Sell anything in Bollywood. But…
Sell anything in Bollywood. But… don’t try to hard-sell the same thing more than twice.
In management, we read a term PLC or Product Life Cycle. It meant that every product or product category has a defined life after which its public acceptance will start drooping down, diminishing. There are so many factors behind that which range from technology to public awareness, consumers’ want for more, competition, consumer intelligence and, most importantly, fatigue.
While competition is an external factor, I’d like to count consumer intelligence or want for more as an internal factor in the product itself. Meaning that the product will, over a period of time, start losing its relevance or importance to the consumer. That the consumer will start feeling bored or tired of using the same product, same experience day after day. That his requirements and expectations will increase.
We have many examples. Starting from a poor landline phone which was hard to dial, to sleek business phones and blackberry, we’ve seen the transformation in little over a decade. Our poor PC that operated on Windows with basic functions has now taken various shapes, size, range and accommodates thousand times higher capacities than what it used to be ten years back. These are all results of fast changing consumer preferences with increasing usages.
Consumers develop a fatigue if they have to experience the same or a very similar product experience over a sustained period of time. The K-serials with Saas Bahu jhamela got over us to the hilt before Star had to take it off-air. Several other new formulas are going to meet the same fate on telly – be it reality shows with much of theatrical melodrama or, the so-called serials with social messages of child marriage, female foeticide and so on.
Remember, we had enough of “kutte main tera khoon pee jaungaa” in the eighties and they had to make way for refreshing romantic flicks. We had too much of one bad guy-in-a-happy-family-spoiling everything kind typical cinema in the name of family entertainment, very much like fatigued K-serials. They made way for better family drama like Waqt, Baghbaan and so on. With their new USPs they worked. We had too much of David Dhawan-Govinda kind cinema ruling the Bollywood for a long time. They worked when Bollywood was not producing enough of good humour. So, whatever vulgarity or flimsy content it came with, it sold with a particular category of audiences for a long time. Initially all those films had a Shakti Kapoor, Laxmikant Berde or so trying to poke with the same funny acts which failed to make you laugh after some time and looked idiotic. Kadar Khan’s double-meaning dialogues also faded out gradually. Soon, a new formula was devised by Dhawan sahib around infidelity where the hero would have two wives or multiple relations and his entire life went into saving both of his marriages. The initial bit probably amused some. But, he and some more film-makers went overboard by giving us so many films that I can count at least 8-9 films made on the same plot, with good star-cast. Later ones failed big time. Interestingly, I remember at least 2-3 films each starring Govinda as well Salman, on the same plot. Then came more of infidelity a la No Entry style. Do Knot Disturb sealed the fate for many, with the same lesson.
When Priyadarshan gave us Hera Pheri, we thought a new saviour had arrived. Gadually, all his films started resembling with each other so much so that now you can predict the entire plot after hearing the first line of the story. All the climaxes resembled each other to the extent that you can take one climax and fit into almost all of his movies without affecting their result. I think, he would do better by shooting one climax with all the artistes (and crowd) showing their back while running the race. It can be safely used in all of his next films, in case he intends to continue his trend and have different artistes in different movies. Just hope that he has thought of some changes for the climax of De Dana Dan which gives a déjà vu of Hera Pheri. Priyadarshan ji, if you haven’t and you can still manage it, my humble request, please do it now.
Then Madhur Bhandarkar type of films come replete with pessimism and sadism where the director takes pleasure in watching you cry and act like a whistleblower. Man, it is good to be in the whistleblower’s shoes but, it is worse to believe that the world can only be seen in either black or white. There are shades of gray in everything. His plot is always conceptualized, designed and developed by painting things in black and white. Man, grow up. Nothing in this world comes in either only black or white. Selling pessimism for a very long time like those sundry Hindi News channels who always can be seen predicting the end of the universe on a particular date & time for umpteenth time cannot help. World would believe once, twice, thrice but, not always. Sell anything. But please do not try to hardsell anything more than twice in Bollywood anymore. That simply doesn’t work. Every profession, everything in life has a good side to it too. Had it not been so, forget other things, Bollywood would also have just been a scam, a fiasco called casting couch. But it is not. It is into serious business of making films. There are aberrations everywhere.
Surprisingly, we notice, most of the directors who started with the promise of making something different for us ended up being so different that all their respective projects started looking look-alikes. A direct lift from another earlier successful film. Sad.
To this context, I’d likes to say kudos for traditional film-makers like the Yashraj or Karan Johar’s banners which do not pompously make any promise to serve us “different” cinema but whatever they serve is generally not such a big lift from the older flick.
The recent fiasco of so many films has proved that you can sell any damn thing at least once in Bollywood with a good success, if it comes in a good and complete package. A repeat is also allowable. For that matter people may even watch the same film multiple times, if it is watchable. But, showing them the same film with another name won’t work. Similarly, re-packaging the same formula and content in the new incarnation like old wine in a new bottle won’t work anymore.
I think, I’ve got at least one of the many concrete answers for the question I asked in my previous blog http://passionforcinema.com/“who-is-to-blame”-introspections-by-a-young-movie-maker/
Must thank my readers for their contributions.
Tags: aditya chopra, Copy, david dhawan, fatigue, film life, flop, formula, hit, Karan Johar, Madhur Bhandarkar, marketing, old wine, plc, priyadarshan, product life, Ram Gopal Verma, repeat, Sequel, Yash Chopra, Yashraj
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
“movies of yash raj and Karan Johar’s banners is generally not such a big lift from the older flick” strange comment deepak as most of their movies are only recycled from their so called previous movies..
Yes Anurag, the primary reason why I have preferred to keep them little aside is that they “pompously” don’t claim to be different. They are all positioned as pure entertainers. And, yet not no-brainers. They have a genre of their own and there they are probably doing fine and that’s why they still are in the reckoning. Mostly a recycled product out of several of their last flicks, yet, they often are packaged as a different product. Surprisingly, they are. Even if with similar ingredients, if not the same.
Deepak, I love the analysis done by you of treating bollywood film as a packed consumer product. That is the true case with most of the films. People try to repeat one formula of success again and again untill they are doomed with it. Bollywood film makers try to make film like FMCG product, old content with new packing and gift offer. They are falling flat and thats good for cinema. David Dhawan is more experentive than Priyadarshan and Madhur Bhandarkar.. so he is in good business till now. You point out correctly that: “For that matter people may even watch the same film multiple times, if it is watchable. But, showing them the same film with another name won’t work. “
Many thanks Dear Yayaver. I think, with very little exceptions, almost everything subscribed by consumers can be looked as a definite product, regardless of the fact whether it is tangible or intangible. It comprises of all the product features as we read in the timeless “4P” theory of marketing. The basis for my argument, therefore, is that if you are tired or bored of using a particular brand of toothpaste for a long time, you need a change. So, what do you do? For example, if you trust in brand Colgate. You may like to switch from Colgate Gel to white Colgate or another variant of it. But, the disappointment will be very high if all the variants are essentially found to be one and same. Worse still, this case makes you decide to try some other Company/Brand and you try Pepsodent which also happens to be just the same or similar product with a new name, brand and packaging.
This is why, companies spend so much on their R&D. To keep themselves in the competition, if not ahead of it. Unfortunately, Bollywood is yet to devise a genuine R&D mechanism as a regular practice, which need not be mechanical but, yes, genuine. The moment a director is genuine to himself, the film will compulsorily be good. Therefore, it is just like using the same toothpaste on a continued basis which you are used to, instead of trying something else and having to find the same old stuff by another brand. Disgusting. As a saving grace, you can always get back to your favorite toothpaste after tasting something for a change for some time. In movies, their repeat use value is almost negligible. Continuous Innovation is a must.
hmmm…very genuine deepak… but if we talk about niche marketing we can get the answer. the genre karan johar deals with, works well for him. i think they produce their movies, direct their own stuff, record in their own studios and distribute through their own channels. thats how things are for them. When we talk about madhur bhandarkar….the reality strikes, how distorted it may be but it works. Take fashion for that matter. it worked. Though it’s just note about coke and sex in fashion but it worked because people know little about it and when it was from MR. Bhandarkar they got the answer.
its a fragmanted society, monopoly and niche marketing can be the key. Since its working for most of the people. the trends will always change and their is a need of regular updates. The life cycle of the product can be one issue when it comes to entertainment.
but a very bright post sir ji…
Equally genuine comparison between the formats, I must say. Thanks Anugam for your good words. True, every format or business model has its respective areas of strength. Things work when you get your strategies and calculations right.
A Karan Johar, a Yash Chopra, a Farah Khan or another film-maker will work for their grandeur and popcorn entertainment value in addition to the star cast, strategies, their strengths and the overall synergy. For the complete synergy value, they often have a universal appeal. So, most of their films are able to create value for the producers, investors and the stars. Within that, good ones acquire cult status. Remember DDLJ, Darr, KKHH and so many more. Yet, at times, you find a Chak De which rises out of proportion in status. A bonus.
For other film-makers, however, niche is the way to go. And, that is what is the essence of this post of mine. When you go niche, you need to get your calculations so right that you don’t get a second chance. For a Madhur Bhandarkar, I wrote words with apologies from Madhur fans, not without a reason. When you go deep inside anything, any field, any facet of life, you’ll find dark areas. Every human being has got shades of dark inside him/her. Physically and psychologically. The very basis is that he has got so much used to selling pessimism, dark areas or different walks of life – corporate, fashion, business, high-life, bureaucracy and so on. True, they are here to stay. Truer, everyone knows this. But, his genre has become so predictable is that the moment he announces a film and you know what profession or field is going to expose next. Man, we regularly watch all such stuff on TV. Intelligent and educated people know it all. And, for uneducated and powerless folks, do you need to tell them how difficult life can be in this ruthless world. Buddy, Mr. Bhandarkar created his identity as the maker of different, strong, outspoken cinema that educated people about the theme inside-out. Isn’t there a silver lining even in the starkest of our life’s facts? Why do we need to frighten any niche of our society.. to keep them under awe.. just like the sellers of Crime on TV in the name of shows? Why do we need to exploit one same formula so many times and so excessively that the larger section of the uneducated society starts disbelieving in everything over a period of time. This formula of his is already through with “cow” stage of PLC (product life cycle).
The only plea is that please use a success equation only till the point they are in “cow” stage… milkable.. and must get rid of it before it reaches the “dog” stage.. can bite big time.
every film maker somewhere gets into a mould where in he wants to further develop on the traits he had shown in his previous cinema… if you liked the darkness of some director, he tries to get darker to evolve with a product that can be stronger than what he tried… somewhere he loses the track that the audience moved to a different genre, and this has happened to the best of them … including AK, who right now is in a position that his movies will havea dynamism or a volatility in most characters… similarly with Farhan Akhtar his movies have more or less touched an average urban youth, even if they include Luck by Chance or Rock On… with right screenplays… thankfully with both of them it has been great all this while, lets see what they have to offer next….
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the benefit with YRF and Dharma and kinds is that they got established way back in time, a time when movies released with considerable gap, so the over suffocation due to one kind of movie was not as huge as it is today… and in a day when there are a 100 movies released every 90 days, and 20 of them are at least trying to work out with newer genres, they comfortably moved into producer’s role, bringing in newer directors, who may cut out flop movies, who may use the production house cliches… but still are out with a resonable newness… even if not anything, a new name behind the cameras… thats has helped them to be successful beyond SRK and Rani Mukherjee….
You are right PS. While YRF and Dharma kind of banners still enjoy the advantage which can be comparable to “first mover’s advantage” if compared to the current lot of innumerable production houses. Yet, what ceases to amaze is the way they are getting their marketing mix dissected.
Trying to graduate from “expert” to “specialist” and from “specialist” to “super specialist” doesn’t help in the long run. I remember one saying by some great person – “if the only tool you have is hammer, you start looking at every problem as a nail”.
I’m sure Indian audiences are not as insignificant as a nail; as much these film-makers have got more tools in their armory. Most of them (film-makers) need to do a reality-check. They’ve got more in them. They’re worth more. Only if they could spend little time with themselves.
Maybe if the media stops over insisting on things like “hard hitting director” and “king of romance” or “comedy ke baadshah” and the various titles it can stop getting under the film makers skin… and they feel proud or insecure about the title… hain toh woh bhi insaan hi … cant help it na…
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The lack of such constant unnecessary pressure might have made sure people like Hrishikesh Mukherjee and Basu Bhattacharya, and Yash Chopra himself, gave one new movie after another with different treatments and fresh ideas in their haydays… the typecasting was missing… and unfortunately for a film maker it looks like the inly way he tries to read his audience is through what’s printed in the papers… and if all he sees is “sensational realism from xxx grips the audience” he is going to keep rewinding that thought and working himself up…
That’s why I mentioned few things… we often fall prey to our pseudo images and perspectives. Our strategies and calculations are, in that case, more driven by the recognition of how the world looks at us, what are we expected to do, how the world will react to certain thing etc. etc. in this world. We are often under surveillance and take every step so deliberately that we make ourselves even more prone to being laughed at. It has claimed several lives. Sometimes in glaring daylight. Sometimes in dark nooks in solitude with some drugs.
At another level, when we have mastered one idea, once concept and have everyone saying wow over it; why do we need to go overboard? Like some cricketers who were lapped up by fans in their sunny days, but they try hard to be there in the middle till the same fans start burning the effigies. Why can’t we silently bid adieu to once concept and make way for another fresh one. Be it media, public attention or even the producers who also often tend to “typecast” the director, why we must grow new and fresh ideas instead of growing the same idea old enough to be abandoned by the takers. And, then, not even being able to find a small hamlet for the rugged and over-sold ideas.
Somewhere you also feel the pity for the ‘typecasted’ person… I think ever since we are kids we will always find one set which will be called as the ‘brilliant kid’.. the topper, and generally that kid will keep hearing it so much that a lot of them (and I mean a lot of them, not all…) stop attempting to do something more than studying… cuz they want to keep hearing that ‘brilliant” word … to a point that if somebody does score more than them, then that kid gets into a deeper mode…. maybe thats one of the other reason why its said not to put too much of expectations on a kid…..
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Even Star kids are going under the same rule, that they are already tagged with names and things, that they stick to a formula… which is generally a confused version of their parent’s way of acting or follow what all the other star kids did … flashy movie, love story, music hit gaana, college and the cliches… maybe thats why outsiders and children of lesser famous actors (maybe Hrithik alone) got a more share of success cuz they werent carrying any Step 1 Step 2 formulae… Ranbir Kapoor wisely has made sure to stay away from a lot of regular PR activities… which includes not talking ever about women… that in itself garners a little more curiosity towards him, and then follows it up with movies, which might have been similar to what we have seen already, but the promotions have been totally different…
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The same might be applied with once established producers and other people in film making .. at times the typecasting becomes their source of satisfaction… and a perfect example of what you are calling out… success of freshness… would be Aamir Khan… he stayed away long enough from the media to have been away from titles for a long time… and he did do a lot of cliched roles for a long time, including the hardcore inspector rathod…. but he was suddenly seen in a new light post Lagaan and DCH, both of which came at the same time …following which Aamir has made sure that he has something fresh, he makes sure his it starts from his look.. (before Lagaan and DCH you wouldnt have seen him in any new get ups) and would make sure he is noticed (again he says he doesnt talk to media but used them differently) … and from there on everything, right from the gossip, to the publicity and the maketing efforts are new as compared to what would currently be going on …. and the success that he has seen from the time he started doing this, has been phenomenal… he is decent actor (and this is my view, not challenging anybody….) but is lauded as the best we have… his movies were never so talked about when the actors are supposed to be in their primes (28-38).. his past movies are getting re discovered… and all he is doing is just presenting himself freshly everytime…
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without saying a comparison will come to mind, so we have SRK, who did all these things that Aamir is doing in terms of hatke..at the beginning of his career, new roles, challenging media interviews, ads at a time that nobody else did, suddenly get into a newer looks with passing years… somewhere at point got into the world of pythogoras and stuck to a formula (be it the same the farah khan choreography, or similar songs or similar screenplays) … and now is almost at a saturation point of things… funny how he still did not realise that Swades and Chak de… both of which may not be his best performances… both them required a restrained acting, but not very challenging performances got him accolades like hell, just cause they were away from what he has been giving all this while…. and with the same myopia, he even did Billoo Barber… where he was never needed… but the idea that his presence will boosten the movie..
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A success factor for even RGV was that he has something new to offer always.. that not only benefitted him but also his artisites, right from Saif Ali Khan and Fardeen Khan to Ajay Devgan and Abhishek Bachchan…. it was when these guys starting getting into the FIFO mode as you mentioned… they started to go down …..
A great analysis Dear PS. I must say. Looking forward to some more comments on your comment and will again have my say
Hey thanks again Deepak … sorry had to cut off in the middle.. had to attend some issues… lekin some more popular examples of what you have in the post can be AB himself… what was so bad in 1990s that suddenly changed in 2000s….(I am unfit to talk about his socieital popularity in 70s and 80s, was way too young) the very man who was supposed to be unfit for bollywood with lal baadshah and Kohram, suddenly was the new rediscovered Pied Piper… what changed?…. the very difference started that AB got himself a new look… never was a 60+ man suddenly so re discovered in India… it looked gave out the signals that even at 60 the man was interested in looking good (some pictures suggest even a hair line treatment) … he readily came over to television… in an all dignified manner… and then his pop to movies.. never was a 60+ man seen in Indian cinema like this, who was stylish yet was ready to jump hop do everything that the current crop of heros were doing, additionally in a world where most prominent film fraternity people (men and women) chose the SRK made famous way of flambouyant, carefree flirtish charming interviews with media, while AB wisely chose to be all dignified, silent approach, once again even staying dignified when spoken about the women in his life.. (the most famous q for media always), for someone whose continous acts of dharti maa ke lal even in Bade Miyan Chote miyan was given a cold shoulder… was suddenly touted up for maybe his most boring performances in Mohabattein and K3G, about which even he seems to stay mum.. all within 2 years… followinly his choice of movies started varying.. the genres of his roles varied, and of course the man has his talent giving so much more than what he had given in past roles… what changed… nothing he just started giving a fresh image…
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the above mentioned example is true with even others like Saif Ali Khan, Ajay Devgan, and Akshay Kumar… from the their sterotypes when they moved into a fresher option (be is SAK with his freshness in Biwi #1, HSSH and then the pinnacle DCH followed by Ek haseena thi, LKLKBK or AD with Qayamat, Ganagajal, Bhoot… or Akshay Kumar Shedding the 90s ka istar look to a fresh look)… and then again with time when they havent revamped themseleves they ve started to see their not so successful days again….
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A change is always needed… n that can be proven even within the limitations of tried and tested formulae movies, and the best example being when people were continuously smothered with family dramas and rom coms specially with top stars, a sudden change towards another wholesome out and out garbage masala in the forms of Ghajini and Wanted was lapped up … Superhits… while Aamir continued to choose the ‘difference’ in his roles, salman could see what has happened to his pre selected cliched movies like MAMK and London Dreams… another interesting thing is how much media has shown Salman in a negative light… one of the very important factors for his immense popularity is this media image… he is loved for his negativness, and the galti sabse hoti hai look and the curtness to the probing media which made him hatke as compared to all the other media friendly or intelligent or dignified media appearences that the other stars gave….
Hopefully these are some popular examples of what you have tried to convey….
and yup… hats off to that hammer saying… very true in everybody’s context… maybe that can be an answer to all the questions people have been raising about the critics ratings of movies… at times when the nail looks bigger than the hammer that they have they might lament extraordinary praises, but otherwise almost nothing satisfies …
Hammer saying… wish that originally belonged to me. But, yes, this has so much of relevance to the subject and the entire context.
Very aptly, you took it to the next level by bringing the reviewers and critiques under the same scanner so suitably. Kudos!!!
Thank you sire… when you made that statement my first thought was actually my boss
Most of our wittiest and ironical statements always remind us of our seniors and bosses.
long live bosses, they make sure that we will always remember such sayings quotes and limericks…
Brilliant sir ji….Kya baat hai….strategies are the key and the milking cow thing is well said.
but somewhere in the middle we need to think what we have made ourselves…
This is one output driven society.
or for that matter every society is output driven….i can see when someone discovered fire, he must have developed some sort of brand image…then the fire broke out and we saw some of the most beautiful things on the planet…including bombing on hero shima and nagasaki…
that’s how we are….
if we talk about the trp system we will see that colours are leading their way with big boss….why are we so interested in that…coz we get to see soft and matured and decent fights….coz we need fun in life….coz we are addicts now.
yes its true….
the evolution process….lifecycle will always move towards the final end. Saturation. Double deep depressions on the charts.
this is the same reason why David dhawan is not making Cooli No 1.
but there is always a way out.
people are getting enlightened when they get burnt…they need to touch that fire to understand the fire of fire.(oooh poetic :P)
the strategies are the key. Very rightly said sir…..
strategies worked for A wednesday too!!!
thats how it is.
but still the questions which haunts me is why are we still struggling…there is a need of nation and worldwide awakening.
Where, we can see appreciation of art and where people can get a way to life. the high standards and hypocrisy ruined it all…why netaji needs a really long car…why cant there be more dandi march against corruption….Vidhu Vinod Chopra/Raju Hirani gave a way out to some extent….Gandhi Giri!! yes !!
then the cultural imperialism and the brand thirst. the identity thirst. youth wants to talk about Bob Marley and Jim Morrison without even knowing their ideology. They want to be cool and thinks that talking about Hariprasad Chaurasiya can be dangerous as it may switch the hot chick off… :D
Dev D proved it, Gulal Proved it, Welcome to Sajjan Pur did it, Sankat city Did it…..but still the box office is a calculation based on metros where the people don’t even know their existence… they think that having something like diet coke can make them feel better. they are talking about Slumdog Millianoir, exception cinema. oscars….
And its not their fault. The value system in the society is a very complex system giving birth to physical, social, mental/psychological and worldly crimes.
Amalgamation of truth and entertainment can be one more thing. but even then truth is not truth even for my girlfriend. :D
Someone said there is a difference between the truth and the relative truth. We live inside the shell made up of relative truth.
But I am liking your thoughts and vision and highly rank this post.
good job done Deepak Ji.
regards,
Anugam…
Great, you’ve assimilated both the perspectives on this post in your comment – from the viewers’ viewpoint as well the film-making fraternity’s. From viewers’ perspective, what they need is constant flow of good cinema, and new, fresh ideas – truthful to themselves. From every director, they gradually develop certain amount of expectations. With vintage directors who have been known for certain kind of entertainers, they have a different set of expectations and that has somehow worked till now as in the case of banners like YRF, Dharma etc.
But, giving his due credit to RGV, who happened to be a new trend-setter and so many more directors following in, it heralded an altogether new process.
While the directors started giving us good, great and bad cinema – all with some USP, our need and want from them kept increasing. At the same time, they recognized their public rating and popularity scale. They knew the worth of their “product” and knew it could be sold even further. With part re-innovation, part re-packaging. That is how a “Satya” is followed by “Company”, a “Company” by “D” and “Sarrkar” by “Sarrkar Raj” and so on. This is what you call “milking” the cow till the point it has the last bit, last drop in her. Once ripped off of the complete milk, she (the product) becomes a dog which will bark, bite and create noise if you were to try milking it any further.
So, while embarking upon film-making, you have two sides to it – 1.Creative, 2.Economics. Every great creative idea has its own economics – from strategy to marketing, promotion, packaging and the overall positioning. Every genuine creative idea has the potential of “cow” embedded in it, provided you are able to know your market. For, there are very few products with a universal market. So, when marketers can’t create more products for the same market, they create different communication (read positioning). That is why you also notice a different TVC (ad) for the same product when you switch on Doordarshan. Every market has its own dynamics and intelligence. So has the idea its “output” potential. Like you mentioned the case of fire. The same fire which looks beautiful and makes our life possible, can swallow everything when we start playing too much with it. Use the fire for lighting, fuel, food, heat… anything. But, don’t let it get over you. It can swallow almost anything.
There are so many more examples. A Wednesday worked. So did Khosla Ka Ghosla, Aamir and so many more films which were essentially good product and kept the cost low. But, they cannot work if repeated for umpteenth time. In contrast, a SRK starrer big-budget pure romance may work time and again with little tweaking in the overall product composition. Because, romance, love and soft emotions are timeless and can always work if packaged in accordance with the mood of the moment. A genuine Laila Majnu kind of story, made in today’s context and with dynamic tweaking may still work. Paradoxically, a Sholay may not even if it happens to be an all-time great. Such is the strength of ideas. Every idea has its own shelf-life. And, the right idea at the right time can change lives. Coining the same idea for a very long time results in what we call cliche. Cliches do not work. So, I again wish to reaffirm that when I talk of output, that is purely from the producer and film-marketer’s point of view.
Ironically, Bollywood hasn’t produced any larger-than-life character like James Bond, Superman, He-Man, Spiderman or so on. We had the potential in Munnabhai or Kkrish of becoming few of such phenomena. Alas! But, that takes a lot more than just making a cult film. To create a formula like that, it takes a lot. A lot of fundamentals and going to basics. We can only wish and hope our film-makers worked on that aspect. At least these characters had little more to be exploited.
But, see Rajkumar Hirani gave Munnabhai a break when it was sellable to the hilt and moved to another format. Saving the audiences from Munnabhai overexposure in a row. You never know, if he hits you back with another Munnabhai flick after another year or two and, this overexposure and fatigue factors will be automatically taken care of. That’s how lasting characters, formulas and ideas are created and sold, if you must.
Many thanks Anugam, for liking this post and making it more valuable.
jus wanted to add a comment when we talk of James Bond vs Krisshh…. it also needs strong production houses to take such risks… in hollywood, these characters have generally been played by not the top stars, but by actors who were seen with the reqd potential or absolute new comers who were made into stars… and they stuck to their roles in sequels prequels wherever… on the other hand in India we try to make such movies with popular actors which on a very first count takes away a lot novelty from the “superhero” being shown… and then we will also remain unsure if the actor will act in a sequel as well…. maybe 1 or 2 sequels can make sure that the franchise can see some popularity, as it happened with Munnabhai, we will wait and see what happens to Drona 2 (that they are planning)… because all we have to wait for is for audience to finally start accepting these characters… SRK in Ra1… the media effect has already taken away the soul of Ra1 by continuously talking of SRK, lets wait and watch this one as well, and see what is the outcome…
Absolutely… can’t be truer. For creating superheroes.. larger than life icons, what we need to understand is that the character has to be independent of any star-shadow for that matter. The best way, therefore, is to position the character supreme with the actor as a subset of the character. As you pointed out, the strategy has to be to position a new character in larger-than-life media management, with the role being played by an actor (not star) to be launched/re-launched with the character. Then, keep continuous work on R&D for the development and journey of the character. Actor may change with time. That’s how James Bond or a Harry Potter will outlive its actors and stars. The character lives on. For that matter, Jai and Veeru could also have become a cult, if they were later looked upon and positioned independently of Amitabh Bachchan and Dharmendra.
I suggest, the way many cartoon characters like Tom & Jerry are cooked in the minds of different whizkids globally and then come to the table to be produced by the producer; this democratic and more engaging methodology can help us create some such characters and super-heroes of which we won’t feel fatigued. Tying them to the same backdrop and star-cast will make it fatigued. In Munnabhai-2, Raju did well to introduce an element of novelty in the face of actress. These are important things.
Hey Deepak,
Ofcourse Jai and Veeru were looked upon last year….independent of both Amitabh and Dharmendra –
Do you recall an iconic movie called Jai Veeru featuring Fardeen Khan and Kunal Khemu in the title roles??
Also, i need not mention Ajay Devgn and Prashant Raj in yet another legendary movie RGV ki Aag.
Frankly, at times, I feel otherwise – Let some iconic characters remain AS-IS – firmly and beautifully etched in our memories for the stars that played it so soulfully.
Ofcourse, this topic is highly debatable and has historically worked both ways. An SRK playing Don was considered to be too ambitious all along. Infact, even weeks after the movie’s release, people kept comparing SRK’s Don to Big B’s Don and labeling it as a tame attempt.
But then steadily, the audience started looking into the inherent merits of the new Don and it clicked! Not just in theatres, but even afterwards in its Satellite runs. The original ‘Main hoon Don’ title track was a blast! But, the ultra-sleek new ‘Main hoon Don’ track is a bona-fide chartbuster in itself. Not a carbon copy or a crazy remix – but a genuine, ever-green hit! Today SRK’s Don is an equally big brand, the Don of the new generation….and hence Farhan Akhtar has rightfully decided to extend this enterprise by going for Don 2. And the sequel would be completely independent of the Old Don. The only benchmark – its own predecessor.
So the argument, more like the Coffee-Toffee one, continues. Should legendary characters be kept alive through its movie series? Yes, no, Maybe….
Deepak – as indicated earlier, no set-formulae for creating magical movies. Go ahead, bend the rules.
Yes, that’s what this post is all about. No formula. Bend rules, break rules and change rules
Hey Himanshu.. mate.. so glad to see you here. Was sort of missing your comments yet
Buddy, this point of creating superheroes and iconic characters came to the fore in the course of comments as sort of one exception to the core of this post. However, within the theme of superheroes too, we are discussing, how a superhero can be built and helped to live through the ages. The examples you’ve cited are well-said examples straight from the set of DON’Ts. That’s why we said earlier that it is a different thing to create a superhero from scratch. It is easier to do it that way, though you run some risks. But, if well-done, the superhero can be an everlasting property like James Bond, Spiderman, Harry Potter or a Tom&Jerry. But, when you suddenly realize to have created some iconic superheroes like Kkrish, Munnabhai and Jai-Veeru, the challenges increase. And, it is always better to not to embark upon something rather than doing it poorly and making the characters laughing stock as it happened in most of the cases you cited.
But, when you do it beautifully and go by your guts, you do the Don. Kudos to Farhan, SRK and the entire team. Your analysis of the new Don is just too good.
And, finally, you may like to refer to my previous comment referring to why and how Amitabh did it.
So, if we have to talk about any formula as such, the best formula is to have no formula. That is why the title of this post. A formula will work once. At best, twice. Certainly not any further. Don’t you agree
regarding characters if they should be left as is… it depends completely on how a movie is made…. when recreating character you better have to have a good movie in place… Don by FA made sure it was a well made movie… even in case the movie did not have a twist to the climax the film would have worked… in case Jai Veeru, and Aag, both which were simply trying to try getting an audience relating to these characters, but in noways were they good products…. even if G.P Sippy’s Sholay was not ever made, even then these movies would have flopped, let alone trying to garner audience through such gimmicks…. any remake has to be carefully crafted and a well made movie… and the success will be seen, just an example can be “wanted” … masala… well made… all right ingrediants, proper marketing.. boom we got a hit….
Hey PS, could you pl refer to another argument presented by me on the relevance of relative successes and everlasting ones? That probably explains it to some extent. There are some characters and films which were intrinsically designed and equipped to emerge winners. Others just won because there was no other suitable contender and a lame horse won.
sir yes sir
I think it will be more than enough if we can think about making a massage more approachable, sane and salable.
regards,
anugam
Massage? I never knew we had all those parameters to evaluate a simple massage – Sane, Approachable and Saleable?? Tricky
Himanshu u can get a Sane, Saleable massage in Thailand.
Hey Himanshu & Ratnakar, Anugam meant “message” and it was a typing error…
A good article. Thankfully Raj Kumar Hirani shifted away from his Munnabhai space.
Hey Gaurav. Thanks. Pl refer to my reply to Anugam’s comment. Have already made a clear mention of Rajkumar Hirani giving the audiences a break from Munnabhai and trying another format for a while. Maybe, he can again come with another Munnabhai classic after a break of 1-2 films and, strategically sustain the Munnabhai “property” in “cow” stage with this way.
@PS: The answer to your quest about how the Big B, Saif Khan, Akshay Kumar or Aamir Khan could suddenly have the entire nation following them, is hidden somewhere in your own argument.
As we’ve been discussing, when do we need a change? A rational and relieving change never comes without a milieu.
Amitabh had come of age, doing all sort of angry young man and melodramatic roles. In between, he did some forgettable roles that he would never like to refer back to. Usual. But, coming of age, both in terms of his own physical age and increasing consumer fatigue, consumer intelligence and gradually growing awareness led to a vacuum. If you remember the entire decade of eighties, you’ll find that was probably one darkest period of Bollywood with the least number of films worth remembering, compared to any other decade. Amitabh’s temporary debacle was also partly caused by that. Then, most importantly, he was like an “Alice in Wonderland”… sort of “no man’s land”. He was not young enough to play the hide & seek with heroines, as was usual till that time with Hindi cinema. Nor could his fans or even he himself tolerate to see Amitabh Bachchan as a grown-up old man. So, that was sort of what everyone faces in life at least thrice. At adolescence, youth to mid-age and, mid-age to old-age. You don’t belong to either of your coinciding age-groups. You are confused and pained at the thought of belonging to nowhere. You feel rebellious for the world appears not to be realizing your situation. The world thinks you’re confused like everybody at that stage is. Happily or with a pinch of salt, you’ve to go through that transition. Big B tried his hands at several things in that phase of crises. He was already mistaken and found little takers for whatever new or good he tried.
Interestingly, not all change can be refreshing, appreciable and lasting. The change has to be one like orbit-shifting.. A change is good to see and feel, takes you by surprise, challenges to change the rules of the game and often makes you wonder that – “wow, it was so easier, could have been done earlier, how couldn’t we think of it before” – those changes I’ll term as orbit-shifting… And, its all about how often you create such orbit-shifting changes… only for others to say “wow”.
Hey Deepak, thanks for taking the time out again to respond… completely in awe of you taking time to respond to each post man with ideas and concepts galore…. … keep up the Spirit …
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regarding AB Ajay Saif… I have no questions, I was actually trying to show them up as another set of popular example of what your post suggests… as to how a change is needed… in any forms…. and that alone can give you a lot momentum….
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Regarding a few thoughts that you have put up, my idea is little different… 80s is considered to be decade of oblivion not just because movies that were made were trashes, but majorly because 80s was the period when for the first time aging superstars in all of the film world were pushing hard to keep up with the upcoming stars… it was the years when the top actors of previous decades were pushing to fit into the pants that Mithun and gang had brought in … which made sure that 80s look real tacky …. Rajesh Khanna to AB to Jeetendra, every actor had aged but were trying their luck to compete with Sanjay Dutt… it looked more like “disco is what you like, here I can do Disco as well” which fell flat on its face…the number of stars in 60s and 70s had increased manifold times compared to the years before and most of them continued to be acting and not get into directing and producing… and 80s was the decade where we suddenly had a huge chunk of these stars pushing theirselves in, they still wanted to be in popular roles, either of that current day or hashes of their older hits, but nothing new…. once they did finally accept their ages and refrained from being ‘pop stars’ any more they were more or less accepted back, but that left 80s with a pretty bad image… where the stars of 80s were more or less seen more like “temperories”… to be honest I think Kishore Kumar and RDB were the only ones who held their positions in 80s, though a lot of new voices and music also started getting appriciated at the same time…
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Regarding AB… he was definately a part of the lot where aging caught up, and even today he’s decline during those stages is spoken more only cause he was the supreme amongst them all, he was still the biggest star that was visible, however he made his wrong choices as well…. he didnt wish to make that difference… and it happens, when a common person cannot make it, a person of AB’s strature would have had a lot more insecurities cause he had so much more to lose… similar to what SRK is going through today… but that being said, his choice of sticking to the masala that he had been giving all the while turned bad on him… but even as a producer with a list of directors ready for him, he did not try making something new or carving storylines that could fit him in… the hollywood was still there and the movies were being copied into bollywood but a lot of concepts were still not getting tried in … the choice of getting stories written with him in mind playing a young character kept backfiring, while he chose to see away from the writing on the wall… even his own collagues had started talking, a famous line being – “Amitji is learning to change nappies; next he will be romancing Baby Guddu on screen.” which was said by one of his ex colleagues… (Which he almost proved right with an awesomeness when he acted in Nishabd… sure that this actress might have eaten her words) …
To say that “Nor could his fans or even he himself tolerate to see Amitabh Bachchan as a grown-up old man.” wouldn’t be totally correct…. rather people wanted to see him play his age…. his hits during the decline phases all of them show that his movies were still being superhits when he readily played his age, even for a part of the movie… be it Hum, Khuda Gawah or even the one song hit Major Saab, Suryavamsham’s role as the old man also continues to evade hoots, for that matter a grey haired Shehanshah also stays somewhere away from being considered as his very bad movie… as I had mentioned earlier about SRK not realising what Chak De and Swades indicates for him, AB also failed to understand this pattern for a long time..
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The Deal is when we have superstars.. the ones whom we absolutely look upto in awe… with passing time, we expect them to play other different bigger roles, that are going to be lapped up even if they can be bad…. when the whole world is trying to do this superstar we would like to see them allow the newbies to replicate what they ve already done while at their position show who the real baap is with roles or movies or their styles…. the only exception in this case has been Rajinikanth with his Sivaji being his all time grosser while he still behaved more like he is in the leagues of the younger stars, personally I kept vying that somewhere he will stop comparing himself with the new ones… somewhere we want to see these people play their age which automatically shows on an elevated platform and that in itself is the Change that we saw when Big B started playing his age… when he finally represented his own famous line “Rishte mei hum sab ke baap lagte hain” … similarly Rajinikanth I guess is still more popular in his movie padayappa where over a part he plays an man of his age…. SRK as the coach in Chak De, we want to see these folks start playing their age and show why they were the champs in their fields… with Aks AB started to rave reviews and since then there has been no looking back… along with a lot of things when AB finally agreed there was the change which is happening, whole heartedly accepted it and evovled it into a new look altogether… there was nothing that could stop him anymore…. not even the fact that his son is of an age where he is trying to make his own career in the same field… how many times will you find a father much more active than a son who was ready to be crowned for a long time….
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Over a period if the change is adapted, then the shelf life does increase manifold times…. just the way you have mentioned AB as beyond hits and flops, similar examples would be Sanjay Dutt, and even Jackie Shroff and upcoming being Salman Khan … at a stage where in they just started doing their own thing, hits and flops are out of question for them now….
A beautiful peep inside the decade of 80s with an “anthropological” analysis. Simply awesome. Would also like to add some more inputs. Shall return to do that. But, I couldn’t agree any better.
I’d like to add that it was just not the actors who were going through an identity crisis but, it was largely true of the entire fraternity, save for some. A golden era that had dawned with the beginning of seventies – films had become more colourful, more melodramatic, filled with action, more hummable music & songs and reaching a much larger number of viewers than ever before – that era was just in for transition. The bigger stars of the previous decades from the last rage of Amitabh to Rajesh Khanna, Vinod Khanna, Shashi Kapoor and even vintage actors were all fading. It can rather be seen as a twilight phase. You don’t know whether to mourn the end of the day or indulge in the party for the arrival of the night. The directors and writers had seen and written it all and had realized what was a big puller in the seventies was inadequate to draw the masses. In desperate or deliberate attempts they gave us many movies. Some worked. Rest bombed. They didn’t know what was working and what not. Because, they for sure knew the earlier bigger stars would not work. Yet, the industry was not producing newer stars. They often went for multi-starrers with an amalgamation of new faces with the older stars. Ironically, you can see a pattern in the majority of the films – mostly either based on the concept of revenge or a very cliched family melodrama. They often failed but some big multi-starrers like Karma worked. More people followed with similar packaging and doomed.
But, if you notice, you’ll see the viewers wanted change. Some of the best known movies of those times were solo movies, often with soulful music and based around (rebellious) romance. The age of angry-young-man-out-for-revenge was probably gone. But, the rebellion was still in the air. And, romance, for that matter, is often rebellious only
So, on the one hand , we have musical and romantic flicks like Hero, Betaab, ending with QSQT and Maine Pyar Kiya; on the other hand we had Arjun, Ankush and Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro that drew pubic attention and acclaim even if not money.
It was a transitory phase, sort of confused, of its own identity, needs and crises of the stars. New stars were mostly presented in the shadow of the stars of the yesteryears and we saw the likes of Shatrughan Sinha, Dharmendra, Mithun and even Amitabh accompanying them with big-brotherly positioning. Neither the older stars nor the newer actors could leave an impact.
At the same time, you see refreshing actors like Anil Kapoor and Rishi Kapoor had it going strong for them, within their own rights. Even a dud like Ram Teri Ganga Maili was a massive hit, though for many more of wrong reasons. But, a hit is a hit and we cannot deny a hit its merit
The milieu for change had arrived. The ones like Yash Chopra, Subhash Ghai and some more who capitalized on it, had the first movers’ advantage.
In that decade, Amitabh Bachchan in films like Toofan, Jaadugar and Ajooba – was that a formula, cliche, copy or experiment?
Pranshu, those film by Amitabh Bachchan like Toofan, Ajooba and Jaadugar belonged to the darke age of the 80s as it was. They tried to experiement with the formula of the same age. The larger formula of the age was the same bad guy and larger-than-life villain who happened to be antisocial and the hero used to be the saviour of humanity and society. The experiement was a cliched lift of the elements of witchcraft, black magic and magic used by either or both of the hero and the villain. They fell flat as they had nothing fresh to offer, including the star who was a fading star and such roles actually were fickle for the standing and popularity he commanded.
And when Amitabh Bachchan took on the challenge of making orbit-shifting changes, you see, he still rules the Bollywood – hits or flop don’t matter. Age, no bar. Gender, irrelevant. At 67, the man is an icon for 4 simultaneous generations. My kid is 2 and gets a gleem in his eyes at every sight of him on telly. Thankfully, he’s still always on, on so many channels – through ads, TVCs, promos, telly-shows, awards and so on. And yet, if we are not yet fatigued of him anymore, full marks to him.
I am honestly quite fatigued, and this from a hard core Big B fan right from my childhood days. But seeing him everywhere on TV, selling Chocolates, Pens, Dabur, Babur is a classic case of overkill.
Yes Ratnakar, this is happening to us all who’ve seen this happening for years. My kid has, however, just started recognizing him and it’s been a month or two. Let him get fatigued and he’ll cry “caaaartooooon” at his sight someday soon. It is some time for him to get fatigued. His age, just 2 yrs and a month yet
Deepak – Perfectly in sync with your thoughts, analysis and insights.
You make tons of sense young movie maker…why don’t you take up movie reviews? I am sure, your reviews would be much more sensible and relevant – and hence much more read, taken seriously and appreciated (than ofcourse, the sadist and more style-less substance reviews of Khalid or Raja Sen).
What say buddy?
Heyyy… hope some guys are listening and come up offering me some space to write in their newspapers, magazines… hehe
Man, never ever seriously thought of this. Just write on the basis of my own experiences and perceptions which may or may not make sense, at times. Beginning with a bad start on this forum, I am happy, that my posts are being read and appreciated too. Am happy that within whatever fraternity might be reading posts and articles here, I’m able to make some sense to them, regardless of the number of readers. Would seriously love to be writing more and being read more. But, maybe there has to be a right time for that. I’m still learning and, you and all the friends have contributed so much to it. Thank you so very much
the positioning thing is also very well said. was thinking about the plc and the positioning in terms of the age or the time duration of the cycle. there are products that are still working well…as they maintain their quality.
so i think the quality control is also something to look upon.
this is generic in terms of film making coz of rapid change in the system we live in.
woooh the post is going strong…
the R&D thingi is happening and making huge huge change.
i read that RDB came after some 5-6 years of research(correct me if m wrong)…it worked.
but delhi6..phew…. the story was brilliant the thought was good…star cast was also good but somewhere the execution and the promotion made it sour.
how about the promotion.??
when we talk about the positioning, target audience and niche market, what about promo’s in that.
and yeah…farhan akhtar can be one such good case study for that matter.
everything worked. the box office said it all… rock on!! such a commercial hit. they never spoke about page & plant and morrison but made it a rock film according to most of the people. that’s the strategy i think.
if someone can get Mohan Rakesh onto such strategy, i feel the scenario will change.
I saw Lock Stock & two smoking barrels…damn…people lifted some scenes from the movie…rather than understanding the concept of narration and a strong screenplay…
deepak ji, i would love to read some case studies for this. if we can get that. that can somewhere sort me out. where we can get some live examples of the brand aesthetics and commercial notes.
I think anurag Ji, Vishal Bharadwaj, Saurabh shukla, Rajat Kapoor, Farhan Akhtar, Shyam ji and many more can be very good case studies in the present scenario. Guide guide guide!!!!
regards,
anugam
Lagaan wud be the best case study, Ashutosh, picked up the basic idea of Escape to Victory, victims playing a match against their tormentors, with the deal being the winner gets freedom. In Escape to Victory, it was Allied Pow vs Nazis, and a football match. Ashutosh deftly adapted this to Indian conditions, using cricket, and the deal being 3 years of tax being waived away. Add to it the standard Indian movie staples of song n dance, but where AG succeeded in Lagaan, was that the songs blended with the narrative, they did not disrupt the flow of the movie.
Films, as much as in the way they are made are not as much a technical product from a Director’s POV, as they are from the Producer’s perspective. There is where film-makers probably need to fill some gap. Making a film, in terms of the storyline, creativity, cast and all is a very different ball game. A producer, however, needs to play little more proactive role than just finding the right team, creative crew vs cast combination and, economics. The producers need to rise above the normal mathematics of making and releasing a film, as is happening in many cases. A well-made film somehow succeeds despite its low key run at box office, if so. So, what we really need is a better synergy between the producer and the director. A producer has to rise above from being just a management, marketing and finance guy – playing either or all of these roles. The day it happens, we’ll see more of Lagaans, RDBs and APKGK.
“. Should legendary characters be kept alive through its movie series? Yes, no, Maybe….”
Depends on how you approach it. Lemme take example of 3 superhero characters i grew up with.
Superman- Not my favorite superhero, but the first movie version starring Christopher Reeve was one of the best, with fab music by John Williams. The franchise later ran out of steam. Bryan Singer tried to bring it back with Superman Returns, but the movie was more of a love story than a superhero flick, the only thing missing were duets.
Batman- Now this is an interesting one. Tim Burton did a great job with Batman and Batman Returns, sticking to it’s dark nature, creating interesting villians with The Joker(Jack Nicholson). Schumacher made a mockery out of this with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. And it was left to Christopher Nolan, to bring the series back in style with Batman Begins, and then with The Dark Knight.
Spiderman- Sam Raimi again was faithful to the comic book, focussing well on Spidey’s internal struggle, as well as the bad guys Dafoe in Spidey 1, and Molina in Spidey 2. Spidey 3 was however a freaking mess, looked more like a Bollywood flick, what with all those love triangles, surfeit of Bad guys, and then too many plot detours.
The answer to this question can be best answered by Sunil Gavaskar!!!
You may wonder how come Mr. Sunil Gavaskar figures in here. I mean you need to draw a line whether you need to exploit the full potential of your hero or, you want to call it quits when still at the top. Quitting while still at the top, you have the advantage of being remembered and going to books as a ruling star. But, as some would agree, memories are one thing, one should exploit the full potential of earning out of your current positioning. On the other hand, you also run the risk of losing reputation and facing condemnation, and made to call it a day if the downfall happens. Sunil Gavaskar left people craving for more and his fans still think that maybe he could have played little more. Maybe he could have scored little more, the genius he was. And, he was in fine touch till his last game. On the other side, we have had many great cricketers of their time who went to ignominy and had an unceremonious retirement…. almost forced, after a string of bad performances toward the end of your career.
So, as the masters of your own product, you need to take a call whether you can carry it in its current vigour through more successes. And, trust me, whether you think you can or can’t, you are right.
So, long live Munnabhai, Kkrish and Jai-Veeru – in memories or re-living time and again on celluloid. But, a coffin with good memories will be much preferable than a bad reincarnation.
and while talking of Sunil gavaskar we also have cricketers who went beyond the area what they were famous for.. their strengths…. into unknown territory cause theu believed the fame was theirs and not their professions… Ajay Jadeja and Vinod Kambli… only to get their har worked name going for a toss…
Yes… that’s why we always need to make a choice in life… whether we want to go overboard .. to the hilt and extract the maximum… or, should we leave some room for people asking for more. Good for them, though. At least they can’t complaint to themselves that they had it in them and did not try. And, yet, not making a laughing stock out of them. They thought they had it in them and they at least tried. They could afford and they did. Much better than a lot of us who have nothing to lose, nothing as much at stake as they had. And yet, the ones of us who do not try things in life. They also had their entire prestige and fan-following at stake. They lost it. But, I’m sure they must be happier lot. But, yes, it is a different thing to try because of your conviction that you have it in you. And, to try because you take it for granted.
Right now its like the Dot Com Boom before it went bust. Amazon succeeded with it’s online Selling Model, and you had every one trying to sell things online, VC’s paid insane amounts of money to Dot Com’s which practically had no real value, Guys who knew how to spell “J-A-V-A” were paid mind boggling salaries. And the rest as they say is History.
Its the same happening right now, Movies are made on a budget of millions, and it beats me where that money comes from even in a recession period. Actors who can’t perform to save their arse, get paid huge amounts. You can pump in all the money available, but when you are investing on Duds, you end up with Duds.
The boom you are referring to – whether the dot.com boom or the moviedom boom – are a constant Indian phenomenon. Remember Ratnakar, someone rightly said that India is a country comprising of the most of its population believing in the herd and flock mentality. Few good people taste success after their sheer hardwork, persistence and years of resilience. They walk further and a room is created in this huge market for many more to follow. The first ones who tasted success after years of work always have the first-mover advantage. The early followers too happen to taste the “early bird get worms” phenomenon. But, the rot starts when too many mediocre people in the quest of easy money just venture into any such thing which is “in” at any given point of time. It has happened to so many sectors and more harmed them than benefited. But, can’t help it much. It happened to dot.com. Prior to that, it had happened to so many other sectors. Recently, you every Tom, Dick & Harry venturing into Real Estate sector which first caused huge inflation and then brought the sector crashing down. The film industry is probably also in for this. But, this being not-so-easy ballgame, the losses won’t be too severe, nor too lasting. Hopefully.
Well difference is that other sectors learn from the Bust, companies learnt from the Dot Com Bust, and made amends. Enron, World Com bought in the Sarbannes-Oaxley act, and i guess the recent Sub Prime fiasco, would lead to a better regulation in the banking, financial sector. Sadly Bollywood does not seem to learn much, i can say for sure, that even after fiasco of Blue, there wud be many more such expensive, brain dead ventures lined up. Bollywood should have learnt it’s lessons right after 2002, when it was a Bloodbath at the BO, and they seemed to for some time, then again couple of undeserving movies hit the Big Time, and Bollywood just took it as a licence to churn out more n more rubbish.
Dhoom 2 & Dus became a hit, and so we had a rush of movies with shades, bikes, black jackets, cat suits, and some inane plot twists, not surprisingly most of them hit the dust. But trust me we still will be seeing more such flicks in the years to come.
The basic reason behind this, often, happens to be a race of different kind we often come across in the profession. People who just want to enter Bollywood, showbiz or even telly-biz for a short time. Losses or profit doesn’t matter much to them. They just want to return having made a name as a Producer. They often have some sort of money piled up and would want to be known and respected for their belongingness to the showbiz. And, as we know, as long as there’re fools around, shrewd will never die. This makes showbiz little different. People with myopia, a short term vision with an insignificant or rubbish aim of becoming a self-proclaimed film-maker help mediocre writers thrive. You don’t mind as a producer, director or writer if someone like this happens to agree to finance your film. Unfortunately, 2-3 such mis-hits and you’re gone. The financier, in any case, was not here to stay. The loss is yours.
Well Deepak certainly a good way of looking at films from the POV of a product life cycle.Fatigue is a very important factor to be kept in mind for understanding the audience mindset towards movies.Lets consider a classic case of a product/brand called Salman Khan.why did Wanted click while a Main Aur Mrs.Khanna and even London Dreams did not hit the bulls eye?
The answer lies in the audience mindset and the fatigue factor setting in.Genuine masala movies from top stars in Hindi cinema have become a rarity these days and Wanted thus fulfilled the vaccum.But when it came to Main aur Mrs.Khanna and even London Dreams fatigue had already crept into the audience mindset.There wasnt anything novel about these films for the audience to relate to and appreciate.
So a constant reinvention of the wheen is required to stay on top of the audience mindset otherwise you will end up getting relegated to the backseat.RGV’s gimmicks worked in case of Phoonk but the people where very careful when it came to Agyaat.
In a sense it was refreshing to see RKS trying to reinvent himself with APKGK after a Family and a Halla Bol.
That’s why, you can sell anything very well for the first time, if it is new, unique, good and well-packaged & promoted. One repeat of a unique offering is allowable, often out of curiosity and the liking for the first product – whether in the form of a sequel or an attempt by someone else along similar lines. But, a third attempt by anyone just to ape the older concept and sell it without re-innovation… suicide. These sequels or inspirations along similar lines are nothing new. Every decade has witnessed this without exceptions. We had so many period films around one historical character. A Nagina’s success was attempted to be exploited with Nigahein. Chaalbaaz was an adaptation (read remake) of Seeta Aur Geeta, to suit the taste of the contemporary generation. Of late, this phenomenon has just sped up. But, what baffles the viewers is the ease with which people in driver’s seat often overrule the need for at least a reinnovation, if not launching a unique product. The ones like Wanted or Ghazini where they at least created some USP in spite of the old wine in new bottle things, they tasted success.
oh hoye deepak ji…balle balle…
may u write well and sanity be there with you…
lotsa wishes and regards…
@ratnakar sir,
this is brilliant to know about lagaan sir…
Thanks for the suggestion. Would love to implement it and learn more about the same.
good one but not a word against the formula fils churned out by YRF .. ehhhh same punjab, nri, lassi, gobar, sarso ke khet, makke di roti & sarso ka saag, same ref. to DDLJ. it worked in a while , but its tasting stale now,
Dil Bole Hadippa showed the way. Though it worked somehow well in terms of finances but reinforces what you say. The point we referred to earlier in this post and subsequent comments that such things have worked because of the larger theme of pure romance and love which has been a stronghold of YRF as well Dharma. Take that pure and passion-filled romance out of these movies and what you are left with is the same old thing. It has worked for them for a long time due to, as I said, the complete packaging along with soulful music.
Let me give you an example. It was seen in even Jab We Met to the extent that several scenes of the movie were reminiscent of YRF or Dharma flicks. The deja vu actually made us feel as we were watching a re-make of one of those movies when it came to Punjab scenes.
But the same was not only tolerated well but loved due to other stronger elements that overpowered them. The theme itself was a winner. Music got over you. And, let me confess, we were watching the movie in a group of 12 friends, 10 of whom looked bored. I and one other friend sat through and just loved it. Out from theater, we declared it to be a winner and “lambi race ka ghodaa”. I just sent a congratulatory message to Imtiaz. The movie picked up by word of mouth and still has a strong following while the movie must have run at least 500+ times in its satellite run.
Viewers may forgive a film-maker for deja vu experience with the same rut if, in spite of that, they get to watch something refreshing in the complete package.
Agree or agree to disagree?
Deepak,
Boy…Boy….
I amazed by all three – the promptness, the quality and the volumes of your replies!!!
21 comments + the main write-up in a single day! At the rate of 50,000 words a day, you are almost doing a short Chetan Bhagat kinda novel in a single day!!! Ever thought about it….
Branch out of PFC dude, and start on your own – be it reviews, columns or even full-fledged books. Or the strategy is to create a regular following for yourself through PFC, establish your brand and then go independent? If yes, that’s not a bad strategy either!
Take that pure and passion-filled romance out of these movies
In which of the recent movies of yrf and dharma .. u me or hum have managed to find pure and passion filled romance .. they have a formula an keep on flogging the same dead horse again and again :(
Deepak,
Boy…Boy….
I amazed by all three – the promptness, the quality and the volumes of your replies!!!
21 comments + the main write-up in a single day! At the rate of 50,000 words a day, you are almost doing a short Chetan Bhagat kinda novel in a single day!!! Ever thought about it….
Branch out of PFC dude, and start on your own – be it reviews, columns or even full-fledged books. Or the strategy is to create a regular following for yourself through PFC, establish your brand and then go independent? If yes, that’s not a bad strategy either!
“Overwhelmed… “humbled”… and “surprised”… are few of the words that you can read on my face at this moment.
It amazes me to notice the ease which you just calculated it… But, what amuses me much is the reference to Chetan Bhagat… Not just that… I broke into laughter with a combination… pl re-read your comment… “a short Chetan Bhagat”… this reminds me of a context from a hillarious movie- HUNGAMA… and the reference was CHHOTA CHETAN…. hahahahah … chhota Chetan…. so amusing
And… shhhh…. If OZ even hears that you suggested me to branch away from PFC…. he will blacklist me and you both… hahaha
Dear OZ listening ???
Hey Punit, happily or sadly, we get to choose from only what we get. And, that’s what the reality is. If a love story like Titanic is not happening in Bollywood, we can only contend with what we get in a DDLJ, Chandni, Kuchh Kchh Hota Hai, Dil To Pagal Hai or, lately, a Veer Zaara and so on. As rightly pointed out by Anugam in one of his earlier comments above, we are living in the age of relative truth. And, why just this? We don’t have any parameters to measure how good is too good or how passionate is too passionate. I’m not an admirer of YRF or Dharma. But, my only point is that in spite of several cliched elements, they are still able to package most of their products better than most of their counterparts trying their hands with formula. Probably they master their formula better than the rest and that’s how they are still looked forward to. What I admire about them is that they pompously do not claim to be “different”.
Bro, otherwise, I’m also starved to watch a good passion-filled cinema. Been long time since, for one single moment… one scene.. in one film touched and exhorted my soft emotions to the core… To cheer myself I still remember… one moment as a referral… in Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar… just before the onset of the song Pehla Nasha. That one moment was maddening. Not because I was much younger then. But, almost two decades since then, that happens to be one moment I still remember, refer and relate to. One more moment was in Dil To Paagal Hai. It is all about finding such moments in a movie you actually relate to.
I bet, you can fall in love with a movie just for one scene, one dialogue, one expression. For that matter, I could not stop my heart from getting goosebumps in one forgettably-directed movie – Mangal Pandey. Just one moment in that movie to compensate for tolerating the entire movie.
Don’t you agree?
Hey Deepak,
Can you elaborate on these special moments please – the one’s from JJWS, DTPH and Mangal Pandey?
Also, talking about relative truths – I do strongly believe that age and lifestage (apart from choice ofcourse) do have a huge role to play in our liking for particular movies.
Try going back to DTH. The mega blockbuster of the 90s. And tell me frankly, that don’t you hate it for being so damn mushy. I mean that SRK’s Maya-Maya act tends to get on your nerves big time!!! Infact, try going back to yet another SRK movie – Deewana – a major blockbuster of its time and one that heralded the arrival of SRK. In those times, we too loved SRK, the songs and the movie.
But try going back today, and you’ll get terribly irritated with SRK’s over the top mannerisms. He hams and overacts real badly throughout the movie. Simply unwatchable!
Infact, talking about the relativity phenomenon – I strongly think that only those movies that manage to withstand this test of relativity (age, lifestage, choice, era, positioning strategy, hype) go down in the hall of fame as TRUE BLUE CLASSICS or All Time Hits. The rest, despite doing spectacularly well during their times, simply fade out of public memory.
Picture this – Mr. India and Dance Dance, both released at approx same time. Both did spectacular business. But, in the long-run, Dance Dance has faded out as a trashy B-grader. But it is Mr. India – that till today – and perhaps forever – will continue to wow audiences across the entire spectrum of relativity discussed above.
Jai Santoshi Maa was a huge hit. So was Kranti. And more recently Vivah.
But do they have an eternal audience base like Sholay, DDLJ, Lagaan, Gadar or even smaller hits like Mr. India or Jab We Met? No, Never. Jai Santoshi Maa worked in its time. And had various factors that worked in its favour – during that time. Period. Perhaps, It didn’t had the essential eternal ingredient to keep it going forever.
Also, mark my words – one of 2009’s biggest hits Love Aaj Kal – despite being a much bigger hit than JWM, belongs to the former category i.e. Hit sans any guarantee period.
For future generations, or even 2-3 years down the lines, Love Aaj Kal would gradually fade away…and may never be a popular Satellite or DVD option.
But JWM will continue to march as a timeless classic for a much longer life Cycle.
Hey Deepak – this could be a very interesting subject for further deliberation. You spoke about Product Life Cycle. Greatness of various Movies is often measured by their BO success. But how bout their longevity beyond their theatrical run?
Shouldn’t ROI be calculated on longevity? Every independence day and republic day, Border and RDB are standard fares on our telly. No Entry is telecast every week. Amitabh’s Don is a tireless hit….which satellite channels can never seem to have enough of. Aren’t these what we mean by real cracker of movies? However, a Ram teri Ganga Maili (perhaps the biggest hit of Raj Kapoor’s career) has simply faded into oblivion (apart from the famous waterfall scene). Longevity, eternity, timelessness V/s BO returns.
Food for thought young movie maker. Can you build on this further?
Now this is quite a weight… weight of expectations; not sure if I’m able to sail through yet or, will succumb to
What a lead(!) for another string of deliberation and discussions.. phew!!!
Here we herald at two theories of PLC (product life cycle) in the context of films – 1.Life cycle of a film and its concept as an idea (for how long it can be exploited) and; 2.One film as a product beyond its theatrical run, satellite exploitation, relevance, acceptance and viewers’ tolerance for a sustained period.
That is what is implied by relative truth and, the theory of relativity re-surfaces. Not every fact what is a truth today can go down in history as a timeless truth. You may like to refer to one of my earlier comments – “A rational and relieving change never comes without a milieu.”
So, taking a leaf from here, I’ll further divide “filmy” truths (hits) into two categories. ONE, films that came as a breeze of fresh air sort of change over fatigue. TWO, films that were essentially good and designed to succeed. The first category comprises of topical or contemporary hits which might or might not have been very good. But they succeeded because they were well done, brought much-required change to the fatigued audiences. From a Dance-dance, Ram Teri Ganga Maili, Hum Aapke Hain Kaun and the recent Love Aajkal or Wanted are examples of films which were done well in the contemporary context. That they were good in the context of the exact period (read week) when they were released. Part milieu, part goodness helped them top the charts. Many of SRK movies, therefore, also fit in the category which we find equally irritating and amusing with his overboard histrionics and “mannerisms”. Yet, they became examples of big-time success.
All-time successes, however, differ in nature. They are often independent of their milieu when looked upon from their Box Office performance. A positive milieu (like vacuum and dearth of good films) of course would make a big film bigger. As a negative milieu (like simultaneous release of more of good films and other external factors) would harm its prospects. But, an essentially good film, independent of its milieu in its success would remain as a timeless classic.
Jab We Met fits in the second category. As cited above, in spite of its inspiration of a la YRF style Pnjabi Tadka, Jab We Met soared high. A good film will. An Omkara will be remembered for many things. A Kaminey may not even remain memorable for Vishal himself. Mr. India, Sholay, DDLJ, Lagaan, RDB, JJWS and many more of such movies belong to a clan well-conceived, well-dome and independent of milieu in success. They were relevant to the times when they were released, touched upon some of the universal and timeless issues facing India or, timeless human emotions.
So, Himanshu, mate, remember we discussed in one of our earlier arguments over another post that as all hit films are not necessarily good films, nor all good films are essentially successful. The longevity depends on their goodness, originality, relevance and their treatment of the subject. For that matter, the same subject can be treated differently by different directors. One may become a timeless classic, other a highly forgettable flick.
Let’s also carry this topic to another post
Coming to the point of the high moments of some of those movies (I repeat, these are my personal experiences and may not stand as true for everybody); in Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar.. the very moment and mushy feeling in the heart of the heroine (Ayesha Zulka) just before the play of the song Pehla Nasha. It was so innocent. The innocence remains and still titillates. In Dil To Pagal Hai, I exactly can’t explain the moment but there were 1-2 such moments in spite of the high drama and extreme Maya-”mannerisms” when you often felt like speaking the heart out on the behalf of the hero. Mangal Pandey will remain in my memories for its title song and the force it filled me with. It suddenly took me a century and half back in time and I had my fist tight enough to punch the Britishes. No moment of drama succeeded to impress. But, the sudden outburst of a similar fire within was what I found again while watching RDB. Films that help you connect to are films that will remain with you. Longevity.
Other successful films are Box Office victories
Well said Deepak! Perfectly in sync with your analysis and insights.
Spelling mistakes….
thanks for correcting Himanshu and Deepak ji.
@Ratnakar bhai,
Dot Com boom-shoom ko choro. Let’s talk about Lagaan and ‘Escape to Victory’. Regarding Lagaan’s ‘inspirarion’, please chk out a 1994 Kevin Bacon film named ‘The Air Up There’ where a gora man lands up in an impoverished african village to teach it’s rather tall inhabitants–basketball! Though none of them can afford nike shoes , they still go on to beat the trained Basketball team from the nearest town.
Yes, the final grudge match is fought over the entire Landed property that the poor villagers stand to forfeit AND the same match is won on a 3 pointer on the final whistle.
Quite a news to me. Apologies, if you think I’ve remained in oblivion all this while and didn’t know this. That this is so common sense to have found out in seven years
Yet, Manoj, I suggest, Ashutosh Gowarikar deserved and still deserves a round of applause for several reasons. Though I haven’t watched that film you mention, but, if Ashutosh spotted its relevance and aptness for Indian adaptation, it should be patted. For that matter, several directors – regardless of whether they acknowledge or not – indulge in such adaptations. Unfortunately, we have very rare examples of brilliant adaptations (read remake). Ashutosh’ was great one. But, IPR and copyright issues should never be infringed upon and, why not to spend some money on a legal adaptation. Other marvelous examples of successful adaptations, we have in Vishal Bhardwaj’s Maqbool, Omkara and Blue Umbrella.
Most importantly, however, what Lagaan will be remembered for are its lateral impact on Bollywood. It changed the way Bollywood looked and behaved. It heralded something new. Maybe the timing also was brilliant when we had yet another timeless classic Dil Chahta Hai coinciding it and helping to reinforce Bollywood.
Manoj, well for that matter Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander was adapted from Breaking Away, Masoom from A Man, A Woman and a Child, Dil Hai Ki Maanta Nahin from It Happened One Night and so on.
The key here is to adapt the movie to Indian context, Kasoor was a frame to frame copy of Jagged Edge, but where it sucked was making Lisa Ray wear mini skirts to court, yet to see courts in India do that. Of course watching Lisa Ray and Aftab Shivdasani trying to act, is another thing.
Hrishida took the basic theme of Beckett, two friends on opposite side falling out, but completely setting it against a trade union backdrop, and making it a class struggle in Namak Haraam.
BTW Hollywood has as many inspirations and adaptations, there was this Ingmar Bergman movie Virgin Spring, about a father taking revenge on the people who murdered and raped his daughter. Wes Craven, took the ssme story, and made it into a Grindhouse kinda flick in “Last House on the Left”.
The examples cited by you take it to one step further. But, Ratnakar, didn’t we also notice so many similarities in the plots of Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar from The Bicycle Thief?
Anyway, the point driven well home by you is that though we all detest the so-called inspiration (read lift) factor, we must say kudos to the film-makers who spotted the worth of a plot for Indian adaptation. Especially when not many others were giving us so many of fresh ideas with the same impact. There should be a line drawn help legalize and authenticate this process of making “inspirations” “legal”. But, the power and conscience both remain with the storyteller who must devise some mechanism. Maybe it adds another crore to the budget to acquire the legal rights to adapt a story for an Indian remake. But, won’t it gain them more respect as a man of substance, instead of being termed “lifters”?
Vishal could have easily got away easily without himself telling the world that he was adapting some of the timeless stories like Macbeth and Othello. But, I believe, it being a declared Indian adaptation, generated more curiosity. Yes, it needs a maverick director to adapt the plot, scenes and visualization to suit the Indian context and taste. Else what we get is unthinkable flicks like Kasoor with unreasonable scenes and acts.
But, the larger mass of Indian audiences equally deserve good cinema from the world over, in their own national language. Wish, it were done more systematically.
More like the way telly reality show formats were legally adapted and lapped up. Don’t we still like to watch Indian Idol, Big Boss, KBC, Sach Ka Saamna and many more? These were genuine and legal adaptations where the original makers were also involved in the process and helped with inputs where required. In other cases too, we’ve several other so-called reality shows just aping these concepts and taking fatigue to the extreme levels?
“But, Ratnakar, didn’t we also notice so many similarities in the plots of Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar from The Bicycle Thief?”
Surely ur not serious.
Barring the fact that both movies have cycles and a father son bonding angle, JJWS and Bicycle Thief are as similiar as chalk n cheese.
Yes… I mean when we go on to finding and pin-pointing similarities, I think we can single out at least 75+ per cent of world movies which have lots of elements of commonalities. This was just another example of the trend to pin-pointedly dissect something and finding out such elements. Mostly done by the news channels for the sake of “scoop”. Good and bad both, the way you want to look at it. It has its own merits and demerits as we discussed.
But, JJWS is actually ‘inspired’ from a 1979 movie ‘Breaking Away’. But, Bicycle Thieves? No way!
JJWS: The plot is mostly lifted from an Australian movie that I watched on TV a long time back (I remember something like Callaghan gold..but a google search on it was not helpful). This was the story of a father and two sons where the father always keep encouraging the older one and badly wants him to with the Marathon type of race totally ignoring the younger one. The one nice twist in that plot was that the younger son does his own thing and participates in the race and is almost about to win… but seeing the agony on his father’s face deliberately slows down at the last minute to let the older brother win. A lot of father/son and brother/son scenes are direct lifts.
The Ayesh Jhulka love track is heavily inspired by “Secret Admirer” (This one is readily available on Google).
Inspite of that, JWWS is still a very well made movie, but Mansoor Khan and originality never went together.
Yes Tanul, it off course was “inspired by” Breaking Away, no denying at all. But here the reference point was that… didn’t we hear that there were elements of commonalities between these two as well… that was said on the behalf of the doom-sayers and scoop-makers who would have us believe things this way.
I and Ratnakar are driving home the point that a film may be a direct lift from another successful or even an unknown film and yet can deserve a round of applause for the good adaptation, work and genuity in terms of the relevance and suitability. Keeping the IPR and copyrights concerns aside for a moment, the director must also be given a pat at the back for spotting a good film that the Hindi audiences in India deserve. But, it can and should be done better by properly buying rights to re-make the film like it is happening on telly now.
Coming again to sweeping or just passing references between movies, my point was if we go by such match-makers in the desperate search of a filmy scoop for newsbreak, there are at least 75+ per cent of the movies across the world which have such referential elements of commonality from one movie or the other. It is high time we organized that as an ethical adaptation instead of poor plagiarism.
But the most cliched thefts of all time, not the story though, is the Matrix effect. It got so much copied that so many TV serials showed this poorly and stole the original thrill out of the real Matrix. Talking of stealing effects, I remember there was a film ‘Criminal’ starring Nagarjun and Manisha Koirala, which had so many effects copied bit to bit…. funny that was..
Criminal was a frame to frame remake of The Fugitive, with some added masala.
Yes, I think Pranshu is referring to the same film “The Fugitive”. It was such a dumb copy that even the sparks coming out, out of the friction of iron surfaces in action scenes appeared if the sparks were guided too
)
I am thoroughly disappointed with this discovery :( I thought we had atleast one genuine film inspite of its apparent similarities to “Escape to victory”. I had a similar sinking feeling after watching “Bluffmaster”. I was ecstatic that Bollywood could come up with such a cool movie only to figure out that was a frame to frame copy of some other film. I am hoping that LRMB is really as original as I think it is and does not have plot similarities with any other foreign film. I will revel in my ignorance till some one breaks that bubble too :-)
product life cycle….shelf life….product management….turnover…marketing….promotion…crowdsourcing….outsourcing…shit…..piss….gobar…..you name it….it’s all the same, terms coined by losers who are afraid of doing original stuff.
History has taught over and over again that all blockbuster products succeed because they change the way people thing, and they bring something new to the table, whether it’s iPod or MAC or Walkman or Memento or Matrix. But still management schools teach that we copy the rich and the successful in order to be successful.
“No formula is the best formula. Bend rules, break rules and change rules” and create no rules as your legacy. Dear Vineet, please refer back to the comments and discussions above.
And, that is the essence of the entire argument that you cannot have a formula for success. That any new idea will remain new and work for a maximum of 2 times. Try it any further and you run the risk of burning your fingers. And, therefore, innovation, killing the older product or idea when it is still alive and kicking is what generates curiosity and gives eyeballs. And people really need balls to do it. PLC, promotion, marketing, positioning et al are the other side of film-making and more the business of a producer. But, didn’t we say that the director and producer need to work very closely on a film. Unfortunately, the recent failures of several films in a row exposes the lack of synergy between the two. Any MAC, Walkman, iPod or Matrix… any product didn’t just become a great product. A great product becomes great for its innovation, utility and timing. But, these are just some of the intrinsic features of it. I’m sure, several more MACs, Walkmans, iPods and Mementos must have died a premature death by their respective manufacturers because they couldn’t have positioned, promoted or marketed them well for some reason or the other. Product quality is the intrinsic feature like a talented professional. But, you need the environment too.
My comment was more of an ideological posturing, I understand your points but I still strongly feel that these things are just an extension of common sense and you can’t teach common sense(by corollary you can’t write a book on it as well), which is why most of the business leaders and successful people happen to be people who have a lot of vision and observation, no wonder then that most of them have never studied in a B school and are unfamiliar with these business terms.
As the cliche goes “Common Sense is not always Common”
Reminds me of a quote by Horace Greelay- “common sense is very uncommon”.
Most of legendary personalities in any field in the world often happened to become so without a degree or specialization it that field. Did Dhirubhai Ambani attend to those management classes? Did Dadasaheb Phalke attend to an FTII? Did Jawaharlal Nehru attend to a course in Public Administration. The answer in most of the cases for former generation would be no.
Theories are made on the basis of observations and studies made through a peep in what they did to reach where they reached and then to keep themselves atop. So, theories serve the purpose as reference points to help us learn from how others succeeded or failed, in simple words. But, they don’t mean the end of the world. It’s just like when you teach a kid not to touch the fire. He learns, good. He burns his fingers first and then learns, even better. He had a first-hand experience. So, theories are for us as facilitators. Yet, it is the instinct and our own appraisal of our ideas that helps us. Better to do away with theories the day they start to limit our scopes. Theories are only made on the basis of what has already been explored. So, if we do not tend to go beyond the existing theories, we can probably never explore what has not yet been done. Had Newton been awed by theories, he would probably never have had got curious about why does the apple only fall down and doesn’t go up.
So, we must keep challenging the convention. But, not without using our own reasonable common sense.
Since engineering happens to be my first love, I love to show examples from the Tech Industry where all the leaders happen to be college dropouts.
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates to start with
and where you guys will put Pyaasa and Kagaj ke Phool in all these analysis.
success always does not mean great and vice versa…
there is huge difference in Steve and Bill style.. management, thinking etc… and to add more Donald Trump.
but one thing very clear… Trump VS Steve/Gate mentality/attitude.
and Bollywood goes into Trump side of line…
Ravi, let me answer this on behalf of Deepak. I think, in marketing terms, these films are like “Lal Dant Manjan”, not really the top-grosser product. But, they’ve stayed with us before I first opened my eyes. Think, Deepak will be happy with my example of toothpaste… whatsay Deepak ?
Yes Pranshu, some products and brands grow and continue through the ages, often silently, generation by generation. Though I only wonder what the future holds for these films in the MTV age. For the generations who first happened to open their in this new millennium, I’m afraid, if they’ll really be able to connect with these film though :(
Yes, Dhirubhai Ambani is a great example for all the Management Gurus and wizards. Hats off.
Not 100% if corporate corrupting politics for business gains should ever be highlighted, he would be in the forefront. He was a great visionary but executing anything to get what he needed at the cost of corruption… and that Nusli Wadia assasination plan still hangs in air. Not sure what came of it. Brilliant entrepreneur. Terrible example for morality. Sorry.
OZ has answered this very swiftly. His was a case of an extraordinary mastery over the system and its maneuvering for the business interests. Though, yes, his business foresight was a thing to look forward to.
wonderful analysis….The comments especially ones by you were classy to say the least…
Hope you write more
Bharti, I’m falling in love with this post and the comments thereon. Can you please mark some comments that you liked and have referred to?
Thanks Bharathi. I am simply overwhelmed with the way this post has grown stronger with so much of value-additions by each of us. Looking forward to you to keep coming back to my posts and benefit us with valuable inputs.
In fact Deepak, this particular post of yours as emerged as one of the biggest discussions this month……Second only to Jail’s review (Jail Bin Machli). But trends indicate that it is sure to go well past Jail in the coming days.
Certainly, you’ve come a long way by building up quite a following in such a short span of time. Long way from your first post…..both in terms of the quality and sheer volume of response generated.
Way to Go!
I owe part of this to you
Had it not been for the so-termed “acidic” ones from you
maybe I’d not have felt so involved. And yet, mate, remember it was not me who called it so. Jo hota hai achchhe ke liye hota hai 
Just hope to be able to keep writing; more importantly, writing good and good-writing. Thanks again bro for helping it make bigger
@ Manoj, Ratnakar, Tanul: Whether it’s about sweeping references, passing references or suggestive ones, you may like to get a copy of the movie “Om Dar Badar” made by Kamal Swaroop in 1988 and banned before release. I’m yet to get a copy of the movie but reading whatever I could get hold of, about the movie, it suggests lots of resemblance with Dev D. Maybe Kamal Swaroop made a movie 20 years in advance and didn’t go down very well with Censor guys and authorities. Maybe, Anurag mixed the concept well with the Devdas-like theme. Whatever. But, the basically common element was that Devdas is essentially the story of a youth in search of his eternal identity. So was probably Om Dar Badar. And, so is Dev D. But, the comparisons just start from here.
Go, do a google for “Om Dar Baar” and watch the bizarre video and song watching which, don’t blame anybody if you think it is too much of a coincidence
I guess some facts are not correctly mentioned here.
It is ” Om Dar-Badar ” (as they write in Hindustani- jab Akbar ka Janam hua Humayun dar-badar bhatak raha tha) – close to the meaning of “A shelterless Om”.
Many a times this film has been mentioned/discussed on PFC.
If I am not wrong NFDC also funded it and it had won critic award so I dont think it was banned in 1989. I might be wrong but dont recall ever reading in newspapers that it was a banned film.
It could not get kind of notice it deserved is another matter. Perhaps DD did not show it so it could not get a wide acceptance.
It is not that Anurag stole the song from the film. Anurag himself had written in one of his posts that he had shown Amit the song (Mohabbat Humsafar ho jaa of Om Dar-Badar)
Thanks RK for shedding more light on this as, as said earlier, I’m yet to watch it and cannot conclusively say many things about this. Apologies if any fact was misrepresented.
By explaining with the literal meaning of the title, you made it self-explanatory – “a shelterless Om”. Brewed together with the meaning explained by me, it achieves entirety. “a shelterless Om” in “search of his eternal identity”. That’s what it was. I’d also like to further associate this with the characteristics of the decade of 80s briefed by me and PS above. It reflects the larger confusion of that decade and; on a more socio-political level, also the youth anguish symbolic of the phase when the memories of emergency and youth movements had not faded away completely.
You’re right that NFDC was one of the key stakeholders. I would even like to add that the film also bagged the Filmfare Critics Award. Yet, I’m sure of having read in some authentic magazine or so about the film being banned.
And, not at any point did I write that Anurag stole the song. But, I said the bizarre-ness of the song in its entirety – from lyric to music, set, visualization and the complete effect – it is one straight case of inspiration.
What is so good about this inspiration is that Anurag himself wrote and talked about this inspiration on PFC itself. (http://passionforcinema.com/devd-emosional-atyachar/). Sort of what I’ve been advocating here in my comments that inspirations and adaptations can take things to another higher level and serve much purpose if that can be done in an ethical way as Anurag accepts and, organied way as lots of international TV shows are coming to India.
AND YES… HEYY… JUST FOUND OUT AFTER DOING SOME MORE GOOGLE… The Censor Board first banned it, considering it was retrogressive or something unreasonable for that time. It still remains so to some extent
But, later they set it free to release. It was released poorly though and, had little takers. And, yes, the high point (probably only such high point) was its Filmfare Critics Award for the Best Film (ironically, for a film understood and watched by few and shelved forever) 
Om Dar Badar song, just for a quick reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_LOoVoaXM
Brilliant post Deepak. I repent that why am I reading this so late while it has already become one of the most read blog of the month.
But pl tell me one thing. Even if I agree with your post, I have a question against your write-up. Why is it so that some particular kind of films and stories are made so many times and they have still been sucessful.
If you refer to some of the earlier comments and answers in this post it’ll be easier to find why do some particular kind of films achieve success in spite of their repeated use of common elements.
My example would be “romance” as the central theme. Now, tell me, even if romance is such an old theme in all the writings and films, why does it still make us feel good when reading or watching a sweet love story. Barbara Cartland’s extreme success or, as quoted earlier, “YRF’s success” goes on to tell us a lot about it. Similarly, any well-packaged movie with a fresh plot or perspective and connecting with often-hidden emotions, may achieve success though the subject may appear old.
Deepak, also, if films were anything comparable to products then how do you compare there shelf-life in terms of their everalsting theatrical, satellite and DVD exploitation especially with regards to the sucessful films, how do you compare that to a physical product in the market. Can you give an example comparing this with any soap, toothpaste or any such product? I am loving this debate and the marketing mantra you’ve broken it into.
Successful films are to a great extent comparable to a successful physical product. As asked by you, I’d say – Colgate, Lux, Lifebuoy and many other good brands have stayed with us and we have grown with them as we have grown with films like Sholay, Zanzeer, Abhimaan. The only minus point for films is the re-packaging and re-positioning which is very difficult for films unlike these FMCG products. You’ll notice, a Lifebuoy, Lux or Colgate has undergone several changes, variations and changes in campaign & communications through the ages. Just in sync with the market dynamism. For films, however, you may not re-package them. But, yes, with movie channels and DTH regime, several stars and films were revived and are often positioned uniquely. You can easily refer to campaigns like “Ab Tak Bachchan” and “King SRK” etc. on SET Max or other channels. Even if the brand may be very strong, the prospective consumers have to be constantly educated about the product and brand and, in the same dynamic manner as the market displays as well requires.
Several satellite channels have gone too far in reviving and keeping alive older classics, though for their own profits and TRPs. But, the benefit is accrued to the film more than to the channel. That is how only, we still have the teenagers and kids still enjoying a Chupke Chupke or Golmaal by Hrishikesh Mukherjee as much as they watch today’s forgettable comedies. Thanks to the satellite channels.
Don’t you guys think that we have had enough of this Dil Chahta Hai “formula”? From Dil Chahta Hai to Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Naa and Rock On, all good films in this genre had a common formula even if with a different plot most of the times? Even ‘3 Idiots’ resembles very much. How far do you think this is going to take the directors and filmmakers of this formula?
Films touching upon soft emotions like good romance and friendship, if brewed with fresh plot, are tilted toward finding success. Most of these films you are referring had either good music, cast, performances, direction and, most importantly, an unbeaten positioning. They knew their business. 3 Idiots is based on the blockbuster Chetan Bhagat novel – Five Point Someone. The only minus point is that while the story is based on the life and times of fresh IIT entrants, 2 of the 3 lead cast here happen to be 40-45 age-group actors. But, everything is going just too well for the film. Raju Hirani is another plus-factor for the film, unlike an adaptation of One Night At Call Center which became too fickle with Hello. The film will work.