Danny bhaiya ko Indian chasma kharid do
Danny Boyle Sahib seems to be very angry with all those who accused him of choosing India’s poverty in his now Oscar winning Slumdog Millionaire. Perhaps he thought he could teach them a lesson by indulging in dealing with Indian slums once again. And this time by showing something that’s not only dark but sheer perversion. Or else why would he choose Anil Bharve’s short film ‘Manjha’ to go before his own Slumdog Millionaire in the DVD. I believe DVDs of his films normally showcase a short film. Couldn’t he have picked up one from the list of other good Indian short films?
One of our promising directors, Anurag Kashyap sent him Anil’s film that shows how a constable in a Mumbai slum eventually succeeds in manipulating a three years old girl to treat his manhood like a lollypop. Anil undoubtedly is a very powerful film maker and Anurag must have had seen that. But for Danny bhaiya the film came as a boon. He thought “what an idea sir ji” to show the Indians again in poor light! Am I sounding bitchy? May be. But I am angry too. There are so many good films that are made here. Must his Slumdog DVD had to have another dog from the streets of India.
For that matter, Anurag himself loves subjects that are dark and makes films that look gritty while his characters look as real as Dilip in Gulal or Dawood in Black Friday. But his films do service to a society that he feels responsible for. Similarly, ‘Manjha’ is a good film. In fact a very good film. And its content is very real unlike Slumdog. Let Anil take his film to the world. Fine. He is an artist, a communicator and an Indian whose social awareness is above board. Anurag recommending Manjha or Anil making it is entirely different from Danny Boyle showcasing it with Slumdog Millionaire a film that has already hurt the sentiments of millions of Indians. An Oscar to an Indian musician or a Sound Engineer cannot compensate for that. If Danny bhaiya is so impressed by Anil’s work let him fund his next film ‘Tumbad’. No, for that, an Anurag Kashyap had to step in and do the job. Danny bhaiya will talk about it in his next interview to the Guardians and Times.
Like it is true that millions of us Indians live in an abject poverty it is equally true that Danny Boyles of the world single out that dark side of India and showcase before the western world. Just go to any photography site on the web and you will see that ninety per cent of India’s images portray slums and poverty. So why would Danny Boyle be any different. After all his revenues and awards too come from that side of the world. May be ha can buy a new set of glares from a store in India, then he will see India has many beautiful, positive things. Not a bad idea sir ji!
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
I really really disagree with this piece and very strongly. I have known Danny and he is a sincere generous man, who is being accused of things he never intended. The guy really loves india, and he shot what he saw was cinematically a very powerful location.
Manjha is a powerful piece and it could be true in any part of the world. All over the world films are made which talk about darker things which actually bring humanitarian attention to them, they impact you affect you. Manjha is one such film and so was “A very very silent film” by Manish which won the cannes award few years ago. Neither of them intended to sell india’s poverty and yes even though I am putting “Tumbaad” together, it wouldn’t have been possible without everyone’s attention being drawn to Manjha. Danny’s generosity is unmatchable in this bollywood that we liveand work in and his dignity shows in the fact that he is silently taking all the accusations. This is a very narrow point of view that you state here and very distressing . It makes me angry that someone wrote this, without really knowing the man.
Dear Anurag, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. We all like and respect your cinema. But I think as a cinema lover and being an Indian, it is ones prerogative to accept or reject a film or for that matter comment on the same. I, in my piece, at no point raised any finger on the content of Manjha. I have not only seen the film but preserved a copy in my library of films. But question is on a broader issue. A cinema lover like you too will agree that viewers reaction to a film is as valuable as the maker’s intention.
You may find the piece written by me narrow and my views distressing. I respect your comment. But somewhere down the line, I feel you have missed my point.
What’s the point you are making? That he used Manjha to defend his vision of India.. or he chose manjha over other films.. What choic es do you think he had.. he was sent four shorts, one was about a kid in remand home, one was “Girni”, which also in a way is about survival, deals with poverty, third was the love story between a prostitute and a 24 hr. medical shop attendant.. any out of the four would have prompted you to write the same.. so what i am trying to say is you already have a formed opinion on him and manjha just provides you arms to highlight it and underline your judgement of him..
His film “Slumdog Millionaire” was called that even before he came on board.. slumdog is a british slang, there way of saying it, there way of refering.. and in his or anyone’s parlance when they come to india to shoot , the first thing they would look for would be the slum.. where the character came from.. and then why pick only him, i shot my film in there twice, i love shooting the streets and the grimness.. i was asked questions after “Black Friday”, in india.. our journalists asked me this question ,”Do you think Indian communalism is saleable abroad”.. i am sorry but that is a very narrow point of view.. and extreme subjectivity..
You want to blame someone for “manjha”.. blame me.. i gave him only grim choices..
..slumdog’s director seems honest person to me’n you are just another high class indian hypcrt who cant digest facts ’cause srchng for the answers is way down to dirt ..wrttng blogs is better instd..hunh? “saale,firangi,duniya ko hamari garibi dikhate ho??hum to ac car me ghumte hain..aur blogs likhate hain.” hain na?yeh,aap jaiso n ki jalan waha se hain mere bhai.:-)
face it puppy..its skin colour which mttrs..
think of name farhan akhtar- or- anurag kashyap instd of boyale on the film..’n you guys wd be dancing..
2′nd – who’s this anil? as far as my knoldge goes, manjha’s director is some young teen age girl called rahee.
damn good work for her age.
@Anirudhya Mitra
You say Manjha is a good film. So then whats the big deal if it comes along with SM. It will bring the film a lot of recognition which might have not been possible otherwise.
also this debate of a westerner selling Indian poverty is pointless. well even if u term SM as selling of Indian poverty it did manage to do a lot for the kids in it.
rahee anil barve is the director of manjha.. he is a man..
this is not good.
Even if we all buy your point, Anirudya, as long as there will be poverty, exploitation that goes on uncovered in the pages of our dailies, there will be short films and they shall continue to be sold. So films like these are wake up calls to you me and our society’s conscience keepers to make sure that there is no poverty or shameful exploitation to sell anymore. After doing that we can all come to a place and bash up Danny Boyle if he chooses to still sell ‘ugly side’ of India. My own views on Slumdog hae changed after long and hard introspection. I dislike the screenplay and the structure of it, while the underlying spirit seems to be a tribute to Indians who succeed in spite of all factors we face to make us fail.
I guess we have to grow up and own up our ‘other’ side and stop talking about 3000 year old culture and see what we are in 2009.
This ‘pushing things under our carpet’ syndrome has made our society too dangerous for young kids, women and other sections too weak and uninformed to protect themselves. We will have to treat the films like these as our warning bells, the vision of world is now tightly on India – what is India going to do to itself and its people are huge questions facing us.
If not Danny, some one else is surely going to make a movie on things in India and they will not be just picture post cards on temples and Taj Mahal anymore. As a first step, our national news papers should put things like what is covered in this short film in the first page – as main headline instead of political horse trading and alliance building.
If we all keep our focus on issues like these, then such atrocities will come down and we can expect everyone to do a yashraj film that will sell mustard fields of punjab to westerners.
salman rushdi wrote this piece in REVIEW in March 28-29 issue…On taking liberties with literature…in this article on adaptation he writes about slumdog too…just read it.
i dont agree with salman rushdie views…its just for reference…
VPJ and Gorakhnath, very well said.
If I’d made a film like Manjha and if in some roundabout way, it saves even one child from sexual abuse, I’d happily take a million keyboard criticisms.
@Kenny…
such a beautiful point you have made. Hats off to you…Even if it makes one person stand up to the realities its worth the effort. Even if it made a person to think about such things after watching the movie, its mission accomplished.
I’m surprised at the lack of sophistication in Rushdie’s comments. Calling a story “not realistic” is not a legitimate criticism of the story, it’s just a description. This characterization is irrelevant to a judgment of a movie or any other story. Slumdog, and from what I read the novel from which it is adapted, is a “tale,” not a docudrama. It’s intentionally somewhat fantastical. And – from western viewer’s point of view, same goes for language thing – as far as we’re concerned, they’re all supposed to be speaking Hindi the whole time and we accept the convention of some actors (kids) speaking Hindi, some English. Never heard/read anyone comment on this.
Dear Anirudhya,
Your view is completely biased and hypocritical. So what if Danny Boyle made a movie on the slums. Do other film makers not choose subjects that are of interest and will sell? A film is a film, a story told in the form of audio visual media. What is wrong in telling a story the way the film maker wants to? Does Danny Boyle hold responsibility for upholding the image of a city or a community? Have we elected him into office or have we commissioned him with funds to make movies that improve out brand image. Why cannot we just appreciate good storytelling? Don’t you pay money to watch stories told by Indian film makers of Indians in New York or England where all foreigners are either shown as drugged sex crazed violent people or as racist? They may or may not be. Does Slumdog Millionaire not show the two Indias that in reality exist? While it shows the grime of the slums, does it now show the high-rise apartments and the booming cities of Mumbai and Agra ?
Do you mean to say poverty does not exist in India? Should films only showcase the shining side of India? Should we turn a blind eye to the other side? What stops our film makers from making films where the Indian city plays an important role? In recent times Dev D (Delhi), Delhi-6 (delhi), Gulaal (Rajasthan/Rajpur(fictional)) are the only ones where an Indian city/setting plays a role in the movie. Let us not bring down a film maker for choosing to tell a story whether we like it or not. Believe it or not, a lot more people know the name ‘Mumbai’ and that it is a city in India, thanks to Slumdog. Isn’t that branding enough? And if you are worried about perception, ask around- how many Indians after watching Sopranos think New Jersey is filled with gangsters? Most would right? But do you think the educated Indian is not aware that any city/country has multiple facts to life. Give westerners the same benefit of doubt please. I can go on and on but would only plead with you all to enjoy the beautiful form of storytelling called cinema. Do not try and find meaning beyond what is meant to be. Let the politicians do what they are good at doing and do not find causes where none exist.
I personally am not a slumdog fan AT all but to blame Danny Boyle (who is a brilliant film maker) for showcasing a short movie which deals with poverty is a pushing it. An very opinionated and baised write up and not something I expected out of POC (I am just a normal viewer and don’t know much about Cinema).
You may disagree with the point that only the movies that somehow poor India is the only thing that is noticed and I kindda agree to that but to say that there is an imperialist conspiracy against us lot, well I find it hard to digest.
What do I know, I am just a man on the street.
Regards,
“You may disagree with the point that only the movies that somehow poor India is the only thing that is noticed and I kindda agree to that”
Should be,
You may have a point that only the movies that show….Sorry for the mix up there.
I personaly felt that it is really time to think about the richness of subject (issue present in india) for all pandiths of bollywood, how a forigner man drewn the attention in a such way that wins the hearts of people all over the world and also win Oscar award by using indian resource throw his wit. Lesson for all think tanks of Barath. Its time to show off its tallent.
I vehemently disagree with the tone and accusations of this post. I have had enough of fearless protectors of India’s izzat protesting about art that takes place against the backdrop of the reality of India, the oppressions and violations that are a real part of Indian experience. Artists are compelled towards the vulnerable, and Anil Bharve is an artist. His film is a great debut, and deserves all the exposure it can get, and knee-jerk vitriol against Danny Boyle because of his ethnicity is not only boring, knee-jerk, mindless and pathetic, at some level, the failure to see him as an individual, but as some horrible monster out to rape the self-esteem of India in conspiracy with horrible people around the world, is a mindset of bigotry, pure and simple.
chavani — I think Rushdie is being petulant, bitter and jealous, because a movie that represented one aspect of the life of Mumbai was so successful, and he is being territorial because for so many years through his novels he was the self-appointed chronicler of Bombay in the consciousness of the West. Deepa Mehta is going to direct an adaptation of Midnight’s Children, and in keeping with the novel it will feature children from the slums of Bombay communicating with other children who have magic powers using their skills of telepathy. For him to complain about verisimiltude or believability is so hilarious, the irony is so big, that you can only imagine his petty minded bitterness made the red mist descend and blinded him to the meretricious worth of what is going to be filmed in his name by a second rate director. Maybe he can already sense the failure of the project and kicks out in petulance. I am quite dissapointed by him, but Rushdie has always had this pompous, petulant streak in him.
Jay, are we comparing Rushdie to Vikas Swaroop here? why would a writer of this stature be jealous? Do you think there is more left for his to prove in his craft?
I kind of agree to his comments and infact I find Slumdog a very average movie. It surely does not deserve this kind of attention. But the argument here is not that, the argument is attacking one of the finest movie maker of our time and according to AK a sincere human being. I think this harsh and unfair.
Jasjeet, Rushdie is attacking Slumdog Millionaire the movie, not Vikas Swarup the writer. He’s not proferring advice on how Swarup could improve his literary skills. It’s just an out-and-out attack on SM, born of bitterness and cluelessness. Rushdie has written a couple of decent novels, but he embarasses himself with this small time and petulant critique. His cinematic criticism is as pompous and blowhard as his novels.
Yes you are right, the argument in defence of Danny Boyle on the point remains, we are in complete agreement over that. I was just placing on the record my response to Rushdie’s rant, which you posted for the record on this thread. Cheers.
*/Danny Boyle Sahib seems to be very angry with all those who accused him of choosing India’s poverty in his now Oscar winning Slumdog Millionaire./*
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-Really? I don’t know how you have reached such a bizarre conclusion. Have you read his interviews at all?
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*/But for Danny bhaiya the film came as a boon. He thought “what an idea sir ji” to show the Indians again in poor light!”/*
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-This is the kind of vague assumption that only folks at India TV can make up.
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*/May be ha can buy a new set of glares from a store in India, then he will see India has many beautiful, positive things. Not a bad idea sir ji!/*
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-Maybe you can buy a new set of glares for yourself from any damn store in any country, then you will see that humanity has many beautiful, positive things. Not a bad idea Sir Ji!
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What you have written is what I call a personal attack on a guy whose genius is unquestionable. If you have a problem with the film, then tell me the scenes which you found offensive.
People who don’t have a direct experience of Danny Boyle as a person, apart from his work, I encourage you to search Youtube for Danny Boyle Interview and form your own impression – all along the way I’ve been so moved by his decency and generosity of spirit, but see what you think yourself.
Give it a rest. The writer of this piece is entitled to have an opinion. So what if Danny Boyle seems a decent person? I remember how people used to say Mel Gibson was a decent person too before he was revealed to be someone else.
I find it interesting how anyone who does not praise SDM is deemed ‘jealous’ especially if it is someone in the film industry or a writer. Maybe those folks actually found the movie to be average like a lot of other ordinary people (most know nothing about India and the poverty or slums is not the issue).
I’m willingly to bet a couple years from now, most people will be womdering how the hell this movie won such acclaim just like what happened with other movies like Titanic.
Salman Rushdie may be a fine novelist,but as a film critic of SM he simply falls flat..One can clearly see that he is jealous of SM’s success..I prefer that he keeps his big mouth shut and concentrate only on writing novels..
Folks, my blog is not about Slumdog Millionaire in particular but the obsession of Danny to show selectively dirty holes of our country. Or else he would not have selected the short film Manjha. I have nothing against exposing poverty or ones own reality since my upbringing has been through the films of Ritwik Ghatak, Satyajit Ray, Lankesh, Mrinal Sen, Shyam Benegal among others. But when a film maker from outside India repeatedly chooses to show our poverty before the world, my Indian sentiments are hurt. Certainly I love India more than Danny Boyle does. I loved ‘Manjha’ and had, on an earlier occasion, profusely thanked Anil for making such a powerful expose. In fact I never questioned Slumdog before this day. When I saw Danny picking once again the crude reality of our slums, I felt he was not being just. Now if that‚'„'´s how he wants to go, fine .. it’s his privileges. But I have mine too. Similarly you all to have the right to miss my points too. I don’t mind. Because I respect the feelings of all of you who bothered to read and then pass your judgements. Jai Ho!
Folks, my blog is not about Slumdog Millionaire in particular but the obsession of Danny to show selectively dirty holes of our country. Or else he would not have selected the short film Manjha. I have nothing against exposing poverty or ones own reality since my upbringing has been through the films of Ritwik Ghatak, Satyajit Ray, Lankesh, Mrinal Sen, Shyam Benegal among others. But when a film maker from outside India repeatedly chooses to show our poverty before the world, my Indian sentiments are hurt. Certainly I love India more than Danny Boyle does. I loved ‘Manjha’ and had, on an earlier occasion, profusely thanked Anil for making such a powerful expose. In fact I never questioned Slumdog before this day. When I saw Danny picking once again the crude reality of our slums, I felt he was not being just. Now if that’s how he wants to go, fine .. it’s his privileges. But I have mine too. Since we are not playing a ping pong on PFC I would refrain from further replies. After you are entitled to your views too. But in your love for Danny Boyle, I think you all are getting too emotionally crried away and overlook the core issue raised in my blog.
I am truly surprised people have taken offence over the content of this movie? is reality offensive? Slums, poverty and exploitation are part of every culture and every country. There are ghettos in new york city as well. I dont think the movie is about mumbai…its not about poverty. Slumdog Millionaire at the heart of it all is a love story, beautifully scripted, exceptionally directed but most of all the cinematography is out of this world.
As for someones objection to the word Dog being used…well..you really have to understand what dat means in western culture. Go watch Dog Day Afternoon, Lords of Dogtown..etc. it is not derrogatory in western culture…the word UnderDog is usually a positive. The movie was not made for the indian audience…its a global movie set in Mumbai. If you can enjoy all the F&B’s in other hollywood movies without any qualms…why treat this movie differently?
Is Danny obsessed with the underbelly of India….maybe he is…I’d be really happy if one of our politicians was as obsessed!
Haven’t watched Manjha so I wont comment about it, I’ll take ur word for it, so it deals with a manipulative police officer and a sxually abused child…Doesn’t that happen? Mebbe you would like it if danny boyle gave away a copy of Kuch Kuch Hota Hain along with the DVD of Slumdog. Continue living in ur fluffy candyfloss world mate…it takes courage to face reality.
My name is NOT Anil.
My name is NOT Anil..and i am cmpltly agree with V.P.J.
Rhil awesome meeting you today, finally!!!!!
with all respect mitra,after reading your post,i am happy that i am not some white director from abroad..warana mujhe bhi indian chasme ki dukan bheja jata..
well..still,i remember crushing my 100 % brown and indian head against similar accuses for two years when i was tryn to make manjha..
-trust me,tab indian chasma kisi kaam nahi aaya,sirf passion kam aaya,.
and thank god – its blind.
Anirudhya, some basic questions – what is the difference if Ritwik Ghatak or Satyajit Ray or Anil made films about poverty OR if Danny Bolye made it? Why and what has “Indianess” to do anything with a story which attempts to capture the spirit and hope of human beings, inspite of their supposedly bad living conditions. Whether the movie was set in Mumbai or London or Newyork, what difference does it make to the fact that there are similar poor children waiting to make something of their lives instead of ending up dying on the streets, all over the world! I really dont know when we Indians come out of our self reference and Narrow mindedness and appreciated that poverty and human stories embedded in poverty are global and that sentiment is what explains the euphoria that Slumdog has created. I hope you would have thought and discussed your opinions with people across the world before wasting your energies and the webspace of PFC…
ruk vasan,jara gussa thukne de..
and for matter of fact mitra,social awareness is not my cup of tea.
i remember some high profile woman in miff asked me..( would love to copy tat disgstng nautanki accentd caring voice..) aapaki is film ka samaaaj pe kya asar padega? ,..and i remember saying instantly..- ‘i give a shitt.so shutup.’
so- me and my film has nothing to do with social awareness.woh waise hi napunsak gusse ka natija hain,jiski wajah se aapne yeh blog likha.
Rahi.
As long as there is even one slum dwelling, poverty stricken kid in India, anybody in the world has the right to make a film on it, whether he/she be Indian or foreign born.
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And the same should go for any other country in the world…
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we should stop being so defensive about it…if you live in India, you just have to look outside the window of your car to find povery…why run away from it…?
I do not agree with the author’s view or the counter views given on the glorifying of India’s poverty bit. I think that ultimately it’s all about making money and money can’t be made showing primma donnas running through slums as the audience can’t connect with that. Slumdog works cos of the slumkids. Danny made an escapist flick and it somehow got oscars. I loved the movie, and I want such movies to get Oscars, not the arty stuff that I see every day. However to call it a master piece is wrong cos’ its not. The interesting part is that such an article can cause a furore in Anurag and Anil directors of such calibre. Keep it up folks, I love the dirty linen talk, and seeing you all go mad trying to convince each other of who is right and who is wrong.
Whatever it may be, I believe -Never take Show Biz seriously cos’ its not reality even though it tries to potray that. So there is no point fighting over it’s social ramifications across society. BTW Anurag- I loved Gulal, mast thi ekdum :-))
hey i wud luv to know anurag kashyap’s opinion on slumdog millionair……if u cn plz temme wat u think of the film.coz i kinda hated it and think its very very overrated and surely didnt deserve an oscar.
sudhanshu, Why is his opinion important when you hate the movie already?
Jay, he was in fact attacking the plot and hence attacking the movie. I however did not bring Rushdie up.
@ anirudhya
I truly agree with Anirudhya on the kind of double standards that Danny Boyle is projecting with his decision. I don’t think India is all about this alleged darkness that all of “us” seem to like so much these days. The writer has mentioned this in the write up very silently unlike Danny who seemed to have presented out poverty so boldly.
I wouldn’t like to think of Mr. Boyle as a great film-maker. So what if he’s the biggest name after Attenborough to come and direct a film here. And none the less his supposed “greatness” has nothing to do with his double standards.
I think everybody is “missing the point” here including Anurag Kashyap, Rahi Anil Barve and all their fans. The problem is we are taking the write up too personally just like some pseudo intellectuals from our city took it too personally and accused Danny Boyle trying to sell our poverty. So Mr. Anirudhya that leaves you in the same spot as the guy whose perspective you want to change.
But there is a difference here. The “Problematic” seen in Danny’s film was when people read between the lines but in this debate here I think many of “us” are actually failing to read the lines given, forget reading between them.
So all you guys who are looking at the “other” side of Danny Boyle, you’re actually doing the same thing to this writer which according to you is wrong. And yes, I totally agree with this chasma idea.
I have not seen Manjha so can not comment on the film’s inclusion. But if you watch Danny Boyle’s Trainspotting, and his obsession or fascination for depiction of lowlife, you will be able to put this in the right perspective. He has a right to pick a subject that he likes, just as Karan Johars and SRKs have an obsession for depicting high life, where most Indians living abroad seem to have private planes, drive Lamborghinis, wear DKNYs and are into S&M. You could complain why Karan Johar does not make realistic movies about ordinary Indians. Its good to have diversity among filmmakers in terms of the themes that they feel passionate about, leaving the choice entirely to the viewer.
I was attending one of the seminars by Ben stein economist n actor … he also hosts some Tv reality shows were in he was asking young graduates of America some basic questions like name five rivers n some more basic stuff… leave abt answerin they wer very miles from the answers… When they hardly know anything about their country then just think abt the opinion they form about country’s like India….
Right from Indiana jones, octopussy…Bourne II… n now gr8 SM…. yaar yahan pein bhooke nango ke alawa bhi kuch hain….salla chuck prince ko chuck kar ke Vikram pandit aagaya but still desi land will always be bhooke nange… opressed… depressed…
Frankly speaking I dont have any problem with SM or manjha or whatever but the insight they are buildin out the country… people in mumbai sit n make these things for so called international acclaim.. people who work n have to interact with gore have to face the heat…
ok India mein opprtunity nahin hain so we came here as so called western corporates hav come for indian consumer market ( some way to justify) but I hate to be overlooked by my peers or supervisors coz they have formed a opinion based on the movies ( This is the blunt truth they know only the India shown my gr8 DB) made by passionate western directors and supported by more passionate desi creators….
Cant deny the fact … poverty in Indian movies sells more than sex…..
Plsssssssssss some ghora come n make a brighter Indian movie ( not be sure if they can make any money or if they atleast will get any support from passionate directors of India)…..
n lastly my fav one from SM ” we will show you real AMERICA”……
Jai ho
Abhishek- tune mere dil ki baat bol di dost. When the lady who is a receptionist in my office asked me the day after SM got 8 oscars, so is India really like that, I told her with all my patience that no India is much more than slums and kids jumping into crap. No matter how much she nodded her head in agreement with me, I knew it by the way she looked at me that she had already made up her mind. That’s what I hate yaa. It’s easy to sit in India and say SM is a great movie, it’s tough when you have to face the westerners on their turf and they dont take you seriously at first cos our skin color is diffirent. There is prejudice make no mistake and it takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work from Indians and people from the Sub Continent to change that.
I know that im digressing from the topic but just wantd to share this. Danny may be a great person and his SM may be the best thing that happened to India in a long timme, specially for the extra SLUM TOURISM that it will generate, the fact is that we are still considered a lowly poverty ridden, disease infested and completly corrupted 3rd world country.
@Saurabh
So your receptionist embarassed u, big deal. Is ur embarassment bigger than the struggles of people who live in these slums? You chose a cosy life, took off to make the big dollars and now ppl in india are supposed to take care of the image of this country so u dont feel embarassed? dude…get off dat high ground will ya. I cant believe the hypocracy. what is ur contribution towards irradicating this poverty? If nothing, Danny Boyles movie took care of the education and upbringing of the children who were part of his movie.
“Is ur embarassment bigger than the struggles of people who live in these slums? You chose a cosy life, took off to make the big dollars and now ppl in india are supposed to take care of the image of this country so u dont feel embarassed?”
Well said!
@Cliff…
it is not abt gettin embrassed by a receptionist or a peer… It is abt hypocrisy …We dont need hypocrisy enough of the dark …opressed… depressed … now its time to show some brighter side… showing one side of the story to make some green is hypocrisy…. If you lend me a camera for my movie n coz of that If i praise you then its hypocrisy……
Just FYI…. we so called NRI’s contribute more than 30% of Indian GDP ….. which is much significant than wht some Danny’s or any passionate people have contributed…..we have rubbed our ass day n nite for this …. We have adopted many villages which are much worse than Mumabi Slums.. just FYI….Just some brighter things if you want to project…. I’m Sure Dannys r his frnds will not be interested in depictin them.. …
once again Jai ho !!!!!!!!!!!!
@Cliff and Kenny, what you think of as a cosy life for every Indian working outside India is not that cosy, it involves a lot of struggle and hardwork. My point is that People from the Indian sub-continent are categorized subconciously even before they have a chance of proving their worth. My point is that not everyone is from the slums and India is far bigger than slums.Danny made a commercial flick which went on to win Oscars. The storytelling was great and seen in that light it works, but just cos’ a movie was made, celebs are bending over backwards to acknowledge this so called Slum life in Mumbai? Where was the appreciation when Black Friday was released? A R Rahman has created far better melodies than Jai Ho, yet none before this got a nomination. So what do you call that? Admit it, West will only recognize India and see India when shown from the eyes of the Western Media. That’s what frightens me. I have nothing against Danny but I fear for my country and I am concerned about it’s image. The media here makes it out to be a nation with a weak goverment unable to fight the terrorists yet the reality is that 1 billion people live their lives daily and inspite of our shortcomings India works. Now make a movie on that, and I will be the first to applaud it.
Strange that this debate is veering off to NRIs vs Danny Boyle and co. The point of the debate is simple. Danny wanted to show case some short films along with his movie. He had a collection to choose from and he chose Manjha which had a disturbing theme, realistic and more deeper and thought provoking than his own ‘fairy tale’. So why view this decision with coloured spectacles?
We have stopped looking for accountability from police, courts, government servants and politicians and are busy debating the business and artistic moves of film makers – why so much of misplaced priorities? Is this the reason why there is no progress in India bottom up? If you point out 100 faults in me, i will say thank you and work towards improving them – I wouldnt start asking questions ‘why the hell do you care?’. I guess quicker we adopt this stand point and look to holding our politicians and government accountable instead of film makers and painters, we have a real route to future. Now that parliamentary elections are nearing lets see which political party owns up and shows commitment to correcting the issues raised by Manjha and its likes.
“Folks, my blog is not about Slumdog Millionaire in particular but the obsession of Danny to show selectively dirty holes of our country”
==========
You have already had explained to you that Danny Boyle selected from a number of shorts submitted to him by Anurag. When you leave behind your bullying, paranoid and bigoted caricature of Danny Boyle as a horrible imperialist out to singlehandedly destroy by conspiracy the izzat of Hindustan you can extend the logic to how Anurag Kashyap and Rahi Anil Barve are also ‘Uncle Toms’ for ‘washing our dirty linen in public’, right?
That’s the kind of reactionary, bullying mentality that has slandered artists and film makers from India since Satyajit Ray.
People have to face facts, that artists go where the energy is, and where the vulnerable are. The greatest art, including the greatest cinema, that shall emerge from India in the near and middle and distant future will be art that is energised by the narratives of the vulnerable, the weak, the outcasts, the abused, the marginalised, all of those girls and boys and men and women that the self-appointed protectors of the Indian izzat want to sweep under the carpet like they are cockroaches and insects. That is what every society since art began to be created has done…..addressed itself to the reality upon which they were faced in society. This is how Indian cinema will become a living, breathing, original and brilliant art……by its form and content and medium being rejuvenated by the narratives and multiple realities of Indian life. And it will do so with a smile and a sneer on its face in the presence of all those bullies who can’t do anything but whine and scream hysterically about their image when the world burns outside them and those with a mind and eye for beauty, truth and love create cinema that captures moments and stories of life that cannot be denied.
@Abhishek
Well put your money where your mouth is and finance a movie that shows India in this imaginary bright and colorful hues that you imagine. take it to hollywood, take it to festivals…do it for your motherland. Danny Boyle or any other film maker doesn’t need to carry that burden, he made a film he wanted to make, with sensibilities he wanted to instill, he ran around for the finances, and its his movie. If it had failed, it was his name attached to the film not Indias. Madhur Bhandarkar made an equally disturbing movie called Traffic Signal that bombed at the box office, I didnt see you marching to his office! Hypocracy? Apne daaman mein jhaak kar dekho yaar.
FYI I am an NRI too, live and work really hard in Dubai, and so what if NRIs contribute to a percentage of the GDP? Who gives a monkeys crimson backside about that? Do you pay taxes? You just send money back home to your family? what is ur direct contribution to the indian society?
@ Saurabh
Yes India is far bigger than slums, but danny did not make a film about INDIA! Its a film about Jamal, his childhood love Latika, a manipulative gameshow host and a brilliantly put together joyride, set in the Slums of Mumbai, the slums of mumbai is just the bachdrop, the canvas if you may, the emotions are universal. That is why it connects. And lets not make this a west vs india debate, you have a problem with the way they percieve you, maybe you should adapt to the country you chose to migrate to, India or film makers are not gonna carry the cross for ur sake.
@ Jaiganesh
“Is Danny obsessed with the underbelly of India….maybe he is…I’d be really happy if one of our politicians was as obsessed!”
Glad you brought that up. Guys go down to India and Vote…you bring the change you want. And if your not interested, then stop cribbing or make a movie to show India it whatever light you deem fit, India in Indigo…I’m sure the titles not registered yet..go for it!
Anirudhya Mitra I totally disagree with you. I think your assumption that Danny is only focussing on India’s poverty is baseless and unreasonable.
The point is, whether you admit it or not, when Ray or Benegal or Kashyap makes a film highlighting certain dark aspects of India and it wins accolades abroad, you guys will be the first to start cheering..the moment a British man makes a film about that, his intentions are questioned, judged and all of a sudden people start questioning the Oscars, and the everything to do with the West.
As for Salman Rushdie.. who appointed him as the authority figure of cinema to speak on what is and what is not realistic?
@ Saurabh
“A R Rahman has created far better melodies than Jai Ho, yet none before this got a nomination. So what do you call that? ”
A R Rehman has never created melodies for an “English Language Film”, so he cannot be nominated in the Open Categories at the oscars. kapiche? Just like Alicia Keys is never gonna win a Filmfare for “Best Playback Singer Female”….unless ofcourse someone ropes her in. My 3 year old niece understands that!!
@ Saurabh
Black friday. read previous post. put 2 and 2 together. ur still wondering why ur western peers and colleagues look down on you? I’d imagine it has nothing to do with the slums of Mumbai.
And the slums of mumbai are something to celebrate, there is more life in a single gulli of a slum than there is in a dozen blocks of beautifully lined up mansions at beverly hills! That is what the westerners love about India…its heart! I just feel sorry you guys left all that behind, all you care about right now is your image. Still embarassed? Greencard application-Check.
“The point is, whether you admit it or not, when Ray or Benegal or Kashyap makes a film highlighting certain dark aspects of India and it wins accolades abroad, you guys will be the first to start cheering..”
========
Faraaz, it’s worse than that. I honestly believe that the same argument will be made, except they wil be caricatured as ‘Unle Toms’……remember when Nargis accused Satyajit Ray of ’selling poverty’ to foreigners? Others also said the same thing. It’s a complete knee jerk, unthinking and bullying response. That film makers and writers have to contend with this mindset will either defeat them, or make them more fleet footed and determined to achieve their art. Either way, it’s an inhibiting mentality that just adds to the atmospherics of denial that Indian cinema faces…..the optimistic side of you says that it will create a more determined kind of art and artist……because people kick against it.
I’m from Hyderabad and I was pissed off with the movies our guys make in my state. Thats when I heard of PFC, a place where everyone who has some frustration about the filmy duniya and all those who want to project the right and refreshing ideas, as told by one of my friends. I found this site refreshing when I joined. As the time progressed, I started getting a feeling that this site is becoming person centric rather than being idea-centric.
Guys..I thought we were here to screw the people with hypocrisy, not promote hypocrisy..
And all of u guys who thought SM was the true picture of Mumbai..jerk off..Showing just the dirty and derived part of India..Isn’t this hypocrisy? And above all, we at PFC are promoting this kinda shitty hypocrisy, which is really bad.
My point is that when a film maker depicts the darker side of something, it does not mean he’s not being hypocrite. So, jaago India…aur goron ki chat naa band karo…
Cliff. Well said!
Abhishek- I am an NRI too but don’t find the need to rub my ass every way to make a buck ;) jokes apart, why is a firang criticized when he makes a film on Indian poverty and Pather Panchali is hailed a classic? Aren’t the themes similar – abject poverty?
And Mitra – the DVD version of the movie doesn’t include Manjha but the Blu-ray version does. Looks like it doesn’t matter either way since you seemed to have made up your mind that you wouldn’t be including this in your collection
Just out of curiosity, what film or documentary would have earned your respect had it been included in the extras?
@Bharath
“Showing just the dirty and derived part of India..Isn’t this hypocrisy?”
What about showing only the rich and sanitized part of India…that’s not hypocrisy?
abhishek and the others..tell me a great story of high life where there is nothing dark lurking around the corner…show me a single piece of great literature from india that doesn’t talk of some kind of depravity or the other and i will buy your argument.. if india has all that you say, why did you leave this country.. come back and show it to them.. don’t run away..
Cliff. Rahaman has created far greater compositions and music than Jai Ho… but they will not be nominated, because they are not heard, because we do not push them or sell them abroad.. there are far more greater films than SDM but they are not seen.. in the end any kind of recognition is based on how many know about it and has seen it.. our films that we call good are not released abroad.. when they are it is the NRI’s who prefer to see it on dvd and save the weekend for the big star blockbuster.. so if things are not happening the way you want india to be projected, people to blame are the very people who are criticising SDM.. that is why i say.. don’t just talk.. walk it..
There is nothing called hypocrisy atleast in films. See different ppl have diff perceptions, its on a collective pereception that Slum dog is masterpeice.
So all ppl who abuse this films in the name of nationality..keep ur gob shut..
This dirty slum movie has given profit of 10000 times its budget guyzzzzz
“Napunsak Gussa”
as Rahil pointed out. That’s the problem with everyone….anger against everyone but ourselves….questioning everyone else but oneself…belittling all but the big “I”
Danny Boyel’s first film was in anger….Shallow Grave was against Thatcher….her government and the corruption in the UK….
Trainspotting was when a weak Prime Minister was at the helm of UK. A man who can love cricket but run a country??…donno….youth gone doped…country To the dogs and yeh….when There is heroin…who needs choices…
So its not like he has spared his country…shot Mills and Boons in his homeland and came here and shot the dark truths of a country which he did not belong to. Sorry boss…argument jama nahi.
People, SDM is not about India. Understand it. Its a story set in one of the slums of Mumbai. The sooner you get this point, the better.
@Anirudhya
Every film is a wake-up call to our Social Conscience,till u REALISE this fact, i wish you happy blind viewing !!!
GK
@ everyone against this idea of the writer
As I said earlier, the point here is not the way Danny depicted india in Slumdog but rather the fact that it is the only picture of india that Danny is showing of India. I REQUEST EVERYONE TO GO THROUGH MY LAST COMMENT ON THIS VERY SAME PAGE.
@jasjeet
jst wanted to know yaar :P!!
he is one of of the few intelligent filmmakers in the indrustry so jst wanted to know.
and y is this discussion going sooo long ppl everyone knows(including all,the ppl who luved smd and even the ones who hated it) that at no level at all the muvi was realistic it was a piece of fiction(to unrealistic fr that as well :P) with so many plot holes that u cnt actually concentrate on the actual plot.it was a gud example of wat hype cn do to stuff,it wasnt the extraodinary muvi it is projected to be in any aspect of film making.even the hyped actors gave bullshit performances.and it was anything but real so there is no question of showing true india.
@ everyone against this idea of the writer
As I said earlier, the point here is not the way Danny depicted india in Slumdog but rather the fact that it is the only picture of india that Danny is showing, repeatedly. I REQUEST EVERYONE TO GO THROUGH MY LAST COMMENT ON THIS VERY SAME PAGE.
Also i would like to have known all your comments if your Guru anurag kashyap had not commented the way he did. i can see most of your points and come to know what is your understanding of things. this is the first time i’m paying importance to ppls comments on this site precisely because they have been so stupid.
@ anurag sir
no sir i dont agree that for art to be gr8 it has to have a dark side to it. some people get an intellectual kick by reffering to the dark side of things. i may be wrong but i do feel that dark art is an easy way of playing with peoples emotions. logo ko thapad markar samjhana bahut aasan hai par sahi tarike se samjana sabki bas ke baat nahi. that is where a great artist prevails. that is where a film like cinema paradiso, motorcycle diaries and schindler’s list will prevail over any gory, dirty, crazy film that you will see.
sir don’t take it as a personal thing. i’m not talking about you or ur films but this obsession that “we” have developed. i may be wrong…
c’mon guys danny is not a great director. ek to acchi film banai hai. woh bhi puri welsh ki novel se li thi. Still whatever, thats my personal opinion.
And lets not say that this film is a wake up call. wake up for what? kabhi bhikari nahi dekha hai kya? and even then kya farak pada hai hamare par. sab pseudo intellectuals bharein hai is site par.
@ Cliff – ‘that is what westerners like best about India-it’s heart’….that is a patently absurd statement buddy. How do you get to cast sweeping judgements on so-called ‘westerners’ like they’re some homogenous monolith? Let me illuminate some facts for you, my friend…most mainstream westerners, especially those from the American heartland, bible belt,mid-west etc..as well as dyed in the wool provincial Europeans perceive India and most of the ‘exotic east’ as a land of Gunga Dins, snake charmers and cockroaches…Salman Rushdie has written a very insightful article above..Upon the impending take over of Arcelor by Mittal, Villepin (French foreign minister) not being able to accept the reality of what was happening(an Indian having the balls to buy out one of Europe’s largest corporations), expressed his disbelief and displeasure by referring to the mighty Mittal conglomerate as ‘a bunch of monkey metal companies who were probably trying to bite off more than they could chew’..
It is not about ’sweeping the harsh reality under the carpet’…it is more about this age old phenomenon of the East being forced to define itself through the eyes of Western academia and now Media. Edward Said, the late Palestinian writer explored this phenomenon in his classic ‘Orientalism’….I would recommend you go out and purchase it from your neighborhood bookstore…
Yes, undoubtedly Boyle is a very talented director, unfortunately SDM is not even close to his best work…and sadly it has won the most accolades. This is solely because the West loves to breathe a collective sigh of relief (maybe subconsciously)at watching films like SDM, because it makes them feel better about themselves, and caters to ‘white guilt’..Similar American films that tackle the underbelly are almost exclusively about the Black or Hispanic community and (wonder of wonders!) the miserable ghettos they thrive in…much like Indian rats and cockroaches.
So the issue is really not about ’selling Indian poverty to the west’…it’s more about the ‘East’ only being palatable to the ‘West’ when told through an Occidental/Anglo-Saxon perspective..this is so ingrained in post colonial ethnic minorities that most of them are not aware of it themselves..Please do pick up ‘Orientalism’ when you get a chance.
NO – Boyle did not have exploitation in mind when he set out to make SDM..but YES, he is definitely the victim of an age old conditioning process..
It is sad that so many Indians are not offended by the fact that even after 60 years of Independence we still have so much poverty and hunger in our society but by the fact that it is being depicted by a Westerner. If you have a look at the kind of movies that Danny makes, you will realize that it is far from the crap that comes out of the YashRaj & KJo factories. Trainspotting for example was not a movie I could sit through. I couldn’t stomach it. He was showing his own country. So to blame him that he wants to show India in bad light is something I am not willing to accept.
Just a couple of questions: Are the poor not entitled to have their stories told whether good, bad or indifferent? Cinema is such an expensive medium that the poor are not likely ever to be able to tell their stories or their fantasies for themselves.
Does India belong only to the middle-class do not the poor have a right to an “aesthtetic space” ?
Rushdie raises a pertinent point not about good films bad films not about good intentions and bad intentions of a writer and a film-maker but the process by which these ‘texts’ get created received in the west, about our still rather skewed and unequal relationship with the west… these issues need some pondering because they continue to shape our thinking our attitudes and thus our films.
Well i do not agree with this post.
First of all i think every director has choice to make films of his choice.About slums, if you stay in mumbai,if you travel by local train you can see people answering nature’s call along the railway line.More than half of our population lives on less than a dollar a day.It is not like danny created sets.I do not know if he likes a short film , in the dvd it is well and good.
Danny has shoot film in mumbai does that mean he should produce films.
I shudder to think what people in china must be thinking of us after seeing cc2c.
@babel – in a hail of jingoistic chest thumping your comments have provided some objectivity to this discussion, but seriously folks, we have veered off from the main topid and made it a West Vs India and the collective perceptions. In a way we all are responsible for the image of our country cos’ we do somehow unconciously want to be feted in the eyes of the West.
Anurag, Abhishek, Cliff even though we have different viewpoints on this post, but I am sure that you all will ageee upon the fact that the potrayal of India over the years has been skewed to showcase abject poverty. It may change now or it may never change, but the day and Indian ensemble cast with an Indian director at helm and an Indian production house wins accolades and awards just like SDM did, that day perhaps I will buy into the concept of showcasing poverty in a movie to win awards.
Everyone roots for the underdog cos’ essentially all of us our underdogs or like to think that we are. Even Danny for me is an underdog in Hollywood (though not anymore)
@ babel
there is no point suggesting these guys to have a look over what “Said” has written. Orientalism is far from their understanding. they can’t even interpret anirudhya mitra. “Orientalism” is just a distant dream…
@cinemausher
if c2cc had been subjected to the hype and success then the story would have been different.
@saurabh
I am not sure that is true. During the last few years world media has run lots of programs about the development of new India in certain pockets of the country. They have showed the malls and the newly affluent Indians. They have been just to that side of India. I think the fault is mainly at our end where we donot wish to acknowledge the existence of such of thing in India. How many of the ducated people ever cared to ask their maids or driver their living condition? When you see a beggar boy or car screen washer at traffic signal, have you ever wondered where he sleeps and what his life story would be. The answer is NO. Because we all have so many problems in life that we dont want to be disturbed by these horror stories.
@Kenny
True. If that’s hypocrisy showing only the dirty part is also hypocrisy.Isn’t it Mr.Kenny?
Another thing. If SM was such a true picture of India, the why was it just a semi-hit in India?
The only reason it was such a big hit elsewhere was because of the fact(other than the wonderful screenplay,I must admit) that these goras want to see us in the deprived state,forever.
well said babel..
@ AK
I believe we are moving out from the crux of the issue…try to look at the bigger picture….SDM wouldn’t have been made if there were no audience for it… the audience were there to appreciate the greatness of their own land… I’m not sure abt Danny but pretty sure Production team were confident enough that ” Poverty … opressed depiction of a foreign land” sells… n u urself will be aware of numerous examples……show me a “piece of great literature from india that doesn’t talk of some kind of POSITIVITY or the other and i will buy your argument”…..
There was no point tht boastin greatness of India. It is the land of more than 1.2billion folks it has various stories apart from dark ,depressive….celebration of death ….
There is life ….. go out on Vinayak nimarjan …go out in public…. find the celebration….. its life … its positivity we have n we bring….not denyn the other facts which are overly depicted compared to various other things…..” Kahannnnn gayi hain saali khushi”
To be available were the real work is gettin originated is running away than I prefer that than sittin in mumbai n praisin a ghora….Globe is shrinkin Mr K we will be there were things are happening … If that is runnin away I appreciate u Mr K ….
The basic economics says that “Sell only those products which have saleability n only those are quality products” .There is no point of art or helping downtroden… If any single individual wants to endorse that cause of personal reasons thats fine but a heard followin is not acceptable.
n once again its not abot endorsin ” Mera barat mahan ” … this hue n cry is all abt partial view given rather than panoramic view of India by not only SDM but also various others….Issue has been raised now may be coz SDM was the last push required……
@ AK
What do you like about India?
Poverty or Progress?
And after you answer this question cos’ this is the question we all should ask ourselves, will your conscious accept or reject Slum Dog Millionare.
I for one like progress, yes my country has issues, there is terrorism, corruption and yet in the middle of it all there is hope. In SDM the kids were on their own, there was not a single charecter shown in the movie which could have taken them under its wing and groomed the kids. What we do have is a caricature of a ganglord who does not approach the kids, instead the older Kid approaches him after killing Mamman. If this is not escapist cinema what is it? Also, as i said above, if you want me to believe that everykid in the slum is like this then you are sadly mistaken. Slum kids may be street smart but they are not rotton. No one wants to be gangster even if they are forced to be that. Jamal went on the Millionare (KBC) show to find the girl but what if he lost on the last question? Will the movie be a big hit? I do not think so. That’s what I have been talking about, the spirit of mumbai is not captured in the movie. Mumbai and India as a whole is all about surviving against the odds but there is no rags to riches story in an instant for anyone. Life is harder than that. And I can’t accept the verdict wherein SDM is considered important cinema as it is not it is just an commericial movie.
In the end it’s us who choose what we want to follow, irrespective of what kind of circumstances we are in.
If you have to shoot poverty why not capture the story of the travails of Budhiya from Orissa who wants to be a marathon runner for India as that is the story of hope against all odds, just like there was a story about Pinki and the documentary which got the award- Smile Pinki.
@Agnostic Indian – We are not disturbed by the horror stories.
Indian media churns out enough in a day – “Sansanikhez Khabaren” to keep the people well informed.
That’s not the pain, the pain is that a through and through commericial film made by a Western Crew even though it had an ensemble cast from India has been thought to be a masterpiece, which it is not. Today India is the flavor of the month hence we get the applause and I fear that it will die down as people find something more interesting and with more issues.
I will only believe that Hollywood is truly warming up to India when a movie like Black Friday made by an indian director and an indian cast ( AK again, it is one of my favs ) should get the Oscar.
you want progress .. you have to hold a mirror to our failures.. you don’t achieve progress by beating your drums.. politicians do that all the time.. to achieve progress you have to stop sweeping things under the carpets.. hindi cinema has always been about positivity and happiness and love and all that’s right with the world.. what has it changed? don’t just get defensive.. think about it.. if a change has to be sought hyou first have to have the balls to bare your ugly side and say that’s me and then take a step forward to change it and that will become the story of positivity, thats why i always say to all the naysayers.. don’t just talk.. go out, get out of your comfort zones and do it..don’t sit here and talk of what it is all about.. i buy arguments from people who lead by example and not just conversation.. i know a lot of people on this forum and what they have stood for so long.. i will buy from them who i know mean it.. i don’t buy from those, who just argue for sake of arguing because they want to win it.. i say prove t by action.. i can throw a million times the number of people who just love to talk..
saurabh..we all like progress and yes like “smile pinki” SDM is also a film about hope.. its similar in the way that it is also a story about hope in misery and poverty.. have you seen it.. obviously no.. budhya story is also being written and being made.. but not by you.. i know the people who are doing it and no.. mr. mitra and you or anyone is not supporting it.. we are.. so guys stop talking out of your ass.. go do it.. then talk.. what is the difference between smile pinki and SDm.. spirit is the same.. SDM is a film about hope. Mitra has been in the industry for long time, he has never supported an unsafe project.. i say walk the talk and stop bullshitting yourself..
omg.. some of the comments are really funny here.. common friends.. This is PASSION FOR CINEMA.. its juss an article.. why are we all debating to such an extent? is it required? everyone has a point of view..
anurag kashyap, pls divert ur energy in writing ur next film.. PPL HERE just follow u.. most of the ppl dont make sense here.
SDM is subjective.
for me there is hope in the film, but its an over-rated pathetic film.
God bless
@AK- It’s amazing what a spark that spreads like a fire can do to the best of us.
I do not want to enter into a personal slang match with the guy who has provided me with some stependous and path breaking cinema.
If you still have not understood what I meant through my comments, chances are you never will and I am not going to loose sleep on what you think or harp about anything anymore.
Till next time.
Good Luck
Dear Mr.Kashyap..I dont know if making movies is really ‘walking the talk’…Directing movies is by no means the equivalent of finding the cure for Cancer or AIDS, or solving issues of world hunger,poverty etc. At the most these films that you perpetuate through this forum remind unfortunate people as to how badly off they are in the first place..which is why most of them would rather go see Golmaal Returns than Gulaal, however well intentioned..The kind of films promoted by pfc and company essentially cater to the demographic who have never had to deal with crippling poverty,illiteracy,oppression,communalism etc being portrayed onscreen.
The people really affected by serious issues would rather enjoy three hours of glorious escapism than have their noses rubbed in the dirt of their harsh reality (which they experience day in and day out).
Please let us not try to make us out to be more than we really are….I know several dedicated social workers who toil in horrid conditions the world over to actually make the world a better place..and worst of all, who never get an iota of recognition. You know why? Because all that media space is hogged by egotistical film personalities, who are so full of themselves and their petty obsessions that they think the world revolves around them and their struggle with ‘the system’. Buddy you have it good…real good. I hope you know that. So appreciate the life you have and please stop pretending to be a martyr.
Mr. Kashyap, i certainly don’t agree that you have to prove yourself first in order to voice ur opinion on a blog. for then none of us except marx, freud and some others would have the priviledges to do so. certainly not film makers, writers or others artists. but that view is wrong
Please don’t talk about ‘walking the talk’, you don’t know us. Some of us here actually stand for what we say, unlike many.
@ Anurag,
Probably this is a neat idea to show a short film like Manjha before the opening of any of your next film (or even a Karan johar movie) so that our guys will get the message showcased by a ‘Passport and voting card holding Indian’ and there we will observe how many of them will whistle and hoot at the theatre operators to put the ‘phillum on’.
I dont know when we will be ready to face the ‘kadwa sach’. Till then we will live on sweet saccharine tranquilisers and yell at people trying to wake us up.
walking the talk is not just making films.. go do it.. most of your URL shows you are abroad, and not in the country of which you want to show the picture which it is not..
sir ek bar to kisi baat ka jawab de do…galat hoon toh boldo galat hoon
Lets not compare Ray n Boyle pls…excerpting a relevant blog post (Source:http://greatbong.net/2009/01/17/of-ray-and-boyle/)
“The overwhelming majority of Ray’s movies aren’t even about “poor” people, where poverty is defined as the grinding sort that gets Westerns to go “Oho…so unfortunate”. Charulata and Ghare Baire are set in rich zamindar families. Kanchenjangha and Aranyer Din Ratri look at social dynamics in an urban, upper-middle class context. Nayak is about a matinee idol. The Kolkata trilogy deals with youth unrest, social changes in urban life and corporate wheeling-dealing. Ray deals with civilizational crisis in Agantuk, corruption in Ganashatru, history in Satranj ki Khiladi, the tragedy of blind faith in Devi, feudalism and the inability to move with the times in Jalsaghar, the tensions caused in a middle class household when a housewife takes up a job in Mahanagar. There are detective stories, children’s fables with political subtexts, comedies about Bengali middle class aspirations—in short a mind-boggling variety of themes are explored by Ray where poverty is totally absent or where it is just a sidelight (for instance the female character in Mahanagar has to take a job when her husband gets laid off when the bank he works for fails) to the dramatic conflict that is at the crux of the narrative.
Even when Ray depicts poverty as he does in Pather Panchali, it almost never becomes the exclusive focus. In a Ray film, there will hardly ever be gratuitous displays of human suffering of the “rolling in excreta and skin peeling off” kind that Boyle and even some Indian art movie directors, who shall remain nameless, use as a means to shock.
Not many people know this but one of the persistent criticisms that Ray faced throughout his life from Left-leaning Bangali intellectuals was that his depiction of suffering was not hard-hitting enough (Ray’s most stark depiction of poverty “Asani Sanket” was dragged over the coals as a “dushtu-mishti” [sweet-naughty] depiction of the Bengal famine because according to the critics it was way too arty and subtle and poetic.)
Some said that it was his bourgeois sensibilities which led him to be defensive about showing poverty. Some said it was because of his upper-class privileged upbringing that he had little idea of true human misery.(These incidentally were the same criticisms against Rabindranath Tagore). My take is that rather than being bookishly “gritty”, as in showing people vomiting on a glass screen and taking a shot from below ( a scene which I have actually seen in an Indian “art” movie popular on the festival circuit), Ray relied on indirection, symbolism, shot composition and use of light and shade to convey his message in a more cinematically aesthetic way. Likewise, Boyle could have used a number of ways to show extreme love for Bollywood celebrities but he chose the “easy way out”—the “shock and awe” strategy. Using perhaps the most gratuitously odious and heavy-handed way of getting the message across [a sentiment echoed here], he no doubt grabbed attention and pleased the crowd but the mechanism through which he achieved this can hardly be considered to be a great example of the director’s craft as it is defined by the “Oscar and Cannes” aesthetic. That in a nutshell is the difference between Ray’s depiction of poverty and Boyle’s—it’s not the depiction of extreme poverty that makes Slumdog ordinary but the way Boyles chooses to do so that is.
Much of the assessment of Ray and people’s judgment of him is based on the Apu trilogy, or perhaps just “Pather Panchali” as for many that is possibly all the Ray they have seen. Isn’t the Apu trilogy about poverty you ask, maybe visually artistic but about poverty none the less? Seeing nothing but poverty in “Pather Panchali” is like seeing nothing but graffiti on the walls of the Sistine Chapel. I have reviewed briefly the Apu trilogy in a series of three posts (Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3) and I would request the interested reader to look through them if you are interested to know more.
Here let me just say that the appeal of the Trilogy lies primarily in the universality of the themes it explores, themes that transcend barriers of time and social context. Apu can be taken out of the context of a poor village in rural Bengal and transplanted to graduate school in the US in 2009, a young Indian male adjusting to a new world with wide-eyed wonder in the process turning his back to his roots. Sarbajoya then can become his mother, dying inside, waiting for her son to call, running to the phone to realize she has imagined it to be ringing and sitting at the verandah of her third storey floor looking wistfully down at the road, expecting her son to come walking down the front street like he used to many years ago. And even then, if the camera was in the hands of a skilled director (no Mr. Bhansali I do not mean you) the story and the visuals would lose none of their poignancy even though the poverty and rural angle has been totally taken away.
In conclusion, it is this timelessness and universal relevance that makes Ray’s movies such exquisite works of art, rather than his “realism” or his “depiction of poverty”.
Now if only some people would get this.”
why is is this sudden explosion of people around who are hell bent on making other accept that their view is the ultimate truth on all related matter, when they are not even open to other peoples view. They are not even ready to consider that Danny as a film-maker is lead by his passion to tell stories which move people and not by the various accusations of “showing India in bad light” made against him!!!
I guess it has to do with the mentality of lot of us, with the security that the anonymity of the internet provides, we take the opportunity to let out our imperialist and hypocritical streaks out on fellow people. Used to see this a lot in Rediff, and I guess slowly its coming here in PFC also! These kind of people never allow for any sane discussion and exchange of ideas and just piss off everyone around. I dont think any sane person should waste her energies over these people anymore anywhere.
Kashyap, pls dont try to make yourself out to be the great martyr of Indian cinema..you are only making movies…not solving world hunger or poverty…be grateful for the opportunities you have. btw my url is in India..where I provide emergency medical assistance to people in backward areas, who would rather see SRK anyday rather than one of your self indulgent prestige pieces..and that is the reality my friend..even the ’slumdogs’ of Boyle’s film would rather see escapist spectacle entertainment than a so-called ‘indie’ that reminds them of their wretched condition..I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to see the truth in this.
AK, Your type of films are solely watched by that niche segment of the population who have never had to grapple with the problems being portrayed onscreen…and that is the single greatest irony of it all. I would love to hear an intelligent response on this.
Aila.. I just did it :- )
Anurag, Naveen, what we do for India though may not be as glamorous as making movies but it is relevant still.
@Naveen in one sweeping statement you have labelled half the junta that comes to visit this website as hypocrites? What are you driving at? This was not a sane discussion? Who veered it to this juncture? Read the first comment.
So now, if AK is entitled to his comments so am I and so are a lot of others.
Read the comments all of them once again and then make such statements. I thought PFC was all about voicing your opinion, I even thought about sharing my stories and narratives about Indian cinema, but now it seems that it can only show one side of the argument and if that argument is made by a PFC luminary and he start’s losing ground well then term everyone else as a hypocrite and take the easy way out.
Three Cheers for You Naveen for stooping so low.
First we had Anurag preaching – walk the talk and now it’s you labelling everyone a hypocrite.
Getting personal and abusing people is not my cup of tea so you carry on brother.
this is shocking and outrageous.
i was part of m.i.f.f. in 2008 where this disgusting and pathetic film MANJUA won.most of you havn’t seen this film..
this film is one big conspiracy,made by few rich boys with toys,to sell so-called indian povery to the world and gain profit out of it.any film maker can see the huge funds these maniacs must have received to make this film.i myself a director,can tell you,the visual look,quality,use of expensive computer graphics,the way they have shot,film’s real looking sets and lighting,their use of jimmy jib camera cranes,no ordinary short film maker can afford all this.
huge funds we are talking here.
one of the respected m.i.f.f. member pushpa j.vijula – also known psychologist – has confirm that this film is “complete un-truth and a dangerous figment of the makers imagination.” please go through this-
http://osdir.com/ml/culture.film.documentary.docuwallahs2/2008-04/msg00002.html
now just imagine the kind of money they must have received from selling the film’s rights to SM?and now suddenly shooting their next “big budget” feature film, – what a coincidence.
Saurabh… you even’d it out dil ki baat kah di…
I quit it here……. lookin forward for nagiya’s next 8×10…..
I have this theory of mine, which I guess will try to explain this emergence of the “Defender of Indianess – behind the security of the internet”.
I am an NRI, and I have come across many NRIs, who basically flock together with other Indians, mostly form their states or regions. They sorely miss their food, language and country and to substitute this, they create “ghettos”, which is closed for people of other cultural inclinations. And they keep going in circles of what a great country India is, blah, blah and form this very narrowed down version of the Indian culture and exalted greatness. Most of the chain mails which talk about the number of great Indians in the worlds most famous organizations, about the cultural values, etc. are originated in some of these groups. And when a person, supposedly outside the culture comes and tries to weave a story about their home back in India, all hell breaks lose. Instead of appreciating or objectively looking what that person has done and taking this as an opportunity to question our own understanding, they start accusing her of Imperialism, hypocrisy and showing India in poor light! Pure Jingoism… we find such creatures everywhere in the internet world, Times of India, Rediff and now PFC!
Off late the discussions on this forum aren’t good. Everybody is hell bent in proving their point and nobody wants to listen. If some gora had made movie on upper strata then also these cynics would have problems saying exactly reverse – India is not all about the rich and billionares:)
To hell with these people
As I said they piss off people, here comes Jeet Menon! I am really pissed off by what you say about the movie and also by what your link leads to!!!
Sodomy and abuse of young children in India is not true?!!!
WTF!!! Every gully every nukkad has these stories… they never come out. irrespective of poor or rich, children are abused evrey second in India. And this is done mostly by people who are supposed to protect – fathers, uncles, aunts. Just show a chocolate, call the kid, and the next moment shove your dirty penis in her or his face! Are you blind?!! or are you deaf?!!! There is atleast one such case reported in the newspaper. Infact just today the times is carrying 2 such cases. here are the links Mr. Jeet and to all those who believe such things are not true…
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Thane/Youth-held-for-sodomy-in-Thane/articleshow/4337069.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Thane/Six-yr-old-raped-at-knifepoint/articleshow/4337047.cms
Rest my case… need to go back and have my rich and sambhar cooked with European Parsley in a microwave
STOP AND END THIS DISCUSSION HERE.
WHERE IS THIS GOING???? ITS JUST AN ARTICLE.. AAP LOG KYON POSTMORTEM KAR RAHE HO??
EVERYONE SHOULD RESPECT OPINIONS.. EVERYONE COMES FROM DIFFERENT SENSIBILITIES AND IS DIFFERENT..
THERE IS NO POINT IN ARGUEMENT.
WHERE IS THE THING GOING??
ARTICLE IS ABOUT SOMEHTING AND PPL ARE DISCUSSING SOMETHING ELSE..
ITS A HUMBLE REQUEST – STOP AND END THIS HERE ONLY..
FOR THE LOVE OF CINEMA..
U LOVED SDM – GOOD
U HATED SDM – GOOD
OK..
SLUMDOG MILLIONARE IS OVER.. JO HONA THA USKE SAATH HO GAYA..
STOP LIVING IN PAST BROTHERS..
CHALO YAARON ACHCHI FILME LIKHO, BANAO, DEKHO..
STOP THIS UN-NECESSARY ARGUEMENT HERE ONLY..
WITH LOADS OF LOVE,
MADAN,
FROM SHANTI SADAN.
——————– END OF TOPIC.
meri chavanni bhi uthalo doston…
I could not for the world of me understand why Mr.Boyle after having chosen great guys like Saurabh and Anil and Irfan and the lovely children…went ahead and picked Frieda and Dev Patel.
How authentic was the portrayal gonna be with an accented Dev…It sounded like a joke to see him mouthing dialogues. Im thinking maybe he wanted the western audience to understand his accent clearly whenever he spoke in English..
for once What on earth was that song at the end for???
bloody cheap gimmicks I must say..
You shud have seen all the coverage on Good morning America with yellow dupattas….
Oye where is the slum shlum issue gone…
sab kuch us song ne dilute kardiya!!!
What on earth is “Ringa ringa” downright regressive thats what it is coming from the hallowed fingertips of Mr Rehman..
Disgusted thats what I was at the end.
Dev and Frieda were so pathetic man !! next Bipasha bhi Boyle ke saath kaam karne ko raazi ho jayegi..bhikmangi ban kar
[ Editor Note: Cliff, some of your views have been deleted from your comment. You have been making comments which attack authors and other people directly. PFC would like to advise you to not to folow such behaviour in future. Please follow the PFC's comment policy and focus your attenion on the subject]
@Anurag Kashyap
You might be right about the fact that good movies made in India dont get as much exposure as the Big Blockbusters do.
…………., you say your movies dont get enough exposure and thats why there is no recognision. ……………, your movies are not saleable…simple as that! You cater to a niche audience dude, the masses really dont give a stained mattress in the field about techinical brilliance, non linear storytelling, and all the gimmicks. They want entertainment, your films fall short on that count. accept it, move on. If you have tasted success with Dev D, thank Amit Trivedi…without Emotional Attyachaar that was another dud too! I love ur movies…I’ve gone as far as travellin to bombay just to watch your movies. But you have to come to terms with one thing, you are no messiah…u r not saving the world…and you are definitely not a “profitable” film maker. Ur good, but dont let that get into your head….
To take the discussion forward (sorry Madan Sadan..debates get heaty, if you dont have the heart for it, go watch a movie
)
I think people are missing the core issue here.
The argument is about the western perception of India.
@Babel
Directing a movie is definitely not the equivalent of finding the cure to aids, but a film(due to huge reach) can change stigma related to AIDS in society, and that to me serves a greater purpose. Or can educate people about Cancer and other worldly problems.
Which brings us back to Danny Boyle, doesn’t SDM and Manjha bring the issue of Slums, Poverty, Child Molestation and Sodomy to the fore so we can address this issue? I am sure Danny Boyle didn’t set out to bring the issues up, he wanted to make a film he believed in, thats all he set out to do. But it had brought up these issues, will we deal with it? Its like blaming the doctor for telling you that you are diabetic! Now that you know the disease, find the cure…dont crucify the diagnostician.
Am I interested in finding the cure, absolutely not. Hell I hate social service, taking care of my greed is 24 hour job…so I cant spare the time. But yeah, I loved SDM…the slums r just the canvas painted on. As for Manjha, I haven’t watched it…so wont comment. Will I watch it? No!! Coz sodomy brings back bad memories.
[ Editor Note: Cliff, your comment has been partially deleted. Please follow the PFC's comment policy and focus your attenion on the subject]
@Cherish
“Off late the discussions on this forum aren’t good. Everybody is hell bent in proving their point and nobody wants to listen. If some gora had made movie on upper strata then also these cynics would have problems saying exactly reverse – India is not all about the rich and billionares:)
To hell with these people”
Isn’t ur post just as cycinal?
If you get into a discussion, you bring ur view into it..that is the point my friend. Intellectual Stimulation is great for bowel movements…….?
If any evidence is required as to why Film magazines sell rag and escapist and provocative movies get all the fame we need look no further than PFC ,where only articles which rake up controversy or are part of a direct attack on someone get all the comments.
Which is why an old topic which has been debated to death here comes up again and again like a ghost to haunt us and still receives audience ,while good articles often well researched ones do not get any attention at all ,I recollect a thoroughly well researched article detailing Satyajit Ray’s work published sometime back got 13 comments ,a post describing a radically new idea for cinema (open cinema foundation) gets no comments at all from the authors and we talk about change ,maybe Anurag is right.
Cliff, I think ‘escapist’ hindi cinema does a far greater service to the wretched Indian masses than say ‘Manjha’ or SDM ever could…it lifts them out of their misery for three glorious hours..which is why SRK and AB are icons today, and funnily enough the actuals slumdog kids would anyday rather go see Rab Ne or Dostana than Gulaal or SDM!.Truth is that the niche segment of the population that actually watches ‘indie’ films is not affected by the issues being portrayed onscreen..that is the greatest irony.
A case in point..popular tv series ‘Balika Vadhu’ that sheds light on social evils against child-women in rural India, is mostly watched my middle-upper middle class housewives who have never had to experience the horrors of the dust caked interiors..A social worker who works with actual victims of the crimes that are portrayed on BV said to me that she really wished they had access, time or permission to watch those shows..you think these fat, bored obtuse behenjis sitting in their Lokhanwala or Greater Kailash living rooms are ‘moved’ enough to actually do anything about it? No Way. Which is why your argument that movies can enlighten people and make a difference in the areas they shed light does not hold weight at all..
@Babel
I completely agree with u about escapist cinema.
But then that doesn’t change the situation, its just an escape from it. I am totally for it though, it gives people joy…it gives me joy, I love big star blockbusters., i love indie movies too, ur rit…i am fortunate enuff to be able to afford to watch just abt every movie i fancy. The stories that AK, Danny may not have the penetrating power to really touch lives and change the world, but that is not the ambition in the first place. Its an expression, like art…if u like it…watch it, if u dont…watch something else. But does it bring the issue to the forefront? Yes it does!! Aren’t we having a discussion about this? Is it not going to affect ur next vote? Does it not bring shame to the country? Does dat not start a movement?
I am assuming you are trying to change things on the field, would you be motivated to do that if some form of media did not expose you to this hard truth? Do you really think every person in the world has access to a slum in Mumbai? But just about anyone sitting anywhere can watch a movie and maybe not do anything, but some might!!
Nobody is born a social worker, its exposure that will touch ur heart. Films like any other form of media has the potential to touch you. If Danny Boyles movie got even one person to get down to mumbai and change one persons life…I think it is worth all the embarassment it brings India in the international media. That one life is worth alot more than the fake pride that we Indians wanna protect.
I dont claim to be altruistic, I’m a self centred greedy bastard, but I’m as assured as sunshine, that it will make atleast one person get up and do something. That to me makes it worthwhile.
@Vineet
The post describing a radically new idea for cinema (open cinema foundation) has been infused with questions and leads to discussion over and over again, but the author only wants excited puppies and that my friend is the wrong way to change things. You cant have everyone agreeing with u.
Babel – I loved your comments – especially the one calling out Anurag on his ridiculous martyr act. Well said.
janu meri jaan, mein tere kurbaan, mein tera, tu meri jaane saara hindustan..
haddipa
BREAKING NEWS !!
Danny bhai bought chasma from my shop today!
I guess one should take a clue from you babel.. provide free movies to these people, like you provide free medicines.. these people still would rather go for there home remedies and whatever there grandma told them.. Free medicines are not provided to people all over the world because the medicine making companies care, haven’t you heard of the medicine mafia.. don’t you know government hospitals, give 4 paracetamols a day to there patients instead of three. because of the larger monies exchanging hands.. NGO’s whose sole purpose is branding.. well reason i m saying this is that there is flip side to everything.. even in what you do and i am responding only to you because you actually do what you stand for and that’s a great thing.. and that does not mean that just because my cinema to you is a prestige piec e and is inaccessible to people who would prefer a SRK film, i should stop making it and talking about it. it means nothing to you.. it might mean something to someone, it means everything to me. But take my advice, you are on the wrong forum, for you there is www.bollywoodhungama.com .. you will find likeminded people there and you wouldn’t be wasting your energy trying to convince anyone otherwise.. you just go ahead and exchange ideas.. good for everyone..
im drunk!!!! pretty much!!!!<i dont kno how much but im pretty drunk!! but i feel that y feelings have to be reported on par with the so callled feelings of the intellectual peopls… Slumdog millionairess is a wonderful film bout human relationships tht fuckng no true indian would hve thgt apon!!! no true indian would have had the gumption to think about the the idea that a story of hope and survival could be derived from the day to day existence of the people from day to day existence in indian metropolitan cities. just to think about jamal and his story givs gooose bumps to me, so it does witrh ultimate number of people across the world, cos, its story of human spirit concouring the machine way of doing things!!!
Jai ho!!!
Im drunk!!!
Hey why is it I cannot access #comment-376073 (Anurag’s) from the PFC homepage? On clicking the link, it just takes me to the discussion main page, and not to the comment.
Das
Hey, the page just came up. Ignore earlier comment.
Das
your a real funny guy mr. kashyap…especially when the joke is on you…
i really used to admire you as a film maker but after looking up ur comments on this page…i can only laugh at you…
I thought PFC is a forum where cinema is debated with passion. Now it seems to be a personal window of a film maker seeking public attention by whatever means. Shameful.
Just stop it guys. Regardless of what I think of Mr Boyle asked to change his chasma I see this site is only being used for blame game and self projection. If you really love cinema then don’t do it.
@112, Anurag what a rude remark to someone who is actually walking the walk as you suggested. I guess since this person called you out then you had to get your petty revenge by telling him to go to a site you obviously consider intellectually inferior. Tacky behavior from someone like you is not expected but now you are showing your true colors.
As Cliff (#101) said you are no messiah and because you have tasted some recent success it has gone to your head.
As to the person you insulted, I applaud you for doing the field work that Boyle, Anurag and the rest of us are not doing.
From this day forward, I will watch Anurag’s movies online so he makes not one rupee from me.
@Lee
I wouldn’t go as far as banishing AK movies, I think his cinema is brilliant to be honest…but thats an acquired taste obviously. Is his cinema ever gonna get a big banner? Absolutely no chance! Give him 50 crores to spend, and it will be a futile effort towards a profitable movie and a damn sure way to end a career. No messiah at all, infact if anything…small budget is a safe net. Spend 40 crores on a Dev D, do the math…biggest flop of the year.
And before anyone starts ranting about how the ‘indian audience’ needs to grow up to ‘great cinema’., u have to understand dat film making (profitable) is a market driven industry, you just dont sell kulfi in antarctica dude…phir kulfi kitna bhi achcha hon.
i have to agree atleast partially with the writer of this post. while i dont have anything against Danny Boyle and i am sure SM was just his honest attempt at telling a heart warming story, it is true that the west in general does look at India as a land of poverty, much more so than it actually is.
I too thought that way too much was being made about SM in India and how it portrays India in a negative light, but after watching the oscars this year, and mostly because of the film that won best documentary, “Pinki Smiling” i have to agree with the so called cynics. Not only was it by far not the best nominated documentary, but it was also nothing new. it was along the same lines as the documentary made a few years ago about the children of sex workers.
once again, i have nothing against Boyle, but the fact is that as a whole unit the western media does tend to portray India in a light of poverty and corruption. it has become a trend like Bhajji bashing in australia or making fun of the Indian accent in Diasporic communities. While, with this as a base we cannot protest against good film makers making well meaning films, like SM, which atleast in my opinion talks about an important matter and holds it up to society in an entertaining manner like a good film should, but we must be wary of this general trend and not let India be marked as a land of slums and slumdogs like it used to be a land of just snake charmers.
Just a thought.
@Cliff, I like Anurag’s movies but I think he made an amazingly rude statement which is based on his outsized ego. To denigrate someone who is actually out there on the front lines doing good work while the rest of us sit back and talk about the ‘greatness’ of Boyle and Anurag is beyond the pale.
‘We judge our selves by intentions and others by behaviour.’If the thinking of people involved in this debate is too remove Slums & Poverty or bring awareness about Child Molestation and prostitution ,then no harm in it.Otherwise ,Danny Boyle has never made this movie for ‘brand india’ image projection in the west.He has made a movie on VS novel.Thats it.Condemning danny is of no use.
Patriotism does not mean to hide your country’s weak points but to work on it gradually.Both poverty and progress exist in India. Hence the opinion will always be divided in dualism of topic.Few people look dark side to avoid important matters to pe pushed inside carpet.There is nothing wrong in it.To each his own.
Nice discussion here :-).
There is a significant amount of people who did not like SDM, not because the movie is not well made but because it is not made with good intention, because it portrays the ugly part of India in ugliest possible way. Those who really liked the movie have complete freedom to like and defend the movie but PLEASE do not nullify others. Everyone has its own point of view. You can disagree, but why would you get angry?
I love my country and felt hurt the way movie(SDM) is projected, but I liked Mother India/Salaam Bombay. Why do you want to “Talibanize” us with your “point of views”. Lets the democracy prevail and respect everyone’s point of view.
AK has met Danny, and Danny loves India and he is a gentleman. Alright!! But I am not happy with the movie and the “image” my foreign colleagues carry about India which is further damaged by SDM. Cinema is not only an “Art”, it is also a mirror to our society. We should definitely see ugly faces in the mirror but we should definitely not project ONLY the ugly faces in front of the whole world.
If you try to understand why significant amount of people did not like the movie, you might see their point. You can’t label them as “ignorant”, “unintelligent”, “arrogant”, “narrow minded” Indians.
With lots of affection.
Dear Mr.Kashyap..I didn’t say you should stop making the kind of movies you want to make, simply that you should stop making yourself out to be some kind of martyr who is bearing the burdens of the world upon his shoulders…You have a right to do what you want, as does SRK…it does not make his kind of cinema inferior.
And thanks for your advice on Bollywood Hungama, at least those guys are not wallowing in self pity masquerading as existential angst …My friend before you advise people to ‘walk the talk’ try doing it yourself..and please don’t delude yourself by thinking that making so called ‘indie cinema’ is in any way going to alleviate the ills of this world..
Your buddy Danny Boyle caused the destruction of the pristine eco-system of Koh Pi Pi in Thailand after his dumb movie ‘The Beach’ was released, due to tens of thousands of ignorant tourists descending upon it…let’s hope you don’t do anything similar in the name of ‘Art’…
Kashyap, I’m sorry to say you live in the confines of an extremely limited world..you seem to think that all these star-struck children that pay you accolades on this site represent the mass of humanity…you are a joke my friend..There is a great big world out there buddy..try climbing out of your well and take a look at it someday..
And no, movies dont make a iota of difference in that world. So for all your grandstanding, you have exposed yourself to be another hollow media figure who is basically out of touch with reality.
Lee,Cliff etc..you know what is the real difference between Kashyap and say ‘commercial’ figures…they are honest about their craving for self-gratification and ‘wah-wah giri’…while KAshyap is not. He pretends to be the ‘true artist’ thereby setting himself apart from the rest, when in reality his kind is much worse..thinking that he is changing the world..what a pathetic state of affairs.
Come to one of the global war zones with me friend, and try performing surgery with bullets flying around you..then maybe you can say you’ve ‘walked the talk’..until then you’re nothing but a paper tiger, impressing little star-truck and ignorant wannabes, who are as clueless as you are..
well Babel and Cliff and Lee and Whoever.. I do whatever I know.. I am not a martyr.. I want a change and i am happy believing I am doing my bit.. i do not kill myself doing that and I am n ot willing to accept things the way they are.. what i do could be futile and worthless.. but i do it to the best of my ability.. happy making a difference to you all.. I am n ot pretentious, i just don’t know the other.. the fact that you waste so much time on PFC trying to prove you are right under a fictitious name, away from your trying to help the world proves you are not just a liar and pretender but also not doing what you want to.. i walk the talk i do.. i don’t want to or wish to walk the talk you do.. i seriously hope you ” Talk the walk” that you say you are doin g.. i don’t have to prove to you i make films, i do.. you have to prove to me you really do what you say.. prove it.. show me the evidence or fuck off.. you perform surgery in war zones.. bull shit.. i know people who do and they don’t get time in months to call familes.. you are on PFC everyday.. you prove your credentials, i will say i am a choot.. or else you are not just the fibbing choot, you are worse…
WOW! I am sorry I came into this riveting conversation so late! Was thinking this was just another piece about Danny Boyle and Slumdog Millionaire. Goes to show never ever assume anything.
Anirudhya – Great piece! So short and yet so insightful and to the point. I have to say I have been a great admirer of SM – along with millions of others – but you have given me an insight that I never considered. It’s a national pride that I feel strongly about my own country. It finally sank in, how a foreigner picked on India in a way… Like people who say “I can talk s**t about my mother but if someone else does, god help them!!”
Anyway, on the subject of the short film, call me a prude, call me old fashioned, call me all kinds of conservative names in the book, although I know this kind of scum exist in the world, I DON’T want to see it in my movies. I think the short film was a very poor choice. But to Mr. Boyle’s defense, and as Mr. Kashyap points out, he probably had very little to choose from. There seldom are great shorts about India which deal with anything other than squalor and poverty…
If someone says bad things can happen in the society, but showcasing it in cinema or any other form is bad…then its foolishness. Cinema is doing it duty, if film makers get profit out of it, all the more good. Its good to make profit by exposing the so called ‘Dark Underbelly’ than by selling ‘Item Number’ and innuendo filled nonsense, which makes the whole nation a billion strong mass of vegetables who lose all strength to retaliate. Just check out our parliament, you will find no gooders there. First try to stop them entering the highest administrative office of our nation, then preach proud morality to film makers…
Its interesting how personal comments from AK dont get moderated.
I didn’t take the walk the talk thing to heart, I do what I do best, might not be film making…but what I do gives me joy. Im definitely not performing surgery in a war zone, fuck I aint going close to no war zone as long as I have a choice. Which makes me wanna visit another way to explain this whole thing…Danny, Anurag, Lee, Babel and everyone else, we make our own choices brothers (n sisters) and nobody gets an explanation for it.
Peace.
@Anurag
You really outta look at the brighter side of things once in a while dude….its not all dark and cynical out there, but yeah…i respect your art…heck I LOVE IT!!!
hey kashyap..how come when u abuse people your comments dont get knocked off pfc..?? and how come u have so much time to check my online activity? shouldn’t u be off somewhere writing another self-pitying movie like Dev.D? just FYI i work constantly on the computer preparing project reports and have several windows open simultaneously…and no i dont have to prove shit to you. I do enjoy cinema, and therefore come to this site…what i dont enjoy is reading about fake gurus like u giving bullshit gyan to star struck chelas on pfc..the truth my friend is that all this ‘angst’ is just another MARKETING GIMMICK to sell ur product..why dont u just admit it..buddy what i see in one week of my life you wouldnt be able to pack into a hundred of your crappy movies…so dont tell me to fuck off….go have a nice wank, smoke a blunt and find some chelas who need a Guru..im not one of them…LOL
babel now you are speaking my language.. ha.. down to the anger and let out.. so you can’t take criticism either , nor the harshness.. so that proves me and you are the same kinds in just dissimilar boats.. that makes you exactly what i am.. human… the world is neither your vision , nor mine and deep down we are all the same with a POV which we think it is.. and that is what limits us.. i think we both do not qualify to speak for the world so lets just do our thing.. you save the world and let me imagine and live under the illusion i could make a difference.. happy saving..
@anurag
Subramaniapuram?
Babel.. I guess all the moderators are sleeping.. sunday advantage I guess..
call it quits and start focussing on topic guys.
What have we concluded here?
Every film maker has a right to film whatever he/she wants to and another film maker has whatever rights to include it in a DVD copy – now ppl who dont like it – create a propoganda site or something against DB and vent it out – or submit an iView to PFC – PFC will, I am sure publish it. This personal hedge fighting calling names and pulling each other down in the name of argument is sickening to read and that too beyond 100 comments.
pls spend ur energy on writing ur next anurag
@Jaiganesh
“What have we concluded here?”
WE ARE ALL RIGHT IN OUR OWN HEADS!!
@128, Anurag, you are now attacking me for voicing an opinion and I’m not even Indian. I’m as gora as your friend Boyle.
Anurag, I still stand by my words. You are now coming off as pretentious as the directors you down upon. You feel free to personally attack others on this forum who are not worshipping at your feet. Man I like you movies but based on what I have read on this forum I don’t like you.
BTW let me tell the view from the other side about SDM. My family and friends all saw the movie and think it is a hoot that it won awards since the movie was entertaining but nothing more. Some of them did not even like it and hello it had nothing to do with showing poverty or the underbelly of India (which they know nothing about and don’t care to know). They just felt the story sucked – it was implausible and they laughed at them speaking Engish throughtout most of the movie. But I guess you will call them names too – ignorant moviegoers, bigots, jealous, etc.
Why can’t some people accept the fact that there are different views of SDM and let it go? Just because a movie wins awards does not make it great. There have been many award winning movies that were average fare – Titantic, Gladiator, Forrest Gump, etc. Why the need for the herd mentality which says we must all like it because others do?
Bush won elections but that does not mean he is one of the best presidents or politicans ever. It just means that he fooled a lot of people like SDM.
@Lee
I think SDM is the best movie of last year, hence the accolades. The awards are infact a recognition of achievements for that specific year, so…I guess thats how slumdog ends up sweeping it. Personally I loved The Reader way way better, beats me how it didn’t win best oscar. But well, maybe thats the changing psyche of the western media, Nazi Germany and the Holocaust is an old story, India is the flavour of the season and they like it spicey. I kinda agree with the author of this post on that front, but I do now hold Danny Boyle responsible or blame him for portraying this image. It sells…he sold it. Simple as that, much like how Babel understands that SRK sells, and Anurag now understands that Gulaal doesn’t.
** I do not hold Danny responsible
Guys.. your opinion on SDM are welcome.. good or bad is a personal POV.. you hate it and it is fine.. i love it, is another matter.. I am talking about me being a martyr is what i am accused of.. I am doing my own thing.. i completely do not agree with this post.. it talks of a man’s intention without really knowing it.. so.. hence.. baaki jo hai sab bakwaas hai..
Anurag Kashyap, I WAS a fan.. now after reading all ur posts here, i m rethinking..
a person just posted what he wanted.. this is PASSION FOR CINEMA.. everyone has an opinion..
but bro, why are u taking it so PERSONAL?
i dint know u have so much ego in u ya..
Baat karo khaali.. bus?
PLEASE STOP THE TOPIC HERE..
ITS ENUFF..
ppl r goin on and on..
kaha se topic kaha gaya..
and u r no one anurag to ask us to go to passionforcinema or indiafm.. we will go where we want
wasssssssssssssssssssssssssa
oh priya oh priya priya.. tumsa nahi koi priya..
tu khush rahe.. yeh mere dil ki dua
@Cliff – If
‘WE ARE ALL RIGHT IN OUR OWN HEADS’
then why lose the cool?
@Jaiganesh
Nobody is losing his cool here, really. Its a discussion, but I promise u nobody skipped breakfast.
@Anurag
I completely agree with you about the post being a personal attack on dannys intention, which is wrong. But the author has a right to his POV, just like we do, completely deriding him is not called for. For a film maker who weaves such layers into the characters of his films, you have shown very little lateral movement and flexbility in ur thinking. kinda makes me sad really. I did respect u alot before ur comments here. If there is even the slightest chance dat the success of one film has gone into ur head….take a shower and reboot man…we want u to be successful but an arrogant sob, will fall flat on his face sooner than later. I wud hate to see that happen.
Just as opinion, take it in the right spirit.
hmmmm.. just got a chance to go through most of the comments over here.. baat kahan se kahan pahunch gaye.. reminds me of the discussion that I used to have with my wing mates during my college days
What surprises me is that some people do believe that cinema’s purpose is to bring change :-o
Do you guys seriously believe in it?? Man, I had always believed that cinema is all about entertainment and having a good time.. now entertainment might mean different things to different people. But at the end of the day all I look for in cinema is entertainment…
IMO, no job in the world is done to bring about change. people do it because of the love for it. heck, I never cared about any change in society and even if any action of mine is able to bring about any change, I would not feel any different. I like some of things which I do, and take great pride in just doing it. Of course, I look for money. But change, is something I dont care about…
Man, on my each visit on this site, I get so much to learn about human behavior
@Azad
And dat exactly is what cinema does.
You said it urself, everytime you visit this site, you get the learn about human behaviour. Cinema at some level affects the way you think, and that my friend is a change. Glad you like the discussions here.
@Azad….
Cinema ain’t for entertainment alone……first of all what is entertainment to you ,is getting shocked entertainment ? or is getting motivated to do something entertainment ?….dictionary defines it as an act which brings pleasure and relaxation ,if that is the case then I think that only a sicko can be entertained after watching Bandit Queen ,still it’s considered good cinema.
Lets put things into perspective for the average Indian Intellect here…
Recently the government of Dubai issued a memorandum wherein any film crew applying to shoot in Dubai has to submit a detailed script for evaluation.
The reason being, the government thinks the image of the city is being tarnished by some film makers by portraying it as a haven for the underworld. Anurag Kashyap himself is an offender, Black Friday only visits Dubai for one reason, yes I’m sure his research was spot on…but his and other films have given the Indian public in general an image that Dubai is all about the underworld and money.
The case is very similar if not identical to what Danny Boyle and some so called Documentary film makers are doing with the image of India in the international arena.
Now one might argue that it is not a film makers perrogative, that he/she is not responsible for the evils of society and cannot be blamed just because he portrays it in his cinema.
But think about it, doesn’t the average cinegoer develop a perspective of a country/race/religion through cinema?
Its understandable that it is impossible to touch the whole gamut of a society within a film, but stereotype is a film making staple, it is undoubtedly the commodity that gets the cash registers ringing and a few shameless film makers will rape it.
Dubai is just an example. Honestly dont you guys believe in the image that has been portrayed. Dubai se phone aaya toh “Bhai” ka hoga.
Hopefully Anurag sees the truth in this. I still dont hold Danny Boyle responsible, but I think more than Danny Boyle, Anurag has contributed to the situation by the choices he sent Danny. The five shorts he sent, had a similar premise and one message.
The government of Dubai took a stand, some might say it curbs creative liberty, but I’ll quote, “with great powers, comes greater responsibilities” – Spiderman
Cinema has great power, this energy can be used to uplift society and the mood of a country (Chak De India, Swades…I am purposely putting SRK films here…just so that his detractors see the extremism in their stance), and then there will be a few that will bring shame.
Creative freedom comes at a cost, how much are we willing to pay?
cliff…baap re …”average Indian Intellect” written by you?
hats off.
@rajan mawase
I didn’t mean to demean I was just tryin to find the mean of things, hence average.
still replies on this post.. WOW.. must be a warzone
@cliff. nice. very good point, stole the idea right out of my mind, just worded it better.
american radio host rush limbaugh recently said “There’s a reason [these jobs] aren’t coming back. They’re outsourced for a reason, an economic reason, and they’re not coming back,” Limbaugh said, while speaking to a caller named Terry from Ohio. “If you’re sitting out waiting for a job that’s now being done by a slumdog in India, and you’re waiting for that job to be cancelled, for the slumdog to be thrown out of work, and you to get the job, it ain’t going to happen. It’s not the way economics works.”
.
src:http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/apr/14/us-radio-host-indians-are-slumdogs.htm
@Ayush
Glad I could put your thoughts into words.
Hope we can take this discussion forwards.
yeah crazyrals//..u see? now the American right wing has taken ’slumdog’ and turned it into a racial epithet…so I will reiterate for all the Kashyaps out there..Danny Boyle is a victim of an age old conditioning process which reduces the entire ‘third world’ into cockroach infested, crime riddled cesspools, which can be their only depiction onscreen that will be accepted by mainstream audiences..he may not be aware of this, but it exists nevertheless..hey Kashyap, however high you may climb in your profession, you will always be another ’slumdog’ filmmaker who climbed out of the shit to make his mark in the ‘civilized’ world..Just like Laxmi Mittal is a slumdog industrialist who made good (much to the chagrin of the French at his taking over Arcelor), and just as Freida Pinto will be known as the first ever slumdog to grace the cover of People magazine…the list goes on. We will never, ever lose that epithet no matter how gentile,cultured and refined we feel we are…thanks to Boyle’s conveniently packaged and highly cliched representation of the ‘exotic east’…Hey Tata,Birla, Ambani, all you goddam slumdogs out there, are you listening?? A brand new label has just been coined to describe you all…now I am no longer seperated from the great Indian Unwashed mass..LOL..8 Oscars has made sure of that…r u listening , all you slumdogs with wireless internet,split a/c’s,two cars per household,Barista sipping,HBO watching citizens of a ‘Global Power’…haha, nothing but a bunch of Slumdogs at the end of the day…thanks Boyle.Not since Lord Macauley (who claimed to love India a lot) said that one shelf of British writing was worth more than the entire generations of Indian literature, has anyone done our nation such a great service…and even self-proclaimed ‘artists’ like Kashyap are busy lapping it up…
This is Pankaj Kumar. The cinematographer for Manjha. I have come pretty late in this discussion. I was particularly amused by Jeet Menon’s comment, who thought Manjha recieved huge funds to be made.
I’m sorry to break your illusion. The fact is Manjha was made with a modest budget of Rs. 60,000/- We are not rich boys with toys. At the time of making this film, both Rahi and I were completely broke (we still are, as a matter of fact). There was only a crew 5 people (excluding actors)during the shoot.
We shot in real locations (and not in expensive real looking sets, as you imagined). We found the right locations after two months of extensive recce. There are no jimmy jib or crane used in the film. Damn, we didn’t even have track and trolley. The entire film is shot handheld.
As for the lights – daylight sequences are shot in available light. For the night sequences, I used the headlights of a nearly dilapidated Maruti 800 of one of our crew members.
We used sony hdv camera to shoot the film, which is one of the cheapest cameras available in the rental market. We didn’t even have a decent mike to record on location sound.
The post work was done in extremely low-tech way.We did the entire color-correction and graphics work on rahi’s PC using adobe after effects.
Sound mixing and dubbing was done at a very cheap sound studio at extremely low rate (we had to beg on our knees).
In spite of this, if you felt the film was made on a high budget, then I take that as a compliment. We have triumphed over circumstances. We went through a lot of difficulty making this film. It wouldn’t be possible without Rahi’s passion.
Rahi had no intensions of selling poverty to international audiences.He didn’t even send the film to international film festivals. The only festival it has been to is MIFF, where it won the top honours. He just wanted to make a film on the story which was very close to his heart.
There are those who have loved the film, and there are those who have hated it. It’s perfectly fine. The important thing for the people related with manjha is that this film had to be made. I’ve been a part of many projects that are made solely for film festivals, keeping the western audience in mind. I’m sick and tired of doing those films. Manjha is certainly not one of those. I will vouch for that strongly.
I’m just keeping my fingers crossed for our next film Tumbad to get enough funds so that we can begin the journey we have been preparing for, for last three years.
@Pankaj Kumar
I haven’t watched Manjha so I cant comment on the quality of the documentary. But hats off to your dedication to the craft. I am sure you are doing what you want to do, and its commendable that you stick to it even through all the trials and tribulations.
The discussion has taken a completely new dimension, artists will always have freedom of expression…is this freedom and powerful medium used responsibly is the question to ponder on.
Thank you for dreaming on, I am not in the same line of business but your story is inspirational nevertheless.
@Babel
Dude, you need to do something about that persecution complex in your head! So you hear a bunch of hicks from the Bible belt using the ’slumdog” monicker and you get all hysterical! Chill already!! SDM is a brilliant film and Danny Boyle is a brilliant director and that is an acknowledged fact. Or maybe you prefer the SRK-doing-the-Bhangra-on-Wall Street kind of films, very entertaining, but unrealistic to the point of delusional. And for all those Slumdogs that you’ve listed including Freida, JAI HO!!
Neil…Rush Limbaugh is by no means a ‘bunch of hicks’…Rush Limbaugh IS THE VOICE of mainstream America…which comprises 50% of the population…and btw this right-wing extremist movement is gaining followers by the tens of thousands esp after Obama got elected..as of now about 200 million Americans would qualify as ‘bible-belt hicks’! Why, are you feeling emancipated because the white barista at Coffee Bean smiled at you yesterday?? LOL
@Babel
“Why, are you feeling emancipated because the white barista at Coffee Bean smiled at you yesterday?? LOL”
Yup, she was a hot barista!:) Seriously, when you use ‘emancipated’ and ‘white’ in the same sentence, it reeks of an inferiority complex. Dude, it does not matter anymore, “the Gora” is no longer your Bada Sahib so get over it. Why the desperate need to look good to the west? The fact remains, ’slumdog’ or not’, thousands worldwide are fawning over Frieda, thousands are working for Mittal, Tata, Birla etc. And millions have embraced the film and its narrative as a story of hope and love inspite almost insurmountable odds.
This reminds me of a line in a cheesy 80’s flick (yup I watch those too:)) called “Roadhouse” where a trainee ‘bouncer’ asks Patrick Swayze ‘what if someone calls my mother a whore’ and Swayze, in his uber cool 80s manner responds.”Is she?’
The point is, why get all lathered up over an ‘assumed’ slur and in the process deride an honest cinematic effort.
Dear Anirudhya,
Its about time you took off your rose coloured chashma and looked at the world around you in clear light.
There are dirty holes everywhere. Rahi Anil Barve’s film is about one such, but, its a beautifully made film about a dirty hole. Thats reality. Wake up.
The only point you are making is ”jhakli mootth savva lakhachi”,hyppocracy. Please get any of your marathi friends to translate that for you.