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Deciphering Khoya Khoya Chand
I am really scared that they are going to kill a film that i think is an extremely accomplished work of art.OK the film is inconsistent in parts, maybe it was cut down too much hence bringing in the inconsistency but still it’s importance can not be denied. As usual i went in expecting the world like everyone else, too much noise on a premiere and too many familiar people whose opinion you want to know on a film that everyone is going to have an opinion on, it all often clouds your judgement. Even overheard someone making some bitchy remarks about it. What can i say, a lot of people discovered sudhir after they saw Hazaaron.. well Sudhir that I know and have seen from yeh woh manzil .. to main zinda hoon.. to Dharavi ..to iss raat is much more than that.. he really has done things before others even ventured there.. Satya, the much celebrated cult classic of this country was conceived after Ramu saw Iss raat.. infact Sudhir was asked to work on it in the beginning before getting the famous Ramu Indifference treatment..
Coming back to KKC. It’s Sudhir’s most accomplished and objective work till date. To capture an era of indian cinema before it was bollywood, when it was a completely self congratulatory, incestuous but very rooted, debauched , emotionally orgiastic hellhole of creativity.. the era that gave us meaning and was probably the golden era of cinema.. there is a need to first decipher KKC before rejecting it, which i know is going to happen because it’s notches above the directors most loved HKA and also more complex.. it does not have a story, it has many which don’t necessarily come together in a satisfying way.. KKC is more reflections on a time gone by than telling a complete story.. a single character represents many.. it is history, the perverse history, perverse because it allows us to peep in to the lives of those emotionally tortured souls that created art we celebrate today, this is not how we would like to remember them, you see them as normal human beings conducting themselves in a superhuman way.. Rajat Kapoor as prem kumar unlike other films does not look larger than life but is larger than life..
When the film begins you see nikhat( soha ali khan) as an aspiring actress.. she begins as Suraiyya and Nargis, becomes Wahida and Meena kumari and ends as Meena Kumari and Madhubala.. her relationship with Zafar (shiney ahuja) transcends many real lives with the film..
Zafar in the beginning is both Sahir ludhianvi and Gurudutt.. more Sahir than Gurudutt .. His arrogance about himself is Saahir’s and his conviction and self doubt is gurudutt.. then when he decides to make a film and goes on a journey of making a film his life and love vis a vis Nikhat is the Kamaal Amarohi-Meena Kumari relationship and not the gurudutt waheeda story.. Vinay Pathak as Shyamul is what shyaam was to gurudutt and towards the end when he is taking care of Nikhat is more Kishore kumar was to an ailing Madhubala.. Who is Prem Kumar, i am not sure.. he is everyone, every star of the era.. he is bharat bhushan to pradeep kumar to dileep kumar.. he is all of them … Then what is sudhir trying to do.. he is merely reflecting on a era.. He is not telling us a great love story ,he is taking the myth off the very famous love stories of very famous then and now iconised people from the era.. he is making them human, he is making them as fallible and vulnerable as us and probably more fragile than us , which they were, it’s the story of a time and people who inhabited it, It’s both his 8 1/2 and Amarcord.. Yes Amarcord, because it’s one large family of characters, not related by blood but by representation..It’s what has been percolating in him(Sudhir).. it’s all that he heard and listened to when he was an impressionable young man about his heroes from his peers and poets that he most famously hung out with, from Nida Fazli to Javed Akhtar.. he is evoking a time that he longs for..
the film does not try to be profound and give out a message.. it just is.. a collection of moments that defined decisions and caused a lot of cinema.. it’s a collage of moments from the life of an emotionally fragile woman, who is constantly seeking the arms of her lover, she waits but never asks for it, she reacts but doesn’t demand it.. she just wants it..longs for it and dies waiting..the film is a heartbreaking montage and also an indifferent one.. that’s why it’s important.. it’s a reportage of times gone by..it’s just brilliant..
you need to watch it many times probably to assimilate it all but it is worth the effort.. in the end it’s an honest film of the era, extremely objective, impersonal yet personal, I would not look at the technical failings of the film because being a filmmaker i know that what sudhir has achieved at 1/6 th the cost of any bhansali film and the vastness of it all is impossible for a filmmaker to do even in india.. it is why the film is shot in closeups and not enough wide shots.. it has so many set pieces for a film at that cost and in the end i would like to raise a toast for the achievements KKC makes and would choose to ignore what it could not..
well PFC seems to be doin the ryt thing for KKC,
we have a Sudhir mishra post and an Anurag Kashyap post in one same nyt !!!
what wud it actually cost to shoot a period film like this ??
i mean “IRUVAR ” was 70 ies is it ?? i guess from 60 ies to 80 ies …
how costly was that ???
and it was made in tamil .. so imagine its not even 30 % of the entire market that a hindi movie can get ..
so how costly is it actually??
so does this mean that it wud be almost impossible to shoot a good quality period film in regional languages ??
i mean without technical short falls … like i wud like to see somne LONG shots too !!!
ah!!! so mr. anurag has already opened the pandora box… hmmm..i haven’t seen the film but there is so much desire to like this film rather than hate … i hope i don’t get terribly disapppoooinnnteddd…
The deciphering of the story is interesting and I hope the movie recovers its cost.
I’m really looking forward to it. Nice to read your view on it.
Anurag,
How can you write about KKC without talking about its music. I think it is completely out of this world. Every song is a gem and do you agree if I say that in another 20 years, Sonu Nigam will be regarded at same level as Rafi, Kishore etc if he gets to sing some more of O Re Pakhi’s?
btw is the movie so good that you are overwhelmed by it and completely forgot about the music?
I really want to watch this in cinema hall. cheers
hey anurag after reading u i jus comes on my toes..i was always thinking that this film is larger than life but one has to see it from that pov…one should know the “H” of the history to know the whole tree anotherwise at the end it will be only a great love story…like BF a great film…..no more commemt on the film coz this is the very first day of the film and n mine show is at 12 o’ clock
From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 4, Issue 47, Dated Dec 08 , 2007
It was interesting to read the article for one having not yet seen the film, it gives one a strange impression about the film. Is Anurag defending a highly self indulgent work? Is is disagreeing with it, without really saying so? I’m not sure, nonetheless its fun to read.
But rest assured I’m really looking forward to it. Anything from a bygone era of Hindi cinema is a welcome breath of fresh air, even if its only a collage.
hahahaha anuraag if u liked a film be proud and say aloud that you liked it……..i loved no smoking and i dont hide it from people
oh i loved it..
i am trying to do what i think i should have done before no smoking and did not..
i seriously loved it
I m a business man’s SON
First would be dus kahaniyan
10 at a price of 1
Khoya Khoya Chand, definitely but Later!
Hi
I am dieing to decipher the beauties of 50 n 60’s. Looking fwd to more unfolding tales of time celebarted today as classic. It feels like a dazzled student to understand week factual, failible nature of represenatative of bygone era.
I seriously love history channel documentary of past.
I sincerely hope literature and larger than life figures are brought to colour by makers such as competent member of this forum.
There are certain genres I absolutely dig, period films is one of them. I’m going to watch it with a heavy bias. I dont know if my sensibilities are skewed, but I could never bring myself to loathe such cinema. Even if KKC does’nt have a story per se as AK mentioned, I’d watch it for Sudhir Mishra treatment. Give me KKC ’s BF’s any day over OSO’s and Saawariya’ s. Candy Floss would have its watchers, but do I care for such cinema. FCUK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations Mr Mishra !
It was nice to lose oneself in the heady waft of forgotten movie charm.
As I savour the lingering aftertastes of your concoction, I am compelled to recollect elements in a rough chronology of personally perceived intensity.
Soniya Jehan ! - Wow ! Dont know where shes from, …dont know who she is. But she will certainly go places ! She commands the screen.
Shiney and Soha were commendable in parts too.
The Foley Sound Fx and ambient sound design really struck me. Refreshing ! You can weave sub-text there too ! ( Why was the dubbing lacking ? )
The Music ! What a mellifluous earful ! Loved the way it seamlessly integrates itself into the narrative. Loved the way it lends texture and character to the film. Maybe a more rough sound would have been preferable over the “noise cleaned” recordings.
Loved the usage of silhouettes. But shot composition seems to have been a tough war through the entire shoot. One example is too glaring where the camera moves back ( against situational logic ) to accomodate a wider re-framing in the “birthday bash scene”. A closer look also reveals inconsistencies in lighting logic in many shots.
I dont intend to nitpick on technicalities but even the editing leaves much to be desired. A really bad cut to “Soha in the car” from “Soha in the car” comes to mind. I understand the extended “shot spillovers” which were intended in the context of the film to facilitate late cuts.
Again, at the risk of sounding petty, if one can arrange vintage cars, cameras and even badminton rackets, …then why, pray, overlook readymade shirts and contemporary haircuts (I am talking mainly about the extras ) ?
The narrative gave me a feeling of “lets make a heart felt film tediously” at the onset to “lets wrap this up, …bahut ho gaya!” ( as the financer in the film says !) Nikhat’s emotional build-up isnt alloted justified screen time. Maybe Prem Kumar should have been more “fleshed out”.
Also, you are jumping time anyway, so why place “2 months later” supers at just a couple of points ?
I shall not comment on the fragmented narrative or the content and form in general as these are exclusive to the directors creative vision.
All said and done, love the “pickle” aftertaste.
bloody,,,,bullshit,,,i mean wanted to see NO SMOKING first day first show…. tried two multiplexes……unfortunately,,,the film had started in both their screens,,,,, HAD TO WATCH forcefully JAB WE MET…..though enjoyed the film….!!!!
thought will see the movie…next day,,,,but wait on…….here comes MASANDBHAI/……and other Chu***’s……with their more chu***tic reviews….and i am left with no company to see the film,,,,,and the eagerness to watch the film faded off too….thanks also to my tight schedule….!!!!
just watched the film now…..and to explain it in one line….!!!!
it had gripped me till the end…..though i am not a advocate of open ended finish…like in this one…..like in aparna sen’s 16 PARK AVENUE…>!!
but i guess it does leave us still thinking about the film…and thats what exactly what i am feeling….!!!!
i enjoyed the fi;m…and the idea of writing a personal review of the film will have to wait ,,as would like to first sink in the after effects of the film,,,it has left me numb right now……!!!!
go on ANURAG…..!!!!
Khoya Khoya Chand is like a very old Whiskey , one cant enjoy it in one gulp.Its not OSO or any other mills and boons movie.One has to develop taste for this movie and see it again and again and then one wud start understanding and enjoying the movie.
only one thing i can say abt this movie after watching it on first day , yeh movie chutiyo ke liye nahi hain.
Anurag
If I hadn’t read your explanation about KKC, then I would have actually made some very vicious comments about the movie, especially about the way it has been crafted. The way you have decipher the movie has only made me understand it much better but the only lament that I have is, wish I would have read it earlier so that I could have enjoyed it much more while watching. Rather, it would have been better if Sudhir himself would have penned few words describing the characters of the movie in some newspaper.
Talking about KKC, it has too many loose ends and how much I wished Chitrangada Singh would have done the role of Nikhat. Though Soha was looking very appealing but something was lacking in her acting, some sort of void was there is the movie.
Never-the-less, I wish for KKC to be appreciated much more, people should have apt knowledge about the plot of the movie. After all it is a period drama and not any so called girl meets boy romance or remixed and rehash movie.
And not to offend you, the same goes for your movie ‘No Smoking” too. It is an earnest request, that please educate people about your movies when make one. What it is all about, what is your source of inspiration (if any), any technical specification / frame detail that you would like to share etc. And the reason for doing this is, that people like you have a different thought process altogether, which is at times difficult to understand. Trust me, the effort would be worthwhile and well appreciated too. Hope you would understand it.
Hello Jwalant saab !!
Kaise ho aap ?
Boss - I am the first person to say that Sonu Nigam is the most talented active-singer in the industry today. But I really do not understand if you have ever known the level of Mr Mohd Rafi or Mr Kishore Kumar.
Let him sing 500 “O Re Paakhi’s” - he cannot get even close to that level. He can only dream about it or shout over the top of his voice or express his opinions and crap assurances of being “different”
KCP
PS - BTW remembering the title song of KKC,I simply HATE the husky and/or soofi voices that are cropping up these days in the film songs. God stop them !!
What does one decipher? That which is ambiguous, obscure, or illegible - a puzzle maybe. Or, we decipher as when we convert a highly coded message into simple language. I saw Khoya Khoya Chand. Found it interesting and even engaging in parts but, at times, forgive me for being blunt, tedious. After reading your deciphering, I have become confused. I was a lot happier without it. It has happened twice over in recent past and both the times it was your interpretation that spoilt an otherwise a worthwhile activity. Your detailed interpretation of your own film, No Smoking, was an unhelpful act. A bit desperate, if I may add.
Dear Anurag:
I really don’t know why you have to keep harping on about “No Smoking” and sulk about what the critics had to say. It was one of the crappiest movies I have ever seen. I should have avoided it on the basis of the reviews but decided to watch it and decide for myself after all the banter that was on about it.
All this talk of there being a deeper sense to the movie and that it is metaphorical is plain hogwash, the movie stank and hence it sank. I am no fan of the regular bump-and-grind kind masala movies and really like off-beat movies like omkara, Hazaaron Khwaise Aisi etc. And good movies such as these do meet with success. But you remind me of that usual loser bunch that one finds at alumni meets that often goes “if only i had found a venture capitalist”, “my idea was too far ahead for the times” etc etc.
See Anurag intellectual posturing is the resort of the incompetent and the unsuccessful. For the record I think your Black Friday also stank, you had a preprepared story line and you just had to keep it tight but the movie meanders in the second half and nearly put me to sleep.
Frankly speaking, I fail to understand what all the hype surrounding you is about, you are at best mediocre and seem to revel in the praise of this incestous bunch that your have gathered at PFC. As befits all your types you will largely be ignored and your ravings will end in a whimper.
@ Mini
@ GT
Way to go ! We need people like you to speak out !
Not being able to communicate with an audience is a failure on the storyteller’s part ! Period !
If you are smarter than your audience, relay radio signals to E.T.s !
For the record, I wanna state something everybody should note. Am tired of folks talking about “personal expression” in the arts.
Well, “express”, the term by itself means communicating to somebody. If your audience doesnt get it, you HAVENT expressed !
Its sad that for many a people I have seen here digging up “meanings” in a film where none existed or was intended in the first place, its just a plain case of “the emperors new clothes” !
@GT+p(l)ayb(l)ack
do read the date on your newspapers everyday.
u ppl seem to be living in a phase difference.
maybe not ur fault but do try to express ur opinions on time. the world has moved on and so should you.
and also get the concept of blogs right.
u were not made to pay for these write ups or forcefully made to read them. so instead of commenting on what to write, either agree or disagree with the article or completely ignore it.
kcp,
I did not say he is already at that level. I said and I still believe that in another 20 hears he can be there. Dont forget the quality of music directors then and what is being churned out now.
I am not sure if and when Sonu spoke himself about it comparing to the legends.
I am glad we agree that he is best avalable today.
Comparison anyways here probably does not make sense
Hi AK, I wrote a piece on John Abraham for The Weekend Today (Singapore). NS is mentioned in the piece. Please have a look at it here:
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/226352.asp
Regards
Zafar
@ KJ
Pray enlighten as to the “phase difference” you mentioned.
And where have I dictated “what other people should write” ?
My comment was on expression and perception.
Sorry GT i also don’t know what the hype is about..may be there are enough fools around to believe the hype and give me money.. i am not complaining..
BTW what’s your next big venture
Anurag…there are fools who give money to ANYONE these days…case in point Vikram Bhatt, Rahul Rawail, David Dhawan etc, etc….Bollywood is filled with mediocrity, which miraculously keeps getting financed….as far as big ventures go, I think living this life is a big enough venture,in fact the biggest of them all, dont you think…?
lol@ Anurag :D
@Anurag sir,
GT raised a issue abt black friday saying that the story was preprepared !!!
i am not bothered abt it, but i just wanted to know in general terms … why has a trend set in india that the director has to come up with the story !!
and tats one reason i believe we are not able to give quality stuff .. we got to handle stuff in separate departments, and bring out the screen writers … in ur case u r a screen writer turned director .. am i wrong ??
Kamal sir once stated that … we have a dearth for screen writers and tats why myself and Mani and screen writers by default!!
GT perhaps lot of people blogging here are losers… but don’t you think you are the biggest loser who doesn’t even have the balls to tell his name before commenting on other people.. dum hai toh thok kar bolo..
Suchita…a blog is a blog is a blog….putting out your real name on a blog is really not such a big deal…it’s simply a forum for expressing opinions,not the goddam parilament. There are no losers or winners here. Just because someone doesn’t worship the same gods that you do, is no reason to attack them. So grow up and get a life, will ya?
Tonyd do I know you? If yes then you could have said the same thing via sms…instead of writing here
and why don’t you get a life instead of giving me the bhashan to do that…and i am not worshiping any god.. and stop trying to prove anything
seriously guys, some of you needlessly look for ‘deeper meanings’ in movies. You guys give ‘interpretation’ a whole new angle. I agree with playback and GT. Good films will always get good reviews - how come Nagesh, Vishal, Sudhir etc etc get good reviews for films which are surely not made for the masses and which certainly do not fall under the masala film bracket. NS was never a good film and that’s why it didnt get good reviews. You just dont make a film which is your personal expression and then ask everyone to interpret it their own way. You call it an intelligent film :-? - In how many ways did you interpret momento or matrix?
AK you are trying too hard to prove your point! Make movies which audiences can understand. Tone down the unnecessary complexities. Unless we can understant what you are trying to say, we are bound to mis-interpret you and your work.
Not many have the luxury to prep themselves by reading PFC blogs before they go and watch your film. Its too much to ask for.
yikes, spell check - Memento and not Momento..my bad :”>
Anyone offering to decipher a film for me will have to be either intellectually superior to me or just plainly patronising. The first one is tough, the second a strict no no. That was my point.
Give credit where its due. Black Friday is good movie and its not just because of the story. Its because of everyone involved in it, including Anurag as well.And IMO, Anurag deserves the max credit for it. Same applies to NS as well, where Anurag deserves the most of the criticism for it.
it’s strange to find suddenly new names dropping in to attack.. cool
i accept defeat and wave the white flag and i m not talking NS , i talk KKC
sounds like everyone is looking for a meaning etc etc .
freaks
why?
let the film put you to sleep , and then let it haunt you.
ANURAG,
i feel bad for you man, i really do….here you are trying to talk about kkc and all people want to post is commnents about NS and you….sad…..guess you are now becoming the KJO of sensible cinema…lol
just one more thing can someone tell me the budget of KKC??????
KKC is another example of an intelligent question to relationships. The film world of the 50s just happen to be the playground IMHO..I loved the interplay..of course, period cinema has its own appeal and hiccups..but I, for one, concentrated on relationship interplay, the edgy world the characters lived in, the DNA of celluloid then, the urge or need to grow famous!!
As the acts went, Ranvir Pathak, Sonya and Sushmita Mukherjee followed by the others.
Ranvir did some amazing weight increase or decrease (??) through the movie. His demeanour in this movie is just so heart rending!!
Sonya, as everybody mentions has done some great work with her expressions. Phew!!
Sushmita, please..someone give her some more such fabulous work now!!
Shiney needs to progress. He has the films. He needs to make it count. Soha needed a little more support with her act. Guys, just think if this role were to be done by Gul Panag??!!!
Indraneel, Agree that Ranvir Shorey and Vinay Pathak make an amzing comic duo, but Ranvir Pathak???
@Anurag
IS Vikramaditya Motwane’s film happening?
Anurag ! U are a darling ! Stay that way ! :D
I second P(L)AYBACK…
So which movie went for OSCARS this year?:-?
GT - your post is certainly on the wrong message board. They will lynch you here:)
But even if this were a balanced board, your observation would appear harsh and uncalled for. Anurag may not be the best of his generation (I don’t believe even he thinks so), but he is a rare gem that could do wonders for the medium. Give the man credit for his perseverance, don’t crush his spirit :)
Anurag - It may do you good to stay away from these boards ocasionally… for your own sense of balance :)
I don’t think we are some family out here showing loyalty to all films made under the banner of art cinema.I saw khoya khoya chand yesterday and what the heck does the director means when he says “tribute to golden years of indian cinema”.Either the film is marketed to me badly or the film is itself made badly.And I think sudhir is developing this absolute tolerance fr every form of existence like stars or artists and wants to show that.I didn’t like the movie ,Ideally I shldn’t compare it ofcourse but I would do inevetably with sudhir’s earlier works and was quite disspointed.But please understand that,I will never say movie isn’t worth watching.
Hi AK
Sorry for writing in off-track.
I am a struggling film writer. I’ve got some wonderful concepts which I can bet y’d love to do.
plz. e me if u r intrested.
@ Anurag
”
Sorry GT i also don
@chandra
even i couldnt get that tribute thing .. maybe they marketed it this way just to make the ppl curious
I am with GT, he/she might have put things a bit too harshly but is essentially right. I have been following the blogs/comments here for a while now and was initially of the hope that something like this might encourage better movie making. But I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the group is very biased, vitriolic towards ones making more mainstream movies, worship the likes of anurag and shy away from telling him that most of his work of late is just pure bad.
Guys get familiar with the concept of constructive criticism and be frank, you are a community dedicated to the art of movie making don’t act like sycophantic politicians.
@GT and Ram,
Bhai log,
No where you get opportunity to express your opinion directly to filmmakers as you get it here. so please understand that scenario. Will any of you, say samething on face of any filmmaker in verbal manner when coming face to face as you have written here. Will you be more polite while speaking with filmmakers?
If yes then is it justified to write simply that you film is so bad Man, its awaful etc etc?
When as an awakened audience, you can see why a film is not working for you, cant you be more helpful in saying exactly those objections rather than to sing one word song that film is bad, film is bad. what in film is bad, please express that so that this opportunity of interaction between real filmmakers and real audience can bring fruitful results.
This is not necessary that all good films will make a good business on BO and PFC is not to discuss BO results.
and the post is devoted to KKC. if you have seen it and have not liked it then please say what you did not like? Do you have any questions to ask from its maker? then post your question on Sudhir Ji’s post.
May be with your questions others also can get some more information about same film.
Who is 100% knowledgable here? all are learning from each other.
Everything can be mentioned in friendly manner. Or you have strong disliking towards people here? as then it will be difficult for you guys to understand whatever importance of such places can be. Please keep liberal attitude and enjoy something here rather than to point out extremities which dont exist.
- Step 1. Anurag posts in his blog
- Step 2. Chutiyon ki baraat enters PFC
- Step 3. Baraat has all masked people who refuse to reveal their identites, lashing out under the pretext that it is their right to remain anonymous. Conveniently overlooking that they are attacking a person who is not (anonymous).
- Step 4. Chutiyon ki baraat raises mayhem.
- Step 5. Chutiyon ki baraat leaves.
- Step 6. You never see anyone from this chutiyon ki baraat discussing anything else on PFC or are seen anywhere else on PFC. Never see them reading or commenting on other posts, or not a single one was seen in the pfcone festival.
PFC please raise a red flag everytime this chutiyon ki baraat passes by, so we can all skip the comments section until the last chutiya has left the building.
To answer your question Rick, Khoya Khoya Chand was made/publicized/released within a budget of 6 crores. (Yes!)
And then again I cannot refrain from adding that it seems that we, out here, at PFC have all become mouthpieces of each other. Perhaps scared to call a spade a spade for the fear of harming our own ‘kind’, fellow filmmakers of the
Ess, And I’m not here to be keep going “WHAT THE F*((k” are you talking about… I just finished reading two reviews that slaughtered KKC and a few that praised it. If you just wanna read on PFC what you felt about the movie… you are at the wrong place… Just shut up and look around before making statements as above… you end up looking like an idiot… probably worse.
@Anurag
Did you write the dialogues for Goal ?
If yes, is this your line .. “yeh zameen hamaari thi, hamaari hain, hamaari rahegi” .. ?
If yes, can I ask you what that was all about ?
@ Don G
”
- Step 3. Baraat has all masked people who refuse to reveal their identites, lashing out under the pretext that it is their right to remain anonymous.
”
“Don G” is this what you r known as?
@ RK
“Everything can be mentioned in friendly manner.”
RK Bhai, someone is letting you down.
- Vivek Thakur, Ok you are an exception. Be proud of it ;)… and if you did not understand “why the other guy is being asked of his next big venture”… be sad that you are an idiot who doesn’t get it… or perhaps understood what was meant but is flaying his dick all over PFC to show he doesn’t get it… well the chutiyon ki baraat is still here self brushing their egos
Don G de dude…Peace I say!
That comment is directed at Anurag. The questions are directed at him. Be kind enough to let him answer. Do not be his mouthpiece (ahem)
And if you aren’t here to go on the fuck about what i’m talking about, why are you?
Cheers,
Idiot (or probably worse :)
@Vivek,
No Brother, I am already standing and walking on earth so aur kitna neeche jaunga? :-?
Don G is well wisher of PFC and anybody will be angry if foolish people go on repeating same negativity all the time. They cant see that PFC never makes a single post covering any film but many posts are published and they may have as varied versions about a film as rivers or states or languages in India and if still stagnant minds go on calling names to PFC then any sane mind can have anger for a little time.
Rather than to express their views, people start accusing posts and their authors that why they are not writing what these readers have in their mind. Comment section is for that liberty of expression. Wriet what you feel but write on the topic rather than on the authors or on PFC as PFC is a vast word covering many things and nobody can paint it in one colour only and even Kieslowski will be failed here as he has used only 3 colours while PFC is complete Rainbow.:d
Ess, So now people should not have an opinion about you simply because your comment is directed at someone else? Your comments are on a public forum… and so people should simply close their eyes or not have an opinion on your behavior or underlinings of such here… WOW talk about Hypocrisy.
Guys take a break …common man this post is on KKC and you ppl are endlessly commenting on the author and other things …..
@ RK
“Don G is well wisher of PFC and anybody will be angry if foolish people go on repeating same negativity all the time.”
Exactly bro, so if some ppl discovering new lower levels, should we start competing with them? Lets just ignore them, they will come and go, at least we maintain the objectivity and just discuss the the subject and matter of the article.
Hypocrisy? No way… talk about me, I love it.
But, leaving me aside, are you here to express or argue over opinions on films or opinions on people?
I am as fond of PFC as anyone else, and this is in no way targeted at belittling it. What one feels, one writes. And that goes for you too.
So once again, peace. Really.
KKC is a good film as like other sudhir movies.But unfortunately soha is miscast in the movie.She is not a bad actress but i felt thst she did not suit a
complex role like this.But Urmila was excellant in somewhat similar role in RGV’s underrated Mast
Some guys out here seems to be gushing abt KKC’s music which frankly speaking I found pretty ordinary.Shantanu Moitra just like AR Rahman seems to be overhyped by media and seems to be lucky to get always good reviews but realy talented music directors like Vishal Bharadwaj and Jatin Lalit.Everyone seems to be in bashing mood for Nosmoking,but I think music of that film was great,it was different but no one seems to notice since music director happens to be Vishal Bharadwaj Why is it so?….
You are right about the ordinariness of Shantanu’s music in Khoya Khoya Chand. It is indeed disappointing. But I disagree with the rest. AR Rehman is way ahead of Vishal Bharadwaj even if I respect Vishal’s music a great deal. I would rather not comment about Jatin Lalit. Even when AR is overhyped, his music still stands out. Vishal’s music for No Smoking was below average. The songs did not register at all. The text in Rekha’s track was completely lost. She was reduced to a mere sound effect or at best a voice-stereotype.
oh i saw the film yresterday and was comletely overwhelmed by it…i kept thinking about it and i it was a romantic experience..walking on bombay roads back home thinking about it…just this sunday my friend and me went to a village near marve ..we smoked up and sitting on rocks talking about relationships and the talk moved from insecurity to love we share with our blood relation and human existence…and the need to be loved because we all are needy…i loved the film..it was like watching those stanly kuan movies
u guys are right .. Shantanu to me is going down all the time … he isnt as good as ppl are hyping him to be ..
his ‘parineeta’ album was good .. but even in that film a couple of tunes were lifted from rabindra sangeet (old bengali songs)
his music in ‘laga chunari’ was plain run-of-the-mill and even dull, was okay in ‘lage raho’.
In KKC the o re pakhi song is also an existing tune .. in the rest of the album only the title track is hummable (and will probably fade away by the next month)
@sharath
thanks for stating that u too think that ar rehman is overhyped .. i thought i was the only one who thought so .. but i think he is far far ahead of shantanu moitra still (roja , rdb , swades , lagaan )
Man I seem to have kicked up a storm. I might have been a bit harsh but it was only because I was so let down by “No Smoking” after, believe me, going to great lengths to watch the movie a couple of days back. What’s more I had pushed a few of my pals, against their many protests, to join me.
In any case going by all your comments I think KKC is also avoidable. It is sad that for a country so big there is almost a chronic dearth of quality entertainment. No sports, no good movies, mortifying TV serials … the only good pastime left to the junta is eating out and boy are we stuffing ourselves.
Hi folks…
reading through all the comments here and on other posts related to KKC, I couldnt help myself from letting it out.
I have seen this movie twice… within a gap of 2 days… and this movie seem to grow and capture ur imagination slowly.. like a mature wine.. almost like its music.
well my reactions to some of the comments above:
no good movies said somebody.. if this is not a good movie, then i cant understand what is?!!! this movie talks about the passion that leads individuals, that motivates them to do extraordinary things under difficult circumsatnces. U got to go back to those times, when the film industry was not at all an industry… it was wat it was because of some highly motivated and passionate people, People who were passionate about making movies, creating somethng rather than what it will earn them, the fame or money… thse things didnt matter to them… The movie is a tribute to those people and to their spirits…
If u feel the movie is disjointed and disoriented, then it is… it doesnt have a linear story though it appears to have one. It starts of with Shamul being the sutradhaar and in between tells us the pov of nikhat, then prem kumar, then Zafar, shifting back to Nikhat, to Shamul agian, finally coming back to Nikhat, whose character personifies the spirit i talked about… If u minutely look at the details, each and evry transition of this pov is indicated by a subtle hint, for eg: when zafar is lost, and wants to leave this place, he breaks a glass of wine, the story shifts to nikhats pov.. then again she breaks a bottle and the story again shifts to Shamul.. this is a wonderful way, I feel to tell such a complex story in a simple way… and then the use of lighting to tell a story… this is the first time I have experienced this… In almost all the scenes, esp. the ones with the movie shooting, Sudhirji and his team has created a depth.. with lighting… when zafar and nikhat meet, when zafar is drunk and creates a scene at the shooting… the whole screen has given a depth by the lighting.. when nikhat asks zafar to marry her in the hospital, zafar is shown in dark while shamuls face is lighted up. I feel this is a great way to capture 2 peoples emotion at one time… zafars arrogance is captured by him closing the door n his dialouge, while the lighted up face of shamuls face shows his resignation to the fate…wonderful…ANd in another post, someone had commented on the lack of passion in making the movie.. I ask them, if detailing of the story to this level is not passion then what the hell is it?!!!
And the music… well what can I say… the song thirak thirak is still playing in my head… the characters rotating with passion… the words themselves summarising the inspiration behind the movie… well Sudhirji… this for me is ur seminal movie… I feel it is right up there with ur HKA.. if not above it… I gues, it will take more watching from me to plcae it exactly…
Can anybody tell me from where “O re pakhi” from KKC is lifted as someone claims above? I thought its a beautiful rendition, would love to hear the original. I agree on the general mood about Shantanu over here, he’s a little over-rated. Remember his song from “Pal pal pal…”, a direct lift of “Theme for a dream” by Cliff Richard. Nohting pisses me more than copying blatantly! And imho, the music of NS was among the best of this year. The Adnan Sami’s version of “jab bhi cigarette jalti hai..” is the best jazz song to come out of bollywood. What say guys? Even Vishal’s music for Blue Umbrella’s title song captured the naughtiness which was required in the character of that girl. He’s right up there..
@Vivek (66)
you are very right but as Sholay had that dialogue where Jai says to Veeru - Aajkal to chor Dakuyon ko bhee phir se basne ka mauka diya jata hai.
and Sonia Gandhi even pardoned killers of her husband
and at many places in India hard core terrorists are asked to come back in mainstream
so with that understanding sometime we also try that those who are not here simply to attack personally some, and are doing this out of ignorance, they can be taken with main stream of PFC.
With that hope, sometimes these efforts are done.
PFC is becoming like that old saying
Mano to behati Ganga na mano to behta pani.:)
Vishal is Vishaltam :)>-^:)^>:d<[-o<
Anurag,
Would you say exactly the same things about the film if it wasn’t made by Sudhir Mishra but by some other director?
eventhough I am sorry that I am veering of the topic still i have to say it.Vishal Bharadwaj is far more talented than AR Rahman.AR Rahman has been plain lucky,the films for which he has given music turned out to be superhits and it definitely helps.Ex:lagaan,RDB,Guru..But where as poor Vishal Bharadwaj’s films were super duper flops like nosmoking,chupke se,jahan tum le chalo,omkara,nishabd,Bhagmati..I am also not able to understand why critics are frightened of AR Rahman.Who remembers songs of films like Pukaar,Bose,Fire,mangal pandey?still he got good reviews for that..
i think i read in one of sudhir’s articles only that tune of ‘o re pakhi’ is frm rabindra sangeet .. im sure abt ‘piyu bole’ and one other song in parineeta (dont remember which) being taken frm old bengali songs . read it somewhere . also coz i saw an old bengali film (charulata) where the female protagonist is humming the same tunes .
i didnt knw that ‘pal pal pal’ was also lifted :-s
Hey Anurag
havent seen it yet and dont know when i can. I guess theres no dhol, maizefields of punjab and shahrukh khan in this movie and hence the Patels,Singhs and Mukherjees of New Jersey dont give a fuck. “Sudhir who?” “Is rat ki what?” “was it a movie or a documentary”?
Anyway cant do much. Have to wait till the the DVD comes out,I dont like piracy. Also waiting for Rambo4. jan 25th when i will be a school boy again….man those were the days…. 20 YEARS… The afghans were our friends, Amitabh Bacchan was not a quizmaster and TV was ruled by Syed Mirza.
Well atleats some things dont change. Rambo still kills people and man with a lot of style. Im old and balding and guess have the courage to put up a poster in my room withtout the fear of admonition. Check out the trailors on youtube.
Fatema haven’t i been saying that for so many films , which were not made by sudhir mishra,
@ Anurag hows the principle shooting coming along with you Dev D? what else is new in your life?
- DA, let me help AK, by answering part of the question. The new thing in Anurag’s life is that he earlier this week had secret dinner “meeting” with one of the biggest stars in Hollywood (well Chattsworth actually but from India - the two cities would seem like one in terms of distance). AK and Teagan had a very fruitful discussion over a few projects. I can’t tell more… my lips are sealed. And I’m turning PFC into a tabloid for one day.
woooo…..common oz…something more than that…….
Sharath,
Not sure why you brought up A R Rehman in this discussion. I think Vishal B. and A R Rehman have both contributed towards the good music of 90’s and today. Your comments on Rehman were not in a good taste. The man loves and lives music without getting into anything else in this world. And no critic is scared of him, I believe they respect him for what he is and he has definately earned it. You need not bring A R Rehman down to raise Vishal. There’s lot of room for everyone with talent.
@Oz - when you say ‘AK and Teagan’ do you mean Teagan Presley (woh gandi filmo ki heroine :d )
eager to know more about this new project :d/
Oz..fella..chammach munh ke aage se sarka rahe ho yaar..poora kaho!!
I wish these loosers (Eesh, GB et. al) would not use PFC to vent against people and exhibit their ignorance about good cinema. Morons! They are here to get their two minutes in an otherwise uneventful, unsung life. KKC is like good wine. It grows on you. But you morons would’nt know what that means!
‘KKC is like good wine. It grows on you.
i became a teetotaller after watching it -/
ok maybe not that bad .. but definitely not ‘good cinema’
Anurag,
Not meaning to doubt your credibility or question your integrity at all. I would be the last person to do that having admired your body of work and all that you stand for.
What I was hinting at was a slight bias FOR the film JUST coz its Sudhir Mishra at the helm. We all know he is a very talented and accomplished director. One of those who still retain that passion for cinema so lost these days. But objectively, aren’t we rating the film here a bit higher than what it deserves? I see (and I might be completely wrong!) the film being praised for all that its not and all that Sudhirji is so capable of.
I felt the need to raise this because it is as or harmful as the treatment meted out to you for (the brilliant) No Smoking. The film was confused with you. Hence I wanted to know if you were confusing the film with Sudhirji.
@sharath on December 11th, 2007 10:11 am
WTF!!!
Jus dont be diff for the sake of it.. AR Rahman’s best work is Dil Se!!!
N Other musicians get work coz Rahman is physically human and refuses most of the movies..
Fatema i m not confusing the film with sudhir.. i just see films from a point which is what it makes me feel.. i did reda the script of KKC and thought it was too long and boring but the film took me by surprise, it was something else.. same thing happened to me with HKA,, the first cut never worked for me but the final cut was fantastic.. it is just what i feel without a bias.. and i chose to ignore the negatives for positives were too many..
My first post here…
I do agree with you in that the movie tried to recapture a whole era that created what we know as Bollywood. I liked the way Mr. Mishra portrayed the Punjabi producer or the Bengali director of those times. You can clearly see the knowledge that the producer has about cinema…. And understand the roots of some nonsensical cinema made by Chopras/ Yash Raj etc films!
But the characterization of Nikhat (who is supposed to be the soul of the movie apart from the Hindi film industry itself) was incomplete. The pain/ suffering or sacrifices through which she sleep-walks initially were supposed to be affecting her later on. But I never saw this in Nikhat. I guess the movies needed someone like Waheedaji to play this role.
On the whole, I loved the movie. And your review:)
Anurag,
How do you come up with these brilliant analyses? I need atleast 2 reefers to even start thinking. Maybe you have some sort of natural hookah wired into your brain. Or do you?
What is the hoopla about? Deciphering Khoya Khoya Chand…
Who is Nikhat? Does at all she exists? Or is there anybody who is represented by the character Zafar?
A heart to heart take of a film which came from heart of Sudhir Mishra, Anurag Kashyap jots down his thoughts…
Guys..I don’t understand, was it the love story that you were all concentrating upon or the insider look at an industry.
@Deepti - The Punjabi Producer was not a moron..he exactly knew where creativity resided. Only, he wanted to put his money where he thought it was best.And the one liners were designed to make him flippant which in reality he was not at all!!
There is a layer there..a brilliant character!
kashyap sir..
how are you sucha a big genius?
i adore you..
you.
yes
you.
i saw this brilliant article on tehelka…
very insightful n unconventional to say the least..makes for an entertaining read…
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main11.asp?filename=hub031905Pirates_of.asp
i second anurag on this article in tehelka…was it not for piracy i wouldn’t have been able to see kurosawa or any of the other european masters…i don’t have the money to buy criterion collection original DVD-s….they come at 35-40 USD a piece….at least because of the piracy industry i am able to procure them at 100 Rs a piece….
I 100% agree with Anurag’s take on piracy…..not everybody can afford to see `original’ good movies. If the choice is between blowing up a minimum of 1K (for 4 people) in multiplexes sitting in the first or second row and sitting at home and watching a DVD (innumerbale people can watch it many times over, I’d rather do that!!!!
@filmibhai, sharath - you guys seem to know your music! Please, suggest some good songs of Vishal bhai (or of A R Rehman for that matter), not the recent hit ones, the unheard gems of 90’s or early 00..And whatever happened to Anu Malik? Just curious..
P.S. Off topic, sorry..
MIGRATION, one of the films in the AIDS series is hosted by IndiaFM. This one was directed by Mira herself. Is there anyway we can watch the rest on PFC? How about BLOOD BROTHERS atleast which was directed by Vishal Bharadwaj? Thanks.
i completely agree with anurag on the tehelka article.
graphic novels come expensive man!!
i’ll be seeing the film tonight….
i agree,50’s was something….cinema of tht era was magnificent and magical…
“The reason for our sorry state is that we not only borrow ideas, but the style, looks, attitude, labels, culture, setting, and milieu of Hollywood
@maya, that’s the most absrd logic anyone has ever applied on pfc….
K J
could you care to elborate as to why that is so?
Thanks
Also, i dont want to make this an attack on AK at all whom I believe to be a brilliant filmmaker in terms of visual storytelling .
But it didnt help that I saw Mullholland drive on TV the night before I saw NS. There were too many parrallels to be coincidental
the reason john was cast in the movie was because he responded positively to the script. but i think he did a surprisingly good job in the end….
and there is a whole genre called theatre of the absurd. mr. kashyap might be as much inspired by lynch as he would be by albert camus, samuel beckett. anyway, difficulty to understand does not alone make a lynch movie. lynch does not make heavy use of metaphors. this is more lewis carrol with a statement….
and NS was very much made for india. do u think any foreign audience would catch the joke on c. rajagopalachari?
Awesome Movie!! One of the best movies of this year.
Saw this movie in a theater with full paid ticket..This movie needs to be appreciated by fans like us by watching it in a cinema hall and not watching a pirated copy…
Pros: Amazing execution, direction,photography,team of actors, transition from 50s to 60s to 70s..
Cons: Soha was a little bit immature to handle such a complex role..she did good nevertheless and her innocence was beautifully captured but I yearned for more!!
KJ
I wasnt referring to the specific reference points like you mentioned , I was instead alluding to the “feel/mood/style/attitude of the movie which seemed fairly derivative . BF was an intrinsically and organically indian feeling movie.
As to why JA was chosen, I think his BO appeal was paramount to generating initial financing for the film , athough KK would have been a better choice imo. Is’nt this exactly what AK is bemoaning in the tehelka article?
regards
hmm read the tehelka article .. its a bit old 2005 . but i do think our films are improving .. definitely ..
interestingly i had the same take on piracy .. and probably even corruption
Anurag,
Thanks for giving my question a straightforward thought. Well, I do see where you are coming from and agree with the response-as-it-makes-one-feel bit. And of course, as we have (or if we haven’t yet we should) agreed that the reception of a piece of art is relative. I accede I was wrong in perceiving a bias where there was not.
I liked what you said about focussing on the negatives. Wish the audiences would be more like that…
To all others,
Isn’t this thread supposed to be about KKC and not NS? :)
‘@filmibhai, sharath - you guys seem to know your music! Please, suggest some good songs of Vishal bhai (or of A R Rehman for that matter), not the recent hit ones, the unheard gems of 90
@maya
simply because no distributor would hv touched it wid a barge pole if there was kk instead of JA in it n isnt it fatal for a 15 crore movie..n frankly IMO it wd nt hv been made much of a difference if KK was there instead of JA..because in the end ppl n reviewers had a problem wid content rather than john or his acting…i for one found john to be quite good within his own limits…
..the problem is though anurag didnt compromise on his content ,the promoters n publicity campaign wid bipasha item song n all..projected as if the movie would be a stylish black thriller..like sanjay gupta’s inspired musafir or zinda …
….n while the movie needs to be lauded for its personal touch,experimental genre..n mindfuck experience…it also must be said that movie remained abstract to the very target audience he had in mind..as anurag himself admits that he overestimated his audience n the film…add to it that movie inspite of its zealous supporters n opponents is neither great nor too bad..its just a decent mind fuck movie..( example of a great mind fuck would be 12 monkeys,matrix or memento…because by the time credits rolled over more of the mind fucked audience got the movie rather than not…which no smoking didnt..)
anurag while has every right to feel bitter..at the scathing personal reviews…coming to a movie which ironically was his personal one…
..but the great thing is that he has learnt some lessons n moved on n so should we his well wishers…
..just reminds me of two different quotes about people trying to experiment in bollywood..
caution:
prem kumar(in knoya khoya chand): zafar, samay se aage jaana asaan hai par use jhelna mushkil…
optimism…
girte hain ghudsawaar hi maidan-e-jung me..woh tifn kya girega jo ghutnon ke bal chale..
1. The worst music in the Indian cinema happened in the 70s and 80s - approximately the period that coincides with RD Burman’s peak. No further comment on RD.
2. 90s mark a technological shift and the emergence of both the music arranger and sound designer. No Vishal Bharadwaj, therefore, without a KJ or Hitesh Sonik. But who cares. Ditto for ARurther Rehman - Srinivasan(?). But who bothers? (One may say that SD Burman had his own - RD Burman or Jaidev. But it is not the same thing)
3. The music of 50s and 60s is not repeatable. The melody - composer’s and singer’s - was in a state of unprecedented preparedness. Reason? There was no technological protection.
4. Current rating of music composers, if we must have one:
a) AR Rehman
b) Shankar Ehsan Loy
c) Vishal Bharadwaj
d) Jairaj Harris
e) Monty
f) Vishal Shekhar
g) Jatin Lalit
Sorry, I missed out on Pritam. I would rate him above Vishal Shekhar.
You missed Himesh Also..:D and I used to like Pritam till I realised ki woh music chor hai.. but yea i still like most of his work.. Ankahee etc.. But bhaisaab chori abhi bhi band nahi kar rahe hai..
Zehreeli Raatein - Ya right.. Kalyug ne Zeher nikaal daala.
@Mini
what about Shantanu Moitra?
I am not excessively worried about what passes of as chori. Pritam has plagiarized unabashedly. When he steals, he steals without intelligence. Thats a major problem with him.
But on a positive note Pritam altered the very idea of the conventional sur with the introduction of his band and especially the vocals of James. James pushes his voice with passion at times challenging the purist conventions. There is no artificiality in his voice like there is in RD Burman’s. It is far more deeply felt and sincere. If a sur is strained in his voice, it is not like Shabbir Kumar’s or Amit Kumar’s or Kumar Sanu’s. It is because he is genuinely pushing a boundary.
As for Shantanu Moitra, he is very lucky to be where he is. As long as there are Sudhir Mishras, Vidhu Vinod Chopras and Pradip Sarkars around, Shantanu’s luck will keep smiling.
Maya let me answer your question, the style , look of the film is definitely indian urban, it,s completely shot here, based here and dressed up here..your vision of india is i guess is the streets of india.. the dharavi is dharavi.. by the way Sight and sound called it the most original film at the rome film festival and not borrowed.. and the man you say i borrow it from , david lynch , he is my only supporter abroad having watched all my films.. i am influenced by him and don’t borrow..
because the character is dressed in suits and normal i would say, not designer and fake, the locations are real in bombay unlike saawariya, they look stylised because of the way they are shot and technique is not foreign or indian.
you need to go a long way in cinema before making statements like that . india is not just poor villages and men on streets, neither is it no where land of saanwariya.. nor your favourite swiss alps of yashraj.
others this is personal between maya and me..so ignore it
The statement:
“and the man you say i borrow it from , david lynch , he is my only supporter abroad having watched all my films..”
We trust you Anurag ji but wouldn’t it have been a lot better if it had come from Lynch himself rather than from you?
The kabab mein haddi statement:
“We trust you Anurag ji but wouldn
@111 KJ - BTW what was the joke on c. rajagopalachari?
No statement on blogs such as these could be one on one. It is duplicitous to say that I am here but I am not here or (please) ignore the fact that I have ever been here or that my private spac is in the public sphere.
So for a normal common-man kinda cinema-goer…are we going to have a dream before going to KKC that it’s an insider story on Bollywood?
That pardoned, wouldn’t one want the audience to like the film they’ve made? Wouldn’t they want to portray the film’s characters more clearly? Why release it if it’s made only for their viewing?
You have described Nikhat’s character better than in the film. You’re a moveimaker. The common man ain’t. Why do you justify the film so? And why does your first line say that we’re going to kill the film? Because you know that it might have a great base, but everything else built on it is so flimsy and ugly that you want to stare far far away.
But congrats on a ’soft-spot’ piece.
@filmibhai 116 - relax bhaiye, why are people so defensive over here?!! I’m always on a lookout for people who are passionate about music and who can give insights into whatever genre/music director/songs/ lyricist they are passionate about. so, I wasn’t sarcastic. Though, I agree on your comments about RD Burman and Rehman to quite an extent.
I am Mega Randhawa. Everything uttered from me or from my Mini is nothing but the truth and only the ultimate truth. So the world should follow Mega’s mini without any questions asked.
End of Mega Randhawa’s Mini statement
@Mini 118 - Are you suggesting that RD Burman was responsible/ contributor to the bad music which came out in 70’s and 80’s? (Though, I dont believe in this but somehow, this is a generally accepted notion that 70’s and 80’s produced worst music till date, you can say this for, may be late 80’s but defnitely not 70’s and early 80’s) Because I take it like this - had it not been for RDB, the 70’s and 80’s music would have been mediocre. RDB is synonym to 70’s and 80’s music, atleast for me. He was a one man show, though I also rate Bappi Da’s work very highly, from that period.
Agree with you on other 2 points.
I’m tempted to put my list as well and this is considering the volume of work too:
1) Jatin Lalit
2) Shanker Ehsaan Loy
3) A R Rahman
4) Vishal Bhardwaj
5) Vishal Shekhar
6) Pritam
7) Mithoon
Well Mithoon is not bad at all! But he is yet to prove himself with a larger body of work.
RD was no doubt talented. Moreover, he was a maveric But his is a kind of halfway house. He was a technology driven kid happening much before the technologial revolution overtook the Indian music industry. I immensely admire the mouth organ theme he has played as a 13 year old kid for Pyaasa.
I am not trying to minimize his importance. But a large body of music he produced was disappointing. In fact a very large body, I should say. His was the recklessness of a person who had the ideas to push the boundaries but little technological support to achieve his vision.
He was a VERY POOR SINGER and, as such, a bad role model. No wonder his voice had a huge influence on the jagran gayaki in the North India, especially Himachal, Punjab and Delhi.
I like the music he composed for Nasir Hussain’s road films. It is invariably young and vibrant. However, we mustn’t forget that he had the advantage of working with the likes of Majrooh (even Jatin Lalit did in Jo Jeeta Wahi Sikandar - and what a youthful song ‘Pehla nasha’ was!) and Gulzar and very briefly even Javed Akhtar, on one hand he had Rafi and Kishore (Laxmikant Pyarelal had to work mostly with Anand Bakshi), on the other. I don’t much care for his musical association with Asha who had already peaked with the songs she did with OP Nayyar. But he did create through Asha’s voice a new and erotic sense of the feminine body - so in some way that was a pathbreaking contribution. Rafi’s death, Kishore’s heart attack (his singing started declining considerably a little before he had the attack) eventually led to a nosedive in the overall quality of his music.
To me SD Burman remains a much greater composer than RD. I am making this comparison very reluctantly.
I would agree with your list. I too like Jatin Lalit except that they are a bit old-fashioned and do not easily fit into the list.
133 - rd burman was bad ?? really ? listen to the songs of Abhimaan .. ALL are classics .. not even one is average .. also apart frm that he has a terrific body of work .. his last film was 1942 love story which also had gr8 music . his sense of melody was superb. i dont understand when u say he was technology driven .. he used a spoon and a glass for that intro music of ‘chura liya hai’ !
right now there is no ‘genius’ music composer except ar rahman .. but he is too technology obsessed for my liking .. i prefer more the raw instruments that were used by the 60’s and 70’s musicians . his tunes are such that often the lyrics of the song get lost .
my favourite contemporary musicians are Strings(band) .. their music is out of the world .. also i like Fuzon(band) but they disbanded after just one gr8 album .
Abhiman - an RD film? Go check your facts first. The music is by SD Burman.
Mini seems to be high on some substance guys…
1942 score is too derivative for my comfort! And nowhere in my comments did I say that RD was bad.
database error :-P i always thought it was rd’s music
so balance now shifts slightly towards sd burman .. now i like him more hehe
‘1942 score is too derivative for my comfort! And nowhere in my comments did I say that RD was bad.’
derivative means ? ..
yes u didnt say he was bad but u hinted towards the same in post#118 :@ .. also i dont agree that he was technology driven .. how can it be when there was no real music making technology then , unlike now when ppl can make music on their music-making softwares
Actually, Jatin Lalit were the ones who carried forward the style of music, RDB was known for (A lot of rich instruments yet melodious!)and thats why they top my list. I did not like their parting work - Fanaa - though. Mithoon is promising but only a few films old, hence at the the bottom of my list.
4 things about your comments on RDB:
I wont agree with your comment that a large body his work was dissapointing. Infact, its the other way round. I would go to an extent of saying that 80% of his work was fabulous ( And this is coming from someone who has listened to 90% of his work)
Your comment about SDB being better than RDB - agreed, but we were talking about music of 70’s and 80’s.
Him being a poor singer - agreed to an extent, but what has that to do with his work as a music composer!
And I dont think you can give the credit of his work to the singers and the lyricist totally. Remember the huge hits he gave while persisting with Shailendra and Anup Ghoshal. Rafi’s death was in early 80’s and he won atleast two filmfare awards after that. Please give the credit where its due. You oversimplify things when you say that Kishore or Gulzar were behind his success. Waise, to each his own..
The best is to look at his filmography and then judge exactly how great his music is. In fact the results are truly dismal.
From filmography, you can know the films he has done. I agree that he has worked in majority of the flop movies of that time or the number of flop movies he has worked in, is far greater than the hits. But even in those flop movies, he has given some gems. I can vouch for that.. or atleast they suit my taste. Sample this - ‘Aao mere paas aao..’ (Kishore, RDB, Kaun? Kaise?)
Hi Anurag, With reference to one of your blogs, You said that all these yashraj and johar camp, what they really do is nothing but mutual masturbation about each others work. Isn’t the same phenomenon applies to you. In this review you completely neglected the short-comings of the movie. This movie is a really brave effort, but a failed one..
I respect people like you, who treat cinema as an art, a way of life but you guys are heading the same way to build pfc camp.
Maya, if you seek to verify facts, you may directly write to David Lynch through his website.
How can you guys even compare SD Burman to RD Burman! :O
Mini, agree with you on most points except that I think that 1942 has beautiful tracks.
Neeraja, its not comparison.. its about personal liking. I consider SDB better than RDB.. Similarly, one can consider AR Rahman better than Vishal Bhardawaj. The point to note, however, is that if out of 100 knowledgable people, 80 agree on a point, it becomes a well accepted fact (though it would still be difficult to convince the remaining 20).
Mini u didnt say what u meant by derivative songs ..
I am Mega Randhawa. Everything uttered from from my Mini is nothing but the truth and only the ultimate truth. So the world should follow Mega
true…its about personal liking, but then what is the point of any such discussion if everything boils down to personal liking at the end?
Its not only about personal liking, there is a lot of ignorance involved. For example more than half of the India thinks of Asha Bhosle as RD Burman’s Asha, the kind of songs he gave her but there is so much more to her. She has sung beautiful melodies with OP Nayyar and SD Burman. So if someone compares Asha to other singers on grounds that all Asha did was ‘Piya tu ab to aaja..’ or ‘O mere sona re..’ it pisses me off.
There may be a lot of people who are not familiar with SD Burman’s body of work (like Filmibhai here thought Abhimaan was RD’s music)
@Anurag’s article in Tehelka- I believe the films mentioned by you are Main Aisa hi hoon(I am Sam) and Shaka laka Boom Boom(Amadeus).
Am I right Anurag??
i love BappiDa .. he rocks !! i read his interview somewhere .. he said that the hip-hop and rap artists in the west were trying to ape his style (of wearing jewellery) .. he said ‘aajkal udhar hamara copy ho raha hai’ .. he is one cute guy ! :d
@ Mini Randhawa — Post # 122
Dont say that Pritam does not know how to Steal… Infact i feel he knws better than anyone else does.. Its just that eventually the CAT CAME OUT OF THE BAG…
So When composers like Anu etc used to lift popular songs from west etc.. We already knew ki “Udaya hua” hai… But with Pritam that was not the case.. Kyonke Bhaisaab Arabic music udate the, Net se Music udate the.. Copy kiya theek hai.. But Boss dont say this is original.. I mean listen to Ya ALI/Zehreeli Raatein etc.. Awarapan– If Pritam has done anything, he has re-presented the music thats it..Who Cares ki Toh Phir Aao is Roxen..Who’s complaining Mustafa is Happy , Pritam is Happy..Iam Happy 2
As i said earlier I like his music but i hate the fact that he claims he didnt lift it.. Bolo Na Udaya hai.. To Udaya hai.
Waisa thoda bahut to sabhi “inspired” rehte hai including rehman and Bharadwaj.
Iam not an RD fan but i guess you have limited exposure to his music.. Again I guess…
you cannot relate his music beyond asha’s work and nasir hussain’s movie.
And we are talking abt his music over here and not his movies.. whether they are hit or flop..So we wont talk abt Sholay Deewar :P
i dont think he ever claimed he is a good singer,, He had a unique voice which was most suitable for some songs..
Also your claim that he was just a tech freak is not completely true..
The difference between the composer’s today and RD is that he used to compose for situations and nowadays they compose and then place the song in the movie..If nowhere then in the credits which i guess is easy..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfrvSuqpC_0
Check the variation and the instrument. Simple and Sweet..I dont think this is work of just a tech freak..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rja031BlWbY
And he was apt only for such songs and i guess he did perfect justice. Music ( yea tech freak watever) essentially in-synch with the train scene.
TRy this relate bollywood music -songs to real life scenario’s.. 90% you would end up humming RD’s composition.
And all musical joints still end with Pyar humein kis mod pe le aya..
AK sir,
Sorry to deviate from the main topic.. Topic Ghuma aur Hum bhi Ghum Gayee
KKC Dekhenge to Decipher karenge..I guess some movies just pull you to the theatre and some simply dont.. Khoya Khoya, Aaja Nachle etc etc not apna type..
Sudhir bhai ko bolo Is Raat ka - Part 2 banaye.. Kuch nahi to remake hi bana daale
I think I am a little late for this. Didn’t get time to watch the movie last week.
After watching the movie I felt that Sudhir has bitten more than he could chew. He has tried to capture the entire industry of 50s-60s in this film. He should have concentrated on one relationship, developed the characters well (he is very good at that, HKA is proof enough) and took the story forward. In order to covering the entire industry of that time he has made the relationships very complex and sometimes you can even see the disconnect (may be editor has done overtime).
The good thing about the movie is, it actually is able to take you to that era and music is first rate. I liked all the songs right from title song to thirak thirak. Hats off to swanand for amazing lyrics.
Ofcourse Neeraja, there is a lot of ignorance involved. But whats your point?
‘How can you guys even compare SD Burman to RD Burman!’
Do you have problem with compariosn per se or you didn’t like the idea that someone like SDB can be compared to RDB? I didn’t get you..
Beacuse in my opinion they are not far off. And the purpose of the discussion is to educate each other so as to remove ignorance. Like I said, everybody has their personal liking, but if 80 people out of 100 knowledgable agree on something, then its becomes a well accepted fact. Ok, for all RDB fans (and others too :-)), checkout ‘Meri aankhon mein zara jhaanko to..’ (RDB, Asha, Andar Bahar)
Akeyla - I fully agree on your statement @ 136
I do not want to dilute the topic so not commenting any further. If Mini wants to get a proper reply on Mr Rahul Dev Burman’s composing and singing skills ( if it is a genuine desire to learn and not idiotic views carried forward like in these various posts ), it is recommended to contact on my email id - kcpingle at gmail dot com
Maybe she can come as a better person and start commenting with sense in future, on PFC and internet general
KCP
Hi Anurag,
I loved Sudhir’s HKA and your Black Friday..have to see No Smoking.
Came across an article in the Hindu where Shyam Benegal praised you
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2007121451170100.htm&date=2007/12/14/&prd=fr&
Would like your thoughts on the ability to make a film how you see it the next time
Cheers
Ram
Speaking about AR Rahman nobody has noticed this fact.He has till now worked with only big banners and technically excellant directors like ManiRathnam,Shanker,RGV who picturises his songs beautifully.Today music’s success largely depends on
visual appeal.In fact I consider him to be a clever music director who chooses his projects carefully.Even if he does offbeat films he goes for brand names like Shyam Benegal or Deepa Mehta.His business acumen u can understand from his working with Subhash Ghai who incidently is one of the most mediocre directors but overhyped because AR Rahman knows that he can make commercially successful films. He is a good music director with realy good technical wizardy and good orchestration capabilities but his music lacks the melody of RDBurman,Jatin Lalit,Illayaraja,Vishal and is the greatest example of media manipulation where people think that saying something against what is written in media makes u
unintelligent.
@ sharath
sorry man .. from the above post i got one thing clear .. u dont know much abt A R Rahman !!!
read his filmography in IMDB and u will see that more than 50 % of the directors that he has worked with are less than mediocre. i hope u have included tamil and telugu films cause tats where the majority of his work is!!
and talkin abt big banners .. he is undoubtedly th best known music director in india and with this high rate of hits !!!he has every ryt to be the costliest tooo … so obviously only big banners can afford him!!!
u can say that he “lacks the melody of RDBurman,Jatin Lalit,Illayaraja,Vishal” tats ur view so i have no problem with it even if i dont accept even 1% of what u said!! u are free to express what u perceive of his music .. but dont manipulate the facts just to show that “u r making a point”!!!
Dear George Sivaji and AzhagiyaTamizhMagan are small budget films?…if 24 hours u are bombarded with songs of superstar films howmuchever mediocre they are.u start liking it..That is power of media..Those who has media with u is the winner in case of music also..ARRehaman has it and poor audience just don’t realize that..
my dearest Sharath ;)
i guess u need to read my earlier post well enuf ..
here i will copy n paste it for u
“and talkin abt big banners .. he is undoubtedly th best known music director in india and with this high rate of hits !!!he has every ryt to be the costliest tooo
AR Rahman was a nobody and no one in the North had heard of him when I wld go around telling everyone to listen to him , distributing audio cassettes of his tamil/telugu songs in 1992.
Ab 15 saal kay baad if you say he works only with Big Shots, abay he has worked HARD to get here.
Now Aamir re-makes Ghajini WITHOUT Harris Jayaraj,
the original songs by him are so wonderful
[ I mean in the Pop genre ] but he want ARR not HJ, why?
Coz no one in the North has heard about Harris Jayaraj……another 15 years and you will be cribbing abt Harirs ….
Hai Allah!! Why do we envy success so much??
actually i agree with sharath .. there is an aura around ar rahman .. his compositions lack melody and often his tunes are such tht they end up mangling the lyrics .
sd/rd burman , salil chaudhary , hemant kumar , naushad, op nayyar were greats whose tunes were such that there was a natural flow of lyrics thus creating a good melody … ar rahman lacks the same .
but rahman has a great talent of producing unexpected sounds and beats and is very versatile .. not to mention his tremendous knowledge of music
media makes hits .. eg dard-e-disco , kkc title track .. both are avg songs (music wise)
erm, A R Rahman does not follow same style Mukhda-Antara-Mukhda… like others did and do. So you is not going get melody of RD Burman - etc.
You will get A R Rahman and that is what you should be looking/keeping your ear open for that. So do not look for RD Burman/etc kinda ‘melody’ in A R Rahman. Sure compare their works but do not look for something which you not going to get… don’t look for a samaso in a gulab-jamun!
And do listen to Lagaan or Meenaxi, you will find some classic/rich tunes in those soundtracks. In fact, listen to all of his soundtracks, and you will know that A R Rahman knows what melody is like no other musicians do and no current musicians can achieve that superiority.
He has his own trademark. He has his own style. He is a legend. He is A R Rahman.
‘don
@Amit
Yeah I think SDB should not be compared to RDB because (in my opinion) he has given better music and was more versatile (Note: I am not saying that versatility is the only measure of talent)
Not that I don’t like RDB’s music, he was good but nowhere close to his father.
Lets put it this way : I listen to RDB’s music while studying/working but I can’t do the same with SDB’s music because I have to sit down and listen to it with all my attention :) For me, that’s the difference between their music :)
anyway as you say, in this case (I am assuming that you know their work fairly well), its a matter of personal opinion.
@HG
“don
Anurag, I posted my comments on KKC on Sudhir’s thread. I also saw the positives way over the negatives and found the experience of seeing it rewarding. It’s kind of heartbreaking that movies that are far more flawed than this get much greater audiences and more forgiveness, too.
Can you please post on PFC about what is said at next week’s “archive of the city” event with Ranjani Mazumdar, if you find it at all thought-provoking? I have her book and found it challenging, to say the least.
Sharath
where did you dissapear man?? I’m rooting for you here.
I find Vishal-Shekhar much more interesting than Rahman.
Sorry I was away on a weekend workshop to Brussels and could not get back. Theres a lot going on here about RDB and ARR.
1} I agree with Honhar Gunda that AR Rehman has quite corageously deviated from the Antara-Mukhra format of the conventional Hindi film song. His “Awaara Bhanware”, for whatever it is worth, is quite a ‘break’ - the song is primarily a Mukhra and the antara is barely a stanza comprising 4 lines.
2) Having said that, I wish to draw your attention to SD Burman’s pathbreaking “Phoolon ke rang se” from Dev Anand’s “Prem Pujari”. You hold your breath in disbelief as SDB keeps on pushing the antara till the song is well-nigh over.
3) This convention had its origin in Khemchand Prakash’s “Ayegaa Aanewala” from Mahal.
4) People who speak about ARR’s lack of melody, I am afraid I have to sound harsh and even arrogant, do not know what melody is. His melodies are more complex than those whose work is being extolled here by the enthusiasts.
5) We tend to ignore - the saddest part of our music appreciation in the Indian cinema - the seminal contribution of the South Indian composers from Ghantasala to harris Jairaj. It is a great pity.
6) Nobody is saying RDB is not upto the mark. But what is he compared to SDB?
7) I agree with Kavita about Harris Jairaj. The boy is a prodigiously talented.
8) George is right about the small-time filmmakers ARR has worked with. The number is staggeringly large.
9) Those who think that Shantanu Moitra’s music is better than ARR’s need some serious and urgent help.
Hmmm.. True Neeraja, I also find SDB better than RDB but I think they can be compared. For me, they are not far off.