Are Media Reviews Doctored?
iView Author:
Vivek Thakur (Bombay, India)
Email :
withheld
Are Media Reviews Doctored?
To start with, its 2 in the afternoon and there is no review of “Aaja Nachle” on any of the websites.
Hmm…
You cannot blame a person for being dumb…can you? But you can blame people for being inconsistent and dishonest towards there profession. Being a journalist (not in the case for the person I am writing about) there has to be a passion for work because by being journalist one works more for himself then for the organization he/she is drawing salary from. So if the person is not honest to his/her work he/she is not honest to himself/herself rather then to his/her audience. This is a basic sentiment, which I am trying to harp upon when I am writing this article. I have been reading all the reviews everywhere about Indian movies. I have gone to an extent of translating reviews published in German and French to see how audience reacts to the movies.
That is why I read Mr. Adarsh. Am I trying to defend myself? May be! I think Mr. Taran Adarsh is true median for the universe of average moviegoers. When I sit in an autorikshaw I can actually relate with what Mr. Adarsh writes in his “reviews” or rather his reflections on the hard labor of moviemakers. The best part of his writing is the last part of his review where in he summarizes his review for the readers who do not have patience to read the entire piece or are “anglo-challanged”. The section is suitably titled as “on-the-whole”.
So I am not going to criticize his ability to write reviews as I read him for different reasons and secondly he is a trade analyst not a film critique. The only person who is so inspired by Filmfare that in certain cases he gives two rating, one, which I assume, is a commercial rating and second is a critique rating. I fail to understand the system, that’s why I clarified before hand that you cannot blame people for being dumb. So please do not blame ME.
Coming to the second statement of mine, which says, “But you can blame people for being inconsistent and dishonest towards there profession.” Since I was waiting for the review of Aaja Nachle on both Rediff and Indiafm I realized that I was waiting with same impatience when Fanaa was released. So I decided to dig out more i.e. the time when Yash Raj Movies review appeared on the website (in this case IndiaFM). Then I picked up some random movies and tried to dig out the same. And the result is suggestive; if it’s not then throws me rotten tomatoes.
Time at which review appeared on website
YASH RAJ MOVIES
| Chak De India | 17:18 |
| Ta Ra Rum Pum | 18:29 |
| Bunty aur Bubbly | 16:14 |
| Dhoom 2 | 17:29 |
| Veer Zaara | 16:21 |
| Salaam Namaste | 16:40 |
| Kabul Express | 16:34 |
| Jhoom Barabar Jhoom | 16:15 |
| Laaga Chunari main Daag | 16:43 |
| Fanaa | 16:55 |
No review is published before 16:00, may be as per the instruction.
NON YASH RAJ MOVIES (Random selection)
| Good Boy Bad Boy | 13:00 |
| Hattrick | 12:59 |
| Life in a…Metro | 13:00 |
| No Smoking | 13:04 |
| Darna Zaroori Hai | 11:19 |
| Don | 10:50 |
| Saawariya | 10:32 |
| Omkara | 13:34 |
Now there could have been reasons once or twice, but every time? May be Yash Raj does organize special screening for critics after the first show is over but as a critique does it not his/her responsibility that he/she should publish the review at the same time for all the movies. It’s a know fact that if your movies reviews comes pretty soon and it’s bad, its bad for the box-office. From the data above what its seems is that Yash Raj seems to be playing safe since all the review of there movies have come after 4 in the evening, which means that people have already seen first three shows and people who have not read the review till now will most probably will read in ToI on Sunday morning.
This inconsistency in India FM and its front line movie critique Mr. Taran Adarsh that piques me. I do not have no problems with what he writes in his reviews, because once you come to accept that he is not a critique and not even a good trade analyst for that matter, you tend to take him as anybody on the street who may have a view point. But being dishonest to a profession and conveniently circumventing the protocol to benefit someone is a very big crime, if proven.
And finally the review of “Aaja Nachle” arrives 3 and half hours after the appointed time, more like a arrogant and indifferent MEGA STAR. It says, * half star but by now three shows are already over and no body cares. Interestingly to read a review from Rediff you have to pay your cell phone service provider.
I assume there soon will be reviews on www.yashrajfilms.com!
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Sahi hai. Khod khod ke evidence nikal hi daala. Kudos to you. :D
Maybe Yashraj doesn’t do any press screenings and that’s why the reviewer has to see the first/second show, write the review and then get it published – which could mean watching the first show, writing the review, publishing which in total could mean 4 to 5 hours. so perhaps that’s why Yashraj’s reviews get published after 4.
For non yashraj, perhaps all the mentioned movies did have special press screenings or such and hence the review is ready to be published on the day of the film’s release which is easily available and hence gets online before 4pm…
Not sure… just trying to see all angles here.
Very Interesting points that you make here.I however see Oz’s point as well…
I agree with your comment that Mr. Taran Adarsh is true median for the universe of AVG
moviegoer.
But I am never able to understand why does he give out the entire story/climax in his review.
It’s supposed to be a review and not a spoiler.
He has been consistently doing it for many movies.
So I just read the first 2 and last 2 lines of his review.
Point taken boss,
Nice observation…
Absolutely Sudeep .. I agree that Taran Adarsh is a total spoiler …
even i was thinking the same way when i could not see the reviews on time as that of other movies.
Om Shanti Om review got published one day before and so it did for a lot of movies. So, I guess Oz’s point makes more sense.
I am not trying to contest with OM as he has a valid point but I will try to make my point much more clear.
First coming to what turrtle says:
“Om Shanti Om review got published one day before and so it did for a lot of movies. So, I guess Oz
There’s another angle to this whole story….Rediff for it’s part went completely gaga over Om Shanti Om….it’s reviewers (including Raja Sen) wrote eulogies for the film and I remember reading 3 reviews of the film….none of which spoke on negative word about it…..but when it came to the other Diwali release they completely lambasted it…..Om Shanti Om didn’t get such glaring reviews on any other site….
Good Observation. my only request towards all the critics are that please please write a line which says. that whatever is written below is the writers personal observation or point of view.then they can write whatever the fuck they want to.
I’m a film critic myself and I write for one of the largest media houses in the country. I was disturbed to read this post because it reeks of such ignorance and there’s a certain smugness that the writer’s trying to display.
Let me tell you Yashraj films (ive hated three out of their four releases this year) make it a point not to have press previews, special screenings, anything of the sort before the Friday of the film’s release. They even make sure NO critics or journalists manage to attend a star’s preview of their films. they are known to drive out critics who may even have been personally invited by a star of that film.
On the friday of a film’s release, most films have an early morning (10am / 11am) show at the multiplexes in the metros, but yashraj films have their first screening at 12 noon — never earlier. their own press screening of the film is scheduled for 11am on a friday morning, but never begins before 11.30am and throw in a half-hour interval and you’re not out of that hall before 3 or 3.30pm. a critic requires at least an hour to commute to his place of work or to his computer and will require at the bare minimum another hour and a half to dash out a review. add that time and you’ll understand why yashraj films dont get reviewed until late in the day on a friday.
its important for the writer of this piece to understand this before questioning the integrity of film critics.
about taran adarsh specifically and his review of OSO, the deal is, taran was invited to a preview of the film on tuesday and he loved it, and hence decided to splash the review on a thursday which i agree is unfair. he saw saawariya on wed at the premiere, and could have put out that review on thursday as well but didnt bec he hated the film and didnt want to run a scathingly critical review before the film’s release. it may be warped logic, but you have to admire his “noble” intentions.
the point im making here is, critics arent sold out to any producer, yashraj or otherwise. and its unfair to assume so just because of some ill-informed, ignorant, half-baked observations like the writer of this piece seems to have made.
Yup, Oz is right.
YashRaj doesn’t ever have press screenings or premieres, so we traipse out of theatres after the first show, usually stupefied, head to office and then type out our reviews asap.
As for Rony’s point: does it really need to be spelled out? Isn’t the fact that a review is an opinion something you should know to begin with?
also, i’d like to say to ronny d’costa — dude, the whole meaning of a review is “personal opinion”. please dont assume everyone is as ignorant as you are.
@Mr Movie Critic and Mr Raja Sen,
Thank you very much for sharing this valuable information to bring the clear picture before the readers.
Not only author of the post but thousands of the people might not be knowing the real picture and for that fact, thanks to the author whose post brought truth before all the readers.
This factor should not be ignored. Author has put a big question mark in the title of his post and he is also presenting some data which he observed. Data is true but meaning associated with that data may not be true and you guys have pointed out towards that part of truth.
–
This will be naive to assume that critic’s opinions are always personal because then they dont need to put their advise in the end, that “Stay away from this film”. Personal opinions dont shower advises. Just personal opinion.
Thanks for lending on PFC and telling all the clear picture.
i am not against taran adarsh or that matter Raja sen …Taran is for masses while Raja Sen is for classes
….anyways .. how can someone give 5 stars to a dud like kabhie khushi kabhie gum …that was beyond my understanding …it was khalid mohammad i guess for toi …
This is very good on part of Yash Raj Films that they dont invite any reviewer for special screening. When audience can see films directly then whats the need to invite few people who could play priest between product and user?
Whats the whole point of writing reviews on same day than to affect the business of the films (+ve and -ve directions)?
A film analyst can analyse the film after 2-3 days when he has understood the film completely.
Its stupid to accept that a film critic can do full justice to a complex film like “Hey Ram” by seeing its first day first show and writing about just after first show and spending only 1-1.5 hours on analysing such a film. ;)
Thanks for letting us know how things work at Yashraj, but we shouldn’t be unfair to the author of this post…he seems to have had a genuine query, went through the pain for collecting data…it’s Ok yaar!!! Don’t run him down. Atleast, we are an enligthened lot now
@Anand,
when these commercial reviewers [just now we read views of Mr Movie Critic (?) and Mr Raja Sen] accept that they write personal views about the films they watch and their reviews should be taken as their personal views only and not as efforts to affect the opinion of readers then what difference does that make which reviewer gave how many stars to some films ?
An individual sees a film for his own reasons. Mr Khalid Mohammad might have seen KKKG as a family subject film and might have liked it for that reason. Not always critics can see the films with hope that how this film has moved ahead whole of the cinema!
If a Raj Kapoor will watch a film he is not going to give 5 star to a film depicting violence because in his personal opinion showing Violence is the biggest harm films can do to audiences.
Same way different people can have different opinion. I think readers read much more than the required in these reviews given in daily newspapers on every friday.:-?
@Aditi, ya thats the point that due to Vivek’s post and his collected data people got to know the reality behind the review process.
Hi Vivek,
It seems your first article is generating a lot oh heat.Interesting conspiracy theory i would say. However there have been film reviews of other production houses which came after a long time gap. However this maybe due to various reasons whatsover. A certain commentor Moviecritic says that none of the shows of Yash raj starts before 11:30 a.m but then how was Dhoom’s review released on 27th aug 2004 posted at 12:25? Well in that scenario Mr. Critic is wrong and your theory has a loophole or an exception or maybe Mr Adarash was not paid this time?
i think it would have made more sense , if the author would have included the rating which taran gave to each movie . of that list , as far as i remeber , taran gave a -ve review to jhoom barabara jhoom , laga chunari mein daag and well even chak de india .
what sense does it make to delay the review even by few hours ?!! you are just delaying the inevitable fate by 2 or 3 shows ,its not going to save the film if it has no merits … i think explaination by moviecritic should be suffice to settle this .
Did Mayawati call PFC and ask them to delete the posts written by Krysh (Whose Lyrics Is It Anyway) and one more author on Aaja Nachle? :D
Was are these posts deleted?
“A certain commentor Moviecritic says that none of the shows of Yash raj starts before 11:30 a.m but then how was Dhoom
@Machchar,
there seems to be some technical problem w.r.t Krysh’s post. as matter is seen when see on main page but when click the title to read full post, error message comes.
Second post, (Mansavi’s) may be coming in 2 hours to maintain a gap of atleast 2 hours between two successive posts.
To add further , i feel that yes! as RK, suggested that for a true analytical review its does require a little more time.But most reviewers in India speak or try to see what mostly the masses or the average public would feel after seeing a movie. Hence they are often right in praising a dud like “K3G” or “Fanaa” which even Aamir accepts to be one of his least favourite roles/portrayal. before lambasting a reviewer we also have to understand the media they work for. Todays TOI or some of these newssites are what the common public demands. Its about entertaining news at a superfast pace. its who got it first rather than quality. In such a scenario , the more quality film oriented public hardly follow what a Taran Adarsh says while choosing his movies. But yes the hard fact is that TOI is the most sold daily in the world and and some of these sites do have a high visiting and these posts do have followers. This kind of divide is there in every field. (Microsoft, Apple… ). My point is Mr. Adarsh is just part of the system and he says what the majority might say. I think its very unfair to criticize these people when they do not even require to be mentioned, if you really undersatnd your movie.
A good start Vivek, hope you keep writing…and boss you have waay too much time in hand to have dug out such data… Have mercy and quit your job and get your script published..
Abhishek:d:)>-
“As for Rony
Apologies for asking a very stupid question but
What is the purpose of writing a review in the press? What does the reviewer / critic expect to get out of it? What’s the expected benefit for the reader?
@Anannya Deb,
They get money to run their house/kitchen or money extra than their other regular source of money which they can spend in a way they like. Nobody is writing for free in TOI; HT; Rediff or India FM or those guys who appear in electronic media. Its just their job like anybodyelse’s job and hence it should be taken that way only.:)
—
Dont we see now in newspapers that few people have started writing on consumer items which company has launched what kind of products.
Film criticism at present basically is one form of film journalism. No doubt some guys know very good language and hence they present so ordinary commercial stuff in a complex form like a jalebi:)
In literature no good analyst is going to write analysis of detective or social novels sold at bus stops and railyway stations. Though these books also need advertisement so that their readers know when new book is coming from their favourite author. But given media’s active nature, time can be there where many people will start writing analysis of these pocket books also.
News papers have to cover all the possible events so no section of readers is left untouched.:d
Hope PFC takes a quantum leap and posts are not prepared on every released film- no matter which big production house is producing the film.
Thanks RK for the eyeopening answers ;)
I wonder if reviews really swing audience votes any more – SRK fans would go out and see OSO, irrespective of what the reviews are. I wonder whether any Rajnikant fans would stay away from a Rajni film (Maybe the reviewer who dares to write any thing bad about the film may have to stay away from Chennai):d
What I would really yearn for are deep explorations into cinema as a craft, a form of expression and / or way of life, the kind Francois Truffaut did on Alfred Hitchcock’s work or Ray did on his peers like Kurosawa and Fellini.
@Anannya,
and I thought I accompanied you in this laughing business where you were standing with laughing on face and widened eyes and I also joined you:)
You are right about die hard fans but there are many audience who are not blind followers of anyone and they dont want to spend their money on any and every film and they have to know something about the film before they go on spending minimum 150Rs. Earlier films used to stay for longer duration in cinema halls so people used to get to know through early watchers.
Now whole economic circus belongs to first 3 days so producer does not want any negative review in those 3 days and criticvs have to prove they also have existence in this callous businessminded world. so this rassakasi is going on and on:d
You are very right, for serious study one would go for people who know cinema.
Why a good analyst would spend his energy to write an article on bhool bhuliya, hey baby etc?
What is so extra ordinary there which normal audience cant see ? Every body can understand everything happening there on screen. So a senior film critic, who has exp. of more than 25-30 years in film criticism, writing a review of normal commercial fare is like selling vegetables all his life on a thela with no progress at all.:((
To set record right,
one writer “Paresh C Palicha” used to write ( on rediff) mostly about Malyalam cinema and he used his writing skills to shed light on Malayali Cinema.
He wrote what should be written on cinema bsed articles. Even if he wrote reviews of the films he remained in his own league. None of his article seemed written under the market pressure or to impress unnecessary his readers. Simple but to the point.
Paresh , where are you, join PFC man.
Comment 17 – @Anand Kadam
If I remember correctly, in his review of K3G, Khalid had clearly stated that the movie deserves 3 stars and 2 stars for Karan Johar for shouldering the huge, huge responsibility of giving the “appropriate” screen times to the biggest stars – Bacchan, SRK, Kajol, Kareena and Hrithik and still making a good film. There you are.
Comment 11 – @Arijit
Rediff will usually have an entire section devoted to any major star release – good or bad.
I doubt Raja Sen’s or Sukanya Verma’s opinion on the movie would be influenced by anybody at all. Its entirely possible that they both liked the movie (as did countless others, moi included) .. No ?
Add to that, a story/fact that I read on PFC, that the AGGAR team was offering money to anybody who wrote a good review. Now, I am sure, “somebody” must have compromised there.
And Mr.Angry Young Moviecritic – dont defend your entire clan .. are you saying that NO movie critics ever sold out to the producers ?
If thats true, yours is the honestest profession thats ever existed. What say ?
I work for a big media organisation too, and I know how things work. We carry film reviews only on the Friday cinema pages.
We have a policy of not reviewing movies for which press shows are not held. So if a press screening is not held, we do not carry a review whoever the producer or however big the movie is.
Also, some producers hold screenings only a couple of days after their movie opens because they hope to get a good opening, which might otherwise be affected by negative reviews. In such cases, we carry the review on the coming Friday.
Another fact of life. Many PROs who organise the film reviews routinely pass out envelopes containing money along with the publicity material. I have seen this happen at many screenings; so I know that the reviews written by such people are surely compromised.
@Venky ..
Producer throws an attitude – Press ? Who are they ?
And the press throws an attitude – ABC Film ? Which film is that ?
What sense does that policy make ?
RAJA SEN & MOVIECROTIC POST HAVE DIFFERENCE OF 1 MIN. ARE THE IP’S OF THE COMPUTER SAME OR ARE THEY SAME PEOPLE…. :d/
Arijit,
whoever has written good things about OSO on any website, is either out of his mind or is sold. It is an outright attempt to insult the decade of the 70’s / 80’s cinema ( hiding under a mask of a tribute to that period ) – IMHO
Just one more point to add. Movies in Dubai are released 24 hours prior to India. Does this make any sense to anybody ?
kpc you have a point, but sadly it goes against the critics.
either they are flying every Thursday to Dubai to watch screening or someone else is writing for them from Dubai. I think the first scenario is possible but not practical for critics. Second scenario I hope is not happening.
“the point im making here is, critics arent sold out to any producer, yashraj or otherwise. and its unfair to assume so just because of some ill-informed, ignorant, half-baked observations like the writer of this piece seems to have made.”
Sorry “moviecritic”, hope u were courageous enough to mention your name and not hiding behind a pseudo, to have missed out on your comment. I wanted it to hurt u like when it hurt us when u give movies like “Buddha Mar Gaya” 3 stars. If you will give out your name I will dig out the information about you and will be able to make a suitable reply.
Well have you read comment number 37 by Venky? Do you refute it?
Vivek: “You need to be qualified as any other professional may be like a doctor or an engineer. Why not my chai wala Kalluram can write a review for India FM or rediff? What makes him different from movie critics? He is also as passionate about movies as much as anybody else.”
I personally do believe your chaiwallah is as qualified as the next person to write a review.
This is tantamount to saying there should be specific qualifications for directing movies or — more apt here — writing blogposts. I mean, come on. Let everyone do their own thing.
–
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Raja, which means my Chaiwala can operate on me too. Right?
@Raja Sen:
When you are getting paid for writing, you do need to have credentials to do that fairly. Else why can’t just anybody qualify to be an umpire in a cricket match? Almost everybody knows the rules.
Its rather sad that media houses do not fire reviewers like Nikhat kazmi who have been caught plagiarising part content of her review from foreign news channel sites. (Monster Inc review to be precise) . its really high time media houses question the credentials of the movie critics too who dole out personal grudges like the one written by Khalid Mohammed for No Smoking .
how ironic it is that even as we debate ethics, responsibilities and qualifications of critics, a detailed ‘early’ review of the as-yet-unreleased Khoya Khoya Chand which was posted on the site just hours ago, has been mysteriously been pulled down.
what happened? did Sudhir Mishra use his clout to get the review pulled off? is the site on the payroll of the film’s producer? did the critic sell out?
answer these questions before asking them of others.
simplystupid – just for the record,the review that nikhat kazmi plagarised was the review of the film “shark’s tale” and it wasnt from some ‘foreign news channel site’. it was from roger ebert’s review that appeared in the chicago sun times.
do a little research before throwing your weight around. or you just end up living upto your username.
Thanks for correcting me on that.
I just happen to remember certain bits of facts which i read long time back.
So most people in the industry do know about this and yet we see these same people continuing writing each week. I am sure your frustration towards me and the people questioning, stems from the fact that we questioned the merits of Indian movie critics of todays and for which you have no answers and looking for diversion and hence the rants.:-?
though i agree that liking a film is a very personal affair but when a movie critic reviews a film he has to try and make a demarcation between his personal likes and dislikes and an objective analysis of the film….case in point (since Raja Sen is here) in some media reviews of Om Shanti Om (Rediff/CNN IBN) since the reviewers found the film to their liking they very conveniently overlooked all the flaws in the film….i remember reading an article by Raja Sen comparing the self indulgent traits in “No Smoking” and “Saawariya”…that article was where i though the reviewer completely went overboard sacrificing all objectivity. A film reviewer should never advise the audience to stay away from a film or to give a film a miss…..that is not his/her job…
Movie critic, somehow it seems you want us to stop asking questions. Why?
Yes, someone will ask the producers of KKC on certain other platform or post by the review being mysteriously pulled down and thanks for raising the topic. If nobody does, please you take the initiative to write an article around it but for whoever’s sake do not ask people to stop questioning the status quo and let mediocrity in making the movies and reviewing them be the order of the day.
Movie critic, somehow it seems you want us to stop asking questions. Why?
Yes, someone will ask the producers of KKC on certain other platform or post why the review being mysteriously pulled down and thanks for raising the topic. If nobody does, please you take the initiative to write an article around it but for whoever’s sake do not ask people to stop questioning the status quo and let mediocrity in making the movies and reviewing them be the order of the day.
“do a little research before throwing your weight around. or you just end up living upto your username.”
Movie critic, mind your language before people start calling you names.
moviecritic the review was taken off on my behest as i feel it’s unfair to put a review before the release allowing the audience to judge it on their own..
@ moviecritic!!!!!
sudhir mishra aur “clout” ehehehhe
bahut badiyaaaaa….
idhar kissiko kuch clout nahin hai bhaaaai….
‘idhar’ ke waaasiyon ko laga ki thoda time dena chahiye before movie reviews tho time diya….
sab blog hai bhai sab blog hai!!!
@ Arijit
Yes i agree, a reviewer should write objectively about the various aspects of the movie. He should give out only what the audience can expecpt from the movie.But at no point personal biases towards directors ,actors, production houses should be reflected in the review. but these days you find most reviewers going gaga over certain directors and actors for no apparent reason. I do find this kind of writing amateurish and unprofessional on the parts of the critics.
@mr raja sen…..
please nobody is questioning anybodys right to an opinion here…
par to call oneself a critic or reviewer on account of that ??!!!!! pathetic….
haaan blog karlo…
reviewer/critic ka tho baaat hi alag hona chahiye…
Hi Anurag, since you are here, can you please let know if there was a pre release press screening for “No Smoking”
@Mr Moviecritic,
Being professional film critic, dont behave like a stupid fellow. People will ridicule your attitude. Because you are anonymous so your accusations dont fall under right category.
If you are ready to bear the heat then come with your real name and then ask same question and get accurate answer.
Dont behave like a veiled terrorist.
RK, right words at the right time as usual…
guys, im sorry if i sound like a petulant child, im not. i just find its very convenient on this site (which i love, and regularly visit bec its filled with some fantastic, passionate writing by people who genuinely seem to love cinema) to trash critics for pretty much everything that is wrong with films.
do visit rediff.com for a very well written q-n-a with two critics addressing so many questions about film criticism. there’s more in there than any one of us can sit and write here.
i love films just as much as anyone else on this site, and i love some of the filmmakers on this site despite the fact that theyve made some really lousy movies lately.
its very easy to generalise and trash all movie critics. how many people who post responses here have actually sat down and wrote in detail what they’ve felt about the movies they’ve liked, or hated or been disappointed in. do it, once in a while.
im not asking anyone to stop asking questions. thats ridiculous. im just saying, movie criticism is personal opinion, just as book criticism and food criticism and any sort of criticisim is. its become fashionable to trash critics if theyve enjoyed a ‘popular’ film with big stars.
guys, you should know more than anyone else that each is entitled to his or her opinion.
and finally, to fall back on the oldest argument ever, if you dont agree with a particular critic consistently, dont read him or her.
“answer these questions before asking them of others.”
Mr Movie critic , u sound more like Deewar’s ‘ pehle uska sign leke aao…) . U cannot even put a decent argument and u call yourself a professional critic working for one of the largest media houses? Really sad!!!
I think we should have something like a “rottentomatoes.com” website which will amalgamate all the possible reviews published and then give a barometer of how good or how bad a movie is.
I guess the problem here is that there arent enough reviewers to go around to make a whole some judgement about the merits of a movie.
PFC you could try to do something one the same lines , this way we could actually compare reviews and the decide for ourselves if the movie is good or bad.
@ $iDs,
As I see PFC is not about giving judgements about a film/ films in general. Its a discussion site and stress is always on pointing towards good points and bad points present in a film. Obvioulsy its again individual authors POV but some other also join or protest that POV and often it happens that author himself is able to change his views at the end or in middle of the discussion. Authors here are not professionally engaged with film criticism like These guys, Mr Raja Sen, Movie Critics, Bhardwaj Rangan , Nikaht (Nikhat?) Kazmi, Khaild Mohd. etc etc have been engaged and hence authors here at PFC are not part of THE LORD CRITICS who can send any film either in Heaven (if they like it) or Hell (if they dont like it). Authors of PFC are not earning like above mentioned professional film critics are earning from various sources like daily newspapers and rediff.com like sites. They may have their professional limitations which PFC authors dont have. People here dont have to please any filmmaker or production house.
On same day you can witness that a member of Chak De! India, film joins PFC and writes her first post and same day a post criticising CDI is published on PFC. Now that actress may or may not like this article (against CDI). Its her personal choice but PFC is not going in any single direction only. Though same article against CDI praises the mentioned actress so one has to be objective towards any article present on PFC.
Then there are many authors including featured authors who have loved CDI to a great extent. They may be having their reasoning for liking the film. But can we say PFC declared CDI is good or a bad film?
No various authors mentioned many good things present in CDI and at same time, many authors pointed out discrepencies and shortcomings present in the same film. Its up to the reader, what and how he reads articles here.
PFC is not judgemental site. Its wrong on any bodys part to expect that PFC will give final verdict about a film or about any film and same is true with any film personality.
To equate PFC with commercial site is not a justice towards PFC. :-?
@ movie critic
“and finally, to fall back on the oldest argument ever, if you dont agree with a particular critic consistently, dont read him or her.”
what do you do with a doctor who is giving wrong medicines every-now-and-then and ppl are suffering because of it? will you simply stop going to the doctor or will make sure that he/she stop practicing? or are you going to say that movie criticism is not as serious business as medicines.
RK and Ananya
I have seen umpteen times people discussing reviews at ticket counters — in fact the floating crowd at multiplexes does care about how many stars a movie gets. I think reviews do matter a lot to people while making a choice whether a movies is worth spending Rs 160-odd…At least the younger, college going, call centre-kind of crowd with disposable incomes does care and even my mother asks me to “wait for the review before blowing up money” on a film.
simplystupid – i am convinced now that you couldn’t have found a more apt username for yourself.
its hardly your business to fix the medical system or the media. why do you assume that you’re the smartest mind going around? if you’re so smart to figure out (and hence disregard) reviewers who are biased, partial, paid to write favourable reviews, why do you assume others aren’t? nobody’s forcing you or anyone else to follow the reviews that you read in the papers or on websites. but do allow every single person his or her opinion, even if you dont agree with that opinion, or suspect that that opinion is manipulated.
can we end this argument here? some of us have real jobs.
okay im genuinely sorry… that last post was directed towards vivek thakur, not simplystupid. please accept my apology simplystupid. it was an oversight that i regret
@aditi(65),
for such occasion-
“Sabki rachna mein jeevan ka arth bahut dhundhla hai
isliye hum asli nakli sab ke anuyayee hain
jivit shabdon mein kehne kee adat chhoot chuki hai
jaise taise sah lene mein samay gujar jata hai
isliye hum purab paschim sab ke anuyayee hain
idhar iudhar ki keh lene mein samay gujar jata hai
man ki maili chadar ka koi itihas nahin hai
isliye hum ate jate sabke anuyayee hain
[ Meaning of life is diffused in the creations of all
that is why we are followers of all, pure and impure
we have lost habit to say in words which are alive
we spend time bearing it some how
thats why we are followers of all, east and west
we spend time in discussing trivial matters
dirty sheet of consciousness is left with no history
hence we are followers of all- coming or going]
——-
Its a pathetic scene when young mind has to give attention to writing of people writing with commercial interest only about simple commercial films which even a child can understand on his own. Its pathetic scene. Which they can understand themselves and can decide better why they go for intermediate mediums.
But then heros are changed or we can say heros are not left so people are followers of anybody, anything and everything.:((:o
@ moviecritic
…huh! we are discussing this because we think that reviewing is a real job. its not a monkey that you or me want off our backs…do we?
now coming back to my “analogy” it proves that if such a thing happens atleast you would simply stop going to the doctor or I will as a conscientious citizen would raise my voice, which I am doing right now. I rest my case over here.
Glory be with you!
@Vivek,
Shut up, Shut Up just Shut up…..:)
How Glory can be with Mr Movie Critic. He is without name. For fame you need a name (%)
abhi to parde mein rehne do parda na uthao. let curtain be raised and then crown can be given to his head. Till then
~o) with Unknown!:-h
@ moviecritic
Sorry Movie Critic,the more I read your comments the more I am tempted to make my reply. Ek last reply boss…please do not mind.
“its hardly your business to fix the medical system or the media.”
There was a time when journalist were supposed to be the light of the nation. What ever happened?
There is something called (the term which is coined by Journalist/Media off course) “citizen journalism” or “citizen reporters”. Is it only a marketing jargon? Do you not want people to actually exercise it? If they can exercise it for politics and crime, why can’t they do it for media or medical systems?
Glory again be with you!
vivek thakur – make a film, you talk too much, make a film. or be a critic if you must. but shut up. you talk too much. do something. but shut up first.
I am now really curious who this Mr Movie Critic is who works for one of the largest media houses?
God help them !!!
Vivek- I guess there was a time when grandpa would suggest you to read Hindu, Statesman articles to build an opinion on various subjects under the sun and understand what journalism is.
Now with what Mr critic suggests , its all personal columns , cheap entertainment… too bad for people who believe it.
Cummon man please tell me who you are… and which media house you work for. I swear nobody reading will laugh… God Promise
Please show respect and start taking your profession a little seriously even if its for argument’s sake..
@moviecritic
dude! get a life! this guy made genuine queries and u’ve gone childishly defensive ever since. and yes, i can make a movie too. better than oso, i can guarantee you that.
just give me half an hour to write the script.
the biggest problem i have is that we see no differences of opinion among reviewers in india. that bugs me the most. i find it hard to fathom that every critic in india enjoyed oso.
and u can’t label your reviews as personal opinion man! u get paid for these reviews. These reviews genuinely make or break movies in india. i saw johnny gaddar only because of the great reviews it received.
it’s hard to believe that someone employed with one of the top production houses, can’t argue with a couple of amateur cinefanatics in a dignified way.
Also, tell me atleast one factor on the basis of which a person is qualified to become a film reviewer. I know of none. for me, khalid mohd. lost his credibility totally the day he made fiza. and he topped it with tehzeeb and silsilay. now how can he claim to have enough knowledge of cinema? if he can’t make half a worthwhile movie?
where’s the credibility man?
how can we trust you reviewers not to be cheating on ur readers? what kind of reviewers genuinely believe rakesh roshan or farah khan make good cinema?
heck! even farah khan knows she makes pulp!
and for heaven’s sake! please use ur true name as ur identity. if u believe u have enough credibility then u should be sure a couple of blog comments won’t harm your reputation.
@ K J
Hell, do I need to be qualified to “watch” a film. And then AFTER watching the film do I need to be “qualified” to form an opinion, and if I formed an opinion, do I need to be qualified to voice it/pen it ?
Why are we talking about qualifications at all ???? I agree with Raja Sen … the chaiwallah can be a reviewer. He has the right to an opinion and he has the right to voice it/pen it. Its a fucking free world ! Its upto you to decide whether you want to read it or not. And these guys get paid, BECAUSE their writing skills fetch them more eyeballs than the chaiwallah. Because they can articulate their opinion in a better way than the others. If people decide whether they should go to a movie or not, based only on the film reviews, they chose that option.
Why does Khalid become a bad reviewer, just because he made a BAD movie … ok, three BAD movies ? All of the featured authors here, the PFC commenters who send in articles/reviews thru projekt iview – they are all voicing their opinions. Very few amongst them make good movies. Are all of them “qualified” ? Should they stop voicing their opinions ? Should PFC stop publishing them ?
A dog WILL bark. Barking is its basic instinct. You can listen to it bark or walk away. I WILL write a film review. Its MY basic instinct (ya, well call it the second basic instinct, since I dont want to come across as averse to sex) to write. I dont care whether you consider me qualified or not. You can read it or you can ignore it.
Yeah, I agree with you in that Mr. Angry childish movie critic should get a life, but arent you being childish yourself when you say that you can make a better movie than OSO after just half an hour of writing a script ?
And you did not see differences of opinion on OSO – Check Baradwaj Rangan’s review for that -
http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2007/11/10/review-om-shanti-om-saawariya/
@ Vivek – “There was a time when journalist were supposed to be the light of the nation.”
Dont you think there is a difference between film journalism and writing a film review. Journalism is more about throwing unbiased light on things happening in the world, and a review is actually an opinion and a personal one at that, it will be biased, No ?
How can you compare the job of writing a review to that of “operating on a person” ? I fail to see the logic in that.
@ Movie critic – Man. You are childish. Period.
Did someone mention plagiarism!
What about Plagarism right here at PFC by one of the authors?
Take a look at.
http://passionforcinema.com/five-easy-pieces-chronicle-of-a-discontent/
and if like me you wonder why all of a sudden he is writing about Easy Rider instead of Five Easy Pieces
I have a question for Raja Sen /moviecritic
Why is it that there were 3 extermely negative reviews of Saawariya and 3 extremely glowing reviews of OSO were prominently displayed on the front page at rediff. Not only were the reviews posted on thursday BUT, a lot of negative headlines/reports( not reviews) about the movie were posted prominently( saawariya makes bombay sleep) countered by extremely glowing references to OSO( SRK rocks bombay!). That was blatantly transparent and disingenous.
Later when the public reviews were posted, all the negative reviews of Saawariya made it( which were pathetically written btw) where as I dont remember a single balanced review of OSO.
This was a rediff orchestrated hatchet job like nothing else and really brings into question the ethics of the writers on that site.
Now I liked OSO myself, it was quiet entertaining and time pass. But to kill a movie which is being released against it( so it has huge odds against it in any case) , which you as a reviwer did’nt get and then use derogatory language against the director is rather distasteful.And how does a director “ham”. Its an actor who “hams”.
I am curious as to what your reaction to/review of Devdas was, which had SRK at his hammiest!
Since SLB’s “hamminess” was quiet alright with the critics in his past ventures, how did it suddenly become a liability? Infact imo, one weakness of Saawariya with respect to its BO prospects was exactly the lack of hamminess. It would have been a helluva lot more accessible to the desi janta if he had gone OTT last his previous ventures.
Point I am making is, I think most of the so called film critics are not objective and don’t write in a professional manner( with personal insults galore)
Of course Baradwaj Rangan is not part of this ilk. He is truly the most erudite and literate film critic in India. He thinks about the movies he writes about deeply such that even his negative reviews educate you. He doesnt shoot from the hip with instinctive commentary . If I wanted that kind of review I would rather listen to my best friend or co – workers feedback.
@turrtle
Turrtle, I can see what you are saying but please be objective at the same time. Other then Movie Critic, I think we all are behaving over here and having a healthy discussion.
Lets take an example. Personally I did not liked “8 and a half” when I saw it (please do not crucify me) but I was impressed with so many things after seeing the movie, be it cinematography, dialogs, shot division, costume, sets, continuity, characters, character introduction, character development but on a personal level I was not able to connect to the movie. Will I call it a bad movie? I will not, I will sit down and think what is about the movie which I will not like. If I have to give the review just after I come out of the theater I may possibly end up calling “8 and a half” an average or bad or pathetic movie. So as a film critic you have to invest thought and time in writing a review but your thoughts and time are well spent only if you have an understanding of what goes into making a movie. That is why my chaiwala Kalluram cannot be a movie critic because he will see the movie passionately and not OBJECTIVELY.
“Don’t you think there is a difference between film journalism and writing a film review.”
No I do not think that way. Writing a film review is similar to writing an editorial where in a journalist try to analyze an event or an incident or a trend or a viewpoint or anything under the sun. I think a new movie is an event and a viewpoint. Film review to a large extent should be a detached process. Reviewer should have an ability to separate his/her instincts and feelings from the reviewer within him/her. Am I getting too spiritual? To put it simply, there should be parameters (within the mind of reviewer) on which a movie should be criticized. Or in a very bollywoodish term there should be a formula, formula where all the aspects of filmmaking are variables and the film review should be a function of these variables. I am not being very hard and fast about what should be the weight of each of these variables, it depends on movie-to-movie and critic-to-critic but all the variables should be taken into account. And finally SRK
@Vivek
Yup, I can see your logic, but dont agree with it.
When I am watching a film, I watch it NOT as a reviewer, but as a viewer, primarily as a cinema-fan. I take in the entire experience and then AFTER the movie is done, I sit and write. Why do I write ? Because there are friends of mine who like to read what I have written. Because it is my instinct to write. Does that make me a film critic ? Yes, it does. Am I necessarily objective ? Definitely not.
Tomorrow, if the rediff editor stumbles upon what I have written, likes it and offers me a job, (because Raja Sen quit and turned filmmaker ..
..) I will accept it and write for Rediff. And maybe, get paid for it. Will I suddenly start making notes, try to be objective and then review the movie ? Not. I am clear about what I want to do. I want to make MY opinion known. Rediff likes to publish it. People may like it or hate it. But my job is done.
I do truly believe that one man’s “wada-paw” is someone else’s poison. Cinema (as any other art form) is subjective. All one can do is form an opinion and voice it. Discuss it, debate it. To attach more responsibility to it, just because its a ‘paid’ job, is to stop enjoying art for yourself and if you do that, whats the point ?
“On the whole” :d … I do not agree with you that reviewing a film should be a detached process. If you have parameters, you are no longer a true reviewer but a trade analyst, giving the verdict whether the film will work or not, not necessarily saying whether its a good movie or not.
My two bits, rather late in the argument.
Agree with turrtle that reviewing any ‘art’ will always be subjective. There can’t be any objectivity because there are NO hard parameters to define the quality of any art form.
Outside of academic spheres, we can’t expect critics to be anything more than well informed (besides the obvious of being able to articulate and express themselves). They are not doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc. who can have tangible qualifications. All that a reviewer is offering is his particular sensibilities and tastes.
It’s the readers responsibility to find a reviewer whose opinions seem to closely mirror your own and then trust that opinion till the day where you find that your tastes have diverged again.
Is there corruption in the process? Maybe. There’s corruption everywhere we look, so why should this be any different? However, I think it’s unfair to paint an entire profession with the same brush.
In any case, I don’t believe that reviews really have that much power over the fortunes of a film. Maybe someone should study the correlation. Personally, from anecdotal evidence, I don’t think there’s much of one.
@turrtle
I would beg to differ on the following points.
1) A trade analyst is not really a reviewer because he might not have an intricate understanding of the movie making or the genre it belongs to but he does what we call the number crunching and gives a verdict as to what kind of money it might make. Its completely a different ball game.
2) A reviewer especially when you are a professional journalist writing for a known media and not your own private blog should take it as any other piece of journalist article. It should give various aspect to look for in the movie.
Now what aspects to look into is where a critic’s experience in moviedom and film making comes into picture. The qualification might be just experience or a study into the process and various genre.
So he knows that there might be viewers out there looking for exactly that kind of entertainment even if you do not like the movie.
Take for example: Saw 4 is a movie which i might not prefer and might stay away if taken a personal opinion is taken but if i do have to write about it professionally i might have understand the movie wrt other such in the genre and might rate it with them quite objectively without a bias so that audience of such movie do get a clear picture what to expect rather thrashing the movie and writing it off.
Similarly if you give my anna swami chaiwala of chennai to review a rajnikanth starer he would only go gaga over it and would not take any other aspect into consideration. This is where a professional journalist is better than a lay man.
I hope i could make my point clear.
@turrtle
…well I see you are adamant on your viewpoint and me on mine and that is not such a bad thing to happen. Is it? No problems Bhidu! I am all for a healthy disagreement till the time ppl do not bring there false ego into it.
…just one last thing…I was trying to use essence of the word “formula”. In bollywood the word “formula” has acquired new meaning all together. All I meant to say that all the possible aspects of movie making be considered before calling it a dud or a great, which I think is not happening. The only person who is possibly doing it is Rajeev Masand. I always do not agree with his reviews but that is a disagreement which keeps my brain cells working.
Hi Navdeep,loved your movie (if you are the same person).
I think simplystupid’s arguments stands for your too
And I understand your viewpoint for corruption here in this field. So if activism is on for other forms of corruption everywhere why not against media and doings of media?
Ans yes speaking about corruption..
I personally don’t think the bigger names in the industry are corrupt.I do not know what exactly goes on as someone earlier did mention a bit of buck passing do take place.
But I do feel there writing can reflect a lot more dimension about a movie than what it generally does.
And yes before Mr raja sen or moviecritic start firing guns that why don’t i start writing in such a short notice. but hey thats your career not mine and if i choose to do that some days i need to make sure i do it well and set high parameters that cannot be challenged by my chaiwallah atleast.
Thats a place where they can certainly improve upon.
Vivek; thanks.
I do think it would be an interesting exercise to try and find the correlation between reviews and box office success. Up for the job? Would make for an interesting read.
Sounds an interesting researched article to look forward to? Vivek… your next assignment in your familiar jargoan he he ?
Sounds an interesting researched article to look forward to? Vivek… your next assignment he he ?
Hi Navdeep,
We are not discussing correlation between reviews and box office because, but none the less I will do it. Who knows we may develop a new insight altogether!
If my article is not posted over here I will copy and paste as a comment in one of your articles:)
Vivek, I realise we’re not discussing box office correlations but that’s an important aspect of the relevance of film reviews.
Otherwise, we might as well be discussing the relevance of weekly horoscopes. :-?
Navdeep,
…yes boss point taken, my apologies.
Give me some time to collect data.
no smoking had a preview on thursday night
Hey, no need for an apology.
Looking forward to your ’study’.
Thanks Anurag, now it makes more sense.
My apologies if I may have hurt anybody, but lets not stop discussion. Lets keep it going.
I might have kicked the sack for the wrong reason but intentions were never wrong.
Vivek – it was very interesting to read your theory. And as any other theory, it is not entirely true or entirely false.
I have a completely different take on this. I never read reviews prior to watching any movie as there is no point. The reviews that are dished out by our salaried-reviewers (can’t say critics) should be read for fun when one is bludging at work or when there is a bowl at the receiving end of your rear. Do not take reviews seriously as they seem to be only an ‘opinion’. And no self-respecting individual would make a personal decision to do or not do something on the basis of someone else’s opinion.
Navdeep did raise a valid point and even prior to your research being published here, I can definitely say that there wouldn’t be a correlation between reviews and success/failure of a movie at the box-office. That only depends on personal choice and an individuals liking. Raja Sen could give one star to No Smoking and I would still see it more than once. He could give OSO 3-4 stars and I would still see it only once. He could give Good boy Bad boy 4 stars but I would never see it because I never intended to.
The one thing that can definitely help the industry is to not give importance to these critics. After all it is not a real job. Some are part-time amateurs and some are pseudo-intellectual try-hards.
The nail was hit on the head when Raja Sen called his reviews an opinion. As they say, opinions are like a$$holes… everybody has one… and some ARE one.
Cheers.
At comment 62
we do something similiar to rottentomatoes , its
http://www.allbollywood.com/
@ Anand G
Thanks for appreciating the effort!
May be no one would be able to establish a correlation between review and box office but I still would try to take the effort.
All I can say is I saw Jhonny Gaddar, Hazaaron… largely owing to the reviews. I watched Swades because I cannot miss anything of Ashutosh Gowarikar after Lagaan, but its my honest opinion that reviews killed a GREAT movie like Swades.
Some examples below:
By Nitika Desai
Film critic, ApunKaChoice.Com
”
What mars Swades is its continuous preachy tone that only trivializes that noble message that the movie aimed at giving. The three-hour-plus movie, punctuated with melodious songs by A.R. Rahman, is worth watching once only. You will guaranteed be bored the second time.
”
Sita Menon | December 17, 2004 12:25 IST (Rediff)
”
It is a Rs 300 million, three-and-half-hour long moral science lesson.”
Taran Adarsh, December 17, 2004 – 15:37 IST
”
On the whole, SWADES disappoints. At the box-office, the film may appeal to a handful of critics [await the 5-star ratings!] and those who believe in this form of cinema, but for a majority of viewers, SWADES will be remembered as a good opportunity gone waste. Businesswise, not much to look forward to in swades as well as videsh.
”
I think that the perception which reviews created that its good effort but a boring movie, where as people were expecting Lagaan kindda review nailed the movie.
IMO (since it is a blog I can say that) its one of the 10 best movies I have seen coming out of India. And it definitely better then “Budda Mar Gaya” to which Taran Adarsh gave 3 stars.
@Vinayak (77),
[Gana na aaya bajana na aya ......
Kahin sa hai khin re hai kahin ga ma pa dha ni hai
Kahin bhage shri ki behne kahin jai jayanti ki naani hai ......
Hame ek sur bhi milana naa aaya]
—
Re: Iqbal Masud,
ya it will be pleasure to read that article of yours. So requesting earnestly again
i think that for small movies reviews are important as if they cannot break the movie they can help promoting it.
i guess if movies like hey ram did not receive mixed reactions, they would have gone on to become slow grossers atleast if not instant hits.
@Vivek, simplystupid –
Let everybody write and publish an opinion, if they can .. its upto the reader to decide whether to read it or not.
Its like making a movie. If you have the resources, and you want to make a movie, make it. Its art .. man. It does NOT need qualifications. If somebody likes your work, you will get money for the next one, else, you will NOT.
Navdeep articulated it well.
I guess, we wont agree on this, will we ? :-?
@turrtle
…yes you are right, we do not agree here as well, atleast me. no body is asking a proof of the qualification, we are just trying to decide the possible qualifications and you seem to be uncomfortable with the idea itself.
…I wonder if you were ever a part of discussion that our politicians should have some qualification. We all have the notion over here that the qualification means the number of degrees which are hanging in our rooms.
…I am sure we don’t agree here as well!