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Second and concluding part of the excerpts from a conversation occurred between Director Raju Hirani(RH), and Ajay Brahmatmaj (AB), is presented here.

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[Following is the translation of the Hindi Interview and may not do full justice to the original interview so to read the exact sayings of Raju Hirani, one should go through the original interview. This is simply a trial to expose the interview to those readers who can not read Hindi at all]
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AB: How could you preserve your dream of directing the films? Advertising work was fetching you good money. Did this not distract you from your dream of filmmaking?

RH: I had not come from Nagpur with a thought that I would make documentaries or would do Ad films. I think nobody comes thinking this sort of things. I did not know about Ad films in Nagpur. When I joined the Institute then TV was also not like, as we see it today. This determination was there that I have to make films and 100% I have to make films. But I was not getting the right door to enter in to the field. I was not able to meet right kind of people. It was difficult to meet people then. I was not having a good exposure of feature films. Then I started meeting with Vinod Chopra. I felt that I had met with a man of passion. Some people make films for money and some make because they get fun in making films. I remember that when we used to make films in Institute then they used to have no commercial angle attached with any aspect of filmmaking but still we used to enjoy the process of filmmaking. I did not get same pleasure while making Ad films because here you make Ad films for somebody else. You have this impression that he has to sell some products and you have to package your ad film accordingly. Back in the Institute we used to make films with a passion. All the students used to do different exercises. We would make it like this, we would explore this in this manner and we would do this and that. Films were made and we screened them also. So many times we used to feel that we have got straight back bone and there was certainly a difference in our walking. That was fun. I got back that kind of fun while making Munna Bhai MBBS. I did not think any other thing and made it because I was enjoying each and every second of the process of its making.

AB: How did it happen after Mission Kashmir? Vinod suggested you or you requested him to produce the film?

RH: Before this, Vinod had not produced any film for others. He used to produce his own films. I enjoyed editing his film. I had edited films before also but I had not got as much enjoyment as I got while working with him. After finishing his film I thought that this was the right time for me to make my own film else I would not be able to make it ever. Before that it was happening that I was busy in making Ad films. Whenever I got a gap of a week time, I used to work on script but I used to get Ad film’s work regularly so again I used to become busy in Ad films for next 3 months. So many years had passed in this fashion only. Scripts were not completed and if some were completed then they did not look convincing and they were not liked.

AB: You had got married by then. What about Children?

RH: Yes I had got married and had got children also. My wife works so financial problem was not there. My wife works in Indian Airlines. I had done enough work and had saved the money also. I thought that if I did not do any work for a year or so even then I could survive. So I decided to give me a chance for six months and if nothing worked then I had an option to go back to Ad world. Scripts used to come by fax in my office. I stopped looking at them. All the people in my office started feeling fear and they started saying that I was going mad. After six months I felt that I had a good script with me and I went to meet Vinod. I had not thought that he would produce it. I asked him to arrange meetings with some actors because if an actor becomes ready to do my film then financers could be arranged bit easily. I had my own production house. I thought if I got a financer then I also could make the film. I had the experience of producing the films. He asked me with whom I wished to meet? Then he said that how he could introduce me to the stars in this manner as he did not know anything about my script. I gave him the narration of the script. He liked it and suggested few changes. I started meeting him for 1-2 months after that meeting and I was making changes as per his suggestions.

AB: You already had a story with you?

RH: I had a story about three medical students. Back then in my time students either used to join engineering or medical. I wanted to join engineering but could not and many of my friends had joined engineering or medical. While doing B.Com, I used to do plays also and many of my friends who were now students of medical college also joined our theatre group. My classes used to run from 7-10 AM and after that I was free so I used to go to the Medical college and we used to do rehearsal there in their hostel. I used to visit there a lot and I observed many things there during these visits. I had a habit to write and I used to keep a diary with me to note down whatever thoughts came to my mind. Those thoughts remained with me at FTII also. After coming out of the institute I had written the script on the basis of the story of three medical students. Story had lots of comedy scenes. Scenes were interesting but I felt that a solid story was not there to connect those scattered scenes in a coherent manner. Those scenes were funny on reading but a common link was missing so that those scenes could look part of a story having an interesting continuity. So that script was always lying with me.
Then I started writing second script, Babu Ji dheere chalna” but its construction was not pleasing me. A person was there in the story. He dies and he comes back as a ghost and tells what had happened with him. Story was related with the lacking in the medical system. I refined it but still I was not satisfied with it and felt that it was not real. Then I got a thought that what if a Bhai joins a medical college? I felt that there could be many funny things in this plot and there could be remarks also against the lacking in medical system.

This thought had occurred to me after Mission Kashmir. So I developed it further in next six months.

AB: Then you recited the story to Vinod?

RH: Yes and he liked it. He had few issues with the story and I worked two more months on the story. Sometimes I used to feel that he was only suggesting me about the story but was not arranging my meeting with any actor. He was suggesting me and I was bringing those changes in the script. Then one day he asked me,” Who would produce the film?” I said that I had talked with few people but nothing was finalized yet. He said me that he would like to produce it.
Then we discussed that which actor should be taken in the film. He suggested Shahrukh’s name. In my imagination I started flying in the sky.
First film and that too with Shahrukh Khan!
Whatesle you may desire?
He phoned Shahrukh Khan. Shahrukh was shooting for Devdas then. I went to him to give a narration but he said that he had not got the time and I should leave the script with him and he would read it later.
I thought that he would not read it but he read it and phoned me next day that he has liked the script and we should meet. Afterwards we met continuously for one month. Discussion was going on and on and I felt that after liking the script he was assessing me whether I was able to make the film or not? He gave his consent after one month and said that we would work together.

AB: Because Vidhu Vinod Chopra was with you in this project?

RH: A person wants to know about director and his capabilities. He is super star and why he should work with a new director? Then he got the problems in his back and he went abroad for the operation. Then I got to know that it might take 1 year to start my film and perhaps I w’d have to wait for two years also because he was doing many films then.
Then Sanjay Dutt’s name dropped in. I felt that I had a project with Shahrukh and it has been stopped and now I would have to make same film with Sanjay. Later I felt that nobody could do it better than Sanjay. Whatever happened, it happened for a good purpose.

AB: Did you pass through any kind of despondencies while making Munna Bhai. Whether film will be completed or not or what will be its future?

RH: No. My film was completed in 2 years. Mission Kashmir was completed in 2000. I started writing in October. I recited the story to Vinod, sometime in the middle of 2001. Vinod said yes to produce the film but still it took 2 years. Vinod had given me assurance that film would surely be made though it might take some time. So I was confident. A worry was there because I was not doing any other work. I had not taken many ad works in my hands since last 3 years. There is a pressure of not doing any work. I used to do 1 or 2 ad films whenever I faced financial crisis. But I never felt a fear. There was a gap of 3 years between first and second Munna Bhai also. I feel that if you hanker after the money then you will be earning money only and can not write the scripts. Write in relaxed manner and money will come to you this way or that way.

AB: If I ask about influence of other directors on you then whose names you will quote? There can be an impact of working with Vidhu Vinod Chopra but there should be some other directors also?

RH: I was influenced by Hindi cinema. I have heavy influence of Hrishikesh Mukharjee on me. I have seen many of his films and I like them. I still can recall his films which I had seen in my childhood. Just other day we were discussing about Anand and I recited that poem of the film “Maut tu ek kavita hai…..”. I myself was surprised because I had seen the film many years ago in my childhood. So films remain in the memory.
Gulzar Saab’s films have been influencing me a lot. I like all his films. I got to understand many things after meeting with Vinod. I learnt more about way of living from him than the art of film making.
Vinod is completely a non-filmi kind of person. He is a man of honesty and good heart. He is little misunderstood by others because he speaks bluntly and he speaks rather on face of the people. I know him closely. I have seen that he is very clean kind of person. In every situation he carries one thing above all the other things that he has to be fair. He is a man of principles. I have learnt a lot from him. How he handles his family, work and personal life. He has an amazing attitude. He made me bit fearless and I feel that my fears are vanished. Not that I had some big fears before but there is certainly a difference. A man has this fear that if he does not work then what would happen? Now I don’t suffer from this fear. Vinod is a very fearless kind of person. People fear about money and other people’s opinion about them and now such notions don’t affect me. These are his influences on me. He also has found passion in his work. I have observed him. He does not make his films by considering that if he makes his film this way then it would work more in overseas markets or this film will work more here in the country. He goes to Rajsthan to make Eklavya because he likes to make film in that way only.

AB: You came with a film like Munna Bhai in this time of Hindi cinema and your film does not have that kind of shining and dazzling decoration as it is seen in other contemporary films. Did not you think that you should also follow other filmmakers?

RH: That is why I say that filmmakers should have courage. N Chandra Saab met me in a film festival in Goa. He saw me and came running towards me. I can not forget it. Munna Bhai was released few months ago. He said,” You have revived my confidence in my kind of films. I had started my career with this kind of films only and I used to make them without any fear. I used to feel that one should make a film through heart. Later I started feeling that I should add this and that to make it more commercial and I lost my structure in this confusion. If you had come to me with this script I could have shown you the exit. Who would watch a film dealing with hospital, patients and Doctors because it does not have any commercial element in it. But after seeing the success of your film I have realised again that one should make a film which is liked by his heart first”.

I will appreciate that he opened his heart before me and said honest opinion. Such things encourage you that you should make what you like and you should not make it by considering what others like because we can not know what others like. We can be sure about what we like only. And if we make sincerely what we like then we can have a hope that others will like this passionate effort.

AB: But you had an amazing patience. You made your first feature film after waiting for 16 years. This is not an easy thing to preserve a dream for 16 long years. I am pointing out this fact because new directors loose the hopes so early and so easily. What would you like to say to struggling directors? Everybody sees that Munnabhai was the first film of Rajkumar Hirani and he made such a nice film in his very first attempt. But people don’t know the struggle done before this first film.

RH: I always say that I did not feel any struggle. If I want to make it dramatic then I can say that Ohhh I did this and that and I lived in this way or that way. We were three people living in one single room. So If I want to dramatize the whole scenario then I can do it but I tell you we had a fun. Yes we 2-3-4 people used to live in a single room. I stayed at Sriram Raghvan’s house and then became PG at the house of a Gujarati family. Then I used to think that I should arrange a single room where I could live alone because it was very difficult to talk on phone. I used to attend phone calls in the hall and old Gujarati couple used to listen what I was talking. It was not possible to talk with friends in an open manner. I used to say that if I have my own independent room and where I have phone also then I can atleast say abuses to my friends. Now imagine old couple are sitting behind you and you are talking with your friends in a controlled manner.

Coming from the institute has one big advantage that it gave us a support system otherwise I had no way before me to come directly to Bombay because I did not know any one here. Every year 32 people come out of the institute. Some belong to south and some come from Kolkata. 20-25 people come to Bombay so take it this way that 20-25 people are struggling at same time so initially this happens that they all meet in the evening at some common place and people discuss what happened with everybody in the day time. We 5-6 people used to meet daily in the evening and if somebody did not get work then we used to send somebody else at that place. So we did not feel that we were alone.

AB: Institute provides a binding or ….

RH: There is a wonderful binding and one person helps other person. If that binding and help is not there then one may find it very difficult to pass the initial struggling phase.

AB: Somebody approaches you and says that he has come from Institute, will you give him work?

RH: If you have a need at that time and you find him capable then you will give him the work. This feeling is always there that he belongs to our institute and we should help him in all possible manners. I do feel a lot for the people coming from Nagpur. Leave alone Nagpur if someone says that he belongs to near by places like Vardha or Amravati then I feel that I should talk to him because I feel he is coming from my area and we share so many things.

Institute is a bit different matter because all the people coming out of FTII know the history of the past batches and which person belongs to which batch? You try to meet them.

When I came out then I also knew this history of previous batches. I went to meet David Dhawan and Ketan Mehta. Now one can not always give you work because if you have work at that time only then you can give but they guide in many ways and suggest that where one should try. I got many editing works because of this linking only. I had a desire to direct a film. I have seen that a 60 year old man also does not lose hope and he thinks that perhaps he will be able to make a film in next 2 years. Life is passing but hope goes on and on so I don’t think people lose the hope. They may get a chance to make a film or not but they cherish this desire.

So I don’t feel that I spent 16 years in waiting to make a film. Perhaps that time was destined to be spent in that manner only. If I say that we pass out in the time of Sanjay Leela Bhansali because he had come and started assisting Vinod. I met different kind of people in the beginning and if I had met with like minded people then perhaps this process of film making could have come bit early in my life. I went in to advertising and it took away few years from me. Then there is a question of survival also and one thinks to earn something otherwise one may go to many other directions to survive and then who knows when he would get a chance to enter in to film industry again?

AB: Any kind of socio-political impact on you?

RH: No. I was never interested in politics etc and there has been no impact on me.

AB: Your father had migrated from Pakistan. He kept any kind of anger or bitterness inside?

RH: No, not at all. I feel that politics is the time dependent fight. Vinod had a song,2 Ye alag cheeszon kee jang hai isme bechare admi ka kya karma” (This is the fight of other kind of things and man has nothing to do in it). I have many friends and they belong to different communities. I believe strongly in the saying that no man is bad but circumstances force him to behave differently.

AB: Any memory of first day of shooting when you said” action2 to take your very first shot?

RH: First shot was this that Rustam is going home. His father is kept as captive there and he goes upstairs and runs to see his father. This was the first shot. Then stress was to shoot as soon as possible. Vinod said,” This is the budget and film should be made in this much time”. So I did my calculation and concluded that I have to take 20 shots on a daily basis and if I don’t manage it then I can’t complete the film within the scheduled time frame. Second pressure was this that Vinod Pradhan was shooting our film. He had shot Devdas before joining my film and there he used to take one shot in a single day. So I used to put pressure on Vinod that we have to take 20 shots every day.
We started at 9AM on the first day and I said that if I finish this shot by 10 AM then only I can take 20 shots today else its not possible.

We finished first shot by 9.45 AM and I phoned to Vinod Chopra to say that we have taken the first shot.

Vinod encouraged me and said,”Very good, keep it up”.

We canned 22 shots on very first day of shooting. I sent flowers to Vinod’s home. I met Sanjay later and told him that we were taking 20 shots every day.

He said,” Its strange as we used to take that many shots in a month time”.

AB: What is that enthusiastic feeling you get when you are sitting on the chair of a director?

RH: I don’t know. I feel that you feel a responsibility at that time. A pressure is there on you. There was a pressure in my first film as it was my own film and I was responsible for every thing. Vinod does not include him at all in these things. He leaves everything on you. He gave me all the money and kept in the bank and gave me a check book that this is the budget of the film and I have to do manage everything with this money. Then its my responsibility to finish the work. If a director thinks that he has got a position of power then it’s a wrong attitude.

AB: Power of creation should be there?

RH: No then that is a stage when you live under tremendous pressure. If I don’t finish in time then what would happen? I don’t have this location. I had lost 5-7 Kg wt while making Munna bhai.

AB: Initial few days were not good for Munna Bhai MBBS. Collections were not more than 15-20% in the initial 2 days.

RH: I remember the day of its release. Assistants had come and said that we should go to watch the film but I did not go and slept.

AB: You were not worried about anything?

RH: I tell you that we showed the film to many people and nobody was ready to buy it. So many distributers came and saw the film and gave their opinion that film would not work outside of the Bombay. Bombaiyah language will not work beyond Thane region. Nobody bought it. At half of the places Vinod released it himself and he had to release it at so many places by bearing losses. When film was released he was bearing a loss of 18 Million Rupees. Vinod said,” We should not worry much and we w’d earn something out of it. We w’d earn from Video rights etc also and all the expenses will be covered in the end”. So in that process we showed the film to so many people. Distributers were not buying the film but friends were saying that film was very good.

I was happy after making the film that people would watch the film and would say that film was good. My parents, my family and my friends would watch it and would appreciate it that I made a good film. I thought it was fine if film did not work but I should have a satisfaction that I did a good work.

Film was released and I was very tired as I had not been sleeping properly since many months so I slept and one of my assistants phoned me around 1 PM and said that we should go and watch the film in a cinema hall and should see the public’s reaction. So we 5-6 people went to the Gaiety theatre. Nobody knew us at that time. I asked gatekeeper about the film and he pointed his thumb downwards. I thought what had happened with the film. I was not expecting 100% collection but I had expected that around 50% collection would be there. And gatekeeper’s thumbs down act demoralized me. When I went inside the hall then Carom board scene was running on the screen. People were laughing loudly and were jumping on their seats. They were applauding and clapping. I said,” What is this happening. Ye to sala, logon ko pasand aa rahee hai (people are liking the film)”. Then I understood that Gate keeper was indicating about Box Office collection because people were not many inside the cinema hall. Then I said,” Its just first show and people have not seen the complete film, so he is just bullshitting me”.

Then we went to other theatres. We visited Geeta theatre in Worli and then we went to Martha Mandir also. In the evening we reached to New Empire. And by that time we were able to witness a wonderful positive reaction of people in every theatre.

Boman used to live near New Empire. I called him to see the reaction. He came and started crying by seeing the public reaction. His eyes were filled with tears. It was also his first film.
I said,” People will come and watch the film”. In the evening we found out that 9 PM show was house full. Our distributer Shyam Shroff phoned me and said,” I know that some films become hit because of the phenomenon of word of mouth marketing but first time I am watching that a film can pick up so fast”.
People, who saw it in first show of 12 AM, they phoned or told in person to other people and by the time night shows were started many theatres witnessed the house full conditions.

AB: How did you feel on getting the national award?

RH: You had informed me about this. By the time national awards were declared I had become busy in other film. Popular awards came our way. Film was released in December and it started fetching awards. But initially people were confused to put the film in right category. I remember that few journalists had told me after press screening that many of them were feeling that film was good but they were unable to grade it properly. They were asking each other how to define the film. First it was a Sanjay Dutt film and above this its title, Munna Bhai MBBS, was quite unusual. So they did not get it in the begining. Was it a Bhai type film? Sanjay Dutt was sitting on the heap of 15 flop films. They were feeling that film should not be given good grades. So confusion was there in the beginning and same was true with awards also. Later we started getting praise. National award bring a very good feeling that people liked the film and appreciated it.

AB: How did you think to include Gandhi Ji’s character in Lage Raho Munna Bhai. How much faith you have in Gandhi Ji?

RH: I strongly and deeply believe in Gandhi Ji.

AB: He had an ashram in Vardha and it was quite close to Nagpur so can it be taken as a childhood impression?

RH: I did not have a deep impact of Gandhi Ji.I had seen the film Gandhi and I had liked it immensely. I always felt that he had something in him. I had read some of his books and some books on him. But this idea was not there in my mind that one day I would make a film on him. But certainly there was something in him. I felt after watching the Gandhi, the film, that there was something very special in this man. You see if there is a discussion then people say that Gandhi can not work in today’s time. He worked in a bygone era. I used to feel that Gandhi used to see things differently and he thought differently and he searched things differently and nobody could think as he thought at that time. He thought about fast. Nobody thought about it then. Perhaps its possible that today it will not work but he made it work at that time. He used to search strange ways to do something constructive. See the salt movement. He had something in him. I would say he had a way of living. I started reading after Munna Bhai MBBS. Just like that without any planning. I found some books. And I went on reading more and more and I felt that I should do something by including him.
It has become a fashion to abuse Gandhi. It has become a fashion to make Gandhi culprit for anything and everything because that shifts the focus from our own responsibilities. To accuse is the easiest thing in the world as it exonerates us from our lacking to own the responsibility. I felt that I should say something but If I say anything about Gandhi Ji then people w’d not listen. They would say,” Man he is such a bore”.
I thought that if we do something keeping focus on doctors then people get boredom but if Munna Bhai does something with doctors then people find it interesting.
I have tried to say this thing through my film that Gandhi Ji’s principles work even today and we should believe in him.
I could not have shown this in a preaching mode. I have not said anything from my side. Nothing has been said through the words. Its happening in the typical manner of Munna Bhai. Its happening in an entertaining manner. Its happening in an emotional manner. Till now I was also in a doubtful condition regarding public’s reactions. I came back yesterday after watching people’s reactions and I felt that we would be successful. Bachchan Saab is going to watch it tonight.

AB: What message would you like to give to young and ambitious directors?

RH: One should not give message as it’s one of the most dangerous things. I think people learn from their own doings and mistakes. Everybody searches his way after getting lessons from failures and hurdles. If many wants to do then there is a saying of Gandhi Ji that one should search the aim and means come to him. Search what you want to do and path will be opened to you. If you have a passion then it happens. It has happened with me. It may happen that people may call me lucky even then as far as I know it happens. I see other people also. Decide what you want to know and if you have passion and devotion then you will find that you have got the path also to go ahead.

First part of the conversation - Raju Hirani : Training is very important in film making/

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