Dev.D- genesis
It was during the FIFA world cup 2006. I was at the Mariott watching a match, Abhay was with me. The match wasn’t happening. He told me he had an idea, a story. I said ,”ok tell me”. He narrated me a story of a stripper in a L A strip club and a guy who is attracted to her. The guy had a back story, an unrealised love story. After he narrated the whole story, he asked me guess what is it. I couldn’t. He then told me it is Devdas. I looked at him. I never thought before that moment, that Devdas could be retold like that. That was where Dev.D was born.
Now me and abhay go way back. Much before he wanted to be an actor. Vikramaditya Motwane my co-writer on dev.d has been abhay’s best friend since they were in school, probably 8 or 9 years old. Vikram i met in 1994 but really got to know him in 1999 when i was working on water and he was assisting deepa. We spent some great time together in Varanasi, doped out rebelling and generaly happy. Water wasn’t to be made that year, but we stuck with each other. I went on to make my first movie Paanch that very year and Vikram was the director of songs and also the sound designer of the movie. I met abhay through him. At that time I had a general aversin to people from film families. Abhay was refreshingly different. He stayed on his own, he sketched( Abhay before he became an actor , did some story boards for the blast scenes of Black Friday for me), he would make cartoons on the T-shirts and sell them in Goa. He was a hippy born in a film family, Boston educated, sketching, drawing, artist. We hung out. I introduced him to sanjay routray who introduced him to imtiaz ali and an actor was born. The actor who I think is the indian equivalent of an early Johnny Depp. I never thought he had even a remote chance as an actor. He always told me that,” you don’t think i can have a career.” and because i didn’t wan’t to hurt him, i would lie but i believed that. Today I eat my words. After “socha na tha” Imtiaz told him that how will he make a career or even expects to survive without wanting to sing and dance and he smiled, he didn’t care. same Imtiaz after “oye lucky…” told him that you have made a place for yourself and there is no way they can throw you out. Abhay was right, we were wrong. After I saw Ek Chaalis , and i talked about it here on PFC i really wanted to work with him. Before that I would humor him and say lets do something but let the right script come my way. Well, he showed me the way. And today I feel very happy when Zoya Akhtar tells me, I always liked him, Farhan said , he is very exciting and even Nikhil advani goes on raving about him.
Well dev.d was conceived but nobody really wanted to do it. They were scared and No Smoking put the fear of devil in them,until i met Vikas Behl. I actually met him to pitch him Aamir but ended up pitching both and he was excited. Amit Trivedi was someone Shilpa Rao recommended to me. I remembered her from the the time she was a kid and she came to my house to meet me with her mother. She was participating in some talent show. Much later when i was doing no smoking, i met her and told her to make me meet a new exciting voice on the music scene. Does not matter if he hasn’t done a thing, but he has to have his own voice. Two days later she brought Amit trivedi. I had my doubts on him. Largely because of his name. He did not sound like a musician. I heard his sample music and that was brilliant. I did not have a script at that time. I gave him a situation based on what Vikram told me , he was doing with the script and asked him to come up with a song. This was seven months before i met vikas and then i forgot about it. After Vikas liked what i told him i wanted to do with devdas, amit called me one day and he said he has arrived at a song. I took vikas with me and went there. He played “duniya” to me. Was I blown!!!! and then he said it took him six songs to arrive at Duniya. I said can i hear those six. And he played them. Six bloody brilliant songs, i told him i will take them all. They are all in the movie. That is the moment that dev.d became a musical.
I went back to the script and rewrote it. and what came out was brilliant, brilliant in terms of temptation, it made me greedy, i wanted more music, more songs to make it feel complete. Emotional Atyachar followed and its rock version and more. The film changed, music changed the film, Amit trivedi changed the film. The essence, the soul remained but the way it is told. The way it unfolded, the way i looked at it changed.
And that was just few days before we were going on the shoot. Something I was yet to figure out. When you make a film like Dev.d , one is dealing with hell of a lot, perceived indian morality being the mother of them all. one has to practice some kind of self censorship without killing the soul of the movie. My dev is not just an alcoholic, he is a today’s kid, he goes beyond alcohol, he is a coke-head, he experiments with other drugs too, but is it necessary to show it. i wanted a way out. I wanted to figure out a way where without showing the drug abuse and a lot of drugs we could somehow portray that. I did not know the way out. Our shooting began. first schedule in london, again talked about on PFC. I called Danny Boyle. A social call because I was in london, because i would often meet him , infact hosted him once when he was in bombay. Danny invited us to lunch. Me , abhay and Rajeev Ravi my camera man went. A small place in Soho where apparently a lot of film people hang out. We got talking about his post on Slumdog and my Dev.d. I told him what i wanted to do, and he told me about how he shot slum dog on SI-2K and he also told me about a still camera, a nikon DS-3 or something that was developed for war photographers that can shoot up to 11 frames per second. He shared the entire technology(now public knowledge courtesy American cinematographer) that he pushed for, got developed and used for SDM. He gave us the details for where to get that camera from. He got them from germany or holland. I immediately ordered for it, got it while we were shooting in Punjab and did a test shoot on it, saw the results and decided to go ahead with it. All the trippy shots you see in the promos after abhay throws the glass at the wall was shot on that camera, thanks to Danny Boyle.
Well rest later.
thank you anurag sir…its exciting to know the story behind the making of each movie…abhay deol really is abhay (unafraid) which also shows in the name of his prod house (Forbidden Films)…indian movies r going in right direction…exciting years 2 come…
Plz sir let us know when the music is releasing…eagerly waiting for music from amit trivedi…
really eager to watch dev.d.
keep rocking..
abhay is the only young actor who is really fearless with his creativity.& i hope rajiv ravi had done a superb job in dev d also? & i just wanna to know whatz da difference of dev d & why dev d?
anurag sir, any plans on special advance screenings of this movie, in film festivals and elsewhere?
(keeping my fingers crossed that the censor board doesn’t throw any tantrums this time)
Its amazing how a little observation turns into a movie idea and how things eventually fall into place. Waiting for this, like so many others.
man i hav started consider u as my idol these daz …poster of dev d are alchoholic..can wait much fr music relese…
Your post’s are a breath of fresh air here. :D Keep posting regularly.
Anurag Ji, whatever I got from this post, you have changed the set up and premise of Devdas and made it in to a modern story…but do you think its enough to make a good film…”jigar ka khoon bhi kuchh chahiye asar ke liye…” I hope “Dev D.” is is not dud no 2 after “No smoking”..I wish Dev D. will give you all the success which you truly deserve…
music release on 10th january
Anurag, eagerly waiting for the rest..! Give some more interesting anecdotes, technical details, about the choice of other actors, etc. Expecting atleast 5 more posts on Dev.D from you! Cheers!!!
Any more details or on-set photos shooting with the SI-2K?
Ari Presler
CEO/Founder
Silicon Imaging
www.si-2k.com
abhay paaji rox
All the best
great wait’n for this movie….
Here is the link of brand new Promo of DEV.D…
Emotional Attyachar(Dev D)…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QykJg4aDO-c
Pretty much offtopic but, this post needs some formatting.. difficult to ready with no proper line breaks between paragraphs..
btw looking forward to the music release, promos had some good stuff.. I really hope the movie breaks the fear of no smoking…
Cheers,
Deep
Dev D is gonna be the FIRST Hindi film album I’ll be buying in about 7 years maybe
Hey Anurag, seem to have lost ur number again…tried to send an email…but don’t know if u got it…anyways we’ve got 55000 views for the first promo of dev d…it has a surreal unexpected feel to it…putting up ‘emotional atyachar’ tomorrow…alo i guess it ur birthday somewhere around the corner…happy birthday dude if its true…
Cheers
Faridoon
@ Anurag
Very interesting to know the genesis of Dev-d.My admiration for Abhay Deol keeps increasing day by day.Looking forward to reading more about the movie.And yes eagerly awaiting the music & the movie.
No wonder the promos are looking soooo good… Superb, looking forward to the films release too.
Hi!
Dev D!!!!! The name sounds so interesting and to top it you have Abhay Deol playing the lead. None of his movies has failed to impress me! Another factor that works for the movie is UTV! Rest assured, I have utmost faith that the movie will be fairly screened all over. Advance congratulations for the success of your movie!
I’m 16… and technically… i ain’t got much idea about film making… but i was just wondering how do they do the slow…psychedelic…dizzy shots… and well i got it… thanks…
I’m waiting for this film like fucking hell… the only Hindi movie i think i had been waiting for eagerly so much after No Smoking
This is probably the film I am most eager to see in 2009! It’s going to set the tone for all the other films to come and it has been in my list of must-see since IFFLA this past April. What a story, what a great new way to tell a classic tale. Thank goodness for Abhay Deol and the boring FIFA match!
It’ll be wonderful to view the film in Delhi, instead of some theater here in US, assuming it is still slated to release on January 9th?
Thanks Mr. Kashyap, for always pushing the envelope!
can i just know the release date?
cos i thought it was 9 jan, but u say music’s coming out on 10th. so, when’s the release?
also, can i please have your mail id mr. kashyap.
i am not a writer or anything close, but just have an idea.
@ Menschenkenner
The movie is scheduled for release on Feb 6th
Dear Anurag Sir
No offense, and since I assume you are a level-headed man by the manner in which you took No Smoking’s criticism, I am sure you wouldn’t take any. But…
What’s with the self-important, pompous, vain displays? Why do you have to share all this unimportant, insignificant ‘knowledge’ with us? I mean, yes, all your fanboys will latch upto it, and think they have been gifted the secret of nirvana, but surely, you do realise that this is more blind worship than careful thinking, right? Or do you do this just to please your vanity? Just to get some people to tell you that you are their God?
Why don’t you let the film release? Why don’t you let the film talk for itself? If its good, all kudos to you, applause, and touch your feet. If its bad, all the otherwises. But why this unpaid for publicity blitz? I mean, sure, its a nice barter setup you guys have here, but why misuse it to the extent that it becomes abuse?
And to all the fanboys : Whats with the idol thing mates? Kaul and Shahani have been upto it for years men. Surely, you have gotten a more watchful approach to film watching than this. Right? The guy’s best film is Last Train to Mahakali. You heard of it? No? You worship him for making Paanch, which strangely enough, none of us have even watched yet. Or for Black Friday, which reduces the filmic medium to the most regressive form of literature, even chapters. Or No Smoking? That confused rigmarole.
Let the guy breath, and guy, let the guys breath. Tell me, when the film is releasing. I’ll be there.
Man, am I turning into a fanboy (yours I mean)!
@mouth watering Sirji, and eagrly waiting for the music release. And i am sure you must have noticed the general complaints about the Dev.D site being slow, hope your team is taking care of that two and i loved two of the wallpapers.
1. Saali khusi :-)
2. Emotional atyaachar
Your articles on your films and films in general here… remind me of a quote by Godard:-
“Daney was one of the last to do that work. He described the actual thing, you’d want to go or not, in any case you’d make your judgment based on the evidence. An entire paragraph of his article on L’Amant is devoted to a lace-up boot. You understand what takes place in the film. Likewise, when Rivette spoke about the tracking shot in Kapo, he described it straightforwardly, like Thucydides describing the Peloponnesian War. That dimension has been lost because we no longer see the film. You tell me it’s good. You’ll have to show me. I don’t believe you a priori. What you say is interesting. Maybe you’re even more interesting than the film.”
Thanks Anurag for an interesting piece!
Anuj, chill bro! what’s vain and pompous about a talented director blogging about interesting nuggets of info about his forthcoming movie? And Anurag talking about a mostly unheard of cinematographic technique (unheard of to a majority of movie watchers) is “insignificant” knowledge? Grow up man and appreciate a director’s effort to showcase new age Indian cinema to a larger audience instead of accusing him of showboating. As for fanboyism and idolising, you need a reality check! Go check out the David Fincher fanatic blog or the millions of Christopher Nolan fan sites out there!
@ yossarian03
I do agree with Anuj, because I believe in the age old tradition of evidence in form of criticism. And no fan-boy talking about their supposed love and filmmakers proclaiming their love either
Since there is no ‘school of thought’ where cinephiles, criticism or filmmakers are born here with the idea of history and tradition of the medium. Anything and everything is like a great boon. So…if you talk about David Fincher blog, go check the movies he made that is uniquely ‘cinema’ or about Nolan go check again.
What is the good use of an unheard a cinematographic technique when the implications are still the same? So what good a new jimmy-jib imported from Mars do if all the industry does is shoot in the same manner like every Tom, Dick and Harry. And if he has done something different let’s wait for the evidence of the film and then judge.
Received wisdom is something that kills of any form of criticism, and our own ideas to question.
Beside which new age Indian cinema are you talking about, because cinema itself is not being reinvented here, so lets not be confused, are we talking about the ontological values of cinema or just the narrative,acting, so on so forth.
Yossarain03
“what’s vain and pompous about a talented director blogging about interesting nuggets of info about his forthcoming movie?”
Interesting nuggets? Those are pieces of self-serving praises of his entire crew right there. That’s promotion, blatant and obvious. Those are not interesting nuggets about how the idea developed into a final film, or about how the genesis of an idea takes place. Its basically information about how his superlatively talented team developed THAT idea, which is fair enough, but that judgement is not the filmmaker’s task, is it? It’s his audience’s, isn’t it? Here, the ‘team’ takes more important than the ‘idea’ itself, and the maker becomes more significant than the film. Interesting nuggets.
“And Anurag talking about a mostly unheard of cinematographic technique (unheard of to a majority of movie watchers) is “insignificant” knowledge?”
Sure. He did talk about it, didn’t he? In an elaborate detailed manner. In a brilliant vivid description. In 4 lines. Even here, the intention of his writing is to inform us about the discovery of the technique through his meeting with Boyle. Its not about the technique itself. But this is being too critical, and I will attribute Anurag Sir for the info he provided us. Now that that’s cleared, next time, tell us about the technique in a detailed manner, and about how 11 frames per second enhanced your film. Write a post about that. Or maybe, let us just watch it, eh? Or should I read it in the American Cinematographer?
“a director’s effort to showcase new age Indian cinema to a larger audience instead of accusing him of showboating”
New Age? Indian? Cinema?
Clearly, neither you, nor I have seen Dev D. Out of the question. No Smoking was not new age Indian Cinema, and if it was, that’s hardly the direction we are looking at, right? So basically, you base your reading of Mr.Kashyap’s intentions as a filmmaker on ONE SINGLE FILM? – Black Friday? – No? Really? Haha…
BEAT.
Really?
“Go check out the David Fincher fanatic blog or the millions of Christopher Nolan fan sites out there!”
Go check out the films they have made first. While Anurag Kashyap is definitely a talented writer – what with his contributions to various TV shows and Satya – as a director, well.
Besides, do avoid these invalid comparisons and superfluous name-throwing exercise. Because if its reasonable to compare the state of film boards(which it isn’t, but on your incitation), its also fair to compare the state of our cinema with others, right?
You. Chill.
anuj did u see RNBDJ:)
Anuj, i guess you dont get the bigger picture of what i was implying.
“Interesting nuggets? Those are pieces of self-serving praises of his entire crew right there. That’s promotion, blatant and obvious”
You talk as though he owns the crew – his crew here is Abhay Deol (we dont need to discuss his acting credentials here, suffice to say he is better than most people out there today), Amit Trivedi (a talented music director) and Rajeev Ravi (you can pick on a lot of things about No smoking, but one thing that stood out is the cinematography). As for promotion, when did PFC become a mass reader website like Rediff for promotion to have any effect? Manorama SFU would have been a much bigger hit had it really been “promoted” well.
“Sure. He did talk about it, didn’t he? In an elaborate detailed manner. In a brilliant vivid description. In 4 lines” – Yeah, what do you expect? Anurag and Rajeev bring out a 20 page manual on how to employ a lesser used cinematographic technique to budding directors? i am sure they have better things to do.
“Clearly, neither you, nor I have seen Dev D. Out of the question. No Smoking was not new age Indian Cinema, and if it was, that’s hardly the direction we are looking at, right?” – Clearly, you havent understood what i meant by New Age Cinema – i am not talking about Dev D and No smoking or any particular movie here – i am talking collectively about the small/medium budget movies that have come out in the last 2 years from talented directors with little support from the established cine people. People like Anurag act as a bridge for such people, and he doesnt just showcase his own movie.he has written enough in support of other movies.
And yeah, i am chilling with a beer on a sunday afternoon. so, chill again.
@Anuj and @Nitesh :-
Can you take US “Fanboys” out of the equation over here for a while and tell us Whats wrong with the blatant publicity of a movie if that is what AK is trying to do.And what other way should guys like these go about publicizing their movies when you have rigged critics (read suckers) like Khalid Mohammeds sitting in their armchairs giving the most unconvincing 3 star reviews to films made by Dynasty run Filmhouses in the Nation’s leading dailies which obviously caters to millions of your prospective viewers and not even caring to write a 300 word movie review of Dasvidaniya.(Case in point Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi review on HT, god only knows what the freaking bugger was trying to write but i dont want to digress).
Or should Mr AK put in an glitzy item number song and beg the actors, both of the current and a foregone generation to dance in it the pretext of the “CELEBRATION OF INDIAN CINEMA”.(WTF)
Or do you want AK to go about making a musical about one of the most common teen fantasies(i.e. Being a lead singer in a Rock Band),star in it himself and publicize it as the gist of the Pink Floyd classic ‘TIme’ on TV’s leading song channels and their gazillion chat shows.
My friends if this genuine prostituting of yourself in front of TV to make your movie work is acceptable publicity then why cant you accept this blog as the other way of it.
I guess what you guys have a grudge over is how in a seemingly blindfolded manner are we, the so called ‘FANBOYS’ are lapping every word of AK.Well that is hardly AK’s fault,is it.
YOu dont have to hang the guy just because he wrote about what camera he’s tried and used in his movie.And dont you think a if a ‘Talented WRITER’ (to which you admit that AK is) had to publicize his movie through a blog he would atleast format his blogs with suitable indentations as has been pointed out in one of the comments above.
And the part of the Fanboys that you dont understand is that we are not licking it up to AK, we are licking it up to the brave new face of Indian Cinema which is willing to challenge the staus quo and be commercially viable at the same time.We are unquestionably licking up to the new Idea’s which are being thrown up and being made into wonderful thoughful movies.AK just happens to be one of the hundreds of metaphor for this which are budding up.We are licking up the idea of spawning even more AK’s.
And Dear Mr Anuj, well if you think Black Friday and No smoking was not good cinema you can go FUCK YOURSELF.
@Nitesh
Ontology – The branch of metaphysics that studies the nature of existence or being as such.
So what exactly are the ‘ontological values’ of cinema?
new Dev D trailer (song-emotional atyachar) out on indiafm…..could not find it on the official website….
I’m glad the idea conceptualized…the promos look really cool and classy….
very interestin..very… ye sab bakar to theek hai par picchli baar jaise humara aur Kumar mangat ka chu**** kaata tha waisa mat karna..idea ki to ma behen ek kar di thi No Smoking mein.. is baar kuch movie bana rakhi ho shayad. not just a mish mash of your “influences” and one liners.I really hope its better than No smoking.
wow…wonderful article….but rest for later??? please do it fast ..waiting here….and write about how u wrote the script also…like what all ideas were floating in your mind…or the visual images u saw…maybe after the movie releases… and what is bombay velvet about??is it something like blue velvet??
@nitish
please answer that ontology thing navdeep asked…sort of confusing….you think too much man…saw your blog..why don’t you go out and make movies when u saw so many movies and know so much about movies…why end up becoming a movie scholar or something and being cynical about everything… i actually liked what all anurag wrote in his blog…and your cynicism is caulfeld-like ??? haha… read that part where caulfeld meets that “intellectual guy”, whose father is a psychonalyst, in the bar. you are more like him…and by the way caulfeld hates movies i think…;)
@nitish
Give the link for your blog please. (mad about guys named caulfield…:))
oye mil gaya…khaali naam pe click karne se khul ja raha hai…:)
Finally saw the Dev D song trailor. I love the song “Emotional Atyaachar”.
Man, Amit Trivedi gave such a fantastic score in Aamir. I hope its equally good over here.
.
I find the back story interesting. Seems like a debate raging over here but haven’t got a chance to read it. Office mein vaat hain babu.
i rather like to see No smoking 100 times a dya than see movie which has song luyrics like “dance pa chance kar le”
sorry no thanks
Movie Fan
“anuj did u see RNBDJ:)”
Yes I did. I loved the first fifty minutes as well. Do you want to discuss it, or did you just use the film as a symbol of the ‘bad’ films that I watch? Because if its about using films as symbols, then I also watched, recently-:
a) Apu Trilogy
b) The Day of the Jackal
c) Oye Lucky Lucky Oye
d) La Jetee
e) Letters From an Unknown Woman
f) La Plaisir
g) A Man Escaped
h) Taare Zameen Par
i) The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting
to represent, what you, my sir, would deem ‘good’. Anything else?
Yossarain
1) About his owning the crew or vice-versa, we have conveniently chosen to veer the discussion into meaninglessness. The argumentation is hardly dialectic, and you seem hardly enthused in building/debating upon my previous point, i.e when the creator assumes a more significant position than the creation, and the team becomes more important than the film. Instead, you move on a tangent, clearly redundant point, which holds no relevance in this discussion. Why have you begun discussing the credentials of the team members? Did I ever initiate a discussion on them? How can we comment on their work before the film releases? We were talking about the blog post preferring execution over an idea. Can we thus, please, do more than mere hoodwinking and backslapping here?
2) “As for promotion, when did PFC become a mass reader website like Rediff for promotion to have any effect? ”
“People like Anurag act as a bridge for such people, and he doesnt just showcase his own movie.he has written enough in support of other movies.”
Only one of the two can be true, isn’t it? If PFC is not a mass dispersion tool, and promotion here does not have any effect, then Anurag acting as a bridge would not have much too, agreed? Carrying this point forward, it should also raise another question – Who does he act as a bridge between? The filmmakers and a site like PFC? Which according to you, does not have much of an effect except on a small group of self-proclaimed cinefans. His promotion is a failure then? If, on the other hand, however, we agree that the promotion on PFC DOES have an effect, and is relevant in the context of it being consequential in terms of evoking popular interest, then again, that strengthens my claim, and in that scenario, he should let others write about his film(not the crew’s work on it, atleast not before the film’s released), and not write about the film himself. Ever noticed how that is never the trend?
“Manorama SFU would have been a much bigger hit had it really been “promoted” well.”
So?
“Clearly, you havent understood what i meant by New Age Cinema ”
A cinematic movement is a collective guided by the motivation of a cohesive unit of filmmakers to take cinema as an art form towards a more refined, superior, and more importantly, common ideological, cultural and aesthetic goal. A set of filmmakers who lie scattered without an ideological commonality do not make a cinematic movement. Even more essentially, a cinematic movement is highly consequential in terms of its impact on both a society’s cultural, political and spiritual perspectives. If not that, the movement is a failure. A cinematic movement, thirdly, exists not in a vacuum, or in a niche, but within a popular realm, while criticising it.
Assuming you talk of the New-Age Cinema as a cinematic movement, what are the defining coherent set of goals our ‘New-Age’ filmmakers have set for us? Do they share anything in common or in tandem with each other, other than the fact(s), that they are-:
a) Low-Budget
b) Without major stars
c) Stimulate faux ‘realism’, ‘grit’,'edginess’.
Are there any aesthetic or ideological objectives of this movement, or is it merely a version of the mainstream? Also, what impact does this new-age cinema hold over the mass tastes, or is it content to exist on a site? Is the spread of knowledge its purpose or containment of it? The latter, seems, ruefully, the more valid option.
For a cinematic movement to be effective, it needs to expand, and not contract. Besides, exactly, in which direction is it developing cinematic form? Are we looking at new narrative forms, or are we looking at developing a new form using editing patterns? What and where is the growth if its indeed a cinematic movement, as you so proudly emphasise?
“Yeah, what do you expect? Anurag and Rajeev bring out a 20 page manual on how to employ a lesser used cinematographic technique to budding directors? i am sure they have better things to do.”
Obviously, he is too occupied explaining how Abhay Deol was a Bohemian who used to sketch on T-Shirts and sell them in Goa, to have any time on elaborating on a new cinematic technological idiom. He has time for that. Sure enough, the readers are satisfied with the meagre trivial knowledge he passes on, and we are more interested in how they were watching a football match when they developed the idea. Its, by its very conception, a more relevant cinematic topic. Isn’t it?
In the future, for any conducive and eventually useful discussion to take place, take care to not go off on needless tangents. Thanks.
“And yeah, i am chilling with a beer on a sunday afternoon. so, chill again.”
That was the one thing I was sure you would be doing.
@anuj, you have a choice not to read. its his blog, he may write whatever f’ing he wishes to and people like you and me have the freedom to read or not. its like you visiting a movie’s website and then bitching about it being a platform for self praise.
“Are there any aesthetic or ideological objectives of this movement, or is it merely a version of the mainstream? Also, what impact does this new-age cinema hold over the mass tastes, or is it content to exist on a site? Is the spread of knowledge its purpose or containment of it? The latter, seems, ruefully, the more valid option. ”
Anuj let me tell u something here, no new movement starts off with clear cut objectives and statements. And this is true of any movement be it the European New Wave or the American Indie film movement or the 70’s Beatnik Generation movies.
Basically most of these movements start off with a higher purpose, they are not satisfied with existing things, and want to make a difference. But their objectives are not clear cut. And thats fine, but give them space to grow, give them space to learn. No we dont want to do that, we want them to run even before they learn how to walk. Yeah sitting on my arse, even i can raise a 1000 questions, but its when you are actually hands on, actually doing the work, that you understand things as is.
As the movement grows along, as it matures, it will find its ideas, its objectives becomming more concrete. Growth does not happen instantly, it takes time, it needs groundwork, it needs a commitment to keep going. And basically it needs support.
If we are serious about letting an alternative cinema movement grow, then back it, support it, give it space, give it time. The people who make the movies know better than you and me, it is for them to define their objectives and way of reaching out.
D.A
“like Khalid Mohammeds sitting in their armchairs giving the most unconvincing 3 star reviews to films made by Dynasty run Filmhouses in the Nation’s leading dailies ”
But pray, do tell me sir, how does a critic influence the box office success/failure of a film? Because if I assume that your argument is to state that a critic’s review influences millions of prospective film watchers, then Black Friday should have been the biggest hit of our times with the reviews it got, no? You make it seem as if the critics bear a personal vendetta against all the ’small’, ‘New-Age’ films, and have a tendency to support the big-budget studio systems. First, its simply false. Except Mr.Taran Adarsh, we have no example of the above. Every critic, howsoever inclined towards disguising the story of the film as his review, and uninformed, atleast gives appropriate star ratings. Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi, for instance, has been given a maximum of 2 stars in various publications. The argument is invalid, and cries foul where there is none.
“Or should Mr AK put in an glitzy item number song ”
He already did that. Besides the point.
“beg the actors, both of the current and a foregone generation to dance in it the pretext of the “CELEBRATION OF INDIAN CINEMA”.(”
Ah, now why are we functioning in relative greatness here? I never said Farah Khan makes cinema that sends a chill down my spine by its greatness, did I? But as I see it, it really should not be of no apparant outcome, as to the films Mr Kashyap or any of the new-age filmmakers make, right? Why has this been reduced to a ‘us vs. them’ debate? They are the conformists, and we are the rebels. Sounds fancy, but each film should survive on its own merit, and its own intrinsic qualities, instead of pointing at a film and saying, ‘Look, atleast, I am better than that.’. And I am not talking about commerce here, I am talking about the quality of the film.
“My friends if this genuine prostituting of yourself in front of TV to make your movie work is acceptable publicity then why cant you accept this blog as the other way of it”
Right, so we DO accept it as another form of that?
“so called ‘FANBOYS’ are lapping every word of AK.Well that is hardly AK’s fault,is it.”
I never said it is his fault. Infact, I quite pointed the otherwise. Let the guy breath, remember?
“not licking it up to AK, we are licking it up to the brave new face of Indian Cinema ”
First, whats with the so many ‘we’s’? Brave new face of Indian cinema? Sounds nice, but as I said earlier, there is more to a cinematic movement than questioning the authority of commerce, or big studios. The more important question is : WHY are you questioning that authority?
“And Dear Mr Anuj, well if you think Black Friday and No smoking was not good cinema you can go FUCK YOURSELF.”
Now thats a really healthy argument in favour of a film.
Semi-Santusht
About Caulfield, since that particular article is mine(just that one article), his cynicism is only a symbol, its not meant to merit a discussion on how rightly, or wrongly placed it is. And yes, ofcourse he hated films, but he spent half the book describing and talking about them. Good times…
Ravi
I wouldn’t believe it if you say so sir. If Mr.Kashyap tells me that PFC is his personal blog where he can write whatever he wants to, I am backing off, immediately. I thought of it as a communal website. My bad.
Ratnakar Sadasyula
You are wrong sir. Each movement constructs itself based on an ideological foundation. I am not sure what you mean by the European New Wave, but if its the French New Wave, they have to be amongst the most theoretically sound and ideologically principalled group of filmmakers ever. I do not have to mention the Cahiers, do I? There should really be no debate there.
The American Indie Movement – which one? The ‘84 Movement initiated by Jarmusch’s Stranger than Paradise, the ‘92 Sundance reinitiation by Tarantino’s Reservoir Dogs and Rodriguez’s El Mariarchi, or the more recent, consummation of the earlier motivation, as carried out by Wes Anderson, Reitman, Linklater. Any of these, as you will discover, are less cinematic movements, and more non-conformist ones, where in low-budget filmmakers, from varied schools, and of diverse beliefs make their films. They do not HAVE to have an ideological ground to share, because the only common factor is, that they make films in less money. Their motive is not to change the face of cinema, but to make films like they want to. Now if you categorize the current film movement in India as that, I might agree with you on the similarity, and then, we can initiate a debate on the merits/demerits of individual and specific films, rather than a discussion on the whole movement that contains them.
The Beatnik Generation Films – Which one again? But because you mention 70’s, I presume you mean The New Hollywood. They did not have to build an ideological ground, because the Beat Generation from the 50’s, and the European Counterculture movement of the 60’s had already set up a ground for them. Combined with the French New Wave, which emphasised on the reproduction of reality as the FILMMAKER saw it, and ofcourse the placement of the director as the central figure, they had their aesthetic guidelines presented to them, so they did not have to plan, they merely had to implement/consummate, and some implementation it was. An analogy here is the Woodstock Festival. The inception in ‘69 did not have to first decide on a target audience and consequently, its principles/values, it already had them built.
“Yeah sitting on my arse, even i can raise a 1000 questions, but its when you are actually hands on, actually doing the work, that you understand things as is. ”
First, the comparison is not even valid. Its a baseless, last-resort, last straw argument. If it were valid, then we are basically eliminating the whole concept of text-based criticism, of film, art, politics, culture, anything. You are saying that people who sit and write have no evident right to write critiques on people who actually work. If that were the case, the whole concept of healthy film criticism, or raising questions, will go down the drain. More importantly, does that also mean that your recent criticisation, on the same site, of the terrorist attacks and the media coverage, are unimportant and irrelevant, since you sat on your arse and wrote them, thereby adopting an objective perspective of the situation and not being actually involved. This argument serves no purpose. Its useless.
“As the movement grows along, as it matures, it will find its ideas, its objectives becomming more concrete.”
So it is a movement after all? Then where is the ideological ground, or its ambition? Which direction does it intend to move into?
I like how Mr.Kashyap says that his films make an effort to expose the debauchery and shallowness of perceived Indian morality. Thats a start. That, atleast, is an intention there.
Sir, no film movements just begin, shoot randomly, and then recognise their targets. No, that’s not how it has or does happen.
“The people who make the movies know better than you and me, it is for them to define their objectives and way of reaching out.”
Return to wasteland. Useless argument. If they know better, then let us just stop praising/criticising, and become silent viewers.
We tend to digress here a lot. I simply propose a discussion on the post Mr.Kashyap wrote, but you are willing to tell me about systems, hierarchies, glass ceilings, what not and ultimately what?
@ Anju – But it seems, from some basic and superficial viewing of your endlessly long writing, that you are a fanboy yourself…
Nina,
If the size of the post matters, by the size of your post it looks like you aren’t a fan at all.
Hi Anurag
By talking about Danny Boyle on your post and SI-2K camera, are you trying to justify the cinematography and the look of the film which was talked about on PFC? here is the post if you haven’t read it http://passionforcinema.com/thinking-without-thinking/
@Anuj fundu comment “you are saying that people who sit and write have no evident right to write critiques on people who actually work. If that were the case, the whole concept of healthy film criticism, or raising questions, will go down the drain.”
Looking forward to your answer Anurag
Seems like lot has happened…
@navdeep, Thanks for the definition
Answer- mise-en-scene
Etymology- French, year- 1893
Family Resemblance- Theatre.
Growth- Editing.
Hey I think everyone seems to be getting the wrong message. I’m not here on a rampage or flaming crap, let’s get this clear first. We all fighting for the same cause- to promote, write and discuss good cinema in the country. But the difference is that we are particularly interested in how the mise-en-scene (form) works in order for a rise of a cinematic expression. That as a cinephile to me, or generation of new cinephile who want to be filmmakers is important; provided we are interested in doing something later in life. So that the expression in turn, is not only Indian, but transcends boundaries. Else if u think I’m wrong tell me… why is that anyone of our ‘New Age filmmakers’ have not crossed boundaries, judging from there same age group/years in cinema and films themselves to other countries?
.semi-santusht
So u think…a cinephile should stop thinking? Cynical? What cynical? In every profession it does not matter if people analyze, compare history or inform. But the problem here lies with cinema and our cinema culture. People find it hard when their generalized vocabulary of the medium is threatened and they start hiding instead of accepting. If you people believe that a support is necessary for this system of ‘ New Age Filmmakers’ to come up, it definitely needs to be talked about in the right manner- to be seen critically. And as for L’amour, Rissent put it, ““It’s not about just loving a film, and one must love it for the right reasons”. So please do provide your right reasons for loving a film any form of superlative that is a ‘ reader response’ is not to be confused with ‘ criticism’.
It should be about acceptance and learning, if I don’t know I learn and inform. Godard, Kurosawa, Ray or our great cinematographer like KK Mahajan were eternal student, always learning, re-inventing that is something missing from most people here. That is one core reason why we are not able to mould real film lovers, people who cannot define the difference between the tradition of our cinema from the rest of the world or vice-versa. And I’m sure one cannot deny the fact, ‘That any form of stylistic revolution cannot come forward without the knowledge of tradition”, and in the right manner.
.
And about me making movies…sure, will do so…tell one of the PFC author or a producer if he is ready to believe in my idea, and I’m ready with a script. And about your remark…well, doesn’t bother me, anything in cinema that is obliged to run behind literature is not my cup of tea.:)
i totally agree wid nitesh n ankit…our cinema need a revolution and not publicity….!!! thnx guys ..this is very informative….!!!
Shashank, It is Nitesh n Anuj….however, Ankit too goes with their opinions.
well.. too much going on here..
anuj, ankit , nitesh completely agree with you.. but how ever much we aspire to do we are working in a system that would just not allow that. Imagine what i do is not even called envelope pushing here, one of them said , “you always kick the stationary shop is why we do not wan’t to make your film”. Guess how would they react to real pushing of the envelope. I guess instead of waiting for that day to arrive or like or wait around for what nitesh said,”tell one of the PFC author or a producer if he is ready to believe in my idea…” i don’t have that kind of patience. I would rather keep working and take it bit by bit. And believe me that day is not far when nitesh will find that producer and hopefully it could be me.
As far as discussing the genesis of the real idea or what the film is about, will do it after the release. I don’t think even Nolan or fincher or anyone discusses what they have done with the film before it releases. That would kill the surprise and build expectations based on the reader’s or the listener’s imagination.
However much one tries to runaway from the truth, fact is eventually it’s the commercial viability of an idea that funds a movement.
Anuj, you talk of the french new wave, well , it had the advantage of the artistically educated audience and the atmosphere ready for it. The cinema that existed in france and europe prior to the wave, was and still is so far ahead of what we have here. Lets reach that point first before the ideology becomes a wave. Till then sitting around and waiting and dreaming and hoping is not going to solve anything. For that you have to let go of a lot. It has taken me seven tears to complete Gulaal and we could do it on the basis that the entire cast and crew of Gulaal did it for free over those many years, and the loss was not just monetary, a lot of families broke up, friendships turned sour , teams changed because everyone had an ideology there. Had i just pursued that one film or waited for Black friday or paanch to release, my ideology would have achieved nothing.
Gulaal happened because i did other things, Because i wrote films like main aisa hi hoon, shaka laka etc.. Are you willing to let go of your ideology because you believe in it, believe in it so much that you will let go of what people percieve of you, that somebody might call you a sell out, if you don’t have that kind of strength to be called an ass, to be the other to your very own, then that new wave is never hitting our shores.
I need to promote not just my film, but me and my team. If no smoking was a fucked up movie, who fucked it up.. me .. but why were the crew ignored by the industry while there work was world class. Once the film comes out, the crew is never discussed, due credits are never given.
so here is all i have to say..
and regardless of what anyone thinks, i will continue to write, that’s my job. You feel something is missing, ask questions, ask me i want to know more about this and that. The problem with us is that we form judgements rather than asking questions. We have killed our curiosity, because we have already found out the meaning of life, we know what cinema or anything should be about. We don’t search, we already know. And that is sad.
Saw the song emotional atyachaar, novel song and the background scene of drugged Abhay deol looked inspired from Boyle’s Trainspotting, tribute?
@ Anurag. There is an interesting anecdote from a Godard film, I know he has appeared quite a lot in this comment, but let it be for good. In one of his film a daughter asked her father, “Papa, tell me how do we know a person is trustworthy”, her papa replied, ask him whether he loves reading? And if he replies Balzac, Shakespeare, Homer…move on, but if he asks you.” What do you mean by reading?” there is hope.
So thank you for opening the platform to question. At the end of the day, being a cinephile that is an important proposition for learning. Be it for a movement of camera or editing. Beside it’s not that one is not aware how closed the system of films are here, and filmmaking in general and how much crap is floating around. Perhaps, call it my naivet'© that is the only reason I advocate for a reinvention of mise-en-scene by our new age filmmakers, because the representation of social and economic woes without that of cinematic reforms I’m sure won’t get us anywhere. That is the reason whether it was Ray years back or Jia Zhangke in China it needed to be done.
The received wisdom of the European audience being far more literate is not quite so, the problems with France back then is similar what we face, it took the Cahier group about ten long years to achieve that. Yet their mainstream films continued to be produced only a peer group of (Bresson, Melville, Becker, and Dassin) and others could offer something different that they championed before breaking out with their fresh mise-en-scene. So if in true sense you know it as much as I do, or maybe more, there has to be a call for a individual cinema, that could seem personal from the content, but remains part of the public domain in the form bringing it onscreen.
Maybe…the only time I show a ray of hope where in one of the scene in Oye Lucky Oye…DB had used all three spaces on-screen. The time when he introduced Abay Deol to Paresh Rawal.
Thanks for the words on making a film, just that wanted to make one small clearance, here I’m no different from the bit of bit you did… writing criticism in the large context for me is making films. One writes essay on a paper the other on a canvas, and like how a critic is lost/alone before a blank page a director is on the set. So, for me, it’s the same process, and depends how one looks at cinema and criticism in general. The only reason I mentioned that because in the long run of writing we do need our Baurnberger and George de Beauregard to believe in things, a wave, else it won’t happen.
Mr. Kashyap,
“The cinema that existed in france and europe prior to the wave, was and still is so far ahead of what we have here. Lets reach that point first before the ideology becomes a wave.”
Sure the cinema there was far ahead of what we have here. But then who is responsible for that. 2 persons- Filmmakers and audience. Mainly its the filmmaker who should be involved here because the audience sees what you show them. But then you might say filmmakers present what audience wants to see, but then who developed that mindset of audience – Filmmakers. Its thats not very hard to make a good film, after all in Hitchcock terms it only requires a good script to make a good film.
So if a few people in France can do that, so can we, but then the point is who should take the initiative – You(Already a known filmmaker) or us(Anuj, Nitesh and me) who are as of yet an audience to the films made by you people. If Dibakar Banerjee can make a good film that serves both the intellectual and an average person, so can everybody including you, instead of making a completely surreal movie like No Smoking and then blaming it to the audience for not understanding it. Is should go step by step. So if you as a filmmaker think that India cannot have this new wave, and rather say that we are far behind the cinema that existed in France and Europe, I am sorry to say but you as one of the filmmakers is responsible for that.
One simple example from your post is for making one good film Gulaal(that too it may be good,as of now i haven’t seen it), you gave the industry more than 2 bad films(Main Asia Hi Hoon, Shaka Laka….etc.). So in a way you are nobody to criticize the present status of Indian Cinema.
You also said that crew which was very good in No Smoking – I am sorry but John Abraham who in my opinion didnot give a good performance but managed to look his best till now, is now a bigger star than he was before the film. Vishal Bharadwaj gave the music to the film. He doesn’t need any introduction. Sure there were many more technicians and crew members involved in that who are not recognized but this happens and is a part of the industry. You should better know about the behind camera ones and promoting it to people in PFC, is not going to help them get better contacts IMO.
“As far as discussing the genesis of the real idea or what the film is about, will do it after the release. I don’t think even Nolan or fincher or anyone discusses what they have done with the film before it releases. That would kill the surprise and build expectations based on the reader’s or the listener’s imagination.”
You wrote an entire post on No Smoking on the very day it was released. Before anybody could have thought of the film was about, you made it clear on PFC. And I bet would have got your idea of the film. That itself says the film was incomplete. Because you just made complicated film without giving the right number of clues to solve it.
@anuj
yaar fan ho gaye tumhare ,you brought the jaan back into the discussion ,or else all I would have heard is Anurag Sir Anurag Sir……….
Anurag Kashyap
Thanks for replying directly, and putting a lot of things back in perspective, and letting the discussion preserve its status and not become a mud-slinging competition. None of us want that.
I, and all of us, are completely aware that the system has assumed a rotten state, and refuses opportunities, while suppressing talent and encouraging mediocrity, but as Ankit says, I am not sure till what extent can we absolve ourselves of the responsibility for it. What I have had a problem with from the beginning of this thread is not the cinema we have, since that is obvious and merits another discussion, but with the concept of exonerating ourselves, reducing all the bad cinema to ‘their’ stable, and accusing it on ‘them’. Somewhere, all of us are equally responsible, for not, as Nitesh says, examining and inquiring, and thus, as a result, moving from the darkness of one bad cinema, to the darkness of not questioning what SEEMS to be great cinema.
Another issue here is the absence of a definite collective. There is no movement. Each filmmaker lives to make another film, but in the long-run, that will not serve any purpose, apart from having a few films to look back at from a full year of a ridiculous roster, year after year. Thats not a movement. Its merely an illusion of it. Fine, all you filmmakers do get together, with your fans and discuss cinema, but the discussion is unfruitful if it does not yield a result which impacts a popular realm. Any debate, for that matter, which completely separates itself from the responsibility of improving or evoking further argumentation while involving more people is unsuccessful. I find that attitude missing here. They have become snobs who like to keep their information close to their chest, not letting it go, and afraid that it will get corrupted if they meet some people who do not know as much as they do. Somewhere in the process, sir, you are accountable as well, for creating this feeling of a cozy group which remains self-satisfied, and this is genuine criticism, not meant to derogate your status, but because its essential, in my view, for great filmmaking to exist, it is imperative that great criticism should do too, and its my assurance, that we will ostracize you for each wrong move you, or any filmmaker makes in this nation, and write elaborate analysis on every step towards genuine progress.
“I don’t think even Nolan or fincher or anyone discusses what they have done with the film before it releases.”
Ahh, those comparisons are needless. One of the responses brought it up, so…
“Anuj, you talk of the french new wave, well , it had the advantage of the artistically educated audience and the atmosphere ready for it. ”
Its a vicious cycle sir. We wait patiently for the audience to develop a keen acumen and receptiveness for art, and they wait for art which genuinely pulls them out of their comfort shells and makes them anxious, excited and engaged. The wait is never consummated, and both groups place their respective accusations on each other. Fine, agreed, the audience is ignorant, but in that situation, are we, or anyone here, doing anything to initiate them, or are we merely lamenting? That’s the question.
“Gulaal happened because i did other things, Because i wrote films like main aisa hi hoon, shaka laka etc.. ”
I agree with Ankit again sir, because while that move may eventually help you achieve the filmmaking stature you aspire to reach, it will, in the process, populate the cinemas with films which corrupt the audiences further. Will this take the cinema of the nation forward, I am not sure. Will this build your eventual reputation, obviously. The decision of an individual over a collective is upto you, and your own, and no one has a right to question it, but then, it must be clear.
“, if you don’t have that kind of strength to be called an ass, to be the other to your very own”
But is that the only method sir? Its sad if that is.
” Once the film comes out, the crew is never discussed, due credits are never given.”
Sir, both you and me know that due credits are given where they are deserved. Actors are always praised, beyond the praise that they deserve, but you dedicated half your post to the lead actor. You know its not a valid point sir. I have no doubts about your intentions, but am merely questioning their ultimate execution. Enough debate on this. As I have been told here, you have the choice to write what you wish to, so I will keep that in mind, but because you have reciprocated in the process of questioning, we will question, and we will expect answers.
And I will hope that your film is indeed a masterpiece, and then, we can write glowing reviews of it, but if it is not, we will question the validity of the film’s celebration the Indian tendency to revel in self-pity, rather than criticise it.
Do you really think that the french cinema was all new wave in the sixties.. that is the only cinema remembered today.. but in large numbers they made massy, mindless movies.. count the number of films in that period, and the filmmakers.. you read about them.. talk to the people who lived then.. they will tell you what you don’t know about..
Anurag Kashyap
Sure, I’d love to know about the period. Infact, I was reading this great blog.
jdcopp.blogspot.com and more specifically, a July 2006 article, where the critics provide us with valuable thumbnail critiques on various ‘massy, mindless’ film directors.
Do check it out when you can.
I am sure the ‘tradition of quality’ or the ‘cinema of papa’ continued well into the 60’s, and its existence is true even now, when most criticism guided against French Cinema of today, accuses it of being escapist and not in touch with reality.
But,
Now that you have quite openly compared the potential of this, the emerging(according to you), emerging new-age Indian cinema to the French New Wave, by believing that our ‘few good films surrounded in a large proportion by bad films’, is similar to the New Wave films being surrounded by the ‘massy, mindless’ films, then we can deduce the following conclusions-:
a) This new-age cinema of ours will be remembered as fondly(or otherwise) by the world fifty years from now as the French New Wave – Going, however, by the initial response, the early films of our new-age cinema, say a Bheja Fry or a Black Friday, really have not had as much as an impact as that of a Breathless or a 400 Blows, so the initial battle is lost. Moving on,
b) You open a more interesting prism of discussion – You believe that ‘great’ films will ALWAYS continue to exist among a horde of mindless films, and it is only those films that will be remembered years later, when the others are forgotten and have faded from public memory.
To this, my essential argument is this-:
a)Most great films, or classics, which are remembered with great fascination today, created a furore, or an impact(whether negative or positive) ALSO, at the time of their release. There are exceptions in the form of Murnau’s Sunrise, Hitchcock’s Vertigo, or Dutt’s Kaagaz Ke Phool, but barring these few, most renowned films were subject to great critical scrutiny, as well as public admiration, upon original release. But we rarely see a single such film now. Films have become like the moist celebration foam, which disappear as soon as they evaporate. They exist only in the temporality of their short eras, or till the next year’s award function. Which leads us to the next conclusion.
b) We will not have films to show for this, the existing era, 40 years from now. An analogy can be seen in how the era of 80’s is mostly marked by the death of parallel cinema, but apart from that, the era is a vaccum, in terms of how we associate with it, since it did not produce great films. (Not counting the times when we remember the films for how ‘bad’ they were) Our association is mostly attached to the 70’s and prior. A same vaccum, could be what this era might eventually yield.
So while I immediately agree with your argument upon how even the New Wave emerged from within a definite mass of bad films, they now have three factors strongly going for them-:
a) Their collective ideologies had an enormous impact on how films were made, all over the world, and forever after.
b) Their films, upon release, were either subject to erudite critical championing, or to mass popularity in a way that they affected both cultural and ideological identities, and in some rare early cases, to both.
c) Their films, as you say, are still studied, for their aesthetical and formal impact, all over the world.
Sadly, none of it is going for our movement. You might tell me that option c) is open to waiting and watching, but its results, sadly, are a direct consequence of factors a) and b), which are not, as of now, functioning our way.
Thanks for the response.
as long as YRF exist and churn out masterpieces like Tashan, RNBDJ, and win suppsedely “power award” every year, bollywood will never move ahead
anuj you are in a tearing hurry to be there. I guess i m too small and insignificant to bring that change. I m happy being the self promoting me, atleast i m making what i make.
I leave the change to you.
Let me fool myself that our cinema is changing, and i will remember this time fondly, probably.
there is no point discussing anything here.
You sound like those 100 of filmmaking students that come out of filmschools in india, overnight wanting a change, guess what, 80% of them don’t do anything ever because the atmosphere is not such. 15% after a while give in and become worse than the present scenario. The only ones who have ever achieved anything significant, and changed things are the ones who pour themselves headlong into work and find their way.
I know the great hopes of our cinema that could have been, the cinema that did not go beyond discussions, Whenever you want to take a walk through that, let me know, you just might end up kill yourself, seeing those erstwhile huge egos,now not even a whimper.
Discussions and debates have never solved anything when not backed by action. So I m happy believing we are doing something because that is what drives me.
Anurag: All the best for Dev.D. The promos look interesting and the song Tauba is very good. I am sure you must have been questioned in the past and I am sure you will be questioned in the future also. But keep doing what you believe in. Being a Kamal Hassan fan, I was heartbroken when Marudha Nayakam got shelved and again heartbroken recently when his Marmayogi got ‘postponed’. But the man seems unperturbed – he simply goes on to his next film.And creates a masterpiece at least once in 3-4 years. The point I am making is film making is an expensive proposition and therefore people who hold the power are the people who have sound commercial acumen – not necessarily a keen eye for art. Considering this, you have chosen your path and you believe in your path and thats what matters. Please go ahead and talk about your crew and your cast. I may not agree always(I didn’t agree when you showered praise on John – I still think he is wooden), but that is your right.
All the best once again for Dev.D.
@AK
“The only ones who have ever achieved anything significant, and changed things are the ones who pour themselves headlong into work and find their way.”
GREAT LINE, AK !!!
GK
AK
Enuf of emostional atyachar …pls release the music asap
Mr. Kashyap,
You don’t expet an overnight change in the quality of films made but you do expect an overnight change in the audience. You give them No Smoking and then either you or your crew members say it a film made ahead of its time. Great.
Movie fan,
Why blame Yash Raj always?? What about Shaka Laka……where Anurag Kahsyap participated!!!!
ankit well YRF is run by egomaniacs
do i need to say more???
as for SKLBB I think anurag already explained why he did that movie
search for SKLLBB on PFC and u will anurag’s article about that movie
@ Anurag (#65) “Discussions and debates have never solved anything when not backed by action.” “You sound like those 100 of filmmaking students that come out of filmschools in india, overnight wanting a change”
Well said Sirji!
Kitna dialogue maarte hain kuchh log.
Sounds like some of them want to directly jump into the league of classics and straightaway make a Citizen Kane or a Three Colors or a 400 Blows, and anything below that would be a sin against the art itself.
@ Anuj, Nitesh, and the other guy
Any artistic movement worth its salt is based on an artistic imperative to convey things the way you want to. It does not emerge from board rooms or discussions where creative people sit together and decide how to change the world. It happens. It is organic. It is always challenging and always comes too late for those who really want it. It is also stupid to want a movement for its own sake. You seem to want to force it out.
My friend is a filmmaker in Singapore and he is killing himself for his first feature, everyday. The project is self funded and completely independent. I admire him as I do Anurag because these are the people who will bring about a change. Not by roundtables and rallies, but by just being who they are….
As far as this article is concerned, I think it’s more of a casual update than anything else. Where’s the vendetta kids? Also, what’s wrong with an artist enjoying his work and wanting to talk about it? It just shows faith and excitement.
Anurag Kashyap
Thanks for responding sir.
You do see my point here, don’t you? You have become more than a person, and you have become a symbol, a symbol of rebellion, and cinema in this nation. So much so that people rely on you to supply them with their opinions, ideas and viewpoints. You write something about a slow, gradual change, and two people, who did not have anything, remotely, to do with the debate until now, follow you, copy paste your lines, and simply agree with whatever you said, word to word. They did not have a single original contribution to make, but feel obliged to support you blindly. As someone who has watched much more films than I have, read much more than I have, tell me, is this the cinematic environment you want?
I am not in a tearing hurry to reach anywhere sir, and realise that its an ancient fools’ dream to believe the mountain can be moved in a single day, and I am ready to stand here for years to come to achieve the cause, but I need indicators in the present that assure me of a greater future. I cannot sit and analyse each era’s attributes as and when they come, so as to wait for our future to come, and realising that things have not changed, and that we did not make a difference when we could have – I’d be heartbroken if that happens. Today, I do not demand great films, I do not demand of you to win us the Palm or the Bear, I merely wish that you, as a symbol, encourage the formulation of a central objective, of a central ideology, for the movement, and not let it move in random directions, eventually moving its hands in darkness. It’s brilliant if you are selfish and plan to achieve as a filmmaker the goals you have set for yourself, but you surely realise that you, specifically, have come too far in proposing a new cinema, and a cinematic movement, to now express individual concerns. There are filmmakers, on this site itself, who have cleverly distanced and then built closeness to the cause, at their convenience, so as to derive their vested gains from it, but never be responsible for it, but sadly, you have kept too close to now refuse participation.
The film school student analogy only reiterates the point we have made thousands and thousands of times – that the system is rotten, or did you want to suggest a similar eventual, death of ambition, end for me? Thanks for the encouragement sir, but I assure you that I have, as of now, nothing, remotely, similar to those film students, and am too concerned with our cinematic state to not end up being a minute part of a change later on.
Sir, for all the erstwhile egos you mention, I agree, they are erstwhile, but the whole issue is, they are still egos. They could never let go of their dream, and yes, they ended in a whimper, but that’s hardly our celebration, right? Why are we pronouncing it in such a lauditory tone?
“Discussions and debates have never solved anything when not backed by action. So I m happy believing we are doing something because that is what drives me.”
Precisely. According to you, you deem action more potent than words. Fantastic. I assume, by action, you mean ‘making films’. That again, should diminish the importance of a multitude your own blog posts, which if read in context with the above pasted message, should now become meaningless, or were you merely promoting your upcoming films?
Sir, I apologize if you consider no discussion possible further. Entirely your wish, though I am here if I’ll be beckoned.
Kenny
“straightaway make a Citizen Kane or a Three Colors or a 400 Blows”
First of all, saying this in as polite a manner as possible, why these films sir? You could have included some more ‘classics’ in the list, so only as to appear informed and studied. Or is there a pattern to it, that I do not notice.
Second, why is this expectation SO wrong and blasphemous? Overnight? We’ve had a proper cinematic framework in place since 1907 sir, but we still do not have an identity. Overnight?
Thirdly, I do not expect an overnight change. Do refer to my reply to Mr.Kashyap.
Chalo. Abhi itna hi.
Nice read
It is always interesting to read story behind filmmaking,
Anurag please keep on writing,
-
@Anuj
bas kar teri bakar bakar
AK… this could be true that this write up is for publicity… but it takes lot of hard work to reach this stage where what ever you write or speak does publicity for you… Pls go ahead… we want to know more about what has gone behind making of DevD and your pre-production efforts.
Anurag Kashyap
Apologies for misreading your ‘action’ proposition. Ignore the reply.
the camera you are talking about is Nikon D3 Right? the snorri cam looks really good. this film is surely a tribute to Darren Aronofsky. It’s like Darren Aronofsky meets Takashi Miike. Indian Cinema has entered the new era of style over substance
AK… I would further suggest why don’t you request other key crew members to contribute their blog on DevD… coz what’s being said is not so important… The key is who you are hearing it from!
Anuj, you seem to be in a hurry to dismiss what others are saying. Not sure where your air of superiority comes from. Do let us know.
If you read my comment again, you’ll see that it is in response to your enlightened explanation of movements and how they begin.
Things didn’t happen because Eddie Vedder sat around at a coffee shop one day with Kurt Cobain and said, “I am going to start a movement, I think I’ll call it grunge”.
If you want structure and rules in this artistic movement, why don’t you tell us what we’ll see when we get there? What are your goals?
Is it not enough that ‘different’ films are finding ’sizeable’ audiences? That producers are willing to take chances and new voices are being heard? That we are going to move away from the three four things that people insert into their films for commercial success? That art and commerce get to breath in the same space without destroying each other?
Or are we going to have to wait to hear the words “We’re there” from you, kind sir?
Anurag..Friends in this thread can write!
Man, how I wish someone really comes up with that killer script that can be taken to Warner or Fox straightaway!
Coz, this kind of abilities shall have to be taken all the way.
In fact, a friend from LA production house was just in touch and lamenting the absence of good scripts. I chose to keep quiet then.
And here I see such command over films, writing and all else!
Moviefan,
Anurag Kashyap did Shakalaka Boom Boom for money so that he could complete Gulaal…right? Now why do you think Yash Raj did Tashan…to make money. So what’s the difference now. Even Yash Raj gives an odd good film, RNBDJ was pretty much average film 6/10, Chak De India was very good. Surely Tashan, Laga…., Aaja Nachley were very bad films but then you cant expect goods to come out every now and then especially seeing the current status of cinema, the chances of good film is minimum. There was only one good film I can say India made this year, Oye Lucky!……that too a 7.5/10 IMO. And if you dont know or remember it was Yash Chopra who gave India those evergreen Waqt, Deewar, Silsila, Lamhe, Chandni when everybody was busy doing cheap action movies. He is onle of the legends of Indian Cinema. You might not appreciate those films, those films didn’t have Anurag Kashyap. Having said a lot against Anurag Kashyap, he wrote some very good scripts like Satya, Kaun and worked in other great films like Shool, Yuva, Water.
anuj i will respect YRF when they stop worhsipping SRK and expect him to save their sinking ship every year
they contributed to what i call NRIizim of bollywood which is regressive cinema at its best
as of right now i have more respect for UTV a
Hi Anurag,
Being following this discussion, below are my thoughts on what you have written to Anuj.
“I leave the change to you.
Let me fool myself that our cinema is changing, and i will remember this time fondly, probably.
there is no point discussing anything here.
You sound like those 100 of filmmaking students that come out of filmschools in india, overnight wanting a change, guess what, 80% of them don’t do anything ever because the atmosphere is not such. 15% after a while give in and become worse than the present scenario.”
On the above quote, I have to agree with Anuj’s point here. You are one of the founder members of a movement, it’s too late to show Individual concerns, there are a million film making hopes and dreams riding with your movement, it will all come crumbling down for them if you say the above.
Imagine if one fine day, Gandhi decides that Non Co-operation is not paying my bills so I am going back to South Africa and be a lawyer, you guys continue with your movement, Let me fool myself change is happening and I will remember this time fondly, go get screwed up fighting the British and eventually join them and I’ll meet you in South Africa years later for a drink.
What would have happened?
All I am trying to say here is if you have started the movement to challenge the system, lets not say and accept the fact “we cannot do anything about the system, at least I am working towards the system, or at least i am trying, or I am happy existing in this system”.
Lets continue what you had started, lets challenge the system and reinvent. Indian cinema is slowly becoming global, so we need to have that voice, not a voice that listens to the system and tells us the same, that’s screwing up the system completely. You already have support here and you will continue having the support and respect, from the people who admired you for the reasons you have set yourself apart.
“The problem with us is that we form judgments rather than asking questions. We have killed our curiosity, because we have already found out the meaning of life, we know what cinema or anything should be about. We don’t search, we already know.”
I don’t know if that is sad or not but that is what happens most of the times. I think cinema, like all art forms can at best question the viewer, the viewer’s got to find his own answers. As with the discussion going on, one can keep arguing counter arguing-analyse each and every word , quote-interpret misinterpret(baal ki khaal) but it’s leading to nowhere..like we say something and then we say something else and we are trying to figure it out..Ethan Hawke said that..it’s absolutely fine but we have to be honest about the fact we are trying to figure it out..i think we are thinking through the words and it should be the other way around.
Anuj. you become the indicator rather than asking and looking for one. this is the time for you guys to show action, not just discuss or debate. write that film and go and make it, move around. For years i have fought the system from outside, now i m part of it and am still fighting from with in. You know actually the change might be overnight, and that will be with that one film that breaks all conventions, rises over all insecurities and still breaks through.. May be i thought i had it in me, i now feel that i probably don’t . Not that i m giving up, but i would love to see you guys be that, what we failed to become. Do it. I will stand up and applaud you and say thank you.
btw you guys did manage to trouble me.. my thoughts.. created self doubt, hope it’s for the good..
Need to sleep now..
Slow down you crazy child
You’re so ambitious for a juvenile
But then if you’re so smart tell me why
Are you still so afraid?
Where’s the fire, what’s the hurry about?
You better cool it off before you burn it out
You got so much to do and only
So many hours in a day
But you know that when the truth is told
That you can get what you want
Or you can just get old
You’re gonna kick off before you even get halfway through
When will you realize…Vienna waits for you
Slow down you’re doing fine
You can’t be everything you want to be
Before your time
Although it’s so romantic on the borderline tonight
Too bad but it’s the life you lead
You’re so ahead of yourself
That you forgot what you need
Though you can see when you’re wrong
You know you can’t always see when you’re right
You got your passion you got your pride
But don’t you know that only fools are satisfied?
Dream on but don’t imagine they’ll all come true
When will you realize
Vienna waits for you
Slow down you crazy child
Take the phone off the hook and disappear for a while
It’s alright you can afford to lose a day or two
When will you realize…
Vienna waits for you.
And you know that when the truth is told
That you can get what you want
Or you can just get old
You’re gonna kick off before you even get halfway through
Why don’t you realize…Vienna waits for you
When will you realize…Vienna waits for you
dot dot dot
Guys…a man is giving some unique behind the scenes info here…instead of being thankful, you are bashing him with your arguments…why??
…is it because he comes here naked and answers your filth?…you are judging which shot is tribute to which film…if you have problem finding his writeup as promotion…switch to all the news channels where Amir is promoting his version of Memento, shaving every head coming his way, showing his colour sprayed 8 packs…save your arguments for him…but yeah for that you need balls..
…Pinjare mein band sher ko bacche bhi moongfali se marte hain(Dialog from some film)… :D
@Anuj
Each and every single alphabet of AK’s comment of 65 is TRUE, I stand by his words and vouch for them as I have seen him go through what you can ever imagine in the next life or if you are that fortunate enough, than this life maybe.
I liked your line “There are filmmakers, on this site itself, who have cleverly distanced and then built closeness to the cause, at their convenience, so as to derive their vested gains from it, but never be responsible for it”,
Carry on and make that OVERNIGHT PATHBREAKING FILM, I will be the first guy to applaud it !!!!
GK
@ All friends who think Anurag owes them a revolution:
When he came to Bombay, Anurag even worked as an extra on film sets to keep body and soul together. He’s seen Manoj Bajpai not win a Filmfare supporting actor award for Satya – Salman Khan got it for Kuch Kuch Hota Hai. He’s battled tremendous odds to make his kind of movies. Sure, he may have his human flaws – who doesn’t?
That said, this is his blog, the one platform where he can say what he wants without it being spiced up or filtered by a journalist. What’s the objection if he wants to share something with the world? If I don’t care I’ll just skip it na.
Some of you write extremely well – even your hyberbole seems to make sense. And it looks like you’ve got tons to say and you know how to say it. If you believe that Anurag’s films should do the talking, then let that apply to you too, mate. Go and make your astoundingly great movie so that we can hail you as the new Kiezlowski or Goddard or Bergman. Seriously, with all the energy and thought you’ve given into guiding Anurag here you could’ve easily written the first 8 pages of your magnum opus.
Anurag doesn’t owe us anything. He’ll make films the way he wants to. Some of us incidentally happen to love them, and some of us have the fortune of personally knowing him, so I’m not ashamed in any way to be defending him. The day he goes crazy, I’ll stop.
Till then, register your script at the FWA and send it around. We’re waiting for your GREAT movie
Oh, and another thing. When my scripts start getting made, I’ll shamelessly blog about them as they progress. I’ll want as much publicity as possible. And why shouldn’t I? If I can get more butts in theatre seats, why not? Producers need to at least make a little profit, they’re not running a charity show.
I think many people here do not realize that in many of the posts double standards are being followed ,while we bash SRK and YRF for unabashedly promoting their film we praise small time film-makers for doing the same on PFC ,marketing is part of movie making and there is nothing wrong in it .I personally think Anurag has done a fantastic job by using this forum to create a kind of base for his movies ,whether he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally.(I believe it is unintentional going by his posts).
This IMO reflects a kind of seige mentality ,wherein we think that we are being attacked by someone (read Big banners like YRF ,Mukta arts) and hence we need to support every single small budget film that comes along ,just for the sake of it. we have almost forgotten to analyse a film objectively.
Melanie
You assume we are not making these self-financed, independent features. All of us are. We know the issues involved. Movements are organic in creation, and the motivation for creation is supplied by a prudent system that takes people for granted. So here we have two elements : The movement and the system.
What we demand is not that the system be uprooted overnight, for we are well aware of the time that would take, and are patient, but the organisation of the movement, for the motivation of creation has been supplied, for a long long time, but we do not witness it being used as anything constructive.
As for your reiteration of the point thousands have made : that of the futility of discussions around roundtables and rallies, you are sadly mistaken. While ultimately, ‘action’ is obviously the most important component, some of the greatest action’s success is only possible due to a long process of evaluation and examination that precedes it. You can keep pushing a wall for hours, for even that will be action, but evaluation will tell you to walk through the door. As for vendetta, I hardly know Mr.Kashyap except as the face of this ‘movement’, so there is no question of me being inquisitive in any other context than that. As for superiority, I will only advice you to not confuse curiosity with superiority.
Anurag Kashyap
I am so sorry that I expressed my expectation of greatness from you. From a distance, you seemed to be the person on this site who represented all its values, of rebellion, of ideology, of radicalism – but as we move further on, I discover that you not only absolve yourself of any such responsibility, but place it on those who question. So now I know, that whoever makes a demand out of you, since you have been promising so long, you merely challenge the other person to fulfil the demand himself. ‘Jaake khud kar lo’. Its not assuring, but fine, I will take it, and stop asking. As a conclusive statement – I do not expect a change overnight, I am ready to work constantly, and maybe you have lost patience, and maybe at my age, you were more enthused about the future than I am, but then, in that case, you are not my role model – sadly.
Kshitij
Fantastic poem.
Loverboy
Yaar, tu chaalu kar de thodi bahut. Achche maze aayenge, sachi me…Sirf sunna aur dekhna band kar bhai.
Super!
Thanks for the encouragement. I also consider Aamir’s convenient use of the media and his constant projection of himself as a perfectionist ridiculous. Want to discuss him?
And if you know that Aamir’s doing a wrong, then begin questioning it instead of sharing it among your friends for a laugh.
G K Desai and Kenny
First, if you begin bringing your personal experiences with Anurag into the picture, then things move completely out of perspective. I know him only through his films and his blog, and to me, thats sufficient knowledge. If you want to tell me how he is in his personal life, I am not interested, because that is not objective criticism, its standing up for a friend. There is a technical difference between the two, and I am more interested in the former.
Secondly, about your demand of me making films, its a useless criteria that you apply to judge others. Its what Mr.Ratnakar did 35-40 posts ago. If that were a valid demand, you could ask all critics in the world to make films themselves, stand up for elections themselves, play sports themselves. If that were the case, all the Kaels, all the Eberts, all the Rosenbaums and all the Malcolms of the world should make films themselves. All the news channels should shut down and begin the subject of their own gaze. All the democracies should stop voting, and opining, and everyone should stand up for elections. It will all collapse. There is a maker, and then there is a critic. Since we haven’t really had an atmosphere of criticism, except the Calcutta Film Journal in 40’s and 50’s and Rangan, and Rao now, I can accept your ignorance towards the importance of the process, but do appreciate that criticism is to enhance, and not meant as a vile abuse meant to distract the filmmaker from his course, but to help him along it.
Just a last sentence – We do not demand an overnight change in terms of how films are made, we just demand that a certain ideology is formed, so that thirty years from now, we aren’t still fighting, ‘bit by bit’.
@ anurag
I don’t know where this is heading, but definitely not in the right direction. Every form of a Wave has a predecessor whom they admire or people whom they want to see becoming masters. So the criticism coming towards ‘ New Age filmmakers’ is not that we hate them or don’t appreciate their commitment, but want them to make films in a new manner, that could transcend boundaries. No school of though could develop without constructive criticism, because the world has the tendency to get complacent. People seem to be confused by telling that the films that our coming are breathtakingly- new, I think, we must first be cleared what we talking about whether it is cinema, or the sub-ordinate part of the cinematic mise-en-scene.
That’s why I think and hope our filmmakers look into themselves, just because Indian never had a pool of cinephile/critics that really love cinema and can talk in the right manner doesn’t mean we will never have. And talk about the form that governs cinematic existence. And we hope filmmakers atleast give it a food-for-thought. Even a dialogue would be great. That’s who anything develops.
This is the only plane where we ask, request or want our filmmakers to look into matters, we can’t ask Karan Johar because he is not the one the new group should, could look upto and neither would they bring a revolution. If the Cahier group criticized John Pierre Melville, because he was the forerunner of their wave, and Godard even shot Breathless in the apartment and on the same street because Melville office was nearby. It’s in the same manner we outlining our talking about our point.
Publicity, Marketing and every other thing if fine…Godard did the same while shooting Breathless, he had two journalist cover the entire shooting. But, what Godard was doing is revolutionary. Why? Because when he shoots, he broke tradition ala mise-en-scene so that cinematic expression was new. That is where we pointing. That look sir, look, please, not for our sake but for the sake of ‘cinema’ make the camera yours. So that as cinephile/critic/audience (who are informed) one does not have to think that only Korean New Wave or the Chinese Fifth of Sixth Generation filmmakers can do things. Even we Indians could put our pool of peers into the same pantheon of greats. Because they have the means to do so.
In the end, if you think, I’m wrong at asking the aforementioned things…I have no qualms in believing what I hear from everywhere.. Indian cinema..damn, its all Bollywood. And the history, tradition of our own cinematic culture and world cinema does not exist here.
I am quietly following the discussion on the post by Anurag since yesterday.I believe ,ts always a healthy sign, if fingers are pointed towards someone, for world is full of people with myriad beliefs and pre-judices and on a democratic platform life PFC, every one has equal right to post his thoghts and idealogy. That’s been the case with Anurag and a few fellow visitors, who expressed their views against the article.
I appreciated AK’s response against the brickbat, except comment # 86. well,like so many on PFC and around , I am also a big admirer of his attitude , his guts and of course his work and waiting anxiously for Dev.D.I found it disturbing when AK wrote that all this debate succeeding in creating self-doubt. Please, there is no parameter to success or failure and you know,that you are definitely contributing in your own way towards the progress of cinema , at least in India. Hence there is no point in getting depressed over the critics.
I dont think , i want to say anything more and I am loving it more now than ever (PFC).
Keep the debates going on!!
weren’t all the filmmakers of the new wave, critics for cahiers du cinema ?
The sleep does good to people.
Cinema unlike music and literature is an expensive art form. And often the money is someone else’s. Till we do not find those patrons of art, it’s almost impossible to give volume to your voice. The idea is to bring forth that patron, there is one right now in spotboy, and they also have to take babysteps, and those babysteps will grow in size, with boxoffice, success of one gives confidence to do the next, and that will happen in it’s own time. And all you need for that first is the “intention”. And there is intention, the most incredible thing being that all my future films that i m looking at making , none of that are written by me, some not even commissioned by me. Reason is not that i m in the mood for charity, reason is that these are some really incredible scripts, by incredible new writers, who have a voice so powerful that i feel awe for them. Which is why i say, “go do it”, what are you afraid of. I m not passing the buck on you, i really want that to happen.
@ anurag…
I’m sure spending years writing criticism, in a way, does prepare one to make films, and yeah the Cahier critics were filmmakers and even their 80s writers. Personally, that is something I do believe in and so do the others. Because when we write that Indian cinema has brought a death to the jimmy-jib and murdered the tracking shot, in a way, its talking about cinematic vision.
So not that I’m personally sacred to make a film or someone else shouldn’t be either, the patron is needed, as you rightly put, and as I had mentioned in few of the comments above about Barunberger or Gegores De Beauregard who gave chance to the young Turks to make shorts and then films.
However, it’s great that you giving chance to a new “voice” to develop, and do agree the script is an important component in realization of a vision, but definitely it should not trail behind the text that all I think we should agree upon…and mise-en-scene is important.
@Anuj
Not a big feature film dear, for a start make a short film and I am damn sure you will be in a better position to critic any movie of any format for that matter, it will give you the real perspective of filmmaking and as far as standing for a friend is concerned let me INFORM you the makers of the following pathbreaking films
BANDIT QUEEN,SATYA,BLACK FRIDAY,MATRUBHOOMI,CHANDNI BAR all are my soulmates !!!!
GK
hi.. have written a story about a 35 year old failed wildlife film maker who chances upon a 2 year project to film the clouded leopards (some of the most reclusive and difficult animals to film in the world), and how it ruins things for him but at the same time changes his life..
am not a film buff/maker or anything related to the field.. am an internet entrepreneur.. read your blog on and off, and only think u ll make a lot of sense of it.. cant relate to a lot of the stuff made today too.. let me know if you would like to hear it sometime.. cheers!
@AK
UTV suspends commercial deals from Pakistan
Mumbai, 23rd December ‘08: UTV Software Communications Ltd. today announced that it temporarily withdraws all its plans for dealings with the Pakistan market in an endeavor to support the Indian Government in demanding stricter action against terrorism emanating from Pakistan. UTV has decided not to release any of its forthcoming films in the Pakistan market until this issue is satisfactorily resolved. Also UTV is withdrawing plans of launching Bindass and Bindass Movies, two prominent channels from its stable, in this market.
“Pakistan is an important market and we have the highest regard for its people but in the present situation it is important for all companies to support our government in its demand for strong action by the government of Pakistan against terrorism. We would be happy to resume business in Pakistan once we all see affirmative action. We have so far had a wonderful relationship with our distributors there and it is unfortunate that these events have come to pass and we hope that this matter is resolved between the two governments at the earliest” clarifies Siddharth Roy Kapur, CEO of UTV Motion Pictures.
i read AK’s blog not only bcoz he writes it amazingly…its also bcoz he has done “something”..a Anuj may write better than him..or make better sense…but it won’t hav that effect coz i don’t know wat Anuj has done…
Also AK is completely honest…he writes it from his heart…i can feel it…
i’m desperately waiting for his movie..
for me its black friday till now.but now m just wtchng this..its anurags first film.considered by many as his best work.i dont know yet,just got it.its still buffering…
surfryder.wordpress.com/2007/05/09/last-train-to-mahakali-anurag-kashyaps-first-movie/
Anurag Kashyap
You are completely correct about the need for a patron in the process. A producer, though not often viewed as such, is as important as the director. Brave producers are as essential as brave directors. Hope for the best for your future films.
G K Desai
“Not a big feature film dear, for a start make a short film and I am damn sure you will be in a better position to critic any movie of any format for that matter, it ”
Pls. refer to comment no. 49, 73 and 93, for my reply to this inane message. Lets not reduce making a film to a challenge that people throw at each other. As far as my making films is concerned, a prior reply to Melanie should serve the purpose. We all make films as well. Thanks for the concern, howsoever misguided.
“let me INFORM you the makers of the following pathbreaking films
BANDIT QUEEN,SATYA,BLACK FRIDAY,MATRUBHOOMI,CHANDNI BAR all are my soulmates !!!!”
And do inform me, also, of how the above serves any purpose in the ongoing debate.
Hi Anurag
With all clear “intention”… Goodluck on all your future projects..Waiting for some great films that’ll kick ass
yo anurag,
you r always an inspiration
dev .d ke liye bekaraar hain hum
be happy and live your dream
Hi Anuj, that was not a poem, it’s the song Vienna by Billy Joel. Only the “dot dot dot” were mine. Now that’s a start
Very interesting discussion here.
Ontology is the study of the nature of being for any given concept or medium.
In the case of cinema, like Nitesh said, its own nature is the filmic form (mise en scène, directing, editing, dynamic visual composition…).
Because acting is borrowed from an older medium (theatre) that existed before cinema, when we talk about acting performance we refer to everything that was invented and put in place by millennium old tragedy from Greek antiquity. Nothing new about it. When we talk about screen writing it is largely borrowed from literature, a medium that installed a full set of narrative conventions long before cinema saw the light of day.
As far as film criticism is concerned, the ontological values to be evoked in a review should refer to what makes a movie become real cinema, what turns a literary plot into a visual story, what turns a Broadway stage musical into cinema about dancing.
Also, Satyajit Ray brought to India a level of cinema quality as high (critically acclaimed international profile) as Renoir in pre-New Wave France. But nothing followed from there. You don’t need to wait for this preparatory context… it already happened. You have to catch up with it, in the margin of the Studio-controlled industry. It’s up to you. The industry goes for the easy money, don’t count on them to pave the way for a risky “New Age”.
I think this guy Anuj has a major know-it-all attitude that’s so off-putting. And he talks too much. The fact is by critisizing AK, sucking him into an endless, meaningless discussion, he is publicizing himself. He would much rather spend his time making films or doing something more constructive. And he accuses AK of dropping names, if one counts the number of names this guy’s dropped in his posts, He wins the battle hands down.
I also think AK is doing a great Job of sharing his experiences with us and Anuj would do a great job if he talks about himself and his own work instead of pulling down others. As a movie fan, I am more interested in AK than Anuj/Nitesh because AK’s words are backed by actions(Good or Bad-doesn’t matter)
@Anuj
“let me INFORM you the makers of the following pathbreaking films
BANDIT QUEEN,SATYA,BLACK FRIDAY,MATRUBHOOMI,CHANDNI BAR all are my soulmates !!!!”
And do inform me, also, of how the above serves any purpose in the ongoing debate.
It serves the purpose of shutting you up because you have no soulmates on PFC. Just Go away..!! Get a life..!! You’re eating too much valuable blog space on PFC with Bull-Crap. And I request you this with just as much politeness as you have shown Mr. AK. No offence but why can’t you just stop writing on AK’s blog-posts.
Aby
“he is publicizing himself.”
“Anuj would do a great job if he talks about himself and his own work instead of pulling down others.”
Which one should we believe?
“fact is by critisizing AK, sucking him into an endless, meaningless discussion”
“btw you guys did manage to trouble me.. my thoughts.. created self doubt, hope it’s for the good..”
AK, sadly, doesn’t think so.
“And he accuses AK of dropping names”
Instances? A single instance?
Our stance is as clear as it can be. The dispute is meaningless.
No smoking was way too smart movie for those star crazed people who rather like to see Golmaal returns, Dostana or see srk perform Darde-e-disco on big screen with his “sexy abs”
that’s bollywood for ya
i m 100% sure if charlie kaufmaan was bollywood writer all of his movies would have been Ripped apart by everyone
even if movies like eternal sunhsine of spotless of mind was made in bollywood everyone would have said “yeh kya banya hai salla dimaag khraab kar diya”????
“he is publicizing himself.”
“Anuj would do a great job if he talks about himself and his own work instead of pulling down others.”
Which one should we believe?
Believe both actually. I believe that publicity is good for any film. so what AK is doing is good for Dev D and all it’s patrons. But what you are doing by talking about AK is not good for anyone except you. If you so desperately want publicity then let’s just talk about you sir..?? what do you do..?? Have you made any films yourself..?? Exactly how have you contributed to the New-wave indian cinema. The only achievement I can attribute to you is “you will be remembered as the guy who put a self doubt in AK-A potential greatest Indian film-maker of our time.” Take my word. If AK doesn’t achieve what he strives to achieve, a lot of it would be your contribution. Congratulations..!! His obituary will mention your name.
you are like Nathuram Godse-an intelligent, well-educated brahmin who had a valid point-of-view but he chose to showcase it to the world by killing a lot of goodness personified by Mahatma Gandhi. That guy knew no better and niether do you. So pay heed to my advice and just shut up. All will be well again and potential talent will be allowed to flourish again.
Aby
No offense, but seriously, you just wrote the worst, most tepid, most inane comment in the history of cinema.
@ aby…
Any arguments and you people result in abusing, but abusing want solve anything.
And which movie fan are you? This one makes you sound more like that video game fan boys who are fighting that my psp is better than your Xbox.
If you haven’t read the discussion, please don’t talk crap here. And talk about publicity? What publicity? Not that we fell from the sky today, did we? Just that you haven’t read what we write, where we write, we think we are some bunch of moronic, idiotic kids who haven’t heard that life is hard in Mumbai. Or how about that we never heard that film production is tough, or how about that cinema cannot become a pure form of art because its requires money?
Truffaut was write when he wrote there would come a time when people would judge cinema without having heard of F.W Murnau. Sadly, it’s here already.
Beside, we are not going to be blindfolded in believing any more what you people have to say. Its either you agree or provide a reason to disagree and with all this abuses don’t’ worry we wont go anywhere. We going to be here and, don’t think we want to hide faces behind this computer desk, any day, any time, any place- we are open to talk face-to-face: tea, coffee, beer, food everything on us.
And talk about “action”, just to tell a spade is a spade is action, and spending years behind cinema and writing on it is an action.
You people talk about changing cinema, look, as a viewer if you cant mold yourself and look a skin deeper into the truth and support the growth than imagine the state of the whole country.
And it’s because of the immense love you people to show without critical space that AK has remained AK within the fragments of cinematic convention that is sill Bollywood.
We talking to improve you talking to deprive, but the hour of departure has arrived: be it today, tomorrow or twenty years form today- don’t worry this time once and for all, we not giving up.
@ Anuj
Sorry.. it wasn’t you dropping names. it was your friend Nitesh. About my innane comments. How ironical that you should point it out to me.
@ Nitesh
Yeah I know all about Truffaut and Godard that I need to know. I read AK’s blogs to know more about AK. If you have something to say, why don’t you blog yourself? You sound like an intelligent person. I assure atleast I would read your posts. But for heavens sake, stop pulling-down someone who’s trying to do good and bring about a change.
BTW, since you’ve already accused me of abusing you, which I haven’t done. I might as well do it now and settle scores. “FUCK YOU AND ALL YOUR LIKES” Not good enough..?? Here..!! “TAKE A DOUBLE FUCK”
@ Nitesh
“Just that you haven’t read what we write, where we write, we think we are some bunch of moronic, idiotic kids who haven’t heard that life is hard in Mumbai.”
Read the lines dude. You said it yourself.. Now we all know who you are and where you dropped from.
man why don’t u all harras karan johar on his blog
i bet he will be crying a river like he usually does
anuj i doubt if he can match up to your writing style
Mr Anurag there is no need to have a self doubt
“you will be remembered as the guy who put a self doubt in AK-A potential greatest Indian film-maker of our time.” Take my word. If AK doesn’t achieve what he strives to achieve, a lot of it would be your contribution”
A (sic) potential greatest Indian film-maker has a seed of doubt planted by an insignificant Anuj. Wah! what potential! An insignificant Anuj will contribute to some potential greatest filmmaker’s failure.. Wah! what potential!!!
Anuj, I really admire your sense of control and need to be courteous, and polite all the while dude. It is really admirable that you chose to reason out and substantiate your points with well etched out points, than just saying I agree, or disagree. I don’t mean to preach you, or advise you but a very friendly piece of suggestion Anuj,kindly stop it here. You are displaying this decency in a post where being arrogant has become fashionable.
Have you started your film as yet? ;) It’s high time
Guys, give anuj nitesh a break.. they are not wrong, they may be opinionated and i m pretty sure young, but you can not ignore the fact that they have what is needed, they are bloody passionate and idealistic.. and they have done there homework..
aby, no need to abuse on this platform..
I do agree with many things anuj says is why the self doubt, but i am also the one who deals with my world which i do my best to try and explain. make your points but don’t abuse..
Their passion is not misplaced..
When a debate reaches the stage where one has to resort to abuse means you have nothing left to say.. I would say avoid that..
We all can learn from each other.
I think most of criticism come from those people who like YRF brand cinema
this anuj guy claims to like RNBDJ what a surprise
Anuj,
A lot has happened since I last checked this site.
Whatever you say about people agreeing on ‘problems’ and ’solving them’ is quite out of place here. I still disagree with you regarding the nature of such a rebellion. Any rebellion, starts with a thought. That thought usually goes on paper or is said out loud. This thought leads, hopefully, to some kind of action. What you seem to be asking for does not have any action emerging from it (and here I do not mean that you must do things yourself). You can be a commentator and that would be enough. But tell us, through your comments, what you would like to see? It is great to criticize, deconstruct and analyse everything, but something should be offered as a way forward too. This is no different from people sitting in a cafe pontificating and feeling happy about their command over a subject. Structure it. Benchmark the new-age, if you think that can be done. Any attempt in that direction is going to lead to frustration, because art comes from people. A writer/director needs to want to say something in some way desperately. It’s just that. A great story told well. If we achieve that, we won’t feel the need for a movement because, we are it, the greatness and joy is incidental and emerges from doing what we do.
Good luck to you, with your work.
Moviefan,
You make me laugh. What do you watch – Films or Names. SRK- BAD, YRF -BAD, Anurag Kashyap – BRILLIANT.
Have you ever tried to see what SRK and YRF makes?
If you have then I am sorry you either don’t know what cinema is or you are just here to show off that you don’t like YRF and SRK, as you appreciate a new kind of cinema. You are one of those who is not willing to like a good film by SRK or YRF even if they made one although you might be the first person in the queue to buy tickets for a SRK movie. You just pretend because you want to make yourself superior and feel superior from others and think that you have a better taste than many others. The fact is you have got a pathetic taste. In fact you don’t have any taste because you don’t see films, but the names associated with it. Because the only defense you got in all your posts is YRF is responsible. Why???? Sure they have made bad films. But who in this industry doesn’t?
If you haven’t, the answer speaks for itself.
Santosh Kumar T K
The issue here, sir, is that we are constantly running a risk of sounding like misplaced revolutionaries, who are overtly cynical and skeptical of everything, but it is none of that. We have the same envisionment as everyone here – that of a better cinematic future, just that we plan to keep our eyes a little more open.
Anurag Kashyap
I hope your encouragement of a process of continuous learning initiates a chain reaction. In cinema, if Spielberg, the greatest technician of our times, can learn on the sets of his 15th or so feature that there is a lens, designed specifically, to simulate an explosion, and thus provide an intentional jitter to the camera, then we all have umpteen discoveries to make.
Melanie
“What you seem to be asking for does not have any action emerging from it”
Its ironical, how I am constantly being reminded of the need to wait patiently for a change to happen, and here, some tangible discernible action is being looked for, within two days of my appearance on the site. For us, the fact that we made a filmmaker think, even if its for a second, is aa initial achievement, and there are no qualms in admitting it. That is the ‘action’ that criticism yields.
I assume you address us in collective, if so, for a set list of objectives that is being demanded out of us, we have a manifesto prepared ma’m, we have a structure; the only issue being – its revelation here would completely obliterate any further chances of communication with people here, since they will begin looking at us as someone separate from them, organised within our own set of motives, and if their motives differ from our list, then they will naturally assume that we exist on another distinct plane as themselves, thus deeming any further communication with us, either undesirable, or useless. Thats hardly what we need.
“A great story told well. If we achieve that, we won’t feel the need for a movement because”
I, for one, do not believe a movement as such is completely indispensable. If individual filmmakers can provide us with their own unique films, we would already be looking at a change. But our very present is the most emphatic circumstantial evidence I can provide you with. We are our change, but are we changing?
Moviefan
I love the cinema that YRF gave us for nearly three decades. A denial of the relevance of that cinema throws you further into the dark. No one else has anything to lose. I would be the first person to criticise their blatant conversion of a film into a circus, a freak show at the local fair; the obvious commercialisation which renders most of their present day films soulless. But your study of a film should not be affected by what the trends in the past have been. Each film should be measured and examined for its own intrinsic values, and that is it. Which leads me to a more important question : Have you even watched RNBDJ or merely assume its a weak film? If so, I have no further argument.
@Anuj
I have read all your posts,first and foremost what you have got into is not a debate(watch “THE GREAT DEBATERS”) but meaningless discussion, why ??? because you have all the questions/queries but no answers. Your comments are not offering any strong solutions/answers to the problems but adding more problems.Forget making any film or writing a script from your end ,even if you offer one single original idea here on this platform which can better CINEMA at large we all here will remain indebted to you, I think i am not asking from you now !!!
GK
waiting for Dev.D Ak, good luck and god bless. it’s amazing how your blogs get people to vent our their angst – wherever it might be emerging from.
@ Anuj Malhotra @126
You are making much more sense now sir. Now you’re talking your agenda and your planned contribution to cinema. This is far more interesting read than AK bashing and I’m glad that you decided to take this positive approach.
“we have a manifesto prepared ma’m, we have a structure; the only issue being – its revelation here would completely obliterate any further chances of communication with people here, since they will begin looking at us as someone separate from them, organised within our own set of motives, and if their motives differ from our list, then they will naturally assume that we exist on another distinct plane as themselves, thus deeming any further communication with us, either undesirable, or useless. Thats hardly what we need.”
Do share some of your manifesto and structure with us. Trust me, it’ll only improve your chances of communication here. Maybe you’ll start a movement and all of us at PFC including AK would join you. You’re obviously very intelligent and even AK has admitted that. Please don’t let any fears stop you from doing your bit for Hindi cinema.
@Anuj,
“…they will begin looking at us as someone separate from them, organised within our own set of motives, and if their motives differ from our list, then they will naturally assume that we exist on another distinct plane as themselves, thus deeming any further communication with us, either undesirable, or useless. Thats hardly what we need.”
Isnt that the same thing you think about AK? Are you afraid of being questioned now?? You did the same to AK throughout this forum and you got a constructive response from him.That resulted in quite a healthy and intelligent discussion. I dont see any reason why you think you will be unjustifiably lampooned in PFC for being candid with your manifesto(?). There were odd abusive comments but I think your points were well taken by many of us(including me).
Please go ahead and show us your thoughts. Hope you dont mind being lampooned if its for the right reasons.
@Aby
Yes,i am in total sync with you , it is high time that Anuj shares his/her manifesto and its structure,may be who knows we all may get enlighten together after all PFC supports/offers a learning platform to all here !!!
@Anuj
Way to go Anuj enlighten us !!!!
GK
I still don’t understand what their (Nitesh, Ankit, and Anuj) point is. I’d love to see what they’ve shot if anything. In any case I have a healthy disdain for critical theory.
You know what they remind me of ? A coupla months ago there was a screening of Body of Lies at UCLA. I didn’t wanna see the film but I snuck in for the Q/A with the editor Pietro Scalia who’s won 2 oscars for Black Hawk Down and JFK. The kids were asking him general questions bout his working process with Ridley, how did he start out etc etc…
Until a known blowhard amongs the UCLA fraternity stands up and asks a 5 min long question, proceeds to answer it himself and dares Pietro to dispute it. I swear I couldn’t figure out what the question was and Pietro looked equally dumbfounded. He could only smile in return. I asked one of my pals who got an undegrad in Pol Science grad from Harvard before enrolling in UCLA wtf just happened and he was clueless as well. Some people just like to hear the sound of their own voices.
Plus they called Spielberg a technician so that automatically puts them on my shitlist :-)
@ anurag.
Thank you for the word of encouragement on the process of discussion. Hoping in the long haul of things it should be interesting.
Because, If Bazin can think he was wrong and change…I’m sure we all have lot learn.
@ aby….
Good to know you know your Truffaut and Godard, but I’m sure not for the right reasons and as for dropping names are concerned, I can’t help it, because in cinema they all belong to the same genealogy. So if I talk about my identity and then talk about cinema everyone comes into a larger picture.
And as for my blogging is concerned, you can click on my name here and it will take you to my blog- so you can see we do write. Again…abuse… does not bother us.
@ melaine, GK Desai.
I think its clich'©d to repeat it again but here is something we stand for and would continue to stand, and folks Harry quite explained the difference between story and cinema in a comment above you people should read that:-
Our stance
Indian cinema needs to undergo a reinvention in order to become global identity. To enforce/inform an emphasis on mise-en-scene. And to subsequently question, examine and criticize.
@ chets
That is the point we trying to make. What use this discussion be for most filmmakers who are complacent and not bothered. But those willing to change, and are working it helps to fortify the base so that the other people can be questioned. That’s who history has been witness to any form of cinematic revolution.
But its not easy, if at PFC that we believed had readers who “knew” and we thought could collectively question and re-question the struggle but here people are pulling the curtains down just like they would do in every other place.
@ UCLAGrad
Good to see a film school graduate(If I’m not wrong) and by the remark you wrote you don’t seem different in your own history and background of cinema. Because the Q/A shows that how American film institute are becoming too technical focused and dumb about aesthetics and only once a while few cinephiles who pick up the nuances of both can bring a change. And if you have such contempt for critical theory then I think you should pick-up something else. Cinema would not have reached this stage without critical theory.
This is also reminds me of interaction and reading about how most important film schools are clueless about cinematic idiom and process. And if that guy was lost in his own question that is definitely sad- he could be clearer- but atleast he had the balls to question what needs to be questioned.
And if u have read what we’ve been writing, and I’m sure your more qualified than us, since we neither film school educated or masters but eternal student- cinephile, and I think we’ve been clear in our voice.
And our question.
@ Anuj/Nitesh/Ankit
Guys..!! You are missing the point here. The reason why we all are “fanboys” of AK is that he allows us to flourish and prosper with our own ideas. He’s intelligent enough to concede defeat when he sees a burst of cinematic energy coming forth like he’s done here. By admitting his self-doubts, he’s handed the baton to you. PFC as a platform is all yours now. The movement you talk about is already there, was always there and each one of us including me and you are equal participants of that movement. And it so happens that AK is consciously/Sub-consciously/Unconsciously leading that movement. Like any good leader would, AK through PFC encourages and allows his followers to go ahead, take charge and bring about that change. By creating publicity about small films, He’s shown us the way. It’s upto us now to grab opportunities and open forums like PFC and take our cinema to the world. In the same breath, I admit that some of us mistake his effort as an excercise in YRF and K Jo bashing but that is not the idea. It would be naive to blame AK for it. I think AK is a breath of fresh air thats come our way beacuse he’s given us the space to breath our own. we can do our bit in return by encouraging him and by questioning him. He’ll be happy to answer all our questions. But what you are doing is judging him. You have pre-concieved notions about what AK is and what he stands for..?? There’s a thin line between questioning and Judging as ULCAGrad so rightly points out. Think about it. On a more positive note, I’m very impressed by the Cinematic knowledge of Anuj/Nitesh. My apologies for abusive language used earlier. The Idea was to shake you and wake you up from your critical slumber, so you can join our cause and potentially be the flag-bearers of our new-wave hindi cinema. Don’t let your knowledge go to waste. Please..!! Cheers.!!
Nitesh, about aesthetics.. what are they. Who defines the aesthetics of cinema. each brings his own to the film that they do, rest is definition.
The largest problem i have faced when teaching in film schools wether india or at colombia and princeton, is theory. Too much theory being taught, which is always based on the post analysis of any film. I did one exercise long time back. There used to be a magazine they brought out in delhi, now defunct, The journal of arts and ideas and i was a regular reader, impressionable(which i still am) but then i was impressionable without experience, and i believed it took something really extra ordinary to be a filmmaker. I gobbled up all the theory. It amounted to nothing. I started reading the criticism on a film, then would go hunt for what the filmmaker had to say about his very own film, and trust me they contradicted each other. My theory is that it’s too much stress on theory is what has held back our filmmaking students from becoming filmmakers.
To change anything , what is very important to know is that, why do you want a change? then knowing one’s own point of view, a lot of imagination, compassion, a lot of undefined vanity, and a keen eye for observation. A lot of great artists became intellectuals much after their art, actually all of them. They found intellect after they were trying to, because they were asked to define their work.
For the filmmaker and the artist , the need is to create, it’s for the intellectuals to discuss. A great number of great filmmakers have a huge disdain for theorists and intellectual analysis.
Theory puts you in a hole, between the covers.
leave that part of it to the anthropologists.
lets talk about concrete steps of what one can do to change things. because that is not going to happen with protests and flags and endless discussions. eventually there will have to be a script, money to make it, and the one to do it. the script and the one to do it exists in large numbers, what does not exist is the money. what are we going to do about that. The day you can either find money or various institutions tu put forth things in kind, as gratuity, nothing can happen. Make a fund, where you have access to equipments, no money probably to pay people but a camera(a hi res), a editing setup( a laptop sometimes is enough), people who can pitch in with their own clothes, act for free, locations given voluntary, a kitchen, whatever the basic needs are. Put together a fund, then invite scripts, choose one and go with it. Thats how there will be a concrete change. Something real, not just conversations.
@ Anuj/Nitesh/Ankit
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Change will begin from the self. If you have decided you need a change , it has begun. You change your life, someone inspired from you will change his. When your change will bring success to you(financial, critical or any kind), more will want to change. For that you will have to be selfish.
However much we criticise Aamir khan, he has become what everyone wants to be. They don’t want to be SRK anymore, they want to be Aamir. To bring that about aamir had to be selfish, he created success out of it, today we have decided what he should and shouldn’t do. We don’t want him to do Ghajini, but he wants to do it, he is selfish, he needs success that way too, that will give him more power. After that power it’s up to him what he does with it, because his job is done. He has made,” doing something new and different” fashionable. Now somebody has to take it one step further, and that will only happen with making that one film, that probably wins a palm d’or or a golden bear. Gets the kind of success india has not seen in a long time, because whey it did, via mrinal sen and murali nair, they got no visibility, no publicity(no promotion and marketing) .
And that is where marketing and publicity becomes important. Though it’s a much abused word, but when their is genuine, bonafide success based on merit, everyone should know about it and see it. You want a change, pack the cinema halls that are running these foreign movies, make NDTV lumiere super successful. Let more buyers and distributors of that kind of cinema flood the market. Save your money to buy that one ticket of the next movie that needs support. If we patronise those films, we will find our patrons of change.
Movement has begun, just that one film is yet to be made, and it can not come from someone who already exists. The most beautiful inspirations are when a nobody becomes that somebody.
I appreciate what you people say , but quit saying start doing.
I have something to share with you, it’s what I wrote after watching Ratatouille:
~
When a man’s creation delights me as one, like having a smile gently kissed on my face, which has its trace as an afterthought of words. I just have an overflowing gratitude for the creation which inspires me to create. To be the source, the chef of the food that will nourish me the most. The maker whose creation is going to lead me to the source of the maker. Filled with gratitude that leads to myself. To be able to thank myself. To be able to be earnest n say to the horizon in me, no matter however softly, by looking at it feeling proud (in the purest sense of the word) two words, “Thank You”.
~
Beautiful Kshitij. The two magic words that we don’t say often enough “Thank You”. You’ve created the magic of “Thank you” on this forum. I’m already inspired. So, THANK YOU
@ anurag.
I’m sure cinema dint fall out of vacuum? It has a rich history and tradition, and when I personally look at mise-en-scene of a filmmaker I compare his uniqueness with the rest of the world. That’s how one usually equates ones own identity of uniqueness. AK is unique because we all exist. Else he would not never remain unique or an individual. His uniqueness(aesthetics) is known against all us(aesthetics)
Similarly, its not about who defines, it’s about what is defined and what is to be defined. Every guy who makes a film think he has broken a new narrative or form ground without realizing the fact that what he has done or what he is advocating is already been done, recycled and finished. So his idea of uniqueness is redundant in cinema, it may be new to him and people around him but in the large global context- nothing.
And as for the different style (aesthetic) of the cinematic medium, I’m sure from when the train arrived at the factory by Lumiere till when Lumiere decided that fine some people move here, some move there, and proposed mise-en-scene in cinema. The medium has got different properties. If you ask me how Lumiere got his ideas- the answer impressionism. So his aesthetics were no different from the impressionistic ideas of representing reality.
So the ideas of mise-en-scene from lets say Lumiere to Griffith to Eisenstein to Rossellini to Ray to Godard to HHH and till today has moved because of a major backbones of the genealogy of cinema. I’m sure I don’t need to go in detail explaining the different forms of cinematic idiom.
Beside it’s not about where one takes his influences from that defines cinema, but where they take them to that matters. And its simple rule of the world. Any form of growth would not have taken place if everyone defined their own ideas to live and propose their own hierarchy of things in the world.
I do agree there is too much theory floating that is the reason we are not talking about theory we are simply saying. Sir if you listen to everyone here please listens to us also. Not that we are great, or know something, but having spend years in front of the screen we saw a truth and that you as a filmmaker should know. Since you have the power.
And I’m sure we not wrong in asking you people to look into the fact of the matter at least once. I’m sure it won’t do you that much harm. Beside theories and to shoot films in theoretical manner is something that we don’t advocate. And neither am I holding myself to make films because of theories or the others.
There may be great artist who became intellectual after their art whom I don’t know, but I know and we all know great many filmmakers who advocated a change and later mate films before their art. Starting from New Wave in France, Ray/Ghatak/Sen/ Chidananda Das Gupta/Bansi Chandrapgupta/Suborto Mitra from Bengal in India, Adoor Gopalakrishnan, Govind Arvindaram and others in India, and there plenty more examples that I think would be unnecessary to call here.
I know how great filmmakers have disdain for people who talk about cinema the example being when Spielberg refused Godard advocacy for a debate. And that is also the reason we know why dinosaurs in cinema are disappearing.
Thank for the advice AK, its true one has be self-suffient. And, yeah, its more true that funds are needed. That’s is the reason I wrote and will write again that we need our Baurnberger and Georges De Beaurgeard who believe in things…and that is the also reason why we writing here, because you and me are looking at the expression of the same principle that of cinema.
You have face problems reached there and making films, and we are not taking away anything you have done. But again I repeat to atleast look into matters once. That’s all.
And we never said or say that marketing or publicity is wrong, and yeah we support them. Being one of the first people to write about Palador go for Lumiere press screening, but that’s without a point.
We agree whatever you say about publicity, economy and model. But AK can only win Palmde d or and seriously we want you to win, when AK realizes that its important to either advocate a style implicit in the sense of Golden Hollywood director or explicit like post French New Wave. In short when say about mise-en-scene, we want our directors to be spoken in the same breath and for once look into form as much as content not just technical competence.
And I think hopefully we are not wrong in doing that.
@Nitesh
“Our stance
Indian cinema needs to undergo a reinvention in order to become global identity. To enforce/inform an emphasis on mise-en-scene. And to subsequently question, examine and criticize.”
I dont mind myself working as a Spotboy on any film set for as a Production guy myself i know the dignity of that job.But dude are you even ready to involve yourself/immerse in active filmmaking , for even if we get to read your names in the last credit-roll among the hundreds of them we’ll be happy !!!
GK
ankit and anuj name one good movie by YRF this decade
mohbatein, mere yaar ki shaadi hai, JBJ, tashan, veer zarra, RNDBDJ(yes i haven’t seen the movie and don’t intent to)
these so called “star studded” movies are like cheap circuis where logic and good story takes a backseat
now there is exception for movie like CDI but chances of movie like that in YRF is less than Big Bang itself
and i consider Srk a non actor so shoot me for saying that
I am not against your ideas. I am saying concretize them. The awards are the underline, You saw how water got rave reviews in india despite being a bad film, it was the oscar nod that did it. We need a film, one film that gets that kind of an underline and that will be made by someone who is just doing his own film.
Concretize your ideas.
Get people to be part of it and you start doing that first by sharing it.
Btw read your blogs. V. good but talk about filmmakers no one talks about. Just one Ray won’t suffice. Do not drown what you have to say with unrelatable, examples. Ray has been towering over all film enthusiasts so much that i refused to watch his single film until two years ago. Too much pressure to appreciate him. I like discovering them slowly not because i m suppose to discover them. Today i can appreciate him. But times are different, and if u really want a change, the ideology has to be invisible initially because it can be intimidating. Have a practical approach, then let the ideology flourish through work and not words. I have made that mistake in the past and am trying to learn from it. Take it slow but with solid steps.
@ Nitesh
“And I’m sure we not wrong in asking you people to look into the fact of the matter at least once.”
Again you are presuming things and judging us. what makes you think AK and anyone of us are not already doing it..?? All the big names of cinema you repeatedly keep dropping are just that now-Names.. They are history. dead and gone. They are best relegated to history books. They are not here to bring about that change. So move on buddy. Come in the present. The change is here and happening every second of the day. There. A change just happened. Time will not stop for anyone, forget about turning back the clock into history. The difference is AK realises that and he stays in the present. He actively participates in pushing the cinema clock forward. He may make mistakes but he’ll only live and learn. And if you want the change to come faster, help him push the clock faster instead of just looking into history, quoting hearsay and running in the opposite direction. You’re simply making a fool of yourself by doing that. This is not the place for you to do this. You’re much better off in History classroom. LOL
Oh my god!!
One question…Nitesh/Anuj/Ankit..are you the same person..MPD..hehe
And you have to put yourself in the shoes of the one you are addressing first. First you will have to understand your audience, which i m trying to do now, and then while they see you see them, give them an alternate POV, and back it up with concrete support. Discussions will not bring change, it will just bring like minded people together, and people with strong ideas will always conflict, and will try and supercede the other. It is a human trait, to survive, wether it’s an idea or the man.
I really don’t know but i have understood the importance of trying to connect and then taking it further. I am consciously trying to do that.
When you talk about uniqueness then the uniqueness of indian cinema has always been it’s tradition of songs which i believe has never been used in a way where it is given that artistic platform . I don’t know how do it, i don’t even know how to shoot it, i always use it as a backdrop, and whenever i have done otherwise have failed miserably. Can the indian song become the global artform, or it’s aesthetic be in syllabuses across the world? Can it be a RESPECTED genre? possibly.. How? i don’t know. Just throwing something your way blindly.
Honest request Nitesh/Anuj/Ankit..Please do participate in rest of the posts with equal vehemence…or is it just a mere short term visit?
Moviefan,
“ankit and anuj name one good movie by YRF this decade”
You have already named it. Refer to your exception part of your post. So question answered.
And you are making it clearer and clearer by each post that you don’t appreciate a good movie by the content, story, technique, etc. Instead you look for whether a movie has got a star or not. If yes, it is bad.
Good, You are a Moviefan.
Sourav,
Answer to your question-
No we are different identities. However, we know each other.
Ankit, nitesh, anuj… you know each other, you have an ideology, you are already a team and am sure you guys must have spent nights of passionate discussions on cinema. Would love to know your ideas. Bring them forth. Share them.
Well the Y of YRF made Deewar, kala paththar, mashaal, which i love. But YRF can do better than what they did in last four years. I will give them this much that they are now trying. And that’s good.
Nitesh refering to what you said in comment 31 ” you believe in age old tradition of evidence in form of criticism”
exactly .. one has to create evidence that becomes an example. “example that becomes evidence in form of change”
Just felt like mentioning this. I think it resonates with AK’s idea of actually ‘bringing a change’ than just talking about it.
Three guys from IIT-B, while doing their grad there felt like they didn’t want to be engineers. They wanted to be film-makers as they used to do a lot of theatre in college and in the process their plays had won almost all the prizes on offer. As a natural next step, they wanted to be film-makers.
Problem.
A play cost 20-30Ks. A film costs Crores.
So, they don’t join no company and after some initial romantic ideas like, ‘We would do theater’, ’stay on roads’ and stuff, they decide to make money themselves.
They open a company that would convert the NCERT chapters into very very exciting films.
And their idea gets a buyer. The company is a 100 crore one now. With the marketing to begin in 1-2 months now, it aims at turning itself into a 1000 crore company in a year. They will do it. I know.
Then, they will make those films. What kind? Remains to be seen. But they will, for sure.
I don’t say there’s the only way. But they had a way.
Anuj/Ankit/Nitesh:You guys seem to be opinionated or rather well-opnionated.Why dont you join other discussions and share ideas..if you guys have other designs then thats a different issue altogether.
@ anurag…
Concretize ideas, true we doing that, Ray is someone I discovered lately too, not that I was born with Ray mania, today we write of him as one would write to a father.
If on runs too much behind the audience you will only see their asses and neither we planning to die a virgin in an ivory tower of art. The balance is important. If you talk about songs begin uniqueness element of Indian cinema that owes its existence to Parse theatre and other folk forms coming to cinema
And its cinematic uniqueness was take step further only by Guru Dutt, and if you talk about song picturalization we are not blind to see what Vijay Anaand could do. So obviously I see the redundancy of visualization of songs when all the camera does is move in move out and jimmy-jib maneuvers.
So yes why can’t songs become an important part of our cinema- an idiom. If the world has had great musicals and works, I’m sure we can do that. But our filmmakers suffer from amnesia of history both world and Indian. And that is the reason we can’t make one decent musical. That’s why we act that past does not exist. Perhaps that’s why when one of our songs comes we know we can go to pee now. Because its boring. I see New York in NGC and watch the filmmakers boosting the same locale as part of a backdrop in a song, what use does it make- nothing. Rather its pornographic. If song has to become an important part of idiom, we must go back to our roots and see how did Jatra/theare/Guru Dutt implemented them so that we can think how the context of our own subject matter can be shown and taken in new light.
I know works are important that’s why I believe it has to start from home- u. Maybe discussion can’t change the world. But discussion helps ideas, and ideas( based on shot/revershot) of past and present makes a better movie of future. Whether we plan to become implicit like Howard Hawk or show our bravura of takes like V Shantaram.
@ Desai.
Don’t know why you keep repeating the same thing. Not that we are tired or saying that oh we can’t do this and this bad. The first step of learning practically was when an an art assistant told me that no work is bad, learn to do things. So we not sitting here advocating without any exp. If that is you only vendetta against us.
I’m sorry its pretty futile.
@ aby
Your the first person blocking him from becoming who he is, what you wrote is seriously funny, because it shows ignorance and offers nothing substantial values in return. How can you forget history? And say you unique? Without history there is no present or future.
Phew. I know i am just adding the numbers here but really, thanks Anurag for replying to all the sensible portions and thanks ‘Trimurti’ for throwing long-winded yet meaty queries.
In the process, bahut khoon baha but vultures like me gained a lot in terms of film knowledge and a sense of if a change is upon us, from where it’s coming (or not coming, as Trimurti will say!!:)
(Though the only one left from commenting on this post is Obama himself, claiming ‘I am the change you are looking for, baby.’)
@ Neeraj
Ha ha ha.. There I forgot our little history again. Yes..!! It’s that simple.. As for blocking AK from becoming who he is..?? Why don’t you press the question To AK himself..? I promise if he takes my name, I’ll quit this forum immediately. Now tell me what can you promise.?? Anything..?? The question is do have the guts or courage to do this..??
“The answer my friend is blowing in the wind” – Bob Dylan
Awaiting your reply boss..!!
@Anurag
..my point is acc to me the idea shudnt be to challenge any kinda idea/cinema but to open the minds of viewers to new ideas & if then in the process the older ideas/’type of cinema’ is/were actually irrelevant, then it will die its ‘natural death’..we dnt need to spend our energies to destroy a ‘certain kinda cinema’ or idea that we disagree with or actually is in opposition to ‘our kinda cinema’, by being negative..so I believe that evolution shud be organic..there is another quote by another filmmaker that inspires me at many times – “Saeed Mirza taught me, you can drown in the quicksand of detail and I keep this very close to me. You are not making a film about details. You are creating an ambience, colour, time, and within that you are telling a story which means something to you, now” – SUDHIR MISRA in one of his PFC posts…Im afraid I hv not sounded like a snob :D..thanx..take care..God Bless 
Anurag I remember one of ur interviews with First City(2006 January edition..i still hv it with me & Im goin to quote frm it now)..the magazine called the article ‘The Aviator’..Black Friday hadnt released yet..in that interview there ws a portion where u talked abt ur experience of the same Journal of Arts & Ideas that u hv mentioned saying – “there used to b this Journal of Arts & Ideas that used to come out, and I would take it damn seriously, but I never understood it..there 5-6 people in the discourses & discussions, intellectualising everything from Tarkovsky to…I never understood it.So I ws like what the hell is Tarkovsky,I’ll go watch it..first film of Tarkovsky I saw was Sacrifice..to phir mere ko Sacrifice samajh mein nahi aayi,but film mere ko achchi lagi..i ws fascinated by it..so i picked up the journal & I was like yeh aisa kyu bol rahein hai?..maine Sacrifice paanch baar dekha,aur paanch baar dekhkar bhi Sacrifice aaj tak samajh mein nahi aaya but the impact was so much that subconsciously I took a shot in Black Friday by the riverside thats exactly like the opening shot of Sacrifice”..then u talk abt expressing urself on the issue in another discussion saying “I dont know what you’re saying but I didnt see that in the film.I dont think the filmmaker meant all those things,he was just doin things what he wanted to do”..later u tell abt Journal of Arts & Ideas being shut down & all those ‘intellectual snobs’ in those discussions askin u to write their films & how they stopped intellectualising things and “goin frm one intellectual extreme to saying yaar kuch commercial karte hai” & u go on to say “toh kitna idealism hai sab dikhta hai”..awesome..sorry if I hv done smth wrong by reproducing this part of the interview of urs but I had to ..I related to what u said in the interview immensely & hence the edition is still with me
BTW, I never said I’m unique. Check your facts first. I just one of them crowd and I’m happy being that. One of you Trimurti guys brought the point of being unique to bring about the change. But atleast I know now that you’re the most unique piece of “moronic, idiotic kid.. who dropped from the sky.” I ever came accross in my life. You said so yourself in your post 115. Read it again and LOL
Post 159 is @ Nitesh
@ no rocket science, thanks for sharing this.
@ Anurag
the way you mentioned the need for a “patron”.
I suggest first start with a workshop for producers in basic film education from our POV, but also being considerate to commerce, to let them see a side beyond commerce, Once they are able to see that side of the film, they will realize the USP of their product and begin believing in it and will figure out a way to market it, pouring their hearts into it.
Make them understand the need for a Unique film/voice/language and if it does not exist, what are the larger implications. Show them by examples by popular classics with the business that it’s done and why are they classics without focusing too much on theory.
Make them understand why a director’s vision or a writer’s voice should not compressed because of limited because of market/ star demands, explain them the idea of “free thought” and how it goes on to create the same classics they viewed.
Show them as a film making fraternity, we are also concerned with the commerce of the film, but also the values and the aesthetics concerned with a film is important to us. Explain to them a FILM is a FILM is a FILM. There is not art/ commercial bracket, the need to find an audience etc. Let them not decide the success of a film based on commercial statistics and economic predictions, much before it is commissioned. Explain the idea of a Black Swan in their industry, “almost all consequential events in history come from the unexpected—while humans convince themselves that these events are explainable in hindsight”
You have only mentioned one patron in UTV, we need more patrons like them so more voices are heard by them. We need their support in getting good content out, they definitely are not our enemies. When they realize not to suppress visions and voices, not to run behind stars, beleive in what the director’s vision, a lot more voices and better quality will emerge.
I would be happy to volunteer in some manner for such workshops to encourage better content.
Will throw in more ideas as it matures in my head.
workshops for producers.. that will be a first.. indian producers know it all, is why the problem.. one will have to become a producer, raise money and show success with the alternative cinema, to achieve it.. it’s happening.. with the success of utvspotboy and utv.. others are trying to follow .. wait and watch
Film making eventually has to be about both creative and commercial satisfaction.
I admire UTV’s approach to film making. Apparently they identify a subject, its target audience and then make sure its made in a budget which is recoverable easily.
Others will definitely follow.
@ Manu Warrier
Good suggestion but I don’t think it’s practical. No producer would show up for this workshop. AK is correct to point out that the change is happening with the success of UTV spotboy. Coupled with the recent economic turmoil, a lot of corporate production outfits are begining to see reason in UTV’s business model and are evaluating their own options. I guess it’s always more gradual in the begining. It’ll gather more steam and momentum with more likes of AK joining the cause with better scripts and more dynamic original ideas. I’m very happy to see sanity return to this forum. Cheers..!!
@Anurag
“one will have to become a producer, raise money and show success with the alternative cinema, to achieve it..”
If UTV can bring Syd field for a workshop, if there can be a Screenwriter’s conference because of Mr. Rajabali.. I am sure getting a workshop organised with UTV is no big deal for you..Plus a name like Anurag Kashyap and UTV coming together for a workshop for producers will create enough buzz for the “know it all” producers to come and attend a session organized by a “Doing it all” UTV…get other industry experts from India and abroad to talk on mixing business and aesthetics of films well…Most production houses envy the position held by UTV…if they have something to say..others including stars who are producing will attend..I am definitely sure you can get things rolling for that…you can pull the right strings … what they take out of the session cannot be predicted… but something in mind says this will drill sense into a lot of producers..
Manu..”name like anurag kashyap” does not matter to the industry.. on PFC it might but not outside.. it is impossible until and unless oragnised by the likes of Aamir khan, karan Johar and Yash chopra..
@Anurag
Aamir Khan + UTV + mehra = Rang De Basanti
Aamir Khan + PVR + Amole Gupte = Taare Zameer pe
yash chopra + SRK + Shimit Amin = Chak De
Can’t they see on their own body of work the occurrence of a Black Swan, products that have defied the conventional, tried and tested ideas? Can’t you coax and pull the strings because you are pointing out examples from their own body of work to drill sense? It’s definetly not impossible.. maybe not organised by you, but because you are saying and supported by them, if they are convinced for the need for finding the right content ? Do give it a thought..
“The moment you began thinking I was gone, I am back”
Roadrow
“Please go ahead and show us your thoughts. Hope you dont mind being lampooned if its for the right reasons.”
You need a manifesto with a list to get to know my thoughts? You did not read the twenty comments which I wrote, to express what I think? Do go through them. In them, you will thoughts, and you will find clarifications, defenses, and justifications. Overall, a good read.
As far as our revelation of the manifesto, its a mere condensation of our demands, expressed in a rather elaborate manner all over the forum. Its revelation should, please, not be read as an analogy to Indian filmmakers making good films. Thats a pathetic idea.
UCLAGrad
If you did not even care to understand what the question was, then we all know who was at a fault. The guy got his answer. He did not lose much.
“Plus they called Spielberg a technician so that automatically puts them on my shitlist ”
Thanks. Moving on…
Chets
“HE NEVER WASTES HIS TIME PROVING HIMSELF OR JUDGING OTHERS. KEEPS ON MAKING MOVIES WITH PASSION GOOD, BAD AND UGLY! lol”
That is why he has populated the market with a spree of masterpieces in the last five years, because he treats his critics with disdain.
Aby
My friend, do you realise how criticism evokes ‘action’ and becomes ‘action’ itself? From writing posts at two swear-words per minute, you have begun to write evaluatively, and more cautiously. The transition is something this discussion, and nothing else, has helped you achieve.
As for the rest of the post, its blind love for Anurag Kashyap, and if he lets you flourish with your own ideas, fantastic for you, and I have no debate there. But as you proclaim him the leader of the movement, it is him we will question.
“Sorry for abusing earlier”
No issues at all, we have to develop a thick skin attitude to deal with it, I realise.
“Again you are presuming things and judging us. what makes you think AK and anyone of us are not already doing it..??”
By reading your earlier comments, and by watching AK’s films.
“All the big names of cinema you repeatedly keep dropping are just that now-Names.. They are history. dead and gone.”
Fantastic, so if your past is dead, shall we say you did not have any ancestors? We never got freedom, did we? We should stop watching films from the past, shouldn’t we?
“They are not here to bring about that change. So move on buddy. Come in the present.”
Present does not exist in vaccum sir, it is a consequence or derivative of the past. A man who lives in the present without awareness of his past is merely directionless, lost and completely at odds. Or Leonard Shelby.
“The difference is AK realises that and he stays in the present. He actively participates in pushing the cinema clock forward. He may make mistakes but he’ll only live and learn.”
AK is your God, isn’t he?
To AK Sir, listen to anyone, but please don’t listen to aby. For he will not only cover your wounds when you are injured, he will tell you they do not hurt.
Sourav
No sir, had we been the same person, we would have been admitted for fractured fingers, the amount we wrote.
G.K.Desai
You have made the same point that you made in your last post. Only that you disguise these points as different versions of the same.
No rocket science
“my point is acc to me the idea shudnt be to challenge any kinda idea/cinema but to open the minds of viewers to new ideas & if then in the process the older ideas/’type of cinema’ is/were actually irrelevant, then it will die its ‘natural death’
Brilliant point. I completely agree, and believe a cinema can never be replaced with a new cinema, and that the new cinema will only be a derivative of the old, or a version of it, but never a complete overhaul. The only thing I hope for is that the new derives the qualities of the old, while rejecting its vices, and further polishing those qualities to create a new idiom.
Kenny
We are sure you are sleeping. And we remain assured of your never waking up as well.
Anurag Kashyap
“For the filmmaker and the artist , the need is to create, it’s for the intellectuals to discuss.”
And maybe both of us serve our roles well. We appreciate your importance in the overall scheme, and we hope you appreciate ours.
Eventually, yes, we all want to become filmmakers. But we also want to be sure why.
“eventually there will have to be a script, money to make it, and the one to do it. the script and the one to do it exists in large numbers, what does not exist is the money. what are we going to do about that. ”
Thats a rather simplistic view of the situation sir. Because-:
a) You reduce the entire challenge to the want of money, which is, in a way, saying, that the moment we have an influx of capital, we will become the greatest cinematic nation. In claiming that, you place money above the basic script and the people who write them, and encapsulate cinema into a commercial form. I ask you, as a youngster, is what Amir Muhammed did in Malaysian filmmaking, or Kormine, Sanchez or Rodriguez did in America, not possible here. Creative impetus can not be taken so for granted sir. Money is not the only clog missing in the wheel.
b) If we do believe you, on the other hand, it means that the producers do not exploit untested waters, which is because the audiences do not watch these films, which again, as I said, is a vicious circle. If we have to educate our audiences as to what great cinema is, will we use theories, discussions, or discourses, or will we make films, which they cannot yet appreciate, and teach them? The former, in my opinion.
I request you to please, not only appreciate the importance of discussions, BUT ALSO, to place them in a popular realm, where they affect the mainstream. Discussions in closed rooms, over beers and cigarettes, is containment or captivity of knowledge. You cannot expect that to achieve anything in any case.
“You want a change, pack the cinema halls that are running these foreign movies, make NDTV lumiere super successful”
Again, how do you pack cinema halls? Through marketing in the electric, print or outdoor forms? But these forms are too expensive, aren’t they? So you have to use genuine and elaborate championing of film in a popular medium, which makes people pack those halls.
Some people might pick me for having accused you of using the same method to promote your film, but my issues with your post, though we have digressed too much, can still be found in one of the earlier posts.
“And you have to put yourself in the shoes of the one you are addressing first. First you will have to understand your audience, which i m trying to do now, and then while they see you see them, give them an alternate POV, and back it up with concrete support”
Competely agree sir. We wait eagerly for your film, to see how far you have consummated an approach. But see how, you first drew an approach on paper, or in your mind, and then worked towards its fulfilment. Thats the importance of a founding ideology right there for you.
“When you talk about uniqueness then the uniqueness of indian cinema has always been it’s tradition of songs which i believe has never been used in a way where it is given that artistic platform .”
I am trying to gain as much information about this, but I believe its a misconception that songs are a part of only our tradition. The most popular excuse for the film fraternity when questioned about the inanity of song-dance exercises in our films, is to tell us that that song and dance are a part of our tradition. Its a part of world tradition. Its universal. Restricting it to only our nation is an exercise in narcissism. So the more important conclusion here is : The use of a song and its placement an issue with ALL films, from over the world, and while most nations work their way around the issue, we face it headlong, and so often fail. The answer may lie in how we have built a system of OTS’s and two-shot to shoot conversations, which is a theatrical form; the song, which is an operatic and musical exercise, will have to have its own convention. I personally love the shooting of songs in a Fellini film, which made the viewer a subjective participant, and shot mostly in mid-shots and close-ups, rather than an objective viewer, as the films in Bollywood do, shooting songs, from a safe distance, and placing him in the chair of a spectator sitting at a distance. Also important is the emphasis of European films on the face, expressions and gesture, and that of Bollywood on the perfection of body, and therefore, so much of our film dance relies on how well an actor moves his body(Hrithik Roshan, Shahid Kapoor), rather than how much he expresses through his face(Govinda, Johnny Walker, Amitabh Bachchan), which further enhances the feeling of an objective detachment. Another issue is that of lip-syncing, which decides whether a song conveys a general atmosphere or emotion, of the film, and the characters(Khalbali in RDB, Aaoge Tum from JWM) when the song is not lip-synched by anyone, and of the expression of a specific, particular emotion of the character and only his, by lip-synching, of which there are umpteen examples.
About a song’s placement, well, there is really no universal rule. It will always vary from a film to a film.
“Would love to know your ideas. Bring them forth. Share them.”
We are doing that already sir.
Thanks again, for participating in this discussion. It gives it a new meaning where there is direct reciprocation, rather than some supporters speaking for you. I hope you make great films.
The discussion’s been long-winded, and while it might seem convuluted and torrential, the only objective of it when we started was to initiate an atmosphere of discussion, where one can ask questions of anyone, and no one is beyond the scope of questioning. I like to believe we have succeeded.
There is not much left to say in this regard, but we will still write a lot, a lot more. I hope people did not expect us to show them a revolution by Comment#200. And as one user asked, no sir, we have no other designs. We are merely harmless, innocent lovers of film. The scope for discussion is still open, but not on reiterated points, and redundant challenges. Thanks.
A scholar on Gandhi will definetely defeat a Richard Attenborough on Gandhi as a subject but he can not make a film like Gandhi.
A scholar on Bodhism or on Tibbet Issue may easily defeat the makers of Kundun, The last Emperor or Little Budha but they can not make such films.
A director can make a best film on bank robbery but he can not make it happen in real life and a professional thief will defeat him in this attempt but thief, even after knowing all the tricks of robbery or stealing can not make a film on this subject.
A director may not necessarily be best scholar on every subject lying under the sun.
A director may not necessarily be best debator.
Can PFC be left for simple interaction between filmmakers and audiences? rather than to make it a place for endless debates where one has to win ?
Can PFC be left as a place where filmmakers are not attacked on what they were saying yesterday.
Can PFC be left as a place where films are discusssed and not the personal actions and thoughts of individual in great details.
If it has to be done then can it be done by arranging personal meetings with said filmmakers, if they are ready for such a meeting and discussion?
Though every discussion teaches something but sometimes it loses its worth when things start becoming personal.
wow ouu ooo..wo woouoo ooo………pum bum bum pum bum…!!
@ nitesh, anuj –
“Indian cinema needs to undergo a reinvention in order to become global identity”
.
what is this global identity you speak of, and why is that important?
@RK
PFC stands for Passion for Cinema. your answers can be found under the ABOUT US link. Please go through that.
I’m really really finding it hard to wait for Dev D. I think it’s an excellent idea and I’m dead sure you’ve it full justice, the way you must have made it. I’m one of your biggest fans Anurag!!!
Wish you all the very best, God bless!
@Anuj,Ankit and Nitesh
Open offer in my film-production team , can you all 3 join in as Spotboy,Clapboy and 6th Assistant to my Director respectively ??? I am serious there is no sarcasm involved above so please dont derive any other meanings !!!
GK
thanx fr ur aprreciation bro but when i said – “my point is acc to me the idea shudnt be to challenge any kinda idea/cinema but to open the minds of viewers to new ideas & if then in the process the older ideas/’type of cinema’ is/were actually irrelevant, then it will die its ‘natural death’”..i necessarily didnt mean “new deriving frm old”…”rejecting vices of the old or polishing the qualities to create a new idiom” (which obvioulsy is a good point too which i didnt hv in mind when i wrote that)..my point ws if u believe in smth & if ur belief in it is sincere & is not essentially a reaction to some idea/kinda cinema that YOU think is in conflict with ur idea/kinda cinema, even then dnt do smth just to hv an evidence fr ur conflict to keep the conflict alive(one wud do that sub-consciously of course)..just do what u believe in without thinking how u or ur work wud b or shud b labelled..in the course of time u may end up embracing some elements of the idea that u previously thot were necessarily in conflict with urs,or, u may not end up doing that..thats nt the point..the whole point is ur sincerity towards ur passion & effort to put across ur idea to as many people as possible..here sincerity is a constant coz I believe without that one cannot really learn anything & it is sincerity that keeps the passion raw which I think is very important..thanx again..good luck..God Bless
Mr desai… we would take your offer
1) If you decide to follow the guidelines of imposing a change in mise