Gandhi : Do we deserve such a man among us ?
O! Mahatma,
Many abuse you
while debating
in their rooms,
at the Paan shops
at the corner of the streets
in the hotels
at the universities
Or anywhere else !Ignoring their own weaknesses
“Hey old man !
They curse you —-
You were the person
Because of whom this nation was divided
We are cutting the crop of problems
Whose seeds you had sown!”People don’t have faith over their ordinary thinking
But they challenge your socio-political understanding
They say“You were the man who took back
Non-co-operative moment
Just because of the fact that
crowd burnt 22 policemen ?
Did British policemen not torture and oppress common people ?
But no-
You were suffering from the virus of non-violence!”People don’t do anything for others
But they allege you
“That whole your life
you lived for yourself only
you lived to earn a big name for you!”People who don?t spare any woman
fourteen to forty five years old,
And see them with lust only,
they ridicule your experiments with celibacy,
they make mockery out of you that
“why you had developed a habit to walk
by keeping your hands on the shoulders of
young women in your old age?”Hindu shouts-
“Its just because of you
That these musalmans have started behaving defiantly
Musalmans, who belong to
generations of Barbaric attackers and kings
like Babar and Aurangzeb, Mohd. Gori, Mahmood Gaznavi
You treated them as equivalent to hindus ?
How Musalmans oppressed Hindus for centuries
You forgot that and gave them love ?
You sat on fast unto death for them ?
Hey old man,
This is disgusting
You should go to hell
You were merely a skeletal of bones
a weak person
That’s why you were hiding behind the facade of non-violence
Godse did so good
That he killed you
Otherwise you could have spoiled the nation
He performed a pious job !”Many Hindus make noise -
“People who have born in lower casts
They are born to serve upper cast people
And you called them ?Harijans (Children of God)? ?
Now see the irony
Even ?Harijans? curse you.
You deserve such treatment only.”Musalmans clamour that
“You cared only for Hindus
As you were born as Hindu
And you did nothing for us“.People don?t read anything about you
They don?t understand at all History and politics
But they don?t take time
In negating work of your whole lifeThey curse you and your non-violent approach
”
“British exploited India and Indians
oppressed them badly
still you stressed upon
treating them well
how disgusting,
you were———————————————————————————-
But is it all true
what they say about you?
Why people stammer while
saying it as true?
Why they feel no confidence inside ?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Raju Hirani says an anecdote that when he was making Lage Raho Munna Bhai, with the title, Munna Bhai meets Mahatma Gandhi then a young tea selling boy visited the set and asked which film was under progress and when he was told the title of the film then he said,? Ye Munna Bhai to theek hai, ye Mahatma Gandhi kaun hai (Munna Bhai is fine but who is Mahatma Gandhi)?.
This could be just a marketing gimmick to justify the new title because its quite difficult to accept that anybody in India does not know what the name ? Mahatma Gandhi? signifies or who ?Mahatma Gandhi? was ?
Whatever film was ?Gandhi My Father? but it has an enticing dialogue, ?Gandhi se bada is desh mein kuch nahin hai?(There is nothing bigger than Gandhi in this country).
Gandhi was a master striker and his strokes were made at most appropriate times (Salt march is the burning example). He was able to give punch lines also.
Recall him saying ? Keh do Dunia se Gandhi Angreji nahin janta? ( Tell the world that Gandhi does not know English at all).
His slogan ? Karo ya maro ( Do or Die )? can be said as one of the best piece of copy writing. This slogan has been giving troubles to students of GK over the years as slogan does not match with the popular image of Gandhi- the Pacifist, the follower of Ahmisa, the Non-violence. Slogan looks more like Neta Ji?s slogan but Gandhi had talent to give surprises.
Come 2 October or 30 January and people start reciting mantra that Gandhi is still relevant and even more relevant. People forget to realise that Gandhi may be all time relevant but are we eligible to have a Gandhi among us? Will we be able to go hand in hand with a spirit like Gandhi?s?
Will we be able to see eye to eye with Gandhi?
We the die hard lover of branded things can go on bearing Gandhi and his ideas which were against any kind of imperialism?
If Gandhi is present today then he will be against our attitude, our way of living the life. Gandhi and we will automatically be on opposite sides. The politicians who feel good to celebrate Gandhi birth anniversary etc and give long speeches will wish that Gandhi should die soon as with him living around their own life is not safe as they cant live this kind of life while they are pretending to be representatives of people.
And the United Nations and world leaders who have just given consent to celebrate 2 October as International Ahmisa (Non Violence) day and whoever delivers long speeches all over the world will be disturbed because Gandhi will ask them to have a clear cut stand on Tibbet issue. He will ask them to denounce all china made things till China does not allow Tibbet to live in freedom. Gandhi will not leave us without taking stand against dictators of Myanmar, Pakistan or anywhere in the world.
Gandhi will say to UN and super power like USA that in this economy based era its not hard for super powers to force a nation to not to attack other nations sovereignty, integrity and freedom.
Gandhi will ask most developed nations that when they shout that world should be a free market and when their MNCs can sell their products in these countries and in reality these countries may not even need these products then why they keep reservations about people of developing nations working in developed nations? Why this policy of double standards then? You have products so you can sell them anywhere but nations who have skilled people they cant sell their skill? And these so called super powers talk about one unified market and a powerful organisation like U.N!!!!
Gandhi will be very problematic for world bank, governments of all nations and especially for Indian government because he will certainly favour farmers. When a farmer of USA or European countries can have more 70% subsidy then why an Indian farmer is denied to have subsidy? How a farmer will sustain where even a small scale Industrywalla, who has no respect towards environment, can have all kind of support but he cant have any support inspite of the fact that he still does hard work in his filed to produce food grains so that those who have purchasing power can eat them. Farmer remains only human species in India who can not decide rate of his own generated products and government controls and fixes the rates for them. No free market policy for them.
We and our time badly need a person like him but more than relevance of Gandhi, we have to see if we are eligible for such a person in our era. Otherwise we ourselves will create another Godse to kill Gandhi again.
———————————————————–
Gandhi?s whole work is collected in 100 volumes of books and hundreds and thousands books will be there in fiction and non-fiction category, which have covered his life in some manners. Gandhi is one of the most interesting personality to be adapted on screen but still we have only few films based on his life.
[ Photos of Gandhi ]
Richard Attenborough?s ?Gandhi (1982)?, Shyam Benegal?s ?The Making of the Mahatma (1996)? and Firoz Khan?s ?Gandhi my father (2007)? are the films dealing with the life of Gandhi directly.
Then there are films like Kamal Hassan?s ?Hey Ram (2000)? , Jabbar patel?s ?Dr Ambedkar? and Ketan Mehta?s ?Sardar? and few films on Bhagat Singh which also deal with Gandhi somewhere. Then there is Raju Hirani?s ?Lage Raho Munna Bhai ? where Gandhi ji comes as an ethereal character.
Richard Attenborough?s ?Gandhi? remains as a class of its own.
Since the school days when it was shown to all the students, it was a ritual to watch it every time whenever it was telecasted on DD. Then came a gap of years when could not see the film until last 2nd October in 2007 when saw it again. It was an astonishing fact to see that a blind European couple was also there among many Europeans to pass through the experience.
Almost everybody might have seen this vast epic made on the one of the greatest person of last century.
Film is synthesized in a wonderful sequence of scenes and extraordinary use of back ground music is there. A scene with lot of movement or violence or noise is followed by a peaceful, silent scene and thus it creates a kind of music. Silence between two pieces of sounds. Or we can say it works on the path of meditation where scene with movements and noise works as scenes which first build up the emotions inside the audience and then they do catharsis then and suddenly scene is finished and next almost silent scene brings serenity inside the viewers. Hence this cinematic epic does not allow to be under emotions only rather it continuously educate viewers about Gandhi?s life and his ways of thinking and working.
Background music is so wonderfully used that its not present where its not required and if Gandhi is sitting under a tree with a journalist then viewers listen only chirping of birds. Background music basically has been used to enhance the impact of some major events in the life of Gandhi or major historical events like Jaliyanwala bagh massacre.
Its difficult to cover whole of Gandhi?s life in a 3-4 hour long film and hence few chosen events are used in the film but this selection presents major events happened in his life. Those who don?t know much about Gandhi?s life will get proper education about Gandhi and those who know too much about Gandhi, they too get satisfaction.
Like any great film, Gandhi also thrives on fine nuances. Gandhi is shown as a keen observer of the events happening around him, which many other leaders of his time missed.
There is a scene when Gandhi comes back from South Africa and there is a meeting organised at Jinnah?s residence. Nehru, Patel, Maulana Azad, Acharya Kriplani and Jinnah are already present and Gandhi reaches there. Jinnah talks about direct action against British but its not supported by anyone present in the meeting. Gandhi keeps forward his idea of total non-cooperation before them and they all, except Jinnah, like the idea and Nehru and Kriplani and Sardar and Maulana start discussing the idea and Gandhi observes Jinnah sitting alone away from these leaders. Jinnah was not ready to become team member. Even before Gandhi?s arrival in the meeting Jinnah even suggests Patel and Nehru that we should ask Gandhi to share his experience of South Africa and later we should let him slip in to oblivion.
Relationship between Gandhi and Ba has been shown beautifully.
In one scene Gandhi is talking to Nehru and policemen come to take Gandhi in to prison and Gandhi while going with police men, looks towards Ba who is standing at a distance with Meera Ben and other women.
Ba is a companion from whom Gandhi takes energy, assurance and faith.
It?s a touching scene when Ba dies and Gandhi is sitting besides her bed.
Then that scene where a judge stands up when Gandhi enters his court room and others follow him. Film slowly estbalishes character and importance of Gandhi as it was established in his real life also.
Even if film was not getting any Oscar, it was one of the greatest film. Hardly so many actors resembling to the real life characters can be found in such a vast epical cinema. Performances of the actors taken in main characters can be their best ever.
Not that film was made without any problem. Film saw lot of problems. It was planned when Pt Nehru was alive and it was finally started making when Indira Gandhi had become PM again in 1980. Around 0.4-0.5 M people had attended the funeral procession shown in the film.
Audience who have not seen it yet can be termed as unfortunate.
Gandhi had lived a vast life and there is always a scope to cover some part of his life on screen. Hope in future people will make more and more films on Gandhi.
———————————————————
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
RK =d> =d> ….
@RK Sir very insightful article… thanks ^:)^^:)^
aap ke liye movie “PHIR SUBAH HOGI ” ki kuch lines…
maanaa ke abhee tere mere aramaanon kee kimat kuchh bhee naheen
mittee kaa bhee hain kuchh mol magar, insaanon kee kimat kuchh bhee naheen
insaanon kee ijjat jab zoothhen sikkon mein naa tolee jaayegee
wo subah kabhee to aayegee…
RK ji,as always,another article from you with great depth,thought provoking…… =d>
Gandhi is a good concept for the weak who can’t do anything but sit and watch under the guise of “non-violence”. I’m sure he probably never intended it to be this way, but face it – he’s created a monster called the “Indian”
Great article sirjee, thanks for reminding me of what i should not be forgetting.
Firstly, the poem. Great way of expressing negativity. Was looking for that fourth/fifth line of refuting the premise of established notion in the first 3/4 lines. It never came, maybe the norms just don’t hold.
Great insights about the film. After coming to US, I did rent the entire DVD edition of gandhi to watch everything and some of the stuff on it is fascinating. Especially how they did the funeral procession and the original footage. Apparently, because of the petals being thrown at the face, the body was in fact twitching but the cinematography and the sea of people was so overwhelming, that, no one notices the shot.
For me though, its reliving the past as a part of my present.
Agree with Gandhi being relevant all the times. A fe filters here and there and a few modifications to the practices he followed but in the essence, his ideals still hold good…
Thanks Rk, keep this kind of articles coming. This is important stuff…
Good article. Should get hold of the movie and watch it again.
Gandhi and his idealogy remains important till today but…well these lines by Jagdish express what I want to say:
Apne hriday ka satya apne aap humko khojna
Apne nayan ka neer apne aap humko pochhna
you can find the whole poem here:
http://www.anubhuti-hindi.org/kavitayen/jagadish.htm
RK,
Thanks for a fantastic article.. Every article of yours makes PFC a better place..
btw a significant miss in your list is “Maine Gandhi Ko Nahin Maara”.. simply one of the best on Gandhi..
good.
in gandhi casting was very good. and among indian characters so many actors were seen in small roles. Pankaj Kapoor was there:d
is it relevant to make a post on Gandhi on a cine space like PFC? smallest film star draws more crowd than Gandhi from people. Sunday, Goal, Hey Baby, Shoot out will draw more audience than Gandhi. Farah Khan will look more wise while sitting with Karan Johar and SRK than Gandhi. What is relevance of Gandhi? Is not he outdated in this era of business, psychophants, corruption, terrorism etc etc;):(#:-s
i agree with pavan. the list has to include Maine Gandhi Ko Nahin Mara, because of the powerful way it conveys how we have forgotten Gandhi, except for brief periods like post-LRM when everybody – talk shows on TV, man on the street, the media – started talking of Gandhigiri, only to forget it till “Chak De, India!” became the next popular filmy slogan. RK’s piece conveys this quite well.
we can curse him,,,but that time crores of people came out of our own houses…at his single call…can we have a leader like him in coming future////i dont think so
@Anand (1),
Thanks for liking anything/something above.:)
and now BEWARE, I must warn you -
As per PFC’s policy, its not liked when some one uses only emoticons, without writing comment or write only one word or two words,(for ex, good, great, bad, I second it etc etc).
Motive behind this policy is to motivate commentators to write their views on the subject given in the main post. so that purpose of an interactive site is fulfilled.
For once Censor board chief may miss and may pass an objectionable scene in the film but PFC editors have sharp scissors. So start giving proper input.:d
@Shatru Bhaiya,
for (Physical) Gandhi, subah sham dont matter and rest for his ideology and life story,
for people a sasta sa sher hai-
“Mana kisi kabil nahin hain hum
jakar unhe poocha jinhe hasil nahin hain hum”?
[Perhaps we are good for nothing for you
But did you ask those to whom we are not available]
Those who never had Gandhi in their countries feel that absence.
—–
Sahir’s hope about that fruitful morning is not died and it will never die. Individually its with everyone though on different level. But we live with the hope of our kind of morning.
—–
In contemporary creative scenario people are there who can write
-Koi diwana kehta hai, koi pagal samajhta hai,
Magar dharti ki baichani ko bas badal samajhta hai.
[Some call us passionate, some take us as mad
but only clouds can understand the wriggling of the earth]
Mohabbat ek ehsason ki pawan si kahani hai,
Kabhi kabira diwana tha, kabhi mira diwani hai.
[Love is the pious story of feelings
long ago Kabir was madly in love and Mira also followed the madness]
Yahan sab log kahte hain meri aankhon mein ansoon hain,
Jo tu samjhe to moti hai, jo na samjhe to pani hai.
[Here people say that tears are there in my eyes
if you see them then they are valuable like gems and if you cant see then they are water drops]
So like love, where so many get positive life and so many get negative life but still one has to live with his/her own kind of love, that hopeful morning is always alive with us.
Thanks a lot for reminding Sahir saab in such scenario.
And it reminds me something. To do is always better than not doing at all.
@Arun ji (3)
Thanks sir for your kind comment.Hope by now many thoughts are provoked (not Jagmohan Mundra ones):)
please share some of them.:)
@Ravoptor,
Thank you Sir for your kind and detailed and insightful comment.
Re: Poem, Norms remain absent in the forest:)
(meaning later)
Hope you also might have observed that the Gandhi film which we used to see in Cinema Halls and through DD was bit different and longer than the film now available on DVDs or present in west.
Old Indian version had many extra scenes.
At present I can recall two such missing scenes.
In Indian version- Gandhi, during his India tour, after coming back from South Africa, sees a half naked woman sitting at the bank of the river while he is sitting upside. He puts his shoulder cloth in water which reaches to that lady.
In another scene, Gandhi says to Ba once that your father did not know that he was giving his daughter to a very stubborn person.
Yes, to watch Gandhi is to visit the past and to realise the era, ground and atmposphere in which we are living now, was different at that time and how a man continuously purified him. Tried to affect his era in positive sense and worked very hard to get his goals. He tried very hard that along with him people in his surrounding also purify.
Raman Maharishi and Aurbindo both were alive then, doing different things and Gandhi complemented their efforts.
@Neerja (6),
Thanks for the link of a good poem. Its true, truth, courage, knowledge all are valuable when they live inside us and they are independent and they are not borrowed but they are our very own, earned by us.
Hope you get the film soon and again go through the vast experience of rewatching it.:)
@Pavan (7),
Sir, what I should I tell you. Blame Urmila Martondkar for this missing. I typed its name and then Urmila Martondkar sat on my mind that she was the daughter of Anupam Kher in the film and then her presence reminded me Manoj Kumar and Mahendra Kapoor and I went in to first amnesia which leaded to dementia (or vice versa, cant recall exact order) and could not recall whether Gandhi as a character was present in the film or not. So under this confusion I deleted the name.
I still cant recall it. If Urmila continues to act as troubled characters, I will have to stop watching her films. Such things are affecting memory.
Thanks for your kind comment.
@Krishn(8),
Yes, casting was apt. and true many actors, mainly those who were starting their career at that time, were there in the film in some role. We can see there not only Pankaj Kapoor as Mahadev Desai, but Supriya Pathak and Nina Gupta as Gandhi’s grand daughters. Then Mohan Agashe and Alok Nath were there in South Africa. Tom Alter was the doctor in Pune who attended BA in her last days. Anang Desai, KK Raina, OM Puri etc were there. Many I am not able to recall at prseent. and Om Puri in just 2 minutes scene, showed his that time talent. what a rage he shows.
@RK Sir,Thanks for sharing Kumar vishwas lines between us…
Completing first poem of kumar vishwas.
-Koi diwana kehta hai, koi pagal samajhta hai,
:)
Magar dharti ki baichani ko bas badal samajhta hai…
main tujhse door kaisa hu tum mujhse door kaisi hai
ye tera dil samjhta hai ya mera dil samjhta hai.
sorry RK sir…point noted….:)
@Utpal(10),
Thanks for the comment. Re MNGKNM, have mentioned in comment 17.
I have little different view. Personally I have not observed that people dont mention name of Gandhi in their talks. Gandhi name comes any how in the discussion, no matter it comes through his image on 500 Rs note but it occurs. Its again different that Gandhi remained a mere name to which famous MG roads are dedicated in so many cities and he is father of nation or when union leaders, student leaders or political leaders take his name in their speeches. People dont follow his ideals because individually they can not follow. To follow individually one has to be very courageous. But time and again whenever someone gathers courage to stand against the system or wrong doings he takes resort of Gandhian ways of protest because still a moral value is attached with this method and person knows that govt.machinery cant go for extreme against him and if they go then people will have sympathy with him. good or bad people still sit on hunger strike against the system. Not that there has not been misuse of this method but still this is not harmful to society as violent ways of naxalites etc are.
May be Filmi people recalled again Gandhi through LRM and new McDonald and Multiplex crop could again know the importance of Gandhi but on an average whenever whereever someone has to oppose an oppressor and he knows he is alone in the fight he follows Gandhi. First he gathers courage inside and then go out. Nelson mandela, Aang Saan Soo ki etc all followed this path and people will be following this. Its a proven path.
Not taking away any credit from LRM or Chak De India, but when we give too much credit to films then it looks like media propaganda as thats a matter for channels to discuss. truth can be slightly different then discussed inside the studios. Its like saying so and so film brought back particular genere of films.
Those who needed Gandhi was always in their vicinity. Yes like everything has become fashion now so may be talk about Gandhi as something may have become IN due to such films.
Gandhi may have become a COOL DUDE for “yo yo generation”:).
Not making mockery of anyone. Just trying to say that Gandhi is a name and it occurs in reality when its needed and rest all is false. To repeat Gandhi name subah dopahar sham is not going to help anyone. A gang will again be produced which will eat on this newely generated fame of Gandhi.
People criticise Gandhi because of ignorance but Gandhi is never out of focus. To be associated with Gandhi’s name still give a reputed and safety cover to politicians.
someone should make a movie completely dedicated to baa…in gandhi my father her character was well written and very well played by Shefali shah…
@hemant(11),
we dont want Gandhi, Bhagat Singh or any kind of rebellion spirit around us because they dont put fingers on outsiders only they point out everybody who ever is doing wrong. Gandhi etc will not come again because we dont deserve and we are not ready to bear their burning passions.
You will not like your son to follow Gandhi as its hell risky.
@Shatrughan (19),
Is this first poem of Dr Vishwas? Because years ago when first I had listend to him when he had visited our Institute then he had not recited it. This though can be his most popular poem.
There he had recited something different and if memory is fine then one was related with Pakistan, Kashmir and Benajir Bhutto.
One other was there, which I can recall lines, but will mention some other time at appropriate place.
What a wonderful poet. After Dr HariVansh Rai Bachchan and Neeraj he is the poet who can recite his poems in such a mesmerising way.
He deserves a post on PFC. Its strange Hindi film industry has not seen him yet. These guys in bombay seem to be ignorant about talent living elsewhere.
@Krish(9),
May be or perhaps its certain name of Gandhi will not generate interest in readers as names of film stars, no matter how big or small they are, generate but if more than 200 people click the post in less than 24 hours (even if we guess that actually only 50 might have read the post) and some 7-8 took out time to comment then its not a bad average.
Gandhi is not comparable to anyone in the world, so it does not matter film stars or these sport stars are bigger icons for todays youth. It really does not matter. No youth icon himself or herself will be daring to think that s/he has become bigger than Gandhi.
reasons for less number of readers may depend on several other factors
(1) I have read internet connectivity in India and Egypt has been affected badly in last few days and this will be there for few more days, so it can be reason that not only Gandhi but any topic on PFC will see less traffic.
(2)When an author writes a post then for readers he is standing between them and subject and sometimes it may affect the desire of people to comment. Suppose a post is made by a star then it will generate huge attraction, then quality etc dont matter.
(3)Like sound frequency, posts also have frequency which may appeal to those only who come in that bracket only. As we cant hear less than 20 Hurtz and more than 20000 Hurtz, in same way we cant read posts made beyond defined(for us and it varies individually) limits. Language, style, matter all things affect readership. Some enjoy posts which look weird to many others but those posts come within their bracket of acceptable frequency.
——————–
Its a big relief that PFC is a place and has space where Gandhi and many topics can be mentioned though sometimes topics dont strictly match with cinema. But such jiant characters are always fascinating for cinema people thats why we see biopics.
@Anand (22),
surely Ba makes an interesting character and a film may discover her and lives of her sons. a homely affair. and then she was the support because of whom Gandhi could remain strong outside of the home. She is half Gandhi.
@Vikkesterr babu,
If you may explain first part of your wise statement. as of now its like riddle, I for one cant understand it. its like matehmatical puzzle, so if you give me keys for this.
second Gandhi created a monster called the “Indian” -
Do you mean Red or American Indian? But Gandhi never visited america and do you have any idea that he donated seeds so that they could be imported there later?
Or you mean original Indians living in India?
Gandhi was father of four sons only and their families have been doing great job since then.
@PLAYBACK,
Please you take a lead to throw them up. To shoot down, crowd will follow in extempore manner:)
Forget what Gandhi would say about Myanmar or Pakistan or China or the USA…
What would Gandhi think about India today and what is happening in India under the label of Progress…Nationalism…Development. Exactly what I think about it.
It doesnt take a Gandhi to note what is going wrong in our country. It does take a Gandhi to gain enough popularity to actually have people hear you when you point out the problems.
But then, as far as my humble opinion extends, I never thought Gandhi actually DID something to improve anything.
I mean, recognizing a problem and solving a problem are two very different things. And really, were Gandhi’s philosophies of living really reasonable? Do you really have to go all the way to the extreme of minimalism to be a good person or to make a difference?
Why dont we contribute to how Gandhi made a difference ? … Individual contributions …Throw them up & shoot ‘em down ! …lets reach a consensus !
@Dal Fry with Mutton Biryani on the Side,
you are right, recognising a problem and solving a problem are two different things and there can be many problems which have no solution in a given time.
For example: your wonderful id is a problem but I cant solve.
Dal Fry with Mutten Biryani
or Dal Fry ( with Mutten Biryani on the side)
or Dal Fry with Mutten Biryani on the side
(which side? – pool side, beach side, left side, right side, this side, that side?
—
Do you really have to know whether Gandhi’s ways made a difference or not? They dont affect your life. Your own ways make difference around you or not- this matters.
you know what is not necessary to be a good person. and this is the necessary thing.
Hope you do things which bring improvements around you atleast for you.
Forget Gandhi. This is not necessary that medicine made for people suffering from cough will work for others also who suffer from acid.
Thanks for lending in this restaurant where you can have Dal that too without frying. so no mutton chicken.
:d
RK,
Nice read especially liked the beginning.
Also, Maine Gandhi Ko Nahin Mara kaisay bhool gaye!
On 30th Jan I noticed a curious phenomena that may have a lot of explanations, but is curious nevertheless. My little blog found a lot of traffic for a post that I did on Nathuram GodseUN:F [1.7.5_995]
Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
RK
… I admire u. But I would like to be the passive spectator
@Vinayak(31),
Are, for MGKNM missing, please see above on (17).
Gandhi is almost known to people that he was a good fellow. bring some spicy matter from his life and people will make multiple hits. like last year a book was there covering his affair.
People are always more interested in knowing more about Burai, evil. is This not strange that given an opportunity actors like to play character having grey shades than a goody goody character as his life will be tasteless, eventless.
We are living in era of terrorism, Godse will get more hits as reading about him appease some violence inside and satisfy curiosity factor also. Investigative journalism. Mind afterall demands knowing more and more.
Make an article prasing Gandhi and it will earn avoidance.
Make Gandhi a villain and it will generate a huge interest.
–
re film, yes there could be factual errors.
Its a big big film inspite of any such weakness
“The evil that men do lives after them”
“The good is oft intered with their bones!”
Mark Anthony — Julius Caesar — Will Shakes
@Playback (33),
that escapism will not do. You have to throw first stone and there was a sher kind of things given in an article on Gandhi
Kaun kehta hai asman mein surakh ho nahin sakta
ek paththar to tabiyat se uchalo yaro
[who says hole can not be made in sky
throw a stone with full dedication):)
@Vinayak,
As you might have read the book on Godse. Do you have any Idea about his descendants?
He was part of a full family. his brother Gopal Godse had written a book on him.
@RK,…
Aaj kal Mudda Uchhaltey hai,
Pathhar kya cheez hain yaaron !
Par ozone layer ka fikr karo !
Aasmaan par pathhar mat maro !
Adaab Arz hai !
that is officially a classic Playback…
good one…!
@ Dal Fry,….Thank you ,…Thank you,…
Mutton Biryani mein kha loo ? … Bhukh hai ! Masses ko mass khaaney ko nahi milta !
@Playback,
Calcium oxide will not react with Ozone and it will be a mechanical hole only which will again be filled automatically. Dont worry about Ozone layer its already raped heavily by its savers and its getting raped continuously.
Rakshak hi bhakshak bhi hain.
You throw stone, they may hit some satellite left for spying purpose:)
“Le Khaa”
and he throws the roti on Gandhis chest
Love this line from “Gandhi”
by Om Puri
@ RK and others –
I wrote a juvenile piece of conspiracy theory around bapu a few years ago. I still had it in my email outbox.
Here it is for yours and everyone else’s disgust, enjoyment and general timepass. WARNING – LONG!!
You think you are pretty conspiracy savvy?
- There was a second shooter for JFK. Check.
- The US never landed on the moon. Tell me something new.
- The Holocaust never took place, it’s all a Zionist propaganda to steal land away from the Palestinians.
- 9/11 was a US Govt. led attack. Osama ho Akbar.
- Monica Lewinsky’s big mouth was a distraction against something somewhere. Whatever.
- Taj Mahal is actually a monument for Shiva and has nothing to do with love or Mughals or muslims! Om Namoshivaya.
NOW, hold your breath for the biggest one. Atleast as far as we Indians are concerned. A conspiracy so powerful, so far-sighted that it is genius. Read along impatient one. I am getting to the juice. Ever wondered why Ben Kingsley was so convincing as Gandhi?
Here it comes…GANDHI was a British Dude that tanned easily. The first covert operation by an organization that would later become MI-6. Only the Queen, the British PM, the Viceroy to India and a few others in the organization knew. When M.K. Gandhi’s identity was created with background et al, he was all of 10. His real parents had died on the voyage from England to India and he was the perfect candidate.
When MK was created, they had no idea they would have such powerful uses for him as we are still in the late 19th century and any talk of the sun setting on the empire was scoffed at. Yet there were those in the Empire that knew the Mutiny was not a one off attempt. The natives would get restless soon. They decieded to pre-empt much like the US and UK do today. It was a clever strategy where they could channel the country’s unrest through a benevolent protest that they could control. SATYAGRAHA, CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE and NON-VIOLENCE were born.
Ever wonder why they never killed him? They hung Bhagat Singh, assasinated Azad and all the other real revolutionaries that posed any threat.
The Brits knew by the end of WW1 that it would not be tenable to run the colonies for too much longer. People back home were talking about fairness etc while at the same time enjoying their Kohinoor diamonds and 1 pence banyans courtesy Indian cotton, and Indian workers in desh as well as all the other colonies that employed Indians. It was widely accepted that India was the jewel in the Queen’s Crown. The business of running a colony was proving too expensive though.
They had learnt well from their experience in America. They had to do something else.
Self- rule. Brilliant! You can govern yourselves but you will pay taxes to the Queen. Don’t have to deal with the mess of governance, while they could run the country from afar using either Gandhi since everyone loved him or use him to install a puppet regime that would kiss the Queen’s feet. All’s well.
Holy fuck, what’s that around the corner. Hitler? Shit. Ok, let’s postpone this for a little bit while we deal with the nuisance of WWII.
“Gandhi ol chap, you have to get Indian troops to fight for us.”
“This double life is killing me. And all that starving? Is that necessary?”
“So you will take care of it then?”
“I want to know my real name. You owe me that much.”
The others in the room look at each other and the Queen with the straightest face and stiffest lip says, “Mahatma.”
Gandhi breaks down on the floor, sobbing. They watch him quietly. It ceases to amuse them after a few seconds. As they leave the room, the PM turns to BOB CRISTO and says, “He smells like a damn coolie! Get him a shower.”
Ever the puppy eager to please his masters, Gandhi offers, “Some of the other prisoners may be onto me. I told you not to throw me in the slammer. I was whiter than Nehru when I came out.”
The Queen is impatient. She wants to get to her tea. Bob declares, “We can’t blow your cover now. We’ve come too far to quit.”
“Then get Bose off my back. I think he knows.”
“You’re getting paranoid Gandhi, or should we call you Bapu?” Peels of laughter from villain Angrezs. “We’ll take care of him.”
5 years later, the war is over, Bose has disappeared and there are no real challengers to British might since all the freedom fighters are dead. And the whole nation has been brainwashed by Gandhi. Just a few loose ends to tie before the British can show the world their generosity by “giving” India its freedom.
Nehru was more British than the Queen herself so no worries on that end. But the stress of working as a field operative for 60 odd years had taken its toll on Gandhi. One night, he bonded with Jinnah over some Glenlivet. Gandhi had to talk to someone and suspecting that Jinnah with his fair skin and London Law education (not unlike himself) may be another operative, spilled the beans.
Just the moment Jinnah was waiting for. He was White on the outside and all Brown within and knew a good hand when he had one. He played his cards well and got Pakistan for himself. The Brits knew that Gandhi was getting senile and had to be taken care of so that their secret dies with him.
“That chap looks like he is upto the job. Who’s that darkie?”
“Godsey.”
“God says indeed!”
***
Circa 1982. And the Oscar for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Original Screenplay, Best Actor, Best Cinematography, Best Editing, Best Costume, and the mother of all awards BEST CONSPIRACY EVER goes to…..(drumroll) GANDHI. p.s. Gandhi DID NOT win the Oscar for Best Make-Up. That Oscar went deservedly to Quest for Fire since there was no makeup used to make Kingsley look like Gandhi. I rest my case.
dabba….that would be baaap of all conspiracy theories…..:)
RK bhai – awesome poetry and prose. shashtang pranaam!
dabba – read the matarese circle and some casanova 99 didn’t we? wheels within wheels. lol!
@krishn(9)
“is it relevant to make a post on Gandhi on a cine space like PFC?”
Did you read the post?
“What is relevance of Gandhi? Is not he outdated in this era of business, psychophants, corruption, terrorism etc etc”
Have you read Gandhi or anything that interprets how his ideas fit into modern world or how they can be adapted?
@Everyone(who is interested)
There is a very small book called ‘Hind Swaraj’ or ‘Indian Home Rule’ written by Gandhiji himself on the ship when he was coming back to Bharat. It was immediately banned by the British government.
All ideas in the book may not be relevant today but it helps a great deal to understand Gandhi.
It’s written in a question-answer format. Originally written in Gujraati, it was translated into other languages. It is available here in English:
http://www.mkgandhi.org/swarajya/coverpage.htm
RK,
@ your comment 17…I know the feeling:)
Nathuram was born in a Chitpavan Brahmin family and grew up to be an Agatha Christie addict.
Just read a wiki entry regarding Egyptian origins of Chitpavan,had he known the story, the map of Akhand Bharat would have included Egypt too.
dabba,
Sometime ago in an editorial Vir Sanghvi bemoaned
lack of conspiracy theories in India. I wonder if young India could take the load of these theories. In those days there would have been a lot of buyers for your theory and after all these years people would have been earnestly discussing if Gandhi really was an English (a)gent with a taste for goat’s milk and oil massage.
-0-
Thanks to great google…a search for Godse also gives Mugdha Godse in top results:)
@Shekhar (42), A very effective scene indeed. Om Puri was in elements in those years. He played an angry man so impressively in those times. Without saying anything he showed height of anger in Aakrosh.
He is not getting roles where he can show his full talent and hence give average performances these days. Last good was in a small film “Stop” where he played a drunkard theatre actor. That was his territory. small but effective role.
@wb(45)
Thank you brother for your kind comment.
@Vinayak (47),
are bhai, I asked about his family left after his death. I had read something but cant recall correctly and cant be sure about authenticity of the information given there so I asked if you know what happened to his family later.
or what they do now if they are alive and healthy.
It cant be an easy life for the members of a family whose member have killed a person like Gandhi. Leave alone initial years for his Brothers when he was busy in justifying Nathuram’s ideotic and criminal understanding about the situations but what after 1969, when Gandhi centenary was celebrated. If any info. we can get.
RK,
One of the argument of Nathrum Godse was that “Gandhiji was for the entire humanity then why was he against the British empire …weren’t they human ” …
The counter arument will be that Gandhiji was not against Bristish empire ..he was against the injustice and suffering of ppl at the hands of British … so is it that gandhiji would have been fine with Bristish rule if they were not as they were … ??
@Anand,
Nathuram also started saying” Born in a devotional Brahmin family, I instinctively came to revere Hindu religion, Hindu history and Hindu culture. I had, therefore, been intensely proud of Hinduism as a whole.”
Hindusim as a whole means, he believed in Shanakarcharya’s Advait philosophy about world and statements like Its all illusion. so when all is illusion then what was the need to save his Hindustan from Musalmans or Pakistan. He should have sat in his tiny room with closed eyes to think over his views.
anyway, Man’s development is always successive. Budha is Budha after more than 30 years of his age and what he did and said and thought is different than what he said, thought and did as after becoming Budha.
Any man say a lot of things at a certain stage but progressive people go on improving as per situations. Proactive like words are for these people who change not only themselves but affect world around them at that time.
Through Nathuram we cant understand Gandhi or even cant discuss. Because Nathuram is a sick mind. He was just a rusted knife which was used.
—-
If you go on constitution of worlds socalled largest democrarcy, it allows others to work there after getting a special permit but it does not allow any outsider who is not born there to become President of the nation. No matter how good or loyal you are towards the nation and its people, you cant rule the country. you are an outsider.
India does not hold any such reservation or restriction and it has happened since ancient time. It has been meritocracy here. who is able will rule. British tried to change this system. British rule in India was the most henius crime against humanity ever done in human history.
Leave alone dog, who is known for devotion, most dangerous animal also dont harm its companion when start living with him/her, but British did what no country will do with another country.
I am british, I take away your freedom, I take control over your produce (freely), I send it to my factory situated in my territory far away, and bring finished products and now sell to you and take money from you. You lost, your hard work, time, energy, means of living and ultimately because you have to survive you managed somehow to buy that product. You sold whatever property was with you. I killed your spirit, I treated you like a disgusting worm. I made you a slave and I used your money to bring Industrial revolution in my territory. I have power and can influence the history writers and can manage all kind of propaganda against you. Your surrounding is also filled with weak people, like any other place and I know they will bend because they have to survive, so I use them to break the courage of small number of people who still have sense and self respect. I become more powerful by alluring theseweak people and soon you all see what I want you guys to see, because neither you are left with self esteem, nor any kind of vision and energy. Its a hopeless scenee but as its said that even most clever criminal leave some loop hole. and as human being is a species which thrives on diversification so my own tools which I was thinking that will be used as I like start thinking because basically human being wants to live in freedom. I exposed you to my kind of life and you saw I am not that talented or powerful that I always should rule you or you always should serve me. Your self respect start coming back on surface. Now it does not matter how good administration I can give, my rule is evil because I have never been honest with you. I was selfish and was exploiting you though at times I was polite on surface but deep down I was sucking your blood.
You are now ready to live like a poorest man in an anarchy than to live under my rule.
…
I have to leave you free. Though this is my shameless attitude that even after 60 years I dont show any kind of regret what I did with an ancient territory where people were more civilized than me and hence they never attacked anyone like I did to appease my hunger for more wealth, more power. I look good becasue there is no dust in my territory, sun hardly shows its face in my area so my skin is fairer than yours because sun is sharp and strong in your area. I may admire rainbow but I discriminate as far as colour of human being is concerned. Beauty concepts are defined as I like so all different people are dirty and low graded.
—
In this scenario some one among you, come and try to improve the situations. He sees no progress of human species if his people keep hating and fighting with me and my people. he has to prove before the world that ancient India was not a fake and its culture was real when it gave mantras like “Vasudhaive kutambkam” etc. He treated human like human and established India as India.
now whatever historians write. it does not matter. he did according to soul of this ancient land.
@Dabba (43)
wondefrul conspiracy theory you have created.
and I beleive it was not ended. Because MKG was British and he was a useful person so why to waste him. Many british scientists were working on reason behind sexual desire among men and Gandhi was also studying the area as he wanted to go deeper that what are the conditions when such desires are generated in mind though body is weak. He was doing it at much higher level than what Freud etc could have thought.
So British played a drama before people of India. Brahmins used to have upper hand in India and because British were frustrated because inspite of planting Gandhi they were forced to leave India. so they hired a brahmin Nathuram Godse and in mean time they searched a Gandhi look alike in a distant village of Gujarat. Even RKNarayana in his Waiting for Mahatma, writes the last nights account. Gandhi’s room at Birla house has a underground gallery and Gandhi is replaced by British soldiers (Ala The second lady). Gandhi is taken to an unknown place because he will be required to have consultation in coming future when Pakistan will be provoked to attack India.
Dummy Gandhi is killed and he was prepared in haste so he does not recite his dialogues correctly (as he is not made aprised of the fact that actually he will be killed) and people get confusion whether he said Ahh or hey or Hey Ram.
—————-
and conspiracy theories dont end here. In Independent India also Lal Bahadur Shastri is not died but he was captured from russia to blackmail India and this time also body of a dummy is sent to India.
—
and then Indira Gandhi is also not killed in real but she is spending her old days at some unknown remote place. She was abducted a night before and dummy was killed.
same happened to Rajiv Gandhi.
and now a secret powerful group active world wide is planning to organise a secret meeting of these leaders who were died in the eyes of people.
–
Irving Wallace somehow got to know about Hitler and he wrote “Seventh secret”. Rest other countries did not have this chance and they think their leaders were died.
Now in this historical meeting (which may happen at some other planet also as its said that this secret powerful group has searched life on another planet and these leaders are shifted there) all these guys, Gandhi, Hitler, JFK, etc will be giving seminar.
Perhaps this powerful secret group has been studying the DNA coding of these leaders.
May be one day ordinary people of Earth will get some details about that seminar in the form of a book released by some powerful person of earth belonging to that secret cult.:)
RK ..
“Because Nathuram is a sick mind. He was just a rusted knife which was used.”
Nothing personal i am just being devil’s advocate here ::: >
You can’t call him sick ..you need to understand his physche then..he felt cheated ..money given to pakistan….people killed in the riots…..we can’t judge him without understanding what he felt ..totally agreed that his actions were wrong …..but Even today his last wish is that his ashes should be drowned only when river sindhu completely becomes part of India …
@Anand,
In comparison to healthy mind this is called sick mind. I hope after understanding his kind of psyche I can say his is a sick mind, who does not understand what excatly he is doing (he may have several reasoning why he is doing and what he wishes but thats entirely different matter that are his wishes healthy?).
——–
Which money was given to Pakistan? Some money which was not decided in the formula?
A large joint family is on the threshold of division because few members are unable to live with each other due to economic and various other reasons. Elders dont wish them to divide the family but members are or say situations are not under control. Property division has been made on paper. Few members start fighting with each other violence is done.
Few members who are going to live in same house, demand that those who are going out of house will not/should not be given money because fight was there and few of us are injured (died).
Eldest member who does not wish family to be divided, says no what was promised should be given to them.
Furious members allege him that he is bending too much before other branch of the family and he is a traitor of the family.
A group provokes these members that old man is the problem and if he is killed then many problems will be solved.
a member kills that old man.
Now killer says after my death my ashes should be burried in the house of other branch once our branch again occupy that house.
—-
Gandhi was not as in to one camp as Bhishma was in the camp of Kaurav but Pandavas did not assasinate him when they saw he is forced to keep silence. They were not sick mind
Godse like minds are sick.
It does not matter if he wishes that his ashes should be drowned in Sindhu or some other ancient river which was existing in erstwhile ancient Zambo dweepa.
Only Godse was the wise and true patriotic man in whole of India?
Never before his political group was seen in fighting for taking freedom from British.
Sorry, in my ordinary understanding Godse kind of mentality does not enter.
RK ..mere dost ..i was just trying to be devil’s advocate ..btw Nathuram did participate in freedom struggle ..he was editor of a marathi newspaper called agrani and he used to write articles against Bristish rule …I don’t know his exact contribution but he was part freedom struggle in pune … ..
I respect Gandhiji a lot and admire him like anybody else and nothing to take anything from him ..but i get pissed when ppl say India got freedom through non-violence..what abt lives of Bhagat singh,Chandrashekhar Azad,shahhed Uddam singh,Rajguru,Sukhdev and many more people …
we celebrate Gandhi Jayanti but do we celebrate anybody of the above’s b’day ..why don’t we have national holiday on Bhagat singh’s b’day ……
RK,
An interview of Gopal Gandhi
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0214/india.godse.html
Hope this is of help, I remember reading this article when it was first published.
Also, neither ‘Hey Ram’ nor stagnant ‘Aha’ were Gandhi’s last words. In his final moment, he was annoyed at being late for his prayer meeting and voiced it out as his last words.
Agrani (later restarted as Hindu Rashtra
with financial help from Narayan Apte) was more about the subject that its later name suggests rather than being about freedom struggle. Godse’s role in freedom struggle was as limited as that of RSS and Hindu Mahasabha whose member he was.
@Anand, Agree with you
I hate that song …..
“De di hame Azadi bina khadag bina dhaal, Sabarmati ke sant tune ker diya kamaal”
Bina ‘Khadag’ bina ‘Dhaal’?????
@Anand(51)
Gandhiji was a great supporter and upholder of Indian Culture and values. He did not want us to
become European(western) in our thinking and living. So even if it would have been a just rule (ie. a form of government that provided equal rights to Indians) by the British he would not have supported it because he was more against the culture they brought in than the British people.
To (partially)answer your question I quote Gandhi from ‘Hind Swaraj’. These are some of the things he says to Britishers in the conclusion of the book:
On British in India:
“I admit you are my rulers. It is not necessary to debate the question whether, you hold India by the sword or by my consent. I have no objection to your remaining in my country, but although you are the rulers, you will have to remain as servants of the people. It is not we who have to do as you wish, but it is you who have to do as we wish. You may keep the riches that you have drained away from this land, but you may not drain riches henceforth.”
On Indian Civilisation:
“We hold the civilization that you support to be the reverse of civilization. We consider our civilization to be far superior to yours. If you realize this truth, it will be to your advantage and, if you do not, according to your own proverb, you should only live in our country in the same manner as we do.”
On Religious values:
“You must not do anything that is contrary to our religions. It is your duty as rulers that for the sake of the Hindus you should eschew beef, and for the sake of Mohammedans you should avoid bacon and ham.”
On European education:
“We are not expressing our sentiments either through base selfishness or fear, but because it is our duty now to speak out boldly. We consider your schools and law courts to be useless.”
On Language
“The common language of India is not English but Hindi. You should, therefore, learn it. We can hold communication with you only in our national language.”
On world politics and Military:
“We cannot tolerate the idea of your spending money on railways and the military. We see no occasion for either. You may fear Russia; we do not. When she comes we shall look after her. If you are with us, we may then receive her jointly.
On Trade:
“you must abandon the idea of deriving any commercial benefit from us. We do not need any European cloth. We shall manage with articles produced and manufactured at home. You may not keep one eye on Manchester and the other on India.”
It is interesting to see how he looks at the the British especially the form of government they introduced. He calls British parliament a prostitute.
He says to extremists:
“I would say to the extremists: I know that you want Home Rule for India; it is not to be had for your asking. Everyone will have to take it for himself. What others get for me is not Home Rule but foreign rule; therefore, it would not be proper for you to say that you have obtained Home Rule if you have merely expelled the English.”
and to moderates:
“Mere petitioning is derogatory, we thereby confess inferiority. To say that British rule is indispensable, is almost a denial of the Godhead. We cannot say that anybody or anything is indispensable except God. Moreover, common sense should tell us that to state that, for the time being, the presence of the English in India is a necessity, is to make them conceited.”
And about resorting to violence:
“Again, India can fight like Italy only when she has arms. You have not considered this problem at all. The English are splendidly armed, that does not frighten me, but it is clear that, to pit ourselves against them in arms, thousands of Indians must be armed. If such a thing be possible, how many years will it take? Moreover, to arm India on a large scale is to Europeanize it. Then her condition will be just as pitiable as that of Europe. This means, in short, that India must accept European civilization, and if that is what we want, the best thing is that we have among us those who are so well trained in that civilization. We will then fight for a few rights, will get what we can and so pass our days. But the fact is that the Indian nation will not adopt arms, and it is well that it does not.”
Generations to come, it may well be, will scarce believe that such a man as this one ever in flesh and blood walked upon this Earth.
* Statement on the occasion of Gandhi’s 70th birthday
— Albert Einstein
I rest my case…………
@RK(53)
thanks!
I was trying to remember the name of that book by R K Narayanan, ‘Waiting for Mahatma’
wow Neeraja..that would help us more to understand the mahatma….
neeraj,
sorry… I meant to say that many extremists,.. who hate Mahatma Gandhi,.. can attack with silly remarks and it may take focus away from good things and films and then perhaps site administration will have act to control. then …delete,… hiding the comments,.. warn the people. this can take ugly form, but I see my fear was baseless as you people are going very well in a controlled way. .. good discussion.
read many new things.
Gandhi’s relevance ….. When majority of people are so selfish and self centered then they can not like a man like him who ask to sacrifice luxury so that there is little difference between man and man….
@RK
You have your opinions. Learn to respect other’s as well. I didn’t ridicule your post in any way. A little bit of maturity goes a long way buddy.
You are one of the millions who blindly hail Gandhi from what you’ve read or heard, closing your narrow minds to the “between the lines” of our nation’s history. I could go on and on, explaining how Gandhi was just another sweet oppressor. No conspiracy theories here, simple facts from our very own desi literature on him. But your lack of intellectual capacity to process that kind of information is very visible from all the posts you’ve made in this thread so far.
Stick to your “Lagge Raho Munnabhai”-Gandhi.
@ RK
i thought otherwise, but after going through the discussion above, i am not sure now whether we really did deserve such a man…
As one goes in the life of this person, you would understand that Gandhi was never a freedom fighter.
He was a person who wished to bring goodness back (Satyug). Incidentally his path had to go through this means.
This is the reason why e called back non-cooperation. He said – Nation is not matured enough.
This person is one of the biggest Karamayogi’s of our time.
thats an interesting observation Pradeep.
but did he ever call himself a karmayogi?
some thoughts from troubled gandhians-
“In a sense, Gandhi had it easier. He fought an amoral and alien system, and this gave him moral legitimacy and a great pulling power. But we don
i AM AMAZED AS TO HOW THIS SELF-OBSESSED. SELFISH NATION FORGETS SUBHASH CHANDRA BOSE !!!
@Pradeep Rathi
Gandhi was never a freedom fighter? I have objections. Whatever my little reading tells me about him, he definitely was a freedom fighter, but more than that he was a philosopher. Perhaps, the most important philosophical figures in post-industrial world.
Your comment made me think this: Isn’t it amazing to see that he believed in challenging the atrocities of the rulers (irrespective of who they are) by just talking about strength of mind and ordinary living?
Is it possible to see ‘trying to bring goodness’ and ‘ideal living’ in public domain without thinking of all this in relation with politics and economics of the society?
@krishn
if I get time. May be it will help me to get some insight into the question of his relevance today.
Ok. Gandhi’s relevance. hmmn…difficult to see it directly. Thinking of reading ‘Gandhi’s challenge to Modern Science’
@Anand
That was not a sarcasm, right?
@DPac
Thanks for the link
Here’s someone’s experience on visiting Mausoleum’s of Marx and Gandhi:
http://blogs.umass.edu/abasole/2007/11/04/mazaar-e-marx-mazaar-e-gandhi/
@playback
What are you talking about? This is about Gandhi!
Write a post on SubhshChandra Bose (and the movie!) and we’ll discuss him (and the movie :D)
By the way, it is really sad that half of the bengalis and maharashtrian brahmins are taught to hate Gandhi because of his differences with SubhashChadra Bose and Savarkar respectively.
I know a lot of them who have not read anything by any of them but choose to hate Gandhi for they were taught to do so. Height of regionalism!
@Neeraja (70) ..
no i was not being sarcastic …..i am toooooo small to comment on Gandhiji ….as i said i have nothing against him ..it’s just we have forgotten other heroes Nataji .. Bhagat Singh ..Lokmanya Tilak..chandrashekhar Azad…and many more..and many other unsung heroes as well …
Is swatantrata mahayagya mein kai veervar aaye kaam
Nana Dondhopant, Tantiya, chatur Azimulla sarnaam
Ahmedshah Maulavi, Thakur Kunvar Singh, Sainik abhiram
Bhaarat ke itihaas gagan mein amar rahenge jinke naam
-From Jhansi ki Raani (Subhadrakumari Chauhan)
We will remember them Anand
The point is, as I said Gandhi was more than a freedom fighter and his philosophy/ideology remains important even today. Hence the extra admiration.
Neeraja ..
well we don’t remember them …some of us do ..but go out on streets of india …the common man doesn’t know about them….our government doesnot take steps …we celebrate Gandhi Jayanti ..we have natinol holiday..what about other heroes ..atleast one day should be dedicated to all of them if not individual………and people outside India think we got our freedom through ahimsa …and common thats not true ..we have lost lot of people in the freedom struggle ….
@Neeraja ! What are YOU talking about ? :O Marathis and Bengalis…taught to hate Gandhi ? :O Well, at least I dont come from that kind of rearing ! I have studied Gandhi extensively …infact done a creative National Project on him for the government. What I am talking about is the “selective adulation” that we follow. By no means were any of the other freedom fighters in any way inferior…so why are they cross-faded into oblivion ?
Gandhi had direct connection with masses unlike other leaders.
@PLAYBACK
I took enough care to say half of them. I do not generalize based on personal experience but I have enough bengali friends (some of who happen to confirm what I said) and a large family of marathi brahmins (in fact, Godse jaise chitpavan brahmins!)
to make observations.
Sorry if it appeared so but that remark wasn’t aimed at you.
I think I already expressed my opinion on why Gandhi remains more important figure than others. Totally agree with Krishn. He brought people into picture, drew them into the struggle for it was their struggle and it was their swaraj he aimed for.
I do not deny that a lot of people remain ignorant about some of the great freedom fighters reasons for which include problems ranging from illiteracy to caste politics!
Last year, in Lucknow I took this picture of a board that said: “Nirmanadheen. Amar shaheed Bhagat Singh, Rajguru evam Sukhdev smaarak sthala, Lucknow.”
The construction had started in Jan 2001 and they had aimed to finish it by Nov 2001! The board stated all these details along with the money involved(If you want I can send you the picture!)
Yes, it’s a sad state of affairs :( :-<
@neeraj(71)
i do agree with Neeraja…i can’t say bout Bengalis, but yes not half but i can say majority of Marathis and not only Brahmins but of all caste are taught by their parents to hate Gandhi, without trying to understand a thing bout him…n yeah i’m a maharstrian…n thankfully my parents did not do this…but 90% of my marathi friends have this outlook bout him..
@Anand (56),
Sorry for delay in response.
Bhagat Singh (all over India) has been enjoying more popularity than Chandra Shekhar Azad, Ashfaq Ulla, Ram Prasad Bismil, Bhagawati Babu, and if we leave above mentioned names for a minute then there were Raj Guru and Sukhdev who were arrested with Bhagat Singh and who were killed in jail along with him. But ask your heart honestly and it may beats more for Bhagat Singh. whatever synchronization may be there or whatever reasoning may be there behind this factor. There will be something extra and special in Bhagat Singh which made him popular in his time than rest of his colleagues and later also. It may be his wisdom and leadership quality also but its a true factor.
Now People like more Neta Ji Subhash Bose than Mohan Singh irrespective of the fact that Mohan Singh had actually founded the Azad Hind Fauz.
Can we fight why more people like Bose than Mohan Singh?
Can we fight why some like someone and give preference over others?
We are discussing in 2008 and 60 years have passed since Gandhi was died and time is a biggest filter to create an image of a person.
Its not always Government who has to do. Government is made by politicians and politicians salute those people in open who have greater influence over people so if a large number of people will start giving preference to Neta Ji or Ambedkar or names you mentioned then Governments will satrt saluting them more because its compulsion of politicians to go for popular images as that give illusion that they are with people. They lose nothing in doing this rather gain and flow with main stream.
And Mass always develop a certain kind of wisdom and whats irrelevant always falls like a ripe fruit from the tree. Only few so called intelecutals time and again try to touch those subjects.
Not that other Pandvas than Arjuna, and many other fighters fought with less bravery but even than its show of Arjuna and more than him its Krishna whose name matters in that war. He is guiding the war, he is not showing any physical bravery but he has that moral and guiding power. If this does not matter than Duryodhan might have won who prefered Millions of Krishna’s soldiers over a disarmed Krishna.
Each fighter has importance and has given his/her input but his/her individual effort cant do anything . as we say akela chana bharh nahin jhonk sakta. Gandhi had power to lead leaders and that makes him biggest of all of them. and biggest is always biggest.
You cant piss off on Gandhi if he is given more importance than others of his contemporary. You can, though do a bit to correct some things if you think its a mistake and can start doing something so that people get aware of less known freedom fighters. Make things available and as mentioned above time is biggest filter and what appeals to many people will retain there at above the surface.
@Vinayak,
Thanks for the link. Gopal Godse ji is same man in thinking as he might have been 60-65 years ago. Thats surprising as if he was able to think something meaningful in his youth then this progress should be seen in his old age thoughts when whole life experiences and wisdom is acculmulated.
Or may be its his compulsion to take same stubborn stand else he cant live.
@Shekhar (58),
Song is true to its purpose. Gandhi himself did not take resort of violent methods so from his part he brought azadi for people bina khadag bina dhal.
When song is written for Neta Ji or Bhagat Singh then it will have different words and hence different meaning. A 3 minute song cant cover whole things. When poet has to create a song for children singing before the statue of Gandhi and motive is to throw light on good things Gandhi propagated in his life time then poet does full justice. If poet says no Bhagat Singh and all were wrong in same song then your objections can hold water.:-?
@Anand,
coming back to your point about Nathuram and Gandhi.
You quoted Nathuram was disturbed because Gandhi advised Indian govt. to give 55 Cror Rs (as was formulated before)to newely made Pakistan.
Any wise man of that time was able to see that British govt./administration was busy in taking away Indias wealth to their country but Godse and his mental masters did not fight with British. What 55 Cror Rs have value before several thousand cror Rs?
He wrote against Gandhi in his magazine Agrani. He did not fight with British but he wanted to make Gandhi weak and thus freedom struggle.
Whatever Brave Ashwatthama was, but he is never pardoned because he killed sleeping people, he tried to kill unborn child, a pregnant woman.
How good a person was Nathuram, we can leave this question for Historians, but common sense raise questions inside that Jinna was making Pakistan so why Godse did not go to kill him?
Patel was home minister, why Godse did not go to kill him?
Nehru was PM and hence supereme power, why Godse did not go to kill him, as these things could have served more his purpose. But he was knowing that he cant kill these well guarded people and perhaps he will be killed in the attempt itself. so he and his mentors selected Gandhi. 2 days before a bomb is exploded near Gandhi’s meeting and Nathuram actually reaches in Birla House with a gun, this factor suggests that they selected weakest person as far as securitry and availability of the person is concerned.
Nathuram and his mentors did not fight with Gandhi’s ideology if they thought it was harmful for India. If they were healthy mind then and true follower of Indian ways then they could have followed Gandhi’s way to fight with him. But They attacked him by hiding them behind the curtains.
In such scenario Nathuram seems nothing but a contract killer who comes from anywhere and shoots his target.
—–
Bose worked with Gandhi, Jinna worked with Gandhi and Bhagat Singh was very much active till 1930 and if these gentlemen would have killed Gandhi then it was their ideological difference and it could have suggested us that yes Gandhi was really wrong. Nathuram was nothing but a particle of dust. This is like sending self killing squad. this was terroristic activity and he played a terrorist.
I would believe, understanding of wise people like Bose, Patel, Nehru, MN Roy etc more than a killer’s understanding.
Bose could have arranged killing of Mahatma Gandhi if he thought Gandhi was harmful for nation. But Bose, no matter how different he thought as far as taking decision during 1935-45 is concerned, understood importance of Gandhi. His first brigade in azad hind fauz was named as Gandhi Brigade.
@KJ(66),
Sorry did not understand your comment completely.
We dont deserve him because he is too good or he is irrelevant? ;)
@Pradeep (67),
Thanks for very nice comment.
Fully agree. Gandhi was never a freedom fighter. He is already free. He does not have to fight for freedom. The same thing he was advocating to people also that treat yourself as free people and then you guide your own life in a way which is good for you and then any administration be it British or Indian, does not matter and thats for the sake of managing materialistic things. British as administrators or rulers have to go because they cheat Indian people and dont serve them. To maintain administration people need servents or at the most public representatives.
Rulers had no place, especially those under whose rule spiritual progress of common people is finished or reduced.
@Playback(69),
People have not forgot Neta Ji. Nobody will stop you if you wish to celebrate any festival dedicated to Neta Ji. If people dont participate and oppose your efforts only then you can have such statements.
Moreover be it Gandhi or Neta ji or any other leader, reciting their names like mantra is not going to fulfil any purpose.
They are there and whenever someone needs an inspiration from their lives then their life stories are available. After so many years we should have that capability that we can see how their good works helped humanity and where they could have progressed more.
Their comparison now in negative sense is not going to help anyone. They are dead so it does not matter to them but their works can be diluted by controversial efforts which are not given required thoughts before doing.
RK
because he was too good. i guess inspite of unifying the freedom struggle of india, doing more for the women of india than all feminists put together, being praised even by his supposed detractors like bhagat singh, subhash chandra bose, jinnah and the british, so many people feel that he did not do much for india and unnecessary credit is given to him. i can understand due credit not being given to other people, but this is bad reasoning. all the conversation above just made me feel at that point that maybe we did not deserve such a man who is uniformly praised for his ideals and inspires revolutionaries around the world still he is hurled abuses by every regional party in india and every second reader of this forum.
@KJ(86),
Thanks for nice and wise comment.
True a person can say anything to Gandhi but cant point out mistakes of a local MLA,MP, minister, CM, even ward member because their supporters will destroy the whole geographia of the critic.
Gandhi is dissolved all over and hence he has no such strong following and its good also as there is not a true organisation behind his name which can fight and things take ugly shape.
“Ka Vishnu ko ghati gayo jab Bhrigu ne mari Laat”.
If someone likes Gandhi its fine and if someone does not like, Gandhi is not going to be affected.
He was always away and above these shallow things
@Neerja,
Thanks for interesting links, quotes and nice comments.
I wish to add that this can be an exaggeration that people at some places actually teach their kids to hate Gandhi. They may say against Gandhi in their discussions which kids catch but to tell deliberately a kid that you must understand he was a bad man, is bit odd.
Due to many ideological and political reasons various organisations which run schools and which want their own leaders to be more powerful than Gandhi try to create diffused image of Gandhi and they create books in that way only.
But these things harm kids because once they are grown up and join professional college and later career then these kind of one sided and narrow education harm them a lot as most of time they are involved in hateful discussions and it affects their psyche and ultimately growth.
If somebody is saying things which affects growth of a kid then he is harming his kid and not the great an about whom he has disliking.
So even if to fulfil their temporary ego they fall for these ugly and biased criticism but in real they harm their own children as they will never be a normal adults in their later lives.
They will be closed and it may take years for them to understand a thing from various angles.
@Rasik (78),
Thanks for your comment and you are a lucky person whose parents allowed to make your own opinion about people of past.:)
@Vikksterr (65),
I may give full respect to a good opinion but nowhere its written in any scripture no matter how old it is that one has to support and respect bad things.
Your comment was the first which did not touch film at all but directly hit against Gandhi.
Now just to make you understand, you may have any kind of good opinion about your parents especially your father if he was the lone earner but your neighbour and his office people may have different opinion. Will you make opinion about him based on opinion of these people? You understand him and you know his limitations also and if some where he has not been that strong as a hero should be, then will you judge him on that basis.
God Forbid, but if your grand father is dead then how you recall him? by his good works or by his weaknesses.
to extrapoplate your own dialogue –
your parents have created you and though they never wished you to become one but so many times you behave like a monster.
When you criticise someone, then do it responsibly and give full supporting reasoning and if you dont have time for that then please dont try to comment at all. World will be same without your comment though with sick comment others may have to spend time and energy.
Those who have not worked with Gandhi ever in his life, their writings are just products of their own fiction. This is not about Mohan Das K Gandhi but Gandhi of their own imagination.
Search in writings of contemporary wise people.
The day you will make a positive comment I will respect your opinion. @};-
RK,
i fully agree of whatever u have said about Gandhiji….but my point remains..and what i meant that i get pissed on ppl who say India got freedom through non-violence…thats totally unjust to other freedom fighters..and u deprive them of the status they owe..and please man i don’t get pissed on Gandhiji…how can anyone for that matter get pissed on gandhiji ???…..
do u think India got freedom only thru non-violence ???i hope not…..
Also i don’t diffrentiate between Bhagat singh and sukhdev and rajguru…i always recognize them as a trio ….
once agian i would say i am not pointing finger at Gandhiji…and i beleive he was the greatest man after Gautam Buddha……
@Anand,
Re_ Bhagat Singh, Raj Guru and Sukhdev, I try to point out that Bhagat Singh is more and has always been more popular than rest of his two comerades. We will not find any filmmaker making films completely dedicated to names of Sukhdev and Raj Guru. Bhagat Singh makes bigger character.
——
Gandhi’s own writings and collected speeches might have revealed to you about his definition of non-violence.
If woman of one’s family is attacked then its his duty to save her, her respect and no matter in this fight he takes life or gives life. He is fighting against injustice, evil etc.
Same is true for fighting for children, weak etc.
——
One has to see what can work in given scenario.
History suggests very clearly that Babar won over Delhi king because Babar’s army was equipped with explosives and modern armaments like tanks while Delhi Army was relying on swords.
——-
Many times before also arms based revolts were done against British army but because there was no single king who was acceptable to whole of the India hence they were failed.
——
1857 revolt was also failed because of this lacking of proper arms while British army was equiiped with best of arms available at that time.
——
Vivekanand and before that Dayanand was there who could have unified people but their concerns remained limited in to social reforms only. Aurobindo tried in his ways, later Tilak tried in his own ways but again they were limited progress.
Gandhi came and connected movement with masses.
He prepared Millions of people to be ready for long term struggle and to bear all kind of sufferings. He tried to hit at the basic foundation on which British empire was established and was becoming strong. If Azad and group were able to perform small events in Allahabad and Bhagat Singh and group were able to perform similar events in Lahore or amritsar or some small groups in bengal then they produce thrill and sensation in spine of people but they dont bring any big and desired and fruitful results. This was like test match between Australia and state team of any state of India. Bravery factor was intact but it was not serving any purpose than to give message that people are ready to give and take lives.
People dont pay attention on the life story of Bhagat Singh and they just try to fix him in their own understanding about freedom struggle.
He started very early. Why people dont pay attention to the fact that during his last major event (when he threw bombs in assembly) he insisted on two things, that bomb will be exploded in such a way that nobody is hurt and second they will not escape from the place and will give arrest. What this says?
Is it against what Gandhi was doing or propagating. Gurrila kind of war did not bring any major fruits to these revolutionaries and there was no ideology behind that execpt come what may we have to harm British as they harm us.
Developments at that time were giving clues to Bhagat Singh and he was an intelligent mind and he saw and therefore acted in that way. He brought genuinity to their movements.
Bose did that to make struggle international format. They all worked towards same goal, but major strength of struggle was coming from Gandhi’s movement because it connected masses with the movement. People like you and me felt that this is our struggle and we have to take part.
We like it or not no other leader of that time could mobilise people like Gandhi did. No sector of British army revolted after 1857 revolt but after years of continuous struggle time came when Navy also revolted. But this revolt cant be seen independent. Its becasue of that mass movement which was started mainly in 1916.
If we draw conclusions as people do to take away credit from Gandhi’s movement that because of Nvay revolt Britishers got fear, then its a wrong conclusion.
History suggests very clearly that such small revolt always can be handled.
in 1984 thousands of army personnels revolted and ran away from army, was it difficult for Indian army to take care of such event?
Is it completely difficult for Sri Lanka to handle LTTE’s struggle? or India may feel disturbance and progress is less because of tehs ethings but is it entirely difficult for India to handle terroristic activities in several parts of the country?
—
as in ayurveda, a patient’s disease decide what kind of medicine he will be given in same way at that time Gandhian movement was the best way to fight against British.
Bose joined Azad Hind Fauz and tried to put pressure on British empire, is one arm of that big movement and independently it may not affect strong empire. Not trained soldiers were part of azad hind fauz but ordinary people were trained. in a way it was a crowd which could have made psychological impact.
and we all know how India and Indian govt. fought for Azad Hindi Fauz’s soldiers captured by British army.
Above all , these all things are very important chapters of history and we all have to study them carefully. If not today but tomorrow I may draw a fruiful and justified conclusion.
Thanks for a good discussion.
@ RK ,…so according to you India got its independence because of Gandhi ? ….Please answer very carefully and precisely…. Thanx !
@Playback (93),
As If you can give careful and precise answer to such question:-?
But anyway I will try.
India got its independence because of protest of people of India from various sectors. Though this was a match where several players contributed their best but if you ask me then yes Gandhi was “captain” and “Man of the Match”.
@RK(79)
“time is a biggest filter to create an image of a person.” ^:)^
I was scared to say that for the risk of mis-interpretation is high!
@88
by ‘taught’ I meant influenced to think in certain way.
@82
Do you think he would have been so popular if he had not killed Gandhi?
very bold stand on Godse
Just adding few words to the discussion:
I think Bhagat Singh is more popular among these people because he was perhaps more ideology-driven. It’s a different issue that our movies fail to bring that out.
Did India get independence because of Gandhi?
No! there were infinitely many people involved.
@Neerja,
Re-Godse,
he was active in politics as per his capacity. If he could have become a famous man he could have by then. He was an unknown face which suited his senders also. He got a known face after killing Gandhi.
–
Re- Gandhi, his role of a motivator cant be ignored whenever roles of others are discussed. things dont change in one day so what factors brought to nation at that stage is a continously on going process. Many can be very good worker and many can be very good planner but not all can be visionary and we have to keep different people in different category.
Even in INC of that time if anybody was capable to become far bigger motivator than Gandhi then History was not going to keep Gandhi’s name on top of those names. we could have read different names.
He had extra capabilities over these leaders.
He was no simply emotional in the manner like Bose and Nehru were and thus he had fully control over his anger and decision taking capability and hence he took simple in looks but hard hitting decisions.
In real life his decisons were very practical and articulate.
When his son and RajaGopalacharya’s daughter came to him that they want to marry because they love each other. He advised them not to meet for 1 full year and not to contact at all through any meansand if still after 1 year they feel same towards each other then they have true love towards each other and its not simply affection of being together for sometime while working in a team.
He reformed his writings to make it more simple and more simpler so that everybody can understand.
many ordinary aspects make him extraordinary which was lost in other leaders. Many of them wanted to do extraordinary things and big things only so they did not have that connection and familiarity with ordinary people’s problems as Gandhi was.
wonder if gandhi would be the same gandhi in today’s era. its time to “indulge”…indulge yourself in every possible way. every horading says so. gandhi’s key word was control…self control in every way. and the two will never meet. some nice thoughts rksaab.
….
attenborough’s gandhi was annual feature in school days…but used to swich off the tv after the jalianwala bagh kand…did it so many times. every time i would see the scene,would feel why they didnt attack the police guys there. i used to hate gandhi for non-violence then. used to think he was the culprit. but things changed later on. his autobiography n few more books…dont agree with all his philosophy but respect the man a lot. he was able to accept himself with his weaknesses. there is a scene in making of mahatma….when he decides to practice celibacy, he tells kasturba about it. her reaction..main to kar loongi par aap ?
but then gandhism is an eternal debate.
I read an article – an essay by Srinivasa Sastri in my 11th standard english non-detailed. There is a streak of aggression that ran through the Mahatma that is personified in his own words thus (not – verbatim – I am recollecting what I read). What is Satyagraha? it is the act of sticking to what one believes in as “truth”, even if the entire world and its maker stand on one side and ask you to renounce it.
This is how aggressive he was to his principles. However this stiff stance was rooted and mellowed by adherence to non-violence – something that ordinary humans cannot manage(managing fierce commitment and fighting spirit and holding peace externally) – this often resulted in eruption of violence that resulted in incidents like Chauri Chaura. Gandhi was and will remain an enigma who practiced what he preached and thanks to his aura was able to remain in the high pedestal upon which he placed himself by virtue of his acts and thoughts. His expectation that he could control 30 million people in the same way was a belief too “dreamy” even for a dreamer like Panditji. Thankfully there were pragmatists like Patel and Rajaji who gave Gandhiji’s wishes with flying horses to fly. Often those soldiers are forgotten in the “utopian” glare of the thoughts of someone like “Bapu”. However come to think of, it showed how an organisation committed to change should be staffed. Congress was doubtlessly an A team comprising of people with aura and “ideals” like Gandhi and Nehru, with strategists like Rajaji and leaders like Patel, Abul Kalam Azad who were on the streets when action was happening. An apt lesson in running a party intending to bring about change. Today every one likes “Status Quo”, where principles are in paper and paper alone.
Gandhis letters to Hitler…..
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/gandhihitler.html
Gandhi saw a film also in his life
….. Vijay Bhatt
Jinna and gandhi talks …
http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articletext.asp?artid=A045
@Phoenixnu (97),
With different kind of problems Gandhi would have been giving different solutions. Afterall Gandhi of 1890,1910,1920 was not same Gandhi of 1930 as far as his outward image is concerned but innerbeing was continously improving and same was going to happen if he was alive in todays time. Such minds respond as per the prevailing situations. They are not mind suffering from inertia.
—–
Re. Self Control,– Every second (every third at some places) person is hanekring after and is ready to pay high price to learn art of self control. “Self control” subject is never going to be died and it will always remain alive.
Majority at present belong to very young generation and they dont pay attention or bother for self control at that age so its looking this as you are quoting but at certain stage of his/her life everybody start giving proper attention and value to self control.
—-
Good flexible and progressive attitude. You will do something in life. Perhaps we are sharing web space with a would be star.@};-
@VP Jaiganesh (98)
Thanks for nice comment.
There is a trend in Hindus ways of making temples where we find that a temple is though devoted to a particular God and central place is dedicated to him but several other deities are also established in same temple. All the deities have their own aura and interesting tales of performances in different circumstances.
——
Many have talent individually and they shine more when guided or surrounded by someone who can see more than them. Gandhi was a proven leader because of his SA experiences. Aurobindo was leader of high magentic effect but good or bad he had his own inner turmoils and had renounced active politics. Tilak was very good and very influential but he was at the most leader thinking about Hindus and that too Maharastrians only.
Patel was not a people’s leader before Gandhi came. His organising skills were looked when he led Champaran farmer’s movement. Till 1933 Nehru and Bose were quite fiery young leaders who were influenced by Marxist ideology at that time. They had political ideology and had Utopia that once political freedom is got then many problems will be solved automatically.
None of the leader of that time had any vision about society. How people will tackle cast system, question of religion, or difference.
Gandhi’s ways may look weak or bad but he was the only leader who was involved in “Cosntructive and creative social engineering” also and he was not totally dependent on his political journey only to make difference in the society.
He got good success or not during his life time or his efforts were subotaged after his death is entirely different matter altogather and we cant blame Gandhi for that. He tried, thats important.
Some people surely might have chanegd their outlook towards these problems because of Gandhi.
@Krishn(99), Thanks for the link. People may allege or ridicule Gandhi’s efforts but he tried on his part to communicate.
@Krishn(100),
Gandhi saw Ram Rajya, and though he liked it and praised Vijay Bhatt’s efforts but he termed it cine watching as waste of time. In that scenario it was fine. If he was alive then he could have used power of cinema also to bring some changes in society.
He was not having much time, so for him to take out time for cinema was unthinkable.
————-
Thanks for link concerning Gandhi-Jinnah Talks.
@krishn
thanks for those links.
I heard that there is a very interesting Gandhi-Tagore letter correspondence which was also adapted into a play recently.
Does anyone know how to get hold of the text?
@Neerja (106),
You should find Gandhi-Tagore correspondence through Google if not complete then few letters should be there. There is a Mahatma Gandhi website also.
and check for Rommain Rolland and CF Andrews’s writings also as they had compared Gandhi and Tagore’s thoughts on many things.
Tagore’s 2 letters to Gandhi, can be found here
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tagore’s_Letters_to_M._K._Gandhi
@RK,….Nehru and Bose in the same breath ?
@Playback,
If not in same breath then I am forced to assume that you have somehow missed their history when they were working together and perhaps you missed the opportunity to read about their open air fight also during an open session of INC.
Sorry if you are already aware and if inspite of knowing all these things you are asking then I am extremely sorry that I could not get depth of your question.
So please elaborate and oblige @};-:):-?
@ RK ,…what r u talking about ? …just cos they came together during their lifetime ?…please elaborate…my history lessons are very concrete
@Playback,
I have not understood your one liner, 7 words question (109),
so please first elaborate that.
If your history lessons are concrete then I am nobody to elaborate before you. ;)
My history and geography lessons are very weak.
The one major fault with INC which persists even today is total intolerance if counter opinions of second rung leaders and grass roots by the “main deities”. This deification has really ruined the movement. Instead of fighting together the British empire, the movement was split across in several factions. Gandhi had the British pleasing way of fight and Nehru passionate to be aggressive, but seduced and mellowed by his emotional attachment to Gandhi, followed suit. Whenever there was criticism, it was denied and the critics allowed to get out of INC. It was no less autocratic than Microsoft or any other MNC. The my way or no way of Gandhi meant that 30 million people could not be united under a single umbrella. This meant always that there were always a fairly large number of Indians who never cared what was happening around them, getting educated, working in Police, INS etc., This dichotomy helped the British take their own sweet time to get out of India, not leaving an ounce of usable shit behind for India or Pakistan. If 30 million people had hit the streets on one day(not with sticks, but just with bare hands and resolve) I doubt if the British empire could have handled with only a few thousand of “white” officers and soldiers. Even modern police armed with guns and bullets are unable to control riots and mobs, i doubt if Britishers could have managed it. The FACT is that our freedom movement was hijacked by INC and thanks to their impractical policies that pissed off many including M.A.Jinnah, the unity of masses to achieve a critical mass was NEVER achieved. It could have been done during the first non cooperation movement, but sorry Mahatma missed the bus thanks to his hallucination that people supported it for HIS methods and HIS alone. Actually people wanted the British to get the hell out of here after Amritsar massacre and a host of other issues. Once that opportunity was missed, British disinformation campaign had enough time to develop schisms within the freedom movement that was propelled by the sacrifices of giants like Tilak. And RK saab, I never thought in my wildest dreams that Tilak’s voice reached only to Maharashtrians. I am from Thamizh Nadu and our great poet Bharathi , our leaders like V.O.Chidambaram and Subrahmaniya Siva had taken Tilak’s words to the last person in Kanyakumari and he was a giant in everyone’s minds everywhere. Tilak had the maturity to allow “every” method a freedom fighter chose to use against the tyrannical british empire unlike Gandhiji’s my way or no way attitude. Wasn’t it Gita where Krishna asks Arjuna to take up the bow and fight even if it means destroying one’s own kin in the war of Dharma? So why reluctance to break a few white heads if that is what is needed to scare the British empire from the subcontinent? Atleast a threat or posture would have been enough from not just one feeble old man with stick, but from 30 million or atleast from 5 million.
Bravo Jaiganesh Da,… actually we did “break a few white heads”. Remember the INA penetrating from the North East with a victory ? … Bose, …and valiant soldiers from Punjab & Bengal !
RK,
Lokmanya tilak was a national Hero and dint merely belonged to Maharashtra ….he was the part of famous trio of lal-bal-pal (one from punjab and other one from Bengal)….he was the first congress man who suggested that hindi should be the national language (He didn’t suggest marathi ) …..he started ganesh festival so that brahmins and non brahmins would come together ….
@RK(108)
Yeah I have read those wikipedia letters. Will look for other things you suggested. Thanks.
To Subhas Bose, Gandhi always
remained ‘India’s greatest man’. His
appreciation of the unique contribution of
Gandhi was unequivocal. He recognised and
admitted Gandhi as the undisputable, unrivalled
leader of the masses.
Subhas had all praise for Gandhi’s unflinching
patriotism, firmness in character, love for truth etc.
Infact, Bose bowed before Gandhi’s ’single hearted
devotion, his relentless will, and his indefatigable labour’. To Gandhi, Bose
was like a son whose ’self sacrifice and suffering, drive, integrity and
commitment to the national cause and the
capacity to bind all Indians into one people
were unsurpassed.’
Subhas praised Gandhiji for Dandi March and Salt Satyagraha (1930).
He wrote nostalgically ‘The march of Dandi -
an event of historical importance which will
rank on the same level with Napoleon’s march
to Paris’. He particularly admired Gandhiji
success in involving women into the freedom
movement.At the same time Subhas severely
criticized Gandhiji’s participation in the Second
Round Table Conference in London. Bose was
much perturbed by the way Gandhiji played
his cards at the Round Table Conference.
Gandhiji should have spoken, he felt, at the
Round Table Conference, with a firm voice.
In his treatise ‘The Indian Struggle’ which was
published in November 1934 Subhas wrote,’If the Mahatma had spoken in the language of
dictator Stalin, Duce Mussolini or Fuhrer
Hitler, John Bull would have understood and
bowed his head in respect’.
Bose’s innate devotion and respect for Gandhiji
remained as firm even though his path was
diverging. He clearly stated ‘it will always be
my aim and object to try and win his confidence
for the simple reason that it will be tragic for
me if I succeed in winning the confidence of
other people but fail to win the confidence of
India’s greatest man’.
Subhas had his ‘last long and hearty talk
with the Mahatma on 20th June, 1940.’ He had
pressed Gandhi to launch the struggle taking
advantage of the critical position of the British
in the Second World War. He told that it was
the most opportune time and it was impossible
to think of any other situation in which India
could start the struggle. Mahatma replied, ‘why
do you think that we cannot get better
opportunities later on ? I am sure we will have
many such opportunities. Whether England
wins or loses the war, she will be weakened
by it; she will have no strength to shoulder the
responsibilities of administering the country,
and with slight effort on our part she will have
no alternative but recognise India’s
independence’
Even outside India, Bose remained unshaken in his deep allegiance to Gandhiji.
His praise and devotion for Gandhi were again
obvious in his broadcast on Gandhiji’s birthday
on 2nd October, 1943. ‘The service which
Mahatma Gandhi has rendered to India is so
unique and unparalleled that his name will be
written in letters of gold in our national history
for all time’.
Even Gandhiji, while differing from the
extreme methods of Subhas Bose, had utmost
admiration for his unique effort for India’s
freedom. On one occasion Gandhiji wrote to
Subhas, ‘regarding your love for the country
and determination to achieve freedom, you are
second to none. Your sincerity is transparent.
Your spirit of self- sacrifice and suffering can
not be surpassed by anybody’. On another
occasion in a conversation with an American
journalist, on the eve of launching the Quit India
Movement, Gandhiji defended Bose as ‘a
patriot of patriots’.
Netaji’s last broadcast on 6th July, 1944 addressed to Gandhiji through Azad Hind Radio, was like a brilliant report in which he described how ‘the high esteem in which you are held by patriotic Indians outside India and by foreign friends of India’s freedom, was increased a hundred fold when you bravely sponsored the Quit India Movement in August 1942′. Concluding his speech he fervently sought the blessings of Gandhi,’Father of our Nation, in this holy war of India’s liberation we ask you for your blessings and good wishes.’
During 1945 and 1946, Gandhiji came
to know a lot about the exploits of Subhas and
his Indian National Army. While addressing
the INA prisoners he paid unreserved tributes
in hailing Bose as ‘Netaji’. He also paid
unqualified tribute to the INA. ‘The greatest
among its achievements was to gather together,
under one banner, men from all religions and
races of India, and to infuse in them the spirit
of solidarity and oneness, to the utter exclusion
of all communal and parochial sentiments. It
is an example which we should all emulate.’
BOSE and NEHRU …
The year 1927 brought Subhas closer to
Jawaharlal Nehru at the annual session of the
Indian National Congress, which was held at
Madras. They formed the Independence of
Indian League and under their joint effort,
resolution for ‘Complete Independence’ was
passed.
GANDHI letters to TILAK…..
http://www.mkgandhi.org/Selected%20Letters/gandhi-tilakcorr.htm
GANDHI all letters , search in link
http://www.mkgandhi.org/Selected%20Letters/letter.htm
@Anand (115),
If we talk about Kesari and Lokmanya’s fiery thoughts and slogans etc then yes he had all the things what a big leader can have. But his big social decisons affected him and stopped him from becoming a National leader. A national leader thinks about all people irrespective of their religion and cast. In personal life his intentions were noble and personally he was not differentiating but people who were not living in his vicinity were depedent on his big steps and writings etc and there he was opining things limited to Hindus only.
A scholar of highest level but somehow he could not see the call of the time and hence by the time he died he was standing on controverial ground. He paved ways for many things which were going to be flourished in future but at same time he and his teachings became tools in the hands of extremists so we can say that he could not see that extremists will misuse his teachings and will harm the nation and they did in due course of time.
From Savarkar, Godse to senior Thakray and now Junior Thakray have been misusing Tilak’s teachings and have been covering their wrong doings under the curtain of the name of a far bigger and greater leader.
History is about time passed, but present days events should be analysed to see what can be good for present times and country of present time. We cant insists on things prevailing in 600AD. Since then situations have been changed and we need modern defintions.
Today you may find it very difficult to defend Lokmanya’s stand on the bill introduced to incraese age of bride and people may be shocked that it was going to be increased from 10-12.
Hope you will , with your knowledge about Tilak or Lal Bal Pal, take discussion on higher level.
@Rk..
i have very limited knowledge about our history ..anyways all the heores played some part or the other in the upliftment of the society …
man pls dont talk abt Thakeray and savarkar and tilak in same line …
i am ashamed of myself for being from the same comm of that of thakeray …these are such a narrow mided ediots who bring disgrace to the entire society ..
@VP JaiGanesh (113),
Hope it was a balanced and very well thought outburst. For this reason I normally wait for a second response from a person as that may bring out real thoughts. your first and second comments have differences.
Hope flexibility prevails.
—
This is very strange to know that you feel that even modern army and police is unable to control riots etc. Such views need a revision. as in practicality it does not seem true. we have been watching scenario contradictory to your thoughts.
—
INC – thats very narrow understanding about INC’s history (INC of era before 1947).
When you know something then you will not follow those who know less in that field than you.
There is no history like INC’s history in last few centuries. So democratic and continuously on going journey.
This is so awkward to see you compare corporate companies with INC. INC’s journey is to study with proud. It was that bigger flag under which many stalwarts, whatever ideology they were believing in personal life, were working. Sociolists, communists, democrats etc all were working under same banner.
Nobody stopped anyone to have different opinion. Nobody stopped them to opine their different opinion on open platform.
Nobody stopped people to establish forum based on their own ideas.
If Bose thought otherwise then he went on to join Azad Hind Fauz.
Every leader was so wise and talented that they were capable to establish something of their own. Second level leaders of INC were not members of Army who just follow their superiors. When such intelligentia will be gathered at same place then difference of thoughts is going to happen and then difference between experiences, maturity and age level etc were also there.
If inspite of keeping differences with Gandhi’s thoughts and functioning these stalwart leaders respected him and valued his presence in that era then we are not in a position to take Gandhi in lower manner.
In a team one can be wonderful all rounder also but its not necessary that he may have a vision also which is necessary to carry team ahead to get victory.
—-
It would be interesting to know that which organisation you have in mind where second level leaders are given same powers as first level leaders?
Azad Hind Fauz had leaders at same level which was belonging to Bose?
—-
Bose was president of INC two times in 1930s. If he had potential to change its course of direction then he could have. As mentioned above, INC was not made entirely from people having soldier mentallity. Many of the leaders had same kind of intelligentia level and one cant direct them under one ideology only.
It was very difficult for these second level leaders to work under each other.
Gandhi was not member of INC after 1930. He was accepted to masses and that must be one of the reason that all talented stalwarts valued him and his existence. What they were unable to acheive he had with him. and it cant be said as his mistake.
Every leader was free to do what he wished to do.
INC did not stop JP to propagate his socialist ideology. It did not stop Joshi and Ray to propagate communist ideology. It did not stop Jinnah to be part of it. He was free to join it or leave it as he did when followed muslim extremist ideology.
Any of the seconed level leader, whoever is in your mind, was free to fulfil his dream if he had vast vision and capability to fulfil it.
—-
when you mention that Gandhi’s dreamy ideas were flourished by Patel, Raja Ji or Maulana Azad then none of them was working to stop mad people involved in riots because they were dependent on positions. Gandhi had that capacity to jump directly in to the fire to stop it. There should be something in him which was not in others and hence masses adopted him more than rest of the leaders. One cant attack Gandhi by taking resort of other names. One has to consider every aspect.
@Anand (129)
Its not me who is taking their name in same line. Its they who take resort of Tilak’s teachings and have been twisting and torning them as per their own sick aims. :(
We have past and present before us to see whats good for society in overall manner. Rest all is theoretical.
@Krishn(117-121)
thanks for the quotes. If you can post link of the book/articles etc from where you have taken excerpts then people may read something more
RK!
There is no dichotomy in my first and second comments.
The first comment was to bring about “Gandhi” the individual who had an aggression inside him and it was not at a physical level – at the intellectual level – he never put his principles and decisions through self scrutiny. There were million times when his decisions and thoughts were challenged by “Stalwarts” of INC. His response was not to become flexible, but remain firm in the face of mountain of evidence, both practical and common sense against his “difficult to be followed by mass” ideologies. While he called off the first non-cooperation movement on the grounds of ‘violence on britishers’, the second non-cooperation movement or the quit India movement became a blood shed against the britishers , in the time of the “war” that INC had supported. Gandhi did not go on fast to call off quit india movement. Because he knew that his “slow and pacifist’ movement has got him the name of “mahatma”, but his countrymen had grown tired and destroyed by famines(bengal famines) and plagues and atrocities since the 1930 resolution calling for “Purna Swaraj”. And pls dont even open the topic of “Gandhi – Irwin” pact blunder.Many things he did and decided were his own thoughts and leaders like Rajaji and Patel were left crushing their empty hands and banging their foreheads most of the time at the “Level” of brightness and leadership Gandhi and Nehru demonstrated throughout freedom movement. This is a debate to be fought on a different portal – probably in our blog spots as it will take us farther away from our united passion – Cinema.
@Jaiganesh(133),
Past, where we were not present, comes before us like a film and hence its more than possible that we are quite subjective towards same things, same events and same persons.
Viewing is individualistic and we each draw different conclusions. so we should let it be so.
Its very much possible that on any forum we may not have same understanding about same things.
Even on this forum, for cinema we all keep different views and co exist.
Thank you for your detailed comments@};-
Gandhi follower Baba Amte passed away-
President Patil says
“Baba Amte is a great example of a person who committed his life for the welfare of the destitute and needy,” the President, who is on a visit to Jalgaon, said in her condolence message.
PM pays tribute..
The Prime Minister, in his condolence message, described Amte as a legend, and said the Gandhi Peace Prize winner’s work in the upliftment of leprosy patients puts him in a unique class of great national figures.
“It is with a deep sense of grief and loss that I heard about the demise of Baba Amte. A true Gandhian who worked hard to uphold Gandhian values in their true spirit, Baba Amte became a legend in his own lifetime,” the Prime Minister said.
He said that Amte’s efforts to unite people on national and Gandhian values and to eliminate all forms of discrimination and bias makes him a ’saint of our times’.
“In this hour of sorrow, my heart reaches out to all those associated with Baba Amte and his millions of admirers across the nation. I pay homage to a truly great son of India,” he said.
Baba Amte did amazing works. Osho Rajneesh, when during his student days was working as a journalist also in the night, had following to say about the man
“Just that day I had published an article on Baba Amte. Very few people know about the man that he has devoted his whole life to the lepers, he has made a beautiful place for the lepers in Maharashtra. Thousands of lepers and he has proved it wrong that just by remaining in touch with lepers you will be infected. He lives with them, his wife lives with them, his children live with them and they all serve them and he has made all those thousands of lepers again human beings because they are all producing something. If their hands cannot do, then their feet can do something. If their feet cannot do, their hands can do something. Not a single leper is unproductive. And he has given them dignity. Otherwise they were thrown out of their towns, they were not allowed in the towns, nobody was ready even to talk to them, nobody was ready to give them any work. Now this man should be talked about.
There may be many people who may become Baba Amte. There may be many people who may be lepers somewhere suffering, may go to his beautiful place. He calls it `Anandvan’–the forest of bliss. And it is a beautiful forest and something worth seeing, that how people which have been for centuries condemned can be raised back to dignity, to self-respect; now they are earning their own food, their own clothes and they are not dependent on anybody. You will be surprised that Baba Amte’s colony donates to many charitable institutions.
And when I used to go to his colony the people were so happy that we can help other people who are helpless just as we were helpless some day.
“So let your circulation drop. I know that Baba Amte will not increase your circulation…Ravi Shankar will not increase your circulation. But don’t be worried, I will not be heavy on you. I can force to remain for one year here to finish your firm, but I will not be heavy on you, I can understand you. So I can withdraw myself. You raise your circulation.”
—
A great soul.
Those who are interested in knowing more about how Britain simply sucked the resouces of India should search a book “The Case for India” written by Will Durant. More about him can be read at following link.
http://www.willdurant.com/qa.htm
His book “”The Case for India” was published in 1930 and British Govt. had seiged almost all the copies and they were destroyed.
Its said that recently in 2007 onee copy of the book has been found .
Durant had described in the book all the loot Britishers did in India. He analytically describes the economical condition of India before Britishers reached there and its supreme position in world business. India alone contributed more than 25% in the Industrial production which was maximum world wide only followed by China with a contribution around 21-22%. And when Britishers left India then it was reduced to 2% only.
Some people think and opine that India got progress under Britishers- This is progress, reduction of business from 25% to 2% and at the same time Britain’s economic prosperity increased.
At whose cost?
Robert Clive first sent a ship from Bangal state of India and ship was having money equivalent to 4M USD (Value of that time) and later how many ships were sent to England, that is not easy to count.
All the buildings and monuments for which Tourists come to India from all over world, none of them was constructed by Britishers and they were constructed much before they came here.
No imperialist ever does good for the land and its people where they go to expand their kingdom. They go there to loot their wealth and bring it to their original place.
ofcourse we do not .. im glad he was bumped off !
@filmi bhai(138),
my sorrow or your gladness, dont matter on that topic.
My liking and your disliking dont matter. He was always above these things and he is very well above now of these things.
He is an object and a subject now. Liking or disliking, decide your life’s progress or decline and not his.
Its how you understand and support or marr good things.
As I said in another comment on another post, Not his life history which is important but parables around him which matter for humanity and people all over the world look for those parables. Minds full of inertia look for historical lessons.
Between you and your life:)
well i like certain things abt him .. especially his work for the oppressed , his ideas of truth..
but at the end of the day he was a stubborn idiot
do u know how many lakhs innocent ppl died becoz of him ?? most of the hindus and sikhs in lahore and nwfp were contemplating crossing the border over to india in july and at the beginning of August .. but Gandhi the idiot told them to stay back .. and u know what .. they were massacred almost down to the last man at the date of partition .. not one sikh was left alive in nwfp .. now who is responsible for that .. but for gandhi’s advice, they wudve been safely back to india before the major riots erupted arnd 14-15 august.
a true mahatma could be one who fights against evil . unfortunately gandhi played the devil’s advocate .
the congress party created a halo around him which suits them just fine
and for all this bullshitting abt gandhigiri .. i’d like to know how gandhi wudve fared in front of a jehadi suicide bomber .. i bet he would lift his loin and run for dear life !
@Filmibhai,
You must curse Godse else Gandhi could have got opportunity to work on you also;).
If not oppressed but sometimes you must be feeling suppressed.;)
Well you dont need to search any liking inside you for him. He is no more, liking disliking towards a person does not help you or anyone to live own life. Ideas of others are always ideas of others so even liking ideology etc is worthless unless one is incorporating the essence.
—-
No comment on second paragraph of your comment.
—-
Gandhi could have died in front of a jehadi suicide bomber as nobody can do anything before them. They generally dont have time to see change in heart.
Jehadi of LTTE killed Rajiv Gandhi. Nobody could do anything.
Jehadis of Bhindrawale killed Indira Gandhi, one could not stop them.
In short term One cant stop suicidal jehadis.
But in long term during his life time Gandhi might have changed many jihadis.
—-
Even your hateful concern about Gandhi is praiseworthy. Its better than avoidance.
a sasta sa…. (where order of words may be wrong)
Khul to gaye hain baton hee baton mein
raste par aa jayenge aur do char mulakaton mein
:d
i knew u’d comepletely ignore the account of his ’sagely’ advice resulting in the cold-blooded massacre of lakhs of hindus and sikhs in pakistan and reply only to the last paragraph .
lets leave it .. neither u nor i wud come around
@Filmibhai,
Thats not account. thats how you are quoting it. and considering I cant known on my own, the mysteries about your account, I did not comment on that.
Please bring anything significant/substantial and I will be joining duet, chorus whatever you want.
For the behaviour you are following, a poem is given in very begining.
Do I need to reiterate it again and again. If you feel you dont fall in that category only then you must make some comment.
Just to provoke (by 1-2 liners) is not very healthy trait. Or is it?
Things should have support in you/from your side.
Personal impression dont matter much. as they change at various stages of life. @};-
RK ok u want the source ??
read the book ‘LAhore 1947′ by a pakistani Ahmad Salim . in that very book its mentioned . it has many chapters by various distinguished authors (khushwant singh , Amrita Pritam ,Madan Lal Khurana , Fikr Taunsvi , many other reputed indian and pakistani authors ).
dont give me poems brother .. no poem is worth a million lives
@filmibhai,
Thank you for naming your source.
So you basically are saying that this book tells you what you wrote in your comment 140?
You are saying that Khushwant Singh, Amrita Singh, Fikr Tausvin and many other reputed writers (Madan Lal Khurana is not a writer but a politician of a particular ideology) have mentioned in their articles there that Million (from your comment it seems you are covering 1M hindus and sikhs) Hindu and Sikhs simply stayed in newely born Pakistan because Gandhi asked them to do so and later Muslims killed them?
Wow that means these hindus and sikhs were very staunch followers of Gandhi that stayed there to be killed.
fantastic.
If your 1M include only Hindus and sikhs then where muslims will go who were killed in same riots? or they deserved to be killed because they were going to a new nation?
You are right no poem or rather anything is worth a million lives. Poem is to suggest that if one falls in that category shown there then one does not need to waste his/her energy. As person is hardcore anti Gandhi – the subject here and s/he does not need to go further. Only if s/he is open and believes that s/he may not know all things and there may be other accounts only then s/he should go down and should bother to participate.
Or discuss about Gandhi- the film.
^^ dont just yap mate .. go and read the book .. its not a book abt someone expounding his/her ideologies .. its a book where ppl narrate factual incidents (like muslim authors who narrate incidents of muslims burning down hindu n sikh colonies in lahore or hindu authors who narrates killings of muslims in amritsar) or read any other book that contains authentic history .. not ur nehru ji inspired school history text book .. will do ur worldvision a lot of good.
or stay naive .. gud luck
@filmibhai,
I dont need to yap.
1) As you have good shelter in books so reccomonding Triology of Hansraj Rehbar
a) Gandhi Benakab
b) Nehru benakab
c) Ghalib benakab
If you have not read them by now, Your soul may get high level satsifaction from his writings.
—–
2)For a good read in fictions you may try Yashpal’s “Jhutha Sach”.
——
3)Its always better to be naive. Congrats to you on getting clever status. Hope you maintain it in life and live happily:)
——
4)This is one’s choice if he likes to fret over the issue who made Taj Mahal or just enjoy the simply beauty of one of the world’s most beautiful man made monuments.
an egoistic and boasting muslim can be rightly given argument that there are many loop holes in the theory that Shahjahan arranged construction of Taj Mahal and actually it may Tajo Mahal.
But this argument has this use only.
Who made it, serves no purpose in todays life of people. Its an absurd question for common men.
Historians may go and fight over this issue but its text book research area.
sensible man has to see the importance of Taj Mahal in present life. Its highly beautiful. It serves positive purposes towards men. It still earns a very good amount of revenue for India.
–
same is applied to all other good things.
Rest its not concern how much you like something/somebody or how much you hate something/somebody.
My concern is what good a “Noun” is doing towards humanity.
—-
There is no such thing as authentic history in world. If you have found one then you may be included as 8th wonder in the list of wonders.
It can be even equivalent to miracle.
i can’t understand gandhiji MAI GANDHI KO NAHI KHOJ PAYA wheather he is right or wrong
@alekh gour,
Nothing to worry.
Gandhi the person was killed long ago.
apne ko khojna hee sabse bada kaam hai sabse badee baat hai.