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Is not it character assassination trial on PFC by Mr Suparn Verma
Perhaps it was Saint Kabir who had said it in a precise manner
Nindak niyre rakhiye, Aangan kuti chawaye !
Bin saabun pani bina, nirmal kare subhaye !!
[Essence - One should keep critics around him so that one does not go wrong and remain grounded].
Mr Suparn Verma wished to play a critic to PFC but he did not like if PFC wished to play same role towards cinema especially Hindi cinema (because his concerns in the post have been limited to hindi cinema only).
Wish, if he was able to apply unbiased and justified approach which might suit a sensible film maker.
Sometimes intentions simply destroy the work. He has damaged his own post by opting wrong approach. He has raised some good points but he tried to do everything in sensational manner. Through his post he tries to paint a picture where he is the only flag bearer of hindi cine industry while PFC is enemy of hindi cinema. He tries to give impression that he is supporter of Yash Raj, Karan Johar, SRK, SLB, Aamir, Salman and PFC treats them with step feelings.
There are many posts written by many others and even I can produce many posts written by me only praising above mentioned filmmakers and actors and their works. But one can wake up a person who is natually sleeping but who is acting to be in sleep, he cant be woke up.
He mentions that he was provoked to write something after reading comments on the KANK post. But perhaps Mr Suparn Verma wanted to write such post since long but this event gave him appropriate timing but in haste he could not see few things.
(1) Comments are posted by readers and anyone can post anything on internet
(2) Within 30 seconds of objectionable comment, warning was posted by administrative section of PFC.
Whatelese he needs from PFC? PFC is not police station where one can capture a commentator.
He should have considered that if PFC is personally against Karan Johar why it will publish an article on his work? Many times we have discussed him and his works. Many have liked him and his works and many have not liked. Its quite natural. As Karan himself will be having preferential likings and dislikings. We dont know him personally. I find him a person with friendly attitude through his programme KWK. Have seen all his films. As usual somethings have been quite good in his films and some things were not so good.
He easily forgets many things under the excitement of writing such post or it was a cold blooded murder attempt?
He forgets what is PFC? He forgets who makes PFC? Till he is writing on PFC, till he is exploring what PFC authors are discussing with each other, he is also PFC. PFC anytime stopped him to write anything about anybody?
Why he takes this cruel, violent approach that others should write about films and filmmakers he likes? What he is doing on a PASSSION FOR CINEMA site if he cant write about films and filmmakers he likes?
PFC has two parts, one part possesses authors who write on PFC but PFC does not control the content given in their posts, there is no moderation there. Anybody is free to write anything under the sun whatever is related with cinema. Though not all featured authors (film makers or people associated with film world) always write about films only.
Then comes the comment section where anybody belonging to any nation, religion, cast, colour, gender can comment on any post and if some comments are found objectionable only then PFC administrative section enters in to the moderation of the comments.
PFC has to be monitored round the clock by Administrative section and its relevant to mention that these administrators don’t earn their livelihood from cinema. Rather what they earn from their jobs, a major portion of that earning they spend on their passion towards cinema.
PFC can not CONTROL the MIND / THINKING / LIKING of commentators. PFCs role in terms of controlling the comments come in existence only when boundaries are crossed.
PFC cant force readers so that they start liking FILMS made by Mr SUPARN VERMA or filmmakers he personally likes.
How an intelligent mind can think that he will force others to change their opinion but he himself will not write anything on his own?
He has posted only 9 posts in 1 year time since he has joined PFC. He posted last time on 23rd march 2007 (not counting a post of July where he has simply reproduced Kishor Kumar’s Interview with Mr P. Nandi). We don’t know what kind of cinema he likes, what is his understanding about cinema. He is on a site devoted to cinema and he could not find a little time to post any thing of his own understanding in 6 months? How he can allege whole site and others then that they are not doing enough appreciation to the films he likes.
He has to voice his opinion whatever he likes and then it’s a chance people may accede with his view or may not.
He makes films, his bread and butter comes from that area. Cinema is his earning source and it suits to people like him to spend more and more time, dealing with areas/discussions related to cinema. But unlike him and other featured authors (The Cinema Persons), every other author present on PFC earns his/her bread and butter from other kind of jobs completely unrelated to cinema. Authors at PFC spend their energy, time and discuss films made by others. They give moral support to many film makers who wish to make good films. PFC’s authors give opportunities to film makers to see analysis of their past films. Its now up to film makers how they take this analysis.
Common PFCians dont earn anything from films and many of these guys spread films of hindi cinema all over the world where ever they live, sometimes by recommending them or sometimes they buy expensive DVDs of films and present them to their familiar foreigners to introduce these films to them. They are not doing it to earn money but they spend money to spread Indian cinema everywhere.
As a film maker if one has come to enjoy live blog like PFC then s/he must know that it has its own benefits and shortcomings. One has to be strong enough to bear comments showered by readers else net blog is not a thing for weak people.
Either one is having profound tales about life like Sudhir Mishra and Pavan Kaul have got through direct encounters with tough conditions in life, or one is humble and open like Onir, or one is restrained like Hansal, Ramu Ramanathan, or one is spontaneous in his reactions and does not care for results like Anurag Kashyap then only one can enjoy net based blogging else it can be troublesome because one’s own perceptions don’t work there. One has to handle many different kind of people and their psyche and if one has not got some power to remain calm inspite of turmoil coming through computer screen, one cant sustain on net. Many new featured authors on PFC are showing much balanced behaviour and hence future is bright for them.
Mr Suparn Verma is trying to control the audiences and blaming PFC if some audiences don’t like certain films made by certain filmmakers.
Again in his zest to make a post questioning integrity of PFC, he misses the important point that PFC is not funded either by Government agency or by any charitable institution. If he claims that he represents the Hindi film industry then also it has not contributed anything in making or running of PFC? PFC is not a public limited company where it should strictly be responsible towards everybody. Its run by hard earned money of someone and sweat and hard work of so many others.
Is PFC nurtured by same film industry or people belonging to same film industry? Is it established by cinema guys so that it can be blamed that its not justified towards certain film makers
Ofcourse it should follow a justified approach but that is more related with the ethics. He or anyone can’t force PFC to become SOMETHING.
Ghar ki Maryada :
PFC is a family and if somebody not belonging to PFC might have wrongly attacked him, we PFCians would have come in his support but he himself has attacked PFC and that too in open so he must get everything in open.
Where he will find such democracy that he does not write a post for months but he has liberty to see what authors are discussing with each other? PFC family gave him their confidence but he broke it twice.
Song has been there :
Dushman na kare dost ne wo kaam kiya hai…….
PFC is not LANKA where Rakshas gana have been gathered to spread evil things. If he thinks it’s a bad place he should leave the place. If he thinks he wishes to correct the place then why he never wrote in the support of films, filmmakers in whose side he is trying to paint a support. It’s a false support and seems opportunistic support.
He must write a post on KANK so that people know what they could not see in the film. Other PFC authors will also write on same film and lets see how film is analysed and who has analysed it in better way.
How a sane mind can blame PFC if Mr David Dhawan has not made any significant film (according to him), though he says Mr Dhawan can. If he can then he should make, who is stopping him? If Sachin can make runs but is not making then people are bound to criticise him. This is not PFC’s mistake if certain filmmaker is trapped in his success.
Audiences are not stupid. They cant give same respect to any film maker which they can give to a Mehboob, K Asif, Bimol Roy, Guru Dutt, Raj Kapoor, Chetan Anand, Vijay Anand, Hrishikesh Mukherjee, BR Chopra, Yash Chopra, Shyam Benegal, Mani Kaul, Govind Nihalani etc. If he complains that all filmmakers should be treated as Guru Dutt then better he considers again this pattern of thinking.
And whole his post hints towards one thing that perhaps he believes that film makers are obliging audiences by making films and they are doing it for the sake of art and not for the sake of business.
Nobody is going to buy a lesser quality product if he has to pay more than Rs 200 per person. He himself will not buy even a match box if its not good in quality.
PFC is a live place only when alive people write there. PFC has always been a place where not only David Dhawan and Satyajit Ray but Alfred Hitchcock and Dada kondke can also be discussed and and often people have discussed them at different or same posts. But it can not be seen if one does not want to see or if someone is searching excuse to accuse a place.
He mentions that we killed a Guru Dutt. Excuse us please! Who killed a Guru Dutt? Except Kaghaz ke Phhool, he got tremendous box office success and respect from the wider section of audience.
When he died then none of the PFCian was even born and we have been watching his films again and again.
RD Burman? Audience always loved him. It was a group of certain film makers which did not like his presence in films. It was this group which preferred to work with musicians promoted by Mafia and thus avoided music composers like Pancham Da.
Film Industry has blood of so many talented people on its existence. Audiences love and like to see Gulzar Saab’s films but its group of producers who don’t like to use his extraordinary directorial skills.
Some producer of Mr Verma’s film Industry is sitting on a film directed by biggest name of hindi cinema Mr Dilip Kumar. Producer is doing crime against films, film lovers and against talent of such a revered man. Did he ever bother to point fingers on such an ill mind producer?
Who made exit and subsequent oblivion of Ram Lal possible? Man, who composed so divine music for Geet Gaya Pattharon ne and Sehra was ignored by film makers. Who sent Ghulam Mohd. to live a life surrounded by acute poverty?
These things are done by predecessors of Mr Verma. Audiences always have loved and respected the talent.
Perhaps he lands at PFC seasonally and that too to check what is going on inside.
How his vigilant and observant eyes could not see that Black Friday was nowhere criticised but only at PFC. PFC remains the only place where Black Friday was criticised.
Otherwise how one is unable to see posts devoted to appreciation of Black.
has always praised a Silsila, Kanoon, Rajinigandha, Dhundh etc, kind of films belonging to different genere.
If some have criticised Dhoom 2 then one can find posts where same film is appreciated. Why his eyes always search and see negative posts only?
Who are in his “We” who could not understand genius of Mehmood’s films he directed or produced? Who gave him insight that any PFCian does not appreciate Mehmood and his extraordinary talent and work? Perhaps he himself did not like his films. We have quoted many many times Mehmood saab’s work in appreciative manner.
Only a good director who has ears for good music can keep such a wonderful lulaby ( aa ree aa ja ninidya tu le chal kahin urhankhotole par dur dur yahan se dur) in his film.
Who are “We” who don’t appreciate Govinda’s acting abilities? We don’t find anyone on PFC who does not accept talent of any talented man. Difference may be that he finds a crap film like Zulm Ki Hukumat as a good film of Govinda and many of us can say that Govinda toched different boundaries in Hatya and Shikari. If I recall this is the same film then Zulm ki Hukumat remains a film where Paresh Rawal played most irresponsible beahviour in his entire film career or life. He commited moral crime. He did not feel any hitch to deliver dialogues lifted directly from discourses of Osho and director misused such profound discourses in so maligned manner.
Perhaps he does not have time to see posts and it may be coincidence whenever he landed here he found something which he does not like. But an intelligent person should consider lack of evidence before starting accusation.
May be its wrong but it seems that just to fulfill his personal agenda he has targeted PFC or he is targeting some other thing and taking resort of PFC otherwise no sensible filmmaker will write what he has written in his post.
Kahin pe nigahein kahein pe nishana ?
Perhaps he wished to target some film makers but its sad he selected platform of PFC for his motive.
He has been wandering here since last one year and still so much misunderstanding and misinterpretation about the place? In this time even blinds learn how to walk ahead without any support as they become too familiar with the place.
As he is not responsible what a commentator writes on posts of Mr “X” same way noone is responsible for comments made by readers. If he can guide readers to comments in such a way which he likes then he should do it but he should not allege PFC for what it has not done.
It’s a sad day.
In PFCians he may find bigger fans of Amitabh Bachchan, Yash Chopra, Guru Dutt, Raj Kapoor etc than he ever can be.
Does he discuss outside of his family what he has been discussing with his family members about something? PFC is also a family and to reveal what some members say in their leisure moments is breaking the rules of a family.
He has done it twice and it suggests he never accepted PFC as his family. Perhaps he is searching Fans here.
I have found many times PFCians praising his work in Chhal etc. But if he wishes that based on EKEH if audiences start giving him respect they give to Yash Chopra then its like living in dreams.
Audience never can give same respect to directors of Dhol, Dhamal the films he has quoted which they give to Yash Chopra. He or anybody will have to do body of work Mr Chopra has done qualitatively and quantitatively also. Same principle applies to any new film maker.
If he is thinking audience of less than 25 years would like KANK as they had liked DDLJ, or to some extent KKHH then perhaps he is living in misunderstandings. One has to be sensible enough to guess that which age group is criticising a film. On internet you cant know the age. But then one has to be tolerant.
No good reason is found behind his impulsive and impatient reactionary post.
He has insulted a place and people belonging to this place who have been admiring him for more than one year.
This is very sad.
How fortunate PFC would have been if Mr Verma could have played the role of an unbiased critic. Till he is writing on PFC he is making PFC what it is and certainly today PFC has become a negative place but because of his biased post.
This is an internet era and if somebody has copied a film then so many people will register their remarks that this film is based on so and so film. If film maker who is honest in his making and approach is declaring himself that its a copied film then why others need to say it? Only white collar thieves can feel offended by such remarks.
He had written long comment on SAL’s post also. This is not necessary that everybody would treat such a film as classic. Now media has quoted Mr Sanjay Gupta , who is one of the producer of the film, saying that Director Apoorva Lakhia had canned crap shots now how can a post production work can make a good film out of crap shots?
Why he should be angry if some people call it a crap film?
Then people may have other reasons also to criticise such films. Sanjay Dutt is so elder than me but after watching SAL I felt to slap him. There is a scene where Sanjay Dutt being ACP or whatever boasts before a journalist that no policemen will be harmed and when his assistant offered him bullet proof jacket then he refuse to take it and goes ahead without having any protection.
Such a nonsensical behaviour by the character of a senior police officer ? This ACP was made of Poly Carbonate or what so that bullets would not affect him? Only crap films can have such cheap scenes?
Sanjay Dutt is son of Mr Sunil Dutt. I respected his father and hence I care for Sanjay Dutt and thus I wish that he wakes from sleep and starts making films like his father made. He belongs to a family where still his sister is a MP and he behaves, no matter on screen even, in such a tapori manner even in the role of an ACP? It was sad to see Sanjay Dutt playing role of an IPS officer in such a manner. When producer/director etc claim that film is based on true events and real life characters then there should be atleast ordinary understanding about how things work in real life. Was he playing regular fictionary Police officer and had liberty to show nonsense dialogue based heroism?
If we point out such craps in the films he mentioned then PFC becomes a bad place for Mr Suparn Verma?
Sorry but he is searching flatterers, sycophants, which I fear, he wont find here on Internet based blogs.
He is unable to understand the difference between crowd gathered at PFC and audience having no exposure to outside life than their village/city. He is demanding people watching daily a film by Godard, Polanski, Fellini, Hitchcock, Bergman, David Lean, Kubrick, Ray, Ghatak, Guru Dutt, Bimal Roy, Raj Kapoor, Shyam Benegal, Mani Kaul, Govind Nihalani, Vijay Anand, Chetan Anand, Hrishkesh Mukhrjee etc etc to sing with him the praises to films coming from recycled factories?
He is unable to see that PFC is not a proper place to advocate low quality and low expectations oriented products.
He is unable to see that due to internet, an era has been finished where myths used to prevail that a single thing is popular at all the places. Things have been divided in to segments and one group of people may like one thing totally disliked by other group of people and both group of people may belong to same era, same place.
Sorry Mr Verma’s post is insulting and he is unable to see that first comment comes from Oz himself and like it always happens on PFC, his post is also discussed like any other post though his post spits on PFC.
Its always about good films, bad films and average films and not commercial or non commercial films because every single film is a commercial film because one motive is to generate revenue. Whoever will give us a good film will get praise.
There is a scene in Amitabh Bachchan starrer Mein Azad Hun, where Anupam Kher the rich sugar mill owner says threats to workers who are following a strike that after siren whoever will not enter the gates of sugar mill, he will not be part of the sugar mill and he will not give their rights and if noone enters the gate he will not feel any hitch in closing the mill.
Amitabh Bachchan says to workers that they have two ways before them. One is easy path where they can go inside and can live life by suppressing will to get their rights and second path is hard as that requires a strong determination not to succumb before the evil.
Easy path is always followed by many.
But fact remains, every good businessman in the world understands the difference between a sycophant and a real doer. This is different that sometimes they just allow sycophants to spend time in saying good words about them, this way they get feel good feeling and sycophants thinks they have become close to these powerful people.
Those who understand the market especially film producers go for either saleable person or capable person who can make good films for them who may become commercially viable also.
And in the last PFC is a collective word and it contains sensitivity of each and every member and regular readers who take out time and participate in discussion and so many times make comments more profound than the posts themselves.
If anyone has problem that PFC is not doing this and that then please take first step and write in favour of what you like but don’t accuse the place. Don’t take resort of PFC to hit somewhereelse.
PFC Azad hai and will always be.
86 Responses to “Is not it character assassination trial on PFC by Mr Suparn Verma”
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Very very hard hitting… It touches many fronts and above all clearly lines out that if one reads PFC one should remember they are reading “one individual” and not the entire 1,277 posts and close to 25,000 comments each of them different, varied, divergent than the other. Simply saying PFC is siding with one cinema or against one kind of cinema is stupid, obnoxious and simply untrue. First read everything on PFC on that topic… I’m sure the collective sum of all views in posts / comments on that topic and see there exists only two kinds of cinema on PFC - Good Cinema and Bad Cinema… no matter who’s making it. Each of these views is brought by the readers, commenters, authors on PFC… SO WHAT YOU READ ON PFC is THE COLLECTIVE OUTPUT OF THE READERS AND AUTHORS.
I found some valid points in Suparn’s article and kept mum on some… thanks for this RK…
Suparn please take ” Na kahu se dosti, na kahu se bair” approach…
just one question Rk…
does this really need a separate post? seems u are reacting to suparn’s post…
and did i really miss something? i dont think suparn insulted anybody thru his post…
*clap clap clap clap*
DPac, if you as an editor think this should not be a post, please remove it… or atleast try ;)
I didn’t even read Suparn’s post because as a preference, I skip the camp-bashing posts when there is so many other constructive discussions happening.
RK, I respect your deep views on cinema, but I couldn’t read through this post completely. Why give something so much footage. PFC is doing much more important stuff each hour.
Let it be a democratic selection.
@RK & Oz
Your love for PFC shines through. But this is what Suparn is saying -
“Today PFC is a movement, not a bunch of guys with a fixed notion of what cinema should be like. So lets move and make space for lovers of all types of cinema. Let a Govinda fan put his arm around a Pankaj Kapur fan and hang out and have a cutting. We already have enough divides and biases in the real world. At least keep them out off the movies”
All he is saying is, constructively argue/ discuss /form a consensus (if impossibly possible) about cinema and lets not bitch for the sake of bitching, holding forth from our personal biases about a person or his sexuality.
To me, his article clearly stated - “lets not cross the line from being fans to being clans”.
I dont see how it is biased. He has a right (the same right that you are pointing out) to express his opinion on the masala-makers and their role in the film industry and he has done so. He has just tried to make a case for them AND .. included an appeal to all PFC-visitors-commenters-members not to indulge in biases.
Am I being wrong here ?
RK…cud not agree more.Thank god,somebdy took the issue head on and m glad that its sombdy as sensible as “u”. agree with every single word of urs.
what i have written on suparn’s post will say the same, its not US vs them. its just our cinema vs their cinema. we cant do anything if we dont like their cinema. but that doesnt mean that we r against them. if a chak de comes then we all cheer for it also.
wrote a long comment on suparn’s post also. i still dont understand how can u say that industry runs cz of those crappy films. if there were not there then something else wud hav been there. that doesnt justify all those supershit. And by that logic,to let the industry work more n in a better way we should make only those money making films.
Dpac,
when comment becomes longer than post and it contains wider prospectives then we should make a separate post. Its not regarding Suparn only. Its about general accusation against PFC.
so as an editor you may decide. if you feel it should be as a comment, please remove it and post on Suparns post. I have no objection. as motive is people should read and many have read.:)
@Tushar,
please Never do this mistake again. what you have not read, never comment on that. that may lead you in problems. Its like signing a document without reading it.:-?
I think we are talking many different roles, issues, actors (not the cine kind but the ones who take action here), recipients and it is quite complex, each one is looking a different angle even if it’s the same whole thing, and feeding off it in very different ways
Ahh just when I thought I could get some insight into Suparn in the lets-shout-zindabad-to-degenerates-with-gay-abandon thread another one pops up..i guess i’ll post it here again.
Hey Suparn, why support a system that exists in its own incestuous den oblivious to the real world with real people,why sing the praise of dissolute hacks who insult with contempt the intelligence of eager movie goers who sustain this bloody industry.
This is the last chance to get this right before another generation becomes disillusioned and turned off by this ridiculous circus.Soon movies as entertainment would be dead with access to interactive games and the rest ..that is there won
@Turtle,
will reply you on monday in detail.
For now, if PFC is movement then Suparn has been part of it, why he did not participate in its journeyx and guided whenever it (according to him) swayed away.
You need to read his post again to read between the lines. if everything was so transparent we did not need to write this one.
Bravo RK, that was a stinging slap on the face. I personally find this kind of labelling ridiculuous. I mean why the hell should i watch a movie just to prove something. I hate Himesh Reshamiya, does that make me elitist or snobbish, hell, yaar i hate him coz i feel his voice sucks simple and period. I dont like KJo or Yash Raj movies, not because i am snobbish or i hate commercial movies, just that i find many of their movies plain boring.
I mean forget it yaar RK, why the hell should i justify to some 1 what kind of movie i watch. At the end of the day, its me shelling out the money to watch the movie and its my prerogative to watch what i feel like. Why should some 1 dictate that i watch X kind of movie? Isn’t there some thing called personal choice?
Rk bhai…
idhar editing ki baat kab aayi??
just felt that suparns post- however misinformed it was- didnt really require a ‘post’ reply
but then thats just me talking..
its ur blog.. u felt offended.. u r free to air ur opinion..
lets us not get bogged down by this though
@ Travis
Well im currently in Korea now since last couple of months, and did see some Korean movies. They are pretty good, well made, and i guess this year a Korean movie is tipped to be a front runner in the Oscars.
Many of the Korean movies are highly influenced by European narrative technique though. I guess OldBoy is already a known name thanks to Zinda.
Some of the more popular movies of Korea i know to date
My Sassy Girl- a rom com with a different narrative
Taegukgi- Against backdrop of Korean war
Shiri - A 1999 movie about a group of North koreans trying to stage a coup in S.Korea. It outperformed most of the Hollywood movies at that time.
what a boring and lenthy essay man.
What verma said was simple and up to point.
I am reading this blog first time.read the verma article in some other blog.
“And that blog has idea that guys in PFC are frustarted kinda guys”
Look like he was right
Havent read many hard hitting posts than this one RK bhai..and you have vrought in soo many valid points here…PFC doesnt expect its authors to sing priases of PFC in their posts..infact we dont appreciate that…but then you point fingers at PFC without actually following what is going on is not appreciated in the same breath…and then why force people to like this and that…if they like it they like it…if they dont they dont…
Good point RK bhai
Dude Akshat, we r not bored and frustrated guys, most of us are regular professionals here with a passion for movies,nothing more and nothing less. And movies are bound to be slammed and liked in turn. And thats what PFC is meant for. To suggest that we should not criticize some kinda movie makers smacks of a dictatorial attitude.
@Akshant…
I remmeber a seminar by Swami Vivekananda…he puts a dot on a white board and asks people..what do you see…everyone answers a black dot…but everyone conviniently forgets all the white surrounding the black dot….
you say this is the first time u r coming on pfc…how the eff can you pass such a rude judgement…and if you dont like this place..no one is holding your balls to stay in here..look elsewhere
@RK .. will await your reply.
I will reiterate, though, that Suparn (as per my interpretation of his write-up and he can of course, confirm or deny) is accusing some of us (vistors, commentors - not PFC as a website) of being biased and getting clannish and bitchy.
He is accusing us of coloring an argument or a discussion with our personal (personal as in relating to specific persons) biases, from where one cannot have a rational argument.
If I say ‘KANK is good or bad for so and so reasons - character graph, cinematography, acting, direction’ and the other person says ‘KANK is bad because Karan Johar is gay’ - thats not even an argument - because these two statements are on completely different wavelengths.
I would think there is nothing else between the lines. But again, let me await your reply. :)
cool Ratnakar
Yes you are right about them following european narrative techniques …its the first thing i noticed in oldboy.
In aussie TV they have Korean movie night on wednesdays going on at the moment..
I guess countries which don’t have prolific film making traditions like India start off following a more subtle european style.
What is the distinctive narrative style of Indian movie or lets say hindi movies?
@ Travis
If u speak of India, hmm i think to be honest we had the most diverse movie culture
Bimal Roy- Totally rooted in European tradition, especially the Italian neo realist style, but mixing it up with the Indian narrative of song n dance.
Guru Dutt-Again a lot of European influence on his movies. Lot of focus on light and shadow.
Raj Kapoor- Over the top, ostentatious, Hollywood style. Inspite of Jaagte Raho or Boot Polish, most of his movies, had that spectacle quotient in place.
K.Asif, Mehboob Khan, Sohrab Modi- Heavily influenced by the Cecil B De Mille kind of epic movie making.
Raj Khosla- Now this was a director who could go from a totally noirish style(CID) to a Hitchcockian kind of thriller( Mera Saaya, Anita) to a Gothic suspense kind of movie( Woh Kaun Thi), or a road movie( Ek Musafir Ek haseena) to a conventional thriler stuff(Kala Pani), he later branched out into more mainstream stuff, but i still believe he is one of the more underrated directors.
Again most of Dev Anand movies were distinctively Hollywoodish,heavily influenced by the 40-50 noir genre, of the lonely cynical hero with grey shades. In fact where Raj Kapoor ended up playign Charlie Chaplin, and Dilip Kumar the tragic hero, Dev contrary to his romantic image, came out with some really excellent performances in movies like Kala Bazar, taxi Driver, Jaal, Kaala Paani, none of em were the conventional boy meets girl kinda movies.
Another director who fascinated me for his ability to switch genres was B.R.Chopra, to date he has made two of the best thrillers Dhund and Kanoon. As well as social dramas like Sadhana, love triangles like Gumrah and conventional mainstream fare like Naya Daur.
So if u ask me i think Indian movie was a mixture of styles, some adapted from European cinema, some from Hollywood, and mixed it up with the Indian nautanki tradition of song n dance.
RK where in my post was I bashing PFC? Coz bashing PFC would be like hitting myself on the head wouldn’t it? I mean u may think that since I didn’t write in between for a long time I wasn’t contributing to its growth or direction, but my friend I have been following it on a daily basis and been in touch with Oz all through out.
Secondly my reaction or post had no ‘in between the lines’ as u have mentioned I said what I had to say quiet clearly, and it wasn’t aimed inwards it was more of an outward reaction.
One doesn’t talk/discuss cinema and Hindi cinema in particular just on PFC, we don it on a daily basis outside too.
There is an eltist tendency to look down on Hindi commercial cinema and have snide swipes any chance people get in the outside world (non PFC)
I said my outburst was prompted by something I read here doesn’t mean the whole post was dedicated for PFC.
Pal I started with a low budget film in 2001 when there was only ONE multiplex in India called Fame Adlabs in Lokhandwala and the only two success stories in low budget Indie cinema that time were Satya and Chandani Bar.
The perception was make the film cheap make money on the table and get out forget about marketing the film etc.
Talking about speaking between the lines RK pls elaborate “May be its wrong but it seems that just to fulfill his personal agenda he has targeted PFC or he is targeting some other thing and taking resort of PFC otherwise no sensible filmmaker will write what he has written in his post.”
What personal agenda would that be?
You yourself said people are free to express an opinion out here, I expressed mine, too bad you took it personally pal, I wasn’t having an internal discussion here, we have the Club for that.
When I say ‘we killed Guru Dutt’ bro u and I were wearing nappies then atleast I was, so instead of taking it so literally maybe you would have realised I wasn’t talking to you or anyone at PFC ditto for RD Burman or Mehmood.
But neglect of that generation did kill them.
Lastly in the few posts that I have written I also wrote a post called The End of PFC, maybe you need to read it again before you question me or my motives.
Nuff said:)
Turtle this is what my post was meant for
“Let a Govinda fan put his arm around a Pankaj Kapur fan and hang out and have a cutting.
We already have enough divides and biases in the real world.
At least keep them out off the movies”
My only motive being if you are a fan of Joginders trashy D grade cult films don’t worry say it proudly just say proudly we can say that HKA is one of the best films of last ten years and no one will beat you down for saying it.
It wasn’t meant to be political at all
@Travis
In fact what i loved about Indian movie in the 70’s and early 80’s was its ability to accomodate diverse genres, so for every Amar Akbar Anthony or Muqaddar Ka Sikandar, there was a Choti Si Baat or Rajni Gandha. Sholay and Ankur could share the same screen space.
And thats what i pointed out during that time, actors could switch between genres, jumping Jack Jeetu and dream girl Hema, could go for a total make over in Khushboo and Kinara. For every countless maar dhaad movie of Dharam Paaji, there was also a Dillagi or Chupke Chupke or Satyakam. At the height of his superstardom, Rajesh Khanna would still appear in an off beat Aavishkar or Ittefaq.
U know yesterday during the discussion on George Clooney, i had forgotten to mention our own Clooney, Shashi Kapoor, he acted in so many forgettable commercial potboilers during the 70’s and yet he ploughed back that money into producing movies like Junoon, Kalyug, Vijeta. I think the failure of Ajooba, put him off movies for good, as also the death of his wife Jennifer. Sad, because he was one producer not afraid to really push the enevelope.
Ratnakar he did Perfect murder after that I think, and I had heard a passing rumour that V Bharadwaj wanted Shashi Kapoor to play Pankaj Kapur’s role in Maqbool. If you get a chance see New Delhi Times
@Suparn
yeah i did watch NDT and to date it remains a really underrated movie for me. I am a guy of the 70’s and 80’s and have some idea of the movies of that period, thats why i hate it when people diss movies of that time.
Movies of the 70’s and 80’s were technically tacky for sure, but many of em had really good storylines and scripts. To date Kalyug remains one of my fav Shashi Kapoor movies as a producer. I guess having burnt his fingers with Ajooba, he did not venture further into direction.
Ratnakar I think Prakash Jha’s Rajniti has elements of Kalyug, Mahabharat in politics methinks
Could be Suparn, have no idea of that movie, Kalyug was of course a corporate kind of Mahabharat. Hmm, one thought, how many movies we have based on Mahabharat themes?
One movie which comes straight to my mind is Mani’s Dalapati, which was based on the friendship between Duryodhan and Karna.
Hmm folks any other movies u can think of.
Thanks Ratnakar..that’s interesting.
Why don’t you do a write up , a timeline of hindi movies and their stylistic influences or may be milestones of change in narrative and story, from your perspective.
It could be the impetus for a good discussion..Too much of Suparn bashing might turn us into Suparn clones… God Forbid
:d
@Travis
Thats a good idea, i really feel like doing so, considering the way most of us overlook the sheer diversity and complexity of Hindi movies and its influences. It can make for a really good discussion for sure. and it can shatter many preconceived notions also.
Hmm guess anyway its time to wave the white flag with Suparn :d, i am having a good discussion with him right now :d/
Ratnakar I didn’t realise we were at war:) I mean we were exchangin ideas wasn’t it?
@ suparn
he he, that was meant for Travis :d , yaar anyway hota hai, discussions mein kabhi kabhi, but honestly i am enjoying the discussion with u.
Ratnakar btw if u like poltics get u hands the House of Cards tilogy about this conniving Iago like senior British politician BRILLIANT BRILLIANT BRILLIANT
Hmm thanks for the reco Suparn, i do love these political movies, well try to see.
to dono mein dosti ho gayi??? ^:)^
Where can I get a DVD of new delhi times ?
I remember, one day in my childhood, when me and my sister were not allowed to talk or shout or play in the house, because Doordarshan was airing New Delhi Times and my parents were glued to the TV like a fevicol ad. :)
Abbe yaar Mohit, jab dushmani hi nahin thi, tho dosti hone ki kya baat hai :d
lol… sunkar achchha laga wo kehte hain na..
” Mogambo Khush Hua…” :))
@Mohit
Mogambo khush, hum bhi khush, dukhi hue George Bush :))
I don’t understand why the author has to believe that Suparn Verma is targetting PFC. I’m sure Suparn Verma is scared that PFC MIGHT turn into a forum of film-bitching from a forum of film-celebration, so he made his post. The fact that he posted this on PFC proves his love for PFC and the fact that he is doing all he can to prevent any POSSIBLE rot on pfc. Give him his due, guys.
It’s like being accused of being anti-India just because I say there are too many pot-holes in the roads here…
Devayon, we cant love anything blindly, if India has potholes its has, if there are many bad movies in India there are… if the movie is bad, it takes lot of courage to celebrate it, and I guess PFC is more of exchanging the thoughts be it lovely or hate filled, we have to take them. We can just keep on celebrating movie just because somebody is making them.
I agree, as long as we don’t target the ’somebody’ who makes the film. Judge the movie, the moviemaker’s skills, but not the moviemaker himself.
Suparn: Nice answer! RK, chill…respectable families don’t fight with each other… :D
Awesome post Masterji!
When it was needed the most!
RK, while I appreciate the emotions that you have invested in your post, I believe Suparn’s post and his intentions deserve a tad more respect. In my opinion, Suparn’s post was plea to avoid criticism of mainstream cinema for the sake of rhetorical flourish. A plea which if left unheeded could make PFC a less inclusive forum. While we might believe we have had multiple occasions to celebrate mainstream cinema as identified by Suparn, let’s not forget that positioning of this platform like any other lies in minds of the consumer. And yes, there are lot of them out there who feel this forum panders to base ‘group-think’ when it comes to certain kind of cinema. Criticism for the sake of criticism.
Yes, there are a million other fora for “them” - the commercialized peddlers of celluloid dreams, the alleged merchants of artistic sensibilities -but we have a simple choice here: do we fall into the trap of defining our identity as an antithesis to “them” and thereby reducing ourselves to a spitting image of “them” or do we stand for what we support and believe in without seeking the crutches of mere rhetorics.
Suparn’s post is as much a mirror to ourselves as the image we see of PFC when we come here. To attribute any other intention to it is living in denial; further, to seek to stifle that voice or to question its locus standi is the greatest injustice we can do to this community. It ain’t fashionable to quote Mao these days, yet, “let a hundred flowers bloom.”
- Subrat
@Subrat. I rather feel the opposite of what you say in your first para about rhetorical flourish is the in-thing nowadays. Its actually a double-edged sword. Just like you said that many main stream films are sneered at for the sake of rhetorics, I rather found that there is a reverse trend nowadays to use rhetorics (in the word of felliniesque) as a means to systematic trash-ification of any so called good or bad art movies. The first thing I see on both posts and comments is to associate fellini/or-for-that-matter-any-arty kind of movies with intellectual snobbery or pseudo-intellectualism. That’s the favourite term. However, I also believe that it is a thin line and should best left to the posters and commenters to decide.
phew! here is an emotional discussion. RK… good post… makes me feel like arguing with you… debating with the commenters… that is healthy…
however, RK, i don’t see any motive in suparn’s post… i refuse to watch a KJ film because i cannot handle the soapy shit… but thats a choice I make… there are millions out there who flock the theatres to watch the same soapy crap and that is their choice… similarly suparn is providing an opinion that is debatable but definitely not worthy of being labelled as motivated or accusational. just like a KJ and RGV can co-exist so can a suparn co-exist with say a hansal. i would love to applaud a good work of cinema irrespective of which ‘camp’ makes it… similarly i applaud opinion on PFC… it is important to have a point of view… it is important to introspect and not get defensive/derisive. being so will only limit the forum to ‘yes men’ and make it a forum for sychophants… let us agree to disagree…
(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
vajraadapi kathoraani mriduuni kusumaadapi
lokottaraNaam cetaamsi konu vaj~natumarhati
^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^
Let peace prevail!!!!:P…Lets give peace a chance @ PFC.[-o<
RK: though your post has some valid points, i am also agreed to suparn’s some of the points like:
film industry is not just actors, directors and producers or a handful of technicians.
It is thousands of character actors, junior artistes, dancers, thousands of daily wage workers who are not just lightmen but carpenters, van guys, dressmen, make up men, spotboys, there are industries within industries which keep working on multiple films.
Govinda is one of the awesomest actors we have and we nearly threw him out off the industry. Besides comedy if anyone doubts his histrionic abilities watch a film called Zulm Ki Hukumut, a Godfather remake, with a B grade title, but a great watch.
Today a majority of the members of PFC represent the underdogs of Hindi cinema, which is a great thing, never has there ever been such support for the niche filmmakers. But why do it by creating a Us Vs Them scenario?
I don
RK….such a waste of time and energy this. And in spite of all my disagreement with Suparn, in no way did I find his post “insulting”.
I found this post all the more in bad light because Suparn did come back to respond to all the brickbats on his post. And his POV seemed perfectly logical, though not the universal truth.
This article though, however well-intentioned it may be, looks like a surefire winner when it comes to character assassination.
How come Govinda being eulogized in this pandemonium. He is an average actor. Giving him more credit than he deserves will ensue PFC falling in the same trap designed by some and his elk.
Omprakash..how can you say that Govinda is an average actor..he has pulled many a poor movie to average success by his ability..even today people willingly spend RS.200 to willingly go and see his movie and that can’t be said for many actors!!
Ultimately, movie is about somebody viewing it..
ok ok…. lets stop this… BTW did u hear that Academy of Motion Picture and Sciences just said that the time is running out for the Indian entry… so… should we forget Eklavya or Dharm going into the Oscars…???
Billion ki ladai i believe… :o)
@OM
Thats what you are doing OM.Just Looking at black spot and not white around.
Verma’s Post simply asked you all to see white around it
@Tushar (=6)
Sorry (other day), was in hurry, and could not reply you properly. The stand you have taken, is pushing to discuss about a film. Thanks for reminding that film. That is very appropriate film to discuss in such circumstances. Hope to get time in coming days. :)
@Turtle (=7, 21),
You are right about following (always) healthy discussion. If you have been a regular (visitor/participant) here at PFC then you might have seen and might have observed the difference between person and person.
Hope you will get few answers to your curiosities in responses to Suparn, which I will make after responding to other commentators, as that will take time.
But in short as I had replied you on Friday also, Suparn has been an important part of PFC and as he himself has quoted that he has been observing PFC on daily basis so these two things dont go along.its a common expectation from him that he might have seen the realities. 1% of a huge body will alywas remain 1% only and we cant define anything in totallity on the basis of this 1%. If we concentrate on this 1% only and define things on this basis then we insult rest 99%.
This is not positive. Rest in response to him.
:)
————–
as I observe you have shown interest in New Delhi Times,
May be you like to read about it in the archive of PFC,
http://passionforcinema.com/new-delhi-times-1986-a-fine-political-drama/
@Akshat (=17,57),
Suparn has not published only this post, please read his other posts also and read other posts made by others also.
Once you spend some time on PFC and observe somethings , then comment and then your valuable feedback will help us.
As of now you are simply responding on the basis of two posts only and matter is not confined to these two posts only. So please have patience.:)
@Subrat,
Brother thanks for your comment. We two will discuss this topic again on 15.03.2008.
You are right about mirror thing. And self introspection is a must thing.
And we are not following Nagpur or Polit buroe kinda trends, so we do it in open.
Comments, dealing with this introspection, have been existing on various posts.
Inspite of these comments and various posts dealing with such introspection, some people, as you also have mentioned, preserve certain perceptions about PFC.
Now being PFCian in which role we should act?
Feeling guilty, for the matters which we dont do and it lies in their perception only, or say clearly whats the truth?
I find second way appropriate and hence doing same.:)
@Hansal(49),
Thanks for your valuable comment.
I have mentioned in the post itself that Suparn made many good points but few things damaged his post. He made a post having some views about PFC and I made a post dealing with his views.
That should be fair.
I believe like many of PFCians that different kind of people with different likings have been co existing since its inception. I go for my own experience and if I can exist on such forum then I believe that if someone thinks that PFC has been partial to some people then its based on misunderstanding and misinterpretation.
By the way, I read your comment no.150 on Suparn’s post and thats the comment which proves my belief.
You wrote what you believe and what your heart and mind finds as truth and we can see you, Anurag, and NoVaDJ all three are co existing on PFC.
Why we are stuck on views only. why we dont see that you all three guys got freedom to speak up whatever you guys thought to say?
PFC is the name of this freedom. Why we should expect that NoVaDJ should always believe in whatever Anurag Kashyap says or why you should say.
You found Anurag Kashyap’s approach wrong and you voiced against his views and approach. Is not it healthy? People handle each other here.
So can we say PFC is biased towards anyone, you, Anurag or NoVaDJ?
Can we draw this conclusion?
NoVaDJ may have biased views.
Anurag Kashyap may have biased views.
You may have biased views.
I may have biased views.
BUT dont we find other people producing counter arguments to our views (biased or impartial whatever).
When both kind of views are present then how PFC is biased. These are views of individuals and should be seen as such. Perhaps we fear to categorize people thats why we take this approach of hidden attack when problem has been boling so long inside us.
If we find something wrong at a given time and we are part of that thing at that time, this is our responsibility to say it.
Nobody is more or less important part of PFC. Only due to our perception we make these impressions.
We may like a particular person on personal basis but is it necessary or possible that common readers will also follow our liking?
—
Thanks again for participating in this important discussion.:)
@Suparn, (1)
I will be responding you in parts.
—-
First, forgive me for giving you any kind of pain.
Response is late and it certainly increases the pain. Who am I, (as a human being), to try to ask other human being to correct himself? Each has its individualistic life……, understanding.
Forgive me in advance also as following response again may give some pain to you. Because its not necessary that whatever I will write that will reach to you in exactly same form even if there is no middleman between us. Sign language may give same meaning to all the users but words don
@Suparn, (2)
This place has always been a place where a fan of Satyajit Ray and a fan of David Dhawan can co exist at same time. But this is a violent approach to expect that every Ray Fan should start liking David Dhawan’s films or vice versa. There are lot of chances, some may like both, some may be selective.
and both kind of fans can say against each other’s filmmakers but till they are getting a place where their views are not stopped its democrarcy and a beautiful democracy.
Many progress in life and really many will be there for whom meaning of cinema will be different and they will feel ashamed that they simply wasted their time in watching Dhol kind of films as they could not do any progress in terms of film viewing.
A David Dhawan may be making a lot of money out of his films which are mostly recycled films but he is not going to support a Mr “X” coming to Bombay from Kashmir or HP or UP with dream in eyes and a convincingly good story in hands. The guy will have to struggle a lot just to have entry in the office of David Dhawans (no offence meant, name is used in a generalized manner, as you have used this name). Then there are chances he will be ridiculed like Rajat Kapur and gang used to ridicule singing talent in Bheja Fry.
Let PFC be one such place where these dreamy and small film makers may breath.
Let PFC be the place where they can showcase their talent before the world and may be they get their dreams fulfilled one day.
Nobody has ever stopped anyone to write on films made by anyone. But this is sheer violence to expect that others should write and praise what we like. Ofcourse we may try and try is the name of posting our articles. If people like then may be changes come in to the picture.
–
And once published on net, nobody can stop others to react to the articles.
Many sites have this policy that comments are posted after approval and often after moderation. Till recently your erstwhile site Rediff had this policy. Authors had liberty to post anything but commentators never had that liberty.
Shekhar Kapur’s website is there where one can post comment on his posts but they are approved by moderator.
Unlike these heavily controlled sites, PFC provides open atmosphere and anyone can comment on anything.
If you go back to read your one of the post “F*** of the century” then you will realise that there also you have tried to beat everybody with same stick. On net you cant have this “Holier Than Thou” approach because anybody can come and try to do samething to you what you are trying to do with others.
When you write in general terms “We” , please be specific, that you meant by people belonging to “film world” and if you want to really opt revolutionary approach like your burning titles then it wont be bad idea to name the people because beating benind the bush does not help as then people think he may be talking about somebodyelse.
People normally dont F*** when somebody is down but when they see that somebody is taking resort of hypocricy only then they try to pull down a person. Collective consciousness may work most of the time for justice.
When you say that Suraj Barjatya was ridiculed when his film was flopped and Vivah’s success sent them in shock.
When you mention this then you have to mention that you are talking about your own filmi people as this is prerogative of audience to love “Vivah” and dislike “MPKDH”.
BTW,
here you get to see coverage of Vivah and Dhoom2, two main stream films on PFC. you dont need to waste time on reading , just for references.
http://passionforcinema.com/vivah-%E2%80%93-suraj-r-barjatya-regains-synchronization-with-his-kind-of-cinema/
http://passionforcinema.com/dhoom-2-yash-raj-films-expanding-its-made-in-india-seal/
Am I ridiculing these films. and then many had covered these films on PFC and ofcourse everybody had different take.
This cant happen that PFC releases a collective analysis and declare every film as very good film as then purpose of PFC is not fulfilled.
—- contd—-
@Suparn, (3)
If film making is a tough job then if not equally tough, running a site like PFC is not an easy job either. And it is not a defined job so that money can be taken from market because there is no other source of earning than to shell out expenses from personal pockets.
and then heavy work to monitor it round the clock.
Whole lot of hard work has been invested in making what PFC looks today. No weekends, no socialising, no other work than to look PFC and its functioning, reduced hours of sleep, reduced hours of relaxation etc have been hiding behind the existence of PFC.
And these efforts are not done to fulfil the sole mission of demeaning few Hindi film makers, or so called commercial hindi cinema. Nobody destroy above mentioned luxuries to destroy or demean something and that too for a long time.
As you being a film maker will be finding so many
disliking towards your fellow film maker/s but you will not say it because you will fear that you may offend him same way few times PFC also suffer from this syndrom. One may cross the boundaries but if that is not very big then policies are not shown to him as Yellow card.
On one hand you will find people repeating that they cant stand SRK, but on same site you will find
http://passionforcinema.com/the-man-who-saw-tomorrow/
http://passionforcinema.com/srk-successful-saleable-reliable-khan-1/
http://passionforcinema.com/shahrukh-khan-successer-of-ab-in-kbc/
and many more posts have been dealing with SRK and his films and his matters.
It never can happen that whole universe will start liking SRK as it cant happen that SRK will be liking everything on PFC or every PFCian.
Rather you should see if you like every PFCian?
You will certainly be having your preferences.
Same way some people may have their preferences and it can be a habit that when ever SRK is mentioned they register that they cant stand him as an actor.
even films dont work alike in whole of India. In some states same film perform better and in some it performs badly. That is not taken as that people of those states are personally against SRK.
But we have to see the bigger collective picture.
Is it bitching?
Nobody can take care of individuals what they are saying, thinking, behaving and thats why we say exceptions are there.
we have to see collective picture.
—— contd—
@Suparn, (4)
You had registered protest on Oz
@Suparn, (5)
Now SLB,
What do you do when it is Election time in your state or in India as such? Dont you discuss who is good and who will do better? Its a common human tendancy to speculate.
When people are gathered then they have to talk and it can be simply gossip. Can we make conclusions on the basis of these gosips.
What difference does that make if some say its inspired from some Italian film?
Now Sawariya is so big budget film, but people did not leave Manorama, before its proper release many had started saying that its inspired by China Town. Did you write Navdeep Singh Zindabad in your title?
Its a myth that Mr Bhansali’s vast vision will impress western audience like Ang Lee’s CTHD had done. Its a chance. Many small budget films have attracted the westeren audience. There never is any surety.
May be people are opinionated and many had posted bad remarks about trailers of Sawariya on PFC but in same post many, including me, had praised the trailers.
How It can be said and proved as bitching about SLB on PFC? and then such posts always can be taken as what marketing guys do, means sampeling!
Till you are at PFC who has clear vision, till many are here who dont criticise unnecessarily then how PFC can be biased. difference is I register my comment when feel and you dont register and in this case you simply waited and made conclusion on the basis of that accumulation of lot of complaints.
You are a film maker and common reader will pay more attention to you and your writing than they can give to us. If they are not as educated as you want them to be then you have to try them to educate rather than to sweep all people from same brush.
Here you get post on Black.
http://passionforcinema.com/black2005-sanjay-bhansali%E2%80%99s-constructive-revenge-from-audience/
Now inspite of all good things in Black people have right to see lackings in the film and what could have been different if different approaches were applied.
I am personally against criticising any work before its released. I may not like RGV’s current films but I registered protest when people started declaring Nishabd as bad film before it was released.
But more than that what one can do? People say many things and only in long term such things can be stopped. PFC is only 1 year old.
and then PFC has extreme fans of RGV. We have to consider whole picture.
This will be ideal condition when nobody will criticise anyone.
If Hindi cine Industry is working on ideal conditions then PFC will achieve this Idealism rather more fast.
—- contd—
@Suparn (6)
Hindi film industry thinks that PFC is run by Anurag Kashyap or by his staunch supporters or its heavily biased towards him or his works.
I have a question to you.
Being a part of PFC family, do you try to remove this wrong impression or do you also believe in this wrong hypothesis of Hindi cine Industry?
You have access to any kind of discussion going on between authors and everybody has access to PFC
ek baar me ek mahine ka raashan paani.. bahut na.insafi hai
@RK bhai (or chacha ji if you have crossed fifties.. sorry but I dont know how to address you)
Aapne likha hai
>Pavan Jha had asked you simple questions on your >post. Perhaps you did not have time to respond to >each and every commentator.
Mujhe to apne sawaalo.n ke jawaab kisi se nahin milte.. suparn ji akele ka kya dosh..
Hututu ka ek dialog yaad aa raha hai..
Kulbhushan : Is generation ke paas sawaal bahut hai.n
Sunil : Jawaab bhi to nahin milte
But I am very sure outcome of this healthy discussion between you and suparn is going to be the foundation stone of the things to come on PFC and maybe after 5-10 years we realize the importance of these two posts..
@RK
I suppose u got it all wrong here.. pls check Suparn’s post again.
@Pavan,
As “t!” is not present so taking liberty to type hindi/urdu, without producing english translation.
“Harek baat pe kehate ho tum ki tu kya hai
tumhi kaho ki ye andaje guftgu kya hai”…..
….
“Chipak raha hai badan par lahu se pairahan
hamaai jeb ko an haajat-e-rafu kya hai”
….
“Jala hai jism jahaan dil bhi jal gaya hoga
kuredte ho joh ab raakh justaju kya hai”….
…
“Ragon mein daudate phirane ke hum nahin qaayal
jab aankh hi se na tapaka toh phir lahu kya hai”
..
“Rahi na taaqat-e-guftaar aur agar ho bhi
toh kis ummeed pe kahiye ke aarzoo kya hai”
“Bana hai shah ka musaahib, phire hai itraata
vagarna shahar mein “Ghalib” ki aabroo kya hai”
—-
If meet Gulzar saab in near future then please say him thanks that he used Vinod Sehgal to sing initial lines of this beautiful thing, though it may be more because of Vishal Bhardwaj or may be because of Jagjit Singh. Whoever used him earns praise. A good singer residing in a small city.
—-
[Using you as medium to say (as have used Suparn as a medium to say what should be said)] :-
This is a strong fear that whole episode will be seen as related with Suparn only. IT’S NOT!
We all should be highly thankful to him that because of him things came out in open, though PFCians (atleast till now) are losing opportunity to utilize this occassion. What could have turned out to be a tunring point for PFC is losing its importance because of silence of majority of PFCians. Here fits two poems one by Ramdhari Singh Dinkar
“Samar Shesh hai paap ka bhagi nahin keval vyadh
Jo tatastha hain samay dekhega unka bhee apradh”
and second one,
“baar baar ki khitpit se achcha hai ek baar ka mahasangram
yudh ke baad ka itihas hee batayega
pandavon aur kauravon ka paksh
abhee to balramon kee bheerh hai ”
Only thing is here we dont have two opposite sides. we are same side and we are saying similar things. But perhaps its seen as “X” Vs “Y” and hence sit and watch attitude of authors!
Featured authors cant get time and its possible they dont read posts made by others and many read posts made by their chosen featured author only. Leave alone exceptions no featured authors felt to comment on Suparn’s post.
Often People have opinion but they dont express it on appropriate time and later they complain when wrong impression is already established.
We (in general) dont wake up at right time and later blame, leaders, countries, democrarcy or anything and everything. Then we have version that everything is so rotten that nothing can be done.
Many regular author may not write because they may think its related with film maker/s why to enter in such matter.
Its strange/funny/amusing to see that many dont realise its not about a person, its about our place where we all gather daily, spend hours, spend a tremendous amount of energy, if we dont discuss about our place who will do?
I am obliged to Suparn and more to Hansal for their balanced participation. If there is selection of best commentator among featured authors then my choice is Hansal. He often commented on others post and on quality based posts which cover interesting and important contents and not on posts having personal rantings.
He voiced his opinion in Authors private place also at right time.
If many (if not all) follow this policy then PFC’s progress is fast and definite and then it can definetely play an important role in cine world.
—
This is not necessary that authors have to take sides because there is no two sides on war here.
Everybody can say independently without thinking about sides. Just opinions dealing with matters and not with people.
—
For the sake of humour:
In lack of proper participation sometimes I feel
to agree with old saying
” Kis kis ko roiye, kis kis ko gaiye
Aram bahut badi chese hai,
munh dhak ke so jaiye”
Thanks for your contribution.
—
For you, I used to play marbles with Raj-Dev-Dilip… in the childhood
I used to play Table Tennis with Amitabh Bachchan… in school days
I used to play computer games with SRK
Now I play film trivia with you and others.
Is time always linear?
:-?
@Hey Parth,
Whatever is its deliberate. Dont see things limited to two posts only.
His post is not simply this post, my responses are not limited to his this post or rather to him only.
Others are finding it difficult to get it because ideally we should have discussed all this not on PFCs main page but among ourselves but then it could have been a closed door discussion and everybody has limitation in terms of thinking and as we are doing it in open we have many intelligent people to monitor whole thing and to correct us and to contribute whenever they think whats right or whats wrong.
Thank you very much Sir, for participation. Please do it on continuous basis and help making PFC the best forum.
Some day PFC will be playing a major role atleast in Hindi Cinema. :)
Its Durga Puja time and Ramadan time and hope this wish is accepted.:d/
RK, dude. Why don’t you become a personal fan-mail replier for some actor of your liking, maybe Govinda (he’s been mentioned a lot! :d/ )? Arre bhai, you’ve got so much time on your hands to draw such exhaustive inferences about films, filmmaking and filmmakers. :-? Funny thing is, you said so much that it just became a big, inflated balloon after a point. All gas! Phussssssssssssssssssssssssssss :w;
@RK,
I was so happy when I discovered PFC and I thought I finally found someplace I could talk about my love for Indian films, but it seems that all the films I liked were being called shit and crap by a lot of the posters on here. When I tried to explain when I liked these films from a US perspective I was insulted by Anurag and others. I fought back and even went so far as to watch Anurag’s film and even praise it. There are other ways to describe someone’s dislike of another’s film besides calling it crap or shit and it seems like a lot of the posters who make these remarks on PFC (and other sites) haven’t even seen the film yet. They just don’t like it because it’s considered commercial. What if I had formed that opinion about “Black Friday” without seeing it? In fact I had no desire to see it until I found PFC and Anurag. Now I hate to keep giving Anurag all these compliments, especially since I didn’t feel his answers to me were very diplomatic, but if a movie is good than it’s good and I will compliment it. If a movie is shit and I hated it I will find a way to explain why I didn’t care for it AFTER seeing it first. I will not say to someone that enjoyed it that it was crap, I would try to give them reasons why I disliked it and have a discussion……and I will continue to voice my opinions on here.
NoVa…
i think you are formed a view on PFC primarily based on the comments section of this site mate.
other than that
you are as much part of PFC as we all are..
you are free to air your views - so are we.
and both views need not necessarily be concurrent.
cheers
@DPac,
You are right, I have I have formed my view based on the comment section. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, seeing it from that perspective that has actually calmed me down:d
Nova/Mihiko,
we have around 3000 firsttimers and unique visitors to PFC each day…
some leave a comment reading what they see on that day..
impressions are made in moments..
theres a huge pile old posts in the archives which very few of them read..
its really irritating when such instantly impressionable visitors leave scathing comments which have no basis whatsoever…
the editors and authors here, try their best to answers each query and remove misconceptions…
this is a day in day out process..
it would be great if visitrs took a more comprehensive look before forming opinions..
thats what RK has been doing - this wholly thankless job
@DPac,
Being still sort of new here, I guess I’m not used to who’s regular or not. I feel I give my opinion from the heart and not in a rude or scathing way.I’m just trying to back up my opinions with examples,but to tell you the truth the post that upset me the most was from a popular regular poster and blogger on here…and I don’t want to mention his name again because even I’m getting tired of saying it. I hope soon that everyone will let me into the group.
Nova,
regardless of who said it what was said, we should all understand that we are all anonymous here and the words we type in may or may not express the feelings with which we write them..
its been found on innumerous occassions (not just by visitors or commenters- even by authors)that we associate certain additional meaning to what has been written..
this meaning may sometimes be correct, but i for one would refrain from being presumptous about such associations.
the debate would be considerably more productive if we refrain from such associations..
if anurag was dismissive about one of my comments, i would take it up with him to understand WHY he said what he said rather than being offended at it (i dont know anurag but i have read what he writes here and havent found very few here who is more balanced, informative, and knowledgeable)
@DPac,
When I told Anurag I learned about some family and religious customs that I would never have been exposed to by watching the Bollywood films he said (I’m paraphrasing) his fears had finally come true about what people in other countries would think about Indians by watching Bollywood movies and he told me I would probably be happier on another website that liked the films I did….so DPac, would that have offended you?! I told him exactly what I thought of those remarks and he never answered back(I have no idea how to contact him directly or I would have), but even after all that I still rented and watched his movie and gave him the respect he deserved for making it.
Nova,
:)
i know where u are coming from ..
i know where anurag is coming from..
and u got every right to be annoyed at this “he told me I would probably be happier on another website that liked the films I did”
its great that in between all this you got to watch BF..
…and because of my love for Bollywood it led me to BF….I’m drunk from partying all night:”>
@NoVADJ (75),
As you have been visiting PFC for months now so you are also part of PFC.
PFC is a platform, something like Moving “Hyde Park”. you come and say what you feel to say but after that Hindus spiritual book Gita comes in to existence that you have control over your doings only and results are not in your hands though they may be based on your karmas (works) you have done.
You can say your opinion but its not necessary all others should like and appreciate it. On net one has to consider this important factor.
[1] Here one cant complain why others are not saying exactly what I like. They may have different opinion than you as you may have different opinion than them.
[2] Whatever you have in your mind that Anurag was rude with you or something like that, you have to sort out yourself but you must go back to read again the comment Anurag had typed. His comment started with a response to Shifas Bin and Suparn. He sarcastically advised Shifas not to bear torture by spending time here if he does not like films discussed here. What he wrote for Shifas, you cant/shouldn’t take that on you.
then he was general and only in last part of his comment he addressed you. Like you have opinion he also have and NOBODY knows ultimate or absolute truth here.
How many Hollywood directors you can get to interact with, in such a manner as you get Indian Directors here? If none, then please understand the significance and importance of this interaction.
[2] Words take different meaning in different era. Some years ago Sexy word was meant for Sexy and then some years ago it started as used for anything attractive and today a good looking or appealing vegetable can be called as” what a Sexy veg.”
People dont mind using S**t or crap like words but do they mean with their harshest meaning? The meanings which were in vogue in some years ago?
Now you Americans say,” I am going Mad” We Indian say for same kinda expression ” I am getting angry”. “Mad” is “Mad” for us and not a same term as you guys use there. At the most Indians in India will say ” I am going Mad with Anger” but very few will use in same manner Mad word as Americans use. So dont go word to word things. One has to read between the lines. Crap and S**t kind of words can be used to express that audience got bored. It will be good and ideal condition when people will use proper word to express something but till then try to see collective picture.
[3]Whatever films you like, if you can write, you should write about them. Write an article and if you like send that to PFC and let it be published. What you wanted to say you said, now whether other people here will like the same film or your article or not, it depends on chances.
[4] Just because some film maker is present on PFC that does not mean you (or anyone) have to praise his film/s. Films made by filmmakers present at PFC have been heavily criticised at PFC. But whatever is good in them that also has been mentioned. PFC is not COURT where judgements can be given. Here we can only discuss. Some finds something good in a film and they praise these aspects of the film and some others dont find those aspects as good so they criticise those aspects of same film, now its up to the readers which opinion they take from here.
[5] as a reader your opinion is important. Some film makers who care to satisfy audiences living far away from India may get clue from your comments that what may appeal you, and what a non Indian, new to Indian films, is liking in the film.
You must mention your opinion. Why you care for rest, who said what?
If you like cinema then please try to keep discussion revolving around cinema only.
Some people like to say short comment like they liked a film or they did not like a film. With these comments one(filmmaker especially) cant know what good they liked or what bad they disliked. PFC plays important part in pointing out in detail what audience did not like or liked.
So consider this picture.
Now if you would like to write about any film you liked, please go ahead and support the films you have been liking. PFC is open to you.
Thanks:)
@Mihiko (74),
That seems a nice area. Does it exist?
Your balloon theory is good.
Sab gas hai:)
Universe is expanding and expanding and expanding.
Sab Gas hai :d
@RK,
Thanks for the caring and intelligent comments and once again I’ve calmed down about the incident.
I actually wrote an article and sent it to PFC and I never heard anything back. I was so frustrated when I heard that EROS bought partial ownership of AYNGARYN that EROS DVD’s have the worst quality and AYNGARYN always turns out quality product so I was really upset that EROS might turn them into shit. The quality on YASHRAJ just went down also. They have 3 new song DVD’s and besides having almost all the same songs on them they were processed in the wrong aspect so the picture is squeezed and looks awful.
…I would also love to blog about Bollywood from US eyes,but I doubt that would get printed too….