Problems of “English” Slumdogs
Slumdog Millionaire Review
Everyone seems to be going crazy on Slumdog. People are watching Free Screenings everywhere. Dany Boyle is all over NPR. Even KCRW is talking about it. NPR even had a segment on “HINGLISH” as a related Looks like FOX is backing it in a big way.
In next few days you’ll read a lot of great things about the film. And thats why I feel I must write this post & express the things that didn’t work for me. This is not a review of Slumdogs. Its mostly the issues I had with the film. And it mostly stems from a common problem of all such films.
I went into the film with a lot of anxiety. I have a major pet peeve when it comes to American/British directors come to India & make films. With the exception of of Gandhi, nothing has worked for me. Lets say its the WHITE MEN’s ACHILLES HEEL, when it comes to making films in India. I watched 2 of the most celebrated films about India – A Passage to India & The River. I found both the movies unbearable. And THE RIVER changed Martin Scorcesse’s life. Its very hard for me to watch rural or poor Indians speaking English on screen. Have you seen a South American or European film where the characters talk in accented English because the film needs an wider audience? The only example I can recall right now is my fav director Julian Schnabel’s beautiful mistake Before Night Falls. And Julian learnt from his mistake. In his next masterpiece The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. The french are speaking french. No Kidding!
When I heard Danny talk about how Loveleen Tandon asked him to make the film in Hindi, I was quite relieved. But I was also surprised that someone had to say that to a genius like Boyle. But the film is mostly English. A Inspector talks to his constable in English. No Kidding. Two uneducated, brothers from the slums talk to each other in English. I didn’t buy the logic given in the film. They made the kids speak in hindi. And thank god for that. The kids were the best part of the film.
And then there is the case of casting a British actor Dev Patel in the lead role. I saw the Q&A @ Toronto Festival on Youtube last month & that’s when i found out the actors are not Indians. I was quite shocked. And my fears did come true. You can hear a slight British accent in his English. And it becomes progressively stronger as the film reaches its climax. His brother was probably the strongest character in the film, but when the grown up version starts talking in English it just took the fizz out of the film.
And that language problem also leads to problems with acting. For Danny Boyle to get the nuances of that is unfair. It usually only works the other way when Non English Speaking Geniuses go to Hollywood & make films there (Cuaron). Sometimes the acting just seemed like the actors are just following instructions. And the scene where the Brother says”GOD is GREAT”. Come the fuck ON Danny. For a second I thought I was watching a Subhash Ghai film.
Now I also feel the film must get nominated for two things – Cinematography & Adapted Screenplay (maybe Editing too). The movie starts with such a fucking bang. The first 30 minutes will blow anyone’s mind. It has such a kinetic energy about it(City OF God like). Its also when they are kids & speaking in Hindi.
If you see or hear Danny Boyle promoting the film you can tell what happened. He got so blown by the visual possibilities of the film, it just overtook him. He literally showed the whole country in the film. In 2 minutes. Watch a part of it here –
It is also the most kinetic film Danny has made since Trainspotting. And it will go down as his best since Trainspotting. I think it will take the Best Cinematography award.
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
also i think the movie is way too different than the book, the book solely featured on the main character and his journey from childhood to the present via the show’s questions….everything else revolves around him in parts like his love interest, his friends, the actress who employs him, the hitman come bookie who employs him, the autralian, the lady in agra etc etc but here it seems hurried, it seems fragmented, many loopholes in the plot and many subplots left under developed…somehow after reading the book the movie is a tad disappointing…well rest as mainak has mentioned above i totally agree with him…
What?
There were so many subplots?
I thought all the subplots were half-baked. I don’t think the film captured the mafia at all. It was all fantasy. Things happening without any logic. I thought the book didn’t have much & they made a better film than the book.
But Mitch who also watched the same show last night said to him it was
“A Dickensian tale mixed with magic realism and plain old Bollywood masala”.
Wait for his post of the film to counter mine. Its on its way.
I agree.
I don’t find it a block. Though I haven’t seen the film, but I didn’t have a problem with language as that’s how most of the scripts are being written right now. Last film I can think of is Darjeeling Ltd. Or even Hazaaron. We have had like ample discussions on it for the last 3 years. But again, mine is a distant observation and will not make any sense to counter your point unless I see the film, cus it all depends on how a scene plays out- an Irfan can make it all worthwhile(a mighty heart) at the same time a Rahul Bose can screw it all up with his Shakespearean twang, a Boman Irani can make you forget what language he is using, ditto for a Naseer or an Om. In fact all those masters use it to their advantage. Watch Merchant Ivory films and you will know it. You said correctly about language affecting expression and eventually, the performance. One should stick to the natural tongue for the most genuine expression. I need to refresh my memory of Salaam Bombay but I guess it was done mostly in natural language. You are also correct about the Subhash Ghai thing. But all of them elements have me cracking up thinking about the gora characters in his films.
read the book..was pathetic..hope the movie is better..otherwise Shantaram andozz..
the clip reminded me of Million..another gem f a movie.
Wow.
Is this the first/only review online which is not raving about this film?
Interesting observations.
Mainak..from the clip I see here..I find no reason to “dislike” the movie as yet..OK..those cringing moments shall be there…but..
absolutely perfect observations. clint eastwood and even a moron like mel gibson sticks to the local language while making an exotic location film. why we cant expect the same from a director like danny boyle?
@Mainak
Totally Agree !!!
GK
@Mainak
Also lot of people are upset with DEV.D,I dont know why ??? Was with Sudhir Mishra last night, he came to celebrate the FASHION box-office success with me and Madhur at Vie Lounge Pub,Juhu, we are going to discuss Fellini’s 8 1/2 in the coming week, starting JAIL from next month with Neil Mukesh !!!
GK
Interesting insight Mainak, true about how contextual references are thrown heavily askew when characters (especially as you mention, slum kids) start conversing in English. Suspension of disbelief ends at that moment and the film looses impact. I guess not many directors are courageous enough to shoot in native languages (Kama Sutra was another bad example) for the ever celebrated book-of-love from India and its story manifested through the life of a King and the journey of a woman, it was a immense disappointment. Le Scaphandre et le papillon was amazing beyond doubt. That film should have won for cinematography, I think it did too. Surprisingly, just last night I was having a conversation with some of my colleagues at work about how books like: Salman Rushdie’s “Midnight’s Children” or Arundhati Roy’s “The God of Small Things” are judged by English people and are given Bookers when most of the story is heavily contextualized to an Indian setting, the humour, references, setting and atmosphere. How can some English bloke understand its real essence and shower it with accolades? Beyond my understanding. Art I think will be the most original in its original context and setting. Adaptations always seems to rob it of its glow.
@ GK Desai
Good Luck With JAIL. I hope Madhur gets his CHANDNI touch again. Have you seen Slumdog Millionaire?
I have no idea about DEV D.
@ Roodrow
Can’t agree with you more. Like you said a “Moron” like Mel Gibson( Though I disagree about him being a moron even if I am not his biggest fan) sticks to the local language. He infacts makes films in lost language. His CHRIST movie was in a ancient language that no one speaks anymore.
Maybe Gibson is the right guy to make Shantaram afterall. Atleast he is a Aussie. Its a interesting thought…
@GK..all the best to you and Madhur..make it gritty like Chandni Bar..pls!
interesting post Mainak. It reminds me of Kundun , scorcese’s work. It felt totally fake for the same reasons u mention here. I was thinking about the same when i saw the slumdog trailor. But in anycase, u call it his best thing after trainspotting , so that should make it worthwhile enough
Without digressing into backseat critiquing here, I did not have the language problems that Mainak had with the film. I recently viewed Shyam Benegal’s film about Bose, and all through the first quarter of the film, the Bengali hero talks to his family in Hindi… It begins to “make sense” when the rest of the film plays out, as the English part made sense for me in Slumdog. Agreed that the film is made from a non-Indian sensibility, but is that bad? I mean, Indian cinema has produced amazing films about Dharavi – as namesake Mishra’s “Dharavi” to name one! – why not accept to view this story from another POV?!
Mainak: Haven’t seen the film yet. But why let such trivial details come in the way of commenting.
Why is the language such an issue? I could understand that you didn’t like the “unbelievability” of the characters speaking in English but what did it rob the film of? In any case, a director making a film out of material that is foreign to him starts with limits on his/her freedom and appreciating the idiom. Then you want him to make the film in a language which he doesn’t understand and stretching this argument further, you’d conclude that such a movie should have been made only by an Indian. Is that what you’re leading to?
@Mainak
I dont see what the problems is if poor or rural indians are shown speaking in English so as to reach a wider audience.I mean for me its the performance that counts. Trust me, it’ll be way easier for the foreign audience to connect with film in which all the characters speak english rather than having to watch it with subtitles.
Come on, no film is perfect. Instead we should commend foreign directors like Boyle who portray a true picture of india unlike most of the bollywood films.Also, how many bollywood films shot abroad portray a true picture of the west??(every character white,brown or black speaking in hindi,every 2nd person is indian).
@Mainak
Yes, i did see the film,I agreed for your argument of making the film in the language it is set in, the reason being that if all makers around the world who migrate to different cultures start making films in English,there would be no WORLD CINEMA in the first place and pl note there are people who cant catch up with the accent and watch the same English film with English sub-titles ON to understand it “better”,I cant imagine characters of CITY OF GOD talking in English instead of Portuguese, I really felt Danny should have made it Hindi , it would have sounded good and would have given the brilliantly shot film an earthy smell to it !!!
@Indraneel
Thanks Man, I can assure you of one thing about JAIL, it is a LANDMARK SCREENPLAY,we are planning to release it on
1st May 2009 !!!
GK
@ Tushar
“cus it all depends on how a scene plays out- an Irfan can make it all worthwhile(a mighty heart) at the same time a Rahul Bose can screw it all up with his Shakespearean twang, a Boman Irani can make you forget what language he is using, ditto for a Naseer or an Om”.
Tushar in Mighty Heart he speaks to firangs in English & Pakistanis in hindi from what I remember. In Slumdog he speaks to his constable in English. It made me cringe. I would love to ask Irfan about his experience.
I have seen couple of Merchant Ivory films about India. Same problem. It just looks fake to me. But I have not sen them all yet.
Salam Bombay was great as far as language is concerned.
Books are different compared to films. Books make you imagine your own perspective. In film you cannot do that. You have to be sold on what you see & what you hear. In this case I loved what I saw most of the time. Didn’t like what I heard.
@Raunak
“Come on, no film is perfect.”
I would disagree with that. I can make a list of 30 films in the next 10 minutes which are perfect. There are many films which are perfect.
Have you seen
MEMORIES OF A MURDER ?
SYMPATHY FOR MR VENGANCE?
SEVEN SAMURAIS?
E TU MAMA TAMBIEN?
CITY OF GOD?
Imagine these same films but in english. Now thats imperfect. And a crime against humanity.
@ Subrat
“Why is the language such an issue? I could understand that you didn’t like the “unbelievability” of the characters speaking in English but what did it rob the film of?”
Of its soul. Film is not just the visuals. They say sound is 50% of the film. Language is the soul of that other half.
——
“In any case, a director making a film out of material that is foreign to him starts with limits on his/her freedom and appreciating the idiom. Then you want him to make the film in a language which he doesn’t understand and stretching this argument further, you’d conclude that such a movie should have been made only by an Indian. Is that what you’re leading to?”
No. Anybody should be able to make movies anywhere. But they have to make sure they are true to the nuances of the language. Besides wasn’t Loveleen Tandon a Co-Director?
Imagine what Satya would have been if it didn’t have that language in it. Same film in diluted Bollywood Hindi.
If you look at history, most of the time when directors make films in foreign subjects they have failed. It usually works if they go from a foreign language to Hollywood/English. Like the 3 Musketeers of Mexico. And Many European directors.
For me the only films where I have managed to tolerate English spoken by people who are not supposed to when the film is about a larger than life famous person. Example like GANDHI & FRIDA come to mind. Thats because people like Gandhi are not just Indian anymore, they belong to everyone in this world.
Not Jamaal from Ghatkopar.
Thats why I’m having nightmares at the thought of Deepa Mehta getting the rights to make Midnights Children.
Thank you Mainak. While it is nice to feel unique I was beginning to think there was something terribly wrong with my response to the movie when I read fawning reviews in NY Mag, NY Times and even WSJ.
I’m wondering if it’s a case of Indian vis a vis foreign opinion. Apart from the jarring language the narrative seemed totally cliched and strained. The ending was incredibly contrived. Was this SUPPOSED to be a Bollywood spoof?
Mainak- I haven’t seen this one but I thought ‘Gandhi’ was a very good movie where most people speak in English.
Also shouldn’t you have the same problem if you read Indian characters in a novel speaking in English? Do you? I don’t and so I wouldn’t think this movie should bother me much.
@24
A novel is a description of a world from the first person or third person perspective where the story is more important much like a peruvian telling you a native story in english.Its upto you to recreate the world he is describing.
Movies are meant to transport you to the world itself, its not a description. Its upto the filmmaker to recreate the world as believable as possible. Once there is a dissonance in the film it stops being believable and becomes a waste of time.
@ DazedandConfused
I think you should read my comments also. Because I myself brought up Gandhi. And why a epic like Gandhi works. While films about normal people don’t.
And Indypendy has answered your question about the difference between books & cinema clearly. I could not have answered better.
@IndyPendy
Have you seen the film?
“Once there is a dissonance in the film it stops being believable and becomes a waste of time.”
BANG ON!
That is what spoiled the film for me. That Dissonance happens in 15 secs into the movie.
I think it depends what language you speak in India, honestly.
I don’t speak Hindi. The English that Ifran speaks was not at all disturbing to me. When Hindi is spoken, I found the subtitling very elegant and easy to read (next to the character so I didn’t have to “read” the movie).
However, my husband who speaks fluent Hindi did think it was a bit weird. So maybe it is perspective. I tried to think about whether I would find it odd if a movie set in Madras had very Tamilian characters all speaking in English… Perhaps.
But in this case, I didn’t find it jarring and it didn’t make the characters less believable. I just sort of glossed over it even though Dev did have a British accent.
Danny Boyle and others from the crew and cast were part of a post-screening panel at MIAAC last week.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/3015806251_794578f84c.jpg?v=0
Boyle said his original intention was to make an all-English-language movie. However, the casting director, Loveleen Tandon, insisted they go to slums like Dharavi to find the youngest trio who portrayed the three main characters. (Nine actors in all played three characters.)
The children in Dharavi had the most appropriate energy for the roles, but they did not speak English. So, it was a tough sell for Boyle to convince his financiers that part of the movie would be in Hindi. However, he promised he would try to make subtitling fun, which is how we got the subtitles that appear in various spots on the screen.
So, yes, it was curious how Jamal could pick up English from his humble background. Based on the above info, this may have been more due to casting than a story-telling choice, and to be fair, there are a few of his teenage years we do not see.
Meanwhile, Boyle did look at young Indian actors for the role of young-adult Jamal. He joked that the Indian industry’s eligible actors have done too much body building, but they were still very young and so their heads had not yet grown. Thus the actors’ heads were too small for their bodies. Dev Patel, however, had just the right slight physique for the part.
In order to get the feeling of India — and Mumbai in particular — as close to real as possible, Boyle used Suketu Mehta’s Maximum City as his bible. It was quite noticeable to me, as it was to my seatmate who agreed halfway through the movie, before Boyle mentioned it. He also said he’d promoted Loveleen Tandon to codirector because she was such a critical adviser to him.
A “Danny Boyle movie” is practically its own genre. If someone else directed Slumdog, it would have had a different feeling all together. Was the book in English? And what languages do children speak in Dharavi, anyway?
Actually, it is totally believable to me that the kids could learn English.
I have been hustled all over the world by kids just like these, and most of them spoke English. If you are going to work the tourists in Delhi, you had better learn the language.
In Peru, I befriended a group of kids just like this. There names were Robert DeNiro, Al Pachino, George Washington, you get the picture. They couldn’t decide whether or not to call me Meg Ryan or Shakira. Children who have to hustle tourists to support their families pick up a lot of Western knowledge along the way…
The language issue didn’t bother me at all in Slumdog. As Evelyn pointed out, a large film with subtitles is a major gamble in the West, one that studios aren’t willing to spend a lot of money on. If this were an Indian film, the complaint against English would be justified, but it is a British film intended for a large English speaking audience, not just the Art House crowd, and the audiences here in the US tend to reject films with subtitles.
That said, I tried to watch Shoot On Sight recently, and turned it off after 15 minutes. I just couldn’t believe that Hindi is the language spoken by white people at Scotland Yard, and it was laughable to me to the point of distraction. I totally support Mainak’s point, but don’t believe it applies to Slumdog.
On the topic of English/accents/language, why is it that actors who portray Americans in Hindi language films lately tend to have Australian accents? Hello was just the latest example of this. That is a dissonance that is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Watching Dostana yesterday was a breath of fresh air because the Americans actually spoke with American accents!
@ t! – I haven’t seen the film as yet but its very different when urchins talk to tourists in English because thats the language most tourists know (especially for the foreigners).
We’d been to Agra, Fathehpur Sikri (as you too happen to mention @ Delhi) and the kids were quite fluent and insisted on talking in English with us. But amongst themselves it was always Hindi.
These 2 are very different aspects. I’d expect the characters in the film to talk in Hindi amonst themselves…Thats the most natural thing…
@Mainak,
I really dont understand why this movie did not work for you.
Are you telling just because you could not digest the fact of showing indians speaking fluent english??
C’mon dude.There should be no reason why danny should’nt make this is english or so called HINGLISH as you say.
If you could watch Gandhi, you can enjoy Slumdog as well.
Thank you Arthi.
You are spot on. And I’m tired of explaining why watching 2 slumdweller brother speak to each other in English was unreal to me.
Its amazing!
You have a right to say you are bothered by it, and I’m sure the filmmaker would want to hear that response. However, the situation for the director is more complex than making a choice to use one language or another.
Also, I’ll rephrase my question above: Would these children speak Hindi to each other or some other language? I honestly don’t know. If their mother was a Gujarati Muslim, for example, would a regional language be more natural for them, anyway? If that’s the case, Hindi would be no more authentic than English, IMO. Just saying. :-)
@Arthi
U r BANG ON !!!
@Mainak
U have done ur best in explaining from a maker’s and an audience POV and I think that is sufficient enough
for now !!!
GK
@Arthi
Just missed one line : Arthi u must DIRECT !!!
GK
Mainak I had promised to write an article countering yours but it became moot once I read the trade papers today. Dostana made approx 600k of some 75 odd prints in North America. That’s a great figure for an Indian language film.In comparison Slumdog made 300k off 10 prints. I personally had no problem with them speaking in English and if it hadn’t been in English it wouldn’t be playing at Landmark or the Arclight. I don’t know of any film which is good where the director didn’t speak the language of the film. Mel Gibson used dead languages and he was succesful only once. Apocalypto didn’t make back its money and I don’t consider it a great film either. Passion had an inbuilt audience which ensured its success.
@Mitch
I have not seen Apocalypto(i been forgetting to get the DVD for almost a year now). Apocalypto suffered hugely because of Gibson’s drunken anti-semetic rant.
This language thing is a pet peeve of mine. I can only be jealous of people whom it doesn’t bother so much.
BTW I think SLUMDOG will be the biggest indie hit out of 2008. Fox is doing very well promoting it. For a year of Comic Book superheros on screen, it has very high chances of scoring big on awards.
Mainak…
I didnt realise the language barrier untill i saw your post. Unbelievable, how certain things effect people, while the same things go unnoticed.
Even if your point had effected me, i would have let it go as there is soo much in the movie t rave about, that you want to let go of other little things..i had some problem with the pacing of the movie in the middle part..but others thinsg were soo engrossing that i would care less about the pacing in some parts..
Also, as t! has pointed out, they HAD to learn the language…and as they grow, their english gets better..and mind you they were hustlers…its a trade, and language is a must..
Let me give you an example…i have a friend..he has two brothers..3 including him…he is essentially a telugite..but he and his older brother speak only hindi..be it in the house..outside..with friends or in private…even at the dinner table..they both speak to each other in hindi..while they reply in telugu to their parents or their kid brother…ha!!
A R Rahman, 1st Indian to be nominated for the Golden Globes (right?) for Slumdog Millionaire
http://www.imdb.com/features/rto/2009/globes
Movie has got nominated for best pic and direc too…
he also won the LA Film Critics Association Award for Best Score
http://www.altfg.com/blog/awards/los-angeles-film-critics-awards-2008/
I share Mainak’s views about the language issue, but even otherwise, honestly, this film did not work for me at all. Maybe it was technically well done and all, but the performances and the plot execution itself were utterly clicheed and made the movie terribly tedious after the initial spark of interest wore off. And yes, there was a dramatic shift in the film’s ability to keep me interested the moment everyone started speaking only in english. Perhaps it wouldnt have been so glaring if it hadnt been for the hindi portion with the kids, but suddenly shifting lock stock and barrrel to english made it very very contrived. The ending was utterly Bollywood, and tbh this film would have been torn apart if any Indian had made it. And what’s with the wimp they chose to play the older Salim? Most unconvincing. Dev himself was terribly accented and annoying. After a point I found the only way to even moderately enjoy the film was to neglect the fact that these characters were supposed to be Indian.