Old Hindi Songs. Relishing their magic!
Old Hindi songs are loved by almost everyone. And everyone has his own favorites. There have being lot of times, when sitting with a group of friends, we start remembering the old gems, singing them, discussing our favorite singers. Quite often in discussion we debate, who was the greatest or who was better. No one can conclude anything from these discussions or rather speculations.
The same happened the other day, when few PFCites (Somen, Subrat, Vasan, Kartik Krishnan and yours truly) crashed at Phoenixnu’s place after the meet up at Masala Mantra. Fatema has already covered the meet up.
Subrat has a special collection of Talat Mehmood’s songs, around 800 of them out of the 950 songs. The ones he does not have are mostly non film songs. Talat happens to be my favourite too! But I do not have so many of his songs. To get Subrat’s collection, will have to travel to Banglore.
The discussion varied from trivia’s to favorites to interesting incidents etc.
Subrat had some interesting insights. I have always struggled to understand, why does Kishore Kumar sound so much better in the black n white film, especially in films, where he sung for himself as compared to the ones in color films. On the other hand majority of Rafi’s songs are pleasant to hear. One could argue the type of music that was prevailing at the point of time, when they were at their peaks. But Subrat’s argument was interesting and convincing. He said that Rafi Sahib was born in early 1920s and Kishore was born in late 1920s. Rafi started his career in late 1940s, when he was around 28 years of age. His peak time was from the start of his career to say late sities. That means he peak was during his age span of 28-45 years. On the other hand Kishore Da’s peak was came later, when he was in middle age. The baritone of young Kishore sounds magical, when he was young. For eg ‘Yeh ratein Yeh Mausam nadi ka kinara, Yeh chanchal hava’. Or say the songs of ‘Chalti ka naam gaddi’. When Rafi was at his peak Kishore Kumar got few songs. Rafi even did playback for Kishore Kumar in few of his films, where he acted.
This reminds of Manna Dey’s words, which I heard in HMV’s collection of Rafi Sahib’s songs. According to him Rafi was the greatest ever playback singer. In one of the interviews, he narrated an incident centered around the song in Padosan. The music director had asked Mana Dey to sing a song, which would be a jugalbandi with Kishore Kumar. Mana Dey had one big objection and that was how he could loose to Kishore Kumar? Never the less Mana Dey agreed. As you might be knowing Mana Dey is one of the few singers, who was a trained classical singer and could have very well pursued the other singing options, where he would without doubt would have being equally successful.
As the rumor goes in the industry that Kishore Kumar had difficulty in singing classical songs. If a song came his way and it had classical base, he would say,”yeh gana to Rafi sahib ke liye bana hai”. Similarly Rafi gave Kishore few of his songs.
Even if one tries humming Kishore Kumar’s songs they are easier to sing as compared to those of Rafi’s or Manna Dey’s.
Imagine if all the legends had a jugalbandi, who would win it? I think it would be a tie between Rafi Sahib and Manna Dey. What do you think?
I remember an article in one of the national newspaper that Kishore Kumar was the most versatile singer, largely self taught. It also said Rafi had training in classical music, which is not true. Versatility is often associated with the mood of the songs, which should rather be associated with the type of singing.
Then came the seventies, which marked the golden period for Kishore Kumar. The mid seventies also saw the beginning of the angry young man era of Amitabh Bachan. This era somewhat was a shift from the traditional romantic setup in films. If we look at the golden songs of the previous eras, most of them are romantic. So the music also had to adjust to the changes in the narrative. This could have being one of the reasons, that the magical touch was lost in the songs.
Mukesh Sahib is another legend. Subrat again told an interesting incident. It was film Yahudi. Dilip Sahib was told Mukesh would be singing for him. But Dilip Sahib’s favourite was Talat. Anyways Dilip Sahib gave few hours time to Mukesh to reherse the song. Dilip Kumar would come in the afternoon the same day and listen him. Mukesh reharsed since morning. Finally the time came, he sang ‘ yeh mera diwana pan hai’. Dilip Sahib loved it. The song off course became an all time classic.
Among the other things, we discussed Subrat’s interview questions. We even flunked in questions meant for his chaprasi’s job.
By the way, I want to get the song,” Bigha Bigha Pyaar ka samah bata de tujhe jana hai kahan”, if anyone could help. I lost this song and can not find it. I think Rafi Sahib and Shamshad Begum sang this one.
The ‘mehfil’ continued throughout night before Vasan, Subrat and myself left Somen’s place, while Kartik was snoring on the carpet.
It would be really nice if people can share their favorites; their views about the legends; incidents etc.
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a very refreshing read… manjeet..
Kishor kumar And Rafi Saab are my favourites…
Songs which KK has sung for AB have been registered permanently in my heart….
I once read KK ’s interview by Pritish nandy on PFC…it was fantastic…..
it would be interesting to read interviews of rafi saab and other greats of that time..
my generation i feel has missed out on those….
unfortunately i havent heard much of manna dey and Talat mahmood……or even if i have , blame it on my ignorance i may not identify it as their songs…..
Here is the youtube link to the song from saawan -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgglCKyD5V8
recently discovered the greatness of Manna Dey with songs like -
Jhanak Jhanak Tori Baaje (Mere Huzoor)
Pucho Na Kaise Maine Rain (Meri Surat Teri Aankhen)
Chham Chham Baje re payaliya (Jaane Anjaane)
Lagaa Chunari Mein Daag (Dil Hi Toh Hai)
Lalla Allah Tera (Abdullah)
and more…
Have fallen in love with these…
oh and a nice article, though would have preferred more incidents/song reccomendations
My favorites are the usual suspects Md. Rafi and Kishore Kumar. I’ve been told KK used to make subtle changes to his voice depending on the actor who the song was picturized on. And if you listen to KK songs featuring different actors, you can actually spot that difference.
Another singer I love listening to is Bhupinder Singh. His morose and dead voice has lately been the source of a few gags on these laughter shows. Despite that you can’t deny he had an amazingly versatile voice. I read somewhere that he used to play the guitar for many of Pancham Da’s songs. Bhupinder as singer, RDB as music director and Gulzar as lyricist - bliss of the sonic variety …. He recently sung a song for Traffic Signal. The man’s still got it!
My favourites are Md. Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar. I have close to 3000 Lata Mangeshkar songs and listen to her songs for an hour or so everyday. I had written a series of 7 posts on my blog listing down my favorite Lata songs down the years (1946-2007). Here ae a few links:
http://urgetofly.blogspirit.com/archive/2008/03/23/lata-40s.html
http://urgetofly.blogspirit.com/archive/2008/03/29/lata-50s.html
http://urgetofly.blogspirit.com/archive/2008/04/06/lata-60s.html
Among her countless gems from the 50s, I would like you to listen to this rare gem from Changhez Khan. Divine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpwmlmH7eOE
Ashwin, those are the most popular songs of Kishore Kumar.
I wish one of us could interview Manna Dey!
@rbehemoth: Thankyou so much for the link.. I had only heard the song, this is the first time I came to know, how it looked like. There seems to be a genre of ‘ghoda gaddi’ songs!
OP Nayar is suppose to be a master at it!
we can add on incidents/songs in the comment section.
One funny incident, which I forgot to mention…I started singing,” June ka mausam mast mahina, chand si gori ek hasina, ankhon mein kajal moonh pe pasina”.
Subrat corrected,” june ka mausam nahin jhoomta mausam”:)
Then there was a whole concept of music directors, who came in pairs. Subrat eplained, how Shankar Jaikishan was the only pair, where both the musicians were composers,.i.e. both of them came up with an idea or say the tune. The others were a combination of composer and arranger. I do not want to get into details.
It would be awesome if Subrat can write a post about the same. Its again very insightful discussion!
manjeet: you’re not the only one. As a kid, I also used to sing it as “june ka mausam”
@Aditya, was checking out your blog. Really interesting trivias…Would like to know similar Trivias about other legends…Would be awesome to know how the legends started their career, who taught them, their inspirations etc.
Especially someone could do a post on Rafi Sahib!
Manjeet, me a lover of Old hindi movie songs. I especially love songs by Sahir, Kaifi Azmi and Shailendra.
Regarding singers, Kishore, Asha, Rafi, Lata, Mukesh, Manna are all my favorites. But have a soft corner for Hemant Da, brilliant both as a music composer and a singer.
Among music directors my favorites would be Madan Mohan, Dada Burman, O.P.Nayyar and Salil Choudhury. Some how never liked Naushad much, but love Shankar Jaikishan for the way they integrate the Western tunes into an Indian setting.
Also some blog posts of mine on Sahir and Salil Choudhury.
http://scorpiusmaximusindicus.blogspot.com/search/label/Sahir%20Ludhianvi
http://scorpiusmaximusindicus.blogspot.com/2007/04/salil-choudhury.html.
I have written couple of articles on O.P.Nayyar, Madan Mohan, Gulzar-Pancham, Kalyanji Anandji, Kaifi Azmi too, which i need to upload.
@Ratnakar: Read your blog on Roshan n Sahir…Our taste is so much similar! The other night I was telling the PFC gang that my favourite combination happens to be Roshan, Sahir n Rafi..Whenever they came together, they created magic. My fav being ‘barsaat ki raat’…especially ‘maine shayad tumhe pehle bhi kabhie dekha hai’!
Why don’t you post your blogs through the ‘iview’ section on this site, we would publish them!
khayalon mein kisi ke, is tareh aaya nahin karte. Jo thukraye gaye hain unko thukraya nahin karte-Mukesh
Yeh raat, yeh chandini phir kahan. Sun ja dil ki dastaan-Hemant Kumar
Meri Yaad mein tum na aason bahana, na dil ko jala na, mujhe bhool jana-Talat
Mere Piya gaye Rangoon-shamshad begum
Chalo ek baar phir se aj-nabi ban jayen hum dono-Mahendra Kapoor
some of the songs I am humming right now!
Well some of my all time favorite oldies
1) Ho Ke Majboor Hume Uske Khayaal Aaya- Really moving song from Haqeeqat. Just love the way Talat, Rafi, Manna and Bhupinder render this in perfect synchrnoization.
2) Kar Chale Hum Fida- The Best patriotic song, i have heard. Get a lump whenever i listen to this.
3) Dheere Dheere Machal- One of Lata’s best solos, beautiful piano tune by Hemant.
4) Suhaani Raat Dal Chuki- The laid back tone, the slow music, Rafi’s voice, one of the best songs to listen to on a lazy afternoon, when your are idling.
5) Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare- Masterpiece of a composition, with sublime lyrics by Sahir. One of the most philosophical songs i heard.
6) Jyoti Kalash Chalke- Lata at her best, so wonderfully emphasizing the purity needed for this song.
Would be a very long list for sure.
@ Manjeet
There is also a post on Kaifi Azmi at my blog. But would like to know, how i could publish the blog through I View.
Anyway comming back to Kishore Da. Some of my favorite older numbers of him.
1) Dukhi Man Mere- I think this was Kishore Da’s first attempt at a sad song.
2) Koi Humdum Na Raha- While Jhumroo was more famous for its yoodle yoo title song, my personal favorite from this movie is this. Deeply soulful, it just touches you.
3) Choti Si yeh Duniya- Another beautiful song, i think from movie Rangoli.
4) Aa Chal ke Tujhe- From one of the most underrated classics, Door Gagan Ke Chaon Mein. This movie proved that there is much more to Kishore than just yoodle yoo stuff. Sadly the movie flopped, because it was against Kishore’s usual funster image. The audiences were not prepared to accept him in a totally serious role.
5) Koi Lauta De Mere- From the same movie above, beautifully expresses the yearning for the days passed by.
6) Hum Hain Raahi Pyaar Ke- Beautiful tune by Dada. Perfect melody for an afternoon, or when you are driving. In movie Dil Hai Ki Maanta Nahin, this song was again used in a scene. Incidentally Nau Do Gyarah from which this song is taken, has the same storyline as Dil Hai Ki Maanta Nahin.
7) Maana Janaab Ne Pukara Nahin- Another great song from Dada-Kishore-Dev combo. Totally peppy.
Also Manjeet i felt Kishore’s voice did get better with age. In 80’s, Kishore Da got more associated with the Taka Dina kinda songs, which were more popular. But i feel it was during that decade, he still gave some of his best songs. Sadly most of them were overshadowed by the more popular but crappy songs.
Listen to some of Kishore Da’s really good 80’s numbers like Humein Tumse Pyaar Kitna( Kudrat), Kabhi Kabhi Sapna( Ratnadeep), Bahut Door Hoke, Bahut Paas Hoke( Namumkin), Kuch Log Mohabbat Karke( Lava), Dil Mein Aag Lagaye(Abhi Abhi), Zindagi Pyaar Ka Geet Hai( Souten), Ek Roz Main Tadapkar, Kisi Baat Par Mein( Bemisal, Title song of Agar Tum Na Hote you will find more depth and modulation.
Manjit, Such an interesting topic for me. For me old songs start from the 40’s till 13th October 1987 :-). For current generation, songs of 90’s could be old ! Anyways coming back to your article, wanted to voice some opinions and then lateron add some more discussion/trivias as time permits.
And as you say “No one can conclude anything from these discussions or rather speculations”
Any guy who loves to browse and search and discuss old film songs, was lucky enough to download all the 800 songs of Talat Mehmood, which were uploaded by his son, Khalid Mehmood, a few months back.
Age difference between Rafi and Kishore was 4 years 7 months.
It is not true that when Rafi was at the peak Kishore got few songs. It was opposite - that Kishore did not go after songs or music directors or movie producers from 1952 onwards till 1965. He concentrated more on his non-singing matters that he is famous for, in the industry. And I thank god for that too !!
Hahaha…I have yet to come across one singer in the world of clones who come even an iota close to Kishore’s style, way and depth of singing. Also his comedy songs are simple ? In terms of number of difficult songs of Kishore and Rafi would be the same for me, even in the non-peak period of Kishore.
If I were to “imagine”, it would always be Kishore, who won the jugalbandi
There are a huge number of Manna Dey interviews available on the internet. Just type “Manna Dey” interview, in google and you would get lots of them. I have yet to post about the many days spent with the legend, in his many visits to Dubai. Was privileged to spend a few days with him all alone, shopping, eating etc. What a man !! a total non-filmy person.
Ashwin, PFC’s interview copy/pasted by SV, has the Amitabh Bachchan part edited. The edited part is in inverted commas :
settle this entire business once and for all. “I dont want to make them (IncomeTax) travel all the way to Khandwa to collect my dues.”
“PN: I believe you recently refused to sing for Amitabh Bachchan..
KK : Well he made my son hang around for so many days. I had asked him to act for my new film. He was very polite but refused to say yes or no, and kept us hanging. We lost so many days. And why should my son hang around outside his house, his sets - just to find out if he would act or no ? So I signed on Rajesh Khanna.
PN: And refused to sing for Bachchan ?
KK : Only for a while. I later relented. Why fight such childish wars? Its not him. He is not a bad sort. Its that fellow, Manmohan Desai. He’s behind it all. I know that. He hates me.
It is that fellow who has poisoned Amitabh against me. I know everything.
PN: What has Manmohan Desai against you ?
KK : Where are the friends in this industry ? Everyone has a motive when he tries to get close to you
PN: Is that your experience all throughout your career ? Or is the new breed of industry people like this ?
KK : The earlier lot was better. They were more human. ”
“(because it is rumored)” you would stay up all night and
count money..
Ratnakar, Kishore’s first attempt to sing sad songs was singing his 2 non-filmy “gems” in 1947. Then the next month he got to record his first sad song for Dev Anand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iad_vJCxE0o
You call 32 weeks of running of Door Gagan Ki Chhaon Mein as flop ? It was the Bheja Fry of that year. Word of mouth made it an astounding success. Much needed for the financially broken Kishore. He immediately planned Hum Do Daaku & Door Ka Raahi, the next year
I agree with you on the voice of Kishore in the 80’s. The last song he recorded, Guru Guru, one day before he died, was total ENERGY. http://www.musicplug.in/songs.php?movieid=14689 . A teenage singer would have been ashamed with this kind of pep. Even in the late 80’s, Kishore was very good in a peaceful studio environment, early morning recordings, fully paid by the producers, and a good tune/lyrics. He is incomparable man.
@ KCp
Thanks for the correction given.
Door Gagan Ki Chaon mein ran for 32 weeks!! Because i did hear that the movie was not a success. It was a fabulous movie for sure.
@ KCP
Regarding Manmohan Desai, part, i feel that he was totally for Rafi. And it was not just with Manna, Man never got along with Kishore Da either, calling him a terrible singer. This when Kishore Da gave some of his best songs for Manmohan Desai movies like Aa Gale Lag Jaa, Rampur Ka Laxman, Roti, Sacha Jhoota.
Also the decline in quality of movie songs in late 80’s, could also be attributed to the fact that with passing away of Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh much earlier, it created a major impact.
Most of the songs were sung by the Rafi clones, Shabbir Kumar and Mohd Aziz, who were terrible. I am sure Rafi saab’s soul would have been tormented by this singers. Nitin Mukesh and Amit Kumar, were good, but somehow never really got as many chances. The thing i hate about Shabbir or Aziz, is whatever be the mood of the song, they sing it in same tone. You have no clue whether its happy or sad or romantic.
@kcp…
hmm thats never before heard trivia …
is he talking abt Amit Kumar….?
and what film did Rajesh khanna do for him…?
Yes Ashwin, it was Amit Kumar. The film was Mamta Ki Chhao Mein http://passionforcinema.com/mamta-ki-chhaon-mein-1989-kishore-kumars-swan-song/
Wow..interesting discussion here!
who would be the top 5 music directors of all time(lets exclude the current crop…they r still building their body of work!)….any ideas?
my quick top 5 would be:
1) Madam Mohan
2) SD
3) Salil C
4) RD
5) Confused between Shankar Jaikishen & Roshan
Tht was tough!
Is it worth it??…or the idea of a top 5 itself is crap???
kcp: you must do that post on Manna Dey for all us. So many days with him. It must have been very interesting.
Pradeep (25): Every person would have his own top 5. Mine include:
- Madan Mohan
- Anil Biswas
- Salil Chowdhury
- C. Ramchandra
- RDB
Ratnakar,if you like KK’s voice of the 80s better than the 50s or 60s, can’t argue…its a personal preference.
I can listen to most of the songs in you comment#15 again n again, but similar is not the case with the songs listed in comment#16…again its a personal choice, don’t know why thts the case..Subrat’s reasoining made lot of sense…Lot of my friends like KK’s songs of 70s n 80s n they r right too!
@KCP, As Subrat said, share some insights of Manna Dey’s experiences! please its a request!
@ kcp
thanx for the info and link……will try watching the movie…
Great post Manjeet, must’ve been a good discussion. I have nothing to add to this discussion here, but am languishing in the lovely songs, anecdotes and general remembering of the best era of Hindi music that was. Even if I can’t share anything, I am reading avidly guys!
@Manjeet
you guys discussed old hindi music without me
how unfair!
par theek hai, me and Fatema also had a great time discussing old films, Gurudutt and humming chandni raatein that night
I agree with ratnakar that kishore’s voice was better in 80s. his 2 best singing attempts “kab tak andhere manko chalenge”with rajesh roshan in batobatome in 1980 and “hume tumse pyar kitana” in 1981 (kudrat) justify this.
hiAE YARA s solo ” kabhi hoti nahi hai haar wo hai pyar” in 1987 and “AE YARA TU YARO SE HAI PYARA”IN 1987 ARE WONDERFUL. ALSO IN EIGHTIES HE CAME OUT OF BURMAN STAMP. HE WAS USED BY RAJESH ROSHAN, BAPPI LAHIRIUSHA KHANNA AS WELL. OF COURSE HE RENDERED MANY SOLOS LIKE “MERE HASIN KATIL” IN BEMISSAL AND “RAH PE RAHTE HAI” NAMKEEN, AND “JAB BHI KOI Kngna bole” in shaukin with rdb as well