Kurbaan : Some filmmakers have blood on them!
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Rensil - Karan : the makers
Kurbaan from the beginning was marketed as a film dealing with terrorism (& if I’m right it was even supposed to be titled ‘Jihad’ before better sense prevailed upon I don’t know who..!). It’s a thriller format but the content too is constantly played up (‘socio politico thriller’ if you may want to call it that), though neither is accomplished enough. My problem with the film is that it’s not about terrorism, it’s about the supposed ‘Muslim lifestyle’ & the terrorism coming out of it. Wife beating, women in hijab, women not allowed to work outside, patriarchal household. I don’t mean these problems doesn’t exist in the community but its not exclusive to the Muslim community & moreover they are separate issues & not necessarily directly linked with terrorism. So, either the makers were trying to be too ambitious or they themselves are not aware of their own prejudices. Yes, there are the essential representations of ‘moderate’ Muslims in the film – Riyaz (Vivek Oberoi) & Rehana (Dia Mirza), but they are as stereotypical in their conception as the characters representing the other extreme in the film. To be moderate, Rehana, a journalist, must wear business suits with its top shirt button open , must have a boyfriend & thus show no sign of her ‘Muslimness’ as Salma, Anjum or Saeeda are shown having by wearing hijab. Thus, hijab (once again) becomes the symbol of suppression by the males of the household rather than a symbol of faith. Mr. Riyaz Masood, again a journalist & Rehana’s boyfriend must only be concerned about ‘the American point of view’ of the news & should prioritise his identies – of whether being a Muslim first or an American first, according to his father (typical RSS/MNS ideology..should Tendulkar be an Indian first or a Marathi first..no surprise that Karan Johar readily apologises on being threatened of militant activities by Raj Thackeray’s MNS). Also, Riyaz’s father’s (played by Kulbushan Kharbanda) concern for thousands of innocents dying in Afghanistan/Iraq should be met with a contemptuous/indifferent look on the face of his ‘moderate’ Muslim son while the same son argues the same point later in the film. The difference – a bearded Muslim speaking about the Muslims is of a ghetto mentality & again, a Muslim with no sign of ‘Muslimness’ speaking of the same issue is a ‘moderate’. This is the line of thinking that the Talibans & the VHPs adopt as well.
I know that Kurbaan is just another not-to-be-taken-seriously Bollywood potboiler but I believe even if the popular forms of entertainment take up topics as serious as terrorism/religious extremism, it should at least do so responsibly. FANAA was a film very close to KURBAAN storywise & though it was regressive too but it never got political or debated religion in the context of terrorism. It remained a love story for most part & never made sweeping political/religious statements. Whereas in Kurbaan, Saif Ali Khan’s character, Ehsaan Khan teaches Islamic studies/Muslim identity probably at a reputed American University (how the film manages that & many other such things is a question that a viewer of the Hindi films must not even bring in his mind). Anyway my point is that a terrorist is teaching Islamic studies/Muslim identity in an American University & while he is in the class he is shown to be open minded. That sends out misguided message. Another instance is the scene at Bhaijaan’s (Om Puri) home, where Ehsaan announces that “agar bhaijaan ka bas chale to wo sabke haath mein Quran de dein”. Replace the word ‘Quran’ with ‘Hathyaar’ in the sentence – it’s a dangerously written line! These two instances are not just twisted in their thought but offensive to Muslims. I, as a Muslim take offence of that (no no I’m not going to vandalise or plant a bomb at Dharma Productions !)
Terrorism of the Muslim extremists have been in the forefront internationally since the 80s & after 9/11 everyone, wittingly or unwittingly made sure it becomes synonymous with the menace. I don’t want to doubt the intentions of the makers of the film (Rensil De Silva & KJo primarily) because that would be foolish but yes, it is irresponsible filmmaking & poorly researched/written film. Terrorism & identity politics have been the most burning issues of our time so it’s only natural that the popular culture also addresses it in its own way but please don’t make subtle versions of Gadars & Indians.
I have a grouse with Anurag Kashyap as well who has co-written the dialogues for Kurbaan. He always have had strong opinions about politics & society that’s evident by his films & his interviews. I really want to know why he agreed to become a part of such regressive storytelling? Because, as his fan, it makes a difference to me.
The story of Kurbaan is written by Karan Johar who’s next directorial is the SRK starrer ‘My Name is Khan’ which most probably again is an issue based (read terrorism/Muslim identity) film wrapped warmly in a love story coming to a theatre near you in the winters of February.
I hope he hasn’t f****d that up!
Tags: Anurag Kashyap, Dia Mirza, Karan Johar, Kareena Kapoor, Om Puri, rensil de silva, Saif Ali Khan, vivek Oberoi
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Rahul Dholakia
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Varma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Sachin Kundalkar
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Yaar Syed… no offence… bahut ho gaya yaar…
Kurbaan
Reviewers…
Would somebody like to talk about Yunus Parvez and Joginder?
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@PS…the moment I hear Joginder what flashes in front of my eyes is that scene where he dances while going for his morning call with lota in his hand in some kind bush or jungle…awesome
…know which movie it is from?
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@Sudip. Its from Ranga Khush.
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YUP… RANGA KHUSH!!! one heck of a ham performer no clue where Joginder got his money to fund his movies… KRK lately reminds me of Joginder…
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Munis you wish muslims to be portrayed in a non-sterotypical manner. You wish them to be portrayed, in a manner, which they are not. While for a film maker presenting stereotypes builds a comfort level with the audience, because the crux of his story is something different.
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Johar is just pissed at Sena that’s why he’s taking islam’s side lol
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@PS – whts the deal with joginder?..wht reminded you of him?
@VJ – “..You wish them to be portrayed, in a manner, which they are not. While for a film maker presenting stereotypes builds a comfort level with the audience, because the crux of his story is something different..” – i didnt get wht u r tryin to say bro..plz be more clear if u cud
Thanks
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Syed… My response was in line that I think in the last one week all I have been seeing is way too many posts and too much of introspection into either cinema reviewers and critics or Kurbaan … it started getting to me that what can be another response to a post now becomes another post and gets published, to start the same chain of reactions over and over again … Yunuz Parvez and Joginder are my express highway into mindless non thinking zone of cinematic iditocy to be laughed over…
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Agreeing within certain percentages, with most of what you ‘ve written there are quite a few issues that are continously brought out which makes me wonder if things are being plunderred way too much … I watched the movie after reacting to other posts (shouldn’t have!!) anyways my views to what you ve in your post…
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Your post talks of the same issues over and over again, I am not able to see anything new offered compared to all the otherposts, so one of my immediate reaction was not again, at least now I expect some evolvement of thoughts and different post than just keep stressing on Kurbaan… maybe a post on how film making and depicting of characters is going through changes…. right from 60s 70s stereotyping of muslims has always been there…. from this sachhcha dost jubaan ka pakka life giving person to today, token tributes have been continuously paid to the ‘community’ (which I am pretty sure the common men who make any community can aaram se do without) … if your post had anything comparison of how film making has stopped paying these tokens and if the depiction is in right way or wrong, with say maybe a line over Mammo, Zubeida and Fiza and New York, and somewhere in the middle the other ‘muslim’ characters played mostly by Mukesh Rishi and kinds and then spoken about Kurbaan, then it was a step forward…
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Within your post there are quite a few things I can agree on and few things I have an issue on … starting from taking this as the whole description of our muslim community…. agreed a disclaimer in the beginning could have helped…. and maybe in the current climate of time to time unrest(which seems like its not ceasing at all) this wasn’t the best movie to come out, but cinematically Kurbaan was upfront in terms of talking about only a few, who are muslims… they dont represent the whole community, but the movie is about terror planners who happen to be muslims, end of it… yes… it was disturbing to me as well, but to see in the light that its created in, it was to the point…. agreed Vivek O was a token, but never was a ‘too much factor’ done that -’okay I show 1 bad character, I need to show some good character’ and kinds… it was bang story about these people and their set…. once again agreeing it disturbed me as well, but thats how hard hitting movies need to be, to stop playing to all possible galleries….
Totally agree on the unnecessary dialogues between VO and Kulbushan Karbanda. It was badly shot where it was maybe making an unintentional juvenile attempt that the world is divided between Muslims and America (it was very silly, even if VO’s dialogue was we are muslims and americans, it would ve made sense!)….
Comparing VO vs KK’s version of dialogues, it was never there to show a clean shaven VO as a moderate but it was again an attempt to show more of VO talking in the ghetto ideas to impress Saif…. not even once was this subject shown being spoken in the right tone or direction, however again the movie did not try to veer away into paying tributes (a small sorry with some scenes)… regarding SAK playing a professor… again disturbing… but its also been true a lot of the recent day terrorists who were found were peaceful and talking in the right sense of things…. this was more or less one ssuch character who possibly did all this to make sure he was never under suspicions…
Bhaijaan sabke haath mei Quran Pakda de, was indeed supposed to be a potent dialogue…. and I actually thought of ‘hathyar’ only after you mentioned… then again the movie worked around 8 individuals… and for all tokenism there still was a muslim girl wanting to foil the plans and killed all that and more… thankfully it was underplayed…
Here is where I have the bigger issue … “To be moderate, Rehana, a journalist, must wear business suits with its top shirt button open , must have a boyfriend & thus show no sign of her ‘Muslimness’ ” …. I do not know if anybody else felt that Hijab was the symbol of supression in Islam, but for sure from your statement somewhere the idea comes across that a Girl in business uniform cannot be muslim or may not be accepted as a muslim woman and this is a mockery…. these were not attempts to create a moderate muslim, but more or less general urban women…. there are school girls who go to school in uniforms, business ladies in US do wear business suits to offices and it has nothing to do with being a moderate…. what disappointed me was “top shirt button open and a boyfriend” … COME ON MAN…. thats what you saw and feel as a wrongful depiction of “moderate muslims”??? agreed these were token characters but the shirt top button (Which was a pretty unecessary observation) open as the moderate muslim was no where communicated…. I am not sure who felt Hijabs were the symbols of suppression, but man, this was nowhere felt like “see the moderates are shown like the world” attempt…
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As much as I was taken aback by Kurbaan, I also feel that it has more or less turned out to be a good venture…. not commercially, but even to force,generate and evoke responses like say yours and KM’s so many others, finally we have the voice of audience that is asking to stop stereotyping and paying token tributes…. according to me it has finally moved one step forward and another couple of movies like this will force another wave of cinema that will push for how this is not the representation, and something more meaningful will come out… and moving from there we wont have characters who would need to have distinct identity of maybe Ins. Salim, but the characters can more or less be one amongst the 3 in DCH… we won’t need to have KM feel that Masood bhai was called out as a token tribute, but look at the overall movie with a main character like circuit who is not given and background…
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@Crusader… I strongly urge you to refrain from quoting things like ‘”majority” of non muslims’…. I am not denying that typecasting doesnt happen, but I know of almost nobody who has done typecasting on the basis of certain individuals, be it to our muslim community or our hindu community, this would still not make me quote that “majority” are like this…. more often than not I might think xy&z are possibly having sterotypes on their minds, and z think xy&me are having it…..
In case you and your roommate did then its fortunate that you guys got to know each other… make sure to spread the good word around…
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Khalid Mohammed’s review caused a lot of blood-spilling by the commentators, not all of it in good taste. I hope it doesn’t happen here.
I am not pleading KJo’s case here. But where does Kurbaan say that Muslims turn to terrorism because of Hizb etc? Isn’t the corelation only in your mind? If a film is about Muslim characters, there will be hizb-clad women in it, no?
What do you mean by “signs of Muslimness”? Aren’t you thinking in stereotypes as well? Why should a business suit be thought of as an “un-Muslim” thing?
What is so dangerous about the Quran dialogue, I didn’t understand. It was just one character talking about another. Besides, if the guy was teaching Islamic studies and secretly planning to bomb America, why should that be offensive either? If he taught economics and spoke openly of jehad, will that be less offensive?
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I think PFC is being rather unfair by permitting articles such as this one but disallowing commentators the freedom to comment. Bar the abusive ones by all means, but if a blogger can talk about offence to Muslims, others can talk about offence caused to non-Muslims as well. No?
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@Sanjot
wht do u mean by “hizb-clad women”..do u define hijab/burkha wearing muslim women with reference to a particular political group..this is exactly the kind of slotting im tryin to talk abt..why do u hv to see everythin Muslim with a political point of view??..when i say “signs of Muslimsness” I’m only talkin abt the perception that the film promotes..teachin Islamic studies on one hand & planting a bomb offends coz it sends unhealthy signals abt Islam – why cudnt the makers make Ehsaan teach some other subject other than that – maybe Political Science/Anthropology or Sociology??..wht ws the point that they were tryin to put across??..same goes fr the ‘Quran’ dialogue in ‘Bhaijaan’s’ home..yes, if they had shown teaching “economics & speaking openly about Jehad” it wud hv been less offensive but offensive nonetheless if, they had addressed the concept of ‘Jehad’ in the same manner as u r doing here..Jehad is not holy war..leave that..Jehad doesnt even necessarily mean war but thats an entirely different area of discussion..the muslim extremists & militant groups r more responsible fr distorting the term ‘Jihad’ by killing innocents, than anybody else is..
@Viraaj & PFC
i request the PFC guys to let the comments be as less filtered as possible..personally i wont have a problem even if a commentator is offensive..i wud like to read as many views as possible
thanks
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Stereotyping is a very standard technique in commercial Hindi films. The commercial film-makers usually work on the presumption that a large section of its audience will be of low IQ and hence make sure that they underline every idea they try to put through.
In this particular case, they wanted to drive home the idea that beneath the veneer of civility, Saif was a hardcore and hence the underlining —- he had to teach Islamic studies. They wanted to drive home the idea that Dia and Vivek were moderates and hence they underlined it in the ways you mentioned. So, if you have a problem with this, you should have a problem with so many other films where the film-makers decide to highlight their messages in a crude kind of way.
But I am guessing your problem lies elsewhere. Your problem is probably not with the fact that the plot points have been underlined but with the way they have been underlined. Being a Muslim yourself (and I am guessing, a liberal one), you are probably annoyed at the way the Muslims have been typecast. Let me tell you one thing then : it’s a sad story but it’s also true that a majority of non-Muslims in India have Muslims typecast in their mind in exactly the same way — as extremely religious-minded and in most cases, as female-oppressors. My room-mate here in US is a Muslim and I was surprised to find that he had been to a mosque only once or twice in life and did not care about the existence of Allah. My subconscious mind had this idea all along that a non-believing Muslim was a non-existent concept. I actually told him so, and he in turn told him something interesting :”Just like you look at the bearded guys and draw in your mind the conception of a Muslim, we too look at the Praveen Togadia-s and Balasaheb Thackeray-s and draw in our mind the conception of a Hindu.”
So, here’s what I think happened : since a majority of our population still have this conception of a Muslim in their mind, the film-makers decided to cash on this mindset and made a movie
on it. I agree with you— this is totally irresponsible and only serves to perpetuate the division in our society. In fact, to be honest, the very fact that the film-makers think people will lap up such portrayals tells us that our society even today is a very much divided one.
Hope I have not hurt any sentiments here — I was only trying to explain why “Kurbaan” had to be made like this.
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I think you understand this, but I’ll say it anyway: even if stereotyping is fine, it shouldn’t be done in places where the propagation of the stereotype is dangerous.
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Also, did you watch “Khuda ke liye” ? Do you have any problems with the portrayals there ? I am just curious.
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This is a very political post!! I don’t think PFC is and should be for political issues, there are countless other forums for that. This place is for cine lovers and cine related discussions. I have strong political views of my own. There are points you have made that I would strongly agree or disagree, but I would refrain from posting it here.
It’s up to the PFC admins, but i would request that we stay away from political issues. There is enough to rant about the mediocrity in our films without bringing the political angle in.
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Munis Syed
I understand your points, but this is just a movie. For education one reads text book, this is just entertainment. Within the limits of the format, K Jo and the writers tried to be as balanced as possible. But a movie like “Kurbaan” costs a ton money, and they have the responsibility of recovering their cost. Someone (not you) took offense to the fact the heroine is “Avantika” not some “Salma”, clearly the desire was just to make sure that the majority of the Indians would be engaged. It does not compromise the narrative. It does not make the movie less exciting. You cannot begrudge the producers for attempting to make their investments safe.
I agree that the movie lost an opportunity to show that most Muslims women wear a “Hijaab” because they choose to do so. In fact in a lot of the self proclaimed Muslim countries, women are battling the authorities to uphold their right to dress in manner of their choosing, and in a manner they feel most comfortable, i.e. wear a Hijaab. But that would be another movie; it would be a documentary on Muslim women while Kurbaan is an out and out thriller.
My read of the classroom scenes are very different from yours. I believe that Saif’s character understands that Islam is a mercy to mankind, and that the religion preaches tolerance, but is so crippled by his emotional loss and “Bhaijan’s” influence that he is unable to act in appropriate Muslim manner. Whereas, Vivek’s character (in the classroom and the dinner table) is just saying whatever facts about Islam that he has heard, probably from his father, to win over Saif / Bhaijan. I think these scenes are so effective in making a case for Islam without being preachy. To me these scenes balance out the BS about Islam that Bhaijan & Co say.
I see Saif”s Ehsaan, restrained by his inner conflict, restrained by the truth, yet unable to overcome his grief, till Bebo’s anguish makes him overcome his own pain, and releases the Muslim in him. I see his release in the light of New York Univerisity’s Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine, Dr John E Sarno’s theory. I personally believe (and Gallup’s study of Muslim mind will agree) that if only we could show this insignificant minority (the Bhaijan & Co) how much pain they are inflicting on humankind, they will forget their own losses (which is what that drives them), and return to the true path of Islam, i.e. the peaceful path. Hence, although Kurbaan is merely a thriller, perhaps a very subtle and profound love story, it makes one of the most brilliant points ever made about terrorism. I recommend that you see that again through the prism of what I have stated.
I saw Kurbaan in US along with a visitor from India. He and I have really lost touch and contact, unable to fill the awkward silence I took him to the movie. In one of the scenes where Bebo removes her top and lunges on Saif (a much hyped scene), the guy (visitor from India) whispered, “Kya Doodh Peelakar Soolane Ka Iirada Hai ?” Loosely translated, “Does she intend to just feed him and put him to bed”. The lady sitting next to him got very annoyed. I too asked him to shut up. But as the scene unfolded, he was pleased with Saif and Bebo’s intimate scene. He liked the happy climax. Likewise, I think the movie requires some tolerance/patience, in the end, it is pretty satisfying. But it is a movie, not a documentary on Islam.
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Shaan Khan,
(But it is a movie, not a documentary on Islam.) … (and whole comment)
As Paa is a film and not a documentary on PROGERIA.
Such a swift and convinient shifting in the approach is really admirable.
What about a comparative study on The Miracle Worker, Rainman, My Left Foot, Forest Gump, Paa, Kurbaan and My Name is Khan etc etc?
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Rk
In this thread I am discussion “Kurbaan”. Please restrict your comments to the discussion here.
Additionally note my comments on cross reference etc in the “other thread”.
Hope that settles it.
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Shaan, well explained. I wanted to write all that you wrote, (except the doodh peelakar sulana..), but felt it would be lost out, since the author seems to be hell bent that Kurbaan did not treat muslims and Islam in a manner that he feels right
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Munis, stereotyping is second nature to bollywood – even hollywood- so why have such a big issue about hizb or whatever? Hindi films routinely make caricatures of Sikhs, Tamils, Biharis, Marathis, Goans, Gujaratis.. everyone. Secondly, the religious dimension is integral to the plot of Kurbaan so they had to show hardline and moderate Muslims. Thirdly, in films like Fizaa, Anwar, Parzania, Thakshak etc, they showed Hindutva fanatics with saffron headbands/scarves. Isn’t that stereotyping too, by your own logic? One could argue that these people could have been shown wearing jeans. The question is, does this stereotyping add to the dramatic impact? Bcoz that is all that popular cinema is about, after all.
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Munis, stereotyping is second nature to bollywood – even hollywood- so why have such a big issue about hizb or whatever? Hindi films routinely make caricatures of Sikhs, Tamils, Biharis, Marathis, Goans, Gujaratis.. everyone. Secondly, the religious dimension is integral to the plot of Kurbaan so they had to show hardline and moderate Muslims. Thirdly, in films like Fizaa, Anwar, Parzania, Thakshak etc, they showed Hindutva fanatics with saffron headbands/scarves. Isn’t that stereotyping too, by your own logic? One could argue that these people could have been shown wearing jeans. The question is, does this stereotyping add to the dramatic impact? Bcoz that is all that popular cinema is about, after all. Isn’t it?
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@the crusader
i agree with u on some thots but.. “..beneath the veneer of civility, Saif was a hardcore and hence the underlining —- he had to teach Islamic studies..” – i dnt know wht u mean by ‘hardcore’..if it means hardcore in a Talibanised way then yes i object to Ehsaan teaching Islamic studies no matter wht point the makers r tryin to make..my problm is with the slotting of Islam on the basis of politics & that too reactionary politics..
“..it’s a sad story but it’s also true that a majority of non-Muslims in India have Muslims typecast in their mind in exactly the same way” – yes its true n its also true that many Muslims hv Hindu typecasts in their mind..there r Sikh typecasts..Christian & Parsi typecasts..Muslims alone r nt the victim of stereotyping there..but yes due to recent international scene Muslims r obviously under the scanner & end up being typecast more..for me films/cinema is a medium that has tremendous uniting power n thats coz its portrays common aspirations & common tragedies irrespective of wht one’s religion,language or caste is..so when filmmakers take up subjects that hv strong political/religious connotations to it they shud at least research well & be responsible in portrayals of identities..
“..Just like you look at the bearded guys and draw in your mind the conception of a Muslim, we too look at the Praveen Togadia-s and Balasaheb Thackeray-s and draw in our mind the conception of a Hindu” – i disagree here..we dnt make a perception of a Muslim by their beards or how they look/dress..& u too shudnt make perceptions abt a Hindu by looking at the gentlemen like whose names u hv mentioned..if so, we wud b doin great disservice to our communities & hence to the nation.
i dnt mind filmmakers cashing on the emotions but if there is smth i feel is irresponsible i must register my protest..
no offence taken dude..n yes u define “liberal” for me & I’ll honestly tell u if i fit ur definition or not
thanks
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@Patwardhan
i agree with u..yes i hv already said that Muslims r nt the only one who gets stereotyped..so whenever u feel so go ahead & “make a big issue out of it” & let others hear u..best of luck
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@the crusader
yes I have watched Khuda Kay Liye..there r stereotypes in that film too but i think it makes it point well enough..i dnt think very highly abt the film anyway – content wise or otherwise..it wsnt as powerful as ppl make it out to be..maybe coz it ws first of its kind & that too comin out of Pakistan ppl got excited..Kabir Khan’s ‘new york’ ws relatively better than ‘khuda kay liye’ & ‘kurbaan’
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@A.Singh
yes this is a very political post coz the film is political & im a cine lover so i posted it here..im thankful to PFC fr goin ahead with it
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Stereotyping or not. This was a poorly made movie. It was flawed from start to end.
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@Shaan Khan
“My read of the classroom scenes are very different from yours….To me these scenes balance out the BS about Islam that Bhaijan & Co say.” – i didnt see any of it in the film..maybe i missed smth or u r being hypothetical
“I see Saif”s Ehsaan, restrained by his inner conflict, restrained by the truth, yet unable to overcome his grief, till Bebo’s anguish makes him overcome his own pain….it makes one of the most brilliant points ever made about terrorism. I recommend that you see that again through the prism of what I have stated” – i wud hv seen it again immediately if the film at least been a decent thriller irrespective of wht i think abt the ‘ideology’ of the film..but its nt that..do u mean to say KJo & Rensil know abt Dr John E Sarno’s theory & expected viewers to know abt it too??…i see a point when u say “…that if only we could show this insignificant minority (the Bhaijan & Co) how much pain they are inflicting on humankind, they will forget their own losses (which is what that drives them)” but if that is so Bhaijaan shud hv had a transformation in the film which doesnt happen…I dnt think Ehsaan/Khalid “overcome his pain”..he reacts when he comes to know that Bhaijaan has secretly planted bombs in the bags of the women of their house..maybe he feels betrayed & then wht he does afterwards is a reaction of that..i dont know wht u mean by “..Muslim being released..”
i know its a movie & not a documentary..i dnt wana see a documentary..i ws expecting a decent political thriller..
while watching the film i felt that two actors who r involved romantically in real life shudnt play a couple in a film coz I think Saif-Kareena’s chemistry, biology or whtever was not even half as hot as kareena’s back in the film
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Let us first thank you for responding without attacking me. But having said that, let me also tell you that you still retain the right to repudiate me, and distance yourself (later on), if the need so arises.
(just a joke).
I hope you agree that Saif does say some really positive things (the truth about Islam) in the Classroom and at the dinner table. Now it is for you to conclude why ? Was he just blowing smoke in the classroom or testing Vivek at the dinner table ? I say that you cannot answer that without first answering why he appear very restraint ? (in the NYC portions)
Please allow me …
In the scenes in India, he is somewhat carefree (“for lack of a better word”). That I purport is that carefree person is the misguided Saif, the tarined killer. That is the guy who encountered the Cops or kills the guy at the pup.
But…
After the girl across the street has a talk with Kareena, he becomes very restrained. He appears very burdened. I say that he did not give a flying fig till he was not vested vis a vis Bebo. Once he realizes that he really is falling for her (BTW Bhaijaan & Aapa realize that even before he does), the conflict in him begins. Progressively the Lover/Muslim in him begins to wake up.
Hence ….
In the classroom, and with Vivek it is the inner voice, the truth that is coming out. I agree that Bhaijaan’s planting of a bomb in Kareena’s bag, is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back. The possible death of his innocent love is just too unbearable. Bebo’s pain finally replaces his own loss (details of such can be found by researching Dr John E Sarno).
I say that the reawakened Saif is better than the American Born Confused Muslim, Vivek. Saif finally hits back because he finally gets “The Truth”, Vivek is just another version of the former Saif (a confused person seeking revenge).
BTW Sarno’s theory is very old and in some form or the other well known around the world. We all know the theory but don’t know that Dr Sarno is behind it. I mentioned it to explain my view.
Now why does Bhaijaan, Aaapa and Saif have to die. It is cinematic justice, it makes good cinema, it puts arse on the seats. I know you did not like that move, but name me a good Bollywood thriller ? For a Bollywood movie, Kurbaan was a good thriller (trees that fall in the deep forest do not count as examples, I ask for the name of a big budget commercial thriller).
Again I understand that you did not like the Saif/bebo pairing, but that scene where they are hanging stuff in their new house, that was smoking. Bebo, BTW, in the back dress waiting for Saif outside some mosque in Delhi, looked so beautiful that I have no hesitation in saying that she is the most beautiful Indian gal I have seen, Subhan Allah.
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i think i am gonna watch the movie,just to see what’s the whole fuss about… did the same with wake up sid! was really disappointed… but what the hell
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@Shaan Khan
alright..i think u r lookin at the film with a different perspective than I am so i feel we wont stop discussing it..maybe its me who missed smth or u who missed smth in the film but im nt goin to watch Kurbaan again in the immediate future coz it wsnt good enough film as well..best of luck
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@PS
alrite got you..
“Your post talks of the same issues over and over again….then spoken about Kurbaan, then it was a step forward…” – maybe i bring up “same issue again & again” coz thats wht i took home..im nt a scholar of cinema so i cnt write nt just on any topic related to it..60s 70s cinema..muslim socials..all those things..i wsnt born at that time & i didnt see those films nt coz i dnt see films frm that time space but maybe coz some films just are not appealing enough..i hvnt really seen Zubeida..Fiza was alright..i like it more coz of Hrithik Roshan’s rawness in his performance which he certainly has lost now..Mammo was a very personal story with political/historical undertones & rensil de silva shows no sign of being shyam benegal in terms of maturity..my point is not that dont show Muslims as extremists or terrorists..do show them bt try to be responsible n smart with it..
” they dont represent the whole community, but the movie is about terror planners who happen to be muslims, end of it” – exactly wht im saying..they dnt represent the whole community but to me the film sends out the message otherwise..there hv also been numerous stories abt the lifestyles of these terrorists which hv nothin to do with religion..like one of the bombers of 9/11 Mohd Atta, acc. to a docu on National Geographic had call girls in his hotel room just few days before the bombings..same goes for many other stories..there ws this another story of an Indonesian hardliner who was a hardcore ‘western’ i.e. boozing,goin to night clubs etc etc..my point here is that why do always the Muslimness hv to be emphasised when showing a Muslim terrorists..afterall the reasons for the conflict between the ‘Muslims’ & ‘the rest’ are more political than religious..
“it was never there to show a clean shaven VO as a moderate but it was again an attempt to show more of VO talking in the ghetto ideas to impress Saif” – i disagree..i stand by what i said..i also thot abt that Vivek’s Riyaz talk abt more ‘Muslim innocents’ being killed than the ‘white American innocents’ cud hv been to impress Ehsaan but acc to me no it wsnt the case..i think Vivek’s Riyaz meant what he said in the classroom
“regarding SAK playing a professor… again disturbing… but its also been true a lot of the recent day terrorists who were found were peaceful and talking in the right sense of things” – plz give at least one or two examples..n acc to u if these terrorists spoke “in the right sense of things” then why dont we address their problem..SAK’s Ehsaan made me think of the case of a Delhi University Kashmiri Prof. who was accused in the involvement in the Parliament attacks..as far as i know the guy has been acquitted..my grouse is that the only other Muslims professor in the college, Mr.Qureshi, other than SAK’s Ehsaan was also a part of the “sleeper cell”
“but for sure from your statement somewhere the idea comes across that a Girl in business uniform….but more or less general urban women” – i agree when u say “pretty unecessary observation”..the “top shirt button” remark maybe in bad taste but i mean it & stand by wht i meant to say thru that..Dia Mirza’s Rehana was in contrast with the women in Bhaijaan’s household esp. Nauheed Cyrusi’s Salma
yes Kurbaan sure seem to hv sparked a debate on internet if not on TV, which is more powerful & influential medium than internet..but a debate nonetheless..so thats good!
thanks
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Munis perhaps feels that post-Kurbaan he will be answering too many questions about his name, beard, hizb, fast, opinions etc. That seems to be the reason for his being upset. But he must understand that Kurbaan is neither the first nor the last film to promote stereotypes and Muslims are neither the first nor the last community to be stereotyped. Does Munis feel happy when reverse stereotypes are promoted? Like an alcoholic Muslim (Devgan’s Hindustan Ki Kasam), merciless Muslim gangsters (many films) or a bold Muslim actress (Woh Lamhe)? Does he feel happy when characters are Muslim but their religion is hardly a plot point? (Uday Chopra in Dhoom, Pran in Zanjeer etc)? Are such utterly benign depictions of Muslims as ‘Coolie’ or ‘Mere Mehboob’ are the only ones which are acceptable in popular cinema?
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Stereotypes build a comfort level with the audience. Meaning the exact things that you mentioned in the article-hijab, etc for fundamentalist attitude and a general attire for a liberal muslim. As soon as you do that, the audience is at ease. Remember these points are not the core issue for the film maker. His story is something different.
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I could write specific things about the sterotypes but will not because yall are too attached with your religion and take offense easily.
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But for your sake, why should the non-muslims be subjected to this scrutiny? Its like take our permission before showcasing Islam or muslims?
Anything remotely connected with Islam and out come the daggers with how they should be projected and what should not be shown.
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@Patwardhan & VJ
guys i cnt do anything if u dnt get my point..u will only think that im reacting as a Muslim coz i made that clear..yes im reacting as a Muslim if thats wht u want to hear..sorry fr gettn u agitated..best of luck
@VJ – “why should the non-muslims be subjected to this scrutiny? Its like take our permission before showcasing Islam or muslims?” – if this is so then its u who is to blame..y r u gettn “subjected to scrutiny”..go & visit other pages on net but this..im nt askin to take permission coz I neither hv the power or any inclinations like Raj Thackeray..its shameful that u took my views that way..best of luck
thanks
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Munis, the aim is to contextualize the film, not corner anyone over personal beliefs. My question is rather simple. Are you annoyed at Kurbaan kind of stereotyping or at stereotyping in general? The examples I gave above are also stereotypes and someone may take offence at them also! Popular cinema is by definition, simplistic and has to create simplistic characters in order to create a dramatic impact on maximum viewers. In fact, Aamir Khan’s DJ in RDB is also a stereotype of a Delhiite! But look how he adds to the whole experience!Same goes for hockey players in Chak De. Most of the ‘college students’ in our films are stereotypes. And so are the ‘token Muslims’ in most films! Kurbaan is a film which, for all its stupidities, has the courage to put across to all a story built around (unfortunately) common image of Muslim characters. So what is wrong? I am sure once the subject finds its grammer in a couple of films, Muslim characters will start looking more authentic and more real.
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@Patwardhan
fine if u r ok with stereotyping..u seem to b priveleged to think like that..i really hope u r able to understand others thru tokenism..till then i will wait for “the subject finds its grammer”..best of luck
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Anyone read this? http://www.thevigilidiot.com/2009/11/21/kurbaan/
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