Anatomy of a scene – Sit & Talk – Diner/Cafe/Bar ishtyle
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Dabba (New York, USA)
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Anatomy of a scene – Sit & Talk – Diner/Cafe/Bar ishtyle
Tarantino is the bane of every reader/producer’s existence. Ever since he wrote seemingly casual pop cutlure conversations between people sitting their ass down in a car/diner/bar/restaurant, everyone wants to write cool conversations about great bands or music or movies that they love, and think that it will be funny and charming. NOT.
Most of the time in his movies, these conversations take place between thugs, lowlifes, gangstas or serial killers, and these conversations almost make them human.
It adds a certain depth to their character, and he usually sets the scene when people are on their way to comit mass murder, so the contrast also adds to it, as opposed to freezing the entire movie for the conversation to take place. What makes these scenes work was the fact that it was fresh (not any more), and there was a subtext to them. When you have ordinary people have the same conversations, it’s just lame. I used to think that for the cult of Tarantino to die, he has to write shitty dialogue, because without his dialogue he would have been a video store clerk. I am happy to announce that he has done just that. It’s called Death Proof. That movie had some of the worst writing I have ever seen.
*SPOILER ALERT*
What is that movie about – 45 minutes of girls sitting on cute bottoms and talking about shit while psycho stalks, girls die, another 45 minutes of a different group of girls talking abt shit, also on very cute bottoms, but this time psycho dies. And you can see him trying to desperately make it work, with a roving camera, sexy dance, camera encircling them when they talk (like in reservoir dogs) etc. When the girls talk about sex, and who’s getting any etc., I actually stopped the film to check the credits and see if Seinfeld had written it. It was so lame, so weak, that it was unintentionally funny.
I used to tell people to never write sit and talk scenes unless they were Tarantino and now I can take him off the list too. Don’t write sit-and-talk. But all you non-conformist types are shaking your collective heads, saying “Rules are meant to be broken.” In most good movies, there is that character turning point scene (or atleast there should be) where the protagonist realizes that he’s in shit and he must do something. When done well, these scenes are a plasure to read/shoot/act. This is what the movies are about. This scene. I present to you -
COLLATERAL – Jazz Scene (mega spoiler alert)
This movie is about Max (Foxx). He is the protagonist, an everyman. He is you. He is giving Vince, the assassin (Cruise) a ride for the rest of the night. So far, Cruise has killed two people that Foxx is aware of, but has never directly witnessed. He starts to get the feeling that Vincent is gonna kill him at the end of it. As a subplot, you have a tough cop trying to track down Cruise, and that gives you some hope, that maybe Max will be saved. Max has used his wits twice so far to extricate himself and has failed. Vince, damn near killed him both times. Suddenly Vince has a change of mood, and tells Max they are ahead of their schedule. Let’s go to a jazz club. I have cut and paste the entire scene from one of the later drafts. The scene plays out in the movie almost identically (Don’t use scene numbers etc., in your script. This is a much later version production draft).
This scene with all the subtext of hope, desperation, escalating tension and conflict, is pure magic. So strong is the writing of the scene, that Michael Mann stages it with utter simplicity. The entire scene plays out in mostly static 2 shots, Medium and Close Over-the-shoulder shots. None of that Tarantino encircling-camera assholery. This scene is rather long too. It plays out to about 5,6 minutes which is really long. You can see each character going through their transformation here. As an aside, this scene wasn’t even in the original script that Stuart Beattie wrote. Whene Darabont (Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, The Mist), came on as Producer, he told him…I think this movie needs a jazz scene, and this is the scene Stuart ran off and wrote. Enjoy. Let’s discuss in the comments.
35 INT. “DANIEL’S” JAZZ CLUB – NIGHT
Dark and elegant – in an early ’60’s modern jazz kind of way
with a low ceiling, small tables, leatherette booths, history
soaked into the walls. A BLACK MAN in his late 50’s, DANIEL, is
playing a muted trumpet on stage with a QUARTET.
CUSTOMERS are few, clustered at small tables or at a few curved
leather booths. The walls are lined with FRAMED PHOTOS of
jazz icons.
At one table, we find Vincent and Max. Vincent about the
music…
VINCENT
…a little ’60’s, early Miles thing
happening…
MAX
I never learned to listen to jazz.
VINCENT
You don’t learn to listen…anymore
than you learn to breathe. Open your
ears.
Vincent’s attention’s focused on the music.
MAX
I get a beat. I don’t really hear a
melody…
VINCENT
…he’s off the melody, behind the
notes. Outside what’s expected.
Improvising off impulse. Kind of like
tonight.
MAX
Like tonight?
VINCENT
Sure.
(beat)
This is nothing, if not “What’s next?
Right now. In the moment.”
(beat)
There’s people…ten years from now?
Same job, same place, same shit.
Everything the same; keepin’ it safe.
Over and over and over and over…
(beat)
“Ten years from now?” Man, you don’t
know where you’ll be…ten minutes
from now…tonight.
(beat; re: saxophonist)
That’s what he’s saying. Open your
ears. You’ll hear it…in his
“dialoguing” with the trumpet…
The WAITRESS arrives, an Asian woman with a tray of drinks:
WAITRESS
‘Nother Vodka tonic, hon?
VINCENT
And one for my friend.
(indicates stage)
Who’s on the tenor sax?
WAITRESS
That’s Daniel, baby, he’s the owner.
VINCENT
He is terrific. Would you be so kind
as to invite him over after his set?
I gotta buy him a drink.
WAITRESS
Sure thing, darlin’…
Vincent gives her a radiant smile and tucks a twenty dollar bill
into her apron as she leaves…
…and we find Daniel sharing more than a few drinks with
Vincent and Max, the place almost closed. Just the three of
them.
DANIEL
…I was a young cat back then, about
nineteen, bussin’ tables. Right here.
Didn’t pay but shit, but that wasn’t
the point. Being around the music,
that was the thing. And I was. Take
this one night…July 22, 1964…who
walks in. Mr. Louis Armstrong.
VINCENT
You’re kidding me.
DANIEL
Right through those doors. The man
himself.
VINCENT
Jesus…
DANIEL
He was in town playing two gigs a
night at the Coconut Grove in the
Ambassador Hotel… After his last
set, he decides to come on down to
South Central to hang with his people.
That’s how he was, you see. Never
forgot who we was. Money and fame an’
all that? Meant nothin’, long as he
could blow that horn. So before you know
it, he’s up on that
stage, doin’ his thing.
VINCENT
Was it great? Better than great, it
had to be…
DANIEL
Like Winton Marsalis says, it was
pure, spiritual essence. Louis was
playing. God was smiling.
VINCENT
You heard Armstrong play live. I’ve
never been this jealous. You get to
talk to him?
DANIEL
Did better’n that.
Vincent gives him a questioning look. Daniel smiles, raises his
hands, mimes blowing a trumpet.
VINCENT
No.
DANIEL
Oh, my, yes.
VINCENT
C’mon…
DANIEL
Fella owned this place back then, cat
named Dix Dwyer, he let slip to Louis
that I played. So Pops, he just waves
me right up. My heart about stopped.
But I got up there all the same, and
we played for nearly twenty minutes.
VINCENT
Unbelievable…
(to Max)
…you hearing this?
Max is drawn into the story in spite of himself:
MAX
How’d you do?
DANIEL
How do you think? You ain’t shit when
you playing next to Louis Armstrong.
But, Dippermouth, he was kind. He
could see me trying. He carried my ass
as best he could.
35 CONTINUED: (4)
VINCENT
Remember what you played?
DANIEL
Most vividly.
(ticking them off)
“Potato Head Blues,” “Sleepy Time Down
South…”
(laughs)
…then Pops laid some “Cornet Chop
Suey” on me, and left me in the dust
like a whipped dog.
VINCENT
Whipped dog?
DANIEL
Whipped dog on a wet night.
VINCENT
Crowd dig it?
DANIEL
(smiles, nods)
The crowd was most kind.
(beat)
I was born in 1945, but that was the
moment of my conception. Right here
in the used-to-be crowded room.
Daniel picks up the bottle to freshen up their drinks…
VINCENT
Crowds not here now?
DANIEL
Oh, jazz ain’t the draw it used to be.
VINCENT
But the place looks great.
DANIEL
Only ’cause I got the wherewithal to
finance keepin’ it up on my own.
VINCENT
What a great story. I’ll tell the
folks in Culiacan and Bogota that
story.
…and Daniel’s hand freezes just as he’s about to pour. He
glances up at Vincent.
10/4/03 MM revs. (blue) 47A.
35 CONTINUED: (5)
DANIEL
You know the people in Culiacan and
Bogota?
VINCENT
(softly)
‘Fraid so.
Max is glancing from one to the other, unsure what’s going on.
Realizing it isn’t good.
35 CONTINUED: (6)
DANIEL
And here I thought you were such a
cool guy.
VINCENT
I am a cool guy. With a job I was
hired to do. You know how it is.
There’s genuine regret in Vincent’s tone. Max feels his heart
pounding, but manages to keep his voice steady:
MAX
Let him go, Vincent.
VINCENT
I’m working here.
MAX
You’re the one who keeps talking about
going with the flow. You like the
man, you like the way he plays. How
about a little jazz, huh?
VINCENT
Improvisation? That’s funny from you.
(thinks about it, looks to
Daniel)
Okay, some jazz for the jazz man.
How’s this? I’ll ask a question?
DANIEL
What question?
VINCENT
Jazz question. You get it right, we
roll. You disappear. Tonight. You
don’t go home, you don’t pack a bag,
you leave town…and nobody, I mean
nobody, ever hears from you or sees
you again.
DANIEL
How do I know you’ll keep your word?
VINCENT
I never lie. Ask Max. Max, have I
lied?
Daniel looks to Max. Hope, fear, and desperation in the older
man’s face.
MAX
No. No. He hasn’t lied…
35 CONTINUED: (7)
Daniel absorbs this, looks back to Vincent.
DANIEL
Means you’re a man who lives on
reputation.
(beat)
I will take your word. And I will
give you mine. If I walk out of here
tonight, I’d go so far away, it’d be
just like I was dead.
Vincent nods. We have a deal. He eases something from his
waistband. Max knows. His heart is in his throat.
DANIEL (CONT’D)
And one more thing. Those guys and
their man, here, what’s his name,
Felix?
VINCENT
Yeah.
DANIEL
Tell them, if by some chance I get
this wrong…you tell them I had to.
They laid a grant of immunity on me.
So it was flip and play ball or go
back inside. I ain’t goin’ back
inside.
VINCENT
Sure.
Daniel pours himself that drink. He lifts his shot glass, hand
trembling slightly, knocks it back. Sets the glass down.
DANIEL
Lay it on.
VINCENT
It’s simple. What was Louis’ first
musical instrument?
DANIEL
I know all there is to know about
Louis.
VINCENT
Then let’s have it.
Daniel hesitates.
9/14/03 MM revs. (cherry) 49A.
35 CONTINUED: (8)
MAX
(blurts out)
It was a trumpet! Wasn’t it? Wasn’t
it a trumpet?
Daniel shakes his head.
DANIEL
Coronet. Bought it from a New Orleans
pawnshop when he was a kid.
(MORE)
35 CONTINUED: (9)
DANIEL (CONT’D)
Cost him five dollars. Got a two-
dollar advance on his salary from a
fine Jewish family he worked for,
saved up the rest.
A frozen moment. An endless pause. Max not even breathing,
staring at Vincent, waiting…
…a beat of regret…
…and Vincent’s gun came up so fast, Max didn’t even see it.
THREE SMALL POPS. A different gun: .22 caliber Ruger with a
thick, silent barrel. Three small holes. And Daniel’s head
falls forward. Vincent catches it, arranges Daniel’s arms so
that Daniel’s head rests on them as if he’s taking a nap. And
Vincent did it gently, almost regretfully. A red mist of blood
swirls in the air.
Max is stunned beyond words, and powder-burned at such close
range.
Silence now. No one’s noticed. The waitress was in the
kitchen. Softly:
VINCENT
Tin horn. Cost him a dime. Rode the junk
wagon and played for the neighborhood.
People sold them stuff. Rags.
Bottles. Whatever.
Max sits frozen, unable to move…
36 EXT. STREET OUTSIDE JAZZ CLUB – NIGHT
…and they exit the club. Vincent heads for the cab, turns and
sees Max standing there.
VINCENT
Let’s go.
MAX
No.
VINCENT
What you mean, no?
MAX
I’m done. Find another cab.
Max turns, walking away. Vincent blinks at him, almost laughs.
36 CONTINUED:
VINCENT
Max?
MAX
Leave me alone.
(shouting)
I’m collateral anyway, so do it and
stop making me a part of this!
(beat)
I don’t wanna know you!
Vincent grabs the back of his collar, slams him against the
wall. Max’s neck is a centimeter from breaking. Their faces
are inches apart.
VINCENT
(low, threatening)
I’m not playing.
MAX
You played him, man.
(off Vincent’s look)
He got the answer right, would you
have let him go?
The question hangs in the air. Before Vincent can answer, the
DISPATCH RADIO CRACKLES:
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
wow .. i dont quite recollect this scene !!!
hey in that initial discussion between Daniel and Vincent .. (when they both are chattin about “louis armstrong” ) are there reaction shots of “Max” .. or do they show that only after the conflict starts???
and i noticed that in teh starting of teh film “VINCENT” says that he hates Los Angeles because of some news story about a man who died on the subway but remained on the train for days without anyone noticing… and i beliee Vincent himself gets killed in a subway ?!?! am i ryt ??
well talkin abt the encircling or the moving cameras for such scenes … i guess when u have more than 5 characters, encircling shots will give u a smoother look if it is a long scene !!!
woody allen used a lot of PANS, Jump cuts , well movin i am not sure .. in restaurent scenes!!!
but in the case of reservoir dogs i believe that the moving shots were required !!!
lets take “12 angry men” it dint have complete encircling shots .. but rather used short curve movement shots inbetwn the usual static close and medium shots, i believe its more for the smoothness.
however, the use of camera movements by Alfred Hitchock and Martin Scorcese was more for the effect on the eyeball focus, and transfer of focus points within a frame .. such as the tracking and focus shot very famously used by Hitchcock to give the vertigo effect, or symbolising as if the world is closing own on the character.
i guess so !! my guesses are usually for my own references .. neway will check out this scene from collateral and discuss more abt it …
i however noticed the character transformation as i was readin thro .. neway i need to see it !!! i almost felt that MAX at some point there realises that there is no way out !!
George You are right. And its quite possible in LA.
Dabba Finally I have to disagree with you.
Deathproof is pretty good Tarantino writing. Not his best but it was definitely bad. Maybe its the frame of mind & expectations we both had were completely different. I go to every Tarantino film with fear in my heart that this will be the film where he will lose it. It was more in DEATHPROOF than any other film. I was almost sure I’ll be let down. But no, he made the best film he could. The car chase has to be the best ever.
“None of that Tarantino encircling-camera assholery”
I don’t think Tarantino is obsessed with the Camera tricks like Guy Ritchie or some other people. His last 2 films needed them. I think people are just bored with his style of writing.
Thanks for taking us back to COllateral. Which I think is Michael Mann’s best film so far. And one of the most beautifully shot movies about LA. I love the scene where he looks at the Coyote. I lived in Koreatown & have seen many of them.
***********
Last Film – 3 Women by Altman(6.5/10)
Music – www.radiohead.com (download)
Book – Siddhartha – Hermann Hesse
(out of topic)
hey Mainak … i am actually waitin for ur post on BFS (estonia) i believe OZ mentioned in one of the earlier posts abt film schools ..
in u have information pls mail me at “geoantoney@yahoo.com”
and guys download inrainbows by radiohead .. 2 – 3 good ones .. but i dint like their new sound .. i prefer their “karma police” “creep” neone canplay guitar” and pablo honey days !!!
George.
Gimme some time to write the article on Film Schools. My house was broken into & my laptop was stolen. I had written half the article & was saved in that laptop. Since then its been a fuckin nightmare. It was the work of the neighborhood mexican/cholo gang. The LAPD doesnt give a fuck. I put NO TRESPASSING signs outside my house yesterday. One was in spanish. I think that pissed them off. When I came back home last night my security Door was broken. I’m planning to go to the precint myself today. I hope I dont get shot soon
Isn’t it a coincidence that we were talking about COllateral & I’m experiencing Gang Violence myself.
George I like Inrainbows. I think they have gone very minimalistic this time. have you checked out Sigur Ros?
http://passionforcinema.com/thank-you-john-kumar-mangat-sigur-ros/
BTW my fav song this week is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jVCOumbXdU
I made 15 people dance to this song last saturday. 10 times
Where do you live George?
Aamchi Mumbai boss …
hey but i have lot of things to ask .. wat if the dead line is done for the institutes ????
u serious abt ur house ?? my god .. does it happen for real ???
hey B T W … have been listenin to a band called TOOL ?? are they famous there .. loved their songs .. but i dont see them that often in the mainstream ??
man i LOVE this scene and this movie.. so craftly done.. i think the final question to daniel in the final script changes to “where did miles learn music” or something like that.. and they’re discussing miles davis’ music in the scene..
but i agree with you on the points you’ve raised.. the tarantino in death proof thought he could be the tarantino of pulp fiction by having random nonsense being discussed in his scenes.. and the result was disastrous. you have to try really hard to make your audience fall asleep with 3 hot chicks on screen, and now tarantino will be more famous for that than his “ode to 70s grindhouse films”.. all i remember of death proof is the car chase at the end.. thank god for that!
Dabba awesome and thankyou…. we need more articles like this
dabba bhai…
saw deathproof recently..
was quite impressed .. mebe b’cuz it was meant to be a tribute to those b-grade grindhouse flicks and he carried it off pretty well….
i gather from ur writing that u were looking for a tarantinor flick.. (correct me if i am wrong)…
i wasnt…
and if you look at the movie for what it is .. or what it was meant to be…
mebe…..
just mebe…. this might be something u have missed…
shee-it, i go off the grid for 1 day and i feel like PFC has left me behind, what with posts from sudhir and anurag, the release of KKC and all the posts about it.
@ Mainak – Sorry to hear abt ur comp and the break in. hope u didn’t lose too much else (but damn, that comp…those heartless thieves)
Anyways, let me clarify some of the points about QT –
@ Mainak – I actually like quentin’s camerawork a lot because it is non-obtrusive. he finds a cool angle to shoot from and literally locks the camera down on the tripod. most of his great dialogue scenes play out almost entirely in two shots without any coverage. The writing is strong enough to sustain it.
I find ritchie, michael bay and tony scott’s (ridley’s evil brother) camerawork unnnecessary and over the top…kinda like SRK’s acting.
Now onto my comment abt tarantino encircling camera assholery – He uses it to great affect in reservoir dogs when they are discussing the plan. The assholery is in Death Proof. There’s 4 chics sitting at a diner in the second half of the movie and this is what happens in the dialogue-
let me establish that black chic has a gun…muthafucka this muthafucka that
lemme establish that puerto rican mami is lucky…mutha this and that
lemme establish that zoe bell (kixi stuntwoman) is like a cat and never gets injured muthafucka this muthafucka that
lemme establish that hot chic is hot and kinda slow…duhhhhh
Now this is an exposition fest and he s despertaely trying to make the scene work and give it some energy and dynamism by what i am calling assholery.
As for the the final chase in Proof, very exhilarating and enjoyable, but how much of it is because he has been drugging u with valium for the last hour and half?
@ DPac – I gather that it is a tribute to the grindhouse films, but it needs to be able to stand on its own merit. This is like someone saying that Scary Movie works as a spoof/parody of a pastiche of horror movies and other pop culture milestones.
The scene where Russell talks to the girl in the first bar and asks a lap dance… now that scene was Good. Erotic, creepy and just beneath the surface, you don’t quite know what he is capable of.
I have long ceased to enjoy Tarantino’s films. I still watch them for the enormous educational value. Kill Bill, i was quite bored with but it still had some spectacular moments. Jackie Brown is till date, in my opinion, his best film.
Let me
Sorry for the cut off – On to Collateral –
The movie was written as a New York cab film, but trust Mann to turn it into an ode to LA. I love Collateral. It has everyone on top of their game.
I had 2 problems with Collateral – the overwhelming convenience of Foxx giving a ride to Jada in the beginning, then the assasin cruise who in the end needs to kill Jada…too much, but i don’t know how they could have worked around it.
The end was a total cop out. The characters were written so well. There was no way Max could have come out on top after a gun battle with Vince. Just fuckin impossible. the least they could have done, was kill both of them, sorta saying that an everyman can rise up to the challenge and butt heads with the best when it is called for but he may not come out on top
@ Mainak – Heat remains for me, Mann’s favorite and best film. It has one of the best staged/filmed action sequences in cinema, when they rob the bank.
@ george –
Guess what the following films have in common –
12 angry men; serpico; dog day afternoon; network; the verdict; and the recent Before the devil knows you’re dead?
They are some of the iconic films to have come out of America; they boast strong writing, excellent performances and several oscars and they are all directed by Sidney Lumet.
But sidney has a dead-bolt-the-camera-down-with-the-tripod style. his only camera moves are pans and the occasional tracking shot. i always found it very undynamic or not visually appealing but he has delivered some outstanding performances.
there is a quiet workmanlike efficiency to his style. it works great for character driven, strongly written movies. but not some much for thrillers, gun play, action, etc.
@ george –
there are reaction shots to Max throughout the scene, but it builds as his interest in the story increases. you can find the clip on youtube
@ george & mainak –
my favorite radiohead album is Kid A & ok computer. like the new stuff quite a bit too.
@dabba
ya guess u r ryt abt sydney lumet !!!
well abt Radio head
i dont know why .. i am not happy with their “rock meets retro ” kinda sound … i was more happy with the pure forms of guitar play and percussions that they used in their earlier albums !!!
and that guy is an amazin vocalist
to be noted
song = neone can play guitar
second stanza= “i wanna be jim morrisson”
wow the way he roughs up his voice for that line .. i feel a wave pass thro my spine when i listen to it on my mp3 player!!!
@ george –
i know what u’re saying. it’s funny…that’s exactly why i like their sound. during the days of creep and karma police, i was ambivalent abt them. it’s after i heard the kid A song from the opening scene of Vanilla Sky that i checked out their recent albums and fell in love with them.
love thom yorpe. so delightfully weird and talented.
i even read their reviews of “inrainbows” .. critics like their new sound!!!
:( guess i will have to stick to their yester years albums or try to love their so called new sound !!!
hey guys in US .. wats so spcl abt KANYE WEST .. i think he sucks !!
sorry me divertin the topic !!!
we will hit the camera angles again !!!
dabba
Agree with everything about Collateral. The co-incidence is way too much. Total cop out on the writer’s part.
I didnt know it was a NY cab film. Quite understandable. No writer would go -Lemme write a movie about a cab driver in LA. It doesnt happen. Because Cabs are not a big part of LA culture. Only Foreigners & lazy Corporate types take Cabs in LA.
And Mann being such a LA fucker, saw the script went ‘ Fuck New York, I’ll make another LA film.’
Grind House for me & Tarantino wasn’t as much a tribute to B movies as it was “How B Movies should be”. I loved what he did with it. I’m not a big fan of B movies/slasher movies/zombie movies/horror movies. So I was quite bored with The Rodriguez version of Grindhouse.
Dabba. Its very predictable of you to saw Jackie Brown is Tarantino’s best film. Every knowledgeable film fan worth his/her salt will say that. I have to say its his best(and only?) love story so far & his most mature work.
I will rent HEAT just for you Dabba. Andwatch it one more time & try my best to like that film. I never got what was the big deal about HEAT. I find Al Pachino of last 15 years quite insufferable. Mix it with Robert D Niro & i’m ready to puke. But I respect your taste & hence in your honor I’ll watch HEAT again.
Sidney Lumet is 81 fuckin years old. Every film is like a masterpiece. NETWORK is so good. I can watch it every day.
The opening scene of BEFORE THE DEVIL KNOWS YOU ARE DEAD is so rad!!!!!
Then I kept falling asleep(I had not slept for 3 nights, partied too much then travelled all the way to Oregon) for next 30 minutes. Apart from my tiredness,I think it was a bit boring also. But after that the movie just goes downhill like nothing I’ve seen in a long time man.
Dabba in the scene where Philip Seymor points the gun at his brother, did you want him to shoot? I did. I felt bad for Philip throughout the film.
And Albert Finney. So fuckin good man!
OK Computer is the best album of our times!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhqvbr8Lq_w
George
Kanye is a bad MC. But a very very good producer. He knows good music. But he is not a good rapper. If you notice his music its filled with amazing beats. He is smart that way. His new album is made in collaboration with DAFT PUNK. Infact last night I heard it in a bar & I was quite pissed. He just copy pasted daft Punk.
Apart from that He has a lot of respect in the Black Community esp for his famous quote –
“George Bush does not like Black People”
He promotes a lot of indie hip hop artists. Mos Def, Talib Kwali etc etc.
Basically he is a good guy. He should just produce ather artists.
And yeah his mom died last months. Thats another weird Hollywood story.
@ george & mainak –
ditto abt kanye. great producer, but not much of a flow, and weak rhymes. that song of his that’s blasted on the radio (stornger), overfukkking kill. way too much stuff going on. he shud seriously take a leaf outta mos’ book. Mos and Talib are fantastic performers. seen them live plenty of times. he is perhaps my favorite rapper that’s still contemporary.
@ mainak –
ur observation abt the like for jackie brown is is spot on, and i think it is true though.
with the exception of the initial scene where samuel riffs abt The Killers (Woo film) and how every ni**a on the street wants what The Killer had, there was no other pop cult riffing, other than the fact that the ENTIRE soundtrack was like…see what kinda cool music i was into when i was younger.
nonetheless…
as for Heat, the last time I watched the film I was nearly 10 years ago so I could be mistaken, but that bank robbery scene, still remember being so thrilled by it.
before the devil knows u”re dead shoould have been called “BEFORE THE DEVIL KNOWS MARISSA’S NAKED”
she’s fine! i can’t stand ethan hawke and for that alone i wanted phil to put two through his head
ya got to know abt his mother in MTV awards !!
ya got to know abt his mother in AMA
@dabba I simply love the bank robbing scene in Heat, It looks natural and beliveable.Another one is when Al follows Deniro and takes him for a ride and they sit down in some cafe…wow that’s great….
Vincent Hanna: You know, we are sitting here, you and I, like a couple of regular fellas. You do what you do, and I do what I gotta do. And now that we’ve been face to face, if I’m there and I gotta put you away, I won’t like it. But I tell you, if it’s between you and some poor bastard whose wife you’re gonna turn into a widow, brother, you are going down.
Neil McCauley: There is a flip side to that coin. What if you do got me boxed in and I gotta put you down? Cause no matter what, you will not get in my way. We’ve been face to face, yeah. But I will not hesitate. Not for a second.
Neil McCauley: I do what I do best, I take scores. You do what you do best, try to stop guys like me.
@mainak…i have seen HEAT…and you can watch the movies because of Pacino and De Niro….they are just amazing…there is a scene where Pacino shouts at a person mouthing a dialogue laced with obscenities….and obviously the bank robbing scene….they used real bullet sounds for that….that is why it is so real….it must be one of the longest shoot outs in cinema history…..also the cafe scene and the final scene…..HEAT is quite long and sometimes the writing goes a bit loose but pacino and de niro just hold it together…..
@dabba….dog day afternoon is one of the best written films i have seen and a career defining performance by al pacino….
@dabba
hey how abt a discussion of screen writin ??
case study of
1) 21 grams
2) pulp fiction
3) pans labyrinth
4) a normal three act structure ,, hmm say… ” silence of the lambs”
5) memento
wud be interestin
well seeing that no body responded to my post on TOOL .. i guess i have to promote this amazin band
cchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hglVqACd1C8&feature=related
sorry wrong link !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hglVqACd1C8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5sIXUbMgF0&feature=related
check this if u really like rock !!!
@ arjit…
they didnt use real bullets..
they used real shells….
@dabba..
:-) stand on its own?
i was wondering …
how do u give tribute to a ‘ grindhouse’ flick just cuz u luv them…
tribute to trashy films with trashier plots….
well you could take the trashy plot and give it an A grade makeover but then it will be just that ‘a makeover’
or u could go Deathproof…
funny u should mention all the establishin goofies.. i would reckon that will be the way in an actual grinhouse production..
HEAT and The Insider are for me – da Mann
@Dpac…that’s what i meant, anyway thanks for correcting me….mann’s miami vice was such a disappointment….though it is his tribute to the originall TV series but the film is such a dampner….
@ dabba, mainak .. D pak .. n all
Use of color and light .. by our very own Santosh sivan sir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE3oeRxzbuY
check it out !!!
sorry guys .. some A***H*** has done a karaoke on the above santosh sivan song .. the original song is still better..
but however check out the look of teh song !!!
george this the same band which came out with 10000 days??
saw the cd cover recently featured in a design mag
yup u got it ryt DPac .. tats the same band !!!
where do u live DPac?? and what on what magazine did u see??
this is a graphic design mag called “Desktop’
im in melbourne presently
oh ..k
i believe it is a US based band !!! are they touring ??
they have lot of CG in their video songs … may be tats why !!!
@ DPac –
i guess u’re right in how one would do this. i have not watched any of those B movies and definitely not the grindhouse flicks.
i have always felt that i don’t need to understand all the influences and references a filmaker uses to appreciate a film. The coen brothers movies are heavily inspired by the literature and movies of the 40s. i don’t understand any of their references, but love most of their movies. anyways….
@ george –
that’s a quite a tall ask. i do intend to do this as an ongoing feature – anatomy of a scene, and choose specific scenes from movies that were well written and or well executed. i also need to be able to get the actual script because without it, it’s kinda lost. you have to read the original words of the screenwriter. lemme see what i can do. not sure if i would pick the same movies you did though. What I could do is if there is some type of scene that happens in a lot of movies (like the above sit and talk, or character transfomration in one scene, use different examples to illustrate that point. 3 act structure, too many books out there. i’m not a slave to structure so i’ll let that pass.
as for tool, i have long given up on being a music aficianado. the snobbery and pretentiousness that went with it just put me off plus i don’t have the time to delve dep into it and i don’t understand music technically so can’t speak to it other than lay man’s terms. I like, i don’t like. i know the band, and have heard some of their songs, but i wiyld never be able to pick it from a line up.
@ mainak –
deniro and pacino have been insufferable last 15 years, but i do think or atleast remember Heat being an exception. Ronin was perhaps the last decent movie deniro was in.
@george…
this was an article on the album art.. and its decline after the onslaught of the iopd and downloadable music
10000 days cd cover by alex grey featured prominently… (i havent heard them.. will check though)
@ dabba
neither have i (seen them)..
coen bros have a totally different take…
they visualise their literary inspirations quite deftly and in signature shtyle…
jackie brown his best!!?? mebe u meant best scripting exercise.. defnitely not as a movie i would think
@Dabba..
I would give D Niro Ronin. But it was a action film anyways.
@ George
21 Grams is the most pretentious piece of shit that Sean Penn & Benicio have ever been in. Watch his Ameros Peros 1st & then watch 21 Grams a week later. You’ll know what I mean.
Dabba You lucky bastard. I would love to see Mos Def & Talib live. But thats you NY advantage. Have you seen ROOTS live? Man they are the best!
I used to like Ethan Hawke for his collaboration with good young directors esp LINTEKAR. But in last 5 years he has played the same character. Its weird. He plays this over aged Hipster who knows the truth about the world but is unable to hold his life together.
Tool is an alternative/progressive band based in the US…have also won Grammy’s….many of their songs seem to be influenced by indian raagas n middles eastern influences…..have many videos havin claymation….
@ striker –
sorry i missed your comment earlier. It was Miles Davis in the movie. That’s the piece Daniel plays when they enter the club. Thanks for noticing and bringing it up.
@ mainak –
in ur face muthafucka… seen the roots too. thank the non-existent almighty for small mercies. dude, u smoked with bardem and talked to brolin. u’re still two up on me.
yup i have seen all of inniaritu’s movies .. including the short film “powder keg” of the hire series !!!
@Mainak
i kinda like them … and for the drama that was involved in 21 grams i thot the JIG SAW puzzle type narration .. helped maintian the grip !! tats what i felt …
and ya .. u need to help me out …. is “estonia” that good ??
@dabba
yeah .. scenes wud be perfect !!!
and what do u guys think abt mel Gibson’s Apocalypto ???
@ me waitin for “IRON MAIDEN” live in mumbai .. feb 08 ;)
@ Dabba
What do you think of Beastie Boys? I picked up their Double CD Anthology from the Library this week. Its a must have for every Beastie Boys fan. It comes with a book & story behind every song in that compilation.
Correction. I spoke to Bardem & smoked with Brolin. Not the other way around.
Dabba try BLACK STAR on www.pandora.com It plays the best Hip Hop song after song.
@George Thanks for reminding. I need to watch APOCALYPTO asap.
@ mainak –
I have it. My first short film ended with a beastie track. I’ll check out blackstar. i listen to SmoothBeats radio station thru itunes. killer hip hop. old school, underground, indie. none of that top 20 shit.
Do you know M.I.A.? If this doesn’t get you dancing, i don’t know what will… here are some links.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fZv-G7IISgs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDSnLcu2HTI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jBfXxCsKBXc&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=To5gxiV7qWY&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h8bV2hu3bME&feature=related
i think i’m only a few watches away from reciting all of collateral’s lines in a straight shot.. i dunno why i love this movie the way i do.. i’m a sucker for movies with very few characters and locations or enclosed space-type confrontational movies.. and collateral fits the bill perfectly. another example of this is “the descent”.. one of the best horror movies i’ve seen, and so awesomely shot.. which is very hard to say for horror movies in recent times.. 99.5% of them have S-U-C-K-E-D
M.I.A
I like her stuff, but not that much. But I agree you can;t help but dance in a club. She was here last month I think. She didnt get VISA last year at the peak of her popularity because she belongs to a LTTE family in London. Which reflects in her lyrics.
Guys I just found the best music website since Pandora.
Its www.hypem.com
Its a collection of music blogs. You can download the songs too. None of the legality issues of Limewire.
Dabba, George, Striker
check out this song – MERRYMAKING AT MY PLACE by Calvin Harris.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8jVCOumbXdU
tell me what you guys think.
I cant stop listening to it.
@ striker –
true true true. i too am a sucker for single location (real time if possible) movies. loved the descent. far superior to his first film. I am currently working on two things.
one is a thriller (real time, confined space). If I pull it off, this is going to be the movie that will announce dabba to the world.
another is also a confined space, multiple character conflict situation. it can’t be a movie because of the unfilmability of it. I will write it as a short story and post on PFC.
Collateral is a very strongly written movie. It opened my eyes to screenwriting and style. I also learned my lesson that i parrot to everyone now. In the “alley thugs gettting shot by tom cruise scene,” there’s a point when cruise spins the guy around and slams him onto the hood off the car.
Beattie writes it as something something and “propels” him onto the hood of the car. That word and scene stayed with me. I realized what it was. It was such a precise way of describing what happened, I could feel it. It evoked exactly how that scene played out on screen. That’s when i realized that you got to use precise verbs. very powerful tool.
He could have said pushed, shoved etc etc, but he said propels. So kinetic.
dabba, sounds good.. do share it. looking fwd to it.. once i have it written, will connect with you over email on another story i’m working on right now, which would work really well in a NY setting.. i come to NY a lot (i live in DC) for shoots, festivals etc, so we should definitely meet up.. and of course, if you need an actor for any of your work…
i haven’t read the script for collateral, and i’m surprised at myself for that.. thanks for reminding me i need to read it. will check it out..
..and real time scripts rock!
@ george –
I have heard good things about the film school in estonia and i’m sure Mainak will give you more details. Worse comes to worse, you’ll be balls deep in some Slavic chic, and we can all be happy for that.
What a bunch of thankless bastards!
I give you kids such a great link & a song & not a word about it.
Bitches!
patience my child. i’m in a public place and don’t have headfones.
George
I’m emailing my friend right now. She is is studying there. She also happens to be Boris’s(the founder & legend in NY Film school scene) fav student.
Give me some time.
Balls deep in some slavic chic! Sounds good to me. We need more of them in LA.
@Dabba
Paper Planes is my fav M.I.A song.
@ arijit – sorry i missed ur comment
DDA. drama doeesn’t get any better than that. there are many imitators but only one dog day.
@ varun –
i’m going to re-visit Heat since i haven’t seen it in so long. if mainak’s going to take the trouble of subjecting himself to the film on my account, the least i can do is the same. i’ll do a post on Heat depending on how i feel after the movie.
I fly like paper, get high like planes
If you catch me at the border I got visas in my name
If you come around here, I make ‘em all day
I get one down in a second if you wait
Sometimes I feel sitting on trains
Every stop I get to I’m clocking that game
Everyone’s a winner now we’re making that fame
Bonafide hustler making my name
All I wanna do is (BANG BANG BANG BANG!)
And (KKKAAAA CHING!)
And take your money
BANG BANG BANG BANG!
BANG BANG BANG BANG!
BANG BANG BANG BANG!
@ mainak
thanks man … i hope u have noted my email id !!!
and ya i actually listened to that song the other day itself and was wonderin .. wats so good abt it ;)
now tat we are bitches .. ITS AN AMAZIN song :p
Mainak .. i guess u r a party animal !!! me ryt ???
NYC is overrun with the Slavic. Dark hair, blue eyes, tall and skinny, and an inability to say No….What’s not to like right?
When i die, I’ll know I’m in heaven when I see a long line of Swedes, Slavs and everyone in between waiting to perform sexual favors. Hell will be listening to Ethan Hawke and Rand talk. On loop.
On Cabin Fever’s audio track, Boris calls in from Estonia to talk to Eli Roth abt the film and how Eli was during NYU film school. I’ve heard too many fantastical things abt Boris. Quite the character.
hey guys .. did u chck out teh link of that mallu movie !! the one that santosh sivan directed .. what do u guys think abt it ???
i may remind u guys abt this one more time .. next me too naming u guys “female dogs” ;)
@ D pac from australia …
me a big fan of the guy named “Tobey” he participated in Rockstar supernova (was 3rd) he made the word EVS famous here !!!
is he doing well as a rock singer there??
“EVS = Whatever”
i saw M.I.A live at the knitting factory for the frist time 2or 3 years ago. i didn’t know who she was. this was right after her first album and some friends dragged me to the show. 10$ to get in and she’s like 20 feet away. what a performer!
i have seen her twice after that during her recent tour to promote kala. it’s funny seeing a room full of white people dancing to dappangoothu and singing “Jimmy…aaja”
hey dabba .. is that “dappangoothu and singing
who is this M I A ??
@ george
will see sivan’s clip when i get home in a bit. both u and mainak best stop being whiny little shits.
@ george
scroll up to my comment #45. i have 5 youtube links. Watch them and wiki M.I.A. you may fall in love with her, what with ur tamizh connection and all (or are u mallu?)
My neighbor was this swede chic who also happened to be the hottest fuckin chic in our school. Thats very hard to achieve in LA. You can imagine how hot she was. She had a thing for black guys. Fucked them like a nymph. I could hear her fuck day & night. Bitch took my camera & fucked it up. But I don’t mind. She was a good neighbor to me at times of decadance drunkenness.
Koreans are the sluts of Asia. they literally take over any Techno party or rave.
Dabba your idea of Hell is hilarious. Did you know Ethan Hawke wrote a book also. I picked it up for a dollar from a used book store. If I have it I promise I will gift wrap & mail it to you.
Slavic are the best. Japanese chics are also very good to party with. LA is filled with them. They say yes to every experience. Drugs, sex, whatever. You just gotta charm them with bad jokes. Jokes have to be bad. They don’t get the good ones. Only thing is they are not fun to talk to sometimes. But for some people thats a plus in a girl
@George.
You can say that about me. Thats one big reason I can’t leave LA for now. There’s always some party somewhere. But I wanna move to NY soon. In 2 years.
@ striker –
fo sho’. call or email me when ur in NYC. i don’t come down to DC that often, but now with all u folks out there, we may have to do a PFC east coast meetup.
George check out her Paper Planes.
Its an awesome track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCFN1XwDOqE
Dabba MIA was in my neighborhood last month. Missed her for some other personal house party i think.
All I wanna do is (BANG BANG BANG BANG!)
And (KKKAAAA CHING!)
And take your money
Pirate skulls and bones
Sticks and stones and weed and bombs
Running when we hit ‘em
Lethal poison through their system
No one on the corner has swag like us
Hit me on my burner prepaid wireless
We pack and deliver like UPS trucks
Already going hell just pumping that gas
All I wanna do is (BANG BANG BANG BANG!)
And (KKKAAAA CHING!)
And take your money
M.I.A.
Third world democracy
Yeah, I got more records than the K.G.B.
So, uh, no funny business
@ mainak
please send me the book. i’ll have to go Fahrenheit 491 (or whatever that number was) on it.
the question that begs asking is, were you black enough for the swede? I had the same exxperience with the Japanese. I would be all like witty and charming and shit, no fucking reaction. and then i would say stupid shit, and it was like hahaha.
love the koreans. love love love. i think somewhere between christianity and buddhism in that country, promiscuity wwas imparted as religious education.
-Dabba
man M I A is pukka dappangoothu, wow ..
me mallu or a tamizhian .. me myself confused :-?
born in mallu land .. brought up as a pandy and livin else where !! ya tats better
- Mainak
my guru … u seem to be the most experienced in vital matters !!! u know to differentiate with races and regions .. WOW !!! me bows to u !!!
b t w Dabba n Mainak .. what r ur indian roots ??
mainak, i was hoping to move to LA in 2-3 years.
i swear today .. Dabba and Mainak .. my Gurus … enlighted me and be my guiding star .. wow .. koreans, chinkezzz, swede slavic ..
@ george – i don’t disclose. not important. people guess and are usually wrong.
@ george, it’s not cool to say chinkeez. i know u don’t mean it derogatorily, but it’s not done.
paper planes .. nice one !!!
oops .. alryt .. no more that work !!
sorry word*
the comments column is filled with just three names !!!
Alryt guys me leavin now .. gonna be 3:30am here !!!
good day !!
Just back from Brunch!
yeah George. America makes you politically correct. Dabba has been here longer. I used to use that word in India a lot. Now i find it offensive myself. Its a weird world.
Koreans are also the wildest of asians. They are the only asians who are heavily into gangs. And Stylish movie kinda gang. Not street gangs.
You should move to LA right away. It will be funny if we both move at the same time. We can do a house swapping
I hope you dont live in Jersey
George
check this song out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFO-8ml52RU
Its a stupid catchy song. Since we are talking about Scandanavians!
Mainak,Dabba, I like guys who talk about being ‘balls deep’ in anything….LOL, yeah LA’s good to party in, but wears off mighty quick, people are sooo fuckin dumb, it boggles the mind…unless you’re high as a kite, I suppose, then you dont really care….
You guys are going to school, I take it…film school presumably?
Dabba, as far as enclosed area/single location films go…you’ve GOT to see ‘Death and the Maiden’-Polanski and ‘The Interview’ – Buscemi….totally economical and engaging without any gimmicks.
Also Mainak…if u want to see something very refreshing and liberating…unlike the regurgitated narratives one is used to…go watch ‘Into The Wild’…its still in theatres in LA…directed by Sean Penn, a beautiful, beautiful tale, based on a book (true story)…of the true meaning of freedom in the context of this exploitative, over technologized age we live in.
@ Mainak and Dabba
yeah i too realized / me bad … its kinda a common term here .. but i have tried not using that !! will not use that again
but ya .. i also use words like “pandy” for tamilians and “mallu” for malayalies .. but i deliberately use them cause those words are normally used for tamilians by malayalies and vice versa !!
and they are considered offensive .. but i dont believe so !! “pandy” is derived from the clan “pandians” who ruled over that area .. so i would be proud instead of being offended wen some one calls me PANDY !!! and ya MALLU is just a fun word .. a short form .. so c no problems there !!
@ qwerty –
i’ve seen the movies u mentioned. also watched clean, shaven…great sound design. watched into the wild. didn’t acre for it. iwas bored but good p[hotography. not in film school. took a film class once where i learned to load film in an arri.
@ mainak
NOT in jersey. not that there;s anything wrong with that. dreading the move to LA. been there a few times and hung out in WeHo. too many fucking name droppers in that town. every conversation is abt the biz. too much for me. great parties though. u gotta do the time if u wanna do the crime.
@ george –
didn’t know mallu or pandy were considered offensive. thanks. i used to say chinky too. and red indian and nigga (education from hip hop). u live n learn.
i just realized that there mayb e some hypocrisy here. i will not use racial epithets that are considered offensive, neither will i use language offensive to homosexuals. but i am generous with the use of the word bitch. only with people that know me well or i’m comfortable around, and rarely rarely rarely at a woman.
Qwerty
I have the DVD of INTO THE WILD. I’ll watch it next month. I can’t disagree with the Dumbness of the LA crowd. But I got used to it. Its kind of fun now. But thats also the main reason I need a change of scene & want to check out NY for some time. But I hate cold weather & thats mainly why I chose LA or NY when I came here. The weather here is so good. Just that alone is worth living here & enduring all that name dropping, dumb people & the traffic.
a cool video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AeodCMHCFk
an Old favourite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4yndU6NqUE
Check out Peaches Electronic Downtown also. I love it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27fUjx8SyiM&feature=related
I hope Dabba is not in a public places when he is checking these links out.
enjoy!
thanks for peaches. hadn’t heard them before. any idea how the FX on the first video was shot?
No Idea Dabba
I found that song while looking for this other Brit song called – FIT BUT DON’T YOU KNOW ALREADY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr4TpXqlPhI
Did you like the Merrymaking song?
sorry mainak, didn’t care for merrymaking.
hey i dont know why .. i thot i dint like the song … but then for some odd reason i am humming it !!!
Dabba, ‘Into the Wild’ can only be truly appreciated by people who have some familiarity and affinity with that kind of lifestyle and philosophy…most desis (or any immigrants) fresh off the boat are too dazzled by the bright lights and big city to give two hoots about a complete negation of the same…
Mainak..the film is still in theatres..I didn’t know the dvd was out already…
@qwerty,
went ‘into the wild’ last night..
as much as i liked it there was something amiss there..
of course you can rave about such a movie coming out of hollywood, but thats not the point..
a friend somewhat shallowly put it ‘as a movie about people this guy met with good visuals…nothing more’
it was more than that.. much more.. but that killer punch which makes it ‘great’ was missing
@dabba…
cornelius video is one of the most stellar motion graphics exercises in recent years..
heavy compositing /camera tracking/animation (even stop motion).. done by a crazy japanese guy Koichiro Tsujikawa..
that much i can say offhand without any info about the content processing.
leave u this for more info
http://www.heavy-backpack.com/archives/general/koichiro-tsujikawa-likes-cornelius
@96 DPac –
Thanks. Will look into it. I take it you are a graphic designer. Are you involved in any of that – animation, stop motion etc,…
@93 qwerty –
Condescension with me needs to be a bit more subtle for it to not grate and make me punch people in the nose. Better luck next time.
It does not work as a film. Period. I can break down the movie for all the reasons it does not work, but you seem so blinded by a hippie wet dream, that it may be lost on you.
Road movies rarely make great cinema. They can’t sustain deep human emotion or drama. They usually lose their impact because you don’t have recurring characters and a single goal or conflict that escalates. You keep meeting new people. You can’t build the drama.
It was a book adaptation, so they had to use the by now very familiar trope of v.o. to communicate how unique his thoughts are, etc. etc., which also rarely makes for good cinema. I could have listened to the book on tape and seen photographs of Alaska, and it would have had the same impact. That is not cinema. You could shoot Alaska with a camcorder and still get beautiful images. There was one poignant moment in the film before he dies, when he realizes the foolishness of his ways and what the true meaning of life is.
Perhaps you are too easily impressed with a bunch of hippies smokin and living off the land saying “This is what life is about man. You know, this, right here man. Living man.” I am not. My affinity for that lifestyle or lack of it does not affect my ability to appreciate cinema. Happy to know that bright lights don’t dazzle you and your ascetic, non-materialistic, and dare I say spartan lifestyle, sitting at your computer at home with climate control and watching movies in a cinema hall is working out for you.
Dabba…pls excuse the ‘condescension’..it was purely unintended. I just punched it in without looking at the words closely…
And no, I’m not too taken by hippies, I felt that the film’s structure and refusal to conform to ‘classical hollywood’ effectively conveyed the fluid, free flowing nature of the protagonist’s quest..and indeed life in general, which I strongly believe is a process, not a product, like the Hollywood studio system would have us believe…all neatly tied up in easily digestible packages.In my eyes, the notion of ‘escalating conflict’ is a complete cop out,not to mention cliched and trite beyond hope… it is a product of instant gratification, much like fast food and instant coffee.
So essentially, by your definition of ‘great cinema’, anything by Antonioni, Godard or more recently Terence Malick etc…would not qualify, being relegated to the backseat in favour of Jurassic Park and Lethal Weapon, maybe?
Qwerty
DVD of INTO THE WILD has not released. I have a screener. I have a DVD of THERE WILL BE BLOOD also. How? Thats another story.
I have heard lots of good things about INTO THE WILD. I have tremendous respect for SEAN PENN. And his anger. But Somehow Into The Wild didn’t interest me enough to run to the theaters. Infact The very subject of a Kid going on a road trip & live a Hippie Lifestyle seemed too cliche for me. Who gives a fuck about some kid who died on the road? Now I have not read the book. So maybe it is as great as they say it is.
I’ll watch the film tommorow & give you my opinion.
Infact I’m read ON THE ROAD this week. How strange.
And also SEAN PENN has a tendency to make Film School kinda films. Watch the Short Film series on 9/11. Its the worst collection of short films by such a bunch of talented directors.
But I love SEAN PENN.
*****
http://hypem.com/popular
@ MAINAK bhai
what r u promotin here ?? “hypem”??
Mainak, if one is to follow that train of logic…who gives a fuck about anything in this world anymore…? By your previous comments on ‘Heat’ and ‘Collateral’…who gives a fuck about the zillionth heist movie..or Tom Cruise driving around LA in a taxicab, killing people?
What is there to give a fuck about anymore…except truth…and beauty…..those hard won epiphanies that make life worth living…and are almost impossible to come by in this concrete jungle and culture of sensory bombardment, where a moron like Cruise can become a megastar and the ‘Terminator’ can be governor of California..LOL.
@ dabba
i dont know much abt INTO THE WIND …
but i wud sure like to know ur views of “motorcycle diaries” it also had narration and it was also kinda road flm .. so was it bad for u ?? me eager.. i kinda liked it !!!
@ MAINAK
i saw ur rating of “no country for old men”
wow
my friend is goin GAGA over it .. and he posted me this dialogue
Llewelyn Moss: If I don’t come back, tell mother I love her.
Carla Jean Moss: Your mother’s dead, Llewelyn.
Llewelyn Moss: Well then I’ll tell her myself.
cant wait for it to release in india !!
but he was sayin that the movie had a kinda bad ending. well is it so??
WARNING : no spoilers please.
‘I could have listened to the book on tape and seen photographs of Alaska, and it would have had the same impact. ‘
pretty loose words bro..
look beyond the ‘hippie dream’ theres much more to the film than that
George
There are always expection to the rules.
TRAINSPOTTING & MOTORCYCLE DIARIES are such exception to Narration rules.
George its WILD not WIND.
And thats the site I discovered 3 days back and was barking about it to you & dabba. check it out.
Qwerty
I understand your point. I agree too.
But we cannot judge Michael Mann’s Blockbuster films with Sean Penn’s activist films. We are supposed to enjoy blockbusters. While the latter types are supposed to wake us up from our “mall dreams” and realize what a shit hole our lives have become. Thing is I already know that. I watch such films all the time. I’m surrounded by people like that. SOmetimes it just gets too much. I need my SUPERBAD sometimes. Which btw is the best movie of 2008.
Qwerty where do you live? You seem very frustrated with the stupidity of the world around you. Understandably so!
I know what you need.
Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BpUnoCmpE
************
http://hypem.com/popular
ya i noticed that i got that “wind ” wrong !!!
ok me goin thro that site !!!
George
The movie has a great ending. I will not discuss it now as you have yet to watch it. But Its not the best film COEN BROTHERS have made. Just remember that & you not get disapointed. Its a very very good film.
And George
The dialogue your friend told you was probably the weakest lines of the film. Its a dialogue that makes you aware of the existance of the writer & his cleverness. All hail the writer. He writes such great lines.
Did you check out UNKLE?
*************
http://hypem.com/popular
http://www.howstuffworks.com/
check this site .. i use this site for everything .. research, study .. even for details in my script i hit this one !!!
George
Were you born yesterday?
yup yup .. UNKLE is playin continuously in my PC !!!
ha ha .. y u ask tat ??
may be u have been using that site for a loong time !!!
;)
Thats an ancient site George.
BTW check out this page
http://hypem.com/search/unkle/1/
The songs to check out are -
Hold My Hand
Keys to the Kingdom
Restless
Rabbit in Your Headlights (feat. Thom Yorke)
Qwerty
Have you seen I HEART HUCKABEES by David Russell?
What do you think of that film?
What do you think of Marky Mark & Jason’s character’s in that film?
I split my time between LA,Brasil,Turkey and Thailand…also Mexico and Morocco/Spain border….make docs for a living…and yes I get pretty fed up with people who are not able to see beyond the narrow confines of this fabricated reality….
dpac, Australia is beautiful, I spent some time in Byron Bay, some time in the bush, filming with abos… also Tasmania, barrier reef,Ayers rock etc…aussies are however a strange bunch…
Mainak, huckabees was another ensemble urban family ‘quirky’ dysfuction piece which I did not care for much….I couldnt care two hoots about any of those people….
Have u seen ‘L’Avventura’ by antonioni…or ‘Hiroshima mon amour’ by Resnais….? more recently ‘Aguirre, the Wrath of God’ by Herzog or ‘La Haine’ by Kassowitz?…now THATS filmmaking…
@ qwerty –
my apologies for the over-reaction. There are very few things that get under my skin, and condescension is one of them. If yours was not intended, I take back everything that I said that didn’t relate to the movie. It was just not a good film. Escalating tension is not cliche. It is drama and storytelling!
I can make a loosely connected narrative which is just about a bunch of people sitting around and talking but that is not story telling. In your estimation, Slackers by Linklater must be a master piece. I like Linklater and enjoyed that film, but that is not storytelling. I don’t care for Godard. I have not enjoyed it one bit.
I hope the irony of people that are frustrated with the “shit” that surrounds us, talk about a simpler life, and leaving it all behind is not lost on you since some thing tells me you are not walking to Brazil and Thailand, and you would not be flying there if it cost $50,000. It costs what it does for a reason.
There are no simple answers in life and to condemn people that don’t have the luxury to choose to live a certain lifestyle smacks of hubris.
@ DPac –
Apologies for the loose words. Result of the over-reaction above. But I don’t fancy people that have the luxury to get away from it all after they have enjoyed the education, the skills development and everything someone needs. I have immense respect for the sages in india that literally give everything up, all material possessions, but not some half assed thing. Also, I am quite a populist, and if it does not work for most of mankind, it doesn’t carry much truck with me.
@ george –
there are some things i know and know them well. i am no authority on cinema. I have my preferences. I react to a movie at the gut level first, and then analyze it to see why i liked or didn’t like it. Motorcycle diaries, i enjoyed for several reasons. i like the notion of Che. But I am glad he died when he did. his biography makes for a good read.
i love south america, and the plight of the mestizo affects me a bit. i enjoyed the movie. it’s far from great though.
I don’t read much, but I suspect that if i do, i would enjoy and be moved by the Iliad more than the Odyssey for the above mentioned arguments.
@ george –
In my comments on jateen Gandhi’s post on No Country, i sorta did a primer of coen brothers and what order to watch their movies. if you are inclined, please give it a read.
@ mainak –
i am starting to not like you. You have the screener for There will be Blood!
please tell me it’s awesome awesome awesome, and if i ever meet you, there will be blood! for all the movies u lay ur hands on.
Dabba – ‘if it doesnt work for most of mankind,it doesnt hold truck for me..’
then ‘Hero No. 1′ and ‘Coolie No. 1′, ‘Debbie Does Dallas’ part 1/2/3/4 must be the best films of all time….!
Sorry Dabba, but to me ‘populism’ reeks of the Pied Piper leading hundreds of rats to their watery demise….
Populism is what brought Hitler and the Nazis to power.
Populism is why India (and the rest of the developing world) is still the way it is…
Populism is what has let the concepts of’Empire’ and ‘Dynasty’ and ‘Race’ exploit and oppress billions of people on this planet…where the average human is merely a cog in the wheel with no individuality whatsoever..if you dont fit into a niche they have created for you, you may as well not have been born.
Yes, I agree, ‘getting away from it all’ is a luxury for most, but by the same token we dont have to be puppets to the dictates of the consensual majority (with major vested interests), like a bunch of trained monkeys…
Please do rent ‘The Corporation’ doc if you ever get a chance to…it may open your eyes.
Also please try and get your hands on ‘Manufacturing Consent’ and ‘Rogue State’, before you so proudly sing the virtues of ‘populism’…
Dabba
List of DVDs currently in my living room –
There Will Be Blood
In The Valley Of Elah
Margot at the Wedding
Into the Wild
I’m Not There
The Brave One
The Assasination of Jesse James
Lars & The Real Girl
NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN
CONTROL
AMERICAN GANGSTER
GONE BABY GONE
LA VIE EN ROSE
DAN IN REAL LIFE
MUSIC WITHIN
THE BUCKET LIST
JUNO
The Savages
There are some more in my bedroom also
Diving Bell & the Butterfly
Mainak
that was the most STUPID thing to do…
you are now officially NO.1 on my ‘KILL him to GET them LIST”
@qwerty,
im really jealous now mate…
gimme a holler if u are coming down under next time…
@ qwerty –
I was wondering how long it would take you to invoke Godwin’s Law. I had given you a few more comments but my use of “populist” seems to have triggerred ur rhetoric. I’m not going to do a point by point rebuttal.
Let me clarify what I meant and lay this to rest. I am getting bored by this conversation, and you are not bringing any new insights or arguments that I have not listened to carefully in the past, reflected upon and for the most part dismissed.
The inconsistency in ur worldview is hopefully obvious to you. My personal challenge has been with finding something meaningful to do with my life that is all encompassing, in every action I do. I can’t enjoy the benefits of this material world, such as a fresh pineapple in tundra winters and an airplane ride to the bowels of the world, while railing against all that is a by-product of it. I consume minimally, but by whose standards? To someone else, my lifestyle may be extragavant, lavish even.
I have not embraced any philosophy, religion, or activism, because it never seems to be enough. Unfortunately I don’t care as much about the world, as I care about my own personal happiness and satisfaction. You may dismiss that as instant or delayed or self-gratification, but I will die happier than you.
So I partake in what few things give me a little joy. I respect other people’s opinions so long as they don’t force them on me, and let me be. For all your lack of intention, you patronize quite effortlessly by saying things such as “open your eyes”. I use the word populism for that state when I can tell a billion people to follow my lead, and live THE good life, and they can follow it without the world coming to a crashing halt because they weren’t busy inventing your camera or airplane.
Let me ask you one final question. It has multiple parts though and if you have an intelligent and well thought out answer, we can talk further about this topic. It may actually help me out a lot.
How much food does (wo)man need? Who decides? What about biological variation among humans? What about human desire for variety?
p.s. I have seen The Corporation, and had come to similar conclusions long before I watched it. If I can, at some point I will check out the books you mentioned. If they have something worthwhile to say in the first 5 pages, I may actually read it.
Die Mainak Die
@ dabba
no yaar .. not now .. dont kill mainak now … he said he wud help me get Balls deep in some slavic chic ;)
and guys now i wonder .. y wudnt those guys break into Mainak’s house !!!! tat too twice !!!
@ DPac – wheren in Aus are ya? Seems like there are quite a few of us here on PFC from Aus. Perhaps we should all join hands and ‘create’ something.
Dabba, you will not die happier than me for the simple reason that you are still trying to find ’something meaningful to do’ in the context of a reality that for the most part is meaningless…i.e the concrete jungle, which you have already admitted you dont have the resources to escape from.
I have been doing exactly as I please since the age of 16, with or without resources…I have always created my own way.
‘The benefits of this material world’ are for the most part fabricated desire created by the media…they tell you what to think, how to think and when to think.What we think we need in order to be ‘happy’ are just programmed, conditioned and ultimately meaningless artifacts of a completely artificial belief system
Eating a fresh pineapple in the Tundra is a complete aberration, like a three legged goat, while it’s possible through technology, it’s totally unnecessary..like that oversized, genetically modified tomato that looks great but tastes like nothing, or the silicone breasts we see all around us…
No I do not believe my worldview is inconsistent, I simply refuse to buy into the hype and have through sheer wilfulness led a very fulfilling existence, travelled the four corners of the globe and crammed my life with a plethora of multifaceted experiences, without being resigned to my fate and thinking I know it all. I refuse to fit into any predefined ’slots’ that have been created for me and pretend to be ‘happy’. That’s not happiness, my dear Dabba, that’s called resignation.
So yes I pay some cash to fly to the ends of the earth…I did not say technology was evil per se…but the system that only lets a handful of us enjoy that technology is definitely evil.
You say you are more interested in your personal happiness over that of the world, well you’re not saying anything new, most people (and animals) think that way, unfortunately it is precisely that type of thinking that causes serious, all encompassing situations like global warming that we are facing today…which may not let you enjoy that fresh pineapple for much longer….or anything for that matter.As for your questions -the body decides, how much is enough…if you eat too much you get indigestion. Variety..? There is more variety on this planet than we can even begin to dream of…a lot more than these smug, incestuous, self contained systems (modern cities) would have us believe
All life is interconnected my friend, every little thing we do or think has planetary repercussions..which I realize is a frightening and overwhelming responsibility for most, but one we have to shoulder sooner or later.Perception is reality and reality is perception.
Yes I have had the advantage to be born into an environment where a great many opportunities were available to me that are not available to the average mestizo or ‘ghati’ or aborigine, or any of the worlds many downtrodden, and I do not have to fight for morsels in the trash and therefore have the luxury of being able to think this way, so then doesnt that also give me the great responsibility of using my privilege (if you want to call it that) to try and heal what has been broken or wounded…? I truly believe this 20th century infrastructure is completely antithetical to the natural human state.
Great art, down the ages, has NEVER come from contentment and smug self satisfaction, dear dabba….it comes from deep, excruciating sensitivity to the world we live in…from wounds that dont heal easily, from feeling the pain of the world and an urge to exorcize demons, both internal and external…at least that you will agree with, I hope.
To know the ultimate truth you have to be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice – the surrender of the Self.
Or be ‘happy’ with being thrown a couple of bones once in a while….
Patronizing? I dont think so buddy, just brutally honest , that’s all. Why on earth would I want to hurt you in any way….? But dear friend, I have to say what I have to say.Humanity is a complex thing, so is life…way too intense,surreal, multi hued and textured to be encapsulated by the ridiculous and absurd bromides of ‘escalating conflicts’ ‘catalysts’, ‘hooks’ and ‘plot points’….just like any great art , it imitates life and vice versa…both are equally true.
Just dont give me that regurgitated studio ’storytelling’ bullshit.
@ anand
‘create’ something?? maan u r freaking me out now
im in melbourne maaaaaaaaaayte
Dabba
have you heard of C.H.A.S.E?
he is a Hip Hop artist I discovered today. Very funny & awesome. Very political.
I will find out more about him & the songs I liked tommorow & give you the links.
check out one of my fav band THIEVERY CORPORATION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRvAq6K654
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04bg9IC9N6w
QWERTY quite a lifestyle you got man. Do you work for National Geography?
When do you grace LA?
I just watched JACKASS 2. Its Nasty!
I have not seen the original. Will check it out. Those boys are crazy.
Dabba – That Peaches song – FUCK THE PAIN AWAY is in it. Its hilarious.
Qwerty
Have you seen the ENRON documentary? Smartest Men….
THE YES MEN?
NO END IN SIGHT?
What documentary are you working on now?
mainak, it’s on illegal immigration/human trafficking across the us-mexico border…called ‘Calavera No Llora’ (The Dead Dont Cry)…NOT topic driven and academic though…very very eclectic and character driven/expressionistic, like ‘Crumb’, ‘The Grey Gardens’, ‘Mr.Death’, ‘Dark Days’…..
@ qwerty –
When you come into a discussion with pre-conceived notions about the other, you may not hear what they are saying.
From u in 127 – “Dabba, you will not die happier than me for the simple reason that you are still trying to find
Dabba, the IRB, and the campaign fund of the senator who are pushing it are among the biggest ‘populist’ scams perpetrated by mankind…the bill doesn’t reform anything…and the campaign fund will more likely finance a pad in the Hamptons, rather than anything else…pls look into it more closely before believing the hype.
Once again you buy too easily into the populist bromide ‘of the people,by the people,for the people’- modern govt is anything but that!
But I do envy your unshakeable faith in the powers that be….truly ignorance is bliss.
Your logical conclusion…the extinction of mankind? I prefer to look at it as a shift to a higher plane of being…maybe extinction of the status quo is necessary for that. Again that tone of resignation in your words…like a sacrificial lamb before it’s slaughter….
Dabba a couple of drinks are called for (organic microbrews anyone?)
Also I did say there is nothing wrong with technology…just the way it has been monopolized by a tiny minority…sure canals in the desert are fine until they are used to create a monstrosity like Vegas (truly an aberration).Nuclear power is fine too, until it is used to decimate the species…
It is not the technology per se, but the way it is used…which again brings us back to my main argument…the evolution of the human spirit.
as far as art goes..that is a long discussion..the nature of art, what qualifies as art etc etc…you have Andy Warhol and Robert Mapplethorpe, as well as Leonardo and Rembrandt…you’ve got vivaldi and MAhler, as well as John Cage and Rage Against the MAchine….neither would call the other art…..do you see Van Gogh appreciating a crucifix immersed in human feces and urine..?
so it is merely the context and perception (purely subjective) that gives art it’s identity…therefore any system of creative bondage..like the studios perpertuate, is in my eyes anathema.
Hope that makes some sense.
@ qwerty –
finally in agreement on something. Bring on the Mai Bocks. Although i don’t care for the organic kind.
I am not that naive abt the IRB, and where campaign funds end. But it does and will change a few things.
Please tell me what the higher plane is, and how you plan on all of us, or the select few you are going to choose, get there. Also what do u suggest as an alternative to modern govt. I have tried hard to find a better political and social doctrine, and have resigned (as u correctly perceived), to making movies, and slipping in a little sumthin sumthin through the movies every once in a while. A lamb has got to die. Better to be someone’s biryani, than wrinkle to death.
What is the impact of your documentary filmmaking?
@ mainak –
hook meup with C.H.A.S.E. u are officialy my go to source for new music, since i don’t have the time to find it on my own. i like thievery corporation.
@ qwerty –
agreed on the monopoly of technology, and what qualifies as art. i rarely get into that discussion, cos there is no answer to it. Or atleast none that satisfies. How is the evolution of human spirit supposed to take place?
I hope i have not come across as someone hailing the studio system, because nothing could be farther from the truth. But studios have put out fantastic movies, like Requiem (which i know is to ur taste), among others. They may be the exception, but like in mathematics, everything counts.
Qwerty
I couldn’t find your film in IMDB. Are you into directing or producing these films? Do you need some assistant?:) But the job must have travel to all those countries you mentioned:)
Where the fuck has George dissapeared?
Dabba
I go through phases of finding new music. You guys just happen to catch me in it this time. I have kinda given up on finding new music. There is just too much of it. I drive a lot & have started listening to Audio Books to catch up for all those wasted years of not having read anything.
Since you are online so much, 2 best places to find new music is
www.hypem.com
www.pandora.com
Dabba have you seen Thievery Corporation live? They are from DC area. Must play in NY regularly. Have you heard GOTAN PROJECT?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZk-LJ_KCMg
They are awesome.
@DPac – no intentions of freaking you out Maaaaayte! Melbourne ahhhh! Am going to be coming down from Sydney to watch the first day of the boxing day test match! Hope we bat first!With the holiday season coming up, I was thinking people here could make a short film…
- Anand G, My only reaction to #140. Ho gaya kalyan.
n
thanx oz/wb combine…
dil bhar gayaaaa
@anand…
gonna miss the boxing day test maayte…
u have no idea but ur presently living in the PFC treasury/records block :-)
@ Mainak –
Haven’t seen Thievery live. do they put on a good show? i don’t go to live acts unless i know they are electric performers. Liked Gotan. When smoky haunted silky vocals that many of these Latino singers emply when they sing in Spanish, uhh!, fawtastic.
I would check out the sites, but i still gotta search there right? Make urself useful for a change and keep sending in the links.
@oz – hehe woh to hota rehta hai… especially in my industry. Have immunity to do kalyan or get kalyaned!
@DPac – PFC Treasury/Records Block? Am an accountant and I don’t know this yet! And my pro-bono services aren’t being utilised either? Blasphemy! Who else is from Sydney here? ‘Oz’ has a very obvious nickname.. but I assume he is in the US.
Dabba, since ur now a ‘reader’ pls do check out the original Tarantino script (before Stone came on board) of ‘Natural Born Killers’…now that’s a real gem, one of a kind. But make sure you get the unaltered version (may be hard to come by).You simply will not be able to put it down – that’s a guarantee.
Being a reader has it’s rewards I suppose (if u can call them that) You get to see what utter garbage people are churning out most of the time..and the ocassional good stuff that get over developed, goes through 50 rewrites and is unrecognizable by the end of it.
I used to be a Story Editor under Mike Medavoy and then later Oliver Stone in the late nineties….they call it ‘Development Hell’ for a very good reason!
@ qwerty –
I have read one of the older versions of Tarantino’s original. I am not sure if it was from before Stone came on board or not. It was very different from the way the movie turned up. But there were too many similarities to his True Romance – Lovers on the Lam, and the psycho cop (whatever his name was) also, had a far bigger role. It also had his usual pop culture fixations. It was a very enjoyable read, but I don’t hold NBK against Stone.
I quite liked the direction he wanted to go in, with the media etc. Tarantino had essentially re-written a far sicker Bonnie & Clyde, and Stone wanted to focus on the Clydification and instant celebrity of today’s media.
although i am not directly involved in the Hollywood system, my friends tell me about development hell, and I expect it to be every bit as bad as I hear. i don’t understand why they fuck with it so much though, is it just to say they pissed ojn it or contributed in some way?
partly the reason why i don’t aspire to work wholly within the studio system but i’ll cross that bridge when i get there.
what sort of things did you work on?
@ Dabba
loong loong ago .. i posted a “santosh sivan link” ??? remember ??
@ 150 george –
was it that long ago? I watched it that very evening but forgot to comment on it. it did have very good photography, and fairly good production design. was that manoj k jeyan? and by the way i don’t know if it didn’t sync properly or that was the one u said someone karaoked on top, but that was some of the most gloriously bad singing, and melody i have ever heard. i didn’t know malayalam could be made to sound that bad.
@ dabba
its an amazin song but some one did an awesomely bad karaoke on it !!
and ya that was Manoj k jeyan!!!
George
I’m watching Assasination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
Its a beautifully shot. Andrew Dominick has become one of my fav directors now. CHOPPER was not a fluke. This guy is a awesome director.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmpL4p_73hQ&feature=related
@ Mainak
tell me if the movie is any good and i might actually catch it on dvd or on screens if it is still playing. i walked out of it cos i was bored, and went to watch shoot em’ up instead. it was that kinda night. nursing my day long buzz, swinging back 40s while taking hits of Jameson out of my flask, i was ready to P-A-R-T-Y. starting to like the better Affleck. He was good in Gone baby.
Picked the wrong movie.
@Mainak ..
i dont get to see these movies here !!!
“i am legend” releases next week here !! but as of now i guess i shud satisfy myself by watching old films on DVD.
@ mainak and dabba
i had a mess for u guys here .. a reco from me… hip hop reco .. check it !!!
http://passionforcinema.com/itch-from-scratch/
@ george –
it seems like these days, any time i introduce someone to MIA, they reply with these Malaysian guys. i know of them. they do a good job of rapping in tamizh, but need better producers/tunes/hooks. doesn’t sound fresh.
@ dabba actually tat is illayaraja’s classic tunes … the have rapped to it !! i mean almost like remix… i guessed you wud be knowing that.
u know dabba .. its kinda interesting that u write “tamizh” even tamilians use “tamil” .. nice nice … so i have my own guesses but i wud rather keep it to myself.
;)
@ george –
it’s called Sampling. very common in the hip hip world, where you take an old tune, or melody and use it as a hook, and build on it. Different from remixing, where they take a whole song and just add an extra layer of beats. On the song with Dhanush, it’s a thin line between sampling and remixing, whereas the barber shop song is definitely only sampling and not a remix.
MIA’s Jimmy is a sample, as is Bamboo Banga (she samples a tune from thalapathy). A lot of the BEP songs have Kalyanji-Anandji samples, and ofcourse the whole kaliyon ka chaman sample. There’s plenty of this stuff out there.
Check out this French horror movie “Sheitan” with Vincent Cassel. some pretty good french hiphop, and there’s a song that samples ARRahman’s song from gentleman – the wottagam song, and they sampled the tamizh version and not the hindi “roop suhana lagta hai.” pretty cool movie too.
Going back to the malay Biggies, they rap well in tamizh and have been able to lend the language that flow. It’s the rest of the production and beats that I feel don’t sound fresh. They are emulating and not synthesizing, to create something new. With a good producer, i think they can put out a good hiphop record, that can match some of the best stuff coming out of Nigeria or Cuba these days. mainstream American hiphop is shite.
As for Tamizh, a lot of effort and loosening of the tongue aided by alcohol went into teaching me how to pronounce that godforsaken of a beautiful alphabet, special to Tamizh and Malayalam. In honor of the person that taught me, I say “zha” and refuse to bastardize it.
Interesting aside…the Slovenians have the closest sound to this that I have ever heard. The same tongue roll required to say “zha” is employed in their language to pronounce the Slovenian Capital – LjubLJAna.
Earned me brownie points for getting it right the first time, thanks to a Tamizhan.
Oh
@dabba
i knew it was not remix .. tats why i said “almost like remix” but ya i dint know the word “sampling” .. ya i have heard the same sampling in eminem’s songs too !!
i believe he did the sampling to aerosmith’s “dream on”
but i dont know why .. EMINEM is the only rapper i njoy other than our desi ones like “YOBI B” and “BLAZE”
i hate 50 cents, hate “kanye west” and how does “snoop dog” even qualify ??
guys in US .. is rock dead ??
there is so much of BUZZ arnd hip hop and RnB
wat abt ROCK .. the good old rock … 2 years back i was soo happy to see U2 and Greeday rule the grammy.
but now its all betwn hip hop and rnb!!!
coutry music somehow manages to survive !!!thro carrie and tim mc graw
and i was soo heart broken wen i listened to inrainbows … radio head too moved away from their rock roots!!
wats wrong with metallica ? GnR? aerosmith?
howver i see hope when i listen to “my chemical romamce”, “muse” and “greenday” they may not even reach the bench mark set by few legends .. but still there is hope !!!
i had to revisit this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdRd3k4CIAg
led zep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVJ6kK4Edk
George
Rock is not dead.
Radiohead & Coldplay are probably two of the biggest bands in the world. There are tons of bands. But none are reaching the superstar status of earlier days. Because they have too much competition from other kinds of music. Besides I think the New Age rock of Linkin Park & Korn types have really driven away a lot of rock fans. Me for sure. The newer artists have have indie sound. They can only have a limited amount of fans. The “Rock Sound” that you are looking for is too boring now.
Let me give you some new names.
You can check them out on www.hypem.com or myspace.
ARCADE FIRE
LCD SOUNDSYSTEM
AMY WINEHOUSE
MODEST MOUSE
BLOC PARTY
SIGUR ROS
SPIRITUALISED
THE DANDY WARHOLS
Merrymaking, love chasing,
at my place, baby,
at my place merrymaking,
Come in to my house,
you’re invited into my house,
entering the back of my house,
welcoming you into my house,
I’ve invited loads to my house,
loads of people come to my house,
They take stuff inside of my house,
And smoke chuff outside of my house,
Merrymaking, drug taking,
at my place, baby, at my place
merrymaking,
:d/
@ mainak
i cant digest linkin park !!!
ya thanks man .. wil check them out !!
way to go !!! mainak !!!
MERRYMAKIN … i am on my way to ur house !!!
I’ve seen them before,
lots of people at my front door,
lots of people in my front door,
trying to get into my house,
Well I’ve seen them before,
lots of people in my front door,
lots of people at my front door,
trying to get into my house,
Merrymaking, love chasing,
at my place, baby, at my place
merrymaking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jVCOumbXdU
@dabba
:-) ZHA ki jai
Dabba & Dpac
The DVD’s recieved today -
BEFORE THE DEVIL KNOWS (Marissa Tomeii is naked & getting fucked) You’re DEAD
RESERVATION ROAD
EASTERN PROMISES
LUST, CAUTION or (Tony’s Leung’s Balls for 3 seconds)
TALK TO ME
THE GREAT DEBATERS
:”>
thank god i at least have 3 of those…!!!
for the rest – expect another break in (this time by goons on my payroll)
@ mainak
You are going DOWN brotha. Down.
@ george –
BLOC PARTY is among the best new rock acts to come out.
the sound ur looking for is the arena spandex rockers of teh 70s and hair metal of the 80s. Cobain put a bullet thru that before doing himself in. u gotta move on.
but the rockers of today are whiny little runts, too much emo and pop rock.
@mainak..
would it be possible to send a copy of some of them with someone??
@ DPac –
Take a number and stand in line!
Well Dpac
I have burned 30 DVDs for PFC Mumbai. Was planning to burn more. But my Laptop incident stopped the process. Now i’m looking for someone in LA who might be going to India. So I can send the movies through them.
I was planning to Fed Ex them. But people advised me to send them in batches of 3. Which will turn out very expensive. So KK , Wasan & others will have to wait a bit longer.
P.S Carandiru is one of them.
Dpac
I just fixed one of my door today. So Bring It On!
nah !!! as loong as fedex works i will call the goons off
another option varun is there…..
@153 read a review by Nigel Andrews, who cant stop praising the film…..app Brad Boy did a great job?
Has Anyone seen this 1962 Samurai Movie HARAKIRI?
Going to watch it just now.
Just fnished watching McCabe & Mrs. Miller. Quite interesting.
Dabba, George, Qwerty, Dpac
You guys have to watch this 1962 Samurai Film HARAKIRI. Its brilliant. Its directed by Masaki Kobayashi. Its a CRITERION COLLECTION Double DVD set.
Also watched Antonioni’s BLOW-UP finally.
Very interesting statement on the shallowness of the Swinging 60’s Hipster life of London.
“HARAKIRI” added to must watch list !!!
neway guys have anyone of you seen “the exterminating angel”??
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056732/
heard a lot abt it!!! lemme know
Thanks George
seems like a very interesting concept.
will watch it soon
meanwhile tell me what you think of this artist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPC13wAHdX4
good one Mainak !! u seem to like teh more catchy numbers !!!
do u njoy A R rahman ?? if u dont plss dont talk ill abt him cause i love him !!!
hey guys Dabba, Mainak, D pac …
I bought a Pana GS last yr .. a 3 CCD camcorder … it has a mic jack, i dont think it will be feasible for me to go for dubbing (budget and lack of experienced actors) so do u have ne info as to what kinda mic ph i cud use for syn recordin .. esp for indoor sequences!!! cause there is lot of noise indoors …
neway i am tryin to find out details here too .. i thot i wud ask the same to u guys n see if i get some thing much more interesting !!!
George
I loved Rahman at one point. Now I will refrain from commenting since you asked me so. Just Watch ELIZABETH: The Golden Age to know what I’m talking about.
George you didnt say what you thought of that song & the artist? He is a very good friend of mine.
BTW he is in a film school in Sydney right now. You know why? Because he is fed of others screwing up his music videos. So he went to a cheap school where they use film.
George
Thats the same Camera that by Swedish neighbor took from me.:)
As far as mikes I used Sennheiser 416 in my last short film. I was quite pleased with it.
To know more about mics I suggest this amazing website to you –
www.howstuffworks.com
;)
Dabba
The ASSASINATION OF JESSE JAMES BY THE COWARD ROBERT FORD is one of the best films of this year. It is so well directed. Andrew Dominick is definitely one of the most talented 40 yr old director in town. I’m very curious about him. He made that mindblowing CHOPPER which made ERIC BANA into a superstar, And didnt make a film for 6 years. Now he makes this. He is hopefully a guy with a lot of integrity.
ROGER DEAKINS is definitely winning the OSCAR for Best Cinematography this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWMLGqtUoi0
hey Mainak in my previous post “good one Mainak !! u seem to like the more catchy numbers !!!” this was abt the song … but dint know he was ur friend so dint care to write abt the artist … I thot he was good (thou i prefer a more natural voice ) but why isnt he studyin music ???
and thanks a lot for that site … it was very useful ;)
will keep “Sennheiser 416″ in my mind .. thank u
Anytime George!
Anytime!
He doesn’t need to study music anymore. He has mixed music for the late Nusrat Fateh ali Khan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W16qzZ7J5YQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWwcBcqkbSY&feature=related
MAINAK
“I loved Rahman at one point” “The
wow worked with Nusrat fateh ali khan … wow
tats toooo good !!!
man WAAAAAASSSUUUUPPPPP !!!!!
I can’t blame you for being stuck in a Time ZONE!
Its hard to find good music from rest of the world. Esp since that ALEX Kuruvilla took over MTV.
You have to keep exploring music online.
About Rahman… some other time. I gotta go to work now.
WAZZZZUUUUPPPP! is so old!
WHAT ARE YOU DOINGGGGGGG? thats the new deal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DkIk2NKEHs&feature=related
MAN u needed to do tat … to make me realise “GEORGIEEE get movin !!!!
B T W .. i have seen those before ;)
Dabba & esp. Qwerty
What do you guys think of the 08 elections. Who do you guys want to win & who will win?
@ mainak –
i don’t follow any news, politics in general, and elections in particular. Not exactly a big fan of democracy, but it will do for now. Never voted in my life. No one in my family has ever voted.
I’m too far gone to come back.
Mainak…as far as the elections go, ANY elections for that matter, it’s not the issue of who to vote for but who NOT to vote for…unfortunately that is the state of affairs today. I think within the given systemic constraints Hilary and/or Obama might be half decent…
The real mavericks like Ron Paul would not stand a chance in hell, but hey, you never know, JFK won and poor bastard got gunned down.
As far as Antonioni goes, please watch ‘L’Avventura’, ‘L’Eclisse’ and ‘Il Deserto Rosso’(preferably late,late night), call it ‘art’ cinema’call it whatever you will, he was a true poet with a camera. He once said he works backwards from the images, lets the images dictate the state of affairs rather than the other way around..as is usually he case.
Dabba, sorry for the late response , I just got back yesterday from a location recce in Zapatista country, Chiapas..fascinating place.
As far as development hell goes, it happens to all unhelmed, studio driven films…that are not initiated by a powerful director. Because at the end of the day it’s a business, just as any other, and they have to make sure the product sells to the lowest common denominator. Big Macs sell a lot more than filet mignons…so what if they taste like shit and rot your intestines…
Re what I worked on, it was mostly studio action films…money making spectacles. My first was ‘Gone In Sixty Seconds’, the second was ‘Changing Lanes’…both were rewritten a dozen times, by people like Andrew Kevin Walker,Scott Frank,Jan Cohen etc…uncredited of course. Each time a ’script doctor’ polishes a piece, he is paid a minimum of $100,000.00. Most optioned/purchased scripts spend years in development, are rewritten beyond recognition and then never see the light of day….Even someone as acclaimed as Coppola struggled for a whole DECADE to make his metaphysical sci-fi extravaganza, and then had to give up. It will never get made.
@ qwerty – it’s the re-writes that earns these writers their bread. i don’t think andrew kevin walker has a single produced credit after 7. But hey you sell the spec to become eligible for re-write jobs, and you stand a very good chance if your sold spec actually gets produced.
i have a friend who is a good screenwriter. his spec got him an agent and a manager but it never sold. he doesn’t get any re-write assignments because he is yet to sell something, and his manager won’t return his calls. Still waiting on that sale.
@ qwerty – you are not talking about Coppola’s Youth without Youth are you? that just came out.
no, youth without youth was what he decided to do…go back to his indie roots, after the big project fizzled out. It’s beautiful cinema though….definitely my cup of tea,…
@ qwerty – haven’t had a chance to catch it yet. hopefully it will still be playing in a coupla weeks.
Qwerty
I’m definitely gonna watch your recomendations. Infact Last time I was in a library I did look for them. Right now I’m down with unbearable toothache for last 3 days & trying to deal with it in the cheapest way since i don’t have insurance.
When I asked who you support, wouldn’t that cover their policies & what they stand for too?
I’m watching JESUS CAMP right now.
Dabba
I just watched the 1st 4 Episodes of DEF JAM of season 1. Hosted by Mos Def.
Its so tight.
My fav so far was Suheir Hammad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fhWX2F6G7Y
This one reminded me of you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lxhxXGG4j8
Dave Chappelle is always funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHbVu3ienHk
Good Morning Dabba
For you & George
The artist of today would be BONOBO
http://hypem.com/search/Bonobo/1/
@ mainak –
how does hypem work? i tried listenin to the song, but it wouldn’t play. guess i’m tarded like that.
i can take def jam only in small doses. i get dragged to similar things in new york cos someone’s friend is reading poetry. they are of course no where as good as the def jam folks…
I know what you mean. Too much open mikes & stand ups can drain you. I never go unless its a friend whom i’m giving moral support.
Hypem is simple. Just click PLAY.
You use Firefox right?
Safari….Oops, i’m starting to really out myself here. Do i need Firefox to view it? i clicked play and it didn’t play
Dabba
I assumed that you are using the best browser out there. And also supporting the spirit of the underdog.
But I forgot, you don’t care about this world! \:)
@ mainak -
someone’s got to educate me on these things. nobody tells me so i’m completely out of the loop. will use FireFox.
dabba… u r one big IDIOT with some skill for the narrative :-)
“nobody tells me so i
DPac –
u are catching on. I am dabba.
i am still checking the links posted above, thanks to you all ;)
mainak, how was ‘there will be blood ‘ experience?
SG
You are welcome.
I have not seen THERE WILL BE BLOOD. Want to watch it in theatres. Hence avoided the temptation of the DVD.
Watch CHARLIE WILSON’s WAR. Its the funniest political movie about the Cold War in ages.