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Recently I had interviewed Neville Tuli, the founder chairman of the Osian’s Connoisseurs of Art, which organizes the Osian’s Cinefan Festival of Asian (& Arab - from this year) Cinema, in New Delhi. While some parts of the interview have been carried in my paper Deccan Herald, I am reproducing the whole text of the interview for PFC readers, for I am sure Tuli’s comments would provoke interesting responses. For information, Aruna Vasudev, the lady who built the Cinefan festival, has parted ways from it recently. Unconfirmed reports say Mani Kaul, who was the Creative Director of the Film House of Osian’s, has also quit. It remains to be seen how Tuli steers the festival without Vasudev, who built the festival brick by brick using her wide contacts in the film festival circuit and her reputation as a film critic / historian. So here it goes:

Arab Cinema have already been a part of Osian’s Cinefan for the last few years, but this year it has been formally made a part of the festival by incorporating it even in the festival title….

The decision has been coming for a few years now. We actually incorporated that cinema a few years ago. Obviously the themes were bold, there were lots of pain, angst, lot of melodrama, but now there is a kind of technical change also, a new kind of cinematic discipline. So, the mix of having those powerful themes and a new kind of cinematic discipline puts it at par with Asian, Indian cinema in our view. And we don’t want to do anyone favours, they should be getting what they deserve, and I think they can stand on their own totally.

When you say Arab, it extends to Africa, so to say…

Well, it depends on how we define it. Slowly, there are many other regions which we will absorb within Osian’s Cinefan, obviously some of the new states which came out of the Soviet bloc. And already certain parts of Africa are part of it – a different kind of Africa, more of Central and southern parts may be included in the coming years. There are values which we share, there is empathy, emotional linkage, spiritual connection, and I do think India can take a major responsibility for increasing the dialogue and the communication between the Gulf and the Arab countries and the rest of the world, and Asia specially. Given the kind of feelings that we share – Indonesia supposedly has the most Muslims, but India has the most integrated Muslims, so our journey has been very unique which shows that great coexistence, love and trust and oneness – any platform that takes that forward we will welcome.

Is Osian’s ready to handle a bigger and bigger platform for cinema from various parts of the world? How much time you give to incorporate these various regions?

See, intellectually, from the vision point of view, the vision is much larger. I am only taking relatively small steps in my view. To change a country, a value system or builder, infrastructure, it takes time. We are obviously not intimidated by things, otherwise we would not have taken on this journey. so I don’t see anything as too big or too large or beyond us. But yes, the infrastructure internally has to be there. Internally we are doing quite well, the problem is mostly external features. India herself is not ready for certain grand film festival platforms. the public is not ready at many levels, the film fraternity is not ready, the infrastructure does not exist, anyone who knows Siri Fort knows it’s a battle.

Even with all the support system, they don’t know what it takes to be the very best in the world. We try for these ten days to make this into a hub of energy for everyone – Osian’s can bring that unique interaction, you see thousands of children coming in every morning. so, I have that ability to galvanise the interest today. Now, the responsibility grows, the cost is growing, we are bearing that cost without taking any support from anyone because I truly believe that private sector institutions must take on public sector responsibility, which has too many problems on its back, and these are things that they cannot take on that easily – you know the Opposition will take any party to task if you invest thousands of millions of rupees in films when your people are hungry.

It is the private sector which must take on this responsibility, and they must do with not with a sense of gain but as a sense of joyous duty. I think that’s the most important thing about Osian’s – we have that ethos and we firmly believe that that is our responsibility. I think we can grow much faster and I think in another 2-3 years we can be one of the world’s greatest film festivals, with a major global involvement. We had this year at least 350 invited guests, at least another 150 from outside, over 350 members of the Press from all over the world. So, I think that process is gaining, the Indian press is much more involved, the mainstream press also, apart from Arab, Iranian, Variety magazine – I think all the parts are falling into place.

This time you had a preview in Mumbai, and you have said you plan to take this festival to other places.

Well, Mumbai is the first, obviously with the building of Osianama, having a dedicated space for this, it makes our lives much easier to have simultaneous dialogue between Mumbai and Delhi. I think it’s very important because Delhi is emerging as a great independent filmmaking centre and Mumbai is a great mainstream filmmaking centre, and this dialogue can become deeper and more meaningful. The kind of cinema we are producing, the nature of the funding processes, the distribution processes can radically change. I think the manner in which films are budgeted, the component of the filmmaking cost, the manner they are distributed, the whole narrative, the boldness of the themes, the way they reach out to the international community - everything can change.

We are one of the few film festivals in the world that can place a film in any major film festival because of our reputation and knowledge. Now, most films, even from the Yash Raj productions to the small ones, all want to be seen in Cannes, Berlin, etc., and we can immediately play a great role in, but obviously we don’t want to get involved in promoting individual films. Our job first and foremost is to promote the whole film fraternity – Indian cinema, Asian cinema and Arab cinema.

Obviously, our effort towards supporting Indian cinema – we are launching what we call FOOD – The Film Fund – Osian’s Originating Development – that will be a major step forward in giving the first, young filmmakers that first 10-15-20,000 dollars to take the first step forward without any conditions. I think that’s an important step forward.

Will we see a full-fledged festival in Mumbai, followed by other cities?

To start with in Mumbai. Osian’s Cinefan will first and foremost be always Delhi based, but Mumbai will develop its own kind of festival in relationship to Delhi, so that there is a greater kind of complimentary nature. We will try to take to other cities also – it will really depend on how we tie up, ideally I would like to tie up with other film festivals who are doing great work, rather than duplicating their efforts, and supporting them to become stronger. so, obviously Thiruvananthapuram and Kolkata are in mind.

But both are government run…

Well, let’s see. I think the government is changing its mindset, I think the government is recongising that unless you have at the heart of it great lovers of cinema, great knowledge bases, great people who can take it to the people without the marketing hype – you know there is no marketing hype here. People are coming purely based on merit, they are not coming because they want to do some favours to Osian’s, they are coming here because they feel there is something of value here, here’s something that is genuinely trying to make the public more learned, more knowledgeable. That’s why the media support, they are not being paid for it, they are doing it out of merit. Now that is the way thing should go in a country like ours. But at times, you do need to… the marketing component of films is a major problem as I see it, today budgets are nearly 40-50% in some cases. Yes it’s an important part of it, but film festivals can provide especially young, new filmmakers that space that they can save a large amount of that cost.

What are your plans for Osianama?

Osianama hopefully will become one of the greatest cultural centers of the world. It’s planned as seven major integrated features – one will be the film theatres, the archives, the library will be the hub which leads to the whole exhibition space, the post-production facility, the gallery and the art design house. my key feature is a debating chamber, to open one of the first debating chambers in our country, because unless we learn to argue, debate, dialogue with love and respect for each other, our value system cannot go forward. When you integrate all these forces and across art, cinema, architecture, photography, popular culture, you got yourself a major knowledge base. And thousands of people – I have purposefully made it at the heart of working class India, as working class India does not get the opportunity to interact with the arts. so, let’s see…

What time frame you give Osianama to come up fully?

I think another 6-9 months. Everything will start at one go.

Will be giving some kind of incentives to first-time filmmakers who are funded through FOOD?

Always, always. That is always our first – everything we do. it’s different than arts, because in arts we focused at the top end, because that is the way to build the infrastructure. In cinema, I believe it’s at the bottom end when you start out. I think that is why ideas are very weak in India, we are making very mediocre, compromising themes, we are trying to pander to some kind of popular opinion, which we are failing to do, multiplexes are barely having 35-40 per cent occupancy. The Indian public has rejected what we are producing. They want new, though-provoking, bold, fearless ideas.

And somewhere along the line, the political system is also trying to interfere, and create a fear psychosis – if not the political system, at least who are claiming to be part of the political system. so, that intimidation can obviously be fought if public opinion evolves. so that is obviously the main objective.

You have been funding the festival through art auctions. Why cannot you tie up with some corporate house?

It’s easy to do that. It’s principles. People still don’t understand, unless the arts can build their own infrastructure on their own terms they will never get the respect of every individual of this country. A father will not tell a child go become a philosopher, become a writer, become a filmmaker, become an artist, because now you have faith that you will look after your livelihood. Unless, that faith and confidence come into arts, arts cannot become part of every daily activity. My design is not to promote entertainment or to promote one kind of art form, it’s to promote creativity, every individual is creative, that creativity is being suppressed in us. Unless that creativity comes out, we cannot get the respect of the world. It’s impossible, all the economic growth will come to nothing if this creativity is not tapped. So that can be only be if your infrastructure if financially independent, and it comes from within, it does not come from government support, corporate support or donation. That’s an uncompromising principle, you cannot compromise on principles.

Today very easily I can get 20 crores for this festival. The corporates will be happy, all these hundred thousand people walk past from all kinds of background are coming in – imagine the potential to earn wealth. Instead, we are losing money left, right and centre. You have to stick to principles, money is not that important in the long run to change a country like India. You need their love and respect and then their participation follows. If money was anything, we would have got rid of poverty by now for long time.

You have said there is a lot of interest from big filmmakers to get their films showcased at Osian’s. How do you resist those kind of pressures?

It’s not about that. We genuinely think, the producer may be big or small, great cinema can be made by anyone. our maqsad aim has always been how to bring the best of cinematic creativity to the people. Omkara is a great film, it’s also a great box office hit, so we created a new section, same with (Lage Raho) Munnabhai, same with a few other films. We have nothing against great cinema whether it comes from mainstream or arthouse or parallel. Our concern is the focus should not be deviated from cinema as a great creative form.

Glamour is very important, but glamour should be in its place. It is one part of the whole process, (but) it today has dominated the whole mindset, and therefore creativity is suffering. The media are reporting it, and totally distorting the whole thing, and that is not serving cinema, we are nowhere in the world today.

We are given false kind of accolades to ourselves – where are you? You are given a derogatory title (’Bollywood’) and you have accepted it. You have not even one per cent of the world market and you have 40 per cent of the world audience. And you are happy. You are nowhere in the film festivals of the world, you are not changing the values. We have all these years fought Hollywood values, now for the first time you are not able to fight it. What are your values you are trying to get across? Is it just nice little songs about marriages and great emotional melancholy, it’s not. We have great thoughts, great philosophies, literary ideas, poetic ideas, these need to be shared with the world, and for that you need a great respect for the knowledge of cinema.

We don’t have a respect for history, our great stars of the past are dying in ignominy, most of the technical staff are nowhere to be heard, it’s an unjust system, and too many mediocre stars are taking the limelight. That will stop now, we will make it the point now. That’s why we changed the whole art world, same thing will be done with cinema with just pure merit, and nothing can stop it because that’s what public wants.

Do you have plans for the past actors living in ignominy as you say?

We’ve been trying in Mumbai. It’s not charity that they require, they require respect that they have earned. We are not giving them any favours. They have already done a lot of work. In our Mumbai premiere, we got Kamat Photo Flash, Diwakar and Bhonsle. You need to just recognize what they have done, automatically they will start getting respect. Most of them did not do it for money. They did it for the love of cinema, love of art. So, all you have to do is recognizing them, that will be enough to start the ball rolling. After that we will see.

Your film fund – will it be just like giving a helping hand to first-time filmmakers or will you go full-fledged into film production?

We will go full-fledged. This is a step towards that.

And when is the first project rolling out?

We wanted it to be this year, but it is not ready, we still need to put a lot of infrastructure in place. Ideally I will probably start round about 2009 beginning.

Would the first production be (Tagore’s) Kabulliwallah (long back dealt with on celluloid by Tapan Sinha), as we have heard in some quarters, to be directed by Afghan director Atiq Rahimi (of Khakestar-e-Khak - Earth & Ashes, fame)?

One of the first projects will be Kabulliwallah. Atiq (Rahimi) is there. But the key is that it must start as an Indian production, I don’t want a coproduction, Atiq came as a coproduction. Those issues we are sorting out, it will be sorted out.

So, initially you are not very keen on coproductions?

Well, coproductions lead to a lot of complications. Some of them have advantages, but our first focus is give that platform to young film directors and then we will go into production, there are still many tie ups we have to make.

Osianama is based in Mumbai where you have created the platform for debating, but outside the film festival platform, how do you plan to take cinema to common people throughout the year?

Well, our entry into football is one area through which we will take that forward. Today it’s a joke, but trust me, two years for now, when you have 50,000 people in a stadium and suddenly they are seeing art and cinema instead of football, you have hijacked them, no? You will see the practice start maybe this year itself.

What kind of role you see film societies and film appreciation courses playing in all this?

Many members of film societies are here. We have told Sudhir Nandgaonkar, U Radhakrishnan (both of FFSI, and Nandgaonkar also of MAMI and 3rd Eye Asian film fest in Mumbai) to bring in hundreds of (film soceity) members. And that’s definitely increasing, because they are knowledgeable, they love cinema. many people came this time from AP, Karnataka. I definitely feel in the next few years we will have representations from every film society in the country, and their role can be totally galvanized. Today they are left in the margins, they have given so much time of their lives to loving cinema, so if we can reactivate them and make them stronger, nothing like that.

Do you have any plans to institute awards for Indian cinema?

Awards have become like a pimping service at the moment, in my view. They are losing credibility, everyone is doing it for getting stars and getting people, without having the love for it. Awards should be based on merit and love – if those two qualities are not at the heart of it, it does not work. You can use it for TRP ratings and all that nonsense, but in the long run it does not bring any shobha to the industry and its people. I don’t think it is priority for us anyway.

What are plans for your publications division. Is there any plan to make Cinemaya magazine more accessible?

Well not just Cinemaya, we opened India’s first professional literary agency, now we already started bringing many filmmakers – Saeed Mirza’s memoirs on Sufism is being represented by us, and we got in publishers within India and outside India. Many film books are also coming to us. Obviously to change the nature of cinematic publication is a very important focus for our publishing house and we are taking that forward. We have 4-5 major books on international scale coming out on history of cinema, on posters, showcards, on the memorabilia, on different areas which are not being given focus. Cinemaya is now being given a totally new restructured, as we are bringing in other arts related to cinema.

(Well, Tuli does speak much, and since I can take advantage of of the Net’s unlimited space, I have reproduced the whole thing. Yes, Tuli speaks of giving platform to good cinema, but his festival has also screened trash like Oops and some other such films. But largely, Cinefan has become a fantastic platform to watch Asian and Arab cinema.)