Festivals – What Value???
Hi Folks,
This one is for the value of festivals and specifically in the Independent South Asian Perspective. One often hears “I will play at this and that festival” or “I got selected at xyz festival” . This is followed by excitement and then comes the REAL TRUTH……but did you sell your film, did you make money on it or did the festival director pocket that…….in real and constructive terms, was it beneficial monetarily (I mean let’s cut the ego out of here and talk real economics).
The fact of the matter is there are more festivals and less water in this universe. Every minute as I type this, more and more film festivals are springing up….and good for them!!! Now let us concentrate on YOU- the filmmaker, the distributor, the director, the people who have their livelihood on the line here……and the festival director does not…..for the most part their agenda is to be seen with the movers and shakers, as opposed to standing to lose a job or a shirt….if your film get’s picked up or not.
Cutting to the chase I beleive that from a film maker’s perspective the most important things that a festival brings to the table are (a) Sell deals to the theater, the cable, other means of distribution and (b) in case your film is a work in progress, then audience reaction (and that is a very distant second).
From a potential sale perspective ONLY the following festivals have any clout:
Sundance
Toronto
LA Film Festival
AFI Festival
Hollywood Independent Festival
Tribecca
Cannes
Berlin
The reason the above hold clout is because the sales agents and distributors are all there. The important thing to remember is that these festivals are only secondary, it is the market which is being conducted simultaneously, that is of real value add. The market attracts the global and US buyers and that is what results in a real and tangible deal.
Everything else is just awards and appreciation……..paisa, dollar…..nada!!!
The fact that a movie got selected in a festival is not a big deal, matter of fact given all the zillions of festivals in this continent and planet, your film will get selected in one of them (in most cases all you need to do is submit and smile to the festival director)……..the important thing is did it get purchased, was a deal done?
Even the above “grade A festivals” don’t necessarily guarantee a deal. Hence the question should be and the real achievement should be “no that my film got selected in Sundance, but that my film got SOLD in Sundance.”
Cause a sold film, business economics boss, has more clout then a selected film and is the only yardstick for achievement.
Rest is all fluff in the face!!!
And on that note -let’s consider the 40,0000 desi festivals in this universe, 39000 of which are in the US and Canada.
Now show me one film that was sold for distribution in these festivals?
Again I am looking to be proved wrong here, and will be the happiest person if I am. Cause it will mean genuine opportunity for the filmmakers.
To me, more than the festival, it is the MARKETS, which are worth considering. Hence AFM, Cannes (Market, not the festival), Sundance (Martket……you got it)
Sincerely,
Vivek “so stop telling me that your film got selected and festival directors stop telling me that XXXX number of people showed up for the festival and let’s start talking some real numbers and business figures” Kumar
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
There are 40000 Desi Festivals?
Can I get a list of them online?
Agree most festivals don’t directly result in a deal. But most of the films are not that great either. Sometimes a buzz in one festivals carries a film to other festivals & gets picked up later. But by that time the first festival does not get credited.
I think BLACK FRIDAY & DOMBIVILI FAST got a lot of press after winning the best feature awards at IFFLA in 2005 & 2006 respectively. Which helped both the films & filmmakers from that point on. But I don’t this literally both films did not get any deal from the festival.
So its a catch 22 situation. With so many films being made each year, finally the film has to be extraordinary to break through.
American Film Market is a place where a lot of business happens. I think after Cannes this is the biggest film Market in the world. It happens in the LOWE Hotel in Santa Monica in the 1st week of November. I’m sure you know about it Vivek.
http://www.ifta-online.org/afm/home.asp
***********
Last film – Grumpier Old Men (5/10)
Song –
I
I was waiting for Vijay’s response from the time this article came up:)
Film Festival is a place where we celebrate films. If it sells, its a bonus. Most people know that expect for the few top festivals, the chances of getting a deal is almost impossible.
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Last film – Grumpier Old Men (5/10)
Song –
Vivek,
I personally agree with most of what you shared… A small % of independent films get distribution… festivals can only get you applause/appreciation which may not lead to sales/$
But probably this is not the platform for such a post – here people believe if u dont make money, its A-OK.
I believe, you need to make some money for INVESTORS to know you are better than 30,000+ wanna filmmakers with $3000 DV camera and a laptop with AVID/FCP installed to edit…
But then theres no right formula – is there?
Regards – JMD, Manan Singh KATOHORA
http://www.indianfilmfestival.org/
Vivek, I havent been to this festival – but seems like it has great following…
I definitely wanna submit my next to this festival…
Dont you wanna add this to the list?
Regards – JMD, Manan Singh KATOHORA
first time on PFC , an absolutely ill informed article..
there is a lot that happens , you showcase your work, you meet people who matter, IFFLA gave my film the wider reach that locarno couldn’t..
and your list of festivals is from such an inexperience..your list says you haven’t been outside US..
Rotterdam, San sebastian, Carlovy Vary, and Venice for God’s sake.. rome, Pusan is a huge market, locarno, which world you liv in vivek
Manan, nobody is saying that it is ok not to make money out of your film. Of course, you as a filmmaker have a responsibility to recover your investors’ costs. Absolutely no doubt about that. The argument everyone in this section is making however is that festivals are not necessarily the place to make your money, but rather, they are places where you have an opportunity to work on laying out a foundation for your film upon which you can take necessary measures to make your money. Festival screenings help you get press, help you create a buzz, an award at a fest translates into even more press, and they are solid networking arenas. Of course not every fest screening leads to sales. But sales depend on the marketability of the film, and how much effort the individual producers put into the publicizing the fest screening and collaborating with the marketing/publicity depts of fests in exposing their film to distributors. To say that a fest has to be wholesomely responsible for getting you a distributor is naive. Fest gives you an audience and a platform. It’s up to the filmmakers how they make use of it most.
Markets are great for filmmakers who have money, who can afford to rent a stall, throw parties on yachts to create a buzz on their films and so on. The filmmaker who puts his heart, soul, and entire bank balance into his/her film cannot afford to sit at a market.
Also let me add, that if you are a big film and screen at a big festival, no doubt it is beneficial. But when you are a small film, you are at a huge disadvantage at many big fests because your film gets lost among the biggies. Anyone who has attended Cannes can corroborate that most of the Indian films that screen there are usually only attended by a handful of press, and the Indian filmmakers who travel to Cannes. The festivals are too preoccupied with their biggies to spend time on doing outreach for these films. Even for marketing screenings, its so difficult to pull the crowds in because there are 100s of films screening there. It’s upto the producers to decide if they would rather have full houses at multiple smaller fests or sparse ones at a big fest.
Perfect,
Strong reaction to my postings makes my day or night in this pacific time zone. I rarely post to please people so this was just perfect. Like I said, I would love to be proved wrong cause what results is beneficial knowledge to the filmmakers. So that being said here are some counter responises
(a) Great to know we have more real festivals in Europe. Clearly I have lived all my life in Mumbai, Abu Dhabi, London, Toronto and San Francisco, so London apart, Europe is not my strength, but am appreciative of the knowledge gained.
(b) Though am convinced you DON’t need boat parties, room booking , etc to have SMALL filmmakers take part in the markets. There is a concept called the GSA aka the General Sales Agents, they are awarming all over the AFM and can be hired for most films at a commission only basis….so no upfront cost and definitely no boat parties
(c) It has been assumed that this article is for QUALITY films which are seeking buyers, not HOME VIDEO and ANY film, seeking a word of mouth….YOUTUBE does that very well thank you very much!! So the premise that the festival director is not making any money because of an audit of a not for profit, is missing the point….the point being, it is LOST REVENUE for a filmmaker, who has everything on the line…and every ticket sold helps, if it goes to the filmmaker, the fear being a great festival film can net 0 proceeds in the REAL WORLD…always the filmmakers worst nightmare
(d)Finally I have no personal anger with any festival director, in fact a very good friend of mine runs the NY one. I have not submitted to a festival because I have not made a film, am scripting one, but will promise to keep it far away from festivals. Was involved in one – Americanizing Shelley– which kept away from the desi festivals and is quite happy with the net proceeds that have come it’s way, and not lost a single penny to screenings which did not result in a cash flow, cause not sure about you folks, but I am certainly not above paying my rents.
But other than that keep it coming, some more controversial stuff is coming from my way in the days ahead.
It would have been controversial if your allegations were backed up by facts and examples that could be specifically debated or discussed. With only baseless allegations, it’s akin to pounding on empty vessels. Hopefully your upcoming “controversial” articles are based on research. As always, I look forward to reading them.
oh ho Vivek. is it all about money then..dont agree. film festivals are not world economic forum meets or sales conferenes to boost up the sales of something. its beyond that. one thing leads to other. u never know whom u end up meeting and what will happen next. is there anything better than having some great films n filmmakers at one place forget the money for sometime. if it does, its goodya u dont always need boat parties for that. n also i guess none of us write to please people here. for what ??
Vijay…as far as i know everyone knew about dombivili fast before iffla happened.
@Pheonixnu – where was the press for Dombivli Fast beyond the Marathi press prior to IFFLA? There were only praises on random blog entries by people in India who had seen it. Show me one article written from the non-marathi press on it prior to the IFFLA screening date.
Vijay, I want to thank you for your comments. Glad you got here before I did.
Vivek, as a filmmaker and a film festival director, I stand behind all of Vijay’s comments. He made all the points I would have made!!!
But, I have some additional comments to add here. You forgot Point C when mentioning the importance of festivals to a filmmaker
t! – thanks for your note. Points noted, not all agreed, but noted. Will continue with the business side of things since it is the film “industry” and not the film “creativity” and am a proud member of show “business” Also in India they have fought long and hard to get an “industry” status, so it is time that they functioned like one, looking at the bottom line. Regarding me only being a CPA, then just in defense I am also a graduate in Screenwriting from the UCLA Extension and have a Certificate which took 1.5 years and I topped the class with an A+ average. I don’t talk about that part, cause it means nothing unless I have a successful film (written) to show for it!!!
Vivek, the guys above, Vijay, t! and AK do know a lot about film festivals because they are there, conducting them, searching for films and making an effort to offer a platform for aspiring film makers to showcase their work.
My first ever real festival was IFFLA and I have seen with my own eyes, how much difference they make or how much they inspire. IFFLA is small when compared to the fancy names but the quality of the films there was amazing and some of the movies were eye openers.
I remember this one particular movie called “KYA TUM HO” screened at IFFLA where prior to the screening, the producer and the director were literally just by-standers who just wanted to show there movie and get a response. The film was so powerful and awesome that even though they won nothing, they left with a lot of appreciation. The festival director just picked the movie from an obscure Kerela screening and look where its been spoken now. IFFLA brought 10 people to recognize it. PFC will get another 100. This is what festivals do.
I haven’t been to Cannes or Sundance and I don’t know how it works but I am sure there are amazing small films that are shown. Will somebody speak about them… nah! you have Brad Pitt there, who cares!
Vijay is the person to comment on the technical details of your post but for me, festivals are places where you get inspired, loved, respected and humiliated purely on your merit. I have seen it happen. In the market its just economics.
Remember a lot of Great directors got inspired during film festivals. Film festivals have changed peoples lives. And its fun. And whats wrong in having little fun.
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Last film – SOPRANOS – Season 5 Finished!
Song –
This is such an ignorant article…its akin to…ahem..lemme explain
I am the director of an ad-film for a soap company….i make an advertisement….the financier or the CEO of the soap company expects people to switch off there television right after they watch the Ad and go buy the soap from the nearest grocery store….
Such short sightedness
Not only is this ignorant but quite insulting as well…to all those people who work at film festivals…..back up your shit Vivek…
@ravptor… “obscure Kerala screening?” where was that ?
or did u mean a screening at the IFFK? in that case obscure is pretty offensive word dude (for everyone who knows/has been to IFFK)
DPac – It did screen in the IFFK. What ravptor meant by the word “obscure” was perhaps the screening itself. IFFK is a massive festival and perhaps the best we have in India. Everyone knows that. Heck the fest is spread over all of Trivandrum for crying out loud. Ravptor’s comment goes back to my comment about small, quality films often being lost in big festivals. Kya Tum Ho was one such film. Very few there had even heard of this film and the screening was very obscure and low key. Christina (IFFLA Fest Dir.) just walked into the theater by accident because she was looking for another film. By the time she realized that she was in the wrong theater, it didn’t matter anymore because she was so hooked to Kya Tum Ho.
Various strong responses to my postings in the various yahoogroups and then some funny one’s. THis one from an actor (LOL):x. Clearly he would be the one I would cast in my projects since he does not need to be paid. Does not care about the bottom line
— Read on—-
Generally I don’t reply but this response has me laughing for a long time. So now we have got Mahatama Gandhi into this when constuctive argument ideas run dry. So we have fought long and hard to get an “industry” status for our films, but wait we have noble souls here who don’t care about the bottom line. I can well imagine when I pitch my next idea to ADLABS and Studio 18 and face the CEO’s and they want to know the business potential of my film…..but wait…what business potential…the father of the nation and the first winner of the Oscar for India said profits go to hell (and poor dumb me, I thought all along that Gandhiji was all for business, except he wanted the profits coming to the Indians, and not to some merchants in Manchester….but then what do I know)
I’m sure the CEO’s of all the film companies are going to absolutely love my idea….hey it’s a sure shot loss making one.
And what about the actors who need to be paid, including the author of the below mentioned post….wait he does not need to be paid……Gandhi and Ray said no profits…so we will not pay him….cause hey, the film is about losses, who cares about that small thing called money….we are above it all.
My response to this post will definitely not make it to Tushar’s yahoogroup, but I will certainly post this in my SAAFA yahoogroup, so that people employing the author of this post, in their film, will refrain from paying him any money for his acting….why….because…he does not care about money….and the bottom line….remember Gandhi and Ray said so….
Sincerely,
Vivek
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ali Asgar wrote:
OMG! Height of radicalism! I am wondering where would
we put Satyajit Ray! Did he sell enough to own a
Greek island Or he too died just with a sorry ‘fluff
on the face’. the latter seems to be true. Sigh!
there was no Sanjay Gupta to inspire Ray in his era.
And why am I posting on this group when the lines I
type are not fetching me any money? Duh!
Bye Bye…. But wait, let me just talk outside movies.
Mahatma Gandhi too died with a lots of ‘fluff in the
face’ since he neither got awards nor money on
’selling’ his satyagrah..;).
love n light
asgie