IN DEFENCE OF THE “I”
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You know when they bring up their children in the mountains, especially in tibet, and their child sees the burning firewood and walks to it, they let him, when he wants to touch it, they let him, when he touches it and screams and cries, they let him , they ignore him, and that’s how the child learns to deal with fire..this is also what the monks do..
My dad always said something that i never forgot..he said “poot sapoot to ka dhan sanchay poot kapoot to ka dhan sanchay”.. it means why do you save money for your children, If your son is a good son he will earn his own, if he turns out to be a brat he will throw it away.. and he never did save and all three of us are independent and had never taken from him, since we left college..
I know a lot of people right here on pfc who wants to be filmmakers but can’t because they do not have the heart to lose their sense of security.. a lot of people do the mundane jobs they don’t want to but do not step out because they get insecure.. rahoonga kahan, khaoonga kya, paise kahan se aayenge, i can love them but not respect them.. the best way to make anyone an individual self is to abandon them.. when you do they stand up on their own and they do not need role models, they go out and do it because there is an urgent need to survive.. that need takes over everything..i write this because people ask me that why did i not explain the end.. You know in Black friday the end was explained, and everyone called it great cinema and they will watch it a zillion times but in the end it remains just that, great cinema..it has stopped bothering people, they don’t think about the 93 bomb blasts.. they do not think about the lives lost, the politics, nothing, they revisist their favourite sequences and say wow and that’s it.. i do not remember such heated discussion anywhere after the BF release, i even tried to initiate it but none happenned.. One lone post was about continuity jerks and cinema issues.. none about the event.. with NS all that has changed..
Why does everyone want to get it? and will you still like it if you do get it? wouldn’t you say-that’s it!!! is that all you were trying to say..
why the eagerness to gen(e)re[alize] everything? why the symbols used have to be perfect? aren’t symbols about “what’s the best way i can say what i want to say, because what i want to say i already know, and i also know if i say it directly they wouldn’t let me” .. so if i do not find the perfect symbolism should i not say it? should i shut up? looks like? should i let go of my soul? what does my soul signify? is it not me? me with my imperfections?
No smoking does not make a valid point, it tortures you and then laughs at you, the same way i have felt the world do..forget the end.. lets come to the begining.. did anyone read what it said, what the film is about is spoken in the three captions in the beginning, but no one wants to connect.. who is abbas, he is a writer, he has lost his two fingers, the ones with which he holds the cigarette and also holds the pen, what does the pen mean to a writer, freedom of expression, and abbas’s freedom is taken, he is soulless and he doesn’t feel anything even while manipulating his friend, and what does he want the most more than his friends, his freedom back.. did anyone decipher that .. no.. they were too busy being thrilled..did anyone listened to what baba had to say.. he did not agree with democracy, he had his own take on it, he is the man who deems himself more powerful which he is, he thrives on who, minorities(woman in veils) and underprivileged(dwarfs) and his fanatics(teeka toting henchmen).. he lives in his own hell..which is hell from the audiences POV.. when K enters there he wishes for an elevator and a much more straighter designs, not the maze of stairs.. he does it straight.. but baba doesn’t..you see the man’s entry but never his exit.. did anyone think of it .. no.. did anyone listen to baba saying aatma, antaratma, bhogi hoti hai use mukt karna padta hai..if you really heard that.. the ending won’t be so strange..there is a definition of democracy i used in GULAAL and tried to use in GURU..
“Democracy is for the (Powerful) people
By the (Powerful) people
Of the (Powerful) people”
the wife, when she decides to leave her husband, she plays inky pinky ponky.. the man to her is as inconsequential as his cigarette, the wife and the secretary .. two different facets of a woman a man wants to see, the complex, dignified trophy wife and the completely servile slut, and what kind of a man is he.. an arrogant fuck up, not the man you would look up to or sympathise with.. do men like those exist.. yes they do.. i am a similar asshole or was or maybe still is.. just more aware that i am a slut too.. it would have been so easy to make him sympathetic and today i really wish i did make him sympathetic.. baba bengali is winning or has won.. did any one hear the song phoonk de .. the words spoken in english ..
“you have travelled a hole…………to………you will now experience the power to change the semantic sensory feel that influences the final consequences of your journey, you are now at the limits of the multi(uni)verse but not beyond the space of this stream”
Noone heard that.. what does that prove .. that people do not listen and either they are deaf (like in the film) or they don’t want to pay so much attention.. it creates the same situation as in the film.. this film was my angst and now mirrors my life.. only difference being i know what’s happening .. it was expected and i have learnt from it.. will be more accessible next time.. i swear everyone, even the infant will understand what i am trying to say in HANUMAN RETURNS.. i need that to survive, and survivor i am..
OK so getting back to explaining what i intended, admitting i wasn’t so successful at it.. from the point K falls into the water in the police station(there is a voice over there too- jin jin logon ne poore paise nahi bhare hain etc,that connects it with the last scene), it is the journey of the soul, by which i mean the internal agony of the man, trying to make a choice, trying to decipher what did he do to deserve this, is this the price one pays for his ego, to choose between the cigarette and the bathtub, and when he chooses the bathtub he is choosing to negate himself hence being completely owned by the baba..
it is not just the body that looses soul, it’s also the soul(read idealism, belief, spirit) loosing a body.. that gets evaporated while it is watching.. the idea is lost..
Now where that comes from.. i wrote a poem on my wall years ago when i was doped out.. my idea of an ego, my interpretation of selfishness..
A big drop of sperm was falling from the sky
Mother (earth ) quaked for it and conceived it
and I bloomed out
That is how the idea was born..
I do not want to bore anyone, but that explains it ,my POV, ego comes from I and I is when you have an idea of self.. and selfishness is not that shallow definition of what you can take or gain from others.. to me
“Selfishness is the ferocity with which you protect the I”
, hence the “Idea” and to the world “your Ego”..and arrogance is just a defence mechanism that the selfish man has against the enemy..
And the fact that i have the need to defend myself proves that i have yet not perfected selfishness or maybe i am too clever and know exactly what i am doing.. my argument is should a man be punished for his arrogance.. yes if he harms others by doing the act.. but what if his arrogance is aloof.. who is he harming except himself..
there are many interpretations floating around of the film.. well i lost my authority over the film the day it released.. it was open to interpretation like any work of art or anything pretending as a work of art.. but various interpretations do provoke a thought in my subconscious.. did i really intend that, i don’t know.. the whole film was stewed over in my head over last eight years, years ago it was a straight story from quitters inc ( the first half of it, because that is how much ramu told me) , but it kept changing with my life.. i don’t even know when and how it became my story, i only realised it after writing it.. i wrote it in one flow like everyother script over two days or three..it was a stream of subconscious.. i just wrote..
and now i have learnt.. that success is important.. and i have learnt that the audienca needs to be served and i will.. but i would rather provoke them than please them, i would rather force them to go back to the world they came from than provide an escape route, i would rather unsettle them than to put a smile on there face, i would rather make them feel impotent than to make them feel virile, i would rather show them the mirror than show them a photograph of their best selves, i would rather make their nightmare come true than realise their dreams..but this time they would know what’s happening.. they will know it while they are getting raped.. they will understand every bit of it.. none are going to lose their modesty without knowing it..
I have learnt my lesson..and with that i try to say goodbye to no smoking and apologise once and for all to all those who wasted their time and money over it.. Better luck next time..
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
you’ve killed a part of all that’s resonated with you by saying this
and here we were, thinking we had a chance
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i did. i did it all..left the safety of the regular employment, the saftety net of the parents, the family, one year into marriage..asked her to take care of the rent, the house, the life…and took the plunge.
made a lousy looking film with a concept i believed in with 10 grand..
but i did it…am still proud of it. and only because of you anurag.
since then have made two more. each with increasing budgets. am being paid for what i wanna do.
and again i repeat..its cause of u.
today im at a crossroad, am being offered what my peers want the most, a commercial film…can i do it? i want to..so bad.
but the dilemnas never end. creativity vs commercial returns. if i make a 0.1% of no smoking, ill die a happy man..but if i do that,,my producer backs out..if i make what he wants me to make…i cant sleep at night.
questions, answers and conscience.
i salute u sir.
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Well..finally..good write up…ths could satiate a lot of queries floated since the release of NS.Quite deep..good!!
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PRP we still have a chance.. you are the chance.. think about that.. and when you do it i will stand up and applaud you..
I am still me.. just would be more accesible
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People want the safe confines of there homes,their regular jobs , marriege kids and all those sort of normal things in life.But all this is a somewat boring and tiresome for few men, who dare to think different and wana enjoy the teen patti of life and the big risks attached to it.
You dont have to defend wat u have done with this movie or any other thing in life , you just did wat u felt.How many people have the guts to do wat they really wana do without caring about wat others will think.You are the only judge of u r own creations.
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Anurag- As I have requested in another place, please have your commentary on the DVD when it releases.
And maybe just like Vishal Bhardwaj tries to make a children’s movie every couple of films, maybe you can too. Make your kind of movie whenever you can. Have the cake and eat it.
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Why do you have to apologise..even to the people who could not quite connect with you? You want to be mass accessible..would not that manifest into selling outto an extent and lose your arrogance? It is the individual arrogance which helps to survive..personally in my case too!
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Dazed, Hanuman is my childrens movie.. Vishal’s children films are more mature than the adult hits which is why he is a great filmmaker.. my children’s film is entertainment and nothing else and it is called Hanuman returns..
as far as the DVD is concerned i don’t know, i have put across my intention to do a commentary, and now it’s upto them..
Errata..do it
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Anurag,
When I first butted heads with you on PFC I became angry with you and then decided to watch BF and I wrote a comment about it, but you must have not read it, because I told you that besides being a great movie I had learned about an event I had never heard of. Your movie to me was like a history class and it did bother me to know innocent lives were lost, so I thank you for that history lesson.
Even though I loved NS I think it would be interesting to see what you do with straight forward storytelling and then maybe you will find your success in India or you might have to set your sites to somewhere beyond India.
….BUT, if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have ventured beyond my masala Bollywood films. I wouldn’t have gone from BF to NS to Manorama and eventually even opening up to older Indian cinema like Sholay which Tony Mera advised me to watch. If it wasn’t for you I would have said “I don’t want to watch that old fashioned stuff”, but I opened up to Tony’s suggestion because I had my mind opened up by you.
Anyway, I doubt if my words will mean a lot to you,but I felt moved to write them after reading this new blog…..and I hope in the future someone will eventually apologise to you.
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Saurav.. i tried hard to stay off PFc before i realised it is my life.. I am here.. more so because i have not finished either talking or doing..
My apology is to people who paid money to see the film after seeing the bipasha song, which was a mistake, a con to get an opening, and wasn’t the film.. the apology is not for the movie.. but for the deciet of which i became a part..
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Hey Anurag,
Even though i still haven’t seen no smoking,
Well if you didn’t quit while making it i don’t think i will after watching it.
i can understand your predicament and believe that you are truly gifted(not just as a film maker but also as a human being)and also ahead of time.you are not arrogant you are a stand alone army trying to hold on to ur slice of land and fighting a brigade of the spineless s’BUT THE FUCK UP is that everyone wants everything instant-solutions,results,sex,noodles and also entertainment(not neccessarily in that order).Nowadays they want to leave their brains behind and spend their hard earned money on senseless flicks..how the hell will they understand No smoking my friend??!! Some of my friends who has seen the film,loved it n told me i’ll quit smoking after watching it(i wonder)
;)cheers.
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and not sleep at night? lose face to an extent where i cant face myself? face u?
on the other hand…can i run my house doing what i want to do…the way i want to?
on one side is a chance to make something with my name..which may just turn out to be an outlandish comedy…an alan smithee film anyone?
on the other hand i may never get this kind of a chance again?
it tears me every day..and as d day approaches…i hate to keep lying about my sensiblities for work.
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HEy Anurag glad to have you back.. I haven’t posted much- as of yet- but I know its never to late to start. Btw can you send me your email address at yatra55@gmail.com. I had written something the day I watched “no smoking”. I would rather you read it first and if you feel fit you can repost it on PFC. thanks man. Keep on reinventing indian cinema and open the floodgates for us aspiring directors
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Novadz i really just want to slowly find an audience like everyone else and a large one.. and i read everything on PFC.. it is my world.. i belong here.. and i really appreciate you for being open and i regret my meanness to you..
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NoVaDJ- Sholay will never become ‘Older Indian Cinema’. It is evergreen like Rekha and good Scotch
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Errata.. do it .. do them both.. one for the money and other for the road.. did i not do shaka laka and main aisa hi hoon and lot’s more.. do one for your yourself and one for the way to do it for yourself..lie.. cheat..kill for it..
devil’s check your mail..
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It may well be impossible to be entirely true to one’s self and one’s vision while ensuring a good reception at the hands of the audience. Limitations brought about by budgets and consequences do inevitably weigh us down. I made a short film called
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Madhav..balance can be anywhere.. but i think one should strike balance in life but not in individual piece of work.. one dish can not and should not try to cater to everyone.. it can wish it but not do it.. make two dishes to strike the balance and more if need be, but each individual dish should be true to itself..
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thx for this and more.
you gave me a boost in morale when i was at my lowest in life. u gave me a new lease in life. so please forgive me if i come across the way i do.
ill do it..i just hope my conscience allows me too.
ill do this for the money, but the one for the road..is the one which you’ll do..or at least i hope so.
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I failed to do it.. because i made the film i wanted to but used the bipasha song to advertise it.. and that is what i am paying for.. that was a mistake..
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No apologies necessary, as far as I’m concerned. I haven’t seen Black Friday (I don’t think it released here in Dubai), and I wasn’t planning on going to see No Smoking, but then the overwhelmingly negative reviews started pouring in from the usual suspects, and that told me it had to be good!
I enjoyed every second of it. I know a lot of people will tell you that it is a profound film, a work of art etc. etc. (and don’t get me wrong, it is all that) but let me tell you that I was *entertained* for two hours. There haven’t been many movies this year — Hindi especially — that have done that (the last one was Honeymoon Travels).
Like you say, once the film was released it was out of your hands, but I’m glad to read your take on some of the themes and elements in there. Yes, I did notice the English voice over in phoonk de. No, I didn’t find any part of the film confusing (but then, I didn’t find MF Hussain’s Meenaxi confusing either). It’s been a long time since a big, juicy and sumptuously intelligent movie has come along, and you delivered. And how.
Any issues I had with the film were miniscule. Okay, okay, so the English subtitles were’t great (they never are in Hindi films, always full of Indian grammar), mostly because of the dozens of swear words that just seemed to be thrown in there even when they weren’t any in the spoken dialogue. As a graphic designer I also had a few issues with the comic speech bubbles, but that’s just my own pet peeve.
Believe it or not, the short bits of nudity when the gas chamber bit is on tv actually made it past the Dubai censors. Don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t think they were paying attention :P
Whatever your next project is, I hope you approach it with the same intelligence, passion and finesse that you brought to No Smoking.
You now officially have one more fan, and are guaranteed at least two people will see your next movie (me and whoever I drag along).
V
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Yea..that makes sense…apology justified to an extent…the movie was dangerously niche..too niche..with your post..the puzzlepieces which was slightly loose at the end..with minor gaps..are tightened. Very brave atempt..Dont know how you managed the transition from sript to screen…half the people always lose the insight in transit.
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thanks mate… I am at work right now so expect something within a few hours… glad to see a prompt reply though… I agree slowly but surely PFC is becoming my life… I find myself on it more so than work work!!! I am glad I am taking some time off to visit India and perhaps get inundated with the fim business first hand… a long winding road ahead but wouldn’t have it any other way!!!
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Errata.. You know No Smoking i think was necessary.. because this one film taught me more about the world than my thirteen years in the industry.. we all learn more from our failures..
What is important is how you protect your baby and not how the world judges you in the process of doing so..
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@Anurag
Thank you for that ,because I was feeling down today and you made me feel better….
@Dazed&Confused
I almost wrote the word classic, but I wasn’t sure what it was considered…..all I know is watching it was an experience and I’ll be showing Sholay to all my friends! I also recently saw “The Burning Train”, which except for a few unfortunate obvious model train shots was still suspensful.
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Thanks Anurag, for your quick response.
I’m new to PFC and recently made a submission for the one minute film contest.
I write regularly and have a few screenplays worked out. Do drop me a line at madhav@bad-alliteration.com if you have the time or inclination to take a look at some of them.
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i agree. that one baby of mine is what has had me going on till now. cant get it out of my head…
i hope it makes that one person proud because of whom it has reached where it has today.
no smoking was necessary.. i agree..it may have been too ahead of its times…
when i wrote that one script and made it into a film…the ridicule, the humiliation taught me a lot..and today when i am at this stage..i dunno whether to rejoice or not.
failure has made me take everything with a pinch of salt. to a point where its difficult to be anything but a pessimist.
but that had changed when i saw NS.
i paid for my entire friend circle to see the film. and i wasnt disappointed. me and my wife spoke about it on the bike on the way home, at home over dinner, at breakfast, post work..and we were still not finished.
ditto for a few of my friends.
but with that one film, anurag you may not have gained commercial gains…what you have given is hope…tothe industry (though they may not realize it now), to people like me and to those who would see this is as not an arrogant piece of work, but one of true angst and desire for change
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Anurag,
I’m sure you learned a lot about visual effects on NS ,so that was worth it also. My favorite was the heat effect that sometimes moved about the frame.
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Anurag,
every one has their insecurities and very few get beyond it….ppl like me are dieing to make films and make it accessible to the world….but there is other world in which we live..we need to support our family….earn our bread (paying emi’s)…and our conscience doesn’t allow to be selfish to chase our dreams….may be some years later when we are financially secure we can go ahead…but then will it be late ?….definetly not late to chase our dreams but about acheiving them , i dont know….
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Anand.. you know it but you are scared to addrees it..
TO DO IS TO BE
TO BE IS TO DO
DO BE DO BE DO
it defines all of us .
what you want to do is not necessarily what you do.. but what you do becomes you in the way u are perceived..
i have paid my EMI’s and my rent regularly and have learnt to seperate what i do for myself and for others to be able to do it for myself..
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Vishal K Bharadwaj.. just one word.. thanks
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Sorry for the multiple posts, but all thoughts are coming to me at once….
When will the NS DVD be released? I used to hate EROS DVD’s because they were mastered all wrong, but now that they have merged with Ayngaryn their last few releases were great. They now master in HD and picture quality is excellent and they put lots of extras on them. It would be cool to have a Director’s Cut and you could do it anyway you want.
It’s funny about the merger because I wrote EROS a long email explaining how awful their quality was and that they should find out how and where Ayngaryn master’s their DVD’s and a few months later they merged!:o
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Anurag if you remember I wrote some time back about how important for it is to find commercial success and stability before even attempting anything unconventional as these fuckers in the industry will dabao you down? We all pinned our hopes on Ramu at one point of time…He had it all..He had the market eating right out of his hand, he had the power to change and encourage a new wave, instead, he took a different route and we all became discouraged.
First show these fuckers the mirror before giving them a painting, that’s what they deserve now…later on…you can slowly make your move…you can’t shock these people suddenly….
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Anurag,
That is exactly what i am trying to learn…to balance your needs and your dreams… i will be glad enough to chase my dreams..even if i dont achieve them(hoping to achieve them though)…..
BTW No smoking rocked for me…i have already seen it thrice..and now hoping to catch it on dvd whenever it is out….my wife hated it but i dragged her to view it with me all the times….
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anuraag sir i might be too young and inferior to comment on any film for that matter, atleast for now but i never understood why you talked so much about your failure and short comings, ur apologies
BUT, you never said anuthing about the marketing strategy for the film which if you ask anyone was far below the standard, why didnt you market the film properly?? push hard to make it a success, get people in just for curiosity. it seemed to me that you were done just by making the film.
AND WHY WHY WHY? do you apologise to the people who came in after watching the bipasha song, i thought you believed that one has to do everything in his power to get success, and if you can get people into the theatre by showing a song, then WHY NOT!!!
to me that is just intelligent marketing not cheating the audience.
P.S- love ur film, hopefully you will follow this up with another shocker.
thank you for the experience.
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Saw No Smoking yesterday and I loved it better than most of the movies this year ! Still thinking about the movie :-? . I don’t understand how anyone can’t appreciate this movie ! I liked Black Friday but NS was even better.
I think the critics have been completely dumbed down by the quality of the Hindi movies they watch and review all the time. To hell with their opinions ! I just hope that after getting slammed by these “critics” , AK won’t change his style of movie making and start trying to cater to the so called commercial movie public.
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hmmmm….well,money isn’t everythin….
my parents have been divorced for quite some time…dn’t remember even,but it hurts…n it still does…
my point here is…eventhough i’m financially secured…i dn’t have anyone with me…my mom,dad n bro.all live separately…my bro thinks tht whatever he has achieved till now is thnkfully due to my parents separation….but i’m still mum about my opinions,cos i’m still directionless….i dn’t know if i should be thankful like my brother,cos i’m gettin the opportunity to live on my own…make my own decisions…i have no one to answer anythin…if i want i could just go around fulfillin my pleasure with any tom,dick n harry…but i won’t…there’s still somethin tht i’m lookin forward to….i still miss somethin tht we all four of us had in the past…
i dn’t even know what i’m complaining about…stayin in this city(sorry,i don’t want to reveal certian information),for the last 5 years…from one place to another…shift,move out and thrown out too(well, the third one was because i refused to go with my owner’s nasty agreement…dn’t mind his nasty remarks than agree with somethin tht will make me lose myself completely…
mom n dad call me everyday….tht’s really nice of them…but i know deep within tht they want to know if i’m being a brat takin advantage of the situation…whereas,it’s the opposite…i can’t even think of doin it cos of it….
kashyap…i like callin u this….i dn’t know exactly what i’m tryin imply here by writting all this…i just felt,after readin u post,tht i could write somethin…eventhough it’s random n probably mindless too…u just gave me the opportunity to write it…
i dn’t expect a reply from u for this,cos i’m pretty sure u havn’t got most of what i have written…i’m being open here,but it’s not completely open yet…i have forgotten how to be candid with my feelings…u r really good with tht…i’ve lost in touch with it….
they say tht men are the most difficult beings..as in,a lot has been potrayed in the films..for instance,no smokin…but i think i’m one of the kinds too…n i refuse to mellow down…y is it necessary tht women remain the most calm on?….i wish there was a character like this too in our films….a mystery tht refuses to be solved…
sorry about the whole nonsense stuff tht i have written….but i thnk u for the moment,cos i have felt somethin….n also somethin missin…
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Arey Anurag ji kahe maafi maang rahe ho.Aapne no smoking banaai,logon ne paisa lagaya kyonki unhen aap pe vishvaas tha..aab agar har film banane se pehle ya phir banane ke duraan iss baat ka pata chal jaye ki film hit hai ya miss to in bechhare critics ka to dhanda hi baand ho jayega!!Aapne ek imandar film banaye thodi over the top hone ki vajay se aap imandaari se maafi maang rahe ho yeh aap ki sharafat hai…lekin kuch aise bhi hain jo itna bhi nahi karte.
Kal maine ek’blue film’ dekhi…arey wahi saawariya..bahut se sawaal mann mein uthe
1.yeh kaun sa neela shahar hain hamare desh mein?
jahan sab kuch hi neela aur unreal hai.
2.yahan kissi bhi raat ki subah nahi.where people stay indoors during the day and are the creatures of the blue nights.
3.is shahar mein basne wali auratein ya to zyada umer ke hain(begum para and amazing zohra sehgal)with exception being sonam kapoor ya phir prostitutes hain..i thought they should paint the town red instead they painted it blue!
4.A town which is called the old town,but has everything from a local darzi to carpet weaver,meena bazar,a moulin rouge.Where every god every faith exists,-A huge buddha sculpture,mother mary in the background,a mosque..a blessed town indeed but houses only whores.
I don’t look for logic in all the films lekin itna surreal,Kya kahe isse??…Indulgence in the name of cinema.People walked out of the theatre after 30mins..of course i sat thru the blues of saawariya…that too without an apology!!
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How do I explain what I am feeling now after this post,today in the office I was sitting on my desk and was thinking majority of the people hate me…………………….
They look at me with disgust,distaste, and why? because I don’t interact much with them,I just don’t feel like,I remain within myself,that leaves them with an inferiority complex that how can he be so aloof how can he be so arrogant,he shows airs………………………
They try to gain my attention in all possible ways,doing shitty things,mocking,some day could even reach the point of dancing naked in front of me and then I close my eyes and think of Howard Roark,I get broken down within and try to be 1% like him,that gives me strength,power to fight…………..
I feel I go through a nervous beakdown everyday,for people whom I am not concerned with try to barge in my life for no reason at all,call me arrogant but I haven’t hurt them but since I am not a complete Howard Roark I get hurt too and most of the times arrogance only increases,fire increases,passion increases……………….
I wish the world had more of people who would do rather than screw……………
No Smoking is my story,it is the story of every struggling man who thrives in this world of Tooheys’ and I hope I dont end up being a Toohey,even a Steven Mallory would do for me…..
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Kalakar.. neela shahar Jodhpur.. maine nahi dekhi par dekhunga jaroor..
666.. man do not give up and i know you won’t and don’t stop expecting..call me kashyap or whatever do not lose yourself..let all the confusion and angst drive you to express.. people who are no good at articulating often create better,,
UMA thanks but btw which city and theatre did you see it at yesterday.. can’t find any place it is still running at..
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abhishek just be and they hate you for you can be yourself.. you can laugh at them..
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@triplesix
you say money isn’t everything and I feel bad for what you are going thru, but try it without having the money….like me. I’m jaded these days, but money is everything. I tried to end it all last Nov because I couldn’t pay my bills, I hated my job, and my best friends left town and I had no parents .. The doctors that saved me than wanted their money….the only thing that made me feel a little better was watching my Indian movies.
…so be happy that’s one problem you don’t have.
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machhar.. i will do that
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Anurag,
I won’t say I liked your film, but it did make me think….so in it it was succesful.
About the philospohical questions raised by the movie…the world is not really dark as you potray it. People are indeed preoccupied with their own survival, but there is a kinder gentler side to people too.
The journey for I is to go from dependence on people, to independence, and then realize it is really not independent, but interdependent on the world. Whenver in your career you become a big shot – you will start to support other people. The fact that there are no strong people to support budding cinema in India is just a reflection of the current state our society is in. It is not the nature of the world.
“I” and the world have an interdependent relationship. “I” has a debt to the world for its mere existance. Nature supports a person to the extent to which a person is useful to it. If your message/work is useful to the world, the world will support it. Individual is not seperate from nature, it is part of it. Nature is compassionate and very forgiving – its not a dictator as you potray. If there is a devil then there is also a god.
It makes for engaging drama, but it is only a partial truth.
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You’re most welcome, Anurag.
Re: Commentary track
I’d love to see one on the DVD, but if they don’t want to spring for studio time to record one then you could always do one like the Battlestar Galactica people do. They record a rough commentary themselves and put it online as a podcast, so people can play it on their computer or iPod or whatever while they watch the episodes.
The nice side effect of this is that you can be completely candid and uncensored
V
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u bum!! apology sucks. more u will apologise more people will make u apologise. u should be proud of NO SMOKING. dont let us down who are supporting u and who r inspired by ur so called disaster. if u want to find audience for films like no smoking, help me with what i proposed in
Rome…”independant cinema house”…how to go about it?…. what do we need?…etc. if u bother to reply, then do so on my email as i am leaving PFC in protest of ur apology..cant believe this nonsense from u..STOP APOLOGISING. after NO SMOKING something has changed in the air….have some patience and u will see the fruits of ur effort in the cinema which india is gearing up to make in the future. u r the pioneer…no smoking is the inspiration..so stop being selfish and apologetic. stop sucking the media. be “K”.
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doctor sahab like i said earlier apology is not for the film.. for the film is exactly what i wanted to make..
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I agree with tushar… dont apologize anurag. Saala saare kiye dhare par paani fir gaya…. eagerly waiting for gulal. I hope you are not tampering with it. if you do, make sure you let us know that dvd will have the original director’s cut…
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Anurag,
Any creative art is like a journey which has no end and perfection point. But definately this journey is unique in its own kind… Ups, downs hit, miss, excitement, ideas & theories. That’s why you are in this game. Its not about always winning but its about playing with whole heart and I did see you playing with passion and whole heart in NS.
I watched No Smoking, didn’t like it much but could see the enthusiasm of giving new dimensions to our cinema. That’s what matters.
There is no set formula to create a masterpiece in any form of art. The only thing in our hands is to just keep making what you want to make…One day you will create something which you will not like but people will know you from it…Is it not irony to be in a creative sphere…!
Any how still waiting for more flicks from you .
Sanjay
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AK, you are good are expressing and generating this buzz around your film (or your friend’s films, for that matter) ;)
BF and NS rocked. Making wise, did you have all your scenes penned out in sequence before you started shooting for NS? (is that what they call a “bound” script?). While watching, I couldn’t help wonder, how hard it would be for all the actors and crew to keep track of the story and know the purpose of most of the scenes (which are left to audience interpretation). How did you explain to them? How did you get the right emotions and expressions from the actor?
Sorry to break the tread of super intelligent cinema discussion with my mundane filmmaking questions :d
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No smoking was quite an experience. One of the funniest and saddest movies I have seen. Made me feel empty and desolate afterwards. And then angry about wasting away. Anger is better than feeling nothing. Sign of life.
Thank you for making this, Anurag.
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This is what makes you a genius. You come here and apologize for a film that did not pan out the way you calculated it would- get international acclaim, good reviews in the festival circuit….. Now you have all these people stroking your ego and saying -”sirjee… you are such a genius.” Why can’t you just make your films and talk about films as a creative form here instead of going on this “I” trip. It is your accessibility that has all these guys lapping up everything you say and not your creative genius. PFC should not be identified as your blog as it increasingly is, because of this drawing of lines over NS.
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hey anurag
I think that the indian audience is not matured enough to accept ur kind of films. There is nothing wrong in the films u’ve made except NS but something has to done to change the mindset of a regular movie buff..A film like swades which is a brilliant example of a socially relevant topic becomes a flop,while a mindless flick like OSO is a supersucess….though srk’s performance in swades was brilliant….people like pankaj kapoor who according to me is the best actor we have today are not commercially acceptable.. Only vishal bhardwaj makes exceptional films with brilliant actors……..Someday i want you to make films like shawshank redemption with pankaj,naseer and co
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Anurag,
Its good that you accepted it. It’s good that you wants to move on. Didn’t enjoyed your previous blog of thrashing TA and others. Every good moviegoer knows about what they are. Its good that you think about failure of No Smoking. Indian Cinema needs you and you are one person who can make it proud and change it for better.
And yes, philosophy is great but cinema is not always about philosophy.
Nik
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Anurag, you’ve written something important at the top of your article that no one is discussing here, but is on my mind currently.
So many movies make you “feel” something during the time you are in the theater and then it’s forgotten when the lights turn on. It’s as relevant to real life as a roller coaster ride. The movie’s topic is just a means to an emotional release — outrage, tears, laughter — and then you move on. I think Michael Moore’s movies often have that effect, for example.
A movie that provokes and agitates may actually have a real impact.
For me, Black Friday is not a movie without a real effect. It gives me courage to make a documentary about a topic that potentially will piss some people off and hopefully motivate many others to do better. If a few people are not pissed off, then I won’t consider the documentary engaging enough to draw in a broad audience.
But even then, I wonder, is a person who makes movies that expose the truth doing as much good as someone who actually becomes an activist and fights a good fight? It takes a lot of courage to sign your name to your honest thoughts. But are the truly courageous people doing something even greater by going out in the world? Or is there some real satisfaction in setting things in motion with your movies?
And also, you may see yourself as selfish, but your writing here is generous.
P.S. I felt Bipasha was placed at the end of NS because you had sold tickets with her image and then she didn’t fit in the middle anymore, so you still had to deliver her. True?
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Hi Anurag
Its great to see your post on PFC again! For once, I’d thought you wouldn’t write again (dunno y i thought that). Amazing post..it would have been better if you hadn’t given more details about No Smoking. It took me two viewings (and reading posts on PFC) to get some understanding and I was looking forward to more. The film did not release here, watched it on the net…am looking forward to buying it from Eros website when its uploaded. Any idea when the DVD is releasing?
Am looking forward to more of your films…and thanks for No Smoking.
Saurabh
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what the hell… i now feel cheated… why are you apologizing man… ??
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Anurag… u made a brilliant movie ! I m glad to see someone daring not to make usual bollywood crap where ladka meet ladkee, sing-sing song-song lots of them n in the end get married (recent e.g. jab we met).
I wud say movie is for intellectuals… for class nt for mass. Dont appologize for makin sth brilliant.Keep doin the good job. Be proud of ‘I’.
U started the movie with quote from Socrates. Lets
not forget…
“I think therefore I am” !
K.
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Evelyn tu- true about bips
gaurav- NS is past, need to make my next.. apology is for Guru and others..you missed the point of the post..
Kunal again apology is for cheating the audience into believing that the film is about the bipasha john song..i am incredibly proud of my film..
Guru sir sorry, am not going to go away..
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“I think, therefore I am”
Je pense, donc je suis
[ cogito ergo sum ]- Descartes [ 1637 ]
not Socrates.
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Anurag,
Most everyone seems to be missing the point of your post, just like they did with NS:-?
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It has been almost a month since I
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Anurag,
I watched NS on pirated DVD because it will never release in my small town. Let me first admit that I am an average viewer. I feel that the movie started brilliantly. I was able to understand everything till last 20-25 minutes. After that I lost it. I was confused and thinking for atleast for next 3 days. My wife asked me about the story. I started narrating her the the story. After five minutes of narration she was really interested. But after that I was just not able to put the point.
Then I realized that NS is an experience. You can never judge NS by reading reviews or WOM. No one except you can narrate or explain NS verbally.
In spite of all the confusion it stayed with me.. and is still with me. Waiting for the DVD with Dir’s Commentary. Overall a great film.
I hope that next time you will keep it little simple.
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Had sent you an email on the 27th of Oct. Wanted to know whether you have received it.
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hi sir,
Had mailed you…a major production house frm Hyderabad wants to make their company profile presentation for you..they r getting into live action feature films and desire to meet you for the same..kindly mail me hw we can take this forward..
thnx…
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Success sells but quality isnt always. One thing I learnt from NS is that if u quit “smoking” ur like will become a hellish experience. Please dont quit “smoking”. We all love it. I know its hard. Govind Nilhani once said in an interview “I have accepted the fact that star sell movie”. An honest confession by a honest person. Something that we cannot change at this moment. But still make the movie u want irrespective of what audience think about it. We are all here to love it.
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@ Anurag
Hi. Introspection is evolution in disguise.
The apology to your audiences doesnt apply simply because of the mental stimulation that you offered through NS. Dont worry, the OSO brigade didnt bother to purchase tickets to your film anyway !
What makes me really happy is the evolution part. Though there remains a lot of work to do, it warms my heart to see that you will be among the front-liners of a new breed in India which will speak to the world through cinema.
PS : Keeping PFC as a broader base, I believe, creating a more focussed core club which meets up weekly / bi-monthly might be a good idea.
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Anurag,
I have seen your your movies.I feel that you are a very normal person with some creativity.If you work hard you can make some interesting movies.Its sad to see you crying all over to create new wave,self proclaiming genius through your posts.Stop talking nonsense please.And wake up from these pages of PFC.World is different.
Foe me NS is nothing but stupid.No justification can help it or any movie for that matter.My little advise to you is to try and shed this thought that you are above the rest/howard roark/ saviour of inidan cinema.Indian cinema will remain with or without you or anyone.You need cinema.You are just an ordinary talent from the movies you have made so far.Even among the contemporaries you are far below a vishal bharatwaj or raju hirani or Rakesh mehra.If you feel cinema is your medium do your talk through it than through pfc.
Good luck to you.
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Anurag,
It seems that since you are accessible through this website, people are venting out their years of frustration of watching senseless movies. Atleast, this is true for me. And it was very kind of you to apoligise – that is the least a film maker can do, if he/she gives us a product like NS in lieu of our hard earned money. And I didn’t go to watch your movie because of Bipasha’s gyration but because you have proved yourself time and again as a director as well as a writer. See, either you can go on a egoistic trip and make movies like NS and build a genre of yourself (in that case, there will be a certain intellect of people only, watching your movies and thats perfectly fine) or make movies where people do not feel cheated after leaving the theatre. You cannot mix the two – because what has happened is that you have pulled the crowd for NS, on the backing of a super movie BF. As you tell me now, NS was all about freedom but what about the responsibilty that comes with that freedom? what about the responsibilty towards the viewers? I am sounding a bit harsh but I really felt let down by you. I know you will bounce back, eagerly waiting for that.
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kashyap….tht was really nice of u to reply…
articulating my views isn’t the problem…i have been expressin through my blog,though not really expressing it candidly…it’s somethin more than tht n i dn’t know wat…i havn’t been able to figure it out…just clueless!
anyhow,there’s also a slight misunderstanding,which actually made me laugh…i’m not a guy….
thnk u again!
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Looking forward to your next movie. In fact the only Animation that I have loved till date is Grave of the fireflies, and to some extent the animated portions of KILL BILL. rest all are cartoons for me. Hope your animated movie, Hanuman Returns falls into the animation category
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666 sorry for being so presumptious..
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Azad checkout persepolis, princess, my neighbour totoros, tokyo godfathers, and manymore from europe and japan..
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@novadj…
i felt really dorry after readin ur opinion which opposed to mine…yes,i agree,to an extent,tht money is essential….but i didn’t mean it in tht fashion tht money isn’t everythin…
it’s just loneliness….i’m not sayin tht i’m some rich girl havin a great time…my dad really worked hard for it…n i’m just secured bcos of it…i thank god for tht….but what do i do with it….
it’s just BLANK…like fill in the blanks…i dn’t know what to fill in those…with moeny,relationship or whatever….my life is just like tht…too many options, a lot left out….and those big blanks….i’m not regrettin or feeling sorry for myself…but i only wish i could feel somethin…n tht’s exactly what is absent now….
i wish u good luck with ur profession n life…take care
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Hi Anurag,
I liked the ending. I got it the first time I watched the movie. Because before I watched the movie , I read articles on pfc that the movie is not really about smoking :-) that helped me look beyond….
I can think of a few comments. Ignore it as trash if u find it invalid :-)
smoking is so common that it is easy for people to star thinking that the movie is about quitting smoking. And when the viewer gets blocked in that mind set, there was always the risk that people might just consider it as a thriller.And then the end comes as a complete surprise and the user would feel disconnected to the story. Maybe you could have given clues in the first half (go back and forth in the story like eternal sunshine of spotless mind) to let the user know that this is not really about smoking. You had that initial scene set in siberia. But I dont think it conveyed what it still gave a feel that the movie is like a thriller
The whole baba bangali setting had been more surreal like that in devils advocate.
Instead of setting it in dharavi it could have been more fantastic setting. Baba bangali is evil and is well aware of his power. But he could also have been shown as very charismatic. why are the people around baba sad and grumpy? They have given in to baba and they should be indulged in what baba throws at them. They should be sedated with the indulgence. Not feeling sad or happy…
Abbas can do anything to get his fingers back. Almost anything. He sends his friend to baba to get the fingers back. But you have to show that even after getting his finger back, abbas does not get back his freedom of expression. He just cant do it anymore because there is no longer any soul/true self that would express anything.What comes out of his pen is trash. Eventually he goes back to baba bangali…
I think the last 20 minutes were brilliant. awesome work….
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ok,kashyap..tht was quick,n i know u r online…lol…
plez dn’t apologise,i literally felt embarassed…lol
i really look up to u…to me u r inspiring….n i wish to respect u in tht manner…
i wish i could get a chance to work with u…but tht’s a long mile to walk on…take care
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KJ you are spot on..
and yes i do tend to live in extremes..
Amit i overestimated my audience, or may be you can say i was blinded by my own vanity..
The father in Tibet fulfills his responsibility towards his son by making him selfdependent..i expected the audience to be that.. i was wrong..
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666 what do you do.. or where do you work, what you aspire to be
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Hey Anurag!
Contrary to your own belief, some of us did get much of what you were trying to say in the movie. But I was really disappointed that instead of sharing our interpretations of no smoking everyone who did not understand it labeled it abstract. For my part, i would rather break my balls deciphering an interesting puzzle and not getting it in the end than live in ignorance bcoz of the thought process that goes with it, once u’ve gained that, it permanently adds dimensions to ur to thought.
I want every cinematic experience of mine to be unique, no matter how experimental. NS provided me that. You don’t realize that for ppl like me who have been breaking their heads over seeing the same movies rehashed, recut, remixed every friday losing interest in cinema, films like NS rekindle the faith that not every piece of work is done keeping the market in mind but remains what it needs to remain, pure art, pure cinema.
Sure you lost money, but you gave ppl an experience to remember forever.
You do live in extremes. First you tried to pass off NS as commercial cinema hoping ppl would get it(Entirely your fault), now you say nobody got it.
Give your viewers a chance.
I did post a very hard worked interpretation but it got lost among the myriad of opinions of others on your last post.
American comic book artist once said in relation to his passion for collecting obscure jazz records that everyone listens to the usual herbie hancock stuff you’ll get in every nook and corner of the city, but u look in places where others have shunned, you find real gems that others see as stone and it really whets your appetite because finally you possess that only u understand, something which makes you feel like yourself, you want to say ‘I am’.
so many great artists were eluded by fame, they never gave up. joseph conrad, f. scott fitzgerald, velvet underground. your work will speak for urself somewhere down the timeline.
The way you have taken to the failure of your movie makes me wish you watch NS again and see the last 20 min. of it again. See how K gives up. Then look in the mirror. See how K’s story has become your story, even more so now…..
Meanwhile here’s what i got from the movie, please correct me if i interpreted it the wrong way.
On second thoughts, maybe don’t. maybe i got more out of it than you intended to. for me, you’ve already reached your creative peak. so thanks for giving me NS before selling out to save ur marriage to the film industry……
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sorry for posting again i lost electricity in b/w i thought i did not get posted….
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This is how i interpreted it…….
The opening scene sets the tone of the movie by quoting an existential quote of Sinatra, thereby making us aware that much of what happens might be happening in K
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anurag, with all due respect, any comment on comment no. 68 and 69.
i think they have few valid points. infact they are some points which i feel too. give it a thought.
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it hurts to be loved and not respected.
but what u said was a sordid fact.
I am trying
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Hi Anurag… I am a engineer, MBA and a businessman and left the comforts of my job 14 years back and started business in Jaipur with my friends. We have made some money since then. The interest in making films was there always but for last one year, I have started pursuing it seriously. Once I started doing it, I now feel this is something I can do 24×7. I learn by making films and PFCone has given me a great opportunity to show case myself. I have already submitted 6 films and would submit more if time extends because nothing now excites me more than making films.
Coming to the POV of a film maker, I see your view but cannot agree with it in whole. I strongly believe that every person on this earth knows his weeknesses or inner devil. But if he chooses to ignore it or doesn’t want to see it, then some one else trying to strip him would not make much difference. So why not show the hope that one could change. Why try to put some one’s kachra in his drawing room instead of believing that one day he would dispose it properly. At least that would encourage few ot hers to follow the suit. My POV is that cinema must be realistic but to the extent of bringing about some positive change. Not emphasizing the negativity.
I was a fervent tobacco chewer for 14 years, seven years back. Rajnigandha double zero you know. Even today, when I sometimes visit a panwala, the smell of the tobacco pan just blows my mind. But I have learnt to supress my urge now. Its difficult but not impossible.
And finally just out of curiosity; Whether you still smoke?
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KJ i don’t know what to say.. but my respects and regards and thanks..:)
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Hey Anurag, have you seen the new David Lynch movie Inland Empire… what do you think about it?
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yo! metropolis has some of the most awesome animation I’ve ever seen. although i think akira still remains the most spectacular one even after 20 yrs!
anurag, do let us know the film making process that went into making hanuman returns in one of ur future posts. what softwares u used, and the whole creative aspect of it in one of ur future posts. it will also help in taking further the quality of the next pfc one film festival by enabling ppl to break free of money, equipment and dimensional constraints……
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Gajendra i do smoke..
sumit u r doing your bit in the theatre..
a little more will go a lot more
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Anurag,
Is there a Miyazaki homage somewhere! I’m all eager..
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Travis just got the film and haven’t seen it yet
KJ will do so soon..
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Please bear me with this small comment
in a philosophy class I saw a masterpiece that was just a bucketful of color splashed on a canvas, i asked my prof “sir even i can do it, so y is this a masterpice” the reply was “the artist has already proved to the world that he can paint as aesthetically beautiful painting as any one else has but now he has painted this”: so now the aam junta asks “what the heck he could have painted most beautiful paintings (hardcore masala) but chooses to paint this , what does he want to say ???
So repected kashyap sir we (PFC ki aam junta)see your film and ask y has he painted this when he could have painted XYZ but to others outside, you have to prove that u can paint the most beautiful bullshit we can think of (sorry for fundeybaazi…but loved ur blog and was compelled to comment)
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Anurag..man..we live and die by our creations. Creators have egos. Egos are good. Egos spell that he is capable. “I” is important to all human beings. A collection of “I” is “we”. The society..samaj..world. If the “I” does not do enough, his place in the world is lost. Forever. Also, the “I” has to have his roti, kapda and makaan..so, he does a few things that are necessary..not good or bad…but necessary.
We all do it..you do it too..But you create too. Your creations have beholders. They wonder, reflect and then get angry (in NS case)..cool, that is what you wanted them to do, serving up their curiousity for your future offerings..very Michelangelo..
I do that all day..my directors are unhappy with me..my colleagues too..but my customers find the solutions for me..then all realise..and its cool!!
So, “K” then has not lost his soul..has he??!!
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what i loved most about the movie is that the form follows the function. K is a man not easily understood by anyone around him. so it makes sense to make a movie like this. i guess anurag is right in saying it would not have compelled us to think and discuss so much had the movie been easily accessible. this was one of the biggest grouses i had against the fountainhead. the book’s construction does not follow the function(the idea) it set out to convey. i felt cheated. this is the major reason why i loved this movie…
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thanks anurag for resurfacing ….
all the best ….
Waiting for Hanuman and DevD
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TO DO IS TO BE
TO BE IS TO DO
DO BE DO BE DO
Wow!! I can’t sleep now….no more dreams..only
DO BE DO BE DO
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@Anurag Kashyap
I am a normal audience and watch movies every Friday. I was dying to see No Smoking
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Anurag a friend of mine has read quitter inc and she says that it is the same story.is there any credit to quitters inc in the film?. i dont remember seeing it.for me no smoking as different a film to quitter’s inc as some poeple compare ikiru to anand.
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You’re right Kashyap,
we do not listen.
there is too much of noise
screaming at us
I escape this and have
started escaping even the meaning that comes with it
you confront
and you are too honest
your honesty troubles
NS lingers and worries at my understanding of it
on the fifth day after seeing it two scenes fell in place all of a sudden. The rest still eluded. Now that you mention here on this blog few things make further sense and many things still elude. NS is not over. It might never be…
2. the soul loosing its body.. is a mind- blowing concept.
3. lastly, because of you and your brutal honesty many are learning not to stop. i, for one. you have awakened something. the only detriment is to be free from you (as a role model)
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And I wonder if this is how legends are made… don’t know have to wait and watch.
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Dear Anurag,
I was quite angry when i saw NS, i believed it was as self indulgent as it could get. However, i believe that every film should be a story told by the maker with total conviction in himself and his script by staying true to himself, i hence commend you on having the ‘testicles’ to do so.
Being an avid Marketer i cannot help wondering, what if you had not taken commercial stars in NS and what if you had a limited release like a late night show only at the multiplexes; maybe you would have had a chance to hit the niche audiences better and probably generate better WOM thus leading to the movie actually being appreciated by a larger crowd.
Do comment on this.
S
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I enjoy watching “No Smoking”,
aisa Type ka aur film hona mangata,.
(3 baar dekha allready):)
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was wondering if its no blogging after no smoking. thank god its not. gt my blood check up done recnly,report said red blood cells,white blodd cells n pfc cells. yes now its impossible.
so,k has lost if finally ? then what was the point ? so dummies guide to no smoking is still rolling ? so if the intention was to discuss n dissect, why simplify it now ? so if bipasha number was con, the bigger con job was in having john abraham(the actor with only 2 expressions on his face..smile with dimples, frown with six lines on his forehead)to make it more commercial or maybe to con the producer or may be filmmaking is con job?
yes,those rebel friends (read rock music,long hairs,charas..all togther or one of it)who hate bollywood loved it n think cz of pfc m somehow part of ns. they come n tell me wow, i love that dude,man. i say ya.
but i hate “i” when it comes to film n cinema. i is just in bewteen c and n or between f and l. why should it become bigger? why should it stand out in cInema or fIlm ? it looks odd, bizarre. i love “i” otherwise. in shool when virendra saxena tells manoj bajapyee…duniya tumhare tarike se nahi chaltiiiiiii. everytime i c it, i feel like turning around n slap that guy n tell him…duniya mere tarike se hi chalegi ya nahi chalegi. personaly hav alwys lived like that so far. dad said its ur life. do what u want. u enjoy it,u regret it…u gt nobdy to blame except u. i told them dont come for any parents teachers meetings. i will handle everything. n hav been doing so since i remember. but hav also learnt that when it involves u,we n all,then there is no “i”. And film is all about “i” but for “u”. otherwise like om prakash makhija pray that in next birth u r born with ambani, roshan or johar surname.
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hey anurag, i had left a post abt how much i luvd watching NS in ur earlier blog entry
i too aspire to b a filmmaker, m 18 nd doin BMM(bachelor if mass media)…but i don kno where to start frm
i kno i hav 1 story in me(m dyin to tell it!)…which is as close to me as NS is to u
i desperately want to tell tht story for self-indulgent purposes and i don’t mind doin any amount of commercial bullshit(i secretly enjoy conceptualising commercially viable stuff too)
a word of advice wud do me a world of good…i’m currently directionless
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phoenixnu uncle Raakh hone ke baad bhi baar baar uth khade hote ho ya yunhi phoenix ho.. bhaiya i se hi to sab shuru hota hai.. i nahi hoga to we kaise hoga.. NS se mujhe zyaada mere type log mile hain.. thoda intezaar karo duniya bhi badlenge..
NS itni bhi simplify nahi kee hai.. bahas to chalti rahegi, uska kaam hai chalna.. ek wahi to cheez hai jo chal rahi hai apni speed se.. baaki to sab bhaag rahe hain ya thame huey hain..
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S without the commercial stars it wouldn’t have been made..
and to release like that you need a super strong distributor.
in this country the whole thing has sadly become about the first three days
ronny quitter’s inc was just a departure point and it has no credit in the film..
Dileep your questions are too many and the answer to them is probably baba bengali had supernatural powers, he was omnipresent.. all those things were used to symbolise the constant surveillance that we live under..or you can simply call it paranoia.. you see most what you fear most..
as to why k signs after put in that magic box, i don’t know..maybe something so terrible happens down there that he is scared.. may be the first time he goes down , he goes into a dream and the second time he wakes up is actuall when he wakes up.. maybe when he goes down he sees a crystal ball in which he seees his future mauled by baba bengali or he sees his wife is actually abbas’s wife and he himself doesn’t exist..i don’t know
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shreyas kurukshetra mein kood jaao.. chakravyooh mein khudbakhud phans jaaoge
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poetess do not admire someone so much that you won’t be able to take it when they make their human mistake.. you have to be accomodating enough to allow your rolemodel his fall from grace.. trust me the one rolemodel that definitely works is the vision of “the future you”.. let that future you define your journey.. and when you become that..try to jump off it..
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Anurag, why explain? Why not allow your inferences, your private anger, your personal angst that was poured into the script and the writing remain cloaked in the film.Those that get it, understand it can feel a sense of unmitigated gle at having got the joke, maybe different ones in each instance, understood the idioms. But this explanation makes it all so redundant. Like Beckett stepping on stage to explain the real meaning of ‘Waiting for Godot’. What works there is the same thing… Everyone takes something very personal and individual away… I wish you hadn’t launched into ‘look, did you get how deep I was being?’. Defeats the purpose of depth. And I’m one of those guys who really loved NS, warts and all.
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gatsby you have a valid argument here.. but for me NS is gone and i need to make more films and in this country after being jinxed for eight years i don’t want to lose myself to obscurity caused by incomprehensibility..
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hum to philhaal bus wannabe phoenix hain, shayad raakh me mitne ke baad pata chalega. umid,hope aur pray karta hoon ki aap zarur is raakh se phir se uthein. bina zyada cheezon ko analyse kar,bina zyada sochein,bina khalid aur taran ko seriously liye. besabri se intezaar rahega. pehle bhi kaha tha,abhi bhi kah raha hoon,ns ke liye apni dictionary me se ek shabd zaroor chun ka rakha hoon..cult. bus dar hai ki ye “i” ko aur ego massage na de. behad kahatrnak sabit ho sakta hai. aur kuch bhi ho bus woh nahi chahunga. waise bhi gine chune hi hain jinse umeed liye bhaithe hain.
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Hey Anurag,
Tell me for my peace of mind and people like me…
How do you lose freedom by losing two fingers… If that’s just what it takes to lose freedom , I’ve lost mine by being born …. I want to get it..tell us..
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travis losing fingers was just a metaphor.. if you take everything literally then nothing has meaning.. it’s all meaningless.. even you asking, me answering and all that surrounds the angst of our existence..
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But isn’t freedom a state of mind… The rest that happens around me the absurdity of existence..
Meaning is truth … and I want to know your truth..as an artist
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Everything is meaningless by itself unless we give it meaning … Anyway i think you should make a movie around a single meaning .. like the meaning of the life of Travis Bickel…
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Anurag sir …. i can see that you have truly moved past No Smokingg… no comments on ur Classic M blog after a while… Well not sure if u might have read this…. but this is wht i wrote abt No Smoking… No point in going and talking abt tht issue again and again… but if possible …have a read.. !
Picture this – for eg : David Lynch
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I wanted to be a part of Dev D..thru PFC 1 min movie… too bad…for me..as my film…got stuck due to bad internet connnections !! but these things happen i guess… !! Soo hope to meet you sometime in the future..!!!
All the best sir…. for ur DEV D…!
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The fact tht we derived our own interpretation from No Smoking…was a great thing !!…. after a point ..we do tend to realise…tht its metaphor for many thing… !! Soul for our identity in this world , Fingers for the things ur feel , Ears for the arrogance we have and which makes us deaf….and well….the pain of our loved ones,…wen we go on a dark path !!….
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travis i lose my freedom if i am not allowed to express.. my mind is free.. but to translat that i need a medium.. to a writer it is writing, which is why abbas tyrewala loses his fingers and then K
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neeraj the deadline to PFCone has extended..have you tried sending it again
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Anurag bhai,
you are the man we all aspiring film makers look upto… your apologies were for the people who you think you fooled to watch the movie by the bips song. such people must have nothing to do with what you write. but people like me are affected by what u write. we dont need ur apologies. though my friends slept through NS, i loved it. i was convinced them to watch it again and then they loved it. i know thats how its going to be for you. you wont be just a survivor for the sake of it, u will have a mark of ur own. every hanuman return will have a NS.
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So Anurag, you want the freedom to express your freedomlessness to express your freedom … am i right :-?
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Glad to hear that post NS u still have ur fingers un-chopped (though u can bargain on hearing device).
Many of my frnds didn’t even notice those smoky (or blurry) screen when u tried to show the world visualized by ‘atma’ .. e.g the very first scene when K went to that “kolkata carpet centre” or whatever it was .. there screen get smoky for few seconds. Little more effects cud have done for many guys.
I have seen few movies of Lynch, Arnofosky (not Kaufman though) .. and as people pointing these guys as the reference for NS .. i was bit afraid initially for getting alienated .. but unlikely i found NS very “Indian” … though i may not get every references u have put there in ur movie.
But to the core NS is very Indian .. and for that i take bit of pride.
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Anurag,… Its sad but I suspect u are evolving into a self centered spoilt brat resting on the spoils of fragile foundations !
Pls dont do this if u can ! IF u cant ,….just go ahead and lose ur fingers ! We will forget u !
Amen
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Anurag,
We saw we heard but we were unmoved . We understood what you were trying to convey , we really did . Gulzar saab’s lyrics had a quality which your film lacked . they were more sucessful in conveying the gist and sprit of your film than your film itself .
Iam glad that you have decided to look beyond ‘No smoking’. Looking forward to your next movie . All the best for the future.
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Glad to hear that next time you’ll keep audience in mind. I don’t mind seeing a mirror, but the image should not be frosty, blurred and shapeless. Eagerly awaiting your next…..All the Bestest
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“A big drop of sperm was falling from the sky
Mother (earth ) quaked for it and conceived it
and I bloomed out
That is how the idea was born..”
idhu allava kavidhay… pramadham pramadham!!!
tanglish (this is know poem… wonderful wonderful)
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Anurag,
Having seen the same industry you’re now an inadvertent part of, from close quarters, all I’d say is, just do what you have to and voice your opinions if you have to. But I can promise you that no one here is going to take a non-conformist seriously, because it’s too scary for them to acknowledge a different point-of-view. You need a remarkable sense of security to deal with different perspectives, and not many in Bollywood have it.
I haven’t watched No Smoking yet, purely because of work pressure. But have been reading the posts on this site, and all the flak that’s been flying around in the media.
My question to you is not about No Smoking, but about Guru. Why did you write that film at all?
Regards,
Deepa
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deepa i wrote the first two drafts,, final version was not mine..
i wrote it because i loved the story of that man’s journey.. alas my version was not agreed upon..
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Alright…
this may be a spoiler..like i said may be
Anurag,
I wanted to duscuss this with you but no other medium than this open web platform so here it is
my interpretation – K gets cured as his stubborn, egoist subconscious is captured by baba…
From the point K is thrown inside a hole for refusing to accept treatment(before he signs the contract) is his subconcious that we see on the screen until the end when he talks to himself…
Confusion?
2 fingers getting chopped off – was that the real punishment?
why was there a mat on the top of his car??
Your movie was like The shining, I could get some but not others. Fortunately I can discuss it with you whereas stanley kubrick was long gone before I watched his movie..
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anurag
welcome back. uve made a movie and the ppl who have not liked it (including me) can go fuck themselves. Did u put a gun on my head or kidnap my wife and demanded an audience as ransom? dude dont worry abt it. uve writen and directed stuff that is recorded in golden words of indian film history. u can make a dozen NS but no one can take away ur satya, ur BF. so come back and hit it hard and u know how ….
Abhra
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Anurag, Ketan Mehta made a Fellini-esque romp through the underbelly of Bombay…’Oh Darling Yeh Hai India’…also was deemed incomprehensible by people. That film was probably way ahead of it’s time.
In any case, referring to the ‘Fountainhead’ comparison, this blog has given you what Roark could never have…. hundreds of supporters…!
8 years of ‘jinxes’ maybe, but hey, everybody loves a martyr eh?
May the force be with you.
Bom Bom !
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Dhirendra..the carpet is what he gets billed for each time he issues a cheque..Kalkatta karpets is the front of what baba does underneath in his labyrinth.. ‘things we don’t want to deal with we sweep them under the carpet”,,as for rest of your interpretation that’s your own and i am not going to argue with that.. am glad atleast you took something
Abhra thanks
qwerty with 300 someone won a war and they made a film on it.. well i love PFC
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Anurag,
Next time give us a flick,where we don’t have to disscuss it, in order to understand it. Film is an audio visual medium with so many characters,music and many more things in It so it should speak by itself.
Regards!
Sanjay
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Anuraag Bhai –
very well, now that you’ve completed the cycle for NS by providing an explanation,or shd I say, a justification. Ab ek baat pate ki – genius to aap ho hi is mein kisi ko koi doubt nahi hai, and at least cos of NS you’ve decided to make your ingenuity more accessible; but why do you have this attempt to always prove that you are ‘different’ ? Yes you are, and so is your cinema, your writing, your thoughts and opinions, but sir, different hone ke chakkar mein indifferent mat ho jaana. Turn the commercial format on its head, change the way our stories are told,plot the points as u want, do something entirely novel, but please – remain deferent even when you are trying to be different. Not just for your producers and the audience at large, but for our cinema in particular and those of us who have extreme faith on your abilities. A lot of us here will like to be into filmmaking, but can’t due to ghar and family chalana hai.. don’t have the guts to leave the security or in my case love my wife too much to make her insecure by insane decisions.. and for a small lot out of this group, we depend on you and your kind of cinema. Make us proud man. Make it different if you want, but make it work. You know how. You’ve showed us your signature, now fill the page with your name. All the best !
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btw, I loved the ripple effect(like, throwing a stone in the pond effect) you had in some of the scenes. Very original technical act. that kind of gave a feeling that these scenes are different from rest…
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I have this fantastic script about overlapping realities induced by an experimental test drug, on a group of unconnected people in their twentiesmost of it takes place in an enclosed area, a totally mind altering experience. It’s set in France, for a French network…..at the end of it, you dont know which is which…quite intriguing, and a page turner….wonder if that would work in a Bombay milieu, sort of like ‘12 Monkeys’ meets ‘Jacob’s Ladder’ – ( u must see those if you havent already)
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Anurag can you share the script of NS on PFC?
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:d/ I loved Jacobs ladder and 12 monkeys.. precisely because I was left scratching my head for a day or so.. It made me think and rethink untill I got it. But I ultimately question the point of “getting it” or is it the act of participating intellectually and making your own accesments that is more important and rewarding. But then again, one shouldn’t be pondering major plot lapses, but rather be undercovering the hermeneutics behind the underlining meaning.
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i love them too..
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Hey Anurag, when you setting forth with Dev D? and whats the premise for it? I have a question regarding screenwriting in India? do you guys start with English and then get dialouges written in hindi or does the standard format consist of purely hindi. I really think if you make a partial script available from any of your past movies, It would be a great learning curve. Btw have you seen no country for old men yet?
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never mind i just started reading your ” trying to make my film in the big bad bollywood” post.. I will save you the time. Please thank Vishal Bharadwaj and Gulzhar sahbib from my side for that great soundtrack… i have been listening to it non stop ever since I first heard it. Phoonk de is my favourite track along with ash tray.
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my script should be up soon..
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@qwerty
and a lil bit of “A Clockwork Orange”
@ AK
Don’t you think with a film like “Hanuman Returns”,
you might just target the wrong audience for your next baby, another backlash.
instead I’d like to see your next baby proclaim ‘from the makers of No Smoking..’
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anurag,
aap inhe padhen…kuchh log samajh rahe hain aap ko…maloom nahi aap unhe samajh rahe hain ya nahi?
http://chavannichap.blogspot.com/2007/10/blog-post_30.html
http://chavannichap.blogspot.com/2007/10/blog-post_6921.html
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Anurag,
Like many others I have been following all the posts written for NS. Thought I will drop a line too but then thought what the hell, I enjoyed it why do I need security in numbers. I saw a pirated print of NS as that is the only way I can see in Connecticut. Even on such a bad print I could understand it was full of style and lots of gripping moments. First reaction I had was it is like the movie Big Fish then I thought may be not it was more like Eternal Sunshine of spotless mind, but I think it was better than any of them. Anurag I did see the point of Baba enjoying his power over underprivileged. I could not hear the lyrics from the song very clearly, but loved the music. I thought it was more of an experience rather than a movie. I loved lots of moments especially when K forces Abbas to smoke a cigg just to prove that whatever he does is right. And then there was this other ass licking guy next to him who would have licked Abbas ass if K was the one who would have walked out first
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@Kamlesh
A Clockwork Orange ?? nothing similar with that. It’s a movie that becomes boring after 30 mins.
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One more thing on your poem you wrote when you were doped…. next time put it in some movie with in jim morrison’s stype and the doors music in background….. it would be fun
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Shit man!
You are apologising for ‘Phoonk De’ here and there I was planning to take pictures from the net and spread xeroxed B/W A4 posters with John & Bips splashed on them before the release.
Kya karte ho boss… marwaoge kya?
But really, why this post… the explanation… Agreed, it’s a bit easier to comprehend but we need to do that ourselves to grow up, don’t we?
Another point… people (the handful there were) mocked you while watching NS, but noo one walked out.
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Anurag,
This is my first post here. I saw Black Friday only recently, felt it was outstanding and honest film. I am also seeing the kind of interest your articles generate among people who are looking for good cinema.
I am not sure how many Telugu/Tamil/Malayalam films you see or have seen. I always felt an urge to tell as many people possible about some wonderful movies I have seen in these languages.
I would like to suggest one movie in Telugu and would like to get some feedback on what you and other people felt about that.
Move name: Anukokunda Oka Roju (Unexpectedly, one day)
Language: Telugu
Director: ChandraShekhar Yeleti (he is the same guy who remade his superb ‘aithe’(telugu) as 50 lakhs in Hindi)
Premise: A girl/singer who attends a party gets drugged and wakes up 3 days later. The movie travels back to figure out what she missed and why people are trying to kill her later.
This film will take you into unexpected territories and unexpected places. At the end it will also make you think that yes, there are far more and larger/dangerous addictions than just drugs.
Don’t want to give away more.
Will wait to hear people’s comments once they see the film.
Kesavan
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@ Holden great comments, where is this poem you refer to? and riders on the storm is the best background score for any poem!!!
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@Devils Advocate
A big drop of sperm was falling from the sky
Mother (earth ) quaked for it and conceived it
and I bloomed out
That is how the idea was born..
by AK
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kesavan they are making that film in hindi as sunday, by my producers of NS
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@ Dhirendra
“It
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oh that… i didn’t know it was AK’s. It alluded to the greek myth of aphrodite and how the world was created: For those who haven’t heard about it goes something like this~ Gaia(mother earth) is fed up that Uranus comes and screws her whenever he pleases. Not being able to bear the pain she asks CHRONOS her youngest song to casterate URANUS!!! and from the bleeding gue of sperm that falls into the ocean arises APHRODITE, the) most beautiful creature alive(methaphor for creation). Thats why you see the frothy nature when the ocean touches the beach lol..
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Watching Paanch..And the Last antara of “main khuda” explains why i made no smoking..
Fuck that’s a discovery for me too.. didn’t know i haven’t evolved
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Wow, thats quick. I am exicted that my views are reaching someone. There are many more in my list, let me suggest 3 more.
My all time fav. film by K. Vishwanath, whose movies I appreciate the most.
Swathikiranam in Telugu. Explores the emotion of – Jealousy superbly. The director also had the conviction to have a very unpopular climax. Mamooty and Radhika are outstanding in this film.
2. Iruvar in Tamil – (Directed by Maniratnam) Saw this film last week. Loved it.
3. Virumandi in Tamil. Same story told from two people’s views. Kamalhassan is just superb. I think he also directed the film.
Thanks for reading.
Kesavan
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Chavanni sir.. i appreciate it.. read them.. this post is actually not for ones who see through it..
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Kesavan-have seen iruvar and virumandi.. the first one how can i source it.. why don’t you write a post on the films you like..send it for iview
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Here is the lyrics of the song I
I am anger
Under pressure
Lost it cages
A prisoner
The first to escape
I am wicked
I am legion
Strength in numbers
A lie
The number is one
[Chorus:]
I – I – I
Everything that I see is for me
Yes, I am giant
I’m a monster
Breaking windows
In houses
Buildings of glass
Rebel rebel
Holy outlaw
Ride together
Don’t try it
The power’s in one
[Chorus:]
I – I – I
I am standing alone
But I can rock you
I – I – I
On the edge of the blade
But the knife can’t cut the hero down
I am virgin
I’m a whore
Giving nothing
The taker
The maker of war
I’ll smash your face in
But with a smile
All together
You’ll never
Be stronger than me
[Chorus:]
I – I – I
Right here on my own
But I still rock you
I – I – I
Don’t follow behind
Just leave me on the outside
I – I – I
I am standing alone
But I can shock you
I – I – I
On the edge of the blade
But no one makes the hero bleed
( No, no , no )
I am hunger
Feed my head
All together
You’ll never
Never make the hero bleed
( No, no, no )
———
Here is another song by Sabbath
Sins of the Father
7. Sins Of The Father
I am the crazy man
Who lives inside your head
But I think I’m breaking through the wall
You are the innocent
Convicted of the crime
No one was ever there
To catch you when you fall
I see the diamonds
But you only see the rock
I need to run
But you only crawl
It’s time to open up
All the doors that you keep locked
Nobody gives without a take
Let’s take it all
[Chorus:]
You’ve been twisted into pieces
By the hands of your emotions
How much longer are you gonna pay
For yesterday
Sins of the father
One more crucifixion
One more cross to bear
You’re a hole in a photograph
Go on – lose it in the city
The city can feel no shame
See the world with electric eye
They call it mystery
But any fool could see
You thought he walked on the water
And if the pain was gone
And you were free to run away
And get out
Would you get out of there
Or do you really care
It’s not safe or easy
And maybe when you’re gone
You just won’t belong at all
[Chorus:]
You’re the only witness
To the murder of an angel
How much longer are you gonna pay
For yesterday
Sins of the father
It’s just another crucifixion
One more cross to bear
Go on lose it in the city
Take a look at the world
You’ve got electric eyes
Any reference is purely coincidental
Blog ke baare mai baad mai likhenge
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Great, now that I have an avenue, I shall write a post during the weekend. Otherwise it is my poor wife who, I am sure got bored of hearing me raving about my fav films and also angry at the number of times I showed the movies to her by translating every word (she does not understand any south Indian languages). I am used to writing music reviews/articles for websites so that may help too.
I have Swathikiranam DVD but unfortunately no subtitles, if you understand Telugu, i can post the DVD to you. Else, I shall hunt for a DVD with subtitles when I am next in India and send it across. If you are in touch with telugu guys (like say Ramu) they may just have it.
I have some rules for myself towards online sources for movies (Piracy I mean), for good films (like say Black Friday) I will only buy original DVDs or rent it from council library. I never downloaded movies from internet yet. Hence, I may not be that helpful to provide you with online sources if you are looking for one.
Other K. Vishwanath greats In descending order of my preference are:
1. SwathiKiranam
2. SaagaraSangamam
3. SwarnaKamalam
4. ShankarAbharanam
5. Sirivennala
6. SwayamKrushi
7. SwathiMutyam
8. ShubhaSankalpam
Shall write about other fav. directors of mine later like (Bapu, Balachandar etc).
Kesavan
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yeh sahi hai
yeh galat
meri mano
socho mat
yeh na pehno
yeh na bolo
meri mano muh na kholo
yeh padho mat yeh suno mat
main chununga tum chuno mat
kat te jaoo….mit te….jaoo….
BAAS….aab aur nahi
saans lo…..dum bharo…chilla kar sabse kaho….
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I guess that was the first Bollywood metal song…
Dont knw if this fact was ever discussed before.. or is there any other song which takes that crown.
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1. SwathiKiranam
2. SaagaraSangamam
3. SwarnaKamalam
4. ShankarAbharanam
all 4 exploring the guru-shishya relationship. Loved Shankarabharanam…one of the few Telugu films I have seen….need to see the other three…..
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Vasant –
Well not exactly exploring Guru-Sishya relationship, but that is what is used as a base to communicate a different message.
1. Swathikiranam – Guru and Sishya, where Guru is jealous of Sishya’s talent. The movie explores how jealousy can bring a great man (guru) to stoop (adhogati) to very low levels. You will hate Mamooty (the character) in this film but love his acting.
2. SaagaraSangamam – Also called Selangai Oli (dubbed in Tamil). – This story is about a loser and how he finds salvation in imparting his talent to a sishya. Ilayaraja best, K Vishwanath’s best, SPB best and KamalHassan’s best movie ever.
3. SwarnaKamalam – This is about one realising ones innerself and talent. Sirivennala Seetharamasashtry (Lyricist) shines in every word written.
4. ShankaraBharanam – Guru Sishya yes. Since you have seen it, great. No need to comment
.
Kesavan
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hey have seen Selangai Oli as well…Kamal…and Jaya Prada and Sarad Babu…..wowowowo…Kamal rocks in this…..
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hey ANAURAG ,
what I use to feel before reading ur blog was that I am one of those who wasted there time and money over NOSMOKING , but after going through ur blog my soul is insisting me to go through it once again and I will.
thanxx and m waiting for getting raped by u as u said u will in ur future projects ..
wish u luck for them .
hey we guys have done our best in PFCONE comp.. now lets see..
GOD BLESS U .
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@Kamlesh
That’s just my opinion..I didn’t like it..just like I liked “no smoking” which many didn’t..
btw, I didn’t like “north by northwest” as well, which is again one of the best and highly rated movies.
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Another cliched comparison..
1408, Joun cusak enters a room and then weird events start…
No Smoking, K enters baba’s den and then weird events start…
Similarity – Quitter’s Inc and 1408 are both written by Stephen King
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Thanx a ton man… i was really tiered of fighting with all my frens to whom i had recommended NS… I have sent this article’s link to all those… n i am dead sure that after reading this they’ll once again watch the movie…. had this article come lil sooner, that might have made some difference(as even KM visits PFC ;) )
After reading this I was really happy coz I did get/notice many(and definitely not all)things which u have mentioned / clarified…
Thanx for such a good movie… after reading this I fixed my date for this evening… “Khoob jamega rang jab ,il baitenge 3 yaar.. me, mera old monk aur NS”…yes i m gonna watch it again today
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I watched NO SMOKING in the hall ALL ALONE. i was the only audience in a theatre that seats 200.I was determined from the very beginning to watch it ..much like the determination exemlified by baba bangali. I LUVD IT.
Mr.Kashyap ur film was like a breeze that we cannot touch or taste or smell but feel n derive pleasure from its abstractness but by explaining every sequence arent you turning that breeze into a puff of cigarette smoke that has a definite smell..definte colour..definte taste but is liked by none?
I request you to keep going. Tagore said that if people dont respond to your call then walk alone. We need the Howard Roarks…what did Orson Welles do after Citizen Kane?? We trulu appreciate you.
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@sircar
Someone just asked me how come the size of window didn’t change even after camera zooms in to the window in Citizen Kane when they show the guy shaving..?
Any ideas anybody?
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I liked ur poem sir..
its new..sumthing we call original..
you know things well..13 years are big.
Actually..u know what?
there shud be things here..which cud bother you..
when ppl like you come up with that..
they say..its crap..
you cud make censor ppl watch your film..and know hows it goin to do at the box office.
im a music composer..
wheneva i write a new tune..
i play it to a few close friends..
if its intellectual..something which is thought provoking..they”ll reject it..
if its a catchy thing..which will eventually fade away after 2 times..to my surprise they like it.
I adore you..
want to wrok with you..
who wud not want to do that?
i dunno how to get in touch with you..
these 7 mnths in mumbai have taught me somuch..
thers someone i know called rucha mam..she said she wud introduce me to you..utv se kuch link.
nothing like that happened..
:((
im here..writing to you..
in hope..
you”ll reply..sumday.
I love ur wurk sir..
take care.
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hey Anurag,
If u read this..can you pls elobarate the concept behind the zero min and its significance….
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Anurag,
Have u seen “No county for Old Men”, new movie from Coen brothers. All the choots that whine about your movie will similarly not get this classic. You shouldn’t bother explaining shit to ppl who watch OSO and Sawariya and then complain that your movie doesn’t make sense. I believe that in order to appreciate great cinema, one should be qualified (meaning they should have seen some classics from world cinema not just MI-1,2,3 and Jurassic park).
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Hehe.
There are so many Abhisheks who post on this website that it leaves me uncomfortable to post with the name “Abhishek” because for a neutral reader it would give the impression of a Multiple Personality Disorder.
The reason I am writing this because I read comment no. 39 posted by “Abhishek” which makes a reference to Howard Roark and then I saw Anurag reply to it.
So it amuses me that people refer to her as if she is some great scholar or an important reference point.
Here is my “Contra Rand”
Let me begin by saying that I have read 4 of Rand’s books – ‘We the Living’, ‘Fountain head’, ‘Atlas Shrugged’ and ‘For the New Intellectual’.
There was a time when I was an impressionable 15 year old and was enamored by her firebrand rhetoric and her never-say-die creative-constructive heroes.
Here’s why I think Rand is a bullshitter
Philosophy: To call Objectivism a philosophy is like shitting all over the word philosophy. It is just a strong backlash to Marxist Communism. If Marxist politics leads to lack of “individual’s right for enterprise” then pure capitalism leads to “consumer fetishism” – You have to live in US for a few years to get a feel for “consumer fetishism”. Sure, any modern student of philosophy can find problems with Kant or Hegel. But, to criticize David Hume, Karl Marx and Friedrich Nietzsche – even the most post-modern student of philosophy must have some depth. And Rand is as shallow as her Hollywood engagements.
Literature: Oh my god. What can be a good cure for bad taste? To call her novels a “drag” would be to calling Manjrekar’s batting at its slowest as “slow”. Although she criticizes Romanticism, she is herself a Romantic. No wait a second. Not just a Romantic – she is a hero worshipper. She worships her idols – Roark and Galt – and wants her reader to do the same. All her characters are 1-dimensional and don’t change with time. Toohey born a bad guy remains that way all his life. Roark born an orphan – always aloof and intellectual – remains that way. According to her, you are a born Howard Roark or a born Toohey. Wow! Gail Wynand changes – and she makes him fall from grace – why – because she believes that people who assume power through wrong means MUST fall – Contrived? Wishful thinking? Madam – Have you ever witnessed the life of Stalin – So, did you ever see him fall? And both her “good guys” and “bad guys” are as unrealistic, unattainable and unachievable as “Fountain of Youth” and “Holy Grail” – the Judeo-Christian references she keeps making all the way. Dominique Francon breaks a statue because she thinks it is too good for human beings to enjoy it. Writes unjust bad reviews for Howard Roark? Howard Roark rapes Dominique Francon in kinky BDSM style – she enjoys it without knowing his identity! The whole world misses their “John Galt”. Who is John Galt? Where is he? Well people missed Evariste Galois, Alexandre Grothendieck and Guru Dutt. But, they move on. The world is not carried on the shoulders of one man called Atlas – which BTW is a wrong version of the Greek myth. Here use of language is banal. Her command over English language is as much as most of my friends had by the time they were out of high school. And worst of all, her writing is despicably misanthropic – but she wants her “heroes” to construct a “temple to worship human spirit”.
Now I have wondered why is such bad philosophy and bad literature so popular? I think a lot of Ayn Rand books are sold in pirated version on roadside for 50 bucks – just like the Chicken soup books, ‘You can win’ books and “7 1/2 habits that will make you great.” Popularity breeds popularity. Bad taste breeds bad taste. People watch ‘Heyy Baby’ and ‘Main Hoon Na’. People read ‘You can win’ and Ayn Rand. And then we complain about decadence of culture. Why not?
BTW, I really liked ‘No smoking’! Someday I will write a good review!
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Errr…Some typos. Sorry about that.
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@The Real Abhishek… ahem!
Dude, if that’s what u derived from Rand, then God help ur shallowness. Its much more than that… a lot more.
Rand is an ideology, a single minded thought process… a philosophy, and like all, works for some and does not for some. BTW, its like all philosophy. So if you are out to prove that one particular phil is wrong, then your basic understanding of philosophy is at fault.
Dude, plzz… let Rand be Rand, if you don’t like her, move on… but don’t malign her man.
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Dude ravptor – I have studied philosophy and studied it at Stanford University – A mecca for philosophy students- if we ever have a face to face debate, I will rip you apart – with words only. If you have a counter-criticism – make it – don’t pass a shallow judgment on my understanding or interpretation.
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@ravptor
Every philosophy has some problems – true. That is called the post-modern style of doing philosophy – read Lyotard, Delueze, Foucoult and Derrida – particlarly Lyotard for his clarity.
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Rand is not a coherent ideology – it is bombastic rhetoric
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hey anurag
Can you suggest me five great movies of alltime (according to u)which i can see?
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@Real Abhishek
Dude, I did not study philosophy nor do I know any of the names that you mouthed off and if stanford is at the top of the list of grad schools, then I am in one of the lowest ranked grad schools in the US so I don’t question ur pedigree.
All i know is as the same impressionable 15yr old, Rand worked for me. It worked for me then and at some level it works for me now. The only other philosophy I dabbled in is Russel and I still have two thoughts about it.
Coming back to the point, what has Stanford taught you? To name ur self “the real” one? Pointing to someone and say “I will rip you off?”. Sorry dude, I won’t come in ur way. Rip them all off but keep coming back to PFC as often as you can. You never know, someday our paths may cross…
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BTW, hope to read ur own philosophy someday and hopefully I will make my movie by then. Am sure my philosophy will spill into my work… then you can rip all that you want of me… BTW, looking foward to ur understanding of NS. I you can, pass it on to Iview @ PFC…
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First time poster here.
Anurag,
Excited about you directing Hanuman Returns.
I was thrilled that the first Hanuman was a wide release and was viewed by a lot of people. I am not very thrilled about the quality of animation. It was so simple and basic, that I was just not going to show it to anyone as the “latest” animated Indian movie.
Please do insist on raising the currently very low bar. Don’t take a no for an answer.
I am working on Spielberg’s current film and have been doing visual fx in Hollywood for a while.
Feel free to email me, if you want to chat further.
thanks !
Dev
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@ravptor
Sorry for the “will rip you apart” phrase!
I didn’t mean it. I take it back.
I got personal because you got personal by calling my understanding “shallow” when actually I am pretty much aware that it is not. I guess we should all be more careful when writing posts to not get personal.
I am studying math and philosophy and I am a cinema addict.(just like everyone here at PFC)
Russell is a very important philosopher – he influenced Wittgenstein – one of the most admired philosophers in modern times. But, Russell overestimated his importance in philosophy of mathematics – He influenced the creation of Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory and Von Neumann Set Theory. But, his Principia was almost ignored by future generations of mathematicians. Mathematicians can not work like logicians. He was also a moral relativist – always a good thing – not the first one though – Mahavira had professed Anakentavada and Syadvada much before any of the ancient or modern philosopher did that. The Greco-Buddhist era was a great time for India – the golden age of India. That is why I say that modern India is a decadent India.
Best of luck for your movie making! If I ever criticize it I will be fair towards it – not a Khalid Mohammed to it! Hehe.
Naming myself the Real Abhishek – was just a joke – I had read some guy post as “RGV impersonator”. So I guessed if RGV were to post himself he would post as “Real RGV” – Hehe. SO I posted as “Real Abhishek”
And I will write a ‘No Smoking’ review on iView – when all the heat and dust over it settles down and people who love it and hate it are less agitated.
Cheerio
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Dude, used to it esp from Stanford Grads. Have a few friends there, some i guess of ur own batch so no apologies needed…
All the best!
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My problem with Russel is his dualist approach to problems – this and that. It bothered me for a while but then i have to go back again… philosophy for me always grew with practice, something you no doubt know, hence the defense of Rand.
This is precisely the answer I have to your point of she glorifying the unchanged one and failing the one who changed. Practice of one path, without questions, as I understand is when philosophy can truly be experienced. Any other way is just a pretense. Right or Wrong is debatable but only when you understand the profoundity of the philosophy is when you can decide for yourself. Russel at that level seemed too liner for me, too… A to Z kinda thing. I will have to revisit him though.
Write the review… AK is here anyways…
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I haven’t read Russell’s book on epistemology. But, I have read articles about it. So, on the face of it, I am sympathetic to his viewpoint. To make a quick argument about it – I will like to point out the manner in which modern physicists go about doing their physics. Like for example Dirac “hypothesized” that a positron must exist because the equation say so – which is “knowledge” by description and not by acquaintance. Similarly, John Higgs proposed that a “Higgs boson” must exist. Positron has been detected since Dirac hypothesized it. But, Higgs is yet elusive. You must read the plenary paper “Hunting Higgs” by Edward Witten – Edward Witten is hailed as the Newton of our times! So read everything written by him. Hehe. Knowledge by acquaintance sounds similar to the way Newton went about doing his physics – making only “backward predictions” and no “forward predictions”. Modern physicists make both forward and backward predictions. and of course lot of physical intution that they gather is by experiencing it. Similarly you can say that Ramanujan did his math mostly by acquaintance while someone as grand as Grothendieck did it by increasingly abstract descriptions. You may want to read ‘The Road to Reality’ by Roger Penrose – the first chapter will perhaps make you feel sympathetic to Russell’s views. ‘The Particle Garden’ by Gordon Kane is also a beautiful book on modern particle physics. And yes, all these books are very accessible to the lay audience.
“The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” – Mohammed Ali the boxer
I adore this man – his arrogance and his personality.
“A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.” – Nietzsche
My own philosophy (and that of most of the post 1950 philosophers) is very influenced by Nietzsche.
Change is very important. And a positive change comes in a person’s personality when he can “deconstuct” “meaning” and “knowledge”, “essence” and “existence” into simplest forms. “Abstract forms”, in fact, is a principal device towards understanding almost any branch – this is called structuralism. The Bourbaki movement in mathematics is parallel to the Levi Strauss’s Structuralism movement in philosophy. I am very skeptical when people call themselves post-structuralists – because the word “post-structural” has no definition really!
Every philosophical movement (and in fact every other human endeavor) stems from psychological needs. So when a man’s understanding of his own psychology and that of people around him increases
his philosophy becomes more and more profound. Also science is a huge counter-check for philosophers. Nietzsche was well-versed with human physiology, Darwin’s theory of evolution and human biology in general. He also read Dostoevsky. His understanding of psychology was so profound that Freud (the great-grandfather of psychology) commented that no human being who lived or will ever live will ever understand his own psychology as well as Nietzsche did. People who criticize Freud don’t really understand that he was a product of his times. Even modern neuroscientists like Eric Kandal have nothing but praise for Freud. Psychotherapy is a derived branch of Freud’s psychoanalysis. Freud couldn’t have predicted psychiatry because the technology wasn’t there.
These people form a large part of my world-view. And there is more to come. Maybe later.
I saw No Smoking once. Liked it. To review it I have to concentrate on details. So must see it againg in order to review it.
You said “AK is here anyways”. Here meaning where?
Hehe
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It reminds me of that scene in Good Will Hunting dude… but anyways, I will let it pass…
Maybe i can sound more knowledgeable if I scan through Durant’s book on the story of philosophy and keep arguing but that would be under the belt so i rest my case… cheers!
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My solemn request – don’t read American philosophers. American movement Pragmatism is probably the most shabby philosophical movement – it is like the “Christian philosophy” for the “Republic Party” people. There are some good American philosopher though – like John Rawls…
If your are into political philosophy – you must read Hannah Arendt and John Rawls.
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Cheers! Hehe.
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Real Abhishek and ravptor should get a room soon…to discuss philosophy..what else?
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If we ever get this room you should join the room, Amar. No one here is an elitist or exclusivist.
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@ravptor
Also, I forgot to say that reading interpreters is OK. But, it is always good to read the original. For example, Heidegger criticized Sartre for misinterpreting his philosophy. While most people (including myself) disagree with Heidegger’s interpretation of Nietzsche. But, IMHO Lyotard is a good interpreter. Delueze is also reasonably good.
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Real Abhishek,
Good to see a practising philosopher here,
I did Philosophy for two years before moving on…….
Your list is fascinating and am excited about revisiting that world.
Whats ur take on Kant? From a personal perspective liked him of all the Western lot
and THEN fell in love with Advaita so after Aham Brahmasmi stopped reading Philosophy, trying to live it!!
It was good seeing so many philosophers quoted in NS, after years have I actually seen any homage being paid to THINKERS.
K-3
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IMHO, Kant was also a product of his times. He was good for his times. But, his work feels dated, particularly in light of new knowledge about the world gained in 19th and 20th century.
Since I am a “hardcore atheist”, I don’t agree with his views on morality which pretty much falls under the umbrella of Christianity.
Philosophy of mathematics is a complicated field. But, I am not very close to Brouwer’s Intutionism (inspired by Kant).
Many of his ideas have become common folklore. So, Kant, Hume and Hegel are definitely important. If you skip them you can not understand modern philosophy. That said, he is definitely not my favorite philosopher.
I have mixed views on Hindu philosophy. I like Hindu philosophy because it is one of the most optimistic philosophies (even when it is blatantly wrong) of ancient times. I also like the pragmatic viewpoints expressed in different portions of Hindu philosophy. I am fond of Bhagavad Gita (I have in fact “sieved” a 100 passages out of it that I like.) There are portions where Bhagavad Gita is megalomaniac – portions that I dislike. I am not fond of Upanishads or Brahma Sutras because of their “mystical” nature.
“Mystical explanations are thought to be deep; the truth is that they are not even shallow.” – Nietzsche
You must be careful in studying Hindu philosophy because you can not understand it without understanding the politics and anthropology of the times. Carvaka and Kapila were original thinkers who got sidelined by the mainstream Vedic influence. The ‘Manu Smriti’ is the most tragic text in the history of Hinduism (also written under the socio-political pressures of the times). The Tantric age of Hinduism was the final blow – the ultimate decadence where nothing but mysticism prevailed. But, I am an admirer of Hindu philosophy “as a decent lifestyle for its times” because it is very pan-theistic, accommodating and relatively non-violent. Do you know that the Zoroastrians and Jews who migrated to a Hindu India were never persecuted. This is the generosity of Hindu culture – something that is getting lost in today’s violent and intolerant avatars of Hindutva like BJP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena and VHP. Shame on them!
What happened in Gujarat is a real shame.
http://www.tehelka.com/
It is the ultimate unbecoming of a Hindu.
These are my views. You may choose to disagree.
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@Kavita
Thanks for reading my post and responding to it.
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Hi Anurag, read ur long, tiring, convincing thought behind your NS…well dude i have a point here as a film maker if you have to xplain people abt ur product…then you are not a film maker.
your film should speak for itself.
don’t try hard..
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@guns
AK is a great filmmaker! It’s shocking when you say ‘…then you are not a film maker’
Let me remind you something about simplicity and enunciation.
“Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler.” – Albert Einstein.
By your twisted logic you will have to certainly discount Godard or Mrinal Sen as a film maker.
For the sake of audience, AK should have given a hint in the end that “There is in fact something to understand.” like ‘The Usual Suspects’ gives a hint in the end which is the key piece of the jigsaw puzzle. The audience loved it and rewatched it multiple times because they had the sense that there was something to understand. When I watched ‘No Smoking’ I was left with the feeling that there was nothing to understand – like in some of the short stories of Kafka… But it is the filmmmaker’s choice whether or not he wants to leave a hint. The Indian audience is definitely not mature to feel “joy” and “confusion” at the same time.
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AK,
Apology accepted (for Main Aisa kyon Hoon (omg), Shakalaka Boom Boom). Guru was not ‘that’ bad – and the fact that the final draft wasn’t entirely yours is enough to redeem you.
No apologies for NS please! Even the Bipasha song does not require apologies. Am sure there were people who would have come to watch the movie anyway, and if it weren’t for the Bipasha song, they would have left 100% disappointed instead of 99.9%.
Most film-makers try and hoodwink with the use of promos and trailers. How many films are as good or half as good as the trailers are? At the end of the day it is a business and marketing matters! There is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ about leading or misleading people to come and watch your movie.
NS is splendid. It shall always remain so. NS is not just an ‘attempt’ as many people call it but is ‘accomplished’. I saw it as many as 3 times in the theatre with 3 sets of people of varying nationalities. A Czech colleague who I dragged along wondered if it released in Prague and wrote to her friends back home asking if it did.
I am your average number-cruncher employed with the big 4 here in Sydney. Unfortunately, I am not in film-making and have nothing to do with it. Yet, I have seen every movie mentioned by everyone here. I can understand, admire and have ‘assumably’ learnt the intricacies of film-making just by virtue of having read books and watched almost every brilliant movie made.
Yet it is not possible for everyone to make a film and express what they want to. I love cinema and have written short stories, rubbish scripts and have created corny background scores for some movie I’d want to make myself or finance someday. However, I don’t think I’d let go off my security blanket and make a movie because its my passion – plainly because I know I wont do it justice entirely.
I sincerely hope that you get a chance to make another No Smoking. Honestly, even Hanuman or Dev D will not make you accessible to everyone. There would be people who won’t watch those movies. Similarly, not everyone can be expected to watch No Smoking. Take 5-6 years and appease the masses but please give us one more DVD for our collection (and for those in Prague).
To each his own.
‘K’eep it up. Cheers.
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@Anurag
It was nice for a PFC reader like me to witness the overwhelming response to PFCOne film festival.
Request: Is it possible to hold a script-writing competition? Hehe. There are people like me whose hands quake while holding a simple digital camera.
We don’t understand light and colors so well. We don’t understand sound, music and melody so well.
It is not our destiny to be filmmakers!
But, I am sure (like myself) many people here would be secretly nurturing the hope of writing (films or literature). Most of us will turn out to be exceptionally bad writers. But, even if a few good ones turn up they will be a good omen for future of Hindi cinema which perpetually starves for good writers.
Please respond to my request even if your answer is ‘N’!
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Hi Anurag,
I saw no smoking and it kept me at the verge of my seat… since then I have been thinking of what u must be thinking when u wrote it…. U say its your story, Its the story of arrogance but whose arrogance Ks(which is destroyed) or Babas (which survives). If its your story who are u K or baba? in a lot u have written, u have identified ur self with K but he breaks he has to give up the “I”… Baba survives.. ur a survivor, have managed to keep ur “I” and have paid the price for it but u “successfully preserved the I “
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dear Anurag,
though there are thousand who felt injured by the film, there are few like us , who care, appreciate and encourage,the one rule to the film making, which i thing should be stuck to always is
“the film should do justice to itself”
NS has done more than that. it beautifully portrayed the subconscious, the struggle, morality elements of the narcissistic protagonist.
well those who call it bad are those who go for the usual, song, dance, melodrama romance, not the lovers of real cinema. and masters were all rejected in home country, like kurasawa,satyajit ray, even many present day film makers like adoor.
your belief in yourself, your vision, intensity of the dialogs, the depth in characters and inept screenplay are just what you need to be more than what you are now.
wishing that you become a renowned director. my take on NS, is posted in my blog, http://ratedbynik.blogspot.com/2007/11/no-smoking-chronicles.html
do care to correct me, if you got the time for same,
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I second abhishek(real one, reportedly) on holding a script writing competition….
i also second him on the fact that ayn rand’s ‘literary’ merit was zero.
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Haha Thanks KJ!
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why do you have to write a (real) abhishek…neways none of ma bizness…well plz come out of this world cinema hangover…Indian cinema is going through an IDENTITY crisis…beside this naach gaana we have self proclaimed film makers like….Man come out of it..establish something very INDIAN on screen..and yeah an intelligent person cannot make a film…he can only crtisize…its a job of creative people…so think from heart dont use ur BRAINS…
THANKS
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NS is a gusty movie to make but even as much as I loved it, I can see how cinema like this will always have limited audience. its a movie that lynch, cronenberg, o.stone would be proud of. don
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also dude, get the whip out and get the muppets sitting on Paanch to release it.. DVD will do!
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Anurag,
This is my friend’s (from Pune) as is comment about NS:
“Watched “No smoking” in theater. Very very brave attempt. Went to see the damn show when India V Pakistan match was underway. Hall was nearly empty except 20 odd youngsters. Of which I could see at least 5 of the guys were from FTII. I reckon its the bravest commercial bollywood attempt I have seen so far.
As I am reading about the guy, his interviews and film reviews over the net, I feel so sorry for him. Inspite the fact that we claim to have an old and a sizeable tradition of film making. Its still in the commercial sense appears to be boastful and bombastic. Our journalists and audience couldn’t take it. Our audience has no idea that a linear story narration is just one of the ways to present the film. And anything else is just labelled as pseudo-intellectual. I could judge it from the reaction passed during the film and reviews.
I liked the film very much. Would love to see again 2-3 times. Stunning visuals!! It reminded me of so many vanguard films I saw recently. Memento/Requiem for a dream etc. I am a bit reserved about the cast though but the stories I have read on the net says the director had no choice but to work with these actors. I sincerely hope if not in India at least internationally the film will do very well and might fetch credit the guy deserves. Thats another way of saying
he might get projects and funding also.”
The points i’m making here is:
– This guy doesn’t know PFC
– He watches hindi films very rarely, and I kinda forced him to go watch NS on big screen, i knew he would not otherwise, just by seeing the cast.
– His comment is i guess a general reaction of the folks who like intelligent cinema.
Other point i want to make is, as you said NS was with you for 8 years, and you are creator of it, so on the basis of that you should give at least some time for viewers to get into it, viewers are smart, for some, they’ll get it in 1-2 screenings, (if it’s available for viewing that is, anyways that’s a different story), for some, will require more visits .. but those are kinda haunted with NS, will ultimately find their way through it.
So please keep making your kind of cinema, we seriously want such stuff out there, there are sizable amount of viewer for all kinds of cinema … all the best for future projects.
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@MR. ANURAG KASHYAP,
>-
HELLO SIR,:), I AM POSTING FOR THE FIRST TIME AND WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT I AM SIMPLY A HUGE FAN,AC,COOLER…AND ALL THOSE STUFF,OF YOUR MOVIES,THOUGH I COULD’NT WATCH ‘NO SMOKING’ AS I HAVE EXAMZ AHEAD AND I COULD’NT BUNK CLASSES AT RIGHT TIME,:((,BUT I AM WAITING FOR ITS DVD RELEASE,AND HAVE YOU OFFICIALLY RELEASED THE SCRIPT OF ANY OF YOUR RELEASED MOVIES? IF YES THEN I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO CHECK THEM OUT…:)
WITH LOTS OF LOVE,
RAHUL
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Hanuman returns is directed by V. G Samant. :( (as per indiafm) Is this another movie or the same one Anurag is talking about.
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om prakash seresta indiafm has wrong info..
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You seemed to have missed an epic battle of philosophy Anurag, lol. Rand was maligned!!! btw what are ur favourite movies? and can you share more seriously what DEV D is going to be about.. or will it be a surprise?
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Kabhi Kabhi mere dil mai Khyal aata hai ki Agar NS ki story Ulti hoti to kaisa hota..
K all by himself wants to quit smoking and ppl dont let him quit or rather they keep on tempting him.
K cig chodna chahta hai lekin doosron ki sobat mai chod nahi paa raha hai..Uske dost/GF etc uski smoking style se kafi impress hai..Time to time they tell him to do some stunts.. smoke rings etc.. Woh fir bhi chodna chahta hai coz its making him weak..recently he saw a documentary on cancer and he is more determined to quit smoking as he is scared of death..Har din woh kehta hai kal se cig chod dunga aur doosre din fir yahi kehta hai ki Kal se cig chod dunga..His friends are all smokers too.. His friends taunt him whenever he talks abt quitting..Itna asan nahi hai chodna..Tu 10 baar chod ke pakda hai.. Ofcourse Passive smoke from his friends cig dont help him either.
This is K’s fight with his own temptation and surrounding coz he now realises CIG SMOKING IS INJURIOUS TO HEALTH.
I believe reverse story bhi interesting hoti thi.
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The interpretation of the story would still be the same as the existing one or open for multiple interpretation like the existing one..
Anurag, yr thoughts sir.
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hey
Anurag..just went through your article (not completely though..maybe i was hoping to see this article few days back..just the timing is different …) i just feel its high time you stop coming with these defence issues and try to justify your each and every moment and then balance it by talking vice versa..c’mon you are too good to be doing this shordy job about your work. I love and respect you as a film maker and if I won’t understand anything in no smoking i would go and watch it again irrespective of good or bad reviews are but for fucking lola’s sake please do not write these defence article . . you
have made something you believed in and just leave it till there .. if you want to make some
dumb audience friendly movie ..please do so but don’t give justification for all this … i know its a difficult industry to survive in and i might be no one else other than the dud talking from the other side..but I feel that every artist should just stick his work and if people don’t understand it ..he should leave it for the time to judge its future…Orson welles didn’t came up with a defence article after c.KANE was marked as the worst film by the critics that year..but he continued making masterpieces year after yea..every artist has to give its work some time..I am not saying you are the greatest film
maker but atleast you are something through which
we hope to see some change ..and please don’t take away that little respect i have for you..just keep making ‘cinema’…
As my fav film maker J.P.Melville after his first flick(which was autobiographical and was dud at b
ox office) went on to quote that all he want to make now is commercial cinema and he moved on to make some of the best masterpieces ever made…hope you follow the same path .. and for fu
cking lola’s sake again…
which movie have used that plato, Sinatara begining too??? have seen it somwhere!!!! other than NS..
ps: In case this article was horribly inspiring please buy ‘melville on melville’ from amazon..only single copy is left ..and i am too eager too read it someday … don’t think you will mind giving a photocopy..
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@KJ(Comment No 81)
Are u Karan Johar??…….anyway ur interpretations for NS is really really amazing…..due to u i am unable to understood most of NS.
Now, I have following questions want to discuss with u or anybody……
1)Baba bangali said if John will smoked 5th one ,then john will leave his aatma.But without smoking 5th one he leave his aatma by jumping in bathtub.
But he is already quit smoking after 4th one. So there is no need to leave his aatma????which has to leave after 5th one??
2)KJ, u said “That 1 rupee would have been the price of releasing K
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@Anurag Kashyap
Thank u director…….for replying to me (a common audience)……..Now i have lots of my questions solved (read comments 96)……..I am still connecting all points of NS.For it I will watch it one more time.
Ur concept for carpet at car is really mind-blowing…..what a mind fucking u are….amazing…….Is tarah ke metaphor to main bachpan main apni UP board ki kitaab main Kabeer, Tulsi ke dohe main padta tha……..ab pahli baar movie main bhi…really nice.
I do’nt no movie is good or bad for other people, but it exploring my brain at full wave lenth…i am enjoying it……
Pls read my questions in comment 218.Hope u will reply to them…..
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Hi Anurag,
Read about the security thing you talk about… how people dont want to leave the secure life to pursue their dreams…. but I really want to ask you… is it not that talk about ’suffering to realise your dream’ too glorified, probably it is this idea that drives a lot of people away from their dreams… they beieve it will take a lot to realise it and it might not be realised in the end so why suffer….
people who realise their dreams are labelled lucky…I also started out to realise my dream…. rather I have realised some and am in the process of working on some others and one thing I realised is what matters most is your belief, you can actually do anything… in fact things themselves fall into place once you start to work towards your dream (and it has nothing to do with being lucky) and no you dont suffer more when you are following your dream you suffer the same when you dont follow it…. you might feel more hurt in the process of following it as you want it more.
I am waiting for the day when my present dream will be realised and i will be able to tell people it was not my suffering that took me through everything rather it is my preservance and my belief.
Just wanted to share this with you, Anurag can i have your email id mine is [Admin Note (HG): Do Not Publish your email!] …. I am an actress and am damm passionate about cinema, I am educated as an architect from Lucknow but started pursuing acting after college that is august last year and got work on television but while working I realised though I am already following my dream but now my dream is changing… a part of it being fulfilled already but still this was not what I aspire for I want to work be famous and all but most of all what would satisfy my soul is good work, work I can relate to, work I aspired to do when i was in college…of course that does not mean I am putting any less effort in my present shows I really feel exhilirated when I am on the set inspite of it being a totally shitty script and direction… i try to do my work with truth…
dont know why telling you all this… but somehow watching no smoking exploded something in me I felt as if there is someone here now who will change it all… want to do it myself one day.. its a start- I beieve I will and so will you.
Once again can i get your email id mine is [Admin Note (HG): Do Not Publish your email!]
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Please let me know if it is you who has sent the id on my account…hope its not someone pretending to be anurag.
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I Loved NS yeh alag baat hai kuch palle nahi pad raha tha!!sant mahatma waali baatein,, aatma and all,,sould evil, sabse bore hotha hai yaaar anuraag u did what u wanted 2 do thats imp,,ab ghulab laal hai tho laaal kyon laal hai ..niways lately saw.MotherO mine brillaint Photography,,,excellent script mind blowing performance ur take on it…GULAL,,kab fek rahe ho,,something i did not like,,was that carc crash scene kaafi amateur CG tha,,aisa takia ka sec waala character patehtic was more like karisma kapoor in andaz apna…aur anurag like da world tum wetsern…clutlure se ekdum,,,highly influenced ho, i still say BF was an excellent cinematic achievement but da msg is all wrong,,an honestly made unhonest film,,Concersation coppola ki gene hackman waali i saw last weeek MAN aaj bhi koi ithna tech sound movie nahi bana sakta,,life of others talk to her like i mentioned earlier dont end nmy day,,without 2-3 internation ventures plz recco some,,,please explain NS bfr i die nahi tho will haunt u,,baba bengali mum ke local train se inspire hua kya???
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akriti yes that was me..
sid there are many interpretations floating around.. see what suits you.. mine was very simple which i have already stated in my two posts and various comments..
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Anurag, you complain that we didn’t get the film. But what I liked about the film was that you don’t spoon-feed the audience with whatever you’d like us to get. This film will take more than one viewing for me to understand some of the more metaphorical aspects. Most Indian films you can watch one time and get everything, so subsequent viewings don’t really reveal anything, but NS is like an onion.
Don’t unnecessarily dumb down your future films, and don’t consider No Smoking as an artistic failure. We need more films like this. This is the first Indian film I plan to buy on DVD in years.
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@Dileep Kumar. thanx man for the nice words. anyway, i can’t write a detailed post now. gave my CAT exam 2day, have collg exams from 2moro. will reply to ur answers on thursday. kindly bear (and wish me luck too)…
but in the meantime if K had smoked the 5th cigarette in siberia, he would have been released (not just his soul), but it is only when he gave in that his soul became baba’s.
and if i was karan johar, i don’t think i would have understood anything in no smoking beyond the 1st nanosecond. u don’t really expect him to know anything about multiverses and event horizons do you??
i’m k j, just k j…..
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Anurag
why u r interpreting the movie so much……..
n want us 2 interpret n keep on doing dat way…..
no i m not talking about three “E”….. s
but i have found a new definition of good cinema…..it shud keep me “engaged”……… a good cinema may not necessarily interest or entertain……..but keep me engaged nd i keep on debating with one friend of mine about “maqbool” …bcoz i was disengaged seeing dat movie………
Now how do i classify ” No Smoking”……….it
kept me engaged but not necessarily i enjoy it……….
PLZ HELP ME
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Also i believe Revathy is the best actress to have ever descended on Indian cinema
As a Hindi Speaking guy I have just seen her
” Anjali”, “Muskurahat”, ” Raat “,”Love”, ” Nishabd”,
” Ab tak Chappan ”
The way she uses her expressions r marvellous,no other actress can do that
She is the best….
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:”>
Hey Anurag,
Do u think u will ever do an out n out comedy? Maybe even a more Woody Allen-ish will be a dream coming from u….. By Woody Allen, just mean a bit of conversational comedy,,,,,nnothing else really
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Anurag
why u r interpreting the movie so much
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You know, sometimes movies make a viewer work harder to come to their own version of the truth.
Some audiences want everything tied up neatly by the end so they can leave smiling. Smaller numbers of viewers, but still many people, disdain spoon-fed concepts. AK, it’s okay to make your viewers work.
Have you seen Rithy Panh’s “S-21: The Khmer Rouge Killing Machine”? Shaped a bit like “Shoah,” this documentary shows men recalling what happened to them and what they did in Phnom Penh’s Tuol Sleng prison. The guards, who were boys at the time, are asked to reenact their daily tasks and how they treated the prisoners like animals.
What S21 doesn’t do is give you a history lesson. It doesn’t show horrific photos from the past. It doesn’t indict particular people or point to any heroes. Since no one has ever been taken to task for the atrocities, this movie simply aims to restore Cambodia’s collective memory that it did indeed happen.
It’s up to us to determine the truth of the matter; no God-like voice informs us from above. If the viewer wants to know who was responsible for the killing fields and what are they still doing in the highest levels of government, there are libraries, newspapers and the Web for that.
I was thinking of this because so many people are relieved to have you explain parts of No Smoking. Myself included. But it is exciting that so many people have bothered to come here, read everything, hash it out. –Even if it is just to rant. I would count this as engagement, definitely not spoon-feeding.
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Real Abhishek
@198
was embroiled in a self created ethical dilemma about using PFC for a personal philosophical discussion,
so pls write to me [ comment on any of my postings and I will get your email id ]and we can continue the conversation on Charvaka n Kapila………
pity about you being a realist:(
Me Mystic.
Quit ‘Cafe Philo’ after a few visits…
K-3
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Man… you should have run this one through the film festival circuit first. Its a gem thats dying a slow unfortunate death. The symbolism the homage… most people here don’t get it, I don’t want to sound arrogant and pretend to be one of those who does completely, but they just don’t. If there is a chance, I hope you still get to take it to a festival where a cinephile audience gets to see it and I bet they’ll love it. And once the international acclaim comes then only will the wankers at home put the effort to actually try to use their heads instead of expect to be served. I know this sounds very whimsical and childish, but it just pains me to see a movie like this get lost from all public memory with time. I hope you get a lucky break man, I really do.
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Dear Anurag,
i am just another poor common audience……..i loved the movie…….but hated tht you explained it…….i loved how it suffocated…….by explaining it you have yourself dimmed its excellence…….as Gulzarsaab once wrote……
“pyaar ko pyaar hi rehne do, koi naam na do.”
……..i love your posts in general and a lot of discussion tht went with it (not tht Philosophy 101 class:) ) thnks for making those movies
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Hoonhaar Goonda bhai, ek potti apna email address baant rahi tho tera kya hua re johnny! hahaha! Idhar ke ladke logo ko enjoy karne de na!!!
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Kavita,
At a certain a point, you have to make important choices in life e.g. – What is more important for you – Happiness OR Truth? (Hence I stressed on the importance of psychology as a prerequisite to philosophy)
Newton and Darwin struck “mortal blows” to God.
But, Nietzsche struck a “fatal blow”. So, I often use him as my “quote factory” while arguing about existence of God and theory of religion.
Nietzsche on “faith”
“Faith: not wanting to know what is true.”
Nietzsche on “Death of God”
“…God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?…”
Important points to note:
Chanakya (also known as Kautilya) was one of the founders of political philosophy (along with Confucius). Point to note – He was a follower of Ajivika (now an extinct faith) – the most nihilistic of all philosophies – it denies the the existence of “free will”.
As human knowledge of science increases it will slowly and slowly eclipse metaphysics. The death of metaphysics is inevitable – just as the growth of science is inevitable. But, there are questions that science can not answer e.g. questions in ontology – you depend on metaphysics for “plausible answers” – Plausible and not provable because of the speculative nature of argumentation.
There are claims in sciences that are false and claims in religions that are false. Difference – scientific claims may be true or false but they are always and always “falsifiable”. Mystical claims or theological arguments after a certain point are not even “falsifiable” although there is no “plausible reason” to believe in the validity of the claim.
All faiths that originated in Indian subcontinent have the following common factors:
1. Body-soul dualism (parallels to mind-brain Dualism of Descartes.) Most modern neuroscientists don’t believe in the claim.
2. Theory of Karma – Interesting theory. Not falsifiable. Hence – not interesting to me.
Carvaka, Kapila and Sramans were (mostly) atheistic philosophers.
Among the Indian faiths Sramanism (which includes Jainism, Buddhism and Ajivika) are almost always true and they are almost always extremely pessimistic – to the point that they are nihilistic.
Carvaka’s philosophy is refreshingly optimistic. The epistemology of Carvaka’s philosophy is loosely related to “philosophy of perception” and empiricism.
Kapila’s philosophy is also called Samkhya. Samkhya is very similar in many ways to Sraman philosophies. It substantially addresses ontological and epistemological issues. To me, the ontology of Samkhya is not very interesting, but the epistemological thought seems very progressive.
When I criticized Ayn Rand, I criticized her for the “truth value” of her philosophy. Most people ask questions like “Does this philosophy work for you?” – which probably means does it “empower” you? Does believing in it make you feel “happy”?
I know for a fact that Rand’s philosophy can be very inspiring. There was a time when I was insanely (and unreasonably) infatuated with it. But, when you start seeing the kinks in the armor, then you realize that it is not true.
Always note that philosophy or faith – right or wrong – can be very empowering. The Marxist philosophy enabled Stalin and Pol Pot to carry out systematic genocides. The fundamentalist jehadi faith resulted in 9/11. The fundamentalist Hindutva resulted in Gujarat genocide. The Crusades resulted in several genocides in the name of Christianity. It is not just religion but even nationalism that can get despicably jingoistic. E.g. The Ottoman Empire inspired by Turkish nationalism resulted in Armenian genocide. Racial supremacy is probably the worst kind of “faith”. No human being in history will ever absolve Hitler for what he did to the Jews.
Lastly, atheism is on the rise. Lot of “closet atheists” are “coming out” – becoming “hardcore atheists”.
Most importantly, Atheists should also be careful to not be jingoistic themselves and be benevolent and tolerant of other faiths. (e.g. Lot of atrocities on devout Christians by atheist Communists.)
There are three very interesting recent books on atheism:
Atheist Manifesto: The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam – Michael Onfray.
Onfray is more concerned about the above three religions because monotheistic religions are known to be more violent then poly-theistic, pagan or pan-theistic religions. This was (I believe) first noted by the great Sigmund Freud in his book “Moses and Monotheism”.
Then there are 2 other recent books that are extremely popular:
The God Delusion – Richard Dawkins
God is Not Great: The Case Against Religion – Christopher Hitchens
You can request the administrator for my email id if you want a more private space for discussion.
IMHO, Existentialism is a great alternative philosophical lifestyle that can potentially give you “truth” as well as “happiness”.
Hope this helps…Hehe.
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Arrr. Sorry for typos.
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@KJ
Thanks for reply……..
All the best for ur exam….:)>-
I will wait for ur detail reply for my questions…..
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Kavita,
Sorry for sounding so preachy.
I guess there are lighter ways to say things…
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEj3g5GOYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUH1H-b-N5o
Really funny!
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ellooo..
Mr. Anurag,
Just read my comment i wrote yest ..ah!! it seems so horribly romantic..melodrama is something that turns up so quickly as soon as alchol drops start flowing in..anyways .. the main thing i wanted to ask was ..why was editing of no smoking was so bad!!! at lotta places ..it was just clearly visible..and why were these songs put in the background (esp..kash laga – seems very abrupt atleast i felt it) ..it seems like some one forcefully did it??? …or was it all your call!!!
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Sorry AK for stealing your space!
But, just to end my discussion, I will like to point out that the nature of faith and struggle for faith and struggle against faith is beautifully explored in the movie ‘The Believer’
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247199/
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aadarniye anurag sir
pranam
kushal hai asha karta hun ki aap bhi sakushal honge.
aage baat yah hai ki mere hostel ke doston ne aapki film {no smoking} dekhi unhe bahut achha laga .film dekhne ke baad ve log smoking chodne ki baat karne lage hain.mere ek friend ne film dekhkar kaha ki film ki ending bada hi surprisingly hai.dusre dost ne kaha ki film ke ending par jo bipasha vala song hai vo bahut aacha hai agar vo song film ke andar hota to aur bhi achha hota. kuch dosto ka kahana hai ki kul mila kar yah film highly intelectual logon ke liye bana hai.halan ki maine abhi tak film nahi dekhi hai kyonki kuch dino ke liye mai out of bombay chala gaya tha do tin roj pahle hi bombay vapas aaya hun jald se jald no smoking dekhne ki asha rakhta hun.aapka phone number shayad change ho gaya hai bahut koshish kiya phone par bat karne ki par viphal raha.
vishesh sab thik hai .hanuman return ke liye all the best.
apka murari kumar {09819180513}
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So, thanks to a friend, I’ve had an A-HA!! moment. There’s a spoken line in Phoonk De that goes “You are now at the limits of the multiverse but not the beyond the space of this dream.”
My friend says he has read a book that refers to the “meta-verse” is called “Snow Crash” by Neal Stephenson. He says, “The metaverse refers to the parallel, or alternate, computing universe that Hiro, the story’s protagonist, connects to to escape the ‘real’ universe. Very interesting, in fact, that was the story that lead to all the social networking phenomena, like Second Life.”
I don’t know if NS and Snow Crash are related, but the idea of Second Life and a separate journey for body and soul do sound similar.
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breaking news:.tan..ta..tannnn…!.
.anurag kahyap dancing to the beats of saawariya….et tu anurag!..hehe..
reasons…..loud music,alcohol.very attractive lady friend…hmmm…!
now dats some news…!!!
details @http://spotboy.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1195477783
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hey…anurag..when is mumbai-10 ( 10 sshort features about mumbai..)releasing…is it something on lines of “paris-je t’aime”..about romances in paris…cause i loved most of the features in that movie..
.who are starring in the feature of mumbai-10 that u’hv directed..?
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By the way, I just found this comment on Rediff for Raja Sen’s article!!Brilliant! :D :D
http://www.rediff.com/movies/2007/nov/15rs.htm
PARNAAM RAJA SAAR JI …………………………………
by on Nov 16, 2007 03:03 PM | Hide replies
HELLO RAAJA SAAR JI,
THIS IS GOLU,
I ATTENDING RAJA SIR’S COACHING CLASS FOR SPEKEENG ENLISH. HIS LESSONS IN “30 DIN MEIN ANGREZI SIKHIYE” IS BHERI GOUD.
RAJA SIR JI, IS TAKENING THIS CLASS IN PALAM VILLAGE CENTER FROM SUNDAY TO THURSDAY…ON FRIDAY HIS HOLIDAYING. ON FRIDAY HE IS MOVIE DEKHING AND REVIEW LIKHING.
YOU CAN ALSO LEARN FARRATEDAAR ENGLISH TALKING FROM SIR…SIR IS SPECIALLY GIVING A BOOKLET OF “DIPHCULT ENGLISH WORDS” FREE WITH HIS COURSE. WE VIDYARTHIS USE THESE WORD IN PHRONT OF PEEPEL TO CONFUSIYA THEM.THEY GETTING IMPRESSED WITH OUR ENGLISH DIPHICULT WORDS.
THANKS YOU RAJA SIR
GOLU & CHUNNU
PALAM VILLAGE CENTER ( ENGLIS CRASS COURSE)
ROLL NO. 491
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Here is KJ’s review of SLB.
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main36.asp?filename=hub241107sevenmen.asp
What a tragedy! KJ is an SLB-wannabe!
If Arun Shourie were to write one more “Worshiping False Gods” it would be on this theme.
Why doesn’t SLB just say “I prefer to paint each movie with one color at a time. First Black then Blue.”
KJ can then say “I prefer to paint everything with gold. In my next movie I will make SRK PZ and RM wear golden costumes from head to toe.”
Poor One-trick-ponies! The audience loves their trick. So they repeat the trick. So much for megalomania. So much for power. So much for exceedingly bad taste.
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@235
Abhishek babu,
we’ll get kicked out of PFC and Anurag will refuse to meet to me ever if this goes on:((
I am totally enjoying this discussion with you except that I am not getting a word in the edgeways:)Pls write to me – ‘alag’ say.
I prefer Truth to Happiness anyday and yes Christopher Hitchen’s God in Not Great is the only book that have I read among your reccos. Will read up others and then chat more.
Am kinda familiar with Indian Philosophical systems you mentioned and like I said my mental/genetic make up has clung to Vedanta……
thanx for the video links and for taking so much interest, pls pls do continue, par ‘akaylay’ may
K-3
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K 3 ji
I responded to your post
http://passionforcinema.com/women-and-films-the-tragedy/
So now you can start a fresh discussion on a fresh platform. Alag se. Akalay mein. Hehe.
Cheers
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pl carry on k3 and the real abhishek..am reallly enjoying this
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I am glad AK ji.
Hamara saubhagya – aapko hamara small talk pasand!
Hehe.
Please don’t keep your cards close to your chest!
Please join the discussion.
There is an interesting article by W.T. Gowers, a Fields Medalist. The title of this article is
“Does mathematics need a philosophy?”
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~wtg10/philosophy.html
We could ask an analogous question.
“Does cinema need a philosophy?”
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@AK ji
I am assuming that you do have some opinions on these topics.
e.g. In “Water(2005)” you have the premise shifting from “God is Truth” to “Truth is God.”
‘No Smoking’, of course, begins with philosophical quotes.
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Ah, I see in my haste that I misquoted the voice on Phoonk De, but I like the idea of there being space left in a dream. As mentioned in the article above, the right quote is:
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Here are some other great videos:
This is part 1:Foucault vs Chomsky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbUYsQR3Mes
Here is a lecture by Steven Pinker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQM8PzCEY0
Here is a small talk by Howard Gardener
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-SE_wVoJWI
Another by Eric Kandel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_AbTQ1gcMI
Freud and Jung on God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-EAv2waXbY&feature=related
Hope everyone enjoys this!
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The real abhishek : plz dont talk “alag se” for we a re having a gr8 time reading ur posts and following your links : plzzzz carry on : plz carry on “yahi pe”
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Hi Anurag,
I saw no smoking and belive it or not ..i just compared you movie with matrix..a real world and a world inside you …that was a very smart way of displaying a no smoking act and i really loved it ..i was looking forward for a such kind of movie from our cinema and u started with it which i am really proud of you .i really like the plot ..its natural for the our audience to understand it as its not a film just to get entertained or educated ..but has to be beyond it …..i liked your movie and thumbs up for you ..looking forward for such great piece of art in the near future…
great work sir
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Intelligent or not, lets admit it, its a fuck up. Coz you dont fucking explain the films. yash fucking raj or karan fuckup johars wont change the industry coz they want to make movies on a budget scale which the other young & extreemly talented directors like AK should not have a chance. Ramu did screw AK’s career. AK will never talk about it. Neither will he hold grudge about it. But instead of saying Yash or jo(kers) wont change the cinema, when AK got a chance to make a film that will create a new genre, should not have fuckin made a intelligent film or never released in india coz had AK made the film intelligent as well as interesting (which infact before the last 20 minutes of the movi)& if they thought that it would cater to wide masses, then the ending should have be more surreal. why? it would have given the strength to all the small time producers to talk to the new yound lot of directors to make films which will eventually makd the YASH and JOKERS to change their film making.
But the chance is lost. AK gives the chance to the shit heads to pounce back. what AK forgets is that nomatter how fucking terrifically brilliant he has been in his 15 years, he failed to change the film industry with his NO SMOKING why? coz he fucking made a film and wants to defend it.
if our janta was such a intelligent fucks then we would have been living in a different world.
no the point is not to make a spoon fed film. just make the fucking point understand, and there you are … you have your cake and eat it too.
AK can change the film industry. he can and i know he will.
But definately n[-(t this way.
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No Smoking – This movie was required for Indian Film Industry… yep.. it has unruffled a lot of feathers. No wonder this project has managed to garner such attention. Lot of diff perspectives emerging. Thanks Anurag for taking ur time out and discussing your interpretation of the movie.
You got balls of steel man! Take a BOW
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hi anurag,
post ‘no smoking’ and ‘aag’ since u and RGV are sailing in the same boat, why dont you guys come together and work on a kick ass script and blow our minds!
i’m sure you guys can do that…i believe you’ll will!!
i know a ’satya’ can never happen again…just make something better than it!;)
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Hey Anurag,
Read your post on No Smoking… I couldn’t have agreed more on your views… I can completely understand what you must be going through at this stage, as I also am an aspiring filmmaker, but my dreams were crushed by my relatives saying that may be I am too dark, too brooding or too upfront for the Indian audiences…
That is precisely one of the reasons why I admire your work so much – Because it digs the surface and gets under the skin of human beings and provokes them to inspect their dark side…
I have a story idea that I want to write as a script… and would need your help… If you could just drop me a mail, I can get in touch with you…
I look forward to your response with great interest… Please send me a mail at vrnathan1982 [at] yahoo.co.in
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hey anurag,
i quite understand what must have crossed your mind before you accepted doing NS. Its good that you did it for now you know for sure what not to do and what to do. the confusion is out of your way i hope… i wish PAANCH sees the light of the day … some day before this entire generation who believes in you is wiped out.
my heart goes to you when i read all the comments by your fans. thats a big achievement for you boss. so what if the biggies aren’t loking at you. just think that they are securing themselves from you. :d
being an actor i would like to be your any film, and not being in them will only increase the desire to be in them. and i think i am definitely better than the john abrahms in talent if not in looks. no insults intended there.
keep it up dude.
riju bajaj [at] gmail.com
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Hi Anurag,
If u were
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Thanks Nikhil.
I am glad that people are enjoying this.
And glad that AK has given a green signal to continue the discussion here.
But, it has to be a discussion where others also contribute. I am not a prophet! I am uncomfortable with monologues. It’s OK if you go wrong. It’s OK if I go wrong. No one claims to be always correct. The maximum claim I make is that I am opinionated. So if your are also opinionated shoot your opinions! Otherwise shoot your questions!
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@AK
I won’t be able to write a full-fledged review of ‘No Smoking’ unless I completely internalize it – (the way I have internalized HKA, Anand, Guide, Pyaasa and Apu)
But, I have an idea – a short story that gives a “very” alternative climax to ‘No Smoking.’
I will be busy next few days as I will be traveling.
But, I promise to write this short-story followed by a review of ‘No Smoking’.
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@249 :d Anurag, you asked for it!
Abhishek,
Firstly why do you group Carvaka with Kapila?
Yoga/Samkhya/Nyaya/Vaisheshika/Purva and Uttara Mimansa [ Vedanta ] are Astika in their philosophy.
Lokayata[Carvaka]/Jaina/Baudha are Nastika
So I do not comprehend how Kapila who founded Samkhya [ and quoted repeatedly in Bhagavad Geeta as the 'best of men' ] can cater to ‘Epicurean’ beliefs.
What is knowledge for an Atheist/Existentialist?
Your experience in this life? [this and only!]
How can you say you will derive both Happiness and Truth from it?
For Happiness to be ‘True’ it has to be permanent. And for to know the ‘Truth’ one needs Self Realization.
Though I say I value Truth over Happiness and I do,TRUTH CONSCIOUSNESS BLISS are not mutually exclusive. They are one entity which I term God.
Given that you do not believe [ pardon my use of the much hated word by atheists:) ] in God/Being/Entity, Karma, Re-birth,Body Soul Duality what and who are you going to Realize/Know and how?
Please explain your stand on Ethics and Morality. [ repeating my email queries at the request of Mr NSingh ]
What goads an atheist to be ‘good/ nice/upright’ given that there is no tomorrow to look forward to when you can be punished/rewarded.
If you are doing good for good’s sake and not for God, then are all atheists motivated thus and not because of your brought up / society / conditioning / law enforcement ??
How do you call it a philosophical system if it is not replicable and sustainable?
Let me take you on a different journey. I am willing to change my ‘belief system’ if you can convince me otherwise.
All the sages/saints in India from various Yugas have maintained that they have ‘Experienced’ Godhood. Oh! Did I say EXPERIENCE, has it not been co-opted by Existentialists? They also say that one has only to follow certain paths to gain a similar EXPERIENCE [ bhakti, gnana , karma ]
I will stick to men form this Yuga only since you may not approve of History either [ YOU did NOT experience it did you, so how can it be true ?? ]
So Paramansa Yogananda, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Ramana Maharishi, Krishnamurthy, Swami Jnanananda [ who was a mystic first and then taught Physics at Andhra University ] each one of them who very clearly state on having ‘realized’ the TRUTH and telling us “You can do it too ” was taking us on a wild goose chase?
Kyun Bhai? They were not Fillum Directors!
I believe in Karma because how else will you explain a Saawariya and people calling it Art while I languish in anonymity:)
I also believe in Re-birth [ yo to OSO ] becoz how will Karma work itself out if not.
I will then also have to believe in Soul-Body Duality and to fix that Duality resort to Advaita hai kay nahi?
[ or Dwaita/Vishistha as the case maybe ]
This belief system of mine helps me to act ethically, answers Epistemological/Ontological Qs , Fulfills my Metaphysical Quest [ aren't we all born with a "where did we come from....where are we going?" query?? ] AND is also SUBSTANTIATED by my predecessors.
Kahaan Gaye Woh Log!
So work with me and tell me which premise of mine is false and why meanwhile:
Since you say you have collated 100 shlokas from the Bhagawad Geeta please share a few and we can talk on it and come to a clearer understanding.
Also why quote Manu Smriti out of context? Becoz every non-Indian, non-Brahmin, non-Male uses this shtick to flog the dead horse?
The SACRED BOOKS OF THE HINDUS,
Chaturdasavidyasthana Includes:
4 Vedas: Rig, Yajur, Sama, Atharva
6 Vedangas: Siksa/Vyakarna/Chandas/Nirukta/Jyotisa/Kalpa
Upangas:
Puranas/the Philosophies mentioned above/and Dharmashastras [ this includes SMRITIS AND SUTRAS, among which ONE of the Smritis is ManuSmriti, how come no one talks of any other Smriti? ] Yes, all of the Smritis were factors of time/place as all religions and philosophies are.
4 Upavedas:
Ayurveda/Arthashastra [ where comes ur Kautilya ]/Dhanurveda/Gandharvaveda
The Orthodox Hindu Texts on Tattvajnana being:
Bhagavad Gita
Upanishads
Brahmasutras
[except for some parts of BG you do not accept the other two, but have you read them? coz of the Upanishads at least 12 are available if not 18 and Brahmasutras have as many Bhashyas/ commentaries written on them......]
Tantra!! now we are talking.
It is not mysticism at all, again it is about embracing our fears. Our fads and fobias.
Sex.Death.Drugs. [ yeah Rock n Roll, Death Metal ]
Have you read AGHORA? you might actually enjoy it!
Now Tibetan Buddhism which incorporates Mahayana and a lot of Tantrism is a fabulous study of how seemigly apossite thoughts can co-mingle.
Did you get to watch Milarepa? I saw it last month and have been postponing a post on it…..
You may brush all this off as the almost dead Metaphysics : pls watch WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW, quoting several Quantum Physicists on how LITTLE we know
I shall now go watch the links you sent again….
K-3
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@ K-3
Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly,
Man got to ask – why, why, why?
Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land,
Man got to say – He understand.
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I am answering some of the questions KK asked me in her mail to me because I think everyone can benefit from thinking about them.
My questions:
1. Do you believe/ do not believe in God?
My response: If Yes then I will find it extremely hard to argue with you if you point your finger upwards for every question.
“After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands. ” – Nietzsche.
ROFL. I am not so much of an anti-theist as Nietzsche but I am definitely atheistic.
If your answer is No. Then question 2
2. Do you believe in “transcendental” OR “non-physical”
My response: If you have studied and “believe” in Newton’s Classical Mechanics, Special and General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics – then you can not “believe” in “non-physical” or “transcendental”. By this I mean that ‘Theory of Karma’ or ‘Soul and Rebirth’ are based on transcendental premise. So, you can either believe in an entirely physical world – which will afford you logic in your argumentation OR you can make “unfalsifiable and implausible hypothesis” like ‘aatma’ and ‘karma.’ Physics has still a long way to go – Quantam Field Theory – Quantum Gravity – Physics at Planck scale – this will take a lot of time – but at each step there is no question of turning back – it is a way forward.
‘Vedas’ is mostly
1. singing hymns in praise of “God”
2. Justification of rituals and yagnas in pleasing weather-gods and other demi-god deities.
3. Singing praise of “chants”
4. Singing praise of fire and sacrifice.
(Note that Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh were born much afterwards. They were given “birth” by Zoroaster. The Vedic Aryans plagiarized Zoroaster’s Trinity. There are linguistic and archaeological evidences to support my claim. The other interesting Gods like Lakshmi and Ganesh were “born” much later – somewhere during the composition of Puranas)
I will just take a comic detour – The word “daeva” is an Iranian word for “liar”. In the Iranian language “Ahura Mazda” is (approximately) “highest wisdom”. The Iranians called themselves “ahuric” and called the Vedic Aryans “daevas”. The Vedic Aryans called their God-kings daevas ["Gods"] and the Iranian God-kings as “asuras” (derived from ahura.) ["demons"]
So, there is some divine comedy even in deepest tragedies.
The Bhakti movement was a “syncretic” movement – the genesis of the movement was first to compete with the growth of Buddhism. The Vedic Aryans were successful in near-elimination of Sraman movement from India. The later Bhakti movement was a movement of defense in face of crisis – The crisis was the advent of “powerful” and “aggressive” faith called Islam. It would have been impossible for Vedic Aryans to “convert” Islam population. The better strategy then was “synchreticism” – the later Bhakti saints tried to “merge” vedic Hinduism and Islam (something they were largely unsuccessful in doing in a philosophical or intellectual sense.) But, they had tremendous impact in promoting peace and good will. They experienced tremendous popularity and were liked by one and all.
Sikhism was the penultimate culmination of the Bhakti movement. Mahatma Gandhi was the ultimate culmination. People are wrong when they say Gandhi was “secular”. Gandhi was not “secular” – he was “synchretic”.
I am sorry to disappoint you. But, truth in it’s bare form is fat and ugly. That is why man is always ashamed and apologetic.
KK’s question
I am publishing them here without her permission, because I think they are interesting and intelligent and also innocent. Man is at his best when he is a child – innocent and curious. There is no smugness or pretense of “I know”. There are lot of things none of us know – it’s best to say “I don’t know. But I will try to make a plausible conjecture”
“what are your explanations Ontologically [which you admitted is tough]
but Ethics/Morality?
Why should anyone behave well, act appropriately,
is it inherent or is it conditioned or they do so because of a future
favour, better life?
If you do not believe in a God or after life you’d still be ‘good’ WHY?
who are we, where do we come from, where are we going”
In his Being and Nothingness, Sartre says “Man is condemned to be free. because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.”
Nietzsche was writing a book “Transvaluation – the reevaluation of all values”. This is when his health collapsed and he descended into madness. The task of redefining all values was too great even for great Nietzsche. Previously, Nietzsche had defined his Ubermensch – his Overman – his man who overcomes his “animal instinct” – his man who is more than a man – more than a man because man is condemned with a body he finds unbearable – his mind wants to reach out and touch the skies – his body is likely to perish and die. His Overman has close parallels with the concept of Nirvana (Because both want a different kind of eternity – Overman wants to live eternally. Nirvana wants to die forever.) But, Nietzsche’s observations were very close to those of Buddhism (Because Nietzsche scrupulously read Schopenhauer who was a strong Orientalist particularly a strong admirer of Buddhism). Although, Nietzsche’s observations were almost identical to those of Buddhism some of these conclusions were diametrically opposite.
Any human being has lot to gain by reading along Buddhism-Nietzsche axis. Speaking in Freudian terminology, Buddha chooses Thanatos, Overman chooses Eros.
You should read “The Unbearable lightness of being” and “Immortality” by Milan Kundera for their philosophical contents. There is a lightness associated with “finite linear existence” of human beings. We make “heavy” decisions in life. For what? We don’t have the chance to go back and correct our deepest errors. We don’t have a chance to relive. We can not or must not take our life too heavily because there is an implicit lightness associated with our being and existence. The life in the light of this lightness is unbearable.
Then, next comes Kirkegaard-Kafka-Camus axis. The absurdity of human existence. The Sisyphus in all of us. We are condemned to struggle – struggle for all – struggle for nothing. In Camus’s words,
“The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”
Then there is another recent very popular book called “The Selfish Gene” – Richard Dawkins. Potentially nihilistic conclusions. But, spot on as far as scientific accuracy is concerned.
You must read “Moral Minds” by Marc Hauser. There are many “thought experiments” presented in the book. These thought experiments will convince you that there is an innate moral sense in all of us. I find Hauser’s neuroscientific claims unconvincing though.
The question of what is moral? And how can one ensure morality or ethics in a society are open and hard questions.
I have my thoughts about moral and ethical questions in the light of “God is dead”. But, this is not the platform where I will express my opinions. Someday, I hope, I get to write down my ideas – hopefully in form of a book – hopefully people will read it – hopefully it will affect at least one soul in a positive manner and none in a negative manner.
KK’s question “And how does an athiest become who he is?”
My response: A child is born as an atheist. He is taken by his parents (often forcefully and against his wishes) – he is trained and conditioned to bow – to fold his hands and say “jai jai”. Your question should be – “How did you rediscover Atheism after having lost it when you were a child?” My answer is because I consider myself as a person who is unflinchingly loyal to truth.
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Okay I see. KK bombarding me with new set of questions!
Give me some time.
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K-3 if you keep talking like this I will become obsessive-compulsive about washing my hands!
ROFL
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I think I have answered your questions to the near-best of my ability. And above and beyond that Einstein has the following to say
“It is easier to disintegrate an atom than a prejudice”
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That was to KK
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Thanks K-3 for your inquisitive mind.
And thanks for the references you’ve made.
I will try to acquaint myself with them.:)
I will try again to realign our thoughts.
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@ The RA & K-3:
Read The quantum and the Lotus if you havn’t already. It is a dialogue between an astrophysicist and a buddhist monk about where quantum physics and buddhism meet and where they diverge.
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I hate the word “cater” in context of Epicurus.
Epicurus was an honorable man – a sensitive person – like Kapila, like Shramans, like Existentialists – these people are condemned to experience pain and pleasure in most extreme forms.
Hinduism is an accommodating faith. In the Puranas, they accommodated some of the Jain Tirthankars and Buddha as their “Gods” or as avatars of Vishnu. This is what I call tragedy – the Shramans say “There is no God.” The Vedic people say “Wait a second. You are God”. Divine comedy. Divine Tragedy.
I hope you overcome your fascination with mysticism. Mysticism is a mistress who looks beautiful in the dark with make up on her face. In broad day light, after her bath, when the make-up wears out – Mysticism looks ugly, abominable.
Punishment/Reward – Great questions – Read ‘Crime and Punishment’ -Dostoevsky , John Rawls and Nozick.
I will not attempt to convince you. It is futile. You have to gather the courage of convincing yourself.
Murli Manohar Joshi was a physics teacher – a fundamentalist Hindutva leader. partly responsible for Babri Masjid and violent aftermath.
For all the wrong things Ambedkar did in his life – he did too many right things – he stands in history as a tall figure for gathering the courage to burn Manusmriti. I am of Rajput lineage. I am upper caste. But, I overcome my caste, my upbringing and I will emphatically say that the Indian society should see to it that Dalits be treated well – all the historical wrongs done against them be accounted for. I can do anything for the cause of Dalits. They were wronged. They have all the right in the world to agitate and fight back.
You want to Support Tantrism? Then also support the orgies that go along with it – Khajuraho and Kamasutra. Here’s your chance. Take all or leave all.
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@264 : where is the bomb disposal squad?
@266 : Yes to both your questions! [ shall I get you some soap and water? ] but my God is not above and beyond. How can you forget Tat Tvam Asi?
I liked your comic detour, interestingly I met a ceratin Narendra Kumar here in DC who does Yagnas in his Bethesda home garage [ I wonder how no one complains ] who told me of a similar theory on Parsis/Hindus/Fire/Daevas etc. Fascinating.
Of course the backdrop of the Bhakti movement was the rise of Buddhism and later Islam but how does that explain Moksha or Kaivalya? [ In fact its also said that Sankara borrowed/copied heavily from Nagarjuna ]
I have read Kundera and Kafka and Camus. I enjoy each as a Literary work / Fictional account / Pleasuresome hobby nothing more [ and Raaaand too dabba! ] though Camus more than others made a definitive impact on me.
Innate Morality hmmmmmm not sure how that works with crime rates rising all the time….
Now why is it that to answer my simple queries on the practise of spirituality you take recourse to so many books/films/theories/axioms all WESTERN? Is it that ‘they’ know more than ‘us’ or could it be that they intellectualize everything to such an extent that there is no ‘heart’ anymore?
The left brain , right brain that one of your video links suggested?
So to be emotional is worse off than to be intellectual? [ thats the whole fight isn't it Indian Cinema versus Western Cinema, Heart vs Brain.....supposedly ]
Who decides that? Some Publisher?
No prejudice here, will most certainly read the books you suggested and write back,
did guffaw a lot at the Creationism/Nietzsche videos but the rest of them…..well send more LIGHTER stuff!
Just as you were born an atheist I was born a BELIEVER…….
INTERVAL
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@dabba
Thanks for the reference – quantum and lotus.
Someday I will try to read it.
The important difference between Buddhism-Existentialism and Socratic-ModernScience culture is that B-E tries to explore the broad questions in a consistent manner. S-M culture tries to explore small details in a coherent manner. In other words B-E work top-down and S-M work bottom-up.
I will definitely try to read q & l and see where they meet and differ.
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I was born an atheist – Every child is born as an atheist. My parents made me a theist. I revolted back and became an atheist.
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Lest it be said that she was prejudiced, I married a Sinhala Buddhist
and If I don’t get off RIGHT NOW,
I will no longer be married!!
Ciao
ps: Dabba no haven’t , will do
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Please don’t accuse me of being an Occidentalist.
But, I prefer not to do a biased reading of history and anthropology.
I must remind people that the whole Plato’s revolution of changing the world started with Pythagoras.
Pythagoras in his lifetime traveled a lot – even eastwards perhaps even to India.
You must look at works of Pythagoras and you will see the amount of similarity with Shraman traditions. It can hardly be a coincidence.
So perhaps, after all, Shramans were responsible for most things bright and beautiful. Who knows?
In any case, Indians became more and more decadent with rise of “mysticism” and lack of interest in “truth”, “science” and “technology”. That is why I once again repeat – modern India is a decadent India – There was an India of the times of Mauryans and Guptas – a heritage we can feel proud of.
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@K-3
It doesn’t matter where you come from – your race, religion, caste or nationality.
What is important is where you go – Truth, Beauty, Power, Passion, Ethics.
I don’t buy the brain-heart argument.
There are so few great literary figures India has produced compared to the number West has produced.
Ghalib touches my heart. So few Urdu poets. We must not let Urdu die. It is the most beautiful language ever!
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Good discussions. Augurs well for the idle mind at work.
*spots plagiarism in some of the comments*
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Anand G, do give us a clue, please.
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I rue at the state of Indian film criticism that could not only not detect the filmic influences of Noir in general but in specific “After Hours” and “Taxi Driver” by Scorsese; Fincher’s 90s grim trilogy of “Fight Club”, “Se7en” and “The Game”; “Apocalypse Now” by Francis Ford Coppola to just name a few, but also literary influences like “The Trial” by Kafka that also had lead character named K. But mostly I’m surprised no one caught on to the Jungian symbology of “descent into the hole through a door” pertaining to the exploration of subconcious, “water” being that of transition between different sates of conciousness. Oh, for fuck’s sake, Baba Bengali is the shadow-projection of K’s subconcious to which he descends to through a literal door. In obvious, this explains Baba’s ubiqutousness and the reason why the door could not be found later. The whole film is K’s night terror within a state of sleep paralysis. Also budding Jungians heed the symbology of one- way mirror.
I won’t be surprised if Kashyap doesn’t know about all this himself, it is the job of the artist to make visible the invisible and that of an intellectual (in this case a critic) to identify it and decipher it. Its just a shame and probably a reflection of Indian intellegentsia that Mr. Kahyap has to literally spill over reasons for his creative choice. But then again he probably just likes talking.
Having said all this, in Waking Life, filmmaker Steven Soderbergh relates an anecdote about Louis Malle telling Billy Wilder that his new film is like “a dream within a dream,” whereupon Wilder replies, “You’ve just lost two million bucks.”
So, did you Mr. Kashyap.
But then again, you also probably made one of the best Indian films ever.
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Prashin, bravo, well done comment. Extra points for bringing up Waking Life. Perfect.
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real one-pl would love to read the short story and your review.. waiting..
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Anand G.
I don’t know what plagiarism you are talking about.
Please be more specific.
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Thanks AK ji for taking interest. This inspires me to write. I will definitely write.
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RA.. would like to know your views on Dalit fightback and their right to do so. Is agitation by few dalit communities for reservation and politicization of it is what you deem fit for this fight back. Even Rajput community has now initiated an agitation to have their piece of cake. If you don’t want to express your views on this platform, you may refuse. No problems.
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prashin i wasn’t aware of the jungian symbology.. infact what i wanted to put across was K’s descent into Morality.. from his hightower to te slums to the hellhole..
Water was definitely used for seamless transit from one state of consciousness to the other.. i once saw a youtube video of a baby being born in the pool and it never left my mind, even the portal points like in the tub was symbolic of the way a child comes into a new world from the previous world and there is no going back..
there are a lot of interpretations and discussions which actually were not intended but do apply and make sense..
it’s like my learning has not ended and would never
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Real A i am following the discussion and i can’t participate because i really do not know how to.. have not read philosophy but i am now keen.. already picked up the book “god is not Great” which i was gifted but never bothered to read..
it’s fascinating ..what’s going on between you and KKK..
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ellooo..
Mr. Anurag,
Just read my comment i wrote yest ..ah!! it seems so horribly romantic..melodrama is something that turns up so quickly as soon as alchol drops start flowing in..anyways .. the main thing i wanted to ask was ..why was editing of no smoking was so bad!!! at lotta places ..it was just clearly visible..and why were these songs put in the background (esp..kash laga – seems very abrupt atleast i felt it) ..it seems like some one forcefully did it???
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nitin i loved the way the scenes were edited..as in why some scenes were there and not edited out, it was absolutely my choice. my editor wanted to throw out lots of things but i just got vain..
kash laga was not shot well, song had nothing to do with it.. we were not well equipped to shoot it well or i just didn’t know how to..
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Once there were two guys. One used to pray and praise god day and night. The other used to abuse and accuse the god day and night for every wrong that he saw around him. God appeared before the both and granted them with everything they wanted. The one who prayed was terribly upset with God on why he gave darshan to the other. God tried to placate him. God said “Both of you are my Bhakts. Whatever his reasons were, he too ranted my name day and night. How could I have not given him the darshan. He too deserved it the way you do”
So AK and SLB, never mind what your critics say. They atleast remember you and think about you.
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@Real A and KKK…your discussion has become so fascinating even for laymen non philosophers like us..go on..continue..differ on someone’s comment here – India is decadent today..IMO India has been decadent for the last 250 years and is only trying to get out of it for the last 40 years..precisely from the time the Naxalites showed up to defy Class oppressions..of course if one includes Bangladesh and Pakistan, then this timeline shall be stretched back to early 1900s..think about it..
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@Anurag..even you have been going back to the books coz of Real A and Kavita..me too..boss, accha dose de diye inhone!!
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Sorry !! i know its not related to this article at all but had an idea and so had to ejaculate in the wrong hole !!!
Farah is fast trying to grab the manmohan brand of cinema and i ( & the consultant in me) had a chiller of an idea…
Sequel to Amar/Akbar/Anthony.. “biren/billal/bishop”.. Apart from a to b.. the can also make it more (non)sensible taking up Akshay/Ranbeer/Abhishak trio to give it a “Sequel look”.. since it wont be possible to trace Jeevan’s Son Shahrukh can come in too. Story (if required) (and in a nut shell) could be The earlier trio meet and stay happily till they have kids.. and the entire family sets sail into the Bay of Bengal. only to hit by tsunami.. the family (except the three kids) make it.. the waves (of change in the indian cinema) bring biren to kolkatta while the foriegn location compulsion sweeps bilal to malaysia .. and the nri compulsion takes bishop to Australia.
While jeevan ( who has also produced) before death gives birth to Rahul .. who grows up to be a trans national smug.. The common identifaction item (CII) required to identify thier parental origins, a “string” of events where these three meet, Climax ( with an ovary for the next sequel) nai aa raha hain abhi dimag main !
Chal baad main more !!! and yes thanks anurag and his column for this wonderful experiance.. clean up this shit if u want to
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many points raised here.
what is filmmaking? who is it made for? why are you making it? and for whom?
i have been pondering over all of this, being a performer myself. It hits me because i am trying to be different, have had various enriching experiences and experienced performance on many levels myself…but then who witnessed it? Just I and a few like minded. So in the real world-modern india gives a fuck. It doesnt care to understand the role of cinema in society. It doesnt care to evaluate the term performer and performance. it would rather the performer be something else- gazzilion number of films with dance and rapes rather than a significant portrayal in one that never makes it to the theatres or many newspaper ads in underwear with chizeled abs or some strange screaming radio appearance.
its polarised and nothing else. You do this or get out of here. Go to the other camp. The only difference of course is that on the mediocrity-dressed-in-splendor side, there happens to be a support group. Each one supporting the other in their mediocrity so the spell doesnt break. Its a fucking dirty spell..
Look at the creative ones i have met, little known theatre activists who are so bloody unknown and when u look at their vision and get a glimpse of the creativity you cry. You cry because something alchemic has happened.and the world doesnt know, it doesnt care. India more than ever, is the cruelest it can be in understanding art or allowing evolving expression.
Understanding art.
yes, perhaps one is in a narcissitic shell. One loves to make things only one can decipher…and he has his private laugh. Oh please, give the slow ones a break. dont be so british.
Certainly a fine line aint it?
indian cinema tho is really in a miserable state. I am talking mainstream cinema and am worried about mainstream because i think its really dirty. Its dirty to make dumb films and say people love it. Its dirty to make people addicted to nonsense and propogate dumbness and mediocrity in lives and choices and its dirty when you are aware and are doing it for your own purposes. ITS PLAIN DIRTY!
choices and responsibility of a filmmaker is spoken about so often but what about the responsible audience?
Have we as a culture ever evaluated the need for cinema or any of the arts in our culture? why is it like mastrubation? Why the heck are u, bloody fools that you are- collegians and “film buffs” alike alongwith the “masses” (faceless, nameless terms, lacking identities) stand in queues to watch any film (any) when you have just walking a life and your small world of a society that needs fixing? And what is with all you people who want to look and be SRK or John Abraham?
those darned inputs, billboards, newspapers and power projections so fucking dirty
Our inputs are again mediocre that thats all we think/// dont give our minds the space to quieten down and from the quietitude allow a dynamic rising out…of creativity and choice…to allow a journey on screen to affect us to a further spot, a greater growth.
PROVOKE THEM, that is good!
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intended to provoke
http://youtube.com/watch?v=U3llbHLPAG4
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i know it is unrelated but what about nandigram?
i am disturbed and have wanted to blog on my site about it but somehow all this talk about art and creativity have brought me to those memories before i cheated. I corporatised my identity but that was after the roaming penniless theatre nomad that i was. Political.
Imagine a rape and a murder. Its happening right under ur nose, or even to u. Hard to imagine, given a that im male and why shud I bother, im an urban fucking Indian in a urban fucking place. Im safe right? let those rural fucks who dont confirm to economic progression of a nation bear the brunt. It could never happen to me.
Lovely bubble.
democracy…issues about a nation…discussion and dialog. who has the time? Who cares? spark a debAte thru the arts.
A bunch of theatre enthusiasts out on the weekend to sing and recite poetry. They want to express their solidarity to the cause. I watch some of my friends colleagues rant and rave in passion and crawl on the streets and cry. There’s a crowd, amused. And yes, these extremists who are passsionate about an artistic demonstration crawl…
and then there’s fact.
The government against the people.
news was out long time back and manmohan singh retorts today saying it was unfortunate or some shit like that..
what was the central government doing all this while? and the rest of the country? it doesnt matter. they have guns. they all have guns..so lets march with axes and spears…lets recreate scenes from the french revolution or the rebuilding of NY.
i dont like pain. Im scared.
It will hurt. maybe if i close my eyes it wont.
If i dont know who will stab me when, it wont.
I will die, soon, hopefully, once I am assaulted.
what am i doing?
I am dealing with one liners…lets shoot em, all of em…those politicians…those ones with balls in their mouths…each others…
ball mouthed governance.
urban cushy…why the fuck shud i bother?
let me dream instead of a great show on my radio channel for which i get accolades that never come…bloody shit.
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@Deepak Srinivasan
If I may say so on behalf of rest of passionforcinema, “There is no place for violence on this website.” Underline this sentence. Write it in capital letters. In Bold underlined capital italicized letters. “THERE IS NO PLACE FOR VIOLENCE ON THIS WEBSITE”
So I can not believe my eyes. And here’s what you say
“lets march with axes and spears
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Thanks Indraneel. Thanks AK.
I am glad.
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Thank you for making No Smoking. It is one of the most brilliant Indian films I have seen in recent times (which may not be saying much but wat the hell!).
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@Gajendra
It is unfortunate that Rajputs are asking for reservations. It is not justifiable.
How to fight for cause of Dalits – that is obviously an involved question and I don’t want to pretend to know the answer.
But, I do believe that a good, respectable society should have at the very least “equality of opportunity.”
There are (at the very least) 3 arguments one can make in favor of reservations:
1. Easy to implement
2. Accounts for a historical “social Darwinism” that has worked against Dalits.
3. Inspires confidence among the Dalits that the State is trying to improve their condition
There are (at the very least) 3 arguments one can make against reservations
1. “You can not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong”
2. A non-meritocratic rule in meritocratic institutions will result in less effective, less efficient institutions.
3. Make the Dalits laidback about earning their place.
The vote-bank politicization of this issue is unfortunate but inevitable. Where there is an issue of power there is politics. Where there is politics there is muck.
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@Real Abhishek,
Its interesting thing that someone has forwarded me link of this philosophical discussion going on here.
First I have not read this post and none of the comment except yours, so I dont know in which context this whole discussion has been started. Have selectively read only your comments.
As a layman in your field few very simple things come in my mind: (Please dont take it personal. nothing to offend you)
(1) Can man (humanbeing as such) ever can be atheist? Man has mind (thinking ability) and time has been a problem for him/her. He has sense of time in different manner than animals have. He can think more than animals mind can. so is it possible for a man to be atheist?
(2) you make society. Re dalit. Best solution is – if you are unmarried then marry a dalit girl- for this you will have to leave all attractions and will have to do it like a solid principled act. Your marriage with a dalit girl will certainly bring interesting situations before you in life and then real things will start.
That heat will produce something significant which you carry now in mind only. Revolution starts from self change. Your children will be product of this revolution.
Rest little later–
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Thanks RK for reading my comments.
Your message contains nothing offensive – so there is no reason for me to get offended.
Here’s my answer
1. I had read somewhere a quote. I don’t remember the author. But the quote goes something like this “If chairs had a God, I am sure it would have four legs.”
2. I don’t believe in the institution of marriage. But, that’s a personal choice.
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I brought up Dalit movement in context of Manu-Smriti. But, I am in favor of egalitarianism as a general principle of a respectable, decent society.
So, you could also add that I am a feminist.
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@Indraneel
The decadence of India began with fall of the Gupta empire – when Guptas were defeated by Huns. 500 A.D.
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@The Real Abhishek,
In future if I may use abbreviation TRA ?
Thanks for your reply, and Thank you very much for taking things in right perspectives.
But
(1) quote does not really satisfy. Its very theoretical. Please reply in simple way to a simple question- Is it possible for humanbeing to be 100% Atheist.
and I am not referring to the sayings of people which they say that they are atheist. To say I am theist or I am an atheist is simply a mind game. Like we say we are feminist or broad minded or we support democracy but we know from past experience of humanity that these are relative terms and often times come when same claimers follow just opposite path and live in contradiction.
I am asking is it possible to be an athesit for a humanbeing ? Does Nature allow this?
(2) Your belief in Egalitarianism – Does it deny or accept meritocracy?
You know so much in philosophy because you are student of the subject. When my arguments will be found weaker, will I still be found equal in your Kingdom? (kingdom of phiosophy)
(3) Manu Smriti is a book like any other book and it may represent thoughts of a single person who wrote it and it is not necessary that all people supported his thoughts. And before we make conclusions, languages take changes every few hundred or even in some years, so how we can draw some and same conclusions from a book written few thousand years before? and that too from a book written in Sanskrit because in that language a single word may have multiple number of meanings.
(4) Had found in some comment of yours that Dr Ambedkar did many wrongs, what are they or some of them? If you were in his place what and how you would have done that? and please keep in mind you are standing 50-60 years after his existence and you have seen from a distance his doings and you have read others thoughts that he did this or that and what went wrong. What as Ambedkar you will be doing in present circumstances?
(5) Tantra – you say either accept all or leave all. Its like either you are with me or against me. How it goes well with Budhist philosphy you have been advocating. Do you have any direct exposure to things you have mentioned in your comments? We can read Paradise lost and may be we can admire but we can understand it truely that day or night when we will have passed through same situations.
(6) I recall you mentioned we should make a choice (or was it preference) at certain stage in life- Pleasure or truth. Are they absolute words? Means your truth will be mine truth also or the pleasure you get, I will also get same pleasure from same things? Is there space for difference in these things and if yes then can anything whether its medical science or philosophy can be applied to any body? Will it affect everybody in same manner?
more later–
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Hi Anurag,
I just finished reading the book ‘Black Friday’ and am planning to purchase the DVD of the film. Hats off to Hussain Zaidi. He has brought pride to indian journalistic standards (I know this compliment is very late, but i read the book only a few days ago!)
Eagerly looking forward to how you have handled the film. I live in chennai, and have heard a lot about you and your films.
I have been following your posts. So I am beginning to know you, before I get to know your work! Interesting!
Keep going, anurag. And this I say even before I have seen your work. Sonething that i rarely do.
I can see that you are surrounded day in and day out by what ‘critics’ say. And there are a lot of critics here too at PFC.
sO, hopefully, to bring a smile to all of us here (especially to you) here is a small film that takes a ‘good natured’ (?) jab at art critics!
Its not long – just 4 minutes long. Hope it serves as a comic breather.
http://rsprasanna.blip.tv/file/344973/
Would love to hear from you about it. My email is attahed.
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@RK
#1
Is it possible for human beings to be atheists? – Yes.
The problem is that, this belief leads to a “crisis” of epic proportions.
The concept of God affords you a unifying structure that can form the fabric of life.
Disbelieving in God leads to loss of unity, loss of structure and loss of binding reasons to believe in any “moral axioms”.
No prophet can condescend and tell you – “Do this because God wants this. I know it because he speaks only to me.”
Death of God leads to anarchy in a socio-moral system. But, Death of God is inevitable in light of modern science because after a point any discerning mind will see the contradictions in religion and retort back “Please…Bullshit me not!”
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A semantic correction to one of my previous comments where I said “I do not believe in marriage. It’s a personal choice.”
I meant to say “Understanding the social construct of marriage in its most basic form – I choose to not marry. And while my observations about marriage may be of philosophical nature, my conclusions make sense only in the precise context of my life.”
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@RK
#2 There is a more general question hidden behind your question 2 which is perhaps one of the most fundamental questions about human social systems –
The question is:
When “personal freedom”/Power/Merit runs at the opposite end of “equality” – which one will you choose?
People who choose the far end of will form the right-wing. People who choose the far end of will form the left-wing. This is true about each and every human social system – politics, economics, law, religion, administrative, judicial – take any human social system and you can ask the same question left? right?
So let me say that inequality in personal freedom, power and merit are inevitable. But, it is important to ensure that there is at least some level of equality – at least on basic things like every human being should deserve right to live, right for food, clothing, shelter, education etc.
But, then there are more subtle questions like what about private property – You allow indiscriminate inequality in private property and there will be class struggle and discontent among huge masses. You do not allow private property at all – then there will be discontent among the more powerful and meritorious people.
To decide the “equilibrium point” on each and every issue is a “matter of keen judgment” – and for the time being I will prefer to postpone my judgment on each of those thousands of issues on which a left or a right perspective can be taken.
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@3 RK
You can say that about each and every text. Interpreting texts is a nontrivial business. The field in philosophy that explores “interpretation of texts” is called Hermeneutics.
You may choose to have your own interpretation of Manu Smriti which may completely differ from the mainstream and the academia.
But, bear one thing in mind – Caste continues to be relevant in India even today. There was a time when if a Shudra touched an upper caste or even if his shadow was cast upon an upper caste person – the upper caste person needed to shower himself in order to purify himself.
Shudras were not allowed to use public wells for sake of water.
Shudras were not allowed entry into temples.
While these things are changing slowly and slowly – Bihar continues to have Ranbir Sena.
In southern states of India, lower caste people are still discriminated against.
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@4 RK
There is a whole book on this matter.
Its called “Worshiping False Gods” – Arun Shourie
The principal thesis is that he was anti-Congress and hence pro-British – that he “bargained with the Devil” for a fair share of power.
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@5 RK
I said before that I have mixed views about Hinduism.
Now, suppose if I were in a debate competition and suppose I am supposed to argue from a “pro-Hinduism” point of view and suppose my intention of participation is to win the competition then here’s part of my strategy – I will not dare enter the territory or bring up the topic of Tantrism – It is so full of bullshit that it is not even worthy of typing another extra letter on my keyboard in its favor or against it.
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@ 6 RK
Good point. Truth is not absolute. Pleasure is also not absolute. But, in the vast terrain of thought and emotion, there is an area or a territory where “people with reasonably open minds” have “reasonable amount of agreement”. To answer your question more precisely one needs to write a book.
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@5 RK again.
Let me be very precise on this – I am not advocating Buddhism. I am not even advocating Existentialism.
All I am saying is that I agree with “observations” made by Buddhism and Existentialism – which are roughly the same observations. But, the conclusions that I derive from these observations are at times diametrically opposite to both Buddhism and Existentialism. These conclusions that I draw are in context of my life and experiences I have had which are unique. But, observations are more broad – more close to a “generalized truth”
Did you know that there exists a Hindu code of conduct or a subsystem within Hinduism which is called “Yamas” – which is almost identical to the Buddhist moral axioms. So one can argue that Hinduism accommodates almost the whole of Buddhism in its entirety. To believe in the whole of Hinduism is like to “believe in everything” OR to “believe in nothing” – depending on whether or not you have tolerance for contradictions.
Let me repeat once again – I am not endorsing any faith. Truth is all I endorse.
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Note to the administrator:
Comment no. 311 got an italicized font because of unintentional formatting – I was trying to number the points in Roman numbers. If you can please make the requisite corrections…
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True Abe:
Marriage intact, back again, after rummaging my book shelfs.
Being the bastard child of Macaulay myself, a lot was Lost in Translation but here are some books
from all over India ,which will lay to rest our preconceived assumptions
that Literature is the prerogative of the West.
Before I list them out I want to also assert that being as we are a very ‘mystical’ nation/geographical entity
having given birth to at LEAST 4 major religions of the world our seminal works are
in the form of scriptures, commentaries, mythologies, poetry etc Not necessarily fiction. [ which I will anyway list ]
Vedic Hymns as you mentioned were an awe inspired outpourings of a very keen and musical mind.
Though the ‘believers’ claim them to be Anaadi and Apaurusheya [ beginningless and not created by humans ]
you can differ on that score but if you were to chant them as I do every day you would understand that
Sahitya, Sangita and Kavya have all culminated to provide an ethereal experience.
It is the same with reciting the Torah or Quran maybe, I definitely think so,especially after hearing
some ’suras’ being recited in the Islamic Museum in Sharjah and in the film Le Grand Voyage.
Gurbani has the same effect on me. I actually play Gurbani instead of Suprabhatam in the mornings.
Should I ignore this Experience? This feeling of ’something transcendental’ ?
Though you brush aside Upanishads as being ‘mystical’ I would not equate their ‘inquiring’,
,’soul searching’, ‘introspective’ nature to mysticism. Infact it is the opposite and that is
why they are quoted ad nauseum by Osho[ Rajneesh] , Deepak Chopra, Sai Baba [ the living ]
and every new age preacher worth his/her salt.
In fact Sikhism takes ONLY from Upanishads claiming the rest to be un-scientific.
As also ALL the philosophical schools in India INCLUDING the heterodox Jaina/Baudha
are said to have their basis/premise in Upanishads at least according to Dr Ramnath Sharma’s
‘Essentials of Indian Philosophy ‘.
[ not for TRA, each Veda constitutes of : Samhita,Brahmana,Aranyika and Upanishads.
the former 3 the ritualistic/experiencing aspect and the latter the Questioning aspect, what
we recite as Vedic Hymns are from the Samhitas and Brahmanas of various Vedas. ]
Dalits: More power to the underprivileged and thank you for being a Feminist:)
but I cannot condone the theory that says that since Ghazni razed Somnath, we break down Babri
hence we have Bombay Blasts, therefore you will get Godhra…..where will this stop?
Essentially how long will you want to apologize for the sins committed by your forefathers?
Giving equal oppurtunity is good but how? ignoring talent and economic background?
Also what about the NEWLY disenfranchised?
White Males, South Indian Brahmins etc There might be some poor, good, talented people among them
is it not? How just is it that they should feel sorry for something they did NOT do?
So the circle completes itself and we have no end in sight?
As for Violence: maybe I am biased with a grandfather [ Dadaji ] who despite being in the Youth Congress
shot a Britisher and went to Jail and a father who fought two wars but being a Rajput you should understand
the difference between mindless killings and necessary action.It is all in the intention.
I would love for the world to be peaceful and with no boundaries. “IMAGINE!!”
The truth is that if you were living in Pathankot or Amritsar or Poonch or Silchar you might think differently
especially when the hitherto faceless enemy comes in the shape of a man to rape your sister or
murder your father, you might suddenly Realize your Hindu-ness and Brother-ness/ Son-ness and
strike out at a Pakistani Muslim Man whom you had nothing against previously…
On what basis will you be protecting your family?
Non-violence? Against a mob?
Just a few Qs that I ponder about too, nothing confrontational.
Tantrism: Oh yes! All for Orgies. And Free Sexual Expression. Nudism etc.
As long as there is group consent.
And no bestiality only because Animals [ as we know them ] cannot
speak and say ‘I do’.
As for marriage: it has become a fashion to NOT believe in it. Not just you…..
What would you/X do for sex? buy it? request it? force it?
don’t need it? move from relationship to relationship?
what if your woman gets pregnant?
what if she wants the child?
what if she wants security for the child with the father?
since various studies have shown that such an unit is
conducive for a child’s development, people stay together
and that ‘togetherness’ is called Marriage: sometimes!
Someone mentioned Nandigram [ Deepak?]
please visit www.aidindia.org
and look for various actions/petitions that are
being taken to fight injustice, not just in Nandigram, in a non-violent way!
The motto is SANGHURSH.SEWA.NIRMAN.
You could also read BAPU KUTI [ Aruna Roy ] to see the various positive
actions being taken in India that we are unaware of or
EVERYBODY LOVES A GOOD DROUGHT [ P Sainath ] to
see what ignoring the rural populace could do, as with our
new found love for Globalization.
Urdu: Ghalib: I have read Pavan K Verma’s book on Ghalib and watched the T V series
and thats all I know about him but yes, my love for Urdu [ esp Farsi ]
is well known though my capability in that language extends to
subscribing to the ebazm yahoogroup and attending Mushairas with gusto.
Why only Urdu? Why should we not protect Marwari for instance?
You being one [ I have the advantage of knowing your last name:) ]
Why not Telugu?
Except for English most languages are dying in India
because we prefer to learn Java or Oracle.
[ not as much Bengali or Tamizh because it is spoken with affection ]
Finally my book list in no particular order:
Ayoni and other stories by Volga [ translated from Telugu, Katha ]
Keelubommalu [ Puppets ] by G V Krishna Rao [ translated from Telugu, Macmillan ]
Saakshi/Vamsavriksha by Bhyrappa [ translated from Kannada, East West Press ]
Chikaveera Rajendra/Short Stories by Masti Venkatesa Iyengar
[ translated from Kannada ,Penguin and Katha classics ]
Samskara by U R Anantha Murthy [ translated from Kannada , Oxford Univ Press ie OUP ]
Singarevva by Chandrasekhar Kambar [ translated from Kannada, Katha ]
Tivolem by Victor Rangel Ribeiro [ set in Goa , Penguin ]
Danapani [ The Survivor ] by Gopinath Mohanty [ translated from Oriya, Macmillan ]
Harper Collins Book of Oriya Short Stories
Yajnaseni by Pratibha Ray [ translated from Oriya, Rupa ]
Yamini by Chudamani Raghavan [ translated from Tamizh, Macmillan ]
Vasaweswaram by Krithika [ translated from Tamizh, Macmillan ]
Vaasanthi and other stories [ translated from Tamizh, Indialog Publications ]
Lifting the Veil by Ismat Chugtai [ translated from Urdu , Pengun ]
Sunlight on a broken Column by Attia Hosain [ Penguin ]
Tamas by Bhisham Sahni [ translated from Hindi , Penguin ]
So many more, authors in Malayam, Assamese, Bengali, Marathi, Gujarati,
Rajasthani [?] , Punjabi that I do not mention.
The Vedas by Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati published by Bhavan’s Book Univ
Sri Madhvacharya/Sankara / Ramanuja published by Sri Ramakrishna Math
Founders of Philosophy, Cultural Leaders of India [ Publications Division ]
Introduction to Vedanta, understanding the fundamental problem by Swami Dayananda [ Vision Books ]
Light on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali by B K S Iyengar [ Harper Collins ]
Thought Power by Swami Sivananda [ Divine Life Society ]
Words of the Mother [ Aurobindo Ashram ]
Krishna the man and his philosophy by Osho [ Jaico ]
Autobiography of a Yogi by Swami Paramahansa Yogananda
K
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The Yamas are in the Upanishads. I never discounted the Upanishads. I have not mentioned the Upanishads up until this point.
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@KK
I don’t know anything about Sai baba or what he had to say. Rajneesh and Deepak Chopra are big-time bullshitters.
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KK
I am exhausted… not of ideas but of energy.
Talking about religion drains energy out of me. Its like walking in a mine field. I have to be careful at each step to not hurt anyone’s feelings by attacking their faith. (Just imagine the courage Nietzsche had for publishing a book with title “The AntiChrist”)
As far as religion is concerned, I started with Nietzsche, let me end with him.
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” – Nietzsche
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@197 5th para, last line:
” I am not fond of Upanishads or BrahmaSutras….due to their mystical nature…”
K
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While there may be a valid point when you accuse me (or the world ) or Eurocentrism, I still feel that India or East have a long way to go to match what the West have achieved.
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Time Please
Theek hai, will resume when you feel like it…
Pls don’t worry abt walking on a mine field not hurting people, I am not going to be hurt since my ideas are based on practise and if you will convince me to be an atheist I will.
Until then
It was great while it lasted!!!Will catch up on your suggestions.
Khuda Hafiz
K
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@KKK
Upanishads do have lot of “mystical content.”
They also have some interesting “true content”.
Now, sitting all day with a sieve in my brain is not exactly a fun process for me. I like to read texts which appeal to me at the rate of more than 8/10.
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Thus Spake Zarathustra!
Ameen.
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Anurag,
We need more and more people making good movies which has such a big impact on masses of a society, specially in India.
We need to set-up a platform for all selfless people, who want to give to the society, to make it easy for them to make movies like you, Sudhir Misra or Navdeep Singh make.
Like Gandhiji, Netaji or other great souls did, we have to make nurturing goodness in our souls FASHIONABLE.
We need to network, all selfless people.
Arunabh
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@ K-3 and RA:
Not trying to turn this into a menage-a trois, but:
Why must any language be saved? If it dies, it dies. New languages will replace the old. Maybe we will evolve to a point where we don’t speak but communicate through thoughts. Maybe the thoughts will be in Morse code or a basic binary system.
How much of this is ethnic pride? What about the the spiritual teachings of Haitian witch doctors, Native American healers and adivasi tribes?
Mindless killing and necessary killing – The difference you are trying to delineate between the army and perhaps a serial killer or lowlife, is dodgy at best. Highly subjective.
I know Krssna told arjun to do his duty as a kshatriya, but the people that kill without questioning or worse that question the killing and are convinced due to their poorly developed rhetorical skills are nothing to be proud of.
It is convenient to be against bestiality and pull out the consent card. While that applies to perhaps 95% of the cases, how does an autistic person or someone physically or mentally challenged communicate to the world that they want to have consensual sex with someone.
Perhaps only the person that is with them can read the thoughts in their eyes?
I have seen that look in the eyes of a dog. She died recently.
And lastly, Should I kill him, can I eat that steak, How about that carrot? and what about the bacteria I breathe in? If you can find me answers to this in all of your readings, I would like to hear.
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Sure Dabba
Join in. No problems.
But, note that I am only voicing my opinions. You can choose to disagree. This reminds me of one of the quotes I read in one of Kafka’s short stories
“At times, in my arrogance, I have more anxiety for the world than for myself.”
1.>Urdu and beauty
Why did I talk about Urdu in particular? Because my aesthetic judgment says that the poetic freedom that Urdu gives you … no other language that I know gives you that freedom. I obviously don’t know all languages there are to know. Of the ones I know Urdu enchants me, mesmerizes me with its pristine beauty. Once when Bertolucci described Eva Green’s beauty he said “She is so beautiful….It’s obscene!” I would say the same about Urdu. It’s so beautiful – it’s beauty is unbearable!
2.>Violence and solution.
I will start with analogies.
Do you know that Hilbert’s Tenth Problem has no algorithmic solution. Matiyasevich proved this in 70s. Godel’s incompleteness theorem, Continuum hypothesis, Axiom of Choice, Turing’s Halting Problem – these are precisely defined mathematical questions that have no solution. This is the tragedy that mathematicians of the past century have grown to accept … in the most matter-of-fact manner.
I will give you another analogy. What is the solution if a man contracts AIDS – maybe not because of sexual contact but because of blood transfer – hardly his fault. What sense can he make of his impending death – and his life in context of certain death. There is no solution. At least not in our age and times.
Now coming to the question of violence – What is the world’s best answer to Hitler? Gandhi was completely wrong in his essay “The Question of Jews”. You can not play a Gandhi to a Hitler. It just won’t work. So who can tell the world – What is the solution to Hitler? – There is perhaps no solution – no solution that we know – no “cure” that we know of. The only way Hitler can be dealt with is to create a society where birth of Hitler is an impossible event.
What can you do of people who get killed in army?
Here the question gets tricky. My answer to this is spatial-temporal moral relativism. Each man is a product of his times and his land. If tomorrow’s world is a utopian world they will view military violence of today as mindless and needless – just as most of the secular people view yesterday’s religious violence
The European conquest of Americas – particularly the Spanish inquisition is a dark chapter in human history. But, who will document the history of the vanquished? That is why Naipaul and Conrad are extremely relevant and important literary figures.
3.> Sex, Radical Egalitarianism, Morality and TECHNOLOGY.
For most people talking about sex is a taboo – as if it is something to feel ashamed of. I am not a prude – not even by a long shot. Today’s technology gives you condoms, test tube babies, sperm banks and birth control pills. Yesterday that technology was not available. The access to these technology changes the “effects of having sex”. Hence the access to this technology will slowly and slowly change the “ethical viewpoint” of with whom, why and how to have sex. But, in spite of the technology, man may not be able to overcome his own psychology of power and jealousy(loss of power) associated with sex and promiscuity.
The “radical egalitarianism” that you are hinting of smells of lofty ideals of Buddhism and other Shraman traditions like Jainism. This egalitarianism extends equality not only to all human beings but to all life forms. Reverence and ode to life itself.
Technology, once again plays an important role. Today drug companies are slowly and slowly developing the technology of producing biochemicals. Tomorrow, may be, they will be able to manufacture a carrot like substance that tastes smells and provides the same nutrients that carrot does. Today instead of getting your protein from meat you have the technology of soy milk, tofu, seitan, tempeh, quinoa. IF you want you can get all nutrition from vegetarian foods. But, if you miss the taste of non-vegetarian food then you can break the rule of “radical egalitarianism” and eat meat. You are condemned to be free! As far as the 4 billion bacteria that exist in each human intestine … I don’t think anyone can ever do anything about them!
As technology increases man has the potential of becoming Nietzsche’s Overman.
This theme is explored in 3 of my top favorite sci-fi movies
1. Abre los Ojos
2. The Fountain
3. Contact
Today’s view of gerontology is also changing. Thanks to radical brilliant thinkers like Aubrey de Grey. They propose that aging is a disease – just like heart disease or cancer – it should be fought like cancer.
Here’s a recent book that deals with these issues
http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthroughs-Lifetime/dp/0312367066
So coming to the roots of your question – My answer is that not all problems have a solution. And for some problems time is the only solution.
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@dabba
I don’t think I can comprehend sexual tension between a man and a beast. As liberal as I consider myself to be, to comprehend or empathize with someone with an urge for bestiality is way beyond me. And no. I am not being judgmental. I just do not understand.
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Do you think 2001: the space odyssey: was about Nietzsche’s overman. I personally loved Hitchcock’s “rope” my first experiance with the superman!!!
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@ Devil’s Advocate
Thanks for reminding me!
Of course! 2001: a space odyssey – what a beautiful film – it deals with evolution from ape to man to superman.
I haven’t seen Rope. But, you may be right about that.
Men always design new ways of creating hope.
When they realized that God is dead – they invented science fiction. But, fiction may become fact someday…
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Now that dabba has initiated a m
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Munnabhai: Ayee circuit, yeh log itna bade bade words use kar rele hain…Neitzhe, transhmushrain,utilrtran…mera toh dimag satag gaya re…
Circuit: Haan bhai…Jab main school mein padtha tha na…udhar bhi bacche impress karne ke liye aise hi bol bacchan karte the..
Munnabhai: Abbe tu school bhi gaya? Accha yeh bol yeh log kiske baarein mein baat karrele hain?
Circuit: Bhai mujhe lagrela hain ki yeh log discuss karre hain ki bhagwaan hain ya nahi….
Munnabhai(surprised): Bus? Itna choti baat ke liye itna bhaashan! Iski! Abbe…inko bol sprite peene ke liyee…nahi toh tapka daal! Main bolta hu jawaab…Bhagwaan hain to hain…nahi hain to nahi hain….magar life mein accha karne ka…mast jeene ka! Mast khaane ka!!
Circuit: Haan bhai…bilkul sahi bola…Yeh log bhi na….warning de deta hu….!!!
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@Travis Bickle
Welcome.
Let me say this: I understand that not every question has an answer and in fact that is exactly the point I was trying to make.
We can discuss relevant practical issues which affect vast majority of population OR we can discuss completely moot points like what if this O.0001% of world population [a hypothetical figure] which I hope you and Dabba are not a part of – get aroused by gorillas and baboons. Hehe. You see when you define mathematical constructs you get these weird counterexamples which you hardly ever encounter while doing real math – you are aware of these counterexamples – these weird comical pedagogical examples – The mathematician short on time, with lot of work should decide whether to ask questions like – “Oh what if the set is an empty set?” or just move on and use the mathematical definition for more “practical purposes.”
About using unconscious babies – this question is just scratching the surface of a “post-apocalypse” field that is a huge necessity in the century to follow – It is called Bioethics. Have you seen the great movie Gattaca. That is Bioethics. But still just the tip of the iceberg. The biological empowerment of human beings is going to raise too many ethical questions. You will hear the word Bioethics far more frequently as decades of your life go by. And there are many more questions. Much more ultrabizarre. The answers to those questions will be found in the collective consciousness of the society whose representatives will be (I hope) some well-trained experts.
Immortality is not a philosophical justification – It is an unfulfilled psychological aspiration – an aspiration, a hope which in reality may never be fulfilled. In fact, it runs in contradictions with physics namely through second law of thermodynamics which tells us that all thermodynamical systems should cool down and entropy must increase. The Universe according to Big Bang Theory started at an extremely low entropy state and it is continuously cooling and expanding – the entropy of our universe is all the time, on the rise – till finally everything cools down to its limit. The ultimate fate of the universe is obviously a central question in cosmology. But, the most plausible “scenario” (that I am aware of) is that the Universe will die a “Heat Death”. By this theory, the universe itself has finite life (although this finite time is in 10 raised to multiple powers of 10 years). So, hope for infinite life in a universe which suffers from the “disease” of second law of thermodynamics – is a futile hope.
See, it’s possible for me to paint a utopian picture and a dystopian picture.
Human beings need hope to live – a true hope. And I really hope that this true hope exists – that we are not after all – all of us – Sisyphus!
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@ Machchar
Haha. LOL Good take.
I agree. Sometimes Khao piyo aish karo is a good way out. But, not always. Particularly, not when people are killing each other in name of nation, religion, race.
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Anurag
Man how do you interpret the story like this. Bloody hell. I feel paralyzed wd my brains and it shakes me vigorously. What an explaination.
Seems working in fucking corporate has made me numb and it gets really impossible to let my brain tissues work.
I agrre financially its not viable to make such stories and films, but Bro well done.. I have seen the change in my perspectives abt No Smoking wd time and above all the from the discussion board. Audience needs to grow.. Me too a part of that.. will like to be on learning curve like this..
Gaurav
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Circuit: Bhai…Yeh Asli Abhishek bolta hain ki log bhagwaan ke naam pe mara mari kar rahe hain…
Munnabhai: Abbe Circuit…Hum Tees maar log bhashan dene sey yeh sab kuch bandh hojayega kya?
Circuit: Toh bhai iss problem ka solution kya hain?
Munnabhai: Circuit…Jab main chinky ke baap ke college mein padtha tha..bahut kuch seekha…Abhi dekh apna body hain…usmein itna parts hain…hain na?
Circuit: Haan bhai hain…
Munnabhai: Toh apna body ko kuch na kuch beemar atee hee rahega…kabhi ek part, kabhi doosra part…
Circuit: Sahi bola bhai…Poora body ko kaat dalte hain…Sab beemari bandh!
Munnabhai: Abbe sun…Vaise hee yeh duniya mein kuch na kuch beemari hoti rahti hain…yeh abhi nahi shuru hua…bahut pehle se hain…ismein bhagwaan ka koi lena dena nahi…sab kuch apne faide ke liye log karrele hain…
Circuit: Toh solution kya hain bhai?
Munnabhai: Pehle picturey nahi hoti thee…abhi hain..solid powerful hain yeh cheez circuit…picturey banao…logo ke dimag ko change karo…idhar bhaashan likhne sey kuch nahi hoga…logo ko samajh mein bhi nahi ayenga…
Circuit: Mast bola bhai…Main yeh bolta hu yeh tees maar logo ko….
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@Machchar
LOL. Hirani could take your help in his sequels!
Cinema is a good medium for educating people.
But, at this point this blog has got 4545 views – so I am sure people are reading this, possibly enjoying it.
If a person of my personality will ever say anything to people he will say it in Sudhir Mishra style rather than Hirani style.
Humor will still be there and lightness will be there – but I can not work with oversimplification – although I admire people who can…
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I would have thought the bestiality question would be right up your alley
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@ The Sacch Mein Asli Abhishek:
Out of the 4545 views, I am sure 4500 views are there for reading Anurag’s article! ;) Not philosophy! I hate it when people try to masturbate their hi-funda knowledge not for the sake of people, but for themselves. If you really want to say anything to people and just not make a statement about you being the next Nietzsche, you will tell them in their language, not necessarily over simplify it…I apologize, these are my views and I don’t apologize for not being ashamed and telling that my chutiya brain could not make sense of a single word u tried to say…Maybe my IQ levels are not capable of such stuff…
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@Travis Bickle & Machchar
I am just trying to open up minds – to stir up minds to invigorate them to search for truth – sincerely, efficiently for themselves. In process, I am trying to be generous and share ideas of people that influenced me. Nietzsche is one the strong influences. But, he is invoked most commonly because a lot of the discussion was regarding faith and about overcoming it. If we were to have a discussion about mathematics, I would obviously not invoke Nietzsche.
Anurag seemed to like the discussion. If you guys don’t then maybe I will just stop here. Anyway, things are about to get really busy for me.
@Machchar. Easy Dude Easy. Don’t use words like “masturbate” with me. (At the risk of sounding immodest)Just in case you missed out on my reach in articulating myself – I could use much stronger language myself with much greater effect. So, take it easy.
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Real Abhishek, I appreciate you sharing your ideas…I was expecting a consistent pov from you for the sake of discussion. otherwise it will turn into a wank fest but interesting nonetheless.
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Asli Abhishek, it’s a public forum and you can continue writing whatever you want till the authors and admins don’t mind it. I am just a reader. As for the words, as a commoner, these are the only words I know and you are welcome to teach us and articulate much stronger language. No one stopping you mate! Go ahead! Destroy and humble us! but one thing boss…light leneka….jyada tension nahi honeka….
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The RA…Ref your comment # 329;
I have expressed my take on one of your views here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBePBmMXE1I
Will get back soon to take the discussion on #302 forward.
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@Travis Bickle
Please point out the inconsistencies. I don’t mind criticism as long as it is justifiable and precise.
Dude, I do mathematics. Consistency bothers me more than it bothers most people.
@Machchar
The message given through Hazaaron Khwaishein Aisi can not be given by Munna and Circuit. It is different syntax altogether. If you don’t like HKA don’t say that it is intellectual bullshit because it doesn’t appeal to the aam-janta. If you think Godard is intellectual bullshit then what can anyone do about it? There are people who are die-hard fans of Godard (like myself). Do you really want to go Taran Adarsh way – “gyaan baazi nahi chalegi”?
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Gajendra Ji
Excellent job!
Very realistic!
Very good use of background music!
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I was expecting a philosophical argument for achieving immortality or beating ageing from the pov of Nietzsche
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#348 for The Real Abhishek
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The RA… Thanks
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Hi there, anyone need any mosquitos swatted..? RlAb, you area good thinker and writer. Dont let ‘flies on the wall’ bother you. They all eventually get swatted!
Anyway, good points on everything
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Asli Abhishek…You said “Particularly, not when people are killing each other in name of nation, religion, race.”
I know the difference between the way HKA speaks and a Munnabhai movie speaks…Appreciate both. But if you are so concerned about people killing each other in the name of nation, religion and race….Let me quote you again…
“I am just trying to open up minds – to stir up minds to invigorate them to search for truth – sincerely, efficiently for themselves”
The people who can understand your language are not the kind your message is intended for anyway…They are not your target audience. If someone can understand the heavy philosophy you are quoting, I am sure they will not kill and loot in the name of religion.
And the people that you want to open up their minds, who kill and loot for religion, will never understand your language and will not get the message? So what’s the point? All this looks like a “I know maths better and I know big words better that I can cut you into pieces with my knowledge” contest. Okay bhai…you arrived! We all bow to you! ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^
But frankly…take a break…
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@The Real Abhishek, I can see a wee bit of ego in your statements and comments. If this is what knowledge brings to someone, then I am better of without it.
Macchhar, u are the “jaan” of pfc and I loved it when you cut these guys down to size with your hilarious take on Munnabhai & Circuit! I see more of these people trying to show off than trying to have a genuine discussion! I am your fan for life!!
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“yeh to hona hi tha” It was just a matter of time before the so called one way conversation was going to get derailed by nay sayers. Although, they do have valid points regarding: this “discussion” being done for the sake of an ego boost. For as Machar mentioned quite wisely indeed, the affect is lost on the target audience all together. Those that have read this including myself, have found it interesting but thought provoking not so much. For me atleast its like realizing what would have become of me had I steered into the path of philosophy, I would be arguing for the sake of arguing and giving long baited lectures to clueless people, who would just stare and applaud- kya knowledge hai. I for one don’t need a Pedagogical discertation. But who am I to silence anyone’s voice. peace
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PPs on PFC
Spent whole of last nite reading
CANDIDE [ Voltaire ], the Barnes and Noble version for lay people, highly reccomend to those who haven’t had the pleasure.
In the 4th chapter I suddenly felt No Smoking is our own Candide, had some similarilities with it……need to explore how/why….
This is Voltaire’s tragi-comic/ironical/satirical take against Leibniz’s Philosophy of ‘Optimism’ , ‘Cause-Effect’, ‘Everything happens for the Best’ Theory,
felt that TRA was writing about me
Macchar you’ll love it. Right up your alley,
Bahuth Funny hai Baap.
Dabba/Travis Bickle : more the merrier ! Join in.
Dialogue is necessary even if it sometimes seems like it is going nowhere, to quote from the book:
Chapter 20 last line
“They disputed for 15 days in a row and at the end of that time they were just as far advanced as when they began, however they had the satisfaction of talking, of communicating their ideas and of comforting each other.”
Now on to GBShaw’s take on Voltaire in CANDIDA…..apparently even better.
Feministic prespective.
K, K too, and three.
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hey I remember reading Candide in highschool, and from my little knowledge all I remember was it was a great satire on philosophy, philosophers and religion. It had that cyclic theme of reptition and was really pesimestic. What else would you expect from people who are stranded in a lost city? its not like they can watch movies- faltu bakwas say kam chalana parta hai!!!
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…but real abhishek was doing the discussion on another forum and it is on anurag’s insistence he carried on here…plus he was not posting his views on his own..there was a concerted discussion n he replied to them..whether it looked to you or it was pretentious,boring or verbose or egoistic is another matter..
..n for people who think that intellectuals (ya the marx quoting ones )don’t loot,discriminate on basis of religion or sanctify riots…murli manohar joshi is a physics professor..mukhtar ansari quotes pablo neruda..ravana was for god’s sake more learned than rama..
if u don’t understand what some-body is speaking..by what right are u qualified to say that he is pretending n by what right u assume the authority to tell sb to shut up..
similar things happened wid NO SMOKING…
…many reviewers didn’t get the movie n they said…it was bizzarre,we couldn’t understand it,it was not engaging enough , the director should have simplified it..
..n some reviewers said since they did not get the movie..anurag is an egg-headed,pretentious fellow who made the movie while smoking something…n ya they wrote it in pretty humorous tone like machhar has written..
… i have seen pretty good discussions sabotaged by thes munnabhai n circuit lingo” i m so cool” types…more than those taken over by pretentious types…even if the real abhishek is pretending ( or may be not since i have not fully understood him) at least i find something of value in his philosophical expositions..but i absolutely hate it when people who don’t understand something sabotage the creator for being pretentious..
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Thanks Anupam, flyswatter, K3
@K3 – I agree Voltaire is always great. Master of satire.
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@Machchar
I will speak in your lingo.
Ek machchar aadmi ko hijra bana deta hain.
Yeh dhua kyon aa raha hain? Kuch jal raha hain kya?
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Yes! Machchar has arrived! He is our new superman!
He is going to save people from “intellectual bullshit” by biting them and disturbing their concentration.
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@anupam.kr.singh: Are you comparing No Smoking with this heavy philosophical discussion that gives more importance to “effect” than affect? Buddy…chal…jaake soja…
The Real Abhishek! hahahaha!Concentration? You sound like one of those school jerks! Please don’t…You were better off with your philosophy….carry on! As for speaking in my lingo? I doubt it you ever can…Are you such weaklings that you guys let one machchar come and make hijras out of you and break your concentration? :D
I thought your philosophy was much stronger? Bhailog, mera do comment nahi sun sake….aur tum log kya badi badi baate kar rahe hain…Philosophy teaches you patience…It gives you power to see through any “pettiness”…Looks like you guys are too far away…stop reading and talking philosophy and start practicing it.
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Machchar you want me to be a school jerk. OK.
I can be whatever you want me to be.
So here we go:
Machchar mere paas moti kitaben bhi hain. Aur bahut sara mortein bhi hain.
Bol. Kaise marna chahega?
Here is Brick Top for you. From the movie ‘Snatch’.
“Do you know what “nemesis” means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an ‘orrible cunt… me. “
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Asli Abhishek….Jaa…beta thak gaya hoga…sab impress hogaye…jaake tu bhi soja…chal…
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@Machchar
Sab impress ho gaye to tu kyon depress ho raha hain?
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You see sir, I can talk English, I can walk English, I can laugh English because English is a very funny language.
Bhairon becomes Baron and Baron becomes Bhairon because their minds are very narrow. In the year nineteen hundred and twenty nine sir, when India was playing against Australia in Melbourne city, Vijay Merchant and Vijay Hazare they were at the crease and Vijay Merchant told Vijay Hazare,
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Machchar first of all you have an unfortunate name.
On top of that, you have an unfortunate species.
You existence depends on sucking people’s blood.
Why talk so much?
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Machaaaaaar…. Aaau kya udhar?
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:d/ yeah are we playing a new game now.. giving quotes from our favourite movies lol.. or is it simply to display tounge twisters… Now that this has become a bilateral issue, it seems we can all sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy!!!
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@Devils Advocate: :D haha! I guess yeh abhishek satiya gaya hain! haath doke peeche padh gaya!
Abhishek…Aaja…bhai…Aaja…aake maar…Kitaab ya Mortien…teri marzi..Pehle hee teri bhaashan sunke aadha margaya hu…abhi aa poora maar de…
:D
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Kya zamaana aaya hain!
Aaj kal machchar insaan pe peeche padne ka ilzaam lagata hain!
If you want we can have a truce. Else… Frankly the only thing I enjoy more than mathematics, philosophy and poetry is endless sarcastic humor. I have too much appetite for sarcasm – to and from.
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- let it go guys… this is going nowhere… I’m sending each of you the other person’s email and you can carry on your personal discussion there.
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@Oz
I didn’t start it man.
I don’t want blood on my hands.
I will call it a truce.
I don’t want nobody’s email id.
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@263: The Real Abhishek on 20th November: I will be busy next few days as I will be traveling.
@342: The Real Abhishek on 21st November: If you guys don
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Oz peace!!! :D
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@Machchar
I am going to LA day after tomorrow. After that NY then Montreal. Then Europe maybe. Then India. Hopefully it will work out. So no more of me. Happy?
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Peace
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NY, LA, MONTREAL …
shit yaar ,… and i have not moved out of NAVI MUMBAI !!! maximum i go is to wadala :(
;)
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@ KKK
Since you seem to have followed Indian Philosophy so deeply , i will raise this question :
Sankhya preaches the duality of nature which is validdated by krishna in gita and Shankaracharya teaches non duality , how come shankaracharya is worshipped as a hindu guru when he contradits krishna (Hindu GOD) on such a fundamental issue: Like how can you disagree with GOD of ur faith ???
Meanwhile would like to read more about “kautilya” if you have any links plz share it (please spare me the railway platform version of Chanakya niti :D)
@ Real Abhishek….. Please Read (if u havn’t already books by Dr. Brian Weiss 1: Only love is real) and then let me know what do u have to say about the birth/ rebirth belief prevalent in Indian Philosophy :
i will invite u guys to my blog(memoofthepast.blogspot.com) where i post philosophycal questions and plzz forward me yours would love to read it.
Meanwhile i would want to know your take on the philosphy of the book Sidhartha, that “knowledge can be transferred, wisdom cannot be taught it can only be experienced”
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abhishek (real 1 ) aur KKK : blog id de do yaar apna in case you post philosophy there
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@George – You have a lifetime. Today is the first day of the rest of your life. You will get your chances.
>-
@Nikhil – Thanks for reading. I used to blog. My blog is currently set to “hidden”. When I reopen it, I will let you know. Cheers
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How unfortunate!
http://in.rediff.com/news/2007/nov/23nasreen.htm
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wow! looks like I missed a really interesting discussion here. great posts junta…I got so engrossed reading all this! I am supposed to be studying for exams and here I am reading philosophy and cinema on PFC :D man! this place is addictive.
Just a few comments on some of the things I read above (I did not read the whole thing so sorry if I have misinterpreted something because of not knowing the context fully)
On dalits and reservations….I wonder why people don’t make noises about rich junta getting into good colleges only because they got money. how is that any different?
And I am not sure if the reservations really affect the efficiency on an institute that bad. For one they do not choose people arbitrarily, they do have exams. Only think is that the cut-off for the backward classes is less than that in general category. I have friend in IIT who made it through the quota but she is definitely good enough to have gotten into any NIT, so, I guess its not as bad as we think it is.
@Kavita
You can point out one poor brahmin and ask what about him? This has to do with a whole community of people who were/are being refused opportunity. You see, they have no support system. Noone to look up to. In fact, they find it even more difficult to find their place in the new globalized (or rapidly getting there) world. Forget about the new opportunities, they are loosing the existing jobs as well!
By the way here is an interesting article:
http://www.india-seminar.com/2004/533/533%20p.%20sainath.htm
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@Abhishek
really enjoyed your posts. I have not read any of the BIG books of philosophy but I am familiar with names and ideas through my dad’s lectures :D, Sophie’s world and Will Durant’s story of philosophy. I liked whatever bit I read by Nietzsche in last vacation. Hope to continue reading.
By the way, you said:
) and we know about it because if they have something good they want the whole world to know.
“There are so few great literary figures India has produced compared to the number West has produced.”
how do you define greatness?
Just because they were good writers and most of them wrote in a language accessible to a greater number of people? When you talk of west as a whole you must take into account that they have a very common history (West Europe and North America). The countries in Europe saw major cultural, philosophical changes together. They were drawn into world wars together. So the literature that came out from there appeals to a much larger section of people. We, of course, read it because we are a third world country and we read what they read (I am looking at this in in a positive way, we get good stuff to read
Are our writers being discredited on grounds that they wrote about things that appeal only to a smaller group of people perhaps partly because of our political (non-involvement) position and diplomatic stature in past? Because they wrote more about their own people and their stories? How does that make them any less talented. As far as I see, It only makes them less famous (on a world level).
There were other things you wrote that I wanted to question but too sleepy now! will get back to that later.
Keep quoting Nietzsche
PS: you do mathematics? what kind? Going by the people you mentioned above something on the algebraic side.
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My two cents:
Quote:
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my thots r reflected truly by Anand G on TRA…btw can I humbly know what does “The Real” mean Mr. TRA (couldn’t resist) :d
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@Neeraja
Good points on reservations and Dalits.
I am glad you want to read more philosophy. It’s definitely very invigorating and cathartic. There is at least some merit in your claim about Eurocentrism. Gandhi pioneered nonviolent civil disobedience and did not get a Nobel Peace Prize. Churchill was a racist (he made some rather racist comments about Indians) and got a Nobel Prize in literature partly for his fiery nationalistic speeches. Unfair?
Sure.
But, there are people who broke new grounds in literature in the West – people like Kafka, Joyce, Dostoevsky. There are very few Indians who were really revolutionary in that sense IMHO. And then Salman Rushdie … we drove him out of the country. Now, Tasleema Nasreen faces similar fate.
I am studying different aspects of algebraic, geometric and differential topology. Topology is a field in modern geometry – a 20th century product.
I still have a long way to go. But, I am quite passionate about the whole thing. I will do my near-best.
@Anand G
I can say this in no uncertain terms – If you agree with Travis you can not agree with me. While there were others (like Triple K) who criticized fairly – the tone of criticism that came from Travis and Machchar really bothered me. I was friendly with Machchar for a small time – laughed when he made Munna-Circuit jokes. I spewed venom because he started using words like “masturbate”. I won the war of words with him. But, it was more like a Pyrrhic victory. I don’t like confrontations. My apologies to Machchar for being too hard on him.
When RK pointed out certain facts, I also told him “Your message contains nothing offensive – so there is no reason for me to get offended.” I am always an intense conversationalist. So, emotional intensity will always be there. But, I bear no malice. I am aware that I have a lot of room for improvement as far as proper debating technique is concerned. Like everyone else even I am learning… I don’t mind (so much) people who are stubborn. But, I hate people who are bullies or who make unfair accusations or even criticism for the sake of criticism (like the whole bestiality thing. You are telling me that someone is really concerned about bestiality and speciesism? Seriously?).
Good point about putting up the discussion or multiple discussions on different topics on iView.
I won’t be able to contribute so much since I will be traveling. But, I will get back whenever I can.
You are right about continuity jerks. I can see why people who want to read nothing but comments about Anurag’s original post would find my comments as a distraction, a rant or even a “hijack” attempt.
Thanks for the praise. I feel secure and comfortable in my skin and hence I am thick skinned about praise. Unfair slander makes me edgy – because usually it comes from the kind of people I don’t mind hating.
Why did I quote Nietzsche so often?
1.There was a discussion about faith and overcoming it and finding a new ethical system in the light of rising atheism. Nietzsche is obviously the man behind the movement.
2. Nietzsche’s basic style of writing was flamboyant and APHORISTIC. If people like Sartre and Wittgenstein didn’t have aphoristic style – that is not really my fault.
3. I have uninhibited respect for him and his values.
Maybe you could give me some benefit of doubt and believe that I actually have a decent vocabulary (considering that I aspire to write large-scale in future) and not necessarily using a thesaurus for show-off.
I am not arrogant – I am just intense – It has nothing to do with one-upmanship. I don’t have an inflated opinion about myself. But, I am OK with who I am.
Double negatives is something the African Americans use sometimes when they actually mean a single negative. I love their lingo and sometimes use it for comical effect.
This conversation should not be continued over here anymore. I will get in touch with Oz and become a regular PFC contributor – as long as there aren’t any regular PFC contributors who are against the idea of me being here.
Thanks for posting this. I think it was useful and sensible.
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@maruramu
“The Real” – it’s just a silly joke. Nothing profound.
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hi anurag,
movies like these need repeated watching. unless you say everything very clearly (atleast clear enough for them to remember after they watched the movie, and not like having clues as a background song), people won’t pay that much attention. and more over, with ticket pricing being so high in india, people can’t afford to watch movies that many times.
and the only way people can comprehend such movies would be, renting it when it comes out on a DVD, which allows people to rewind and watch the part which they didn’t quite understand the first time.
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HEY ANURAG SIR… HOW ARE U??
I SAW NO SMOKING IN NEW YORK… TRUST ME I JUS LOVE IT… BUT POOR INDIAN AUDIENCE THEY NEED TO GROW UP… NEWAYS THIS IS MA EMAIL ID SO MAIL ME SOMETHING SO THT ICAN ALSO GET UR EMAIL ID..
[edited - please do not post email IDs online.]
BYE TC
(ABHISHEK PATHAK)
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@maruramu
Read comment 388.
ROFL.
Do you now see my point?:d
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abhishek good to see you.. how is the film school.. all ok ..you watching any films.. will mail you shortly
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hey anurag ,
its great to see the debate following your film , im sure it’ll get the cult following it desreves.
i have a few questions regarding NO SMOKING , i would like to add that i have been convincing people to see it and in the process i have seen it four times.
i also convinced a nepali chokra to see it and he loved it , maybe cause he is from foreign lands.
anyways
1. why does “k” not get surprised or intrigued by the situation he is placed in with baba bengali initially.
baba knows his entire history and his life is taped as well , why does he not look fucked.
im sure i would be fucked but “k” looks at it as an everyday thing .
2. also who is that girl in the maruti car who tell’s “k” not to light up , and then lands herself in the hospital with chicken pox?
3. when the cigar is being launched in india , are those men who force “k” to smoke -in glasses baba bengali’s men , because i noticed , that there is a camera flash in the background of the club and you notice another man wearing dark glasses ?
anyways answer these if you want , though i am sure you have got fried answering answering answering , a post mortem of your film……
cheers
wongkarwai
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Dear Anurag,
Am a film student abt to graduate from Sydney. Would be great to have ur email id so tht i can be in touch with u… can u drop me a line at
nikmahajan@gmail.com
would appreciate!
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hi anurag sir,
mail me ..got a production house wanting to get in touch with u…
regards
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Hi All,
I have been reading this blog for quite some days and I just love all the people around here and esp the one who is the reason for all you guys around here.
The one who provokes and initiates all the thought process.
I really liked his movies, BF and NS. I have yet to watch Paanch which I am quite sure I will love.
I had many confusions while watching the movie and many were so open to interpretation. I think one still is remaining, and I would like all of your views on it.
Its about the Bulletin guy who is in so many scenes and yet is not clear who is he. He gives K change when he was travelling to Progshayala for the first time. He was there when K’s brother commited suicide. He was with Abbas when K was being interrogated by police and called Abbas to know if he can come and help. He was in the police Interrogation room in the end of the movie, just as K had been in the middle of the movie.
Please put your thoughts on this. And Does somebody knows the significance of OnE Ruppee, It baffles me
Thanks,
Ankur
I love you Anurag for being the way you are, or the way I think you are.
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My last post on this saga
Real Abhishek in #386 you have certainly exposed yourself as a dishonest egomaniac
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real 1 : plz reply to comment 378 in case u haven’t started ur “teerth yatra” in US
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@Travis Bickle
Oh Yeah? while I do mental masturbation you can go fuck your beasts.
So what kind of ape do you prefer baboon or gorilla?
Oh. So you prefer the male ones. Not being judgmental here. Oh for fuck’s sake don’t tell me you prefer the young pre-puberty male chimps.
Mercy! I care much more for beasts from this point onwards.
So now to your question.
And what is your claim to originality Mr.Pickle?
Using the inconsistency that I myself pointed out against me?
As far as the inconsistency of immortality is concerned let me get back to big bang and second law of thermodynamics. Let me first say that Big Bang is the central and most mainstream theory.
But, it is not the only theory. Modern Physics is changing fast.
There is a new theory called “Cyclic Universe” Theory.
http://www.amazon.com/Endless-Universe-Beyond-Big-Bang/dp/0385509642
This theory is being seen in favorable light by leading physicists of the day.
Man has always found out a way to beat the nature.
Maybe not infinite life but life extension is a certain possibility.
http://www.lef.org/
That is why I insisted on seeing Abre los Ojos & The Fountain.
Nanotechnology if it gets developed can be used for biological purposes to counter problems like free radical damage and telomere shortening.
And why are you supporting Chrisitianity? I bet you are a pious person. Possibly a Christian yourself.
Use facts dude. Wake up.
Check out the demographics of USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
And see for yourself what is one the rise and what is on the decline.
If there are clerics like you who are going to oppose me at PFC then I would rather not post at all. That is why I told K3 that the stuff I was posting was of inflammatory nature and I feel like walking on a mine field.
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@Nikhil
Sorry man. I missed out on your post.
I haven’t read anything written by Weiss.
On the face of it I disagree.
Siddhartha by Herman Hesse is a very lucid and beautiful book.
If you want to read good interpretations of Indian Philosophy (Upanishads and Buddhism) you should turn to Schopenhauer. His writings are achingly beautiful.
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TRA,
Some brilliant comments. Just wondering how much of service this could do for a lot of people.
I have few questions (ostensibly an elementary one):
Does the knowledge accumulated from the books have anything much to add to self-realization? In other words, I’m a rationalist, I don’t see God and religion something not worth my time, energy and mind, it defies logic, and reason. Going beyond elementary scientific knowledge (which is more than enough to refute irrationality or ’suppressed’ rationality) is a matter of interest. But should one necceasarily know faith/religion/superstition to such details? No offense intended, I personally believe books on philosophy or existentialism is a waste of time if I’m clear in my conscience, and reason. Collosal waste in fact.
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@TK
Parts of Upanishads, Buddhism, Atheism, Modern Philosophy particularly existentialism is for sensitive people – people like Buddha, Nietzsche, Kafka and Dostoevsky – people who have been through extreme agony in their lifetime. A rationalist / logical positivist or a person who has a flat plateau of emotions may not benefit at all from any kind of philosophy. So for someone of your personality it may be a big waste of time. I agree.
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@TRA, thanks for enlightening me…
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@maruramu
Enlightenment is a strong word. I am glad if I was of any help.
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Hey Real Asshole,
The word bestiality seem to turn you into an ape obsessed whore in heat.
I suggest you stop posting about philosophy because you will turn people off of it when they realise what’s the point of learning all this if at the end of the day a stanford educated wannabe shithead philosopher can easily lose control and see the world from the perspective of a retarded whore.
At least you are consistent with what i figured out about you.
I don’t understand why you bring up irrelevant shit like cyclic universe when i wanted to know how you you would philosophically justify immortality or life extention.
I am an athiest and the reason i brought up christian majority is to explore the possibility of it being acheived in the real world as part of a govt policy unlike you paying lip service to practical concerns of majority of people just to hide your obvious attraction to apes.
Regarding US demographics , you never know with the growth rate of hispanics, christian moral majority is still relevant.
And don’t give so much self importance to yourself…you can go fuck yourself and from this site for all i care… You’ll be doing a service to a lot of disillusioned people who might think it is quiet becoming of someone in search of meaning to behave like a fucking grown up baby.
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@TRA
I’m learning….
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Hey Anuraag
I have a small question for you,I am not a movie expert, i dont have a lot knowledge about movie making but i am a common man who gets pleasure watching realstic movies not yashraj comercial but class movie like BF, i love to get pain and to cry watching movies like yours and Vishal’s. But i have a small suggestion for you , i like no smoking a lot, i think the lady singing in a male voice is something i never seen before, but could you please make a movie which common people like me can understand better, when i watched NS first i hated it becoz i was trying to find out what you are trying to say but i was unable to ,but when i read your views here I thought it is a classic , its becoz i never understood what you tried to say, so next time make a movie where you can explain your thing in a better way, there are lot of people who go to watch Anurag kashyap’s movie(not crap of arrogant SRK),please think about them little bit , your thinking is great but just make it easy for common people to understand, dont think you tried to show something which is not acceptable, its just we dont understand it, i hope i will get a reply with a positive mindset, and hey i will always watch anurag kashyap’s movie first day first show like i watched BF and NS.
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I usually like to just read and hate commenting. But I cannot resist here. I did go through each and every comment on this article and really enjoyed the dialogue between The Real Abhishek and Macchhar….
But what made me laugh my guts out was The Real Abhishek proclaiming that he was a winner of the war of words with Machchar! Abhishek, you really are a loser. Just read all the comments again and you will know how Machhar made a fool out of you! I am sure he does not see this as some kind of great victory!
Machchar has this thing about putting people in their place for a long time on PFC! Don’t mess with him!
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@Travis Bickle
Cool down.
From my perspective, there are two kind of ethical systems:
1. sin-redemption (most religions)
2. pain-pleasure (Buddhism, Existentialism)
Sin and redemption make sense when you have an “absolute” moral system. The absoluteness is guaranteed by presence of a God or a Prophet.
In my humble opinion, sin and redemption are by themselves not tangible phenomena.
Pain and Pleasure: These are absolutely tangible phenomena. Pleasure is dopamine. Feeling good is serotonin. Feeling peaceful is GABA. Pain is stimulation of nociceptors.
Buddhists found pain to be too unbearable and pleasure to be too transient. Hence, Nirvana is similar to Freudian Thanatos – which is the ultimate desire to die peacefully living a lifestyle that gives minimum pain. Nirvana from a Freudian perspective is essentially the will to die or negative nihilism. Schopenhauer’s pessimistic view of life also falls under the same criterion.
There are at least 3 ways Existentialists can go:
1. The Buddhist way
2. The Camus way where existence is considered absurd
3. The Overman way which finds meaning and purpose in life despite pain. Also called positive nihilism – the will to life exhibited by the will to power. “The will to power” is a much maligned term. It has to be understood with lot of care because it was published after Nietzsche died as excerpts of his unfinished work.
“Death of God” leads to a decentralized purpose of life. There is no central purpose of life anymore – no single way to go. Instead a thousand small little purposes are born. Some existentialists may find it is WORTH LIVING and worth fighting for more and more life – this is how the justification for immortality or life extension comes – the lust for life in spite of the pain.
The pain-pleasure axis which is a tangible way to look at life gives you a more “real” way to look at things. The defense for immortality or life extension will come from existentialists who are essentially optimists.
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@ravik
I am sorry.
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And hey The Real Loser! We can’t imagine you writing here regularly on PFC! OZ Please SAVE ussss from this moron! Get LOST!!
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@ravik
No one (other than me) chooses whether I write or don’t. I voluntarily choose to not write.
Peace?
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Desire is dopamine Pleasure is endorphine
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Endorphin is body’s natural pain killer. Something you would feel after you have a good run.
Dopamine is associated with pleasure activies like e.g. sex.
Moot point. Agreed?
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Many of the pleasure giving narcotics are dopamine reuptake inhibitors.
Anhedonia results due to problems in dopamine pathways.
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Cigarette addiction is in fact related to dopamine craving. Now we come back to ‘No smoking’. Finally this relates to AK’s original post.
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dopamine gives the craving ..the desire, endorphine gives the pleasure which is a pain killer
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@Travis.
From what I understand, I amicably disagree with you on how you interpret dopamine and endorphin. But this is not the central point.
The point was about my philosophical justification for immortality – or at least creating a plausible framework for it.
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@Travis.
Is it a truce now?
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@Travis
OK. From my side it is truce. Let peace be.
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@The Real Abhishek (TRA) (309),
Sorry for delay. Could see your futrher comments today only.
—
God is dead – Nietzsche and you support this hypothesis.
Should I assume you are pointing out this whole priest and common men set up where a priest says he keeps dialogues with God or in other words you are pointing towards Organised religion set up?
I asked on the basis of individual. You said you were born an Atheist and your parents made you theist and you again became atheist. So you are atheist in the sense of orginised religion or in toto?
What Nietzsche said can be described in many ways. He said God is dead. We can ask was GOd ever born? Where is the question of God being dead? Or if he pointed out towards God in the human form (as you pointed out that four legged chair) then we can take his statement as a DIALOGUE created by an intelligent mind.
Form of god can be different in different era and sometimes it can be non denial attitude towards God.
But it wont be irrelevant first to know what do you mean by “God” ? What “God” word meant/means to you?
Is it possible for a businessman like Bill Gates, or leaders or any dreamer in any field to be an atheist?
Do you think about your future sometimes? What you will become in future? Do you divide time in to the past, present and future?
–contd—
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@TRA (310)
Re: Marriage,
Is it right that You are saying that you dont believe in the institution of marriage based on the social customs. and your observations have provoked you to take this conclusion/choice?
But you will go in to relationships. You may be involved in physical relationships with opposite gender and perhaps will not mind to join reproduction system?
Or you will deny this whole physical relationship aspect and SEX will neither be used for pleasure (not even through self pleasure activities) nor for reproduction kind of duties society has promoted among people?
—
What about other kind of relationships between people? Have you been in friendship with others on personal basis? Have you fallen in to the situation where two individuals fight and inspite of their relationship with each other they dont talk to each other in vical terms but think about each other all the time?
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Circuit: Bhai…Pehle yeh log yeh discuss kar rahe ki log bhagwaan ke naam pe mara mari kar rahe hain…Ab khud yeh log mara mari karrele hain ki mera discussion sahi ya tera!!
Munnabhai: Haan circuit! Main bola na….Yeh mara mari toh chalta rahega…tu amrika mein pad ya amravati mein! koi farak nahi padega! Ab dekh yeh dakkan….bolta hain ki amrika mein koi satara ford…
Circuit: Bhai…Stanford…
Munnabhai: Haan wahich….Yeh udhar pad raha hain bhagwaan aur duniya ke barien mein…ab dekh…koi kuch bol diya aur khud jagadne laga!!
Circuit: Haan Bhai…Aur yeh kya solution nikalega joh aslich duniya mein jagadre hain aur maar dhaar ke maamle mein….
Munnabhai: Ab kya Circuit…jab logo ko paisa jyada hojata hain…charbi badh jaati hain…woh log “philosophy” padthe hain aur baaki logo ko “tuch praani” samajthe hain…bade ghar ke nikamme hain yeh…
Circuit: Bilkul sahi bola bhai…Inki bol bachchan sey duniya ka ek paise ka fayda nahi…
Munnabhai: Chal chod usko….apun jaake ek quarter maartein hain…aur bhagwaan ke baarein mein discuss karte hain…
Circuit! haha! Yeh accha idea hain bhai!
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@TRA (311,312,313),
When being a citizen of a particular country, you have to follow in other country certain strange rules then what do you feel? When as a foreigner you cant have certain fundamental rights which original citizens of that country enjoy then do you feel that you are also like a Shudra in that foreign country though here temples, and other places or right to take water from the well may be represented by other things but overall discrimination flows there. With all your conscious level do you indent to play an Ambedkar here or you are just happy whatever luxury you get by following silent mode because you are not revolutionary?
Naom Chamosky can follow same freedom of expression in China or Russia as he is enjoying in USA?
Arun Shorie- He wrote that book in a certain period and soon after the book he was nominated for upper house by right wing politicians. Has he written any book on role of right wing politicians during freedom struggle. Were they not against congress and often joined hands with devils to have fair share of power? or Communists of that era? Whole of his role during Rajiv Gandhi- VP Singh’s political battle is clear before us. Can we completely trust his journalistic mentallity to look upon a matter?
Here I feel to express that quotations from books, references of the authors etc are very theoretical pattern and they give clue of classroom deabte where students have to show their theoretical knowledge given in books. If mind is grown up by reading a book and keeps agrrement with the facts given in the book as they fall in same line as his own observation has also been then its right otherwise there is less use of theoretical debates.
A. Shorie’s book is fine but within the brackets only and it should be seen within that context only. It does not cover Ambedkar and his role in history as a whole.
–
Ranbeer Sena – USA’s presence in Iraq is Ranbeer Sena. Before that USA and USSR in Afganistan both parties showed Ranbeer Sena attitude.
–
You are not going to change people’s idea about marriage and you are (perhaps) happy that you have seen through all the game of marriage. You are firm there that you are realized in that area and hence happy also somewhere. You dont bother much what others think about marriage. They may go on spoiling their lives under the illusion of marriage.
When you dont discriminate among people belonging to cast, colour,nationality then it also should be sufficient. While marriage question has more impact on humanity as it affects almost every humanbeing but even then this question will not be bothering you much but cast etc will bother you much.
Anything in its bad form is bad but do we understand classification in its basic form?
You say that you are Rajput but thats you think because you were born in a Rajput caste. Given definition of warrior class, whether you belong to that class or not is not proved yet.
IITs, MITs,IIMs and even your Institution will be having wells from where others cant have water. a certain class of people are allowed to enjoy these places. Presently these classifications are very good as long as everything is for betterment of humanity but if few dictators occupy the selection committees and start deciding which kind of particular people should be given entry in these places then things will start going on wrong path.
There is a lot of discrimination going on in present era also. Perhaps Dr Ambedkar would have stood against many of these discriminations inspite of all his compromises in many other areas but do we see any Ambedkar presently doing this?
Its very easy to judge the past because many accounts are clear before us and things simply reduce in to a certain format when we look in to the past while in present time, things remain mysterious. So given those mysterious nature of present time can you say you would have done better than an Ambedkar or a Gandhi. Or if they were alive then is it possible they could have remain silent as many are? There were many more intelligent (knowledgeable) people than these gentlemen but they did not / could not start any struggle.
Theory and practise remain two different areas.
Shiv Khera writes You can win but he cant win an election for a ward membership leave alone MLA or MP election.
People have different roles. A Gandhi may not have a solution for Hitler because Hitler has solution in doing suicide.
But if A Gandhi was before Hitler than he could have given different resistence and hence different solution to problem named Hitler because Gandhi is not name of inertia. Changes come like this only. If Britishers were not here then Gandhi’s rebellious spirit might have revolted against attrocious and repressive nature of kings and queens. Gandhi’s whole existence is like that. If Bhagat Singh was not fighting against British regime than he was going to fight against local dictators. Things happen this way only. When question is there then solution also come.
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@422…machhar though i don’t agree wid ur some-times too sarcastic pov’s n tiffs wid ppl n …but by God ki kasam above comment was hillarious n truly a gem…:d
p.s…we use the term “kaagzi log”..in the heartland…u ought to write a ranter’s guide to “fool”osphy..munna,circuit ishtyle..
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@machhar …
Dude ….I dont want to comment on the fight of comments..but man ..your circuit and munnabhai take is too hilarious ..damn good man ….Mr. Hirani should seriously think of you for his next venture …..
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the post that started it all:
fight between KM n AK..
KM’s review of haasil..
http://www.mid-day.com/columns/khalid_mohammed/2003/may/53213.htm
Ak’s rejoinder..
http://www.mid-day.com/smd/play/2003/may/53847.htm
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Machharbhai,keep writing in these Munna-Circuit dialogues regularly.
We need doses of humour on PFC.Sometimes chats get too serious here:d/
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here is a wonderful book n movie’s blog…
http://jaiarjun.blogspot.com/
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SOMEONE LOCK THIS THREAD..TOO MUCH PHILOSOPHY RUINS CINEMATIC VIEWS.
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It is very frustrating when you realize that most people don’t give a damn about the things you are so passionately interested in. It is frustrating to see people making fun of things that you have spent time thinking about. It makes you rude.
@Abhishek
Inspite of all that I said above, I do think you sound arrogant at times.
By the way, I do mathematics too. Plan and hope to do Algebraic Geometry. (So, you see I was very happy when you mentioned Grothendieck’s name in your post :D )
@Machchar
I have read your earlier posts. As someone said, you are the jaan of PFC. You are funny but try to stick to facts…if you call a horse a donkey and then make fun of the donkey, its not funny anymore.
@RK
A foreigner not having certain fundamental rights in a country is so much different from Shudras or Dalits not having certain rights in their own country.
Though I am a supporter of equality and uniformity of rights throughout the world without barriers of nationalities etc., we still have a long way to go to achieve that.
Theory and practise may seem like different areas but they can never be disjoint. And philosophy is not only about theorizing and writing volumes.
Didn’t Sartre sit down with on a strike with students outside the French parliament at the age of 70?!
I know people (political and social activists) who fight (non-violently) and at the same time try to build theories on how to do this on a larger level, interpreting and taking into account all the changes happening in the world. It is one of the most difficult things to do.
People like Gandhi are not born like that, they are made by the society and times. Perhaps, the situation is not that bad as yet!
A crest comes only after a trough…but are we into a trough already or are we still moving down the slope?
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@Neeraja,
Foreigner = not tourist
Foreigner = living in different country but not citizen by birth. There is not much difference between these discriminations and being Shudras or lower cast. Say a person belonging to lower cast or Dalit background like Mr Ram Vilas Paswan or Ms Mayawati can become CM or cabinet minister in India and can enjoy any status which not countless upper cast can enjoy. There is no restriction for any dalit to become PM or President of India in temple of democracy but in more rich and powerful country USA, a Deepak Chopra may be meditation Guru of celebrities or many powerful politicians but he cant be allowed to drink water from the well of White House. Arnold Schwaznegger can be popular film star but he cant be President of USA.
Colour of passport makes a lot of difference in the behaviour of authorities.
Equality lies no where.
I am reminded here some years ago a senator of American congress (cant recall his name) had made a big noise that in India minorities were not safe and restrictions should be imposed on India. he was referring mainly to Sikh people.
9/11 happened and whole world saw how Sikhs were forced to bear misbehave and forced violence imposed on them by native people. Dont know where that senator was during that time. he might have promoted in all these years.
Its just mind’s choice in what category you see the things.
No where equaliy lies- not a single country can boast of equality among people. Every society has classes.
—
Gandhi is not made by society. Thats a misconception that society can make a person. Seed should be inside the person’s existence else out of nothing something cant be created. Law of theromadynamics works here. This is different that being human, one has many many possibilities and when starts working in an area then possibilities of that area start unforlding for him.
This is true that like any other thing theory and practise also are interdependent and continuous friction make both of them bright.
Sartre and Semon had advocated “live in” and they were engaged in both the practises. they were developing theories and they were following practise also to propgate their theory but its very interesting to read their accounts which they revealed during last phase of their career.
;)
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@Anurag Kasyap
@KJ
May be i am fool….
May be Anurag Kasyap do not want to answer…..
May be Anurag Kasyap do not know answer…..
But my qestions still flowing……
where are u KJ…thursday gone…….waiting for reply…..
According to Baba Bangali:
Smoke 1st ->Result->Brother will be in gas chamber.
Smoke 2nd -> Result->Fingers will be cut.
Smoke 3rd -> Result->Wife will be killed.
Smoke 4th -> Result-> Brother if alive/ Mother
Smoke 5th -> Result->Aatma will leave your body.
John:
Tried first at Car with lighter but not smoked-> Result->Bum blast, hearing aids
Smoke 1st at somewhere in Ice land->Result-> Brother in gas chamber.
Smoke 2nd forcefully tried by friend Alex (John do not smoke, but Baba Bangali assumed he smoked 2nd time)-> Result-> Wife killed.(John
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@RK
I agree with you on most points. We are living in a very unequal world. I pity on the ignorance of those who looks up to the US as the land of freedom and equality. We know its all a farce. Europe is full of racists.
But that’s not my point. I am only saying that I do not feel it’s right to compare problems of people to go over to foreign lands to earn more money (the emphasis is on more) and then cry over the fact that they do not have same rights as the citizens of that country (though I do believe that they should have the same rights) to the people (dalits) who have been denied certain rights in their own country. You see, they have nowhere to go unlike the ones sitting in the US who do have their own country to turn back to. My point is not non-existence of equality, I was just not happy with the analogy you made.
Also, as I said before do not point out one poor brahmin or one rich/successful dalit, we are talking about a whole community here and we all know that their presence in the modern middle class of India is negligible.
And I still believe that nobody is born great (call me prejudiced?). ’society’ was perhaps a wrong choice of word there. What I meant is that its mostly the things that you see around you, force you to think about certain things. It certainly takes much more than just ’society’ to stand up, think, fight and lead. But you can only fight for a cause when you are aware of its existence and that’s where society comes in.
@sourav
You think philosophy has nothing to do with art or more specifically cinema?
In any case, I think we should resume talking about movies.
Hey Anurag,
may be you should make a (abstract) film on globalization issues. would be interesting :D
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“Jab main choti bacchi thi bahuth sharaarat karti thi..tab bhi mayray school kay undar…..Taan taan taan taa taan….Jahan ‘Ladki’ ho vahan Machchar!”
Pickhur keejiye this:
5th class.
Students adore their iconoclastic teacher.
Who is of course on the brink of being kicked out
of school becoz of his very style of teaching.
Bright Proud TRA, sitting in frent banch only.
Wannabe bright kid and ‘girls are better’ K-3.
Other bright stars who support either TRA OR K-3 NSingh/TB/Dabba/Anupam/Anand/FS/Neeraja all vying to be ‘teacher’s pet’.
Wise RK who does not take sides.
and….Machchar: never answers roll call, never in class [ either sent out or not interested ], sometimes condescends to sit in the last bench, anything to view the girls better.
Machachar is supported whole heartedly
by the Devil’s Advocate for obvious reasons.
Now when Teacher starts Kavita ki klass Machchar udaas, how to participate in the raas without talking bakwaas?
[Kyunki then as in now girls seem to like baiz with brainz.No wonder they are so silly!]
Cannot believe I never left 5th grade!!!
Machchar is scenario pay ek scene likh na please?
Accha meanwhile enjoy this,Chennai one is Superb!
http://youtube.com/user/IndianCricketLeague
k-3
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lol, I have always wanted to be a back bencher, pur kya kareh, my eye sight wouldnt allow me to… but I honestly loved the analogy. and can I switch sides because despite the inevitable arrogance that comes with being the teacher, and teachers pet, I did a few quires regarding all these philosophical terms being thrown around.
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@Devils Advocate: Bhai…Nothing wrong in being a back bencher…In fact, some of the most successful people in life are back benchers! They are intelligent too!
@Kavita: hahahahahaha!! Well, how the hell did you know I used to be a back bencher? and you are BANG ON TARGET when you said Machchar is always sent out of class! LOL! Well, as for the girls…the view from the back was bad!! Teachers were much better view ;) What you wrote is hilarious!
@Neeraja: Well, I am humbled but I am just one more regular visitor here….You will find better “jaans” here. Well…It was never my intention to make fun of anyone. One thing I hate to the core is someone who is loaded with the “Iam-the-best” ego shit! I will do my best to kick such fuckers in their balls…
@427-Arunprakash: Thanks buddy…Humor always helps….By the way, too much of Munna-Circuit will start boring people…Anything too much is bad…just like this philosophy discussion….
Anupam & Anand: Thanks.
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@Neeraja
You are kind as your are wise. Algebraic Geometry is a very tough field to do research in. You will have to work really hard. SGA-EGA is of course the Bible in the field. But, reaching there is infinite toil – not just labor for love but also love for labor. But, if you have that patience the trip might be worth it!
@PFC
The person I admire the most at PFC is Sudhir Mishra. The only reason I bothered writing a single comment here is Sudhir Mishra. I feel very indebted to him.
And this is one of things he had to say:
http://www.indiafm.com/features/2007/10/29/3197/index.html
“Anurag should be careful of admirers…You have to take care of your enemies but you also have to take care of your admirers, the fanatics.”
You want to bully me because you are a loyal old-timer and I am an outsider? And some of these so called old-timers at PFC who are accusing me of being arrogant, what is their claim to fame at PFC? Singing paeans to AK? Comparing him to Howard Roark? Bowing to him for every comment he makes? Frustrated with their completely dull and boring non-creative Bourgeois IT life – Vomiting their frustration by taking meaningless pot-shots.
Holding a mirror to people is not something I will refrain from.
PFC needs to search its soul or else a very noble effort may go in vain.
Yesterday I was at this bar. I read a quote there
“Whenever you do a good deed, don’t forget to collect the receipt. Just in case the Heaven turns out to be the IRS.” Well fuck the Heavens. Let’s start that with earth. The earth is IRS.
And while you accuse me of super-arrogance, I know that almost all of you would be copy pasting my comments in a word file.
Do I not know people’s psychology too well? Is that what bothers and smothers you? Do I not know my own psychology too well? And while you accuse me of arrogance do you even know me? I am temperamental – extremely short tempered – and I admit my weaknesses. And if I say something about myself in the most matter-of-fact manner it is painted as arrogance. How convenient! As convenient as me accusing my accusers of envy without even knowing them. I wear no haughtiness on my shoulder – I have contempt for the word haughtiness. If I show generosity by sharing information, I am showing off. If I get angry at someone’s stupidity it is arrogance. Is my knowledge so nightmarish for you that you have to torment me for sharing it? Or is it that your own ressentiment too unbearable for you?
Have you read the very short story “Prometheus” based on the character from Greek mythology Prometheus. You know what Kafka is trying to say? The story is incomplete. There is one possibility he wants the user to contemplate by himself. And that possibility is that Prometheus stole fire from the Gods and gave it to men. When he saw men abusing fire and blaming Prometheus for having given it to them in the first place – in his deep regret Prometheus turned into a rock. It is a thankless world. Prometheus was the first one to know that.
And how do I know that this is what Kafka is trying to say? Because I know Kafka’s psychology too well. Just the way I know Freud or Nietzsche too well. We are all haunted and tormented souls. It is our destiny to suffer.
And I will complete my testimony by one final poem:
So when this loose behavior I throw off
And pay the debt I never promised,
By how much better than my word I am,
By so much shall I falsify men’s hopes,
And like bright metal on a sullen ground,
My reformation, glitt’ring o’er my fault,
Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes
Than that which hath no foil to set it off.
I’ll so offend, to make offense a skill,
Redeeming time when men think least I will.
from Henry IV – Shakespeare
I will not bother to write again at PFC unless AK himself tells me to do so. That is all I have to say. If he doesn’t it will still be OK.
So this might actually be my last comment here.
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@425-Anand Kadam: By the way…I did get a job in Hirani’s Munnabhai movie. The money was not good and I refused that work….haha! Well…at that time I could not afford to work for less… ;)
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Dear Abhishek
It is a pity if you stop expressing yourself just because someone calls you ‘arrogant’, and btw what is wrong in being proud or arrogant if it is justified ?
I know I am not Anurag K or Sudhir M to make you change your mind but who knows!!!!
Kal kisnay dekha nai……
Khuda khair karay
K
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Kavita, Even I don’t like it If I am one of the reasons anyone leaving this forum. I still don’t understand why does he need to give this send off letter anyway….As The Real Abhishek claims…
“I won the war of words with him. But, it was more like a Pyrrhic victory. I don
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Re: comment 432 by Dileep
hey dileep,
The whole movie is a dream from the experiences he had before. The only part thats “real” is the the end part when he wakes up and goes for washing his face, and sees that his two fingers were cut.
His wife still lying beside him indicates that she’s not dead. That means he smoked twice already, and got his fingers cut.
The whole aatma thing in the movie is “made-up” by john’s imagination in his dream. Thats because Baba Bengali talks with John about aatma when he actually first met him.
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@ The Real Abhishek, #437
I am compelled to write this since I love unique voices to prevail in this platform. A lot of us have been better off for your conversations and stand-offs with other commentators here. And they include the lot that you have been disdainful of (non-creative Bourgeois IT life variety).
Machchar is indeed an old time visitor to PFC and contributes in his own way to this forum. I, for one, would like to see the two of you co-exist here.
I am no AK so I might not make an impact on you. But there would be many more opportunities to argue and debate on this forum and you will find a lot many here who you might like engaging with (many more than ones that you might not). So here’s a plea, stay on here and post a comment or two when you are on your break. I am sure, even Machchar would appreciate that.
The last thing I want is for you to leave PFC with hard feelings. It ain’t the purpose at all.
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TO:”you know who you are”
Tum to naraz ho gaya. Aisa mut karna, we will all be left without any direction sensei. I kid, I kid. But how befitting was the title of this forum, IN DEFENCE OF THE
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@Abhishek
yeah I know! and considering that I am neither very patient nor very hard working :D lets hope that I manage to stay and learn geometry for at least 10 more years. i don’ ask for more, I don’t want more.
“Do I not know people
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“arr. sorry for typos”- THE REAL ABHISHEK
1.has should be has.
2. but its ruffel your feathers.
——————-
wait a min this isn’t about whose grammar is better now is it? btw I do like your writing style at the very lest, Mr.TRA
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(Kabir)
[In English] {Speak such words, sans ego’s ploy
Body remains composed, giving the listener joy}
(Source: Link)
(That is my contribution to this philosophy discussion!)
:-D
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Neeraja, first of all…I wonder whether you understand what you yourself are trying to say….In fact, you do in one of your comment agree about the arrogance of The Asli Abhishek…And in the next comment, you tell Abhishek not to bother about “people” accusing him of arrogance and make it sound as if the whole frigging world is against him and you his solid supporter.
First of all…Whether you enjoyed his comments or not…This is not the platform for that topic. By Hijacking someone else’s article, you totally tried to prove how “learned” you are instead of actually trying to have a honest discussion.
In the very beginning, this guy started with this I am the best attitude….
“Dude ravptor – I have studied philosophy and studied it at Stanford University – A mecca for philosophy students- if we ever have a face to face debate, I will rip you apart – with words only.”
And if you say Anurag did not mind about this topic here…I am sure no decent person would ever say “HEY, THIS IS MY ARTICLE AND DON’T DISCUSS OTHER STUFF”! – We must have enough brains to understand that….
If you want to discuss philosophy, I am sure there are other websites which give you the platform…Or still…If the site management does not mind such topics, start your own frigging thread and discuss there. But…But…even if you do so there…it is the right of every person to post his/her comments/views. Have the balls/guts to face it! And as far as the language…if you haven’t noticed…PFC was never your prude indiafm or such similar forum….People with weak and “Oh I am a girl-so-I-should-act-coy” attitudes should think twice….
All your philosophy crashed into pieces due to one “short life spanned” Machchar as you say….
I am not a word churning hypocrite…I just say things as I feel….And I don’t feel I am being generous to people as your friend seems to think of himself…
“TRA – If I show generosity by sharing information, I am showing off.”
We are lucky souls to have been subjected your generosity dude…Must be our good karma….
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the real abhishek..please continue you..having u here was a thought provoking n engaging experience…rest is ur wish..
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just two short points machhar..
1. the response to ravptor…was preceded by the the remark from ravptor
comment 177…
“@The Real Abhishek
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Charged atmosphere! I will say things because I mean them and not for the sake of effect or sarcasm or politics.
I unconditionally recant all statements that can be perceived as arrogant or rash. Just look at the salad and remove the fatty dressing(although the dressing sometimes makes the salad more palatable).
Looks like the majority vote says I am arrogant.
Fair enough! I have no choice but to accept the verdict… :(
I will try to hide my ego in the shadow of my words or just kill it when that is not an option. I will be more careful from here onwards – to not hurt anyone by words.
@The Devil’s Advocate: You are not too bad yourself as far as articulation is concerned. You seem to be fair with your words. I am saying this although saying this doesn’t quite work in my favor.
@Neeraja – Sorry for ‘that’ statement. It was unwise. I don’t need to count my good deeds. You are right about that. Petty people do that.
@Kaveeta – PFC or no PFC we can always exchange information – you have my email id.
@Anupam – Thanks for the vote of support
@Subrat – I don’t hold any disdain for IT people. I regret my statement.
@Machchar – Yesterday’s errors let yesterday cover. Bury the past with the dead. I won’t write philosophy at least not as response to Anurag’s post on his movie. You are right when you say that the end effect of my initiating the discussion led to complete digression from AK’s original post. I can see that (being a regular here and being almost a de facto representative voice) this was probably your real concern and that you didn’t have any malicious intent while attacking me(Although I must concede that I was quite enraged then). Let’s be more generous towards each other and towards every one else.
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@honhaar gunda
You really are quite honhaar.
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@ TRA. I applaud your diplomacy, and your sudden 180 persona change, lest it be temporary, but gladd none the less. Hope you don’t take no personal offence to anything I have said- and your presence definitly brought some much needed exchange of ideas. But as you yourself have realized, we should make our own thread if this is to continue. just a point of concede: I knew it in my heart you would reply back. FOR I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA!!! LOL!!! once again i joke
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@Devil’s Advocate
It’s not personality change my friend. I had already conceded that I am temperamental.
Looks like egotism is infectious.
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it is… it is… no doubt… thats why one should be able to laugh at it and make light of such situations!!! btw what year are you in at stanford, and what do you plan on doing in the future, any writing?
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@Devil’s Advocate
So no matter how I respond should I be met with slander?
What is the need for diplomacy?
I don’t even know who you or Machchar are. Don’t even know your first names. Why should I even care?
I just didn’t want it to get uglier than what it has already got. So, naturally since even my supporters said that some of my statements hinted of pride – I had no option but to surrender to majority opinion. Would you really call that diplomacy? Can no decency be expected out of me at all? Do you really think that I am so all-black?
It’s not my desperate need to start an atheist or any other kind of missionary. I don’t need to preach. The whole thing was accidental. Unanticipated. I attacked Rand. Some one counterattacked. I attacked God. Some one counterattacked. It was not planned at all. And now I regret that it happened.
I could carry on this discussion with Neeraja, K3, anupam. nikhil etc. elsewhere.
Please explain me what do I stand to gain by carrying it out over here? I wish I had more control over my temperament – my achilles heel.
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Hehe. Yes lightness. Always the best thing.
I am in third year. Yes, research and writing are plans for future.
I hope I can make future my mistress.
And I hope this affair with future will be an affair to remember ;)
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Hey I am not arguing anymore, as far as I am concerned I made my point, and you yourself admit to your “achilles heel”s, temperment and (shush no one say it, I want to hear it straight from the horses mouth). Btw you need not care about anything or anyone, but at the same token don’t be offended when people don’t seem to care about what you have to share or say and interject you with humour. Sure if you want to defend slanderous statments its up to you, but my point being it should bounce off you- and not affect you in anyway- however it does- So contemplate on that!
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Crikey! You guys are like big babies!
This Philosophy discussion should have brought a bit of of, erm, peace, but its done opposite of that? So what does that tell you?! You guys just read the books and not really apply it….. Anyway,
(Kabir)
And Machchar, aap kyon saab ka khooon peena chhathe hain? i know, it was wrong of him (The Real…) to say that, but common, you have done something similar – “I know the stuff – I am right – and you lot are lallus” in the past; i have done it as well. chalta hain. and then later (in hindsight), you realize that you were the only LALLU and rest were sane ;-)
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@Devil’s Advocate
OK sirjee. Two heels – temperament and arrogance!
But, as you yourself observed, it’s a problem only when I am provoked!
Peace man. To you – peace message – straight from heart. :d
So what are your plans?
Now, of all discussions, this discussion will definitely irritate AK!
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@Gundaji
Although, I agree that there are “sane” people on the forum, I strongly think that I am not a “lallu”.
I am short tempered and in no dictionary that is synonymous to “lallu”
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@Gundaji
Oh Sirjee. Misread it. I am sorry. That was for machchar. I read it for myself. Guilty about one thing defending another one. My bad.
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Peace to one. Peace to all. Thus spake Zarathustra!
Later.
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The Real..
I was referring ‘Lallu’ in a different context… in a cheeky context. Not dissing your intellectual level.
You have been quoting names here and there, so i will be quoting Kabir’s doha here and there…
(take it in a good mood. and there are other articles on pfc, you know, which you might find interesting. )
And I will try to say something original… and crap…
Lallu Toh Lallu Hain
Padhe Toh Bhi Lallu Hain
Jiske Paas Huh-see Hain
Honhaar Goonda Ka Aashirvad Hain
:-D
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@Gundaji
Can we get any more filmi?
Hehe. Aapka aashirvad hamra sar aankhon par.
Doobti nayya paar kara do guruji!
Hum to lallu nikle. Khota sikhkha saabji
;)
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@Administrator
I know this is a rather bizarre request.
But, Can you please wipe out all I said?
Too much ugliness. Too much bitterness. Too much bad memory
I didn’t mean to cause it.
My humblest apologies and humblest request.
Please wipe me out – clean.
I will never bother anyone one on this website again.
My apologies once again and sincere request once again.
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The Real..
unfortunately, i don’t think we can grant, erm, this request. just have a bit of laugh; don’t take everything seriously. common, the philoshopy you have been studying, would have taught you that ;-) Only kidding!
as i have said.. read other articles on pfc.. and since you are passionate about cinema, so you will find something other interesting stuffs to discuss about.
its a good discussion; don’t fret about it.
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Macchar,
the short lifespan thing was a joke.
Please do not label us (at least me) as a supporter or non-suppoter. I am a supporter of good discussion, interesting arguments, funny posts.
Yes I did say that he sounded arrogant at times as I say that you sound harsh at times, but I still enjoy your comments. I love sarcasm.
I do not like arrogance, I do not appreciate constant use of abusive language and no that doesn’t mean that I am weak in any way (Also if you would have met me or met any of my friends you would know I don’t coy or very girly), I do not like hypocrisy and a whole lot of other things but
I still have friends who are arrogant, I choose my friends for their qualities. You can always work on your weaknesses.
Now, in case of your TRA, I told him to not to think about it too much, because I do believe that its useless to sit and think about these kind of things and I did not want him to stop posting just because we thought he was arrogant.
One more thing, I was not trying to appear learned, I am trying to learn. I am, as far as I know, very inarticulate in expressing what I want to say especially in english. I learn from you guys
I hope that clears everything.
You are right about the fact that we shouldn’t have posted all that here. Really sorry for that.
Sorry for enchroachment AK!
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First of all I am not sure if you will read this. Secondly I am 5 Heinekens down. Anyways, tHis gives me the liberty to speak what I cannot otherwise. Anuragji, please do not say sorry for anything. People who buy a ticket to watch a movie know what they would expect on the screen. If they buy a ticket for, say, Yashraj film they know it is a saree ad, people who buy a tciket for David Dhavan film, they know it is a nonsense comedy, hence, people who buy a ticket for an Anurag kashyap film should ensure that they have capacity to absorb good cinema, just not running around trees and doing stunts that are IMPOSSIBLE on this planet. (though I feel, even impossible says I’m possible.
I can forgive a lay people like myself who buy a ticket and form an opinion but someone like a moviev reviwer on a TV channel criticises a good movie like “NO SMOKING” then all I can say (with a lot of pity) is they need to get an MRI and CT scan of the organs they carry above their head.
The executives that run the channels should make it a note of the point to rewiew their hiring processes otherwise I would be forced to question their aptitude/intelligence too.
I watched “No smoking” in a theatre in Toronto with a freind and I loved it. My head was heavy the next day and I was still thinking about some of the scenes and the intesity thereof. People appreciate movies like Danzel Wasington’s Deja Vu and Nicholas Cage’s “Next” just beacuse they are from Hollywood. This is exactly why I tell you (Anuragji), let us venture into Hollywood and un sab ki ma. b…. ek kar do!!!!!
In any case all I want to say see is, be honest, do right as you have been doing until now, believe in friends like me who believe in you more than life and things will change. If not today, tomorrow and before you will realize it will be tomorrow and trust me tomorrow is yours and mine too.!!!
Regards,
KP
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@machchar
Also I wanted him to stay because there were a few things he said which I do not agree with (and so there goes your claim of me being his avid ’supporter’) and wanted to discuss. But not only did I forget all about that in this discussion, I see now, as you suggested, that this is not the right place.
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hate to leave lose ends lying strewn about like orphans in a war zone;
@378 Nikhil:
1.For Kautilya:
http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_z_otherlang_english/doc_z_otherlang_english.html
2. Samkhya and Sankara BOTH accept the body /soul duality as it exists in this world
except that Sankara goes above and beyond.
He says that this duality / world as we know it is in fact ‘mithya’/'maya’ ,
an oft repeated eg being ‘mistaking a twisted rope for a snake from a distance,
till you inspect it from close, the knowldge that it is NOT a snake, eludes you,
this ignorance of Reality is removed with the Knowledge of the Truth ie Moksha.
3. Krishna as a Hindu God….hmmm despite being named Krishna and enjoying all
associations with it, must say that as Vaidikas [or believers/ practisioners of the Vedas]
we are very similar to atheists in our non-religious behaviour:)
Ritualistic fervor is not our forte, nor is taking up jobs to conduct religious rites
which is looked down upon in ‘elite’ Vedic circles, hence belief in Krishna does not arise,
as these ‘Gods’ arrived much later and are ’suspect’ [ heaven save me from the Iyengars now!!! ]
The basic goal of such a Brahmin would/should be to be in the path of the BRAHMAN/TRUTH
‘Truth’ having two levels: Higher/Lower
NIRGUNA [ attributeless ] Brahman described at best as ‘Neti Neti Neti’ [ Not this Not this Not this ] is beyond the pale of the physical world, and beyond easy reach so
The lower level accepts SAGUNA BRAHMAN [ with attributes ] and thus the manifestations of God in the form of ‘ishtadevata’ [God of your choice : cld most deffy be Nietzsche for all we care !] since some of us might want ‘nama-rupa’[ form/name ] to fix our minds on but the real deal is NIRGUNA.
With no intermediaries such Krishna, Rama and other distractions. [ Phew now I am done for.]
*pls comment on any of my posts and I shall write to you with my blog address.
@328 Dabba: Language is God.Language is everything.It is our means of expression which is not just words but extends to our thoughts, gestures, costumes, customs, cuisine….in short culture.
[rehan-sehan/vesh/bhoosha]. At first there was the Word and the Word was God…….
How we think and communicate and in which language, shapes us into who we are.
Why this sudden burst of affection for someone who speaks the same language?
Why feel nostalgic at all of Subrat’s posts?
What is this common identity/psyche that shapes us through language?
Urdu is said to be most romantic, French sophisticated, Bengali sweet
German precise, Sanskrit perfect [ main nahin kah rahi sab kahtay hain!! ]
Italian and Telugu are very very Poetic [ This I know ]
If you have ever wondered why most Operas are written in Italian and why people vie to learn iItalian
if they are learning Western Classical Music, just as every great musician/singer of Classical Carnatic has composed/sung in Telugu even if it was NOT his mother tongue is because the language was made for Poetry [ we have 52 alphabets more than any language ], now you know [ maybe knew already ]
Tamizh has its own charm apart from being one of the oldest literary sources we have,
I love to listen to Tamizh film songs…..Punjabi evokes warmth in me….
unfortunately as you mention I do not know Haitian, Native American etc but every language is extremely important Tribal or otherwise because it carries with it the history and the future of its culture with it.So to see something dying not because it happened naturally but because it got killed by a commercial impulse
[ which cld also be a 'natural cause' but here I enter grey areas and get lost ]
That is not acceptable to me.
K
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KM
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Wow, that Khalid and Anurag article is a collector’s item! I missed that link in all this crazy arguments!
Instead of giving a proper reply, Khalid goes on the defensive and attacks! And sounds like “I am gonna write do what you want” kind…
Anyway, I don’t get Hindustan Times and I am saved from his reviews now! haha! Even Mayank Shekhar is bearable!
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@Neeraja
..I do not deny the fact that philosophy and cinema go hand in hand. But what I think is this post is being reduced to a platform to showcase ones intellectual prowess without any result/meaning. It aint helping anybody in anyway. We are not talking cinema here.Look at how much we have digressed from the core issue.
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@shiva
Thanks for reply………
I will link ur point in story………
Dileep
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loved NS
and respect thee…… u r all that i could’nt be……
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Ordered NS from Eros…
Hope this helps to contribute to indie film makers in India
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Hi Anurag ,
your article very clearly brings forward .. the lust for security in the minds of Homo Sapiens species..
I myself .. have had faced a similar situation sometimes … and most of the times .. have chosen the safe and less rewarding path..
Just couldn’t help it. I’ve read somewhere … The biggest risk in life is not to take one .
It sounds so real ..but when you’re faced with a situation to test it .. you immediately step backwards..
But when we people see ordinary(no star son/ no backing) people like you making it big .. And still daring to take a risk big enough to blow it all. .. we get courage ..courage to choose the more rewarding but riskier path .. the next time.
By the way .. I just watched NS for the second time ..And got different thoughts.. some that missed the first time ..enjoyed it even more.
Keep up the good work ..
keep the fearlessness as it is.
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Dear Anurag
I watched your movie twice, and I was told by my friend to read your blog before watching the second time, as I must confess I did not understand it the first time. I did not read your blog and besides being able to put things in editing sequence I still did not get it the second time!
You are angry with the audience (people watch but don’t listen) and the audience are angry with you perhaps for making an arrogant film (and you reserve your rights to listening to audience).
Now let us put the commercial success aside. It is very important for a director to connect to his audience. You cannot treat them as stupid!
I find many similarities (just as ideas not execution) with one of my favourite movie “Memento”. In memento the director uses B&W for narration and I guess you have used “dis-order & blabbering baba” for narration. The ending of memento is quite confusing as well, the only way it can be explained is that it is the “begining” since the movie is in reverse order. In your case perhaps the ending is “madhyantar”, where you are provoking to audience to see it one more time!
It is ok to be arrogant but I think you cannot be indifferent. As a director you need to evaluate where the audience will not understand the subtle message, esp if that message is important for the movie. I am sure you will learn more from the audience experience of this movie.
I don’t think I am qualified to find faults in your movie. All I can say is that I did not like it simply because it was very difficult to understand it.
I still don’t understand why you have portrayed K’s secy as a “bimbo in office” and “frigid wife” at home. You have taken too many chances with moving in and out of organized and unorganized world.
You have a very bright future as a writer and director. Better luck next time!
Regards
Lalit
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lalit the film has no message..
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@Sourav
You are right.
and by the way, Anurag, thanks a lot for the english part of the lyrics of phoonk de, I confess I did not listen to it careful (even though listening to NS songs twice or thrice a day has become a ritual for me)
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@alone
thnx for providing this link…so i guess this is where the Khalid Mohammed-Anurag Kashyap animosity started…is it??gosh!!!did he really give K3G five stars???
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Itna sannata kyon hain bhai?
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Anurag;
U are proud of Satya…u are not so proud of Kaun…..
After some time I am sure u wud come out of this phase n u wud regret making No Smoking….
If u don’t believe me I wud be disappointed……..
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@ Rasik
Thanks to this guy anupam.kr.singh .. He posted this link.. Even i was not aware of this.
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Ali you would be disappointed.. i was indifferent to kaun.. NS is my most personal film..it is my UGLY CHILD that i love more than anything i ever loved..
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Dear Dilip Bhai
Let me make an attempt to answer your questions in 432, i.e. if you are still interested. No one answered your questioned in 96 too but I guess you figured those out by now. Let me also warn you that you can make your own interpretation of the movie completely different then mine and it will be fine too. In a classical situation auidence goes to watch a movie, however in case of NS, the movie watches you! Thus it makes you vulnerable. You are trying to find answers to your questions in the movie and there are none. It is like asking the mirror how do I look and the answer as usual comes from within and not from mirror!
Now getting to questions -
Question-1) Suppose if john smoked one more times, then what will happen??
[Lalit] K is incorrigible. He wakes up in siberia and says he needs a smoke. He is at the point of no return, the act of smoking is no longer important at this point.
a) Is Baba bangali forcefully jailed his aatma???
[Lalit] There is no other choice for Baba!
Question-2) KJ(Comment 81) u said
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Re: comment 486 by Lalit
Hey Lalit,
If you’ve seen Mulholland Drive, you wouldn’t answer it that way. This movie is no different structure wise. In Mulholland Drive, we see Naomi Watts going to sleep in the beginning, and the movie(or dream) starts off. In this movie, we see John waking up at the end, and also his two fingers are cut which we never saw in the movie. That means, he already has met Baba Bengali, and has joined the program with him.
Since he got his fingers cut already, the entire program is giving him nightmares. And hence the movie is John’s nightmare. Like any dream, it starts off smooth with things that happened to us, and then gets weirder and weirder by making a cocktail of all the information we have in our brain.
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this may sound crazy…. i liked NS bcos i did’nt understnd it….. much like life ……
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… let me rephrase “did’nt understand COMPLETELY” …. there are parts which resonate
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Thats enough folks !
I like to think of PFC as a forum for the cinematic arts. …
Not a “lets suck up to AK channel” !
Please dont derogate yourself any further,….read new posts …Life moves on,….Cinema FOLLOWS !
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Dear Shiva,
I have not seen Mulholland Drive, but have heard about it. In computer programming, there is a method called “recursive programming”. A program is written to solve a problem, the way recursive program works is that it solve only a part of the problem and then it calls itself. After several iterations it completes the job and gets out of it. It is much like concept of reincarnation and nirvana!! If I understand it right MD does the same, by nesting of dreams. Am I right?
In experimenting with time and space the director has very few options to work with. In Memento the story is told in reverse, in Butterfly Effect the story goes back ‘n forth in time trying to figure out different outcomes based on certain past actions. So what is NS about, Anurag is not giving out much hint, maybe he has a sequel in mind or maybe his will only explain it to Oscar Jury!
I beg to differ with the conclusion you have arrived at and my reasoning is that there is a scene in the move where K calls the Baba and he says that he never lit the cigar. He goes on, even if he did, it was his second time, so his fingers should be cut and not his wife killed. To this Baba Bangali says “teri ungliya kisi ne tham rakhi thi”.
You could right, if that phone call was a dream sequence, less likely, don’t you think? A director will usualy give a hint when going in and out of dreams, Anurag is perhaps using the signature tune (is it the shenai? but whatever it is it grows on you.) I don’t think I can watch it third time to make more sense of it.
Lalit
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Hi Anurag,
Got hold of a copy of NS a few days back…and what can I say? I was HOOKED! But frankly, it took me atleast 2 viewings to interpret the whole idea in a clear cut way…such deeply entrenched symbolism, frolicking between reality and dreams! must admit, I have never seen such a ‘path breaking phenomena’ happen since Lynch. For the past few days, I have been watching NS like a crazy cinephilic and with each viewing the idea is settling in, slowly & steadily. I am really happy that NS came out and kudos to you to make it work! Pity the Indian diaspora who couldn’t make much out of it :-(
Your sincerity, dedication and strong belief in the cinematic medium, makes me smile and cling to that elusive thing called ‘hope’ in Indian Cinema. Really man, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. DON’T EVER GIVE UP.
I love this medium and do all I can do catch up with the classics everytime…and imbibe all I can. I believe, every filmmaker has his/her ideas and each one of them has an unique way of putting it across to the masses. Anyways, that said…would be glad if we could get in touch and get more of cinematic gyaan ;-).
My email: muse-ruse@hotmail.com
Looking forward to hear from you.
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@Lalit
@KJ
@shiva
@Anurag Kashyap
Thanks for ur warm reply, lalit…….
U mean if john smoked one more time, baba bangali focefully jailed his aatma. But he alraedy give up after 3rd one and leave his aatma………OK,agree with u lalit.(But KJ think, baba bangali will release body and aatma both, after one more smoke…..i am not agree with this KJ)
But 1 Rs funda is still not clear, u said lalit “Re 1 was for allowing his soul to communicate with himself. Since he did not pay it, in the real world K has lost his identity/soul.” means if Jhon had paid that 1 Rs he can communicate with his soul (and his aatma will not evaporate) means he still has his identity/soul/freedom means if he paid 1 Rs, he can start smoking again…????
waiting for reply…….
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People are crying after No Smoking
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Hi Oz,
was wodering if there was , kind of a sub blog where one could talk about regional movies > A few of us in particular were keen to see reactions of people on sindhi movies , sindhi essentially bieng a blend of urdu & punjabi
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Ram? Does Sindhi Cinema even exists? And are you the same Ram of UTV? If so…Wanted to ask you one question…What even made your company produce “Goal”? You guys have so much knowledge about scripts but still produce such stuff?
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Dear Dileep
Your question on Re 1 is a “what if” scenario and is subject to interpretation. Honestly I don’t know what would have happened. Don’t take the movie too seriously boss!
If you are not satisfied with my reply please read the script of NS, it is posted on PFC somewhere.
thanks
Lalit
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Anurag, it was a delicious film, I admit it was- it disturbed me, it tantalized me, and it stayed with me. I could have carried every frame home with me and plastered it all over the walls. But (and fuck the commercial shit, this is just between you and me) – I just thought it could have been so, so much better had it not been so angry, so un-subtle. I loved the metaphors, but they were all so literal! You robbed me of any kind of surprise – I didn’t go ‘woah – I didn’t see that coming’ – it was a film so blatantly brash that I felt like having a good sit down with it and say, ‘look here, NS, just just cut this shit and get your act together. You’re cute, you’re tough and you’ve got guts – just don’t get stupid man’. And that comic blurb thing was just baffling – I mean, did you have to? You could have made a brilliant, witty, original film – with your entire ego and creativity perfectly intact – but something makes this film stop short of greatness – at least for me, it does. And I always got the feeling that, simple doesn’t always mean stupid. Maybe Mr. Bharadwaj would know? It’s like a Steinbeck and Yeats Vs a Kafka and an Eliot. They’re all so brilliant – but Steinbeck and Yeats can be brilliant without being verbose or abstract or any of those things. Or maybe it’s just a matter of taste. Who knows, maybe on a rainy Sunday morning – I’ll learn to love this whimsical film of yours. But for now, it’s just frustrating, because of all the ‘could-have’s. I respect your vision, but not over mine, sorry! But please, keep at it – loved the post – and usually your films as well.
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@Lalit
Thanks for reply, Lalit….
It is not like ‘What if’, I just want to understand 1 Rs funda.
There is no 1 Rs funda in the script, posted under “The Script of No Smoking” at PFC.
May be Anurag Kashyap also confused with own 1 Rs. funda thats why he posted script with out 1 Rs funda………..Ha ha…Just joking………
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Anurag,
Where can I get the soundtrack played during begin credits in No Smoking..!
It wud be great if I can get that.
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Anurag
wat up buddy? watched american gangster. denzel man…was thinking how does it feel to direct someone like him…i wd just roll and let him do whatever he wants..lol got to find a producer for that. went down to newark to see the real frank lucas. helps if theres a real character for reference. check out the trailor in YT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSOYSLDuQE
has anyone watched 40 yr virgin? check out the old indian man with the brooklyn accent….thats good writing. Stupid humor man I love it. I have pasted the url here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IK0Z99aE54
Heres another one which i thot was pretty cool. IF u like them leave a post yo. I know this is Anurag’s blog, but hey, ive lost a girlfriend since i stopped smooching her and forgot she existed, the moment Ashutosh said “Mumbai..aisa shehar jise neend nahin ati” so u owe this to me my man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA1NoOOoaNw
kuch karte hain yaar….geting old ….mausam beeta jai
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Re: comment 491 by Lalit
Re: comment 494 by Dileep
if you guys still don’t understand what the movie and the “ek rupiya” and “aatma” connection, let me explain it for once and all.
the following scenes are what have happened for real in john’s life.
1. ayesha takia watching the gas chamber scene from schindler’s list. and john asking her what nonsense is she watching.
2. john sees that few people were watching him when going into the carpet house to meet baba bengali and wondering who were they.
3. baba bengali talking about aatma when john asks him what if he still smokes after the 4th punishment.
4. baba bengali asking for his 1 rupee but john doesn’t have any. baba bengali is little dissapointed.
all the above scenes happened to him in real.
now to the the aatma, 1 rupiya and line me khade hojao scene.
since it’s a dream and it’s only john’s imagination, the entire scene is “made up” by his mind with the subconscious information from the above scenes. now exactly how?
scene 4 + scene 2 + scene 3 + scene 1
that how dreams work.
1 rupiya nahi diya + logon ke saath line me khade hona + aatma cheenna + gas chamber me evaporate hona
if you still don’t understand what i’m trying to say, then all i can say is i’ve tried my best to explain. just think of one thing. do you think such things can be possible in real life except for dreams?
thank you for reading ( not trying to understand)
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Re: comment 491 by Lalit
and also watch Mulholland Dr. It’ll be fun to read your interpretation and many who claim to have understood the movie and are praising it for god knows what.
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@ shiva
so baba bengali is real?
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Editor Note(D): Please do not use PFC to advertise or spam with your products/services
AK…you want to swim with the sharks, but you want them to respect you? for what? for being tasty?
If you want to make films the way you want to make them, then you must realize that Bollywood might not be the place. Sure, it’s awe-inspiring. It’s a dinosaur…but it is a dinosaur that will soon go extinct….the yashrajs and the johers will pass…the kashyaps will pass…every predator becomes a prey one day…that is the rule of life.
Only those who accept change will be right in the end…day after day after day…
Whether you be the change or be changed, change is certain…ride on it!
sareesh
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@ shiva….
and thats how dreams work ….remember sometimes u see or hear something ..may about ur school ..you ponder about it in your mind …and then you have this dream of beinng in school again ..may be the teaacher is the you PM from office and friends are from your college days …which doesn’t make any sense ..but thats how dreams are ….
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Hi AK,
From the common man.
I was able to watch NO SMOKING for the first time recently. My first reaction was to find out who was responsible for such a movie! Googled my way down and found a way of potentially communicating with its creator.
I am not a complete movie man, just your average “joe-blog NRI” who seldom watches a Bollywood movie as part of a family bonding exercise. Anyway… I was mesmerised and left gasping as what I was watching. Never had I expected to see such a movie when we as audiences class films like OSO as box office spectaculars and then on the same not movies like No Smoking are brandished ill-logical.
I don’t particularly care what the masses think, but it does piss me off when people who come forward and show the ability to think beyond a “song and dance in the swiss alps” are brandished fools for attempting to think.
The movie for me was “mind-stretching” and provided a certain sense of “arrogance” for been able to understand the directors vision. Shame your name is not Stephen King as you would have been lauded with praise. I remember a few weeks back I saw a interview clip of Johns where he stated “No Smoking will find its own audience” I am certainly part of that. No Smoking in my opinion is probably ahead of its time for the wider masses.
It takes a man of steel balls to make a lasting sound.
PS Reading your blog I was further enthralled to read that you will be combing with Abhay in the near future – sounds great.
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Elysian ,
So you understood No Smoking story….?????
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Anurag,
LAJJO is a real project or virtual?
IMDB says you and mani are part of it…
-KM-
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“SIR” Anuraj… yes.. this is how i give my salutation to u.. i m new out here on this site.. and eagerly want a reply from u… i was in midst of those who saw no smoking.. between the 2 who cursed the movie like hell.. and who applauded ur movie to its best.. i was absolutely convinced with ur work sir, it was definately a masterpiece.. but the only issue with me was the interpretation.. may be the indian audience is not still so matured to interpret the movie like dis one.. reading this article.. the only way i can greet u is “SIR”..
now coming to my query… i am 18 and a c.a student and above average at academics and knwo that i can make it quite descent in my academic career…love to analyse the film and give reviews(not officially).. and m steppin into film making.. i always knew dat i can do it.. but like u cursed in ur article, i m one of those who has the issue of security… i m rite now commencing with a film.. not to be a multi-star film-maker at a shot.. or to earn loads of money or just to enter into the glam world… no.. i m making it just to exhibit and test my talent as a film maker, to know how much i can bring the characters alive from ordinary people who have never touched even a pinch of acting.. as planned, its gonna be a short film.. not actually bollywood.. somethin dif… i know every film-maker says this.. but in ma film.. d characters gonna be more imp than the story.. people will involve wid characters and not the story.. it will be the characters which will be takin the film on their shoulders and not the story.. which is rarely seen in bolly films..
so sir.. i request u, to please reply to this comment, let me know m i going on teh right path????… is there any suggestion for me from ur side???.. please sir.. desperate to hear from u.. and i will definately try to walk on teh path that u have shown me..
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All i’m going to say is, I’m glad I watched it.
Great going. I’m glad someone had the guts.
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DK – You asked if I understtod the movie?
My Answer – I Interpreted it to suit my logic. When did we as humans loose the right to think and imagine for ourselves, brings us back to AKs original point.
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Re:comment 504 by parth
he is real. coz john wakes up at the end and has his fingers cut. so in real life he has joined one such program and smoked twice. so got his fingers cut.
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hi Anurag…
did you read my interpretation of your ugly child? it was different from what you wanted to say but was on the parallel track and going in the same direction…( i had sent it to you on MYSPACE)
as for the craft i had few reservations which i mentioned in my message…we all are in a journey and will keep learning…
all the best wishes for your future venture…
kedar
PS: TRY TO RELAX, buddy…! Life is around you…you are part of it…! and it no more cruel if you will open your eyes…! you need to be objective about your expression only then you can sing in tune with the nature and millions would tune in…! if you are inclined towards darker side of life then you need to be MORE alert and objective while expressing it…! best wishes again…!
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Anurag,
I watched the movie on Sunday on DVD, and it really moved me. I wish you hadn’t put up your “explanation”. Doing that kills the USP of the movie. Sure, the USP hasn’t exactly worked in our cinema halls, but I feel this movie will become a cult-movie, with a small but satisfied group swearing by it. I just posted a review on my blog, and I’m collecting some intelligent reviews of the movie, critical or otherwise. And I already see a lot of people actually have got it, partly, just as I have (or differently, but that’s okay, right?). I’m not a movie expert, and do not understand the technicalities, but NS is more like a book, than a movie for me. The thematic brilliance is what sets it apart. Execution might have been better, who knows. There is always a chance to better everything. But I’m not complaining.
Above all, I admire your courage to say what you wanted to uncompromisingly. You made a movie the way you wanted to. And it’s not that inaccessible. I think people have lost the habit of watching movies intently (I’m sure they had it sometime!). The attention spans have shrunk.
In Thodasa Roomani Ho Jaayen, the father says to a well-wisher: “agar aisi duniya ko pareshani hai Binni ke bareme, to rahe… ab main duniya ki umeedon ke hisaab se apni Binni ko kaat-chaat ke chota to nahin kar sakta” (or something to the effect). I think that’s all you need to say. You will reach those who want to be reached.
regards,
asuph
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@ Anurag Kashyap
was the script of hanuman returns storyboarded?
do you know of any live action movies in bollywood which were storyboarded?
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Anurag, the thing I liked about NS was the ending. Loved it. It made the rest of it worth it for me. It is an honest film, which is better than good. I made an honest film too, its 10 mins long, my mother thinks its very good
. But seriously, I can send you a link if you care to watch it, let me know where to send it.
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Subhash k Jha patches up with Anurag Kashyap ??? What the ???????
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India_Buzz/The_good_things_about_bad_Saawariya/articleshow/2581639.cms
Subhash K Jha in timesofindia
“But some filmmakers can take criticism on their chins. Gautam Ghose, an outstanding filmmaker, is also an exceptional human being. When I called his Yatra a dud, he took the criticism in his stride and moved on. Now I
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@Anurag ..
R U acting in Shagird by Tigmanshu Dhulia ?
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hi anurag,
what is the status of your film “GULAL”.can we expect it soon..
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sharath Gulaal has found money and is on it’s way to completion..
yes turtle i am acting both in Tishu’s film and sudhir mishra’s “johnny” as a gangster..
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Mere acting career ka kya hoga? kahin ye shuru hote hi khatam toh nahi hoga??? lol…
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sir(Anurag) i m anxiously waiting for ur reply.. please reply to my comment..
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Hey Anurag,
What was the intention of the movie? And how cathartic was it for you?
I can honestly tell you Black Friday raised a debate. Maybe not as much as it would have if it had been released a few years ago. But it did raise one. It raised one in my house and thats hard to do.
But, if you classify No Smoking as a failure, it would be terribly interesting to see what you come up with next.
Maybe you can be a bit more kinder in your selection of core audience if you do have one. Which does not exclusively have only people you hate or have a bone to pick with. Maybe those of us who appreciate your movie making can be included as well?
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SAT SRI AKAL ANURAG JI,
U R DOING VERY WELL I MEAN UR MOVIE SUB. ARE SO GOOD AND MAKING AWARE TO THE SLEEPING JANTA OF THE DESH. I MEAN IF WE DO BLCK FRIDAY AND NO MOKING KIND OF CINEMA THAN REALLY PEOPLE WILL WAKE UP AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEIR RESPOSIBILITES. TKS. ONCE AGAIN FOR THAT KIND OF SUPER CINEMA.
I THINK U SHOULD MAKE A MOVIE ON THE PEOPLE WHO LIVES IN A SLUMS OR SAY IN JHUGGI JHOPDI . HOW BADLY THEY SPEND THEIR LIVES AND HOW BADLY THEY ARE TREATING TO THEIR CHILDRENS. I MEAN NO KHANNA, NO PROPER KAPDA TO WEAR AND SPL. THESES KIND OF PERSONS DOING A JISM BUSINESS AND DYING WITH THE AIDS.
BECOZ THEY DON’T HAVE THE MONEY TO FULLFILL THEIR OWN DESIRE AS WELL AS FAMILY REQ. SO THEY DO THAT KIND OF LOW WORKS AND DIED BEFORE THE MAUT COMES.
IT CAN BE A GOOD CINEMA.
TKS. REPLY IF U LIKE
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anurag sir SSA,
i would like to say that the defence person’s children are more brave and powerful than the others becoz they really have the red blood i mean every body had a red blood but the army persons have a spl. kind of red blood they have spl. power to bear any kind of pain so that their childs do the same. they are brave as ell as do the daring things.i kno one person i injured totally in a accident by scooter but he is really a brave boy he came to his home to drive his sctoor as he as bleeding seriously. be coz his father was a army person and one more PAYRI BAAT IS THAT THEY ARE SO MUCH AGYAKARI BACHHAS as everbody is not.
they are totally rough and tough childs.
god fie that kind of RED BLOODTO EVERY ONE SO TAHT THEY CAN USE IT FOR HE DESH AS WELL AS TO PROTECT THEIR LIVES AND DESH KI JANTA AND SAB KUCH SEHA JANA.
“bhagawn kare sabhi log itnay hi damdaar ho, taaki woh kabhi bhi naa sharirik bimaar ho, or hamre desh kay liye apni jaan ladaney ko sada hi tayaar ho”.
tks
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anurag turns to os(h)o….
here is the link…
http://tehelka.com/story_main36.asp?filename=hub081207Farah_Formula.asp
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Hi Anurag
Its been a real long time since I had talked to you last. This is not a “comment – comment” or “view – view” thing on your post but I thought may be this is the only way to get in touch with you. Since “No smoking”’s release you have been almost been untraceble with all justified reasons!! Let me admit you that No Smoking was a kick on the butts of those hippocrates who critisice “Typical Hindi Bollywood Cinema” yet find it difficult (Some times impossible) to appreciate some thing thought provoking! BRAVO!!! All thumbs up !! (bottoms too)
The blog here is a blessing in disguise! We all people who want to make it big (but cant get through :( ) find it extremely passionate and encouraging to interact with some one we have always looked up to.
WHAT TO DO IF I HAVE TO MAKE IT BIG?????
Thats what I want to scream!! I hope this is the right place…. GUYS!!
anyway…. thanks !! I am so relieved! :D
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@ Anurag
One more thing I wanted to ask you… I know u have been closely associated with Short films.. Do you see short film makers entertained and helped if they approach you?
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1 rupee is equivalent to the metaphor “my 2 cents” (Read it in Anurag’s web chat on rediff)….so if u do not give ur 2 cents in this world, u actually lose ur soul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!it was never meant to be what if he had paid the rupee!!!!!!!
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I have nothing new to say but since this is the only forum through which i can show my appreciation for a director’s work (since being able to do it in person is out of the question)…
I really enjoyed watching No Smoking, though I did not agree with the way it ends. Something is missing. You had all these layers to the story and so many interesting threads. I think from the point K decides to give ‘chakma’ to the Baba, the narrative loses its graveness (this is the only word i can think of).
technically, the movie was beautiful. so many Hindi movies never go beyond the tried and tested cinematic and narrative techniques, its discouraging. K’s descent into the Underworld, the Mephistopheles-cum-Yama like Baba, the different urban spaces mapped in the movie,the loss of self/soul…who even expects these details from Hindi cinema. What I’d have liked to see was why it was so important to retain the notion of an abstract conception like ‘atma’- its beholden to the Baba, but why is it such an important concept in the Modern/Modernist/capitalist/industrial world? The movie for me did not answer this question. (I know you have talked above about the idea of ’self’ with regards to the movie, but I got caught by the term ‘atma’).
Again, such a beautiful, brave, captivating, interesting, provocative film, though not perfect. Maybe things will change someday and we’ll see more of this kind of cinema in Indian theatres.
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interesting story…on tahelka…finally long overdue support for the film…..
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main36.asp?filename=hub151207What.asp
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A sensible article on NS.
cheers NS/Anurag, I sincerely hope it becomes a cult classic.
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@Anurag Kashyap
I wish to thank you for your film: surprising, unusual interesting, shocking and setting thinking.
“No smoking” has made the strongest indelible impression on me .
Actually it has wakened my dozing doubts and questions, which for a long time I have hibernated in the farthest angle of my consciousness.
You have made beautifully unmerciful, excellent sincere, filigree ironic, happily desperate, precisely actual masterpiece, Anurag.
You have forced my consciousness to wake up.
Thank you for this.
Interestingly, how your creation had affected You.
“In these days, too, the poets walk on razors barefoot,
And slash to ribbons naked hearts and souls!”
Vl. Vysotsky
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What was extremely interesting to me in No Smoking- this immemorial question -the person and society. Adapting to pressure of society, we pay off loss of a significant part of the individuality.
Smoking in NS- is symbol of personal (in this case the male essense ) freedom, or, we shall tell other-antisocial properties of any person (and personal freedom always is antisocial), having refused from which under pressure of society, the person lost they deep true I .
The mechanism of brains washing is shown perfectly in speeches Babu Bengali with transparent devil behind his back. Methods and results of this pressure upon the person in film directly associative with hitler`s methods of mass physical destruction in gas chambers. What is puzzled me me -association of Russia and hitler. Interestingly. For me personally these two countries are connected, there where hitler Germany -in the same place is victory of Russia and disposal of the world from fascism. In each Russian family there is a grandfather or the great-grandfather the victim in war with hitlerite Germany. But, perhaps, in film this association is different -perception Russia as the totalitarian society completely supervising the person (as in hitlerite Germany).
I liked surreal beauty of this moment in film-K appears in a situation, where his freedom ( expressed in smoking ) is impossible basically. On the TV on a background there is a text of news that in acts of terrorism in cigarettes has been found cyanide and the decree of the president is totally forbid smoking . Beautifully.
In an extreme situation of a choice K behaves extremely -will allow itself to kill more likely, than will refuse the smoking (freedom). Well, the direct choice is easier for making, you understand that you are right and struggle for it up to the end.
It is much more difficult to protect freedom of individuality when you are poisoned by created of society creeping poison of simulacrum and installations of which are driven in into your brain and soul, then you start to doubt of the correctness and any more you do not know, what is important to your I, and what is not.
What is killed:) me-a deciding starter of the beginning of submission K society was all the same the woman.. Doubly killed me -she was happy remained from K a body without soul and has not noticed difference .Scaring perception of the female beginning generally.
(Now because of this film I should think twice before to tell something to my husband. O, my God, I do not wish to be a causes pushing him to the beginning of destroying his individuality.:) )
It is interesting perception of the woman`s essence in film. A superficial layer: woman the-wife, expressing concentration pressure of society and obedient convenience (in the same person) is clearly. Mother-sense of faults, female generally -incognizable, simultaneously obedient and imperious essence with closed face – is clear too.
But what is not very clear to me-why among these separated souls in a cell was not any female soul? Two answers-or they the perfect divine beings which do not have contradictions between a body and soul or at women in general does not have a soul.. Interestingly.
And on the other hand-duality of the female beginning (the dualism there in all concepts and images sticks out) was distinctly showed in the same stage, in fact she strongly tried to give this one rupee to Babu Bengali.. And K has not never even tried.
Thank you for the film, Anurag.
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I read that new Tehelka piece on NS and imagined my old editor slashing off the first four paragraphs so that we could get straight to the point, which is a good one. I would start it with “Here is an Indian film that…”
bonvarnon, I really appreciated your point of view.
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Anurag,
I have a concept that will change our lives forever. Get at me.
Avi
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Evelyn, thanks.
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Ak,
yOU r GOD to me , if u evr betray me M gonna kill you!!!!!!!!!!
http://abbas-tyrewala.sulekha.com/blog/post/2001/08/surely-you-re-joking-mr-kashyap.htm
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“The best drama, the best thriller and the best political film released in the United States this year is Anurag Kashyap’s ‘Black Friday,’ about a 1993 terrorist bombing that devastated Mumbai (then Bombay) and highlighted rifts between Muslims and Hindus. The police interrogation scenes are more harrowing than anything in this year’s Hollywood films dealing with war, terrorism and torture. The rhetorically dense arguments between cops and suspects grant more insight into how class and religious difference feeds terrorism than anything you read on the op-ed page in the last 12 months. It’s also as expansive as ‘Munich’ and as savagely kinetic as ‘To Live and Die in L.A.’ That this film didn’t get a wider release in the U.S. is a minor tragedy. Rent the DVD immediately.” — Matt Zoller Seitz
http://www.indiewire.com/movies/2007/12/critics_poll_20.html
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This video is a dedication to THE REAL ABHISHEK
For all the gyan he gave us during his rampage at PFC.
Kavita will also like this video from Monty Python.
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Made my Day Mainak!!
” Beckenbauer a surprise there
) ”
How do they think of this!!
Btw you got my mail replying your queries?
My gmail is acting up so just checking……..
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I did get your email. Only 1 so far. I have not emailed Indira yet.
Thanks a lot.
Are you on facebook or myspace?
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@Mainak
)
=d>
sahi video hai mainak bhai!
PS: I am glad to find someone who appears to be more addicted to youtube than I am.
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Youtube is GOD!
Did you see the Top Ten Videos of 2007 by W.I.R.E.D magazine?
Theres a link for them in my last Post here. I hope you have seen them.
I don’t watch TV. So when I hear something good happened on TV , I look for it in youtube that week. And keep floating around through the related videos
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BTW Neeraja
You are male or female? Curious after you added bhai to my name.
Neeraja Guleri?
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lol! ab ladkon ko bhai bolna bhi gunaah ho gaya hai!
didn’t mean it :P
Neeraja is obviously a female name na?
I saw your discoveries wala post but not the top ten wala you mention here. Will surely have a look.
Just in case you are still wondering, I am a girl.
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@Mainak
She is Neerja Guleri not Neeraja Guleri.
I used to get very annoyed looking at that spelling every Sunday morning.
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I want to be in a fist fight with anurag b-(
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hi AK
met u in pune during PIFF but meetin u on PFC in an entirely dif experience,and its amazing…
everythin i read and i read it again and again…
you are my ideal
i love you and i ove you more than i can
well somewhere on the pfc i read, that all the AK fans can drop in on his sets
i want to come on the sets of DEV D,
whr r they shooting…?
plz let me knw
plz plz plz
if its in mumbai or nearby… i can surely come, that too all alone
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was just reading about you and black friday issues! Sir…im really sorry to mention but it lacked ACCURATE research! tHE STOMACH episode in particular cos’ honestly its a lil’ close to me….! but im sure you gotta follow the old faith…..and STAY HIGH!
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but you are surely making way for me….you see there are no crimes, only actions!
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I have found that luck is quite predictable. if you want more luck, take more chances.
Be more active.
Show up more often!
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Hey folks!!!!!!!!
i know its very very late
chuck it i know it’s fuking late bt cnt help it
i am not a regular to PFC…jus visit it once in a blue moon n gets an overview of wat all thngs r being discused
thts it……..
bt aftr reading thz wat anurag wrote aftr NS i realy wntd 2 b a part of th interaction/ revolution or revelation or watevr it is but it’s simply thought provoking
anurag s absolutely rite in sayn tht most of us r bound n stuck within our own shells n v jus dnt wnt 2 gt out of it
v jus hate the idea of risking our comfort level n doing wat we ACTUALLY WANT 2 do
v want to do sumthng n v land up doing sumthng
and come to think of it which is actually weired
no its simple
v all r aware of wat we are n wat v wnt 2 do wth our lives bt the twist comes vwhn v feel burdened wth our environment n v realise tht v owe sumthng 2 othrs n thts our family, frnds, peers, parents n many species in the homo sapien race
v gt into th rat race n do conventional stuff coz v kno thts safe n tht guarantees hapiness (status, power, money)
thz piece of writing is an art in itself n it jus makes u aware of wat we as ambitious dreamers r capable of…
m nt sure if anurag intented thz bt thz article in itself especially th begining( tibetan part n th facets of th characters involved in NS)can very much b equated to sumthng like RDB( basanti)
th problem s v dnt wnt 2 b courageous enouph 2 stand 4 ourselves, fight 4 our rights n lead a ” regular” life
which even i do i lead a regular life, smokin a clasic regular n thnkin m a super human doin my job effectively but thz s nt wat i wanted 2 do
I WANTED/ WANT TO DO SUMTHNG ELSE
BUT……….
may be i hv interpreted it in a dfrnt way n taken it 2 a difrnt level
bt ya i felt lik sharing aftr reading
thts y i mentioned earlier thought provoking
bt feels gud tht filmmakers lik anurag hv th courage n th money 2 make such filmms n cater to th indian audience
he cud hv also gone 4 film festival n positioned NS as a short film or sumthng but making it into a feature film s quite gutsy
cheers to tht n lookin forward to more work lik NS
n more writings frm THE ANURAG…
cheers!!!!!!!!
KK
( th initial has got nothng 2 do wth NS)
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You have no idea how much I love what I have just read– I dont mind being a bit indulgent and pompous but I swear to God i feel a bit special that i get it.
I rented Cat’s Eye 2 days back because i read that NS was inspired by it.. but I appreciated what NS was so much more than Cat’s Eye as a basic movie on a whole, because NS takes you on this whole trip ad sort of drops you off before you reach the end of the journey just to fend for yourself a bit. Honestly, I haven’t interacted with too many people who loved the movie, and if people put it down when they realize I loved it, i LOVE defending it. Because for me, thats what this is all about. You make your contribution to cinema and then leave it for us to critique, some like it, some don’t. But (for me at leat), the best part is when those who like it go on and on relentlessly defending it to those who couldn’t care for it. Truthfully, when I was defending it, i sort of felt a bit bad for those i was defending it to, because i was like damn, you dont get it. The same with honeymoon travels- (its one of my favourites-absolutely brilliant) when people say its ok or it wasnt great im like are you mad-it was completely brilliant!! and its sad because they dont get these characters, whisch is so strange because i know these characters are people who im sure actually exist and when you dont get this, youre really missing out.
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anurag,
i read this blog of yours for the first time. i must say i am impressed wid u. i dont read blogs, but u hit the nail when u said u can love but not respect a person who doesnt take the plunge. i am writing a movie, a malayalam movie. been writing it for the past 1 year. have to finish it this year atleast. i am just 20, i am confused but one thing i am sure about is to make my movie. i wont direct it as i dont have the experience to do so. i read some time back about abbas tyrewala saying ” no one will take a 21 year old serious if he says he wants to make a movie.” i sorta felt sad but then i am hanging on. can u do me a help, if at all u read this post, pleas mail me a few tips about screenplay writing. i am writing a thriller. sorta neo noir. my mail add is ahmed.sid@gmail.com
tc
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Anurag, why have you written this? Its a very good piece no doubt, but by writing it, in a way aren’t you contradicting yourself? You’ve spoken about the ‘I’, ‘Self’ and thus the ego that manifests but then explaining yourself to the world, justifying why you made NS, ( by writing this and also saying that you’ll keep the audience in mind while making a film – even though you’ll do it not in the escapist way) it just doesn’t fit in with the concept you in a way symbolise..
Not that it’lll will take away anything from who you are or why people love your ideas and approach to films, to life…
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Anurag,
“No Smoking” was pure genius. Probably ahead of Indian Standard Time. Keep doing the psychological stuff on screen. The audience will warm up to it. That kind of screenplay sinks in with time and some life experience.
Do Not Quit on that style. You’re great at it.
May the Force be with you.
s.
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You are right Mr. Anurag. By the grace of God I understood that one has to be independent and leave all security issues to achieve his\her aim. In nov. 2007 I left my job. It was tough as my insurance policies lapsed, I had the burden of paying my car load.
But today things are being fine. Am working on my independent films (shorts). And am working as a Chief AD in a feature film for CFSI.
I would like to share few of my concepts for feature film with you. Can you please give me your email id.
My ID is ashwanithakur@gmail.com
Thanks
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Anurag,
I saw No Smoking 2 days back and after that in my view… u r in scorsese and tarantino league…
do not swap yr craze for success…
with Dev D and Gulaal.. you are moving to musical and color world also… that’s great addition… salute to Piyush mishra for his lyric and music… u got solid team.
on commercial success.. just recall GB shaw… its unreasonable man with whom change flow.
reasonable man synonyms to compromise most of the time… and no use even “ye duniya agar mil bhi jaaye to kya hai…” with compromise. basis of compromise is fear… wrong side.
talking to No smoking man… philosophy?… what the heck… “child is father of man…” Wordsworth comes into defense.
aajkal prasal aur nirala ki poem yaad nahi rahati… missing my hindi nowdays!
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sperm.. .
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