Rabbi/Sorry Bhai: Whom were they apologising to?
I wasn’t alone in wondering why jalate hai.n from Onir’s Sorry Bhai owed something to ballo from Rabbi Shergill’s Avengi Ja Nahin. It isn’t surprising, really, when you notice that Gaurav Dayal, the music director for Onir’s flick is credited as the music programmer and producer for ballo on Rabbi’s album. Rabbi sued, but unfortunately the courts didn’t heed the wisdom in the Krazzy/Sampath case. The Delhi High Court put a stay on the film forcing the release date to move past November 28, 2008, but eventually caved in and lifted the stay. The observations made justifying the court’s belief that there wasn’t enough water in Rabbi’s claim to bathe the horse of plagiarism are worth a shipment of guano:
We are of the view that the main constituent of the song is the melody and some similarity in the rhythm of the accompanying acoustic guitar can’t be sufficient to infer that the music director has plagiarized Shergill’s song. In any case, even the lyrics are completely different. So, we are, prima facie, of the opinion that the movie song is not a reproduction
Perfect. The dimwits seemed to have chosen to ignore the similarity in the melody. Also, did anyone listen to the lyrics of both songs? Methinks there’s more evidence of a filch there (if anyone cares). Here’s more:
[T]he division bench judges also heard the song in the chamber to conclude that the only similarity between the two songs Jalte Hain from the movie and Ballo from Shergill’s album was “in the use of guitar”. This apart, HC said, “there is some difference in the use of accompanying sounds, comprising other instruments.”
So much for being qualified. One hopes that, despite the Supreme Court’s refusal to do anything useful in this matter for now, the second RS joins the first RS in finding justice.
Album Name: Rabbi Avengi Ja Nahin
Song Name: Ballo
Album Name: Sorry Bhai
Song Name: Jalte Hain
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Tags: Audio, Music, Plagarism, Rabbi Shergill, sorry bhai
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Very interesting! Thanks for the post and the music. I had listened to both songs but listening to them side by side made for a nice exercise.
As for my layman’s verdict- there’s no doubt there are definite similarities but it doesn’t seem to be as clear cut a lift as that of the Krazy 4 case…
shameless! guess, when they named the movie, the makers were lefthandedly apologizing to the Rabbi for their non-kosher act.
This is awfully sad state of justice!! Whatever light was at the end of the tunnel, after Ram Sampath/Roshans case, has been proven to be of oncoming train!! Here’s three cheers to next generation of plagiarists!! And to see we have the director blogging here frequently to raise interest for his film, (and must have bashed other movie makers in the process, as is the rule)!! What happened to the ‘integrity’ when they allowed not only one, but two instances of lifts in the same album (yes, I am talking to you Vivek Philips)!!! :(
so not only did they lift the storyline from dan in real life, they lifted songs from rabbi too…
Even the title track of the movie is lifted from Justin Timberlake’s hit song “what goes around comes around”
i heard rabbi’s “nee ballo” two years back when i was offered to conceive and direct a music video for unicef. they had taken the song to campaign against female foeticide killings. it didnt happen though.
and its a shame that the makers of sorry bhai not only failed in attempting to make a “good imitation” but used the extraordinary word “tees”.
its such a superb, unexploited, deep word that i am sure none of the team members of sorry bhai could’ve ever discovered it. (Considering their lack of talent in all aspects of filmmaking)
seems Rabbi’s ‘Ballo’ guitar style was inspired by ‘More than Words’ by Extreme…the strumming pattern…not the actual chords…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt7L4X4li_k
It doesn’t concern the merits of the suit but, Justice Mukund Mudgal is ex-husband of Singer Shubha Mudgal.
Err… This is unfortunate, Rabbi is cool and earthy musician and Sorry Bhai is also a cool movie made with frugal budget :(
Hope filmmakers learn to be more cautious with their creativity.
wow. Rabbi ne banaa di ’some’ story!
ROTFLOLMAO!
oh Man, it’s a blatant lift and it’s pathetic Rabbi lost it. Hope somehow he gets justice. And ya they have made a very cheap copy of Rabbi’s song. I prefer Rabbi’s one anyday.
Have you guys heard the song “Aisha” by Outlandish. Rabbi stole his “Ni Ballo” from there. Hmm a poll fighting bout a copy of a copy!
@Debashish, thank God someone has talked about Rabbi’s source… someone who copies cannot really accuse of plagiarism! Not to defend plagiarism, but I think it is singularly underhand to file a case two days before the film’s release.
So @schenker knorroyen, @Tejas, @Abhay K, @Subhashish, etc… please don’t talk like Rabbi is some wronged saint. The sources of his song are also dubious. Anyone who files for a stay two days before release is just interested in a ’settlement’. I believe there might have been some issues between Gaurav Dayal and Rabbi over the number but we all know about the last minute arm-twisting that happens. Team Sorry Bhai went through a harrowing time – first deleting the song from all prints, and then putting the deleted portions back wherever possible… after the court verdict. Maybe the court was also trying to discourage such arm-twisting tactics.
@ Abhay K – don’t go around with absurd allegations – Sorry Bhai script was registered with the FWA 3 years ago.
Its very convenient when people start stating half facts. Today what we have gone thru because of this song is a nightmare. and I am wondering as a dir/producer how am i going to know next time I am hiring a music dir who signs a contract that the score will be original or he has the rights to it that it might not be.
You have to realise that rabbie’s appeal ( despite having been aware of the song in october) was one day before the release. I am not trying to defend plagarism and cannot comment on that till the final verdict is out , because as a defendant it would be contempt of court. But the high court passed the judgement after hearing Ayesha and they are not deaf who do selective hearing…. so what origanility are we talking of. But i do not as a person support the fact that both the songs might be copies of Ayesha.
Rabbies appeal wanted the song to be deleted from the movie… and despite immense harm to the film it was deleted. and if 90% of the theatres it remained that despite the courts asking us to put it back.
Today I am extremly worried about how to safe guard myself against the harm that might happen to my film.
Also sometimes ignorance is Bliss…. people comment without knowing That SB was registered with FWA in 2005…. thats 2 years befor Dan was released….
anyway the Ballo case is being heard by a music expert…. and whatever their verdict be we will stick by it…. am not here to defend plagarism…. but neither stand for blackmailfrom someone with possibly fake claims of originality
Many people have noticed here that i have been the music producer of Rabbi’s track as well. Can anyone here define a music producer???? Where does the compositional contribution of an artist end and a producer start, otherwise i would have been called an arranger. BTW I am very well known to Rabbi, if he had felt that my song was similar to his song, he could have called and had an argument with me directly… No such thing happened . As you have noticed, that ballo is also similar to songs like “aisha” by outlandish, and even closer to another version of “aisha” by M. A. Henda. It is very easy to hide your source of inspiration and be a genius. There was no conscious act of copying any song. Some influences do creep in sub consciously for any artist, and there are bound to be overlaps. The court has heard all three tracks many many times on Rabbi’s plea, and came to this judgement. Ram Sampath case was a completely different one, where all the music arangement etc. was blatantly the same. Please don’t be so judgemental and biased just because someone popular has made an accusation.
I wish Rabbi had picked up his phone & called Gaurav before going to the court.
Even though I think Rabbi’s song is highly superior(his great voice & no commercial pressure of Bollywood are probably 2 reasons among others), its not that much of a copy. Besides Rabbi himself can be charged with copying EXTREME.
Lets get on with life.
ok….maybe its a coincidence, onir….but i still thought it sucked…thats my opinion…..and t i almost shot myself when i saw boman irani, shabana azmi and chitrangada singh dancing in ridiculously uniform white clothes in the promo…
also OLLO kicked your movie’s ass
i;m sure as hell going to try to find out if the script registered in 2005 had the same man falls in love with brothers fiance storyline….
@Abhay K- damn right …..i think its cuz vashu bhagnani is the producer….i didnt even get to see the film it left theatres so fast
Abhay
Do you get some kind of sadistic pleasure in what you are saying?
The same thing could be said in a better way. Like – “OLLO was a much better film than Sorry Bhai.”
I would even agree with you on that. But why be so cruel on someone who is trying to make a good film in whatever way he/she can. There were a lot of firsts in Sorry Bhai.
Potrayal of a strong modern women without resorting to cliche.
That alone is worth making a film.
It was a good film, no doubt about that. But if I am to assume that Irene, Onir and Gaurav are arguing in favor of same cause, this is what it comes down to –
Jalte Hain is not a copy of Ballo.
But Ballo is a copy of Aicha.
And Gaurav in addition says,
He produced music for Ballo as well, so he can partially claim right on that song as well.
So at least he copied Ballo from Aicha.
Is it just getting mathematical? :P
Onir – I felt bad because here was a genuinely good movie, but whenever I will try to remember it, it will always come back to me as not one but two songs ’smartly modeled’ along other songs. (new definition for ‘inspiration’) I know this is a very thin line to cross, but it could have been avoided, don’t you think! And why would you not take responsibility of the entire product, when you say that in future you will have to worry about every MD’s input to your films? Would you have said same if the music was superhit without any allegations? Why question the timing of Rabbi’s plea in court? If the song was inspired from Khaled’s song, would you have blamed him for timing? Hopefully you will take this as a constructive criticism, in the sense that it has been intended.
strong potrayal of women my ass . . Really miss the 150 bucks i paid for this pretentious piece of shit. . Could you be more pretentious? Never gonna watch another onir movie. . And mainak people have the right to say what they want. . Dan in real life began pringcipal photography in 2006. . The script must have been written atleast a year ago. . In any case it wasnt a genius innovative story. . I wish chitrangada would have chosen a better film for her comeback
Khaled sung Aisha long before Outlandish did!I think Outlandish made mess out of it.
i really do not have that much of a problem if tunes and music are copied as long as it is acknowledged and prior permission taken. look at it this way, when a beautiful tune, composition is rendered in many ways, used in different songs it will reach a wider audience and more people will get to enjoy it. as it is with, you could say, indian classical music ragas. But, that said, lifting a tune without due acknowledgment is nothing short of thievery.
@Rambo, not defending but wondering aloud, did ‘Lage Raho Munnabhai’ acknowledge the source of the ‘har pal’ song…? Just curious since I remember no noise being made back then. Of course I agree that lifting tunes is wrong – no matter WHO does it.
@Janu, you’re a genius. The ‘Sorry Bhai’ writer obviously went to the US and flicked a pre-production script. I am sure you even know how and why… and since ‘Dan is Real Life’ was such a great script that one had to copy it. After all Indians cannot write original stuff, can they?
@Tejas, I guess team ‘Sorry Bhai’ will not try to make lame excuses but just be very careful in future about such ambiguities as seem to have arisen about the music. All the same I’ll condemn Khalid’s timing…
@ Vishal Chalchitra, if you got nothing better to do with your time, go ahead. Anyway, you haven’t even seen Sorry Bhai, so you don’t know what you’re talking about. Or do you watch pirated stuff?
@Abhay K, I don’t like your tone, so its pointless talking to you.
It’s ridiculous the argument than “if the song we copied is a copy of another song” – that doesn’t give you the right to copy a song in the first place. And Ms. Irene, you could be Onir or one of his team in disguise and no need to say “No I’m not”… cause we could have a poll here and most could see through your fake id.
You say “did ‘Lage Raho Munnabhai’ acknowledge the source of the ‘har pal’ song…? ”
- So does that give you (assuming you are Onir or one of his team) give you the right to copy and make Jalte.hain???
You are practically admitting here that “Prostitution is legal” and still screaming that you did nothing wrong…
PFC admin use IP and backIP links to find the source of Irene. I’m pretty sure they link to the same person from Sorry Bhai.
What a pathetic sorry state of affairs this…
@Jogi Thakur – you are a confused soul and cannot obviously read or think straight. My question was in contextof something Rambo wrote. I am not Onir but I am definitely Irene and a part of the team. Perhaps you hide behind names as you need to, I don’t. Your prostitution is legal quote is absolutely silly and irrelevant. I am not defending anyone’s copying anything – if you can read straight.
@ above comment correction – have written Khalid where I meant Rabbi.
Finally, even though there are sensible people like Tejas and Mainak here, people like Jogi Thakur and Abhay have discouraged me from any further participation here.
@ irene ..not that i am accusing any of the members for stealing the script from the PRE – PRODUCTION stage. i haven’t seen both – sorry bhai & dan .
but i disagree with the fact that the scripts cant leak.
i got my hands on quentin tarantino’s inglorious bastards two months back slated for release in 2010.
@Tejas
Thanks for your comment… i think u misunderstood me. Like I mentioned before. the first thing we did was delete the song from the film till matter was settled. and also in the end i wrote if both the songs are inspired from Ayesha I do not feel any bit happier. Hit/not hit is not the point. the case is anyway not against me…. I am worried how in future too a similar situation may arise and how can one make sure that this does not happen and tamper the film. … anyway to end it all…. just want everyone to know that it the case is being resolved…. probably by tom…. and it is a very sensible resonable one…. of course over enthusiastic dramatic ppl might be disaapointed ….
@Jogi…. am disappointed to see such ppl like you who probably do not know to read commenting here.. i do not need and do not hide behind someone elses name. if you had bothered to read u would have seen my comment earlier. anyway i suppose there is a lack of understanding eng sentence…. and thats why u r constantly shouting without eve understanding that the case in not against the film maker n i do not support inspiration/lift…. anyway. i ahve always been an active blogger at PFC. can take criticism…. but what i see here is not constructive criticism. no one seems to have the patience to hear… just scream…. also the language used is not done…. i used to blog here for growth but not negatiity from probably frustrated ppl. i too think this would be the last of me at this site. anyway continue ur hate campaigne… will give u peace
Been a silent spectator so far, but am now inclined to chip in. This is not the first copy seen on an Onir project. I’ve seen the financier of ‘Bas Ek Pal’ literally crying upon coming to know – after the movie was released – that the entire movie is a copy of a foreign movie.
Since Onir is the director of Sorry Bhai, it eventually falls on his shoulders to take responsibility of the copying of this music. So far he is either disassociating himself from the music director or as usual telling us how horrible it has been for him.
What people are also ignoring is the fact that 96% of the people in the above poll are voting Yes for the music being copied.
If Onir knew about this, why did he allow the song to be included in the first place?
rabbi is genius,,, he is heaven
all i’m saying is onir atleast have the gumption to state that the two scripts are similar, dan and sorry bhai…..maybe both writers got the same idea…maybe it was a coincidence but atleast acknowledge the fact that the are similar in terms of the plot……i for one didnt like sorry bhai cuz i found it too similar to dan in real life….can you really blame me for that? am i as a member of the audience supposed to appreciate a movie based on the effort put in,the technical exuberance etc ,inspite of the fact that i did not enjoy the movie because it reminded me of another movie….and am i then supposed to research the release date and script registration date for such similar films when the overall attitude of the industry tells me its nothing but a rip-off….maybe you’re not a chor….but do you think you’re really right in chastizing people who do jump to the same conclusion i did given the trends in the hindi film industry today?
irene whoever you are i think you ought to have a look at the tone in your own posts..
btw aisha was not copied by outlandish, it was sampled …khaled got a cut…….have no clue about rabbi
Maybe I am not that musically inclined but purely from the melody: I can’t hear it.
On another side: there is a limited number of chords and how to arrange them logically. Sometimes musicians copy without their conscious knowledge (of course, that argument would probably not hold up in this case).
@ Abhay K: And also, excuse me, but just because there are rip-offs in the Hindi film industry you feel that every Hindi film director personally has to prove to you that his film was not one of those? How about innocent until proven guilty?
Also as a Western viewer of Hindi films: I like how there are some genuine efforts to take copyright more seriously but you can also take it too far. Noone would accuse Shakespeare of violating copyright and in his time it was common and accepted to draw from earlier sources. And if Indian cinema manages to create a Munnabhai, I pick that over a Patch Adams any day because it is the superior film.
This is ridiculous. Everyone fighting over a song! I think both the film and the song was very good and support Onir and the music director for their efforts. I dont think the song was a direct copy.
it’s as blatant a copy as any. the reductionist argument that in the end its the permutation of a few notes and (subconsciously) similar tunes can happen is dubious. a whole song- down even to the pauses in the vocal(!) – being ditto can hardly be a subconscious or unconscious ‘inspiration’.
the larger implication of course is that the judgement exposes good work, past and future, to plagiarism.
Disclosure: I am a rabbid rabbi fan!
What’s disturbing is that hardly anyone is mentioning the fact that the title song of Sorry Bhai was a complete rip-off of Justin Timberlake’s song What Goes Around. I wonder what Onir has to say about that?
As if that weren’t enough, the movie is a blatant rip-off of the Nicholas Cage’s movie Moonstruck.
@Neel – you probably didn’t read comment # 3.
Gosh! Its amazing how some misinformed souls take the liberty to shit all over other people’s hard work. I am probably one of the loudest voices against plagiarism in this bollywooden industry of ours, so to read a comment that my song (title song of sorry bhai) is a “lift” or “complete rip-off” of a timberlake song is so infuriating and insulting!!! and makes me sad.
Anyone who understands the nitty-gritties of music creation will understand what im going to say… i hope my points can get across to some ignorant self-proclaimed critics too…
Similarity between two pieces of music may be due to any of four reasons:-
1. Coincidence:– There are only a max of twelve notes in the most commonly used musical scales. There are limited number of instruments and rhythms too. Its not surprising that every permutation and combination has been used over and over again in the history of music. So its hardly surprising that most songs will have some similarity to some song somewhere in the world.
2. Sub-conscious inspiration:– This is the most common resource that most genuine composers fall prey to. As artists, we are forever learning from others’ works and trying to improve our own art. Other artist’s work that we appreciate inadvertently finds its way into moulding our own ideas and styles. Everyone cannot be a Beethoven or Mozart or God!
3. Conscious inspiration:– Sometimes you feel so passionate about a song or piece of music that you tell yourself “Man i love this so much, i want to do something like this!”.
4. Blatant copying, rip-off:– Needs no explanation.
Now coming to the SB title song… just now i hav gone thru the timberlake track thrice to refresh my mind. I ll be frank and point out the similarities myself – timbrlake starts his song with “Hey girl”, my song starts with “Aye bhai”… thats the only similarity in the whole main melody! Then there’s a line of the chorus that sings “I said im sorry bhai, so sorry sorry about it”; these words had instantly reminded me of the timberl song and i ended singing it in a ’similar’ way in my head, and that found its way into the song. Then there’s the drum-rhythm… Dammit its a hiphop groove; they all hav the same boring 4/4 with a clap on the upbeat. But what makes my groove more similar is the hi-hat pattern (the chikchik drum sound). Sometimes you hav to go with what sounds best, and not change every little similarity that crops up, just for the sake of being completely different. Im sure mr. timberlake would agree too.
Years back, when i started listening to hiphop, i remember commenting on a music forum “Why do most hiphop songs sound the same?”… but obviously i could tell they were not copies.
Draw your own conclusions but please dont misguide others. Thanks.
Honestly, i dont get swayed by fame and popularity; Of course its nice to get positive feedback from junta, i appreciate it and thank them; but what really drives me is the feedback i get from people i respect, people who appreciate good music, people who understand the compositional nuances, the finer details within a song and the effort that goes into producing it… They always give me a true appraisal of my work. So wayward comments by casual listeners like tejas or neel should not matter much to me; I only feel bad that people like onir are affected, thats why im here doing all this explaining (and also bcos my mom insists that i defend myself against these false accusations).
I make music for a living yes, but i make music mainly for self-satisfaction… its a personal thing for me; so obviously, “lifting” or “copying” a song can only be dis-satisfying and dis-respectful towards my own self. I request tejas and neel and whoever else to listen to the SB title track and that timberlake song back-to-back a few times, and if you still think its a copy, thats really your problem sir ;)
@ Vivek Philip
“1. Coincidence:– There are only a max of twelve notes in the most commonly used musical scales. There are limited number of instruments and rhythms too. Its not surprising that every permutation and combination has been used over and over again in the history of music. So its hardly surprising that most songs will have some similarity to some song somewhere in the world.”
This, coming from a music director? I’m a music director working for 3 new medium budget bollywood movies, have worked for television for 5 years. I can understand illiterate producers talking about 12 notes, and limited instruments and rhythms, but a music director saying such things shows he’s either totally uneducated in music theory, or so totally untalented he is only capable of ripping-off music.
Imagine a writer ripping off a novel and blaming it on there being only 26 alphabets and 10 emotions in human repertoire. Thats Vivek Philip and Gaurav Dayal for you. Possibly a more accurate description of Onir as well from his posts defending the script and the music.
@ Vivek Philip
I listened to the two tracks from a composer’s point of view, to give you a fair chance. Seems my judgement of you based on your comment was right on the mark.
1 – You have ripped off the entire bassline – thats not a beat or rhythm, its notes you copied, including the position, number and duration of notes on the staff (if you even know what a staff is). Coincidence? Eat shit.
2 – Rhythm ripped off to the last fill-in. Same pattern, same fill ins, same instruments, even the same fx added to the carefully selected snare kick hats etc sounds to sound as close to the justin track as possible. Of course your ridiculously loud claps in the mix couldnt compare to the tightly layered snares in Justins mix.
3 – Same scale as Justins song
4 – Same tempo as Justins song.
wtf?? Two songs in the same tempo, scale, with the same bassline and rhythm.. and its a coicidence? Did you use a vocal remover plugin to remove vocals off the justin track hahaha! Good job dude. This is what the minus track developers for the karaoke industry do, not music composers.
5 – Ripped off violin riffs. er.. did you add anything of your own at all?
6 – Melody – Justins melody with the same scanning with the notes shifted here and there in the songs scale.
7 – “Hey Bhai”, “Hey Girl”.. hillarious. Are you credited as the lyricist as well? Lets have the lyricist here defending the song as well.. the entire circus under one roof.
I cant possibly believe Onir himself didnt know of the similarity, acting all backstabbed by the music directors. Serves him right.
Why the last minute case technique music directors are resorting to? Is there any other way to get compensation from the producers the way the Indian legal system works?
Its like they say – if you cant face the time, dont do the crime.
And if caught, stop trying to defend yourself, you only look more foolish.
@Vivek Philip
Quote:
” Dammit its a hiphop groove; they all hav the same boring 4/4 with a clap on the upbeat”
If its so boring, why are you making it? Oh I forgot, you were just replacing vocals on others’ instructions..
“I make music for a living yes, but i make music mainly for self-satisfaction”
Well if it ain’t the eternal conundrum.. why does Vivek Philip make self-confessed boring stuff for his self satisfaction?
Answer: He’s too boring too do anything more imaginative with only the 12 notes he has in his music knowledge bank.
@Nitin Gupta
I dont know why you’ve come out with this false analysis of my song and launched on an inflammatory and personal attack on me. Maybe youre a close friend of tejas, neel and you feel offended that i disagree with them. Or maybe you have some other issue with me… i hav not the faintest clue.
The bassline is different, the tempo is different, melody different, violin riffs different, etc, etc. I cant help if the scale is same. I dont recollect hearing of you, but if you really are a music director (with all your claims to medium budget ballywood phillums and balaji soaps) how can you say a song is copied bcos the scale and tempo are same? And to say i used a vocal remover to remove timberlake’s vocals and use the same track, when any informed working musician knows that there is no such software that effectly does the job on a track with stereo vocals. Ridiculous!!! Nitin dood youre making an ass of yourself.
Im trying to get a minus-one version of the timberlake song… i want to hear you sing sorry bhai on top of that since you claim the melody and progressions and riffs are the same. Call me, lets meet. If you can prove to me that the song is ripped off, i swear i wont make another song for this industry…
That will give people like you more opportunity in this competitive industry… those few people (we know) who try to move up by demeaning and defaming others in a public forum. This is the first time im getting negative feedback like this from a co-worker and musician. I wont be surprised if you continue your personal attack on me here and elsewhere, but believe me, you wont get support from people who know of me and my work, and those are the people who matter to me, not opportunists like you.
Quote: “He’s too boring too do anything more imaginative with only the 12 notes he has in his music knowledge bank.”.
You obviously havent bothered to listen to my other work. Now I come up with a song that vaguely reminds of some other song and you get all excited and come charging at me with false accusations. Do you hav the balls to publicly reprimand those big names who so blatantly and openly resort to plagiarism? I dont think so.
Try to chill, dood. No harm in being nice.
Somebody who composes the songs like ‘le chalein’ and ‘dheemy dheemy’ cannot be anything less than imaginative, talented and creative. I dont believe such a person can ripp-off another composer’s song. Vivek has created some great songs and deserves some credit and respect. Obviously this Nitin Gupta is a not a pleasant person, so i am wondering if his music may be pleasing to hear or not. I think he might be having some personal issue with vivek as his coments are derrogatory and abusive. It is a personal attack on a public board, wasting the time of other readers. Action should be taken against such bloggers.
@Vivek Philip
The ‘vocal remover plugin’ comment was obviously sarcasm that you missed.
I was pointing out all the musical ‘coincidences’ between your song and Justins. They sound the same – arrangement wise, lyrics wise, tune wise, tempo wise, scale wise. And I still have to prove its a copy? What more proof do you want? Do you actually want me to go through the deleted files on your PC and find the nuendo or protools project where you loaded the Justin track and copied the arrangement instrument by instrument? Sorry dude, I dont feel the need to do that.
As for “If you can prove to me that the song is ripped off, i swear i wont make another song for this industry…”
&
“Do you hav the balls to publicly reprimand those big names who so blatantly and openly resort to plagiarism? I dont think so”
Pritam made the same comment for his rip-off of Ye Ishq Hai, that he would stop composing forever if proved its a copy. He didnt and neither will you, because a thief never stops stealing. Read my comment on Pritams (March 08) interview to see I dont just target small time composers like you, but hate all bloody composers who feed off western talent, demeaning Indian talent and making us feel so inferior to the talent abroad -
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/2008/02/28/10967/index.html
If you are talented, please do something original next time, and I will be all praises. Just dont blatantly rip off western songs, because it makes me feel our musicians are totally lacking of any talent and skill.
I have never heard of you or your song before I read this post, but seeing you defend an obvious copy just got me seeing red. Please stop trying to defend this obvious ripoff, and concentrate on your future work.
Wishing you all the best, and here’s hoping that you stop being ‘inspired’ from the west, because we as indians should learn to believe more in our own worth.
Heres the link to the song Pritam copied his song from -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VKQikE0YR4
He’s the biggest plagiarist in the industry. 60% of his songs are copied, including 90% of his hits. The 40% he composes himself are duds. I just recorded in a studio where I was played an Assamese song and Pritams version that he has ripped off for his next movie, note to note.
Just so you dont feel I have something personal against you, Vivek.
@Vivek –
You assume too much when you say that ‘casual listeners’ like tejas. Also, now you want to tag Nitin along with me because he too finds the similarities in your song that I do. How about this – you tell us now that Rabbi Shergill is also a friend of ours, and it’s our collective conspiracy to bring you down. It’s also surprising to see that two members of Sorry Bhai!! team think that I am making sane and rational comments, and the two major culprits think otherwise.
‘Hey Bhai’ song’s introductory violin tune is very similar to Timberlake’s ‘Don’t want to think about it’ lines. I don’t want to hold anything against you for inspired instrumental pieces though. I am aware of the whole deal about commercial loops etc., and the clear distinction between a copy and use of commercial loop.
I haven’t heard any of your previous work, so I am not passing comments on how your other songs were melodious and this one is a borrowed melody. But with this song alone, there is more than just the similarity between the two songs.
I have followed Onir’s blog on Bollywoodhungama and his discussion with Karthik (under nick Kay) of www.itwofs.com Onir clearly seems not only frustrated but also strangulated by his own team members, than by Rabbi or the court orders.
@Vishal – the guy who gave us ‘Baazigar’, ‘Border’, ‘Refugee’, ‘Aks’ and ‘Asoka’ has note-by-note copied Macarena. Twice. So there..
Cmon yaar, give me some credit. There are similarities, but its not a copy or rip-off like you put it. And pl stop misleading people on this forum with your false accusations… the tempo is different (72 vs 84; if youre a musician you should be able to tell the considerable difference); lyrics are so different, its not even a translation; the tune (the main aspect that goes into making a song and hence the main thing that qualifies a song as a copy or not) is so different!; chord progression is different; and what was that about the bassline and violin riffs being ripped off? Nitin, are you drunk or something??? Sounds like youre on a mission to just label me a “uneducated, untalented, boring, unimaginative thief” without any credible substanse in your rantings. Yes there are similarities in the arrangement which i have admitted and spelled out myself in this thread. But to call it a copy or rip-off is so unjust.
I worked my butt off on this song; the process went thru 3 drafts over three months; i was still not fully satisfied, and bit unsure as this hiphop genre is so new to me. Some fellow musicians and i listened to various hiphop tracks for new ideas (composers all over the world, even timblake, do this all the time so dont get upset) and when i heard the timblake song it just struck as the feel im looking for. So the hi-hat pattern, couple of fills, and part of the chorus riff were re-arranged to sound similar and that lifted the whole song further. The starting ethnic riff was always in the middle of my song, i shifted it to the beginning after hearing timblake song, and started the main beat after the riff. So the starting ’structure’ does sound like the timblake song, so some people just heard that and start shouting “copy, copy”. Jeez! Unfortunately for me, the first instinct for some is that the song is copied, and first impressions are always lasting. I wish i hadnt heard that timbl @#$% song.
I cant believe im actually having to defend myself, its so stupid, but im really pissed and hurt by these false accusations. Actually its pointless… its so difficult to explain things in writing, and anyway nitin and co. will continue with the same senseless accusations, hitting below the belt, spewing abusive remarks.
Oh btw nitin, your hatred for western talent is your personal issue. If they make you feel inferior thats your problem, your insecurity. Putting your colleagues and competitors down to gain a pseudo sense of superiority is not the right way of dealing with your inferiority complex. Also, by your reasoning, you would be calling geniuses like rehman and panchamda “uneducated, untalented, unimaginative thieves”… as well as The Doors, George Harrison, Coldplay, Flaming Lips,…
http://magazine.jamsbio.com/2008/10/30/riff-offs-10-songs-that-resemble-other-songs/
Obviously i am nothing compared to them, but your reasoning would cast your acerbic remarks at them too. People like you tend to look for a single negative event to make a complete judgement of a person’s character. Shame on you.
Mr. Nitin, you know what, get in touch with me, come over to my studio next week, and go through my SB song sessions, even the old ones… then you might understand what im trying to say. I’ve said enough here, too much infact. Im outta here.
It’s alright Vivek. If you read that article, you must know that The Doors were made to pay The Kinks for the song ‘Hello I love you’. :P Coldplay and Joe Satriani are at war already about the ‘Viva La Vida’ song. Even George Harrison admitted to having a subconscious inspiration from the original song. That’s one thing you guys have been constantly turning down.
Here’s wishing you luck..keep giving us good and hassle-free music in future.
@Vivek Philip
Quote -
“this hiphop genre is so new to me. Some fellow musicians and i listened to various hiphop tracks for new ideas ”
Ok, now I understand what happened. It is a hazard trying out songs outside one’s own genre.
You see, hiphop, rap etc are not genres like ballads where the tune is the main song. The whole arrangement is sometimes bigger than the song. If you hear black music you will realize most of them dont have any tunes to speak of, they are the arrangement themselves. Most likely someone like you not used to hiphop will not be able to bear it for more than 10 minutes.
Somehow Bollywood has marginalised arrangement and made the tune the whole song, as in Rabbi’s judgement, which was the stupidest thing I read in a long time – again a hazard of a layman trying to judge something outside his field.
I wonder if you heard about the trouble Vanilla Ice got into for ripping off just a bassline from Queen’s Under Pressure, years ago in his song Ice Ice Baby. It was just one bassline, and it made headlines.
Rehman had copied Ace of Base’s bassline in a song ‘Telephone Booth Mein’ (If I remember right) and a lot of my musician friends lost some respect for him for that. Of course a couple of tamil producers have played me whole songs they have asked rehman to copy, and he has done so..
Anyways, I can understand your point of view, trying to compose something not in your genre, you are just not used to thinking along those lines, so something like this happened.
And I never said we are inferior to western musicians, just that half the industry copying off something or other from the west makes it seem like we have no talent of our own. Scripts, tunes, arrangements, lyrics, scenes, dialogs. Its plain disheartening.
Look at Korean cinema, Japanese cinema, Thai cinema, German cinema, Russian cinema etc. They do their own thing and they can be proud of it.
I take back my comments and wish you luck in the future. If theres a delete function I will delete my posts, seeing your heart was not in the wrong place.
Tejas, even though you too accused me of copying that song, it strangely feels good to read your post bcos you havent hit below the belt like that nitin guy.
You know youre right about that violin riff sounding like the timblke chorus line. Believe me or not, its a very simple and common phrase… it must hav been used in thousands of songs. I could hav changed a note or two and it would hav sounded completely different. But i liked the way it sounds, so when i heard a similar riff in the timb song, but in the chorus, i didnt bother changing it just to be different. Anyway, listen carefully… its a different structure.
Infact a few similarities like this had drawn my attention immediately when i heard the timb song (it was uncanny… hard to believe, i know). That timb song really got me grooving and that led to the finishing touches on my song. If you hav the time and inclination youre welcome to drop in and i ll take you thru the whole process this song went thru.
Onir and i are close friends, we have worked together on every project. I know he feels strangulated by team members, and i know its not me, cos he would tell me directly; we are that close. I wont comment any further on this as its a sensitive issue.
This thread was started about something else and i got dragged into it. Maybe i dragged myself into it; I should hav just shut up like people usually do… seems like such a waste of time.
Well…good luck once again, and hope to listen more from you!
Nitin, now i can hear you, bcos you’ve decided to be decent.
Dont delete your posts… its a prize thread… though the original subject was kinda hijacked by us…
so what is the final verdict did he copy or not?? or was it ’sub-conscious inspiration’?? man, sounds like the scientific name for wet dream hahaha
Vivek – All the best for the future, Im sure you will do great work!
Here’s one of the movies I am working on (Road to Sangam) -
http://in.movies.yahoo.com/news-detail/39268/Road-To-Sangam-Currently-Being-Shot.html
The other is Black Cinderella -
http://movies.dcealumni.com/archives/movie-preview-black-cinderella/
Couple of animated movies (ghatotkach, prahlad) -
http://www.animationxpress.com/index.php?file=story&id=6121
I used to give the background score for CID and Aahat at one time.
Will look forward to watching them.
Here’s wishing everyone a fab new year. Enjoy, be safe, be nice, help a starving child. Love.
I started reading the blog posts relating to Sorry bhai jut after watching the beautiful movie. And got trapped in these discussion. No I don’t want to add fuel to this wildfire, I myself am a musician, much small time than the guys in discussion. It hurts when I hear about plagiarism in Bollywood. I love to hate and hate to love Pritam’s music. As much I love his arrangement (I won’t call it composition) in Metro, I hate to write one good thing about the movie’s music in any forum because of the songs being blatant copies!
Pritam does the best – he copies music from world over, and maintains complete silence, while the entire world goes crazy discussing about him. Its good wy of publicity – remember the first rule of publicity, ‘No publicity is bad publicity’!
And so Vivek, I guess you should learn to keep silent, rather than the inane justification like one song is 72bpm, goes tik-tik-tik-tik other one goes tik..tik..tik..tik (84bpm) – so much for ‘Life in a Metronome’ ;-)
@bollywoodplusplus
72bpm should be tik..tik..tik..tik and
84bpm should be tik-tik-tik-tik
:-D :-D
Extremly nice movie and fantastic soundtrack. Mr Rabbi shergill has nothing better to do these days actually a few hits initially and no work after that is making him run after other music directors and film producers to make some free money out of them.
Gauruv’s music is outstanding and both the songs are different.
Its kind of funny even to start this controversy when most of the songs in the industry are partial or complete copy of songs from other films which includes some of the senior and popular music directors as well.
Any argument rests at that, since the court has given verdict in favour of Gaurav Dayal.
JUST because Mr Shergill is more known ,I am not at all biased.
I wish Gaurav all the best in his future projects.
Niti
16 february 2009
also want to add that Gauruv Dayal is a Computer Engineer by profession who has turned to music production for his love of music unlike Rabbi Shergil who is a college dropout . His allegations are really baseless.
Gaurav Dayal’s music in the movie sorry Bhai is very well done.
I completely disagree with allegations from Rabbi.
Gaurav is a Computer Engineer by profession and has turned to music production for his love for music and therefore I refuse to believe that his music is not original.
Rabbi has not shown any professionalism . I have read somewhere that he is a college dropout whose one or two albums are hits. Is that enough to make false allegation!!!
ananya kapur – in other words, satyam raju never lies, and bill gates never speaks truth. right?
I am not here to take any quanadrums. I congratulate Onir for finding a very fine and refreshing music director in Gaurav Dayal.
I agree Mr Rabbi is the famous one but new talent should be encouraged and not harassed in this manner. Rabbi seems to know Gaurauv very well and then why no questions were asked earlier.
He comes out with allegations just two days prior to release of the film!! I like rabbi music too but refuse to support anyone blindly.
Gaurav even brought in some
fantastic music from abroad into the film. Any way i once again congratulate onir his team and the music director for bringing out a very fine movie and excellent music
also in other words Mr wb I am trying not to be biased as I have seen that the movie as well as the music has been really appreciated outside of India. I am from country of mr gates and completely understand what professionalism means.
wb
there is no comparison b/w mr gates and mr rabbi , please!
I am signing out thanks.
I think the matter is already settled in court in favor of Gaurav Dayal and majority of the voters here are people like me with great interest in music but minimal knowledge of what it takes to create good music.
Bias usually goes in favor of famous. So I am not at all surprised with above voting.
But guys please pay attention to what has happened in the court where the decision is made by some sort of experts.
” Gaurav is a Computer Engineer by profession and has turned to music production for his love for music and therefore I refuse to believe that his music is not original.
Rabbi has not shown any professionalism . I have read somewhere that he is a college dropout whose one or two albums are hits. Is that enough to make false allegation!!!”
ananya…I think your logic doesnt make any sense.Read your statement.Peace!
I have read all of the above and heard the two songs.
Rabbi is the popular one therefore bias in his favor is expected. But the court has not taken that into account and settled he case in favor of Gaurav Dayal. Good to see that.
People are saying that movies is a copy, tiltle song is a copy and gaurav’s song is a copy !!
Enough guys , give this team some credit for coming up with an Excellent Movie and Refreshingly Nice Music .
AND ALSO CREDIT TO THE FILM DIRECTOR FOR FINDING FINE NEW TALENT IN MUSIC. I think, mere khuda ad jalte hain both are very good songs .
Most of the music in bollywood , anways sounds like you have already heard before!!
Please spare new directors from such a poor response just because everbody likes to hear rabbi’s punjabi voice .