Janata is King? Stupid Majorityism
This is a self-admittedly elitist article. So, spare me comments about it being so.
There is too much democracy all around us. The Janata is the Janardhan. The less talented singer wins the reality show; a government that, arguably, abetted crimes against humanity, wins a landslide at the hustings; a brain-dead comedy inspired from ‘Three Men and a Baby’ grosses over Rs 50 Crs and the Director goes around ridiculing his seniors; Ekta Kapoor continues to make regressive serials which top TRP ratings – all of these become legit because the great Janata has spoken in their favor. Janata or Public, that shapeless, faceless entity, at whose altars, pedestrian talent becomes precocious. Who are you to argue with the freakin’ Janata? Are you a fascist? (note: the Nazi party and Hitler actually came to power via a popular election)
This is what Fareed Zakaria (former editor Newsweek) calls the tyranny of the majority. He argues that democracy, overwhelmingly, has had wonderful consequences. But the construction of a rich, diverse and complex social order needs a multitude of ideas to flourish. Democracy as a single ideology across politics, society, arts and business is akin to religious dogmatism where faith dictates every aspect of life. This is a very important argument. Democracy has proven itself to be the most acceptable form of political governance where the will of majority forms the basis for legislature. However, to extend ‘majorityism’ to other areas, especially arts, is plain stupid. There has to be a more nuanced appreciation going beyond numbers. We seem to be losing that in all arts, especially, cinema.
But this is what has happened to us as a society. People’s will or Janaadesh has replaced reason everywhere. There is a reason why a lot of institutions that work well are patently undemocratic. Supreme Court judges in India and the United States are appointed and not elected. Chief of Staff in Defence Services aren’t chosen based on polls nor are CEOs selected on the basis of shareholders’ votes. I tend to watch 24 hour news channels quite closely especially the section where they have SMS polls on a chosen topic. The more I see them, the more I am convinced that mindless ‘majorityism’ is dangerous. I believe the following hypothetical questions will have the majority say ‘yes’ to based on what I sense from these programs:
1. Is Pritam a greater artist than Pt. Ravishankar?
2. Should Amitabh Bachchan become the President?
3. Should India go to war with Pakistan now?
4. Has democracy failed in India?
The last question is quite telling. If you leave it to the majority, they might actually vote against democracy! They have done so through out the 20th century (refer to the Hitler example above).
Public acceptance can’t be the only criteria for judging success. Dialectic and sound critique have important roles in the society. When we taunt them or dismiss them off as elitist we are threatening the basis of human progress over ages. We seem to dismiss intellectualism in the same breath as intellectual snobbery. A case of throwing off the baby with the bath water!
So, as ‘Singh is King’ plays to packed houses, or Sajid Khan calls Riteish Deshmukh a superstar, or when TV channels have 10 year old kids dancing on reality shows, don’t be amused and kowtow to Janata Janardhan’s mandate.
Fight it! The Janata is stupid. They deserve better. Only, they don’t know about it.
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true. so true.
professor saaab…
yeh kya ho gaya
fantastic writeup…
Junta waise hi government paati hai jo woh deserve karti hai..
Nuclear deal n they got a problem, but Reservation is okay. Almati dam is a problem but mandir/masjid is ok. Brain drain is ok but biharis working in bombay is a problem.
Hi5
Didn’t you get only two comments on your last post?
Awesome …loved it..i second every damn line of yours..beauty..
I can smell the rise of the elitist!!Time for oligarchy??
I think a lot of the things here are being mixed up which clearly shows a lack of proper understanding of democracy!
Hitler won the elections the same way Musharaf won in 2002 and Mugabe won in 2008.. Dont even call that elections or democracy! When millitary is given the power to control everything and no independent institutions exist..how can u expect democracy to flourish?
Now thats the political side of it..
Now coming to things like music/films..
Now whether Pritam is a better artist than Pandit Ravishankar or is a very technical question..you cannot expect the average janata to understand the finer details of music and be able to judge that! Thats why any singing competition that relies on public voting is flawed..Music should be judged by those who understand music…preferably musicians themselves..
Whether Amitabh should become President or not??
If that was the case then I dont think he would have been such a failure as a politican!
Dpac: Prof has views on everything under ths sun
Shatur: sahi bolta hai
Oz, Sourav: need to counter this nonsense head on
Vinayak: ouch! that hurt
Faraaz: I’m not sure if you understood the post.
Also, I took the Hitler example very specifically becuase there is nothing in common to his wining elections when compared to Musharraf or Mugabe. The closest equivalent of HItler winning elections in modern times is Putin. Putin’s ratings in Russian public (aam aadmi) continues to be remarkably high despite some rather direct attack on fundamental rights of people and business
Democracy is not a single ideology, nor is it a system that is flawless and perfect! However democracy is the only system that provides a self correcting mechanism…It provides a way for smooth transition of power..it provides a way where incompetent leaders can be voted out..
Dictators like Hitler, Mugabe and Musharaf have always held controlled elections where the candidates they pick win..now dont even associate that with democracy and dont associate that with Hey Baby becoming a huge hit!
Thats a totally different issue! Yes Hey Baby has more mass appeal than a film like The Blue Umbrella…Thats how art has always been…Britney Spears will have a bigger audience than Dream Theatre..thats the way it is..but that does not mean democracy as a political system is a failure at all..
@Faraaz, Beg to differ. Hitler’s elections were no way controlled. You’ve got to read “The Rise and Fall of The Nazi Empire”…
Thanks for the recommendation..however when I used examples of Hitler, Mugabe and Musharaf..I wasnt trying to suggest that they all used the same tactics..I was just trying to state that just because someone wins an election does not necessarily mean he is approved by the vast majority…
It is because of democracy that Mugabe had to beat up the Opposition leader, beat up their candidates, and threaten then..because he knew he would never win democratically…its because of democracy that Musharaf had to sack supreme court judges, put Benazir on house arrest and not allow Nawaz Sharif to enter the country…and appoint his own judges and election commissioner..because he knew he was never going to win democratically…
As I said before..democracy is never meant to be perfect or flawless..you are never going to find a complete, flawless ideology or system…the problem is whenever something goes wrong we quickly blame the ideology without realising that an ideology is only as good as the people involved..
Whenever you have anything close to a free and fair election…you have results…
And thats what democracy provides..it provides this way of dealing with problems, correcting mistakes, it does not mean majority is always right..what it does is provide a way even if the majority is wrong!
Faraaz you mentioned Dream Theater dint you..my favourite band!!
Populist=herd mentality=not always right!!
Commercial/Sell out v/s Niche
You never know Faraaz..popular music is always on the fore..but you never know how many underground followers swear their allegiance to dream theater..just an example.
Bigger audience again will again depend on the time domain…how long the attention is there.
I dont know why my post did not appear last time.
Anyway at this moment I will like you all to watch a documentary which debates this issue. It is “The Century of Self”. To give you what is in the documentary. It explicitly says that people take decision not by reason but by the urge of their inner subnconscious mind. It also tells how to influence the inner minds of the people.
I am posting the link of one of the part. Watch all its four part if u have time and bandwidth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151
I do not consider myself an “elitist” by any stretch.. but I can identify with the heart of this post.
That George W. Bush was RE-elected, after the whole damn world was exposed to his administrations (or should I say “regimes” slimy self-serving political agenda goes to show that democracy in the hands of a few good men and a whole lot of stubbornly uninformed fools can indeed be dangerous.
That elections and films alike have become far more dependent on hype than on actual merit shows the dangers of political/cinematic ignorance and how it can hinder the progression of society.
We can’t have good government or good mainstream cinema until the majority becomes aware of what good government/cinema actually is.
tony…..
george bush’s re election was a scandal in itself….
majority of the opinion polls showed that the majority was against him……..
Wah!! heres to more views…
and more ’substantiated views’ like this (had to say tht ehehh)
@vinayak,
i have a hunch that comments are gonna pile up for that post
Faraaz: My point, specifically mentioned in the post (as also Zakaria’s), is that democracy is the best acceptable political and electoral system but stretching that to the field of arts, business, science et al is recipe for disaster. Too many people are getting away with mediocre stuff in these areas touting public acceptance as their excuse. Frustratingly, these people actually use that acceptance to take potshots at genuine artists.
Creativity should precede public acceptance.
Manoj: thanks for that link. Haven’t seen all of it yet.
Tony: thanks for chipping in
Dpac: ’substantiated’ views?? The Prof has always substantiated his views with deep reserach findings. This was purely an opinion piece as an antipode to Prof’s substantiated advices
@16 “It also tells how to influence the inner minds of the people”
———————-
IMHO Advertisement is the name of the game. constant bombardment on peoples mind. The media declares it as winners. Nobody checks the facts but it is afterall a winner
Subrat..am very late commenting on this very opinionated post, only that I virtually agree with you on every point.
Does the people (janta janardhan) know what is right?
Proven time and again, they do not know. But who are the mood and opinion makers. Thinkers, leaders, economists, artists, politicians, judiciary and above all the media. Are these gentlemen doing their job to perfection?
NO.
Why not?
No Accountability
Who shall bring in accountability?
Laws of the land
Is there enough teeth in our laws?
NO
So, who provides the teeth and how?
Parliament, Judiciary and Executive by Reforms
Why is that not happening?
well..ahem..aah..democracy!!
So, is democracy good for us?
Definitely
So, why is Singapore the best country to live in now?
Ah..well..can we take a SMS vote on this on NDTV??!!
The Arushi case in point, the media work was a disaster. Even a judge has verbally lashed out. But, is Mr. Talwar reinstated at Fortis or has Star News done a piece on its own sorry coverage. No! The public has forgotten the family and it is left to him and Nupur Talwar to file a case against all the press goons and bring them to book.
We deserve our state of affairs. Whether, it is Amarnath (where vested interests did not get lucrative yatra contracts and so all this tamasha), or Nandigram (CPM has scientifically changed the demographics of the entire state to suit its political and money ends over 30 years and it has badly boomeranged), our films (we all know it) or its arts (all our artists perform and teach abroad, nobody does it in India)…sorry state!
Who will bell the cat. Private companies weed out bribe takers, bad performers and story tellers. Does the nation have any rules for the civil society?
Or we should keep kow towing to any and every rabble rouser negating every reform?
This whole statement of “Does the people (janta janardhan) know what is right?” is such an elitist statement. A synonymous sentence is “We are the intelligent people… the others are dumb.” If they really like Pritam’s Mauja hi mauja more than a Ravi Shankar recital, why should they be told otherwise? Let’s leave the Parliament thing out of this because it was decided by a bunch of ministers and not the country at large… The reason a Singh is Kinng or a Heyy Babyy is being made by someone and is being liked by so many else is because they are on the same page. You and I are not. And let us watch our Fellinis at home and let them watch what they like. But let’s not change their taste… THAT IS SO AGAINST DEMOCRACY!
Pratim: Labelling someone elitist is so “elitist”
It’s downright convenient form of argument which is the reason I started the post with that disclaimer.
What’s wrong with being elitist? Why shouldn’t we aspire for better? Why owe an apology for being an intellectual (in the broadest possible definition of the term). Left to themselves, the majority opinion would possibly be against most things civilzation has come to stand for.
Let me give you an example (and I am not equating cinema with something as serious as this but merely illustrating my point):
According to Centre for Social Research (2005), the girl-boy sex ratio below five years in predominantly middle class South Delhi has declined to 762 girls born for every 1,000 boys. This is an alarming statistic which can only explained through systematic female foeticide. This is what they want. This is one more expression of their ‘taste’.
These are tastes that need a change.
oops mia culpa
make that substantial..
and not always…
u r sounding more like the god of small things today thats why my initial query? as to wht brought this on?
Subrat, I have really nothing to say if you equate a liking for some movie or music with “systematic female foeticide”! Baap re, this is not passionforcinema at least… Passion for cinema means allowing the passion juices to flow for every kind of cinema and not doctoring someone else’s choice, because that is born out of that individual’s political, social and economic background and upbringing and I would never ever impose my so-called elitist intellectualism on him. Thank you!
Pratim: Not fair! I had mentioned very clearly I’m not equating the two. And you pick exactly on that. Please read that again. My point remains that dissing intellectualism is becoming the new pastime.
subrat, I agree with your views and concerns here. But I had rather have junta decide and take the responsibility than I decide and lets say stop pritam from making music and instead get Pt. Ravishankar for it. Here we are treading that path of us knowing whats good for others. It is dangerous. If we have to stop this stupid “majorityism” the only way to do is what we are doing at this forum. Get our views out there. Believe in the janta and believe in logic.
Also , even though its a long shot,I would mention that everything is not so simple. I would and do scoff at that lesser singer winning the contest. But its a complex phenomenon. Its not just junta janardan in the herd voting, it also contains perhaps a community eager to get represented in society. When we go from individual to a group, it becomes overtly complex. Lots of factors contribute to a decision.
lastly I am a bit high so if all the above doesn’t make sense, the blame is all on me , not that the thoughts are too ‘elitist’ to make sense
Like many of readers, I never seem to understand your posts (its my fault - nothing to do with your posts), but will still comment on this, to understand…
Just a question: “Hey Baby” - fans - what’s the population made of, in terms, qualified (professionals) and non-qualified (unskilled)? If more qualified people liked the film then what’s the relation between intellectualism and film taste?
A Joke: Smart people are dorks, so they don’t know what’s cool. And hence fillums like Heyy Babbyy works.
Janata is smart but they have a poor taste in arts because of the culture and environment they live in. Kisi ne bola hai.. (i think, it was mentioned on pfc or some famous people said it), to appreciate a piece art is an art itself.. (something like that)
But aren’t films/picture meant to be self-explanatory?
Anyway…
you admit to being elitist.So you are the less dangerous kind of elitist.I have only one thing to say…Most of the people are in fact elitists..especially in cinema..its just that most people think that they are part of the elite.And any medium can remain only for the so-called classes if and till the people associated with it choose it to..if the people associated with it want to earn money..they have to climb down from from that high horse of theirs.
Nice write up and a helthy discussion.. I liked it…gud start of my day today.
I think when you bring in discussions of films in question here then it’s just not possible to shut up and watch our social fabric getting flushed down the toilet.
An example, “hey Baby” (I refuse to spell it the way they want me to, even though it would have taken much less effort for me to do that than to have written this statement, but that’s the point), the biggest shock comes when you see the film in an up class theater and I am talking about seeing it with the seemingly educated viewers (who else you think sits in RED LOUNGE halls spending 400 bucks per ticket) and they go on and on laughing their eyes out at the most deplorable part of the film with the dirty diaper that primarily goes on an on. (the films is laced with crap throughout) Seeing this happening around you, you are lucky you just survived a possible heart attack.
SO now if someone comes and tells me let them enjoy what they like, it’s their choice, then you are left with no choice but to throw up. You feel ashamed for not doing much about it, it reflects the sorry state of people’s intellect. And I am talking about the fundamentals here not high grade. Is this how low we have stooped to for the sake of entertainment? It’s like laughing at a very bad joke, and we all know a bad joke when we hear it. Sorry, but it’s utterly inexcusable. The only thing I felt like doing was to get up and slap each and every one in that hall, but I did what can be the weakest thing to do, walk out.
These people have been given a choice and they go choose to go to the dumps with it. Cinematic ‘democracy’ in this case didn’t work for them. They need to be whipped and taught a few lessons in basic aesthetics, just like they force education on us in schools, because trust me had we been given a choice then we’d have happily gone without schooling. We are glad now in the long run we were not given that choice, and Creative whipping will have the same effect down the years. People will thank us for it.
I find it funny how Subrat keeps giving disclaimer after disclaimer, but gets attack for exactly those points.
Abhi
“But I had rather have junta decide and take the responsibility than I decide and lets say stop pritam from making music and instead get Pt. Ravishankar for it.”
I don’t think Subrat wants to ban Pritam from making music. He wishes in an ideal world Ravishankar would be more popular than Pritam. Pritam’s of the world have every right to exist.
If I had to spend 400 bucks to watch a film like that I would be angry. Couple of months back I spent 200 bucks for a seat and popcorn. The film was Jodha Akbar and it left me angry. I didn’t have a job then and 200 meant a lot to me. I was angry that I was decieved. Those 200 bucks could have been spent in so many ways.
I saw some crap Sunny Deol film three-four years back at PVR. It was a relative’s birthday, a treat, so I wasn’t really angry, I was pissed. I know people who saw Race/Tashan at a multiplex and then cribbed. They too were wondering if spending a grand was worth the ‘experience’. When The Matrix Revolutions came out a group of guys in my college decided to watch it FDFS. A couple of them backed out; they had blown their money on a booze party.
In Delhi, there is no decent theatre where you can watch a film for less than Rs 100 (leaving out the morning shows). Ticket prices range between Rs 150 to 650. Depending on how much you (or your dad) earn multiplexes can either be classified as expensive outings or casual entertainment. I still look at them as the former. There are people who don’t. Since I am not one of them, I can’t vouch for their thoughts. But from what I see, they don’t seem to mind sitting in a Gold/Premier theatre to watch one crap film after another.
People like me don’t matter much. With limited seats the smallest of the upper middle/ upper classes can be accomodated easily. Once the theatre is occupied you can claim ‘public’ acceptance, ‘democratic’ victory, ‘majority’ opinion etc .
“My point remains that dissing intellectualism is becoming the new pastime.” - You got that right. Everything you have said in your article is right too.
But the real issue is that inspite of a lot of people knowing what is right and what is wrong, what is good for them or bad for them… they choose to ignore it.
Acceptance to everything, open-mindedness, rationality, practicality, etc. is an excuse for everything from Hey Baby, unhealthy diets, bedroom preferences to female foeticide.
“Usko jo accha lagta hai… karne do. Apna kya jaata hai!”. That is the new democracy.
This is one of the best and healthiest (except for some crappers) discussions I’ve seen anywhere in a long time.
Yes Oz…I agree!!
Good work Subrat. The post is celeverly written…though I am hopeful that people will make mistakes and learn from them eventually. The quality of politicians that we elect is abig example of people making mistakes.
But just out of curioisity, I want to know how many people who have made comments in this post have actually voted in the last, say 2 elections?
@Subrat
Second you man ,some things cannot be under democracy ,people in general are gullible fools ,(eg : the german public actually believed that jews were responsible for their defeat in the first world war or the belief in religion and rituals in general) .
however as far as governance is concerned history has always shown that the alternative to democracy is always for the worse and fraught with danger.
But sometimes feel that the definition of of what is artsy is too limited in it’s scope as defined by “the few” ,but they are small nuances and are not relevant to the wider theme of this article
Anand… I’ve voted in both the past 2 elections (prior to that I was too young to vote… ~sigh~…) Now are you asking specifically of the US or Indian elections (not sure where you’re from) because I’m actually from Canada…
@vineet….
u say people are gullible fools……….now thats a sweeping statement………we all have been gullible too at some point of time in our lives or the other………..circumstances change the outlook very quickly….
anand…
the quality of politicians elected is directly proportional to the quality of politicians available…..
personal prejudice be it based on caste or whatever always plays an important role ….and i think its always gonna be there in some or the other form…..
@aamir Jaffar…If u thot that a man like saajid khan will give anything other than toilet-nappy humour u have only urself to blaim….not the ppl who laugh on dat kind of humour…
good one profsaab and i thought m the most cynical guy here. just give me a gun and few bombs and i will use them 4 sure. m all for co-existence but it really hurts when any shitty film with potty jikes makes crores and a decent one doesnt even get evening shows in the theatres. but then if khosla ka ghosla can remain in cans for two years and then get a release and work in every possible way, i live in hope.
@ashwin
I am not a believer of “jo hota hai achhe ke liye hota hai” or the “wisdom of the masses” .
I also said “in general” ,there may be exceptions as well ,people get easily motivated on the basis of religion ,god or nationalism/regionalism ,if that is not gullibility then what ?
Also the gullibility of a person is inversely proportional to education ,and I do not mean literacy ,I mean real education.
@ i never implied that u were a believer of that….
religion, god or nationalism have always motivated one and all …in some or the other way…..what i meant is that circumstances often contribute to the gullibility of a person…
real education….come on man..what does that mean..?
Fantastic article.I would like to add here that the tv channels are mostly being run by businessmen who have no idea of literature.Whatever good shows made during 80’s on doorsarshan was because the directors had some grounding in literature(and they did not have to tear their hair thinking about trp’s).That is completely missing now.Same with films.I sometimes feel that we have progressed so much vis a vis 80’s but both the mediums-tv and cinema does’nt reflect that.
Subrat,there is a saying that loosely translates as that if donkeys are in majority their leader can’t be a derby horse..It’s not that people don’t want to see good,meaningful and yet entertaining cinema..But those people are still in minority..With all the brouhaha over our IT leadership and India Shining majority if not illiterate is atleast not educated enough(so called elite)..So you and me can of course do our bit to be part of a movement for change but majority of our countrymen even those visiting mulitplexes(with their nouvea rich status) are way way behind and thats why they Welcome Sing is Kinng and hi5 to the cries of Heyy Baby
yes Pranay.. you are 100 percent on the money. but I am also open to seeking entertainment from films. And this was the time I fell for it, like many times in the past and after that.
Yeah Subrat.
How about starting a project to open public Libraries for students in Bangalore?
Where they would find Nabokov & Hemingway alongwith “Let us C”.
The IT companies should start giving back now.
u r i
Hey
Very refreshing article. Haven’t read all the posts but here are my 2 bits …… both elitists and aam aadmi have equal place in a democracy. It is a question of who has more influence on the thought process of the majority. Elitists by definition are exclusive and have a limited sphere of influence. There is no reason that it cannot be otherwise, especially if they can deliver their message in a manner everyone can understand. Cinema of the 40s and 50s did that very effectively.
@mainak…very well said…i think our education system is only producing lakhs of second grade engineers who just reuse previously written computer code….a below-average level of intelligence is enough to sustain a man but a high
level of intellect isnt.
touché
There is only one problem of mass culture that the elitists have to contend with (the masses have no such problem, as they crave more for whats given to them)…those who live by self-promotion and publicity have so much cornered the media and communications that simply no one can can escape being bombarded with their images day in and day out…one will have to throw the telly out of the window, stop newspapers from entering the house, give up reading magazines and even
be most cautious on the net…and hope for a minimum of images by way of advertisments of the ’saleable’ or’commodityfiable’ mugs of celebrities. In short one will have to shift to a desert island…or live as a recluse in some gaon sans electricity…but one doubts if such places exist! It’s time to devise a bio-software that deletes these celeb images for the day…before the day dawns!
Subrat,
I agree with your direction completely.
I’ve always believed that democracy (or majoritysm) as an idea has only contextual relevance; it’s small, localised. It shows terrible flaws if applied as an incontrovertible philosophy, an umbrella idea. Putting such huge value on a people’s opinion - without any scrutiny of who they are, is pretty uselsss if you ask me.
Numbers will put a Race far above than say, a Bhuvan Shome, but to me that’s mere profiling tool of the ‘mass’ of this country - indicative of biggest consumption volumes than artistic superiority. Using such numbers emerging out of a pool of people with unquestioned credentials to deduce a better creative philosophy or product, is outrageous.
Hello … if you want to watch a kind of cinema, watch it. I entirely agree that there is no reason to be apologetic about it.
But why expect others to like the same stuff? Maybe there are more people out there who enjoy Pritam’s music more than Pandit Ravishankar. Or David Dhawan over Guru Dutt. Or Aneez Bazmee over Shyam Benegal. I am sure more people read Chetan Bhagat than Tolstoy. So? Why should democracy not apply here in terms of allowing people to watch what they want to watch? Are these matters of national importance? Are there subsidies being given out for watching movies? Does the government spend tax payers’ money funding any of these movies? People are spending their own money ..let them do it the way they want.
Being elitist in choosing what to watch is not a problem. Lecturing others on what to watch and what not to .. what to enjoy and what not to is. That is in no way different from what the likes of Sajid Khan do when they diss the so called serious film makers. Sample this comment for instance (from one of the replies above) - “These people have been given a choice and they go choose to go to the dumps with it. Cinematic ‘democracy’ in this case didn’t work for them. They need to be whipped and taught a few lessons in basic aesthetics”.
@Subrat’s post
So true man! ‘Masses’ has become the last refuge of all the scoundrels in our TV and film industry.
I remember last year, in a meeting with (some) TV Channel execs, I was narrating a stand-up comic act. As soon as I finished, without commenting on the script, one young EP frowned at another and asked - “Yeh Meerut mein samajh aayega?”
So, the lines are drawn - either you are with Meerut or against it. (Except that, Meerut doesn’t even know of its power in Mumbai.)
Majoritysm is a numbers-based deduction. Its derivations are all quantitative. It just can’t be applied to make qualitative judgements.
If Gandhi, My Father makes less money than No Entry, it can’t be put up to deduce that it’s the worse between the two qualitatively. Such judgements hold water only when they come from people who pursue taste and craft than numbers.
But since commercialisation of creativity has already happened bigtime, the Gorakhpur/Meerut/Barabanki is applied invariably to any and every creative enterprise nowadays.
Democracy is not the flawless solution.
It has been tried many times in the history and succeeded and failed many times.
ITs only uniqueness is the feeling that it gives to people that they have power in controlling an outcome of who gets to rule and therein indirectly what gets done in govt.
This sense of power to control is what the media is in turn giving to public in reality shows.
The problem is you as a elite seem to take the stupid reality ’so - called - talent’ shows all too seriously and crib that quality has no place.
Box Office too is the same case - what appeals to many will not be always qualitatively good. Expectation of that sort is also dangerous - better the taste of people - better will be the products of art that succeed commercially. So while a Dark Knight succeeds in USA, Sinng is unfortunately the kinng.
Wow…I ahve to watch SIngh is King now..It has instigated such a debate on democracy, cultural attitudes, world politics, elitism of the few and so on…Must be a great watch.
I started reading comments until I realized that I should just say what I have to say.
Subrat, it is a nicely worded piece as usual. I read your articles here with interest and often find them agreeable. This time, however, and it is my first time commenting, I will have some disagreements if you please :).
In arts, especially popular arts like cinema, there’s no right or wrong. Whether India should attack Pakistan or not is a decision that has to be taken based on facts, data, and analysis. One could argue and *prove* merits of one move over the other with factual information using objective methods (it is besides the point that even that can be a manufactured proof). That is not, however, the case with whether a movie (or a piece of music) or a piece of music is more likable than the other. You cannot conclude that by using a dataset.
The difference between the two decisions is too obvious to miss. It’s the difference between being right vs being likable. Objective vs subjective. Facts vs opinion. So while general opinion can be wrong about something that requires deeper data and fact-based analysis, like a war, or like who is a greater musician among Pritam and Ravishankar, it cannot be wrong about whether it liked a movie. (Aside, I have a feeling that most people would choose Ravishankar, not because they really know but because when they don’t, they do this kind of stuff)
You say, “Public acceptance can’t be the only criteria for judging success.” What else then? The alternatives are worse. Do I really want to follow a certain person’s (read ‘critic’) taste to determine my own, a person who may be looking at it from an altogether different worldview? Or to settle for his/her evaluation, when it can be (as very often is the case) biased and prejudiced and sometimes paid for? The primary key to determine success is the ‘goal’. Isn’t the goal of popular art likability? A movie is a success if it fared well with the people in general. Whether it’s good or bad is entirely personal. Can you tell me a movie or a song, which is liked by one and all? I guess not. So who should be the judge? Why should my opinion about a movie or a song be worth more than yours? It’s not. And that’s why in order to gauge the success of a movie, we turn to a general consensus. Or democracy. Or some form of it.
Fareed Zakaria “former editor Newsweek” ??
I think he still is the editor of Newsweek.
Sadly art or specifically the art of cinema has no longer remained that, especially in India. It is pure economics. Its all about return of investment. Just take a look at all the big production houses. I think only UTV among the big names is promoting some quality stuff but other than that most of them would happily produce a hey baby or welcome or singh is king instead of a bheja fry or khosla ka ghosla. So for the sake of earning all that money they have to pander to the masses (junta janardhan). Now i am sure even the corporate houses and most of the people that belong to our industry know that they are dishing out products that are far below a decent std. But do you think they care. Well as long as people pay they are happy. What the heck if Pandit Ravi Shankar’s compositions were to sell a million copies i am sure he would be composing in films right now.
We all would love to see the change that you propose by making the cinema making process less democratic, but again how are we going to achieve it. ‘How’ is the big question.
@vinay
u said all i wanted to say …
i just couldnt express the way u did….
bang on…….
Amit Singh@64: Managing Editor of Newsweek is Daniel Klaidman. Fareed is/was the Editor of Newsweek International. I’m not sure if after CNN’s ‘Fareed Zakaria GPS’ he’s a full time employee at Newsweek
Vinay @ 63: Very well argued. In fact, I had this argument myself. Why should someone’s choice be worth more than the other? I agree with you that once we accept that it would lead to worse forms of outcomes. The basis for most totalitarian regimes is exactly that. However, the problem, as many have mentioned here, is deliberate manipulation to cater what they believe is the taste of majority. If we did that in all our history, there wouldn’t have been any progress.
63.@Vinay
kudos!
@68:
Exactly. It’s not the Janta. It’s the manipulation and unreliability of methods we (media) use to determine what people want. What we want to fix is those systems, not the Janta.
Who is an Intellectual ?
Here is a definite way to find out whether you are an intellectual or not?
A little quiz:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/0,,637073,00.html
Answer to one of its toughest question:
Who is on the guest list at your fantasy dinner party?
Your answer should be: Camille Paglia, Vaclav Havel and Tom Wolfe
The quiz was a dig at an American research according to which more media mention for a person meant more quotient of intellectuality in that person.
Subrat,
I was just wondering about that low count… I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings and I am sure I didn’t
Subrat, he still is atleast Newsweek site says so.
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/pr/pages/newsweek-staff-bios.aspx
i’m not sure so help me out here, Fareed was never the managing/chief editor of Newsweek or was he ?
[...] completed reading your post “Janata is King? Stupid Majorityism” on the PFC.. Sometimes I tend to avoid reading PFC posts due to heavy occupancies in running the [...]
Subrat…I was referred your post by a colleague who, much like you, shudders at the mention of SiK (read SIcK!) I was quite intrigued, as I always enjoy a word war. However, I must say that after goin thru the whole post (and the comments, of course!), I have been left with a somewhat musty taste in my mouth.
Now, before you jump up, beat your fist on the table, narrowly missing your keypad and dismiss me as just another uninitiated lunatic who deserves to be spoon-fed Ekta Kapoorr/KKapoor/Kappoorr, with her eyes pried open with used toothpicks, allow me to explain myself.
I agree with most of the views you express here (surprise!) but I find your style a little meandering. Structurally, there are several non-linking and pointless(!) points in the argument, although, I do believe them to be unintentional, and more a result of a want of thoughtful editing, rather than a weakness of argument.
Faraaz, you may disagree at this point if you want, but I would like to quantify my comment with the following three examples.
A. Refer, for example, to the following quoted lines-
“Democracy as a single ideology across politics, society, arts and business is akin to religious dogmatism where faith dictates every aspect of life…….to extend ‘majorityism’ to other areas, especially arts, is plain stupid.”
However,
If you see, Indian (or say Russian) poster/pop art is today developing as a consequence of the rise of Democracy (or say Communalism) and would not have been possible, had not the concept of the ‘masses’ been propagated as a unifying theme to unite media of all types to express (or say enforce) the same thought.
Or say this was 1984 and Democracy/Communalism was replaced by Big Brother…
Find any similarities?
So you see, neither of the three is very much different from the other. Albeit, the last is fictional, the second certainly unpopular and the first, currently functional. But they are also all man made structures of Order, and should not be taken in too Absolute a sense.
Phew!
Moving on…
B. You have somehow equated the concept of democracy to massification and your post, which starts of as a rant against SiK, then metamorphosis’s into one against the Class, the Mass and The System.
Errr….thats not quite it you know…
First of all, why is a movie review post ending up in dictatorship tendencies?
Quote: “The Janata is stupid. They deserve better. Only, they don’t know about it.”
Ahem !
C. Also, you ask the pointed question- Has democracy failed in India? Without arguing the validity of such topics ending up in a Bollywood review, let us examine your argument. You claim that in a poll, the majority will probably answer ‘yes’. Quite right, I am afraid they would. But if only you had stopped there…
You further conclude that since the majority would agree to the said question, therefore, it is clear that “if you leave it to the majority, they might actually vote against democracy!”
Now, expressing an opinion that Democracy in India has failed is not the same as being against a democratic system. No?
Well, I do hope I have explained my point clearly, and without creating the least antagonism in your heart (I better, considering that I have rambled on and on, no?)
Before signing off, I would comment that if the purpose of this post is to initiate a discussion (as my same friend Abhi says) then Sir, you have done a great job. Only, you might want to fix the name and re-think the intro. It’s a lil off and would tend to mislead as to the real topic of the post .
S’long, and do keep writing, but also, do take things a lil easy in life.
Regards,
Tinman,
(1954hrs,13th Aug,2008)
PS: for reference to a REALLY effective negative film review that actually works, check this out…
http://greatbong.net/2006/07/07/krrish-me-not/
Subrat’s post
“My point, specifically mentioned in the post (as also Zakaria’s), is that democracy is the best acceptable political and electoral system but stretching that to the field of arts, business, science et al is recipe for disaster. Too many people are getting away with mediocre stuff in these areas touting public acceptance as their excuse. Frustratingly, these people actually use that acceptance to take potshots at genuine artists.
Creativity should precede public acceptance.”
I almost agree with that! I am not sure if thats what you meant in your original post! If u did and I misinterpretted your post..then I am sorry!
I go further to say stretching that to anything that requires technical knowledge is a recipe for disaster! You cannot expect an ordinary person to understand the finer nuances of the specific field and then be able to judge who is a better musician or a singer or a director or a cricketer or a doctor!
The problem with Indian cinema is not that Hey Baby becomes a blockbuster and Dharavi flops…even in Hollywood you have Pirates becoming a block buster and No Country flops…but over there..when it comes to judging films…it is done by those who understand filmmaking…it is not given to the audience to judge…when I went to watch No Country For Old Men..I was one of the 5 people watching it in the entire theatre..but when it came to the awards..it got its due!
Your write up has definitely led to a great exchange of views and opinions..it stimulates the mind! Well done!!
Tin Man - great post…I agreed with the parts I understood…didnt understand it all..sorry!!