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Maa ki aankh Pseudos !!!
Maa ki aankh Pseudos !!!
Snippets of conversation with a cinema literate person -
Me - Hey how was Manorama Six Feet Under ?
He - Felt really bad
WHY ???
There was too much time spent on the romantic angle between Abhay and Gul…
Are you kidding ? Mid life crisis and a normal “middle class married life” has not been depicted as well in a hindi film ever.At least not that I can remember … In any case that is not the point of the film…
May be …
MAY BE ??? hello what do you know about mid life crisis or middle class couple ?? I know a little … My mom and dad … middle class government officer …How would you know ?? You born with a silver spoon in your mouth and a golden nose ring in your lap …. How would you know how a middle class wife badgers her husband for a new saree or a necklace???
Anyways .. I was just watching Parinda’s ending …. Its literally hair raising… The manner in which Jackie burns Anna.. when he sees the jhoola and he is immideatly reminded of the suhaag raat waala jhoola… What a brilliant ending … the deafening south indian classical background score … the expressions of Nana .. Jackie talking so much with his eyes alone …
I haven’t seen Parinda. Did you see on the Waterfront from which Parinda is a copy ??
Hello … I’ve seen On the Waterfront ..and Parinda isn’t a copy of that.. Ghulam is …
Oh … Ok
End of conversation ….
Just goes onto show we indians are used to being ruled over by the “white skins” (sorry for the racist term)…despite 200 odd years of indian history. We will not rave about an Ek Chalis but DeathProof.. Not a blackfriday/Sehar but an American History X.
And you say that you are working in hindi films … What nerve !!!
Let me make it clear that I’m not against “foreign cinema” or “world cinema”. My only point of contention is that if you can talk and rave about foreign cinema .. then do us a favour and talk also how brilliant Drohkaal is …if you are talking about Departed. Do me favour and also talk about Satya, Company and Maqbool when you can watch and rave about Goodfellas(long and slightly boring towards the end) GodFather (Brilliant I admit)…You can talk at lengths about a Dancer in the Dark but also talk two lines about Shwaas ….
Maa ki Aankh .. Before i sound like Raj Thackrey …. I give up !!!
65 Responses to “Maa ki aankh Pseudos !!!”
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bollywood is accused of producing films like ‘race’
i don’t see any harm
‘race’ is like a ‘chewing gum’
you chew it, get some enjoyment
than spit it out
chewing gum is not injerious to health
it also does not give any nourishment
just some entertainment for some time
race is like chewing gum
enter cinema hall, enjoy three hours while you are there
coming out of cinema hall
forget about it, like you spit out chewing gum after chewing it for some time
one thing that i am unable to understand
what makes ‘mission impossible’ better than ‘race’
both are ‘chewing gum cinema’
all style, no content
8-}<:-p
that’s probably the best analogy i’ve heard with regards to masala films. in fact, i don’t even think i’ll call them masala or popcorn films anymore. i’m gonna call ‘em bubble gum films.
than there is nourishing cinema
cinema of this kind nourishes the viewer
like ’swadesh’ or ‘tare zamien per’
no body cares that bollywood produces nourishing cinema too.
with my limit about facts of cinema
i am hard pressed to find an example
of nourishing cinema from hollywood
i have not seen much of auteur cinema from west
but whatever i have seen it is even worse than what hollywood produces
at least ‘chewing gum cinema of hollywood does not do any harm
autuer cinema can make one sick.
compare western auteur with films like ’spring summer fall winter … and spring’ or ‘passage to buddha’. and you will realize what nourishing cinema is possible of.
^:)^
as i was writing last para i remembered ‘peaceful warrior’
@};-
striker
;;)
I try to watch one hindi film a week and have only loved two this year ie TZP and Mithya. The rest while probably are good films just don’t relate to my sensibilities. Also my fav genres like scifi and psychological thrillers are rarely even attempted.
I don’t feel any particular loyalty to watch Hindi films on the basis of their origin. I watch films strictly on their merit and language or origin is of no importance to me. I would love to watch regional cinema but getting copies with decent subs is almost impossible for me.
Now let me ask you a hypothetical question. Suppose film A comes out and is championed by all and sundry for it being quite innovative. So when we judge it do we compare it just to Hindi language films or to the rest of the world. And that would include non-white skinned cinema like Korea, HK, Mexico and Brazil.
In other words do we give a film a handicap similar to golf or let it be a battle amongst equals.
IT would be interesting to have MR PLAYBACK to comment on ithis article..
I see movies of all languages. Today only I saw a movie called 13 Tzameti on World Movies. A thriller to the core it is easily one of the best movies I have ever seen.
I see films of all languages. I guess some of the south indian films are also directed well.
Now to the topic at hand. I know a few people who don’t like bollywood films but I don’t care about what they say. Because categorising films on the basis of nationality is not good. Films are good or bad. Well-made or badly-made. So is the case with Music.
Saying “I don’t watch bollywood films is same as saying I don’t watch all good films.”
BTW, Manorama Six Feet Under ROCKED!!!
@kartik
I agree with you. But don’t you think there are people on the opposite end as well who would defend ANYTHING coming out of the indian cinema industry just because…? That is another set of Pseudos. The tough path is to take a middle one. Na ghar kA na ghAt kA :)
Manorama is one of the best adaptations I have seen in a very long time and yes, it is a lovely movie!
@vishrant
I concur. I can’t recall any foreign / hollywood film I’ve watched which has made me cry. There are a few desi ones which have. I’m not sure if that speaks more about the films or its viewers.
@Mithun
Don’t tell me you have never met any pseuds who rave about every single hollywood flick!
It is not a question of loyalty.
Weren’t you arguing some time back that a making a good movie on a life that one has not lived, experienced or witnessed is difficult?
What about the audience? Don’t you think a good movie that is closer to one’s life would affect a person more than a movie that is cinematically better but is about a kind of life he/she has never seen or things he/she has never even heard of?
btw KK is ‘Kuruthipunal’ drohkaal in tam?
@ Sarang
“Na ghar na ghat ka” hahah … kahawat ka achha application (for lack of better Hindi vocabulary)
A good film is a good film, regardless of where it’s from (there’s a good discussion about this on Koffee with Karan when Rahul Bose and Konkona were invited - trust me, it’s unlike any of its other episodes). I think the people who Karthik speaks of are people who have given up on Bollywood. They’re not giving it a second chance, which they should because at this point in time, it is changing for the better (options in genre). We still have crap being made, lots of it. But if we look hard enough, there are some gems. To find them, you need to get your hands dirty. Some people want to pile through the shit to find the gem, some don’t. Like Mule says in Satya, “keechad mein bhi kamal khilta hai”. Bas dhoondne ko maangta hai …
Btw, what is MSFU apapted from?
Kartik
Some corrections according to me.
SATYA is a much much better film than Departed. So is Maqbool & Company.
99% of Indians who have seen Black Friday, rave about it. I don’t know where you meet people who criticize that particular film.
Ek Chalis is inspired by Tarantino. 2 of the scenes are completely lifted from Pulp Fiction. It was the director’s tribute to his inspiration & he did not disguise it. But I dont get your comparision between DeathProof & Ek Chalis. The director is heavily influenced by Tarntino. Thats all. They both have car chases. But lets not even think of comparing them.
Vishrant Sir
Again I fail to decipher your comments. Can you explain the term “nourishing cinema”?
Do you mean Films with message for the audience?
Your 2 examples lead me to think that.
Once you can give a detailed defination i’m sure the film fanatics of PFC will give you many examples.
*************
Last Film - GOOD NIGHT & GOOD LUCK(3.5/5)
Music - COMMON
Book - GOD is not GREAT
@Neeraja
My entire point is that the audience is free to choose whatever he/she would like to see. I can’t relate to 95% of the Bollywood films I see. But I don’t go around calling people who like mainstream Bollywood films idiots or philistines.
Similarly why should anyone call me or someone who doesn’t Bollywood a pseudo just coz my tastes and interests lie elsewhere? In a global village such as the one we have today such theories are antiquated.
I’ll give you an example. Two of the most popular sports in India right now are Cricket and Football both of which are of foreign origin. Cricket is popular coz our team is world class and are contenders. Football is getting more popular by the day but only European Leagues and not the domestic ones.
Why? Coz to be honest the level and style of playing is sub par. India doesn’t even qualify for the World Cup finals. Why would anyone watch Mohun Bagan play when they can watch Arsenal? But they do and Mohun Bagan has a fantastic loyal fanbase.
They are not idiots for supporting Mohun Bagan and I’m not a pseudo for supporting Arsenal.
Some of the most brilliant film-makers I have come across in Bombay don’t even make feature films coz they know that their sensibilities are such that their films will never recover money and they don’t want to dilute their vision. So they stick to commercials and documentaries. Are they pseudos too ?
This issue isn’t really bout language or culture. It’s basically about why does anyone expect that everybody to like exactly what he likes or think exactly like he does. One of my friends thinks David Lean is trash whom I worship and loves Godard whom I don’t like that much. Should we stop being friends ?
Mainstream Hollywood makes more trash than Bollywood does but when they do make good films it leaves Bollywood in the dust. Name me one Bollywood film with a script as good as that of “The Prestige” or a performance like Daniel Day-Lewis in “There will be Blood”.
MFSU was one of my fav films last year and I dragged people to watch it who hadn’t even heard of about the film. And this was in Bombay. But MFSU is a neo-noir film , a genre that didn’t even exist in India till few years ago. If Navdeep hadn’t seen all the classic noir films do you think MFSU would have been possible ?
If I want to make a scifi epic in Bollywood should I watch “Blade Runner” and “Metropolis” or “Fun2shh Dudes in the 10th Century” ?
@neeraja (11)
yes! with added ‘kamal’rasam and xtra salt
@Mithun
You better not call Mohan bagan fans Idiots. I have seen them play 3 times in my life. Then I moved to Amdavad & slowly lost touch with the Domenstic Football. years later I became a Arsenal Fan.
Just like films. I can claim to love Mohan bagan & Arsenal at the same time.
@Mithun
“why should anyone call me or someone who doesn
@DPac
cool! will try to watch it asap. Thanks.
@Mainak
you too!
@Mithun
No, the point is not about expecting others to like what you like.
The point is that there IS a lot of blind admiration and bias towards the west, and not only in India but everywhere.
The point is that it is neither necessary nor acceptable to denounce bollywood cinema every time one compares it to foreign cinema. We have a lot of learn but we also make fine movies.
I forgot to ask, you said you watch one Hindi movie every week….that is one recently released Hindi movie?
*lot to learn
Guess at the end of the Day, i love watching all kinda movies be it Holly, Bolly, Tolly, Kolly or GlobalWood( Yeah just made up that term for international cinema).Honestly i think if u ask me,i judge movies on their merits. Nothing to do with East or West or North or South, or Black or White or Brown or Yellow.
Well i think as of now Bollywood cant compete with Hollywood still in the big budget stakes, but storywise we r improving. In recent times we had movies like Metro,Omkara, Dor, Black Friday, Johnny Gaddar to name a few, whose stories dont conform to the standard Bollywood formula.
As far as underworld movies genre, is concerned i think we are as good as what Hollywood or international cinema, produces. Maqbool, Satya, Parinda, Vaastav are the kind of gangster movies which can proudly take their place in the Gangster Movies Hall of Fame. For me Satya was as good as any international product, and Parinda was a movie way ahead of its times. While i do love Hollywood stuff, i dont back away from appreciating a Hindi movie too, and not just the arty farty stuff. I equally love watching the 70’s Masala movies as well as a standard Tollywood Masala flick.
@Pratik
MSFU had shades of Chinatown, but still it was a really good movie.
@ Karthik
For me Ek Chalis seemed to be more closer to Marty’s After Hours. Not sure if it is related to Death Proof.
@Mithun
Dada, i understand your point about India not having good sci fi or pyschological thrillers. But that is coz we never had the background as such.
Matter of fact even in the West, sci fi was considered as a B Grade Genre till the 60’s. It was only with movies like Star Wars, Blade Runner, 2001, Alien that this genre started to get respectability, but even now to date, sci fi is taken in the West mostly as entertainment, not considered art. This inspite of movies like Blade Runner, 2001 which are masterpieces in themselves. Also authors like Arthur Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan and others, provided the strong literary background for those movies. So they had a ready made source of material to make movies from. In sharp contrast India never had that tradition and unless i see new authors doing sci fi writing, i guess the only sci fi movies we will have are copies of Hollywood stuff.
About psychological thrillers, i think that is one area where we are moving forward. Kaun was the perfect one, but decades back in the 70’s, we had Yash Chopra comming up with a songless, pyschological thriller in Ittefaq. So i think its not too barren on that front.
I think what Kartik meant was let us appreciate Global cinema, but whenever a good Hindi or Indian movie comes along, give its due. That is what we dont do, even if some one comes up with a really good movie, we try to keep finding faults with it, but the same junta will go ooh and aah over every crappy Hollywood movie.
I haven’t come across anyone who disses Indian cinema and praises Hollywood exclusively either in India or America. If you mean those people who have gotten an American accent while living in South Bombay or Bandra their entire life then even having a conversation with them is futile and not worth the effort.
The idea here is to recognize that we are a diverse and non-homogenous culture and cherish it. You talk about difference in views between developed and developing nations (Third world is an archaic and derogatory term even more so when it’s self expressed). Let’s make it simpler.
Take a poll of two sets of people. One from Bandra and one from Bhayander. Their views on sex, marriage and religion won’t be similar. Now does Bandra have the moral ascendancy or Bhayander? Both have equal rights to co-exist and there is no need to browbeat the other into submission.
India is the only film market in the world apart from Korea and HK where the content is self generated and Hollywood hasn’t been able to make a dent. 95% of box office receipts in India come from domestic films. It’s an ultra-strong industry with legions of devoted fans so a few Hollywood fans aren’t gonna destroy or destabilize it.
If anything is smart and strong enough to survive it will. If it isn’t it will die out as is the law of evolution. After a certain point the difference between ours and theirs becomes nebulous. Cricket thrives and not gulli danda coz it’s a more evolved sport. Indian cinema has thrived for a long long time and will do so much better without a protectionist attitude.
Over the past months there has been a huge debate over the fact that so many Indian films are plagiarized. Even the audiences object to it now. Would any of this had happened if we didn’t have access to the original films on DVD and Cable.
I have heard successful directors and producers blame the audience for being cinema savvy and having watched the original films. They claim it makes their job tougher coz they have to find obscure films now. I for one prefer watching the original than watered down illegal remakes.
If original films like RDB, TZP, DCH, Munnabhai, Satya, Vastaav, Ab tak Chappan and Lagaan etc etc are made then I will cry myself hoarse singing it’s praises but don’t expect me to do so for any film just coz it’s Bollywood. My allegiance is to content and not origin or past laurels.
I think Shyam Benegal’s “Kalyug” is one of the greatest hindi films ever made yet I couldn’t watch past the first 30 mins of Bose. Ditto with Govind Nihalani. Worship “Ardh Satya” but none of his recent films can even be mentioned in the same breath.
Yep recently released hindi films. The last one I watched was Strangers. Didn’t like it. Really really want to watch Dibakar’s new film. If only more films like Khosla ka Ghosla are made.
@Mithun 24:
I have heard the comment from leading producers about: “If we don’t make the same movies (that is copy!) how will the local audience see??” “English movies don’t come here often and a lot of people do not understand!”
I am least surprised that now they have started complaining about the audience having access to originals!
I guess the concept of adaptation is ‘limited’ and content originality is least respected in our indian movie industry.
Talking about the movie “The Departed” do the movie makers give credit to the Hong Kong original? I loved the original “Infernal Affairs” way more! watched all the three parts.
They took the rights and gave credit as well. They wouldn’t have been able to release the film if they hadn’t. Infernal Affairs is way better than Departed. It’s a rare remake that’s better than the original.
@15-Mithun
Bravo. I couldnt have said better.
@27. you are saying infernal is better than departed. Then you follow it up with remake being better than original. Correct me , if I am wrong, isnt infernal affair the original one :-w
You misinterpret. What I said was that rarely are remakes better than the original.
@ Samrat (6) …at your service :) … Frankly, I dont see much point in this discussion … I will go with Mithun (5) - I dont discriminate films on the basis of their language or origin. To me all films speak the self same language of cinema. Interestingly, my two Hindi picks, from the year that was, are TZP ( yeah,…even after all the bashing !) and Mithya. MSFU, unfortunately, didnt appeal to me …found it very badly written, replete with tech snags and misdirected.( More about this in a later post.)
However,…the one debate of intrigue which emanates from this string is “ARE THERE GOOD FILMS & BAD FILMS ?” or is it simply “TO EACH HIS OWN” ? ( As Mithun has expressed above )
I am really curious to know what this forum feels about the issue.
The implication being that EITHER any artistic / creative product cannot be compared / categorised in hierarchy within or outside of its class OR the presence of “benchmarks of excellence” in a medium which facilitate comparative analysis.
It is simply “TO EACH HIS OWN”…according to me..
@31 Why playback, weren’t you the one who said that Amitabh Bachchan doesn’t know acting and he knows it?
@24 Mithun, well said and I couln’t agree more on Kalyug. Such a splendid adaption of Mahabharat!
@ Mainak
sir
as long as i am alive, no body on earth can make me see a movie which pretends to give a message to audience .
when i will die, i will make a will just for to make sure that even my ashes don’t enter a cinema hall that is playing a message movie.
a film, first and foremost, should be entertaining.
only after that, if it touches something in me it is good.
‘nourishing cinema’
- a film that unearth something good in the viewer.
if after watching swadesh
one mohan bhargav - and he does not have to be a nasa return, he may be living in india - is reminded of his kaveri amma, swadesh is succesful.
if after watching a rajkumar santoshi flick, some one dares to stand up, in which ever situation, than movie has unearthed courage in that man.
if ’spring summer ….’, let alone to start the search, can even make someone concered about the eternal. it has done unimaginable good.
:x
Vishrant bhai
Just curious. Do you find the films of Anand Patwardhan entertaining ? I would also recommend that you watch a film called “The Bridge”. Would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Vishrant Bhai?
Is that your rule?
That films HAVE to be entertaining? What is entertaintment according to you? ow I want your definition of Entertaintment.
A film can be very depressing & touch your heart & soul.
here is a list of films. Which ones if any would you say is a nourishing cinema with the power of making people think?
1) American History X
2) The people Vs Larry Flynt
3) NETWORK
4) Titicut Follies
5) The Corporation
6) ENRON: Smartest people in the Room
7) In the Name of the Father
8) Mississippi Burning
9) No Man’s Land
10)Blood Diamond
11)Nuit et brouillard (Night and Fog)
12)SYRRIANA
13)PLATOON
14)Brokeback Mountain
This is just a random list of films. Since you claimed that you have never seen a nourishing film from WEST.
Films cannot give a message :- :- ,films are the most powerful medium to send a message and some of the most popular movies are about giving messages ,just that they do it in a subtle way and preaching isn’t the way to do it.
And yea there are only two types of movies ,good and bad ,nothing else .
Mithun
first i search who is ‘anand patwardhan’
- he is a documentry filmaker
-ok
‘the bridge’
is a documentry about a bridge from where people jump. with an interview of a surviver
- ok
albert eistien never entered in a physics lab. to understand the deep mysteries of universe all that he needed is a paper and a pencil.
i am not albert eistien, but i am not that dumb also, that i need to see a one hour long documentary to get the point that there is a bridge from which people jump, and this affects life of peoples related.
documentry is a invention for american couch potato’s who for time to time, like to feel that, in there anatomy there is a part called brain.
people are being murdered in africa. i can feel that just by this one line. my sensibilities are not this much thick that, unless i am shown people being murdered for one hour. i will not get the meaning of first sentance.
now, who makes documentries. third class intellecutal who feel that they are here to change the world. they will show the world what wrong is going on and this way will change it.
those people who care, don’t need a documentary film maker to make a one hour film and show it to them to be aware of the issues. and those who don’t care, who have no concern with the issues will see the movie. and feel great.
documentry
is by third class intellectual
for unconcerned dumbs.
3:-o
this is strictly my opinion
:-b
after criticizing documentary films. what do i do. for the benefit of the world, and humanity.
- nothing , ham sirf gyan dete hain
=))
@vishrant,
maaan, what all pathetic docus have you seen to have this view!!!!!!!! gaaaawd!!!!
“”now, who makes documentries. third class intellecutal who feel that they are here to change the world. they will show the world what wrong is going on and this way will change it.”"
i am not shocked by this. I feel pity for you!
i am sure yoou have more idiotic and illogical views to share…
rant on…
“No, they shouldn
Mainak
sir
it will be difficult for me to explain what is entertaining. but i can tell you what is not entertaining.
main prem ki diwani hoon, is not intertaining.kaun is not entertaining, horror is not entertaining.
sure, a film can be very deprresing and still touch heart.
but why would i be there watching a deprresing film waiting for my heart and soul to be touched.
i don’t claim that west doesn’t produce nourishing cinema. it is that while writing that post i couldn’t remember. by the time i finish that post , i remembered of ‘peaceful warrior’. i mention that.
two more i remember, the last temptaion of chirst and kundun.
the films you have mentioned
i have seen only three
no man’s land, blood diamond and platoon.
first two will pass as nourishing cinema.
border of j p dutta is more broad and better than platoon.
:>
Vishrant Ji
“border of j p dutta is more broad and better than platoon.”
Thanks for saying that. Now I feel I know you million times better.
BTW I reccomend you find the out story of the Erol Morris Documentary THIN BLUE LINE. It saved someones life. Now would you say Errol was a third rate intellectual who was wasting his time? When all he had to do was say “Randall Adamsis innocent”?
Same with INCONVINIENT TRUTH. Do you think all Gore should just wake up one morning & say GLOBAL WARMING will destroy our planet once on TV. Thats it. And we all will get it?
Vishrant getting it is not enough. Documentaries change lives. Everyone knows people are getting killed in Africa right now. What the hell are you doing with that knowledge? Nothing. A documentary about Darfur might jolt someone enough to go there & help those kids out.
vishrant bhai,
so do you also think that schindler’s list was a waste of film reel too??
kj
i don’t even think that race, partner, welcome are waste of reel.
:d
a conversation between platoon admirar and a rookie
pa - you know, war affect peoples psychology
rookie - oh, really
pa - yes there is a sgt, who have gone nuts
rookie - i don’t get it, how nuts
pa plays the first five minutes of platoon.
pa - there is another sgt, who have gone nuts
rok - i dont’ get it, what does he do
pa plays next five minutes of platoon
pa - there is another sgt, who have gone nuts
rok - another one, what does he do
pa plays next five minutes of platoon
pa - there is another sgt, who havve gone nuts
and so on…
rookie has seen the whole platoon.
and got the point that war make people go carzy.
pa - don’t worry if you didn’t get the point, oliver stone is planning platoon 2. some more crazy sgt will be there in the film.
8->
pa and me
pa - you know, war make people crazy
me - yeah i know, but how crazy, what they become like.
pa - let me show you, there is sgt
pa plays the first five minutes of platoon.
pa - there is another sgt, who has gone crazy
me - ok
pa - let me show you
me - no need , i have got the idea
pa - but you have seen just five minutes. whole film is there. and platoon 2 is also on the platform
%-(
Vishrant:
It’s people like you who make message boards come alive. The most charitable view one can take of you is that you are actually speaking tongue in cheek i.e. you write deliberately stupid/provocative stuff to get a rise out of people. In that case we can just dismiss you as a juvenile rabble rouser.
However, in case you are serious, your words: “documentry is by third class intellectual for unconcerned dumbs” actually illustrate two things. One, your exceeding poor grasp of basics of grammar and syntax. (But that’s okay. No one said you have to be good at a language to appreciate films.) Two, your complete ignorance of the form, function and impact of documentaries through out the ages. You have probably, as had many of us, been brought up on the Films Division documentaries in India that used to be shown on DD or before a feature film in theatres. And those must have jaundiced your views forever. Unfortunate, because some documentaries can be life changing, and fabulously entertaining at the same time e.g. Bowling for Columbine, or Fog of War.
Your other provocative comment about Platoon -
Vishrant bhai
U have really disappointed me and at the same time proven my theory without a shadow of a doubt that simply reading books or quoting philosophy doesn’t always lead to erudition.
You keep your Osho while I keep my documentaries and clearly never the twain shall meet.
:d
Mithun, my question was what is global? and who decides it?
Did I say anything about some views being morally correct and others being immoral? No!
It is ridiculous to talk about right to co-existence only in theory.
You create an atmosphere where my views are looked down upon by other people while you keep saying that you respect my views…..what kind of co-existence is that?
It’s like offering aids to nations on one hand and taking away more in the name of debt on the other.
There is a difference between what should be and what is, a difference between theory and practise.
You are right, Indian cinema doesn’t need a protenctionist attitude but as Ratnakar says it deserves due credit when a good movie comes along.
“My allegiance is to content and not origin or past laurels.”
Exactly! Kartik’s rant seems to be against people whose allegiance is to what is considered cool, fashionable or intellectual and not content.
Just in case you guys misinterpret me, I do not discriminate cinema on the basis of language or origin.
All I was saying that I connect to a movie in a different way if I know the language. For example if I know the language I can quote a dialogue :)
@Neeraja
There is a Hare Rama temple two blocks from where I live. 90% of the people who run the temple are Caucasian, another 5% other ethnicities while only 5% are of Indian origin. They have chosen to adopt Hinduism coz they find it more fulfilling than the religion and culture they were born into. Perfectly acceptable and commendable in my opinion.
Now if a white guy living in Los Angeles can be fascinated by Indian cultures and traditions why is it so hard to accept that anybody living in Bombay prefers Hollywood / European films over Bollywood.
I don’t read Premchand or Amrita Pritam but I also don’t read Tolstoy, Chekhov or Norman Mailer. Upmanyu Chatterji and RK Narayan speak to me while Pankaj Mishra and Arundhati Roy don’t. Arundhati and Pankaj have their fans so is it necessary that they have universal acclaim ?
Anything that transcends boundaries and appeals to people irrespective of origin is global. Anime is a global phenomena which outpaces most forms of traditional animation in terms of revenue generated as well as content. Only Pixar is an equal when it comes to comparing the technical and aesthetic skill involved. The fanbase known as “Otakus” is legendary and I fell in love with Anime while watching Robotech in Delhi when it was broadcast on Star TV. It’s as part of my DNA as Sholay is. Ergo I am part of a “global” brotherhood. BTW Rajni has hardcore fans in Japan so he too is global.
Nobody has any right to tell me what constitutes being Indian. Going to a temple doesn’t make anyone virtuous and simply watching Bollywood films doesn’t make one Indian.
As much as I love Parinda and Satya, I think “Heat” is a greater film because its one of the films that inspired me to become a filmmaker. If anybody doesn’t agree and prefers RGV over Mann I say no problem and not label him a vernacular hick. I would appreciate the same courtesy and not be accused of licking the white man’s ass or be labeled an Uncle Tom. But if I am a pseudo so is every kid who wants to play tennis instead of hockey or learn ballet instead of kathak.
Trivia - The two filmmakers Satyajit Ray admired more than anyone else were Jean Renoir and Akira Kurosawa. Renoir inspired Ray to become a filmmaker. Who’s the pseudo now ? :d
neeraja,mithun,mainak guys chilll …..
thand rakho yaar …
mithun - liking heat more than parinda/satya doesnt make a pseudo …
wat truly irritates me is the attitude that i-wont-watch-parinda-saty-but-only-heat or
i-dnt-think-satya-parinda-are good-but-heat-is-brilliant ….
thats what am against .. the senseless “bowing” towards the hollywood and western films without bothering to see our very own filmakers …
u see infernal affairs, departed and drohkaal and THEN tell me infernal affairs is the best for so-and-so reason .. i will always respect u …
but what gets my nerve is that u dont see infernal affairs or drohkaal and then say departed is brilliant because its been made by scorcese…. and then when i ask u to watch drohkaal u make a face as if am asking u to spend a night in the slums of dharavi …
thats what am ranting against. …
Mithun:
I am with you there. Nobody should be telling you what you should like or not. Entertainment and art forms are for pleasure and they should not be bound by any boundaries of language or region.
However, at the same time, they are automatically bound by such cultural devices to a large extent. And that is why most Indians wouldn’t like an opera or why most Americans don’t/can’t appreciate Lata Mangeshkar. One has to make an extra effort in order to reach out and appreciate art forms from cultures other than one’s own.
The use of “pseudo” by Karthik is a generalization and like all generalizations it is gross and unfair. But isn’t there some truth in that? Because at some point of time, you are choosing what to watch or listen or read and what not. And often you are making that initial extra effort to understand or appreciate it. Now is your choice always determined by pleasure? Does the coolness factor of the selected art form not influence your decision? You may say no and I will believe you. But for most people who reach out to difficult-to-access (both physically and culturally) entermainment materials *without* first trying the stuff around them, would the answer be no too?
Mithun and Shaan you guys take a LOT of trouble to sit and explain and argue with someone who is jsut out to troll ?
@Mithun
How does whatever I said in any way imply that since Ray was inspired by Renoir, he was a pseudo?
From what I have heard of Ray, his inspiration must have come from Renoir’s work or anything else but not only from the fact that Renoir was a big name.
If I am correct, ‘pseudo’ means fake or artificial and it is being used precisely in that sense. Pretence is annoying.
Finally, read Kartik’s comment @ 40,51.
“Anything that transcends boundaries and appeals to people irrespective of origin is global.” Fair enough.
My point is manipulation and power to influence also play important roles here.
PS: I didn’t get the purpose of some of the things you said there but never mind for I agree with you on those points :)
arey Kartil(51), tension nako…abhi to we haven’t even started gaalifying, tum to abhi se ghabara gaye! :P
Actually, I am li’l bored of this now.
maaaa ki aankh… baap kiii aankh… bhai kii aankh… behan ki ankh… sab rishtedaron .. or dosto ki aankh…
v all …. u me or hum or tum or ve .. or ye …
r pseudos at sum level….
u me or hum ve our own choices nd outsiders r shallow 4 us…
v all r pseudos at sum level….
raja sen.. khalid mohammadd tell all that shaurya nd krazy 4 r copy but they kept silence over kabhi alvida na kehna…. big banner????
pfc ll tell objection on zinda etc but not on bheja fry nd life in a metro which 2 were copy nd paste films….
who is not pseudo:d:))=))
gud documentaries r also like gud books… informative nd effective… books can b read 2 know … so docu.. also can b seen….
docu.. r moving visual books …
how 1 can deny them..???
Ram ne sita se vivah kiya
Ravan ne sita ka apaharan kiya
Hanuman ne sita ko bachaya
lekin
Vaastav me HERO kon ?
?
?
?
?
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SANJAY DUTT !
a nourishing film of this year
3:10 to yuma
the character of russel crowe is of great density. it is very rare to find such a character in a movie. such characters belong to literature.
more a character is dense and deep. the more will be unpredictability about him.
a side kick in bollywood ganstar movie, is thin, no density. one can easily predict every single move of his. put any imaginable situation, and you can say how that character will react.
the density of a man in life is his unpredictability. more deep and dense a character is more difficult it will be to predict about him.
that’s where literature score over movies. litreture is capable of depicting such characters.
i am not talking about mills & boon.
russel crowe’s character in yuma is almost of the density that belongs to literature.
the climax of the film is my faviourate part, in this otherwise great movie.
one brilliant peace of acting. when his sidekick killed chistian bale. camera focuses on russel crowe. and man, you can feel the fury.
that’s acting !
no other movie character has intrigued me this much, ever before.
———–
rk are you listening
pull out a study of lead character of bollywood from this point of view.
o:-)
charcater wise strong movie to come from bollywood in recent time is, ‘hazaron khwahisein aisee’
a good idea for an article could be the comparison played by one actor
like best character played by big b
best character played by dharmendra
best character played by dev saheb
with hollywood it would be great
best character played by marlon brando
mithun or anyone of the able persons here can
bring out something like, which character of deniel day lewis is more fascinating, gangs of newyork or my left foot.
:-?
Angry young man…. :d/ Arre bhai, yeh to 2 much ho gaya!
@Kartik
Toh phir specify karne ka na. Khaali peeli BP bada diya. :d
@Vinay
Trust me my likes and dislikes have nothing whatsoever with being cool. In fact most of the times they fall in geeky territory. Like right now I’ve been listening to Captain Hollywood Project on my Ipod. In case you don’t know that’s EuroDance music from the 80’s which is as far removed from being hip and cool as it gets.
@Neeraja
My apologies if I’ve offended you. It was never my intention and I hope we can always indulge in healthy debate without resorting to gaalis. :d
My thing is that while I’m neutral towards most issues there are some issues I feel very strongly about. As you might have noticed this was one of them.
@Mithun
Nah you didn’t and I was just kidding about the gaali thing…any kind of healthy discussion is always welcome. Just that this was getting a bit repetitive.
By the way, I watched ‘Gattaca’ today :)
So now you can imagine where I’m coming from. :d
lol
It’s a fine movie, interesting but not as interesting as the fact that it’s your all time favourite!