Gloom barabar gloom
This post is sponsored byFriday the 21st of September, 10am, INOX (Kolkata), I am sitting with five people sprinkled in different parts of the 250-capacity audi and watching Navdeep’s Manorama. By the time the interval comes one of the multiplex personnels have joined the lonely gang and by the time move ends, even the cleaner is completely hooked. Head count: 7.
Same day, same time, FAME (Kolkata), my colleague is sitting with four people in an even bigger audi watching Manish Acharya’s Loins of Punjab Presents. My friend, she wants to laugh but she finds it odd laughing alone. The only time she can’t hold her laughter is when one of the musical show contestants in the film sings the national anthem and one of the four audience members stands up in respect.
I am worried. I really am. And even though Anurag’s posts and his sheer optimism (ask him about the chances of Paanch releasing even after all these years and throw the same question to Kay Kay and you will know what I mean) cries out to hope, to keep faith, to just believe sorry I cannot. I cannot see what he can see and let me tell you I am trying.
I sincerely believe Manorama is one of the finest pieces of cinema to have come out on the Indian screen in all of 2007 (My review in The Telegraph). And almost 90 per cent of people coming on PFC believes that. And surprise, surprise even a handful of critics this time acknowledges that. They may not understand the deliberate pacing of the film and call it slow, they may misconstrue the lovely homage bits and call it plagiarism, they may not see that for the first time a very foreign cinematic form has been adapted to an Indian milieu with aplomb, but thankfully they can at at least realise this is genuinely “above average” or “3/5″ fare.
BUT WHERE IS THE AUDIENCE? Where is the casual movie watcher who will stroll in to watch Manorama? Where is the viewer who can gamble 200 bucks on a Manorama ticket and walk in the theatre with an open mind? Why do they warm up to Dhol and not to Loins of Punjab? Why Heyy Babyy, why Golmaal, why Dhamaal and why not Loins of Punjab Presents, why not Black Friday and why not Manorama?
What happens to the debutant director who cannot afford stars in his first film? What happens to the intelligent maker who has no say on how his well-made film is promoted on the telly? What happens to the thriller movie maker who just cannot have three hit songs to get the audiences in? It can be a sureshot high but if it doesn’t do a Murder or a Zeher or a Kya Kool Hai Hum, how can a Navdeep Singh or a Manisha Acharya make his second film like the way he wants to? Like the way Anurag Basu, Mohit Suri and Sangeeth Sivan have been able to call the shots?
Gone are the days when a big star will work with a new director backed by a small producer. Will a Salman Khan or a Shah Rukh Khan or a Hrithik Roshan do a film with a new director’s script like a Bruce Willis did with Shyamalan’s Sixth Sense screenplay? Yes, Aamir has done it on more than one occasion but he does one film in four years. How many directors will he bail out? How many directors will cineastes like Vishal Bhardwaj bail out? No Smoking would never have been made because Black Friday despite being what it is wasn’t a box office success. Now, Anurag has at least John in No Smoking but will even he get a big audience in? Look what happened with Kabul Express. It looked different from the usual Yash Raj films and people just didn’t turn up.
There’s nobody in this country to take note of a Fargo. William H Macy? Francis McDormand? They were even less popular than Abhay, Gul and Raima. It’s in the movie watching sensibility. Forget the critics, I can assure you that 9 out of 10 people have found Manorama slow. Bring it on, they must have thought, stop making them watch Tom and Jerry and play saanp-seedi… Can the majority of the plex junta ever truly appreciate a good film? Forget a film, can they ever appreciate a good moment, like the way the two neighbours are sitting symmetrically with chairs lined up against the wall, when Abhay and Raima come out in the morning? Navdeep, doesn’t it hurt man? Honestly, didn’t you believe that maybe just maybe the brilliant detailing would find more appreciation?
Everybody talks about word of mouth and good reviews. Who goes in to watch a movie after reading or watching a review? Writing reviews for a newspaper which reaches out to more than 10 lakh people, I myself seriously doubt it. They decide in their minds what to watch and what not to and yes it is almost always dictated by who’s in the movie. Arey bhai, word-of-mouth toh tab hoga jab koi dekhke aur phir jake kisiko bolega. If the opening is too weak, it’s usually all downhill from there. Chak De opening was average, not bad, and that’s why it picked up with word of mouth. A non-starter can hardly recover.
I am feeling really, really guilty for writing such a gloomy piece but I have been thinking about this all of last weekend and I am really disturbed. Is there a solution? Do you put Indian audiences in some machine and change the way they watch movies? Do you kidnap stars and force them to do good films and not the safe ones? Or do you just let the show go on? Myself, I am six feet under.
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How many times does the same question have to be asked???
You know the answer too…
not very sehmat with u Pratim,i agree sometimes lot of good films dont get seen by lot many ppl…but doosri taraf…lot of films with low budgets – non saleable starcasts have also managed to do decent bizness…some have also become hits…atleast in the metro’s…kuch filmein yaad aarahi hai…like dor,iqbal,khosla ka ghosla,bheja fry,pyaar ke side effects,being cyrus,1.40 Ki last local…LEKINNNNN lot of good films have also bombed like 15th park avenue,mixed doubles,aahista aahista,my bro nikhil,seher,yahaan,etc…but i strongly feel the trend is changing…the response is definitely very encouraging for ‘hatke’ films…for me itz definitely not gloom barabar gloom…have lot of ‘Ashayein’ from the junta and the film makers who r willing to experiment….more power to all!!!
Pritam..
I would call it Two Sides of a Coin, not sure which one would indicate a WIN ..
Let me share you one of my experience.. I think it was some day of February in 2004, when I went 9PM show to watch Maqbool (it was just the second day I believe).. Inside the theater, I found just 7 people with me, all of them front-benchers and as the film started a gang of four rickshaw-wala’s too joined in the frontbenchers. we were 11 now.. I soon found apart from me none of them had any clue about the film and they bought tickets just to watch the film without caring which film it is as a part of their routine life.. The film started and the gang and others could not set the pace with the film and were talking loudly about the gaali’s and language in first few scenes.. but within 10 minutes, the dust settled down.. and each one of us got completely into the film.. The silence broke only at the intermission time… being a known to Gulzar saab and Vishal, I thought let me get a reaction (as a personal duty and for my own pleasure) and did went to them and asked ki kaisi hai film.. and got replies like “mast hai” “funtastic fillum hai”..(made me realized the power of cinema).. Vishal had really made an impact on me (all of us) as the director… (Same me written off Director Vishal a few years earlier, suggesting him to remained hooked to music direction only and forget film direction (after a shoddy work in directing Gubbare)
After the Film was over, everyone of us came out with a smile that we have seen a good film, all genres of the crowd.. and each one of us took film with him on his way back to home (Oh yes everybody in Jaipur goes back to home after a night show)..
Fast Forward July 2006.. Omkara (First Day – 9PM Show).. Skipped all reviews and went to see the film.. Found crowd about 85% capacity of the theater .. Kids and Families were there too.. The film started and the audience were spellbound.. Into half an hour and one of the family sitting in my next row (husband-wife, two kids and 60+ mother) got up and left the hall.. subsequently every 5-10 mins, found some family or other leaving the theater.. At the time of intermission I think about 15 to 20% people left but still there were lot of people.. After the film was over, I could clearly see Disappointment written on each and every face.. It seems that every one wanted to avoid talking about the film and want to reach home at the earliest leaving the film behind at the theater..
Now Maqbool/Omkara Screenings for me are the same two sides of coin that you are talking..
Now its up to the film makers whether they want to call a heads or a tails for a WIN.. Whether they want thousands of people to appreciate the film when they see it.. or want millions of people watching it and not getting the point what the director want to convey..
(We have lots of film makers here and even Manorama:SFU could well be a good testing point on this issue.. Heads or Tails?..)
dear pritamda
first reaction came out of me as soon as i finished ur article…silently i was praying for box office success of MANORAMA.S.F.U and LOINS OF PUNJAB.
but here i can share some of my experience regarding these films.my experience may be helpful to the first time directors of good films. last saturday(22nd sep)me along with some of my collegues was at pvr saket(delhi). i had plans to watch MANORAMA.S.F.U and when i approached my collegues with my plan what they said compelled me to key down this reply. they asked me 2 wait until the dvd of the same is published. i have been assured that they will rent the dvd and then we will watch it together. and why such a reply? as they think that the movie is not worth of Rs.175. the maximum amount that could be spent on this movie is Rs.30(cost to rent a dvd at the nearby parlour). now that’s the way we middleclass(eonomically) viewers craft the fate of some good movies by the very talented first time directors. if u filmy people want to make money by making good movies then it’s better to find some business model based on sell of dvd. i don’t have any know how about the business involved with this sector. otherwise i could have suggested some models.
by the by let me share my next saturday schedule with u…there are three films to be wathched(alone this time)MANORAMA.S.F.U, loins of…, Dil Dosti Etc. now i am praying “oh God saturday is in ur Hand…plz manage my second priority jobs”.
Well I think it is also time to look at the full picture here. What I have been harping on all along, the business side of things…and nope am not playing down Navdeep’s/Manish/Anuraag’s movies, in fact these are going to be the harbingers of what is going on in the US and perhaps Europe too. I think now filmamers/audience/critics have got to stop looking at what happened in one theatre or theatrical and look at how the total revenue will pan out, from global rights/dvd/cable/airlines…and that is what the filmmaker is looking at…I don’t think how Manorma/Loins/No Smoking does, will do anything negative to a movement that has already started…cause the expectation here is OVERALL break even…and chances are it will, compare this to an AB starrer like JBJ or Tara Ram, here the expectation was a major blockbuster…turns out flop…high expectations bigger fall…no expectations…no fall. Plus it is time our distributors figured out the meaning of LIMITED RELEASE and yes I know piracy ka darr, but sorry boss, even then LIMITED RELEASE for these kind of movies…and like I said…have never felt more optimistic!!!!
@ pratimda
sorry to address u as pritamda. keyed the mail a bit hurriedly which resulted such mistake. sorry to u again.
To even begin to suggest that MSFU is an act of multiple plagiarisms is itself an act of hysterical blasphemy. For, what do I plagiarize if I indeed plagiarize masters like Antonioni or Polanski? Can I plagiarize their essential angst? Which, then, is the point. Where is Navdeep’s angst? MSFU is not even properly speaking an intelligent game. And I am saying this because you have disparagingly referred to the audiences lack of calibre to rise above the childish fare of ’saaNp seeRi’. What a devastating indictment of people’s cultural illiteracy? And how utterly dangerous? Stop making MSFU out to be some kind of an ideological rupture in the history of Indian cinema. It is nothing of the sort. Here people are going gaga about AD’s performance which is, by any reckoning, dull and stolid. A premise which begins with Sarika and Raima is hardly a premise. And Mr Pathak looks good because he is so comfortably surrounded by mediocrity. As for Rajasthan, I have already mentioned Kamal Swaroop. If that is not enough, then the maestro Mani Kaul and even a very ordinary American filmmaker James Polombo in a film called Milk and Opium.
PFC and AK have been raising expectations of films the industry normally doesn’t take note of…MSFU is one of them! Because of this expectation-I went and saw the film but honestly speaking it turned out to be another case of missed opportunity…MAINLY due to bad screenplay. You may still go on to like the flm for many other reasons but not the screenplay…then how do you expect the majority who go in to see the first screening come out and help generate mouth publicity? So the experiment fails again. In today’s times, STARS & BANNERS don’t sell…they do not guarantee anything…but an engaging / entertaining film does…whether it is BHEJA FRY or CHAK DE INDIA. So lets’ not lament the lack of Stars, marketing etc…
Off the cuff….Navdeep may have shot two women neighbours sitting on chairs in s symmetrical manner doesn’t go with the treatment he has given to rest of the film and so it doesn’t work…The script is unevenly spaced out…the 2nd half is extremely loaded like a jalebi with whole lot of twist aand turns and motivations and reasons..I suppose the film when intially edited was over 3hrs long and finally about 1 hr was editted out…maybe that affected the screenplay….but then Navdeep should have known whether he was making a 2 hour long film or 3 hour long..accordingly he should have writen the script. Why write something, shoot something, edit something which is finally not going to be there and thus screw up producer’s money or your own talent of story telling? [Navdeep please confirm whether your orignal edited length was over 3 hr long?]
[...] written..I feel for the guy! By: Pratim D. Gupta PFC Friday the 21st of September, 10am, INOX (Kolkata), I am sitting with five people sprinkled in [...]
To Each His Own!!!
Well i watched ‘Loins…’ in Hyderabad yesterday and almost everybody got up during the nation anthem scene.
I think the hall was 80% full and there was loud laughter throughout the movie. Even after the movie ended, i think the general feel about the movie was good. So I think such movies do have hope.
Still need to catch MSFU though. Hope it lasts another weekend…
Panini,
I replied to one of your comments on some other thread.
Cut/paste here:
And for everyone who complains that it’s not GREAT cinema: Of course it isn’t. It’s a movie. It’s not Felini, Bergman, Ray, Ghatak, Tarkovsky. I have no pretensions of greatness, nor am I in a position to ‘rescue’ Indian cinema. I’m just someone who tries to the best of his abilities, however limited they may be. Some people enjoy the result and for me, that’s reward enough.
It’s unfair to expect genius from everyone who steps outside the rigid bounds of the Bollywood format.
If the ‘backslapping’ tones and premature congratulations are getting your goat, then you may have a point but think of this phase as evolutionary. Hopefully, things will get better…
Thanks for the nice article. BTW another good film in recent times
which did not do well was “the Film” which was another semi-noirish film.
Navdeep
its almost hilarious that i see these lil faceless self proclaimed film maestors go after you, the way i see it is this is probably the only time a real life director will ever interact led alone answer thier rants as politely as u do
it reeks of a disgusting cowardly powerplay …all in poor taste
kudos to you for being so polite in handling thier pathetic narcissistic rants
if i was you i would have just told them to stick it up where the sun dont shine
Gabriel Garcia,
Philosophy 101. Never get angry. Use your opponents anger.
Works for martial arts too!
But Gabriel, you’re not him…you’re some Latino in LA, who has stumbled upon an ethnic film site, and are trying to pass yourself off as ‘one of the boys’ when in reality you’re probably on the verge of deportation..! Los Papeles corazon…?!
Watch that DUI muchacho..or La Migra will deport your ass back to Tijuana where it belongs.
123
iam actually pretty close to burbank
i dont wanna get racist keeping in etiquette the decorum of the forum
123,
You’re fibbing about being an editor aren’t you? That level of debate isn’t even ‘high school’. Didn’t get your fix of cow tipping this weekend? I Know a lovely ranch out Pamona way.
its getting nasty in here…cut it out ppl
123,
Seriously. Don’t do that to yourself, man, you make yourself look silly. You sound like a reasonably intelligent person, keep the conversation intelligent.
123
as far asm iam concerned uve lost all respect (watever little u had) in this forum, i suggest you do stick on as you make everyone else look good but do change ur id, coz no ones gonna take you serioulsy..ever
and also..get this people
he talks about noir and the pure cinema and maligns every1 with it
and then to give himself some grouding forces us to beleive hes cutting(actaully more like slaving over some1 else cut) a crappy “commercial” tv series and wat more he goes racist on the latinos who are the protagonist of the same series he claims to be working on
wow and i thought i’d seen em all LOL
I have not seen the film but what saddens me is the attendance in a hall in Kolkata as mentioned by Pratim. Kolkata was one of those cities where there was still a chance of an experimental film meeting some sort of success because of the appreciative nature of the audience.
Admin note …123…enough of it. stop it. or take your fight somehwere else.
it doesnt matter wether iam a desi, goan, or from the south of ecuador, uve done enough damage to urself
you’ve spoken , arugued made a fool out of yourself on a film you havent even seen, been racist, deceitful and overall the kind of schmuck u dont wanna be around with …wat else do i say
for ur own well being i hope this is only a facade that you create coz its online and virtual, i do hope your different in real life
god bless your soul amigo
ok admin….anyway it seems my favourite adversary ‘gabriel’ is in a worshipful mood, so why dont we all just sit down and sing hymns together..?
Admin..did u note his blatantly abusive comments to me over several posts…? So why not chastise this ethnically challenged character as well…?
123 and gabriel garcia, when you are commenting on a post, it should have some relevance to the topic, isn’t it? I was talking about the box office chances of a small but well-made film and you two are fighting over something else altogether. If for nothing else, please refrain from settling personal scores here for the sake of the topic. Thanks.
Admin note..123…stop it. Its not a court case. Or will have to block u.
THANKS admin, I really fuckin appreciate that…(seriously)
I know this is not a court case, but should Honhaar Goonda be allowed to verbally abuse someone else with no provocation? Shouldn’t the same rules apply to everyone in here? I dont know the guy from Adam and he came onto me like a pile of bricks..! You would have wanted to block me for the same behaviour, RIGHT?
But anyway…it’s a beginning…..at least you guys dont think I’m a COMPLETE fuckin criminal..!
Pratim — I think it’s the Cal audience that’s the problem… i don’t other metroes are doing that bad!!!!
“It
Night,
It’s the yoga.
Pratim,
Sorry to get distracted by all the flame wars but my comment on the post:
Sunday was better than Saturday, which was better than Friday. So… fingers crossed.
As far as getting audiences into the theatres for different fare, I think a paradigm shift is required in the way these films are distributed and marketed.
Navdeep,i agree with that comment that distribution, marketing & more importantly promotion of such films should be planned more elaborately.in my opinion the promos were not upto the mark.i liked the film. found it a tad slow but still liked it. i loved the cinematography of the film. was there a specific reason to pace the film like this?
Rony,
The promos were done by the producers, I had no control there.
The pacing was deliberate and supposed to reflect the small town-ness.
navdeep, the producers sometime dig their own graves when it comes to promoting their films. first they bring in a promo director to do the job and then start teaching him his job. frankly, i dont see any path breaking promos these days also i dont have much of a problem with the pacing but dont you think if the screenplay would have stayed focussed on the mystery element it would have found some more audience? i as an audience wanted to see the mystery unfold but there too many roadblocks in the screenplay.
You’re probably right. It was a bit of an experiment to see how a small town setting would impact a mystery.
It was a first film, lots of learning.
@Pratim… yes maybe it is depressing, when a good film does not get its due. But maybe we all are at fault. Like someone else pointed out… when one of the big budget films are released we are all ready to celebrate even if it is half as decent. Celebrate because it is moving towards better sensibility… and overlook a lot of flaws because anyway logic is not expected.
While something like MSFU is released we are all ready attack it, start mourning even before the film has a chance, why? Why does the success of a film like this have to have the same business module as
Navdeep,
You take it a wee bit personally. I have no issue with you. I have said it earlier that MSFU seems to me to have the energy and verve of a student diploma film but for the fact it is too long – almost gangly. Nowhere have I suggested that I’m miffed with you for failing to make it to the all-time GREATS of cinema. But PFC is, honestly speaking, hysterically loyal to the likes of AK Sirji and Navdeep Sirji.
Onir is wrong about none of Ritwik Ghatak’s films succeeding at the BO. His Meghe Dhaka Tara did reasonably well and he did manage to buy himself a Studebaker – a very fashionable car during the sixties. So its best to eschew unverified generalizations.
And yes, I like being faceless – you may interpret it as an act of cowardice – and I would like to protect my right to be so. I am not a filmmaker but reasonably well-read about the contemporary debates in the field of film studies. And yes, have seen more cinema than most on this forum. But that’s a bit like a maal-gaaDi carrying burden from one corener of the country to another.
Panini: Hey you reminded “Meghe Dhaka Tara” which always comes before us as an eternally wonderful film. Would you like to write a post on it? You have long cinematic viewing experience and you have got langauge to express your views, it would be good to read about this master work of Ritwik Ghatak. Please do write:)
Till now Ritwik Ghatak remains without proper discussion on PFC.
123, ABC and other readers.
—
Friends,
Its always better if discussion travells around the creation, films here, only and like any normal person or any other creative person film makers can also be attached to their creations so its not uncommon that un-ethical and biased forced criticism will not affect them. They too are humanbeing like any of us and rather more senstive than ordinary people.
PFC provides an opportunity of direct interaction between film maker and audience and we should enjoy this opportunity to the height.
Will any sensible filmmaker mind if s/he is getting proper critical analysis of her/his work as that constructive critical analysis ensures enrichment of their understanding about (1) what audience expect from them (2) what others found wrong or good in their films.
—-
If anyone is making any presentation before audience then everybody will be disturbed if audience start just attacking the speaker with less focus on the work but more on his arguments. Arguments are later things creative work is first and lets keep focus on creative works only.
debate for the sake of debate will lead nowhere except producing bitterness inside all the participants.
Rather than to trash a product, please tell what weaknesses you found in the film and where you found these. Such interaction will be proved as fruitful for both the sides, film makers as well as audiences.
—-
Please keep in mind this is happening first time that audience and film makers are interacting with each other so closely so mistakes can happen on both sides while presenting arguments. But Truth is we all are gathered here for our love for the Cinema. and discussion should remain associated with Cinema only.
Please dont spoil this historic opportunity just to satisfy momentary inflated ego.
Whoever visits PFC will not be able to live away happily from it for long, so why not to contribute to make it more better.
Try for its good health and erradicate any illness.
Without audience, films are of no use, but without film makers, we cant have films.
Lets respect both the sides.
@Pavan (Comment 3),
Thats very interesting tale you shared. Its nice to know that still audiences exist who watch films for the sake of films. In this era of heavy marketing they are true audience.
Time was there when Kalia, Satte Pe Satta were released without any prior advertisement and friday morning people saw posters of these films and both were instant hits. There were huge advertisement campaigns behind Yaron ke yaar and Shalimar but films were failed at box office.
Audience and their collective understanding should get some respect from producers, distributers and financers who actually control the film’s screening future.
One most important aspect according to me …is the pricing of tickets in Multiplexes…..There should be an cap on the ticket price…..If they keep the ticket prices for low budget movies like Manorama at around 40-50 bucks…casual movie goers will watch it…
The Govt should intervene and do something about the ticket prices….There should be an upper cap of 100 rs (Or whatever the optimal price is)….
I watched Pirates in Times Square and the ticket price there was $ 11….which when you take the ratio of average income/ticket cost is much much smaller than in India. Its just atrocious!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adding to the point—-checkout the ticket prices in Andhra. The most popular mulitplex Prasads charges anywhere between 60-100 bucks for a movie, which i much less than the overrated/under crowded multiplexes in Bombay/Ahmedabad etc.
This is also one of the reasons that People in Andhra are among the largest movie going audience in India.
@Pratim,taking your concern for box-office chances of smaller but well-made film and Onir’s opinion of marketing strategy and revenue stream for such a film together,there seems no compromise..Because if one is adopting an alternative revenue model like dvd rights/satellite rights then why one should bother about its box-office outcome..But ask any filmmaker worth his salt, he would crave to see the box-office cash counters tingle..All said and done theatrical release of a film is still a bench mark of films worth..And howsoever moron we think the audience is, or not cinematically literate,it has this uncanny ability to snuff out the winner..What Pavan Jha narrated has lots of sense and meaning..It reminds me of Al Ries and Jack Trout theory of Positioning..That battle is not out there to be won with spaces filled with promos or hoardings or billboards,jingles and roadshows(taking their theory in context of filmmaking)the battle is to be won in the minds of people..And let us brush this truth at the cost of our own vanity..There have been ample examples of movies backed with massive marketing blitz that have bitten the dust..why? Just because audiences could smell the turkey..And audiences have been magnanimous enough to shower its abundant appreciation on something that touched a cord somewhere somehow..From Sholay to Khosla Ka Ghosla our film pantheon is littered with examples of audiences intelligence..So it is not only with the filmmakers to declare their creations as wonderful, the endorsement has to come from so called uneducated,untrained,amateur audience..
Or go John Golt’s route and be happy to be applauded by the like-minded and leave the layman to his own idiosyncracies..
BTW,Saturday morning show at FameAdlabs(Mumbai) for MSFU got cancelled as there were not minimum number of viewers to run the show..My friend went ahead and saw LOP..She was disheartened..I have not seen it so i can’t comment on it personally..But i did watch MSFU on Sunday morning show and my comments are there in thani’s post on MSFU–Addendum & Review..
Still appreciate Navdeep for accomplishing a courageous debut..adb
Back to Pratim’s question, “Do you put Indian audiences in some machine and change the way they watch movies?”
What you are referring to isn’t unique to India. The same could be said here in the US for smaller and independent films. Over the years there is has been a shift in American film watching habits, and while the lines are becoming blurred between independent and studio films, the fact is that the good, smaller, independent, experimental films for the most part will not draw the crowds that the mediocre to bad Hollywood films will.
It takes time to grow an audience for these types of films. It isn’t a matter of education, but of word of mouth drawing viewers into a different type of viewing experience than they are used to, and of course independent filmmakers continuing to push the envelope to deliver intriguing stories to draw them into the theatre. These types of films will never have the audience the big blockbusters draw, but with time they will find their own audience, and their own supporters, and among those viewers will be those who once thought they would only enjoy a big-budget starrer…
So many comments to react to… this can get crazy… So I will pick the ones which have hit the nail on the head or tried to…
@Onir – I was talking about perceptions and that’s the whole point of the second film of first-time directors. You have to agree with me that the whole Indian film industry works on perceptions, public perceptions, media perceptions and, of course, industry perceptions. You have been noticed. People look at you as a “sensitive” director whatever be the box office fate of My Brother… Nikhil. Anurag is looked upon as some kind of “cinematic genius”, not just here on PFC but elsewhere as well, despite Black Friday’s unsatisfactory performance at the box office. And this is a perception created by the media and accepted by the industry and the junta. At least people will look forward to an Onir movie or an Anurag Kashyap film. But why can’t they go and watch that first film of yours just because they have no idea what you are capable of? How can we make the people see things a touch early?
Ritwick Ghatak was an experimental film-maker. He was trying to push the boundaries of the film language through his films. So it’s not surprising that his films didn’t get much of an audience upon release just like a Guru Dutt or an Orson Welles. But films like Manorama or Loins of Punjab are very much mainstream and people should go in just to have a good time. And that they aren’t.
@Aditi, Calcutta is not the problem. As Krysh said, Manorama show got cancelled in Mumbai because they didn’t have 5 people, the minimum attendance for a Fame screening.
i guess when a film like MSFU does not work at the box office its the producers and the marketing people who are to be blamed not the director. with good marketing even low budget films like bheja fry can create wonders at the box office
PINANI
WAY TO GO PINANI … WOULD LOVE TO HEAR SOME MORE…
It’s been taken off in Week 2 itself… So just a one week run in Calcutta, just like Bas Ek Pal. Didn’t get a chance to work on word of mouth…
hi pratim,
it’s wonderful to see first time directors getting so much attention here.
i saw LOPP yesterday at fame malad in bombay. it was a 9.30 am show and there were about 40 people. the response to the film was fantastic. the film was engaging and flowed seamlessly from start to finish. never a dull moment. everybody stood up in the national anthem scene and everybody applauded.
i went to see MSFU at fame andheri for the 9.50am show. the show got cancelled as i was the only one who turned up! luckily there was a 10.45 show at cinemax and 20 people had turned up. i enjoyed the movie but the last 20 minutes or so were painful to sit through. i missed vinay pathak in the second half and how i wish there was more of yana gupta. the mirage idea was superb. the film looked gorgeous and the actors did a wonderful job. a few cllege going types sitting next to me found the movie slow. a couple of my friends had the same prblem. i know the director has said the pacing was deliberate but maybe that has had an effect on its commercial prospects. I found the climax to be a letdown, all those explanations just went on and on. these are just my two bits. take it with a pinch of salt if you wish. but more power to navdeep and manish. looking forward to their second movie.
and yes, pratim, though i understand your cynicism i don’t share it. you need to cheer up
Yes Vinay, the ending is a problem as I mentioned in my review. It’s way too convoluted… But overall it’s a film worth watching for sure and doesn’t deserve to be taken off theatres while Dhol still gets 5 shows a day in Week Two. Quite deplorable…
Oh well, at least it got a second week here but the same crappy show times. Who sees a movie at 9.30 in the morning?
@Pratim… agrees with you to some extent. I know what you mean by perception… unfortunately be it Dor, MBN, Black Friday and Manorama they are not perceived as “mainstream, mainstream”… difficult to define. But I think somehow when you do not have big stars, dealing with a narrative and style little of course, it immediately gets categories as non mainstream…. it is easier for comedies to break the taboo.
But I can assure you…. i know that a lot of producers are talking about the Nav n Manish as people to look out for.
In terms of theatrical audience for me I agree to your “GLOOM’ theory. I do not really blame the promos. if the promos were slicker it would have created a wrong impression because the film has a languid pace, while I feel is required for the film … but it is a fact that today the audience is impatient( a catch 22 situation ). Today despite bad reviews, same formula… people flock for Partner and Hey Baby… and despite good reviews stay away from better films.
I think you are right… we do not have an audience which savors both kinds of films… at least enough of them…. once in a while an accident happens… and that is sad.
But these films will keep getting made because people watch them on other modes
Nav thats a problem when the distributors cannot hold on to the screen…. and wait for the word of mouth… it sucks
Man, I need to understand the business end of movies. You know much, Onir?
Dear Navdeep,
You are such a naive darling. PFC seems a highly unlikely forum “to understand the business end of movies”. This place seems to be crowded with faqirs and the Chekhovian eternal students.
Cheers!
And Panini-ji is, erm, app kya ho?! A Guru? Nah. So a Fuck-ir? Perhaps.
Don’t underestimate PFC. You’re here – so you’re one of us, mate.
Brilliant! This, unadulterated honhaari, takes my breath away! Absolutely!
- Cool it guys. No need to take cheap shots and label others. Things you would like to say can be said in a more humane ways. Speak forthright but just don’t turn it into a mindless war.
And Panini, I’ve invited you to become a PFC Author. Have yet to hear from you. Your knowledge and grip on the medium will help many of us here and will give you a unique voice of your own which is different from the rest of us on PFC.
Panini,
If anyone knows even an iota, it’s a shit load more than I know. I’ve tried to plumb producers on the subject but they don’t seem too willing to share any information.
@Navdeep,i really appreciate your thirst to learn about movie-business..This trait is remarkable in an otherwise arrogant,megalomaniac environment of Bollywood..
Navdeep, Honhaar seems to be the biggest ‘Fuck-ir’ around here, going by his constant and obnoxious verbal attacks on anyone who even remotely disagrees with the popular sentiment at pfc….and as far as calling someone ‘one of us’…not everyone who briefly drops into this site has dedicated their entire lives to it…like Honhaar seems to have. Go get yourself a life pal…!
Navdeep, re: the business end : small, edgy films like yours would greatly benefit by limited runs in boutique theatres in the U.S, who are actually thirsting for innovative foreign fare…and they’re not too hard to access…Not everything has to go through the Studio system or dedicated ‘Indian’ venues…
Why dont you talk to the ‘Vanaja’ guys and ask them to share their strategy, that’s probably closest to what you want to do..
best of luck!
@52
I guess this is an universal problem…there is a whole section of people who watch movies just for the fun element…just to give you an example…the other weekend I was at the public library in Albany, NY…i was at the checkout counter with 3 DVD’s in my hand – Mean Streets, Do the right thing & Face Off….
The american lady(early 30’s) at the check out counter glanced at the DVD’s and looked at the Face Off one and mentioned that this one is her favorite movie….which kept me thinking that the other 2 DVD’s on her desk were masterpieces but she was more interested in Face off….
so the scenario is like there is a whole section of people who like certain kind of movies….n probably their number is more than the other section….hence probably the distributors give these movies more runs than the others….
just my 2 cents….
@nav… i know a lil bit… not lots:). Trying to learn more. because making a film is one thing but giving it the right release is most important. otherwise all the effort is in vain. Learned a bit partly because i produced my first film and was also handling the production of the second.
presently trying to produce a film for a first time director… so learning a lot from what went right and what went wrong and hopefully the msiatkes lessen with the next.
@Panini, comment no. 7
“A premise which begins with Sarika and Raima is hardly a premise.”
Could you kindly elaborate. Thanks.
To Panini;
Sorry for this out of context question but are you Panini Pothaharvi from kafila.org?
Oz I’m in the midst of finishing my experiments and hope to be out of the lab in a week’s time. Though not a writer, I feel excited about making a debut here, in this carnival of a chakravyuh.
Anusha,
By way of response to your queries, two very ancient Chinese verses:
1. Grass is like a moral lesson, it is overflowing everywhere (Pash took his inspiration from this verse in his poem about dreams)
2. Let us get closer to fire so that we may see what we are saying.
Cheers!
panini // peek-a-buddha. the philosopher has one-upped the grammarian in you.
Kaisi viraani si viraani hai,
Dasht ko dekh ke ghar yaad aaya.
Let us hear more about Kamal Swarup and his masterpiece.
Panini, by the way, is also the name of a popular European sandwich, wb!
I would much rather speak about Mercedes Farriols’ – the Argentinian filmmaker – “Olga, Victoria Olga” or “Time without Time” especially as my teacher avers, with some justification I believe, that the Indian cinema has consistently refused to enter the domain of time.
Indian cinema or Hindi Cinema, Panini?
Do talk about Mercedes Farriols. Would love to hear.
i went to watch manorama at inox calcutta (9.40 show) on thursday evening … but when i reached ticket window… i realised i will b alone in that show …so i thought ill watch it next day …but on friday it was gone nd i missed it.
cant belive not even single threatres are screening it now
Everybody talks about word of mouth and good reviews. Who goes in to watch a movie after reading or watching a review?
i read uor review in telegraph..it prompted me to go to manorama .and even today i did with my morning tea. nd ill watch johhny gaddar tomm . i wont take any risk this time .
I will be the happiest person if people start going to movies after reading reviews… If you read lots of reviews of the same film and then watch that movie, you will realise that your point of view and likes/dislikes will match with at least one of the reviewers. And then ideally you should decide on your movie watches based on his or her reviews. As for Johnny Gaddaar, you won’t be disappointed Tuhina. Manorama, I guess, you have to wait for the DVD release or TV premiere…
Hi guys. Just read about you all in the sunday paper. This isn’t exactly any talk about any particualr movie, but i rarely go about watching a movie based on soemone’s review. What i do look for, first, whether this movie is a remake of soem hollywood movie( and sooner or later you discover it is). When i saw black i was speechless, until i learned that it was a remake of a hollywood film. Instead of compaling about it, i decided to fidn a solution and set up a website called www.fundooideas.com asking the big whole junta of bharat to come formward and contribute fresh stories for hollywood, bollywood TV etc, so that the idea draught in our film industry is over and we have movies that are either very intrinsically related to our context or cut across all boundaries of religon, language and unite the world in one common universal emotion.
Best of luck to you guys. And hope you will do your bit to add originality, texture and excitement to our and the world’s film industry!
today i thought about reasons y manorama didnt last at bo after 1 week. just trying to analyse it with the promos ive seen .as i guess im a proper mainstream cinema viewer(saw dhamaal & heybabby.. but missed manorama)
1) name of the movie .. manorama – six feet under. i guess it doesnt signify anything.. manorama .a name of magazine that too six feet under ..or maybe a girl named manorama buried 6 feet under..but with promos it didnt look like its a murder myestery . i guess its title shud hv been more forward .and more intresting ..simple and intresting.. manorama 6 feet under was a confusing name
2) abhay deol moustache and mole : i seriously like abhay ..ive seen his all three films and my friends also go ga ga over him.. but giving him that chacha chaudhary moustache + that chor kind of mole was not at all pleasent (sorry if im being rude .but im upset . and i guess any1 can say anything once they r angry). i agree that he was a middle age man in that movie.. but i think watever he is and whatever his age maybe he shud look pleasent and appealing. they r so many middle age guys around us .. even sherelock holmes didnt have moustache.. and that too touching his lips .. it didnt look hygenic and it repeled me
3)movie was a thriller but promos were not..in first look i thought it was a luv story. ..promos didnt suggested a proper theme..they were not a show stopper . even if it has an off beat theme it shud ve made its mark…….. like in dor promos.. ayesha takia wearing black in middle of desert without any makeup clearly gave me an idea its about a young widow.. but abhay deol in moustache and mole with 2 gals .it seemed more lik a luv triangle.. and after that the political angle in promos didnt excite me either but only confused me more.
4)there shud be more beautiful scenes :specially when if its not a comedy .in comedy one can put funny lines and wiered stuff..but if it is serious and dark it shud have a look of its own and that too beautiful ..like johnny gaddar.. ..its sharp and crisp and it shows in the red and black promos and catchy songs ..
anyways now there is nothing i can do but analyse as its gone from the threatres near me.. and i really wanna watch it..(after reading reviews) i am intrested in how this story unfolds .. and wat will happen to main characters….promos are really very importent coz most of us (including me) decide what to watch and wat not to watch by 1st promo . then i again filter them with reviws .and i guess that happens with evry mainstream cinema viewer. coz time and money are everything . and nobody stops and thinks how much effort and creativity has gone in a single film. viewers are forgiving if the some stars are there in film .but if its yung director that too with new actor and no intresting look in promo . tell me who will risk his time & money . as time is moving ppl are getting shallower and thats y commercial films are gettin more commercial. if only a young director has a strong voice and only if he says it loudly he gets noticed. anyways u all know much better than me .. but sincere reuest to all wannabe directors .. pls make nice movie without any loose plot and make nicer promos
luv & luk
tuhina
One way to popularize small art house low budget movies, is to create a government or nongovernment agency that works towards distributing these movies to single screen theatres nationwide. Somewhat like the old NFDC but with a distribution arm. Maybe the PFC network can take on the campaign. It could be membership based and self-financing. The film festivals just create an awareness among a very small elite class that prefers Holywood Cinema at the end of the day. You have to reach the general audience one way or another.
@ tuhina..i think its absolutely unfair to comment on Manorama SFU if you have not seen it.If you love mainstream then stick it..cause you may be dissapointed watching some thing non mainstream. the entite idea of movie subdivision is useless. Its a classic case of acuired taste.
@saurav . Luk my main point was to analyze y nobady went to threaters . Y all d seats were empty . No 1 wil knw how gud a movie is …if it vanishes in 1 week . .