Shyam Benegal and Anurag Kashyap : In conversation
PrintiView Author: Salik Shah (New Delhi, India)
Email:salik.shah [at] gmail [dot]com
Shyam Benegal and Anurag Kashyap : In conversation
[ When I asked Benegal who were his favorite young directors, he said 'that young man' looking at Anurag's direction. And throughout the interaction @ IHC, he kept on shifting the focus to the young filmmaker]
Excerpts from this conversation :
Anurag Kashyap: Suggests a Swedish film– Let the Right One In
Shyam Benegal: (Credibility versus realism?)
I don’t have to be realistic to be credible. (He felt Dev D was credible.)
AK: My movies are about subcultures.
36 hours: Time taken to start and finish a script. I then improvise on it.
I’ve stopped analysing it.
SB’s suggestion to AK: Think, analyse.
Difference between the treatment of women (between the duo’s films) isn’t important.
Anurag’s world is very subjective and what is emerging from him is very fascinating.
AK: We don’t talk. (On the relationship he shares with his cinematographer. They understand each other.)
I like Neon lights. (The Batman comics hangover. Being independent matters. )
SB: After you make a film, you’ve to cut the umbilical cord. You’ve to disconnect yourself from your film.
AK: I can’t.
SB: You’ll learn.
Each person connects to a film if they like — once that happens it’s no longer yours.
I don’t sit back and say it was a great movie I made. You have get disconnected, else there will be problems (in the next filmmaking process. Move on).
In Black Friday, (he felt AK) had now a sense of control over the medium.
But the way he shot Gulaal made me a little worried. (AK shot Gulaal with long breaks… Filmmaking is a marathon — not for a sprint.)
Once you’re done (making a movie), you say what the hell have I done? (Never satisfied? Both agree.)
AK: ‘That kills you.’ (On being forced to cut 45 minutes from Gulaal in order to secure its release.)
(The censor cleared Paanch six years ago. He’s looking for a producer to release it. Hopefully by June/July.)
SB: I never took money from the state until everything was dried up….
If you get money easily, that desire (to make a movie) won’t be there.
AK: Create a hub for movie goers. I’m more of a movie buff than a filmmaker. (Creating a bar for cinema lovers is important where you can spend a whole day discussing, watching films… A new tradition has to be started
My films are watched in Delhi more than in Mumbai.
Ransa was the strongest character in the original movie. But he was also dispensable.
Piyush doesn’t know how to play tabla, so I put that Ardhanarishar to play it. One was sur, the other was taal. There’s no other meaning to it.
SB: Weary of television work as the method tends to get ironed out — plain…
AK: Struggle is within you.
SB: A filmmaker should be a strategist (for business) and subversive (creatively). You try all sorts of things(, find loopholes in the system, to send your message, make your film.)
AK: Superstars are the slave of their image. They can’t do anything that can hurt the image. (Refers to a scene from Luck By Chance.)
New Wave is a very relative term. I want more filmmakers to come and make films: that will be New Wave for me.
SB: ‘Indian New Wave’ is to me a myth. The term was not even ‘New Wave’ — it was parallel cinema. (Only film critics/journalists used those terms. A filmmaker never uses that term.) Some people called my film ‘middle cinema’. I have never understood that.
Tags: Anurag Kashyap, Black Friday, Dev D, Gulaal, shyam benegal
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Varma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Sorry what was this about. At the least u could provide some backdrop of this conversation or the context.
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i was mighty confused, no offence meant.
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@Salik, liked Shyam Babu’s quotes
” no need to be realistic to be credible”
“Importance of analysis (at scripting stage and later also?)”
“After making the film, maker has to disconnect from it”
“Bit dissatisfaction after completing the film”
“Business aspect vs creativity”.
–
Coming from a veteran filmmaker!!
Hope you provide more details about this conversation and may be some interviews if you managed to take one or two .
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It is a great piece…looks like Salik eavesdropped some conversation…wonderful quotes though..
‘Think, Analyze’
‘I never took money from the state until everything was dried up….
If you get money easily, that desire (to make a movie) won’t be there.’
How many posts interpreting the relevance of ‘Ardhanarishwar’ in Gulaal ? – now we have the reason ‘Piyush doesn’t know how to play tabla, so I put that Ardhanarishar to play it. One was sur, the other was taal. There’s no other meaning to it.’ LOL
If Salik could pass on more if he has noted down or structure it better..then it would make a great read…now itself its a treat..The Zen Tiger and the Shaolin Cub..
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“relevance of ‘Ardhanarishwar’ in Gulaal ?”
———–
it can not be “‘Ardhanarishwar’ ”
It can be a person in the get up of “aadha nar and adha nari (half man and half woman)” but certainly no ishwar will be there. It’s reserved only for God in Hindu mythology.
people writing on the film have added this word themselves
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Yeah…
…Since Ishwar is there in all…we can use that term as a sobriquet to humans too…Aham Brahmasmi…
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Aham Brahmasmi,
yes Ram V,
if someone reaches at that level where he can realise it , else before that people are in/behind the get ups (persona) and hence divided among good, bad and ugly/ dev, manushya and asura
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Shyam Benegal is way too idealistic, you may call it creative medium but I feel it is very pretentious. The reason for my ire is the way he simply filtered off any trace of capitalism in Welcome to Sajjanpur.
I have been trolling villages since past six months(something I had never done before in the two decades of my existence) for a field project and I find no village that does not sport any sort of commercial endorsement be it on the walls of homes, shacks on the roadside or in the market like area in the heart of the village.
While Gulaal had those interesting liquor brands endorsed.
New Wave Cinema are different because they create this coolness among different groups of peers and attract them to multiplexes and a few select cinema halls, which the venerable parallel cinema has never been able to do so.
Ask Girish Kasarvalli, how many people who speak the language of his latest movie, actually got to see it. He could not get ONE theatre to show his movie.
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Salik- couldn’t you have structured the whole thing a lot better?This looks like just a basic reproduction of a conversation between two people & doesn’t really make much sense on its own.
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“start and finish a script in 36 hours”. AK, please elaborate. looking forward to your response. thank you.
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@vinay…ha ha…before Anurag responds let me add what I learnt from his posts…he is a fast writer…thats what some of his posts suggests..he wrote black Friday in the 72 hours/48 hours something like that..read some of Anurags early posts in PFC, you will get to know better…
by the time we realize what we are we will be one with Ishwar and never worry about names , facades, masks…till then humans, asurs and devs alike will hide behind different names, avatars to confront adharma/dharma, whichever is the prerogative.. LOL…too spiritual for PFC…lets get into Aastha forum (if one exists) and continue this discussion.. 
@Rk…
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@Ram V,
Thats too theoretical conclusion. Suni sunayee, padhee padhayee 
You have not realised to know that on which you have written that it happens after one realises
Not a word justifying syadvad there?
BTW, PFC is too lively just like life. It is not monotonous. Astha and focused, scaterred knowledge etc, all may work here in a same way as they work in real life.
If Ram tere kitane naam can be true then PFC tere kitane rang can also be true. It’s all about variety.
Is not it?
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@Ram V…thank you. the mind still boggles. would love to understand the process…or the madness
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very confusing..What are the questions? whats the context? are they talking to each other?
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@Rk..
Life and PFC have should be colorful..i agree..
Ishq baazi aur mausiqi nahin to kuchh nahin,
Aur kuch kuch mai se dilchapsi nahin to kuch nahin
I am all for variety..
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@Ravi
” He could not get ONE theater to show his movie.”-
So?.. what you wanna do? Girish is making his own movies.. whats your problem even if he doesn’t get a theater..He’z been there for more than 25 years.
If the venerable parallel cinema couldn’t find a place, who should be blamed?..the venerable society of film goers or the venerable society of consumerists?
There is nothing called new wave, these are films that are accessible to the audience- a higher form of sensible entertainment. Nothing in comparison to the work of the masters.
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I loved Shyam Benegal’s quotes. AK sounds pompous to me.
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Our friend has posted some interesting extracts from a discussion held last evening (10th April) at India Habitat Centre, New Delhi… between Shyam Benegal and Anurag Kashyap, moderated by Ranjani Mazumdar, Asso. Prof of Cinema Studies at JNU, under the ‘Turning Point’ series.
It was a packed hall, mostly the youth (lots of JNU students), and made for some engrossing conversation that went on till 9 pm.
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Sounds too random to be able to comprehend anything! Sorry, I wish there was some reference to context!!
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NFDC was a boon, the kind of movies that came up under its ambit, even the ones by lesser known directors, such as pestonjee, massey sahib, current were all outstanding, over and above the ones by shyam benegal, ketan mehta etc. I wish they’d sell their collection online, i’ve been looking for some gems like ‘ye wo manzil to nahi’; ‘current’; ‘albert pinto ko gussa kyon ata hai’ and a few more, not available anywhere; anyone has a clue? If NFDC still existed, Paanch and Gulaal would’ve released on time, and wouldn’t have had to wait for Dev D.
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One thing I have already realized that ….a creator never be satisfied with his/her creation….always there is a unfinished feeling……i know…i can feel when i paint…..so it applies on every creative thing.
thnaks for this conversation….it is little random….but clear to understand enough.
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Ok, now I get it after reading what Rajeev Shukla has to say!!!
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Thanks for taking the trouble to publish some notes on this event – it’s the kind of thing I’d go to if I were closer (9000 miles problem in this instance) so I appreciate having some bulletins from it. I would really love to have seen/heard the public discussion between innovative Indian filmmakers of two generations.
If anyone else was there, maybe s/he will also stop by and contribute a note or two.
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Ardh-Nari was just Sur & Taal?
And I thought it depicted the entire political system involving power & corruption, which by it’s death hints us about future anarchy!
*huh*
AK: I like Neon lights.
That was a good revelation
Cheers!
~uh~
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The art movies made during 70s and 80s tried to capture the angst of unemployment and injustice. I never got to understand what purpose does it serve to show tragedy and boring stuff on the screen. They used to be all literally preachy, with no entertainment value. It was pure indulgence. I am all for Jaane bhi do yaaron kind of movies, where the whole movie turns out interesting with a real ending. So also Kabhi haan kabhi naa. Satya was also real, but also entertaining.
A real masterpiece emerged from Taare Zameen Par, because it not only shows a part of way of life, it actually gives hope and direction, without being preachy. Basically I rather like Guru than Gandhi my father. A story of hope than how to lose direction in life. No doubt such people exist. But who wants to see their life on screen. If people are so caught up to showcase such lives, then do so in an entertaining manner.
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@vinay
Oh! Such a Bore!!
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a correction there…ak said JESSE RANDHAWA’s character was cut despite it being the strongest in the initial script becoz it was dispensible…n not RANSAs
@vinay – boring? tragedy?? wot have u seen frm benegal? have u seen suraj ka saatvan ghoda? kalyug? sardari beghum? bharat ek khoj? not sure if we’re talking abt the same person here
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@vatsal, thanks for correction
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Hi, i happened to be there during the discussion and found anu too pompous. Another tendency of his is to hog limelight: During the discussion he mentioned Rajiv Ravi saying that such is the chemistry between him and Ravi that they don’t have to talk much…just two lines and Ravi shoots the thing. What i propose is to discuss Ravi’s cinematography too-giving due credit to him- and not to flood Anurag with all the accolades.This holds true for other departments too. This will not only open people to different nuances/drawbacks of film but also make the film appear a communal project and not one-man’s dreamcometrue…One more thing…anu hasn’t found his voice as yet, let him do that by criticizing his films frame by frame, shot by shot, scene by scene, sequence by sequence…otherwise he would keep on churning out “cacophony of lifted shots.” Anu, it takes more to be garlanded an “auteur,” so be a bit humble and please give others some “limelight” where its rightly due…words won’t do..
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Salik talks and writes in this way. Half his words are sheer imagination of his and half is something that a normal person can understand.
I don’t mean that what he has present in the interview is imagination but he writes what he thinks. It does not really have to be understandable by the other. If he can understand it then its fine.
Thats my personal experience.
Tajim
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