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Oldies, hold your undies!
Our very own Hoonhar Goonda, in a fit to take on the stalwarts of PFC’s Retro Hindi Cinema had a thought yesterday morning. Why don’t I take a very classy DK aka YK aka “Hold your pants till I finish my monologue and then my facial expressions” film, take a few lines of the ultra-meaningful lyrics and ask people, How the hell did I miss it for all my life’s worth in UK?
Allrite, this is what he said:
“…Jalaa do ise fooq dalo yeh duniya
Jalaa do, jalaa do, jalaa do
Fooq dalo yeh duniya
Mere samne se hata lo yeh duniya
Tumhari hai tum hi sambhalo yeh duniya
Yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaaye, to kya hai? ”I heard the song for first time when I saw the movie Pyasaa for the first time over the weekend. And the ghazal is amazing - so is the film. How come I had not heard the song before?!!
Or at-least that’s whose film I thought when I read “Pyaasa” cos for me, all the films that had such sad names meant only one guy: Dilip Kumar.
And then all hell broke loose. Dpac choose this moment to gwaad at HG and PNU was taking nothing more of it. Now it had actually come to HG’s life as he had to make amends before our resident PFC bad boy KK wakes up from his bad dream and if he were to find out this grave sacrilege that HG had committed by declaring his ignorance of Hindi gems, we would have had the whole MI5/Scotland Yard looking for a topless killer on the prowl.
There was a kind warning from Mr. Subratji:
HG We will have a lot to talk if we meet
The offer made by the Lord of Black & White’s cannot be refused, even by the smartest thug around.
And before the Undertaker had his say, HG made a silent, nimble plea:
look, I might have seen a few films or heard a few songs, which you guys would not have seen or not heard, so we will always have something to talk about, lol.
And I cannot be the only author who has seen less BW movies.. can I be..?!
Poor guy had no clue that he had stirred the eagle’s nest already and before he finished, the Urn maker thundered:
Dear H.G,
Congrats on this new experience which is not less than an achievement.
Orchestra is properly used so one can listen words to understand and he does not have to go to google to get lyrics of the song.:)
How nice it will be if you make a post on Pyasa , the film. How a new person, who sees it after 50 years of release, finds it? A true impact.
You will be one in your age group who has seen most unusual (for them) films (oldies).
Great going.
I for one knew it would have been lot better had RK sir thundered, but the smiley remark had all the overtures of the rhapsodical decimation that would cometh in the very near future.
The usual suspects had their say too… well, no one wanted to rub the wrong side of the likes of Pavan, Subrat and Rk.
DPac:
forget the film HG .. even if u r 10 yrs old and lived in timbuktoo for most of ur life…
the chances of NOT hearing THIS song is immensely minute
Striker:
i had to read what HG wrote 3 times to fully soak in what he just revealed.. and i’m still in shock. HG.. you’ve made me curious.. where did you grow up? do the words “vivid bharati” ring a bell to you?
Well, “Vivid Bharati” never rang a bell to me either and you can’t certainly expect it to ring for HG as his initiation into Goondagiri in the land of the lords began after his 6th class. Quite inexperienced Goonda you must add, chedofying such a sensitive topic among cine-fanatics.
Well, as the pleas to save the bacha’s life grew louder, your’s truly had to jump in. I had to get back at all those nights, posts and discussions which I was not a part of for just having no knowledge about a cinema that is long past me. I had been humiliated in those hallow portals of Hyderabad Film Club, when beard sporting khadi-jhol dangling dood’s kept rambling about the artistic geniuses that Guru Dutt, Raj Kapoor, Ashok Kumar and Dileep kumar were when for all the times I slept through Kaghaz Ke Phool, Mera Naam Joker(ya ya, I was awake for that one shot), Chori Mera Kaam and Karma, I just felt I had to find a drop of water, somewhere! When all the times I read Rk’s posts and I went - Gosh, am I blind and that one particular Subrat post where I did get the ITalkies subscription when I had no cash to splurge. I had to jump in to keep up the banner of all those blind souls like me, and mind you there are dozens out there, who just are as keen as anyone for initiation into the mind-boggling mire that old-cinema was but never-ever could.
Ravptor: Kya??? I so came close to doing a post on the hype of Dileep Kumar being so over-rated and all that for a guy born in eighties and grew up on the late 90’s movie diet. Seriously guys, mujhe toh koi mazaa nahi aata.
Yes the dialogue’s are great and the poetry is meaningful. I did make an effort to watch Dev Anand films after Rk’s post and I did enjoy a few - Guide especially but for some reason, Dileep Kumar made me throw things at the screen. Just checked myself to complete the post as there are stalwarts like Rk and Subrat who will go on a rampage. But I will after I watch a few more BW movies and get suffcient material to backup my case.
Also, why is it “in” to call BW’s as yaadgar if not for the emotional value??? Not to piss people here but how would someone who does not relate to it can accept those facts. Also, movies keep evolving, so has acting. And there is the process of the old getting its due after they pass into oblivion.
HG, rest assured. half of the discussion here go on top of my head wrt to black and whites. So does the whole Gulzar thing. But nevertheless, I saw Pyaasa dude!!!
A point in case here. When your’s truly grew up, there was no cable and there was trash on television. The mythology part of Hindi- Cinema was lacking too which was unlike Telugu/Tamil cinema where greats like NTR and MGR/Shivaji Ganeshan captured the minds of kids by their uber-exotic mythological characters and for someone who’s diet was DC comics, seeing gods fly around was equally captivating. So, did Hindi Cinema loose out because of the non-portrayal of such classic characters by top actors which could have been a serious point of initiation into cinema???
Subrat had my back…
Ravptor: Please post. Why be stymied (if at all) by a few of us who you (wrongly) believe will go on rampage. I am all for differences of opinions though I am interested in knowing which Dilip Kumar movies did you watch. I find him and a lot of Indian acting stalwarts (Kamal Hassan, Raj Kapoor, Guru Dutt) over-rated beyond a certain point in their careers. So I might just support you on that.
Films are made within a social context so I agree with you that as society evolves we might find some of them irrelevant. But good cinema, like good literature, can continue to remain relevant if we approach it with some understanding of the context. Shakespeare, Dickens, Conrad et al are still ripe material for adapatations but if you read the original versions you might find the language antiquated, a lot of politically incorrect statements and long-winding plots.
and so did OM…
Not all B&W are classics….what makes them classics are the time they were made, with as little resources…and as high imaginative power…plus..imagine this…many of us even today are cribbing about non-sufficient help to make movies…take for example wen anurag said about india having just a few under-water cameras…and we are talking about 21st century…woh time pei..they didnt have anything..just imaginative power…and those movies which hold relevance even today…and those shots which wen seen even today, you wont be able to understand ” how on earth did he shoot this” are classics for me….
So the question is: For all those across the spectrum, ages, genders and geographies, how much do Old-Hindi classics like Pyaasa still hold relevance. More importantly, how can we come up with a serious initiation path to all those who do want to know more about the era-gone by without having them doze off…
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32 Responses to “Oldies, hold your undies!”
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i don’t have the answer to it all, but sometimes you have to have the ability to transport yourself back to the times when the movie was made.. some movies are able to achieve this, and yes, pyaasa is one of them. those that don’t achieve the aforementioned… well, they bear the wrath of us calling them insipid and tormentuous (yes, i just made up that word).. i’m another poor soul that thinks DK was better in his earlier films, but as the films evolved, his acting didn’t.. you can ham it up in the 50s and get away with it, bc the audience back then didn’t care for who an “actor” was.. they just wanted their DK fix. you can even get away with it in the 70s or 80s or even 90s to some extent, but if you revisit these “classics” now, you find them… yes, you guessed it, tormentuous.
My .02$
It is not about how to make old movies relevant now. It is more the viewer’s understanding of the culture and the dynamics of the time and place when the movies were made. It is very similar to watching movies from other countries. Not all movies get one going or not all movies are of one’s liking. What is considered hamming now might have been necessary at a certian point of time. As actors moved from theatre or street natak performances to movies, they carried their techniques and for people who were used to such techniques it did look good and appropriate in the screen. Sivaji Ganesan is a prime example.
The old movies will always be relevant. One way or the other. To find an initiation path one needs to leave their judgement/attitude and be ready to take in melodrama and dialogues which have now become tacky. I for one am having difficulties watching the old movies all over again as I believe my sensibilities have changed. But, all it takes for me to love those movies is to let go of these sensibilities and enjoy them for what they are. Criticise them for their faults later, but enjoy them first…..
About the initiation part all i can say from my behalf is, i would like films like Pyasa, kagaz ke Phool, Tere Ghar Ke Saamne, Teen Deviyan, Boot Polish to be ( i dont know the right word, to be made what they did with Naya daur and Mughal-e-Azam) re-worked on…and then see the magic….i have dvd’s of almost all Guru Dutt’s classics…and the audio and video quality is pathetic..to say the least…now when i saw those movies on DD as a Teenager or younger, i felt the quality was good..but i dont see that now..why? i have no clue…so, if a person does want to see those oldies, not because of his love to watch them, but just out of curiosity of ” what the hell is so spl. about them”…the only way he might enjoy is by re-working on the prints…and no..noo…dont give them color..as Kaghaz ke Phool and Pyaasa will totally loose their characteristic for sure…how will the dust particles look in color..out of place right…
“Criticise them for their faults later, but enjoy them first…” hmm, well put sarang. I think it has to do more with the relevance than anything. I once sat through Devdas(ANR/Telugu) version just because I was so determined to sit through a classic and after it, when I had a chance to see how well the story was told, I just held my horses.
True, they were actors then and now we have stars but I have always looked for a way to see them from how they came to be rather than being a film of a past.
I once saw a documentary in BBC about the artistic genius of Raj Kapoor where in one shot where he needed focus light, he had a huge tent erected and puntured a hole on the top, times the sunlight to perfection and shot the whole sequence. I was freakkin stunned. So, that’s my point… show us more of these, tell us this. People who have knowledge about all this, write, shout or make your point. PFC does have some authors who do it… we need MORE!
Sarang: “Criticise them for their faults later, but enjoy them first”=d>=d>=d>=d>
quote of the month…waaah mazaa aagaya sun ke..
You got to stop concentrating on the damaged images.
If you ask me, the path I followed was: First I fell in love with the songs, then dialogues, then stories, then acting and then camerawork and direction.
Eventually you fall in love with these two non-colours: Black and White :)
neeraja… u pretty much defined the process flow man. Are you in IT? Now I am gonna crack them.. LOL!
lol ravptor, you know some mathematicians consider that as an insult?
@ravptor
just to get this off my mind and no offense intended, it is not “Fook daalo yeh duniya”, it is “Phoonk daalo yeh duniya”. Phew! feels a lot better now!! Sorry! But it’s just me! :D
Sarang: the poetry in block quotes is the transcript by HG. I had no part in that, I just CC’d and CV’d it. Now you know who to take it off on… :d
Dude, no issues man, Totally!:)
Sarang, pronounce “fook” as ???? (have i spelt that correctly) and not as “fuck”! ;-)
Also am I the only one who cannot tell a difference between the BW actresses? I cannot tell a difference between Nutan and Waheeda Rehman or Mala Sinha or whoever..
ravptor: thanks! it’s just my inability to see words trans-literated in various ways as just another form aof expression. I am too obessed by words and how wonderful they sound etc… one of my quirks…. :D
Anyway, coming back to our topic, let’s take movie Pyaasa which is being discussed here (and in the other post about Guru Dutt by OM) and take one song sequence. The one I am talking about the “Jinhein naaz hai hind par woh”. Look at the way the song is picturized. In a red-light district. One of the ‘Andheri’ galis. There are dark corners and a few spots of bright areas as he walk along the street. Our protagonist is drunk but not intoxicated. A wonderful example to show us the difference. He falls down as people laugh at him or is he laughing at everyone else/us? and feeling incapable to do anything about the situation? Who are the people Jinhein naaz hai hind par? Where are they? Are they the audience? Is it a message from the director to us to take a look into ourselves? What a wonderful piece of work without being preachy! Again, simply Amazing!!!!
More of these as I get ideas to write. Thanks for making my grey cells (whatever is left) work! :)
Not seen pyaasa or kaaghaz. Only DK movies i sawn are m
@HG
I shall make sure I do not pronounce it incorrectly :)
i have tried watching pyaasa and kagaz ke phool..but it takes patience ..i guess i should determine someday to watch it through…..but the songs are simply awesome…….the latest b/w movie i watched was madhumati
Ah! HG I have been wondering about that problem for a long time. I have met so many dudes who say that but not a single girl. Is it one of those guys’ problems? :P
Any counter-examples (women who can not differentiate between actors) here????
PS: It is ????.
@Anand
Did you watch Madhumati before OSO or after? :)
No post on Pyasa and Kagaz ke phul on PFC?
AarPaar, Mr and Mrs 55? CID? Sahib Biwi aur Ghulam? Bazi? Chohadvi ka chand?
please do.they are special films of Guru Dutt.
Neeraja before oso………i also remeber a movie with a very young Tanuja and David…i don’t remeber the name of the movie though…
Neeraja: Aah, my bad! You are the purists ;)
Anyways, guys, bringing in the other point. For people from regional cinema. Did mythological films make them better for Telugu/Tamil’s than for old-Hindi because of the lack of them.
For me, NTR as Lord Krishna/Arjuna/Bheema/and almost everyone still facinates me and I make it a point to watch them. So does SV Ranga Rao.
Vitthalacharya is still considered as the most creative director for his introduction of flying chariots. So, how much role did they play?
@Krishn: Plea will be forwarded to able authors. Please join in appealing to Rk, Subrat and Pavan. Really guys, you painted so many films for me so beautifully using your words, I think you should keep em coming :)
sorry , had not checked before.
google brought back me to PFC link of pyasa
http://passionforcinema.com/pyassa-1957-remembering-the-classic-in-its-golden-jubilee-year/
I think, like cinema itself, its a subjective thing. I’m a child (or product as some would say) of the 1980’s. I grew up watching more “classic” hindi cinema than the crap that was coming out (with of course the odd exception of a Masoom or what not).
Though I do appreciate the subtility of one Dilip Kumar, and I’ve watched many of his best films, I could never claim to be a fan. I’ve always been a big fan of Naya Daur, Mughal-E-Azam and Ram Aur Shyam.
Likewise I could never sit through a Guru Dutt film. I’ve seen both Pyaasa and Kagaz Ke Phool more than once. I found them to be, dare I say, depressingly boring.
Kishore Kumar I loved though. Whether it was the all-time clasic “Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi” or “Mr. X In Bombay” or “Jhumroo” or “Half-Ticket”, Kishoreda was the epitome of entertainment.
Before you jump on me for being a lover of comedy over tragedy or drama, I must say I’m also a big big fan of Raj Kapoor saheb. Shree 420, Awaara, Barsaat, Andaz, Anari, Teesri Kasam, etc. we’re absolutely brilliant films. I believe these were all from the 1950’s. Though his later work, particularly Sangam, was good as well, I think his best years were definately the 50’s.
I loved Dev Anand as well… My favorites (aside from Guide as I’m trying more to recollect the B&W films) were Taxi Driver (very underrated film), CID, Paying Guest, Pocketmaar, Munimji (great music)…
In fact, if you want to talk “relevance”, watch C.I.D. and tell me if this is not a textbook, brilliant noir thriller. Many of todays filmmakers can still learn from these classic…
Neeraja, I have not met any such women yet… are you one of them? and thanks for the correction.. there is not much to differentiate with them..
on B&W oldies..
Ek booDha aadmi hai mulk meiN ya yoN kaheN
is aNdheri koThari meiN ek roshandaan hai
?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????
?? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ??
havent seen pyasaa
*grins sheepishly*
*runs away from thread*
@another GAAAAAAAAAWD moment!!!
“I the only one who cannot tell a difference between the BW actresses? I cannot tell a difference between Nutan and Waheeda Rehman or Mala Sinha or whoever..”
on second thoughts is it because u havent seen any of their films or because to u they all look alike in BnW
if its the latter .. mate u just about escaped!!!
:-)
@HG
Nope I am not.
Here’s a suggestion: Next time try to look at their faces :P:P:P
Dpac, it could be that I have seen only BW movies, but even in the BW songs, which I have seen a lot.. cannot tell a difference.. they all look same! no difference..
lol, Neeraja, I do look at their faces….
@H.G and Ravoptor,
because its always a pleasure to interact with you and you guys are open so for that sake we will interact on the points you guys have raised.
From different directions we will try to catch the hen (if you are nonveg) / ball (if you are pure veg.)
—–
First a quote, (which I dont like to do but its a nice quote) please read it independently without any connection or with little connection with the situation here)
“Everyone wants to understand art. Why not try to understand the song of a bird? In the case of painting people have to understand … why?”
[Pablo Picasso]
Guys, not liking the B&W age not a crime, my mother born in 49 also does not like it..and neither does my saas..she likes Akki baba..so?!!
I watch Do bigha, Jalsaghar, Solva Saawan, Sujata and the likes alone!!!
Indraneel, like your ma, my ma is also a big fan of Akshay Kumar. She proudly says that Akshay Kumar was the best actor of Year 2007 - all of his films were major hit - and complains about why does not he get any awards.
But unlike your ma… my ma appreciate classic stuffs - she loves movies of Gurut Dutt, hrishikesh mukherji, rajesh khanna, hema malni, dharmendra, etc, etc. She hates Amitab Bachchan, though. And she always goes about.. can today’s actor act like the yesteryear actors? can today’s singers sing like like Mohd. Rafi, Manna Dey & KishoreDa?