht ,they show off by writing in their convent school english ,jisko 90% india samgh nahe sakta
i love this review ,perfect for “normal” ppl like me ,no heavy duty cliche stuff copied from foriegn magazines or hi fi online dictnoires(sry for spelling mistakes)
if vishal bhardwaj would have focused on his english rather than film making school,he would have become a top class critic by now
I looked through all the comments and there’s one thing nobody really stressed upon, so I thought I’d post another comment :
Guys, here’s an author who does not BELIEVE in movie criticism from aira-gaira-s. He feels just because most of us are in “a 10-5 job” and have never had any actual experience in making a movie, we should simply keep our mouth shut. We should leave all film appreciation to guys like him who are actually “busy making movies”. Looking at this article, I was reminded of a movie-loving friend of mine who always started his arguments with :”You did’t understand the first thing about what the movie was trying to say….” If there’s one norm we should stick to here, it’s respect for each other’s views. We can point out things to each other without starting off with “can’t stop laughing my asses off” at the critics(even if we do that, let’s leave it to the comments section). I sincerely believe we are mature enough to do that. Simply put, this author’s article undermines the very essence of this site I so love : that people who speak out their views on movies need not actually be in the film industry, only a passion for cinema is a sufficient qualification.
As for the English, leave aside quality, this entire article was just painful reading. But, I should confess I understood what this author was trying to say — it was simply his condescending tone that pissed me off and led me to point out his inability to write in an organized way. Sorry for whatever remark I made regarding that.
Here we go again … another self-righteous outburst from yet another self-proclaimed movie lover/maker. The only way he can make his point is by criticizing other critics and critiques; he himself has nothing of value to add and his entire argument seems to rest on the fact that he himself is a movie maker. If the creativity of Imitiaz Ali is the high watermark for this writer it speaks very poorly of his understanding/exposure of/to movies.
The problem with “understanding cinema”, like many here claim to, is you lose the ability to objectively view a film like this one and just call it for what it is… !
LAK (and I have not seen it), from the looks of it, is what most films of the genre are – a mediocore film made by a medicore filmmaker with mediocore actors… I bet there’s enough gloss on the surface but lets not kid ourselves… its a “commercial” film whose purpose it to entertain the average Joe and make shit loads of money for the investors… it appears to be doing all of that so is perhaps a very good film like the poster here honestly says
ha ahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahahah
i think movie was not bad but avg and we shd accept that…..
there is no issue when u experiment but u just need to look the amount of dosage per scene yaar.i mean a good story , good screenplay but didnt connect has no mean yaar….
anyways….i think for you movie works..paisa wasool chill..
Tulika, one doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand the basic standards of writing. They are introduced very early on in life. Where I come from, it was instilled in us. And authors all over the world stick to that basic standard. I have a feeling that you’re getting confused between the language to be used by the AUTHORS and the one used by people who post in the COMMENT section.
I bet you wrote your exam paper in incomprehensible language and argued with the examiner ( upon getting a measly score as he couldn’t decipher anything ) saying-’But you understood what I MEANT to say, right? RIGHT? RIGHT? The language here is not the point. My right to express myself is the point!!!’
Okay, first lets not get petty, and second I really thought we ended this debate. But since you wrote back with a very ‘personal’ note, I had to reply.
True, one does not have to be any kind of scientist to understand ’standards of writing’, but one does have to definitely be free spirited enough to refuse to follow the ’standards of writing’. What is making you this upset? That the new kids on the block are not following the rules you mugged to get good marks in the examination? Or now there are new media outlets where anyone, not necessarily educated like you (I am not sure, just assuming that you are), can give their viewpoints? What we did when we were kids, was because we didn’t know better, but what you are doing now is simply incorrigible.
And the newspaper ’standards’ you are talking about, do you really know what is the circulation of an English newspaper in India? And are you sure their standards are not getting diluted over the years. Why don’t you take style sheet of some known newspapers and see over the years the changes they have made. The TV Channels (which have much wider reach) have definitely adopted Hinglish, would you crucify them now?
The beauty of the Internet, is that we don’t have to abide by any standards specially mounted by people, who in their mind think they are better because they have some form of formal education. Its time that we bridge the gap of class and mass. Is that too much to ask or so difficult to understand? By telling everyone to conform to some standards in writing (which is not at all necessary for having ‘Passion For Cinema’), you are actually telling them to do, what you think is the right way or the way you know better than them.
I have this question, does your life really revolve around the marks you got on your exam paper? Is that how you judge yourself and if that is true then there is no point of continuing this debate with you. So I am ending(again) it here and choosing not to reply any of your comments as I know for sure its going to be dirty, and I for one cannot stoop so low (also I have heaps of work to finish).
I will emphasize it once again: Let go of gate keeping!!
Best Wishes
I havn’t followed the entire debate. I saw the last couple of posts only. I would just like to add that although internet have enabled everyone to publish his/her writing, ultimately only the ones who can write properly will get attention.
Certain standards have to be maintained while writing because if everyone starts developing his/her own standards tomorrow no one would understand what the other person is writing.
An argument is an argument. Show me ONE article by ANY author on ANY reputed platform which is not formulated correctly ( adhering to correct grammar ) and I will rest my case. Or better still, try getting this post by the author above printed in ANY newspaper, magazine etc ( in its present state ). And then come back and rebuke.
Your arguments are senseless, childish and devoid of any kind of intelligent repartee. You want to believe what your limited thinking allows you to believe. And this has indeed stretched more than it really should. All the best to you too!!
@Aarti: ‘Show me ONE article by ANY author on ANY reputed platform ‘
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation
Weekly zero punctuation reviews by Ben Croshaw with a huge fan following. The escapist is a reputed online magazine for gamers.
“In his videos Croshaw usually reviews a recent game or games using rapid-fire speech delivery (which was the inspiration for the name ‘Zero Punctuation’, although he states that his fast talking was “by accident””.
He gives VIDEO reviews on that site. His official website is http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/ Take a look at it and tell me what you have to say now. At least do some spade work before posting randomly.
Oh sorry you are still living in the non-video world. Call me when you wake up in this century.
As for spadework, I’ve known Ben for 8 years, before he started those reviews.
Arti, I find it so silly. If you want newspaper-like articles, why not stick to newspapers? why find faults with the way one chooses to express oneself? As for ur oft-repeated comment about how exclusive authors should write, go tell Anurag Kashyap when he says to Khalid Mohammed, “Chutiye, tu retire ho ja, tera time khatam”, on this very site. after all, that wd nt be accepted in any newspaper. why not suggest him to be ‘propah’, Karan Thapar types? Why not suggest Gulzar not to write ‘personal se sawal’? Why not wage a war against the grammar-defying advertising slogans like ‘Dillogical’? What matters is the idea, not the language. If you still aren’t convinced, stick to ‘The Hindu’ or newyorktimes.com. N hope my ‘meestakes’ here wd be forgiven since it appears in the ‘comments’ section.
bonzer what she said wasn’t that we shud be newspaper-like..
Whenever a person presents something, he has to do so in a readable format, that’s all..
Chintan surely could do that with an additional 5 minutes of his time, as he is quite good in english..The language is safe in his hands..
If he does that, it just becomes more readable, much more easier on the eyes. The number of people who get turned off would be less. Some people can’t really tolerate SMS language..I myself cringe when I see ppl telling “Please Cum over” — instead of “Please come over”
I get ur point but taking a cue from ur example, when someone says ‘please cum over”, will u tell him ‘People who want to invite me home should do so in grammatically correct English”, or ‘How come this message get through the screening process of the mobile operator” or “Please spend 2 more mins to correct and resend it.” These examples may sound absurd to u not but then the suggestions thrown up here were equally absurd. Try to get the gist and ‘just go over’ instead of cringeing.
Bonzer, u’r 2 gud. 2 b or 0 2 b is the ? I say mast raho masti mein aag lage Basti mein.
Bonzer, While I agree with your point, the above article is a painful read.
It’s a personal choice mate..
It’s always better to avoid subjectivity..as long as u can..
Lets see some cat-fight pleaseeeee. Dont stop Tulika dn Aarti :-)
Yes, please do keep going…
wow, what responses guys..feel happy and depressed seeing the replies.seeing the post turn into something i totally did not intend it to turn into makes me depressed.but i guess its the irony of the society we live in…anyways amongst the so so many bracketisations and labels people are divided into,specially in our country, hearing of the title ”gramatically or pedantically challenged”, as suggested by the learned ones here, is a first for me.m watching the news as i write this post and i see news of people in parliament fight over deciding what is good or bad on tv, and journalists breaking news of who rakhi sawant is marrying when there are so many human rights violations and problems happening around the world.guess just a perverse truth of the times we live in.nothing is as simple as it used to be like when one used to drive his small bicycle with torn t-shirt under the blue sky and the world ended at the thought of whether the girl on the bicycle next to mine is looking at me or not.things much more complicated now.anyways guys, thanks to all for commenting, till everyone has conviction and rational reasoning behind their arguements, everyone is right.k guys all the best to all.
@Sanjana
.
Do you really think Imtiaz is a ‘mediocre’ film-maker and Saif a mediocre actor? This might be true in the context of LAK, but definitely not per se. Both these artists are have shown streaks of brilliance earlier (Imtiaz: JWM, Saif: Salaam namaste, HumTum), so i would believe they are good (and not mediocre) artists capable of genius as well as mediocrity.
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i personally dont believe at all in the classification of commercial vs xyz (uncommercial?!) forms of cinema..so being popular cinema can never be an excuse for mediocrity..There is good cinema and there is bad cinema..thats the only distiction i believe should be made.
.
hahaha..funny post dude..frstly love aaj kal’s a completely stupid,movie,..imtiaz’s worst..strictly timepass
BUT BUT BUT..
chill man
relax!
take a deep breath!
its ok..u like the film? u LOVE the film?..cool..good for you..no-one’s killing you for that…no world war 3 happening!
go watch it 10 more times for all we the “cool,knowledgable” people at PFC care..HAH!
The over zealous attacks on Chintan’s writing style are uncalled for.
If you don’t like his style, move on to a different piece. There is really no reason to stay & get personal about his language skills… And he most certainly doesn’t need anyone telling him that he’ll never become a good filmmaker because his language skills are inadequate.
It would be unfortunate if PFC ended up being overrun by cultural snobs on a puritanical crusade. I know many filmmakers in our industry who struggle to articulate themselves, but their talent is immense and undeniable.
Language skills have never been guarantors of cinematic skill or passion for the medium. If that were so, film academics would be making the best films in the world. Ever seen a university professor win an Oscar?
Professor Karansher Singh,
Professor Demetri Terzopoulos,
Professor Nels Madsen,
Professor Ron Fedkiw.
A quick google research showed that these were university professors who won Oscars. Don’t know what you wanted to say. You’re all looking at the moot point in a very distorted way. A simple suggestion took a very ugly turn and got hurtled in various directions.
la_dolce_vita,
If someone starts off an article with the phrase-’laughing my ass off’ ,he should be ready to get it smacked too; for his petulance, if nothing else.
And there’s a BIG difference between being a ‘cultural snob’ and having a basic tolerance level for acceptance of written matter.Chintan here doesn’t even know his singular from his plurals.
PFC was started as a forum for connecting between people outside the film industry and those who’re inside. This is not a zit-infested teenage-angst-ridden Blog page. If not the common public, then the reveiwer should at least have some respect for seniors like Sudhir Mishra who sometimes logs on to share his thoughts.
Don’t they deserve a little respect?
Apropos-the univ professor bit:- if you really want to carry this argument further, you should try to keep track of Chintan’s career as a filmmaker and see how far he goes. Try to prove those who’re deriding him wrong. I’m sure everyone would be more than surprised if Chintan and you proved them wrong.
Some points that i saw in the movie:
1: Veer drinks his black tea from th esame glass throughout the movie that harleen had brought to her in kolkata. m not sure abt the last scene though as was too busy watching Neetu ji…:P
2: The same “JEA band” throughout the movie. Near the halwai shop where Veer follows Harleen, in the Chor bazari song and finally when Veer brings Harleen to delhi in the climax.
3: I cant get over the scene when Saif is mugged in San Francisco and he says to himself “Is it you Meera? r u my problem?”. This particular scene is the reason why i m goin to watch this movie again and again. This is when Saif decides that he has to go bak as he n we see that his mango people attitude hasnt left anything to him…..the bloody muggers has even robbed him off the pic of Meera.
come one guys, the grammar of the movie under discussion is infinitely worse than the grammar of the author. the most dramatic part of the movie was Saif’s realisation that everything he wanted is nothing without the Deepika – and thats the bit the movie spends least time over!!! 6-7 cuts in a silly song. do the math, fill in the blanks, we’d much rather show you corny banter and ridiculous surds. yuck.
Saw Love Aaj Kal and didn’t like it at all. It did not touch me, or move me. Except where Harleen brings tea for Veer. Baaki Chaar Paise Ki Pitchar Nahin Hai.
I quite liked Socha Na Tha, loved Jab We Met, and am a big fan of Imtiaz’s writing. The effortless ease, humor, and warmth that we saw in his earlier films, is completely missing here.
Found Love Aaj Kal to be very deliberate, self conscious, plodding, and at times, downright mawkish – like the scene where Rishi Kapoor pesters Saif “Bata, Bata…”. I understand that it is the requirement of the screenplay that Rishi ask Saif, but there are better ways to do it.
And the stupid scene where Deepika tells Rahul Khanna “Main Tumse Baad Mein Maafi Maang Lungi”. The audience broke into ridiculous laughter.
Also, Saif getting bashed up towards the end, the goons tearing Deepika’s pic, and Saif’s great realization “Meera is my problem”. Gawd! What’s going on? And what is this Chen! scene doing in an Imtiaz Ali film?
I think people and critics have been very generous and gone out of their way to say nice things about Love Aaj Kal.
Banta Nahin Hai. Jab We Met Ki goodwill Bol Rahi Hai. Imtiaz Ne Is Baar film Dil Se Nahin, Dimaag Se Banayi Hai. And it shows.
MANOJ, I didn’t know PFC had something against zit infested teenagers who angst!! Plenty of blogs here read angsty enough. Don’t know if the writers are under 17 or have zits – maybe you should insists that everyone who blogs here produces an age certificate & a mug shot while they’re at it – to check the quality of their skin. (waise, in my knowledge a lot of artists start out as angsty teenagers who can’t adjust to the world around them – infact some great artists live out their whole lives never having quite gotten over teenage angst)
And I definitely think that Sudhir Mishra would be more offended by you calling him a senior citizen than by anything Chintan wrote!! (exactly – how does Chintan’s blog disrespect SM? …still scratching my head on this one; is SM allergic to bad syntax?!!) Trust, me Sudhir has seen and heard much worse (p.s. why don’t you tell anurag to go easy on his language as well? I’m sure Sudhir is far more likely to read anurag’s post than Chintan’s, no?!!). So, stop trying to act as language police from your entirely hokey pedestal.
Anyway, sarcasm aside – the point I wanted to make was that people who comment on other people’s blogs should not get personal, especially when it comes to maters of language. We live in a country where english is not most people’s native language but passion for cinema is not affected by that. Moreover, we live in an age where notions of what is or isn’t correct grammar is in constant churn, so really – who made you an authority?!
To see this kind of co-ordinated attack on Chintan for not living upto your tony standards of grammar is disheartening. I would say its against the spirit of democracy & sharing this site stands for. And to add insult to injury – some people even went as far as to say that Chintan’s bad grammar affects what kind of films he ends up making which is quite patently false. (a note to AARTI here – brilliant sleuth work! you found four professors who won Oscars for Sfx, R&D into Animation and creating Motion Capture Cameras. Genius! I’m floored! Next time you hit google… try finding four other professors who won Oscars for something that has vaguely to do with story-telling… that’s what a film-makers job is, innit? story-telling??!)
Infact, I’d go out on a limb and say that a lot of filmmakers because they can’t articulate themselves well through the written or spoken word, manage to find new innovative ways to communicate their thoughts – through filmic language. The malicious unsolicited advice you guys were offering Chintan in the comments stank of a witch-hunt and like all witch-hunts revealed more about the ignorance of the perpetrators than the person being hunted. So, my moot point remains – why couldn’t you just move on to another blog if you disliked Chintan’s style so much?! Really, was that such an effort??
Anyway, I guess you guys won after all. Looking at Chintan’s comments, its seems he has decided to abandon PFC. I just hope that your hating didn’t discourage him for wanting to blog altogether. This is what you wanted, right? Congratulations – You have quality control now. Enjoy your victory – stroke your collective Clearasil tubes, and let your sophisticated liquids fly up in the air and bathe your new zit-free message board.
Can one really argue with someone who does not understand the difference between ’senior’ and ’senior citizen’? Yawn…coffee anyone??
Loved the film and loved your review Chintan86. My views are similar to yours
@ la_dolce_vita,
Your anger
You have managed to vent;
Like they say-
The days of good english
Are truly went.
Bhai saab, yahan to khoon kharaba hua pada hai!