Subrat, Ye jo public hai ye sab jaanti hai
PFC Janata,
This is just a reaction to Subrat’s Post on Janta’s Stupid Majorityism.. Taking a cue from a good performance by Indian Pugilists at the Olympics today, thought should try a punch in the air. Would love to see if my favorite author Subrat comes back with a harder one at me.. Being a voice from the “public”, I would not mind loosing the round to the “elitist”, but not without fighting…
Dear Subrat,
Just completed reading your post “Janata is King? Stupid Majorityism” on the PFC.. Sometimes I tend to avoid reading PFC posts due to heavy occupancies in running the company (keep them in queue for some furture free slot) , still you being one of my favorite writers on the site, how could I missed your post.. What I liked the most about the the content is that it compelled me to write a reply instantly.. and here is mine.. its more of a reaction to what you have written.. line by line, para by para.. I strongly believe that I represent Public and honestly I enjoy being on this side rather than being an elitist.. What I feel is though you shot the missile on target but it got heavily misaligned by the time it reached to destination..Let me ensure you that what you have written is not entirely wrong, but its misdirected and turned out to be an attempt to make a sidenote as a headline.
Rather than analysing what you’ve written, I’ll pose the questions to what you’ve written (after all I am public, with RTI in hand)
There is too much democracy all around us. The Janata is the Janardhan. The less talented singer wins the reality show; a government that, arguably, abetted crimes against humanity, wins a landslide at the hustings; a brain-dead comedy inspired from ‘Three Men and a Baby’ grosses over Rs 50 Crs and the Director goes around ridiculing his seniors; Ekta Kapoor continues to make regressive serials which top TRP ratings – all of these become legit because the great Janata has spoken in their favor. Janata or Public, that shapeless, faceless entity, at whose altars, pedestrian talent becomes precocious. Who are you to argue with the freakin’ Janata?
Lets take the point of Reality shows, Are you really sure that it is the Janata who really selects a winner.. Come on, at least you should be aware how many “reality” shows are fixed or manipulated.. One of my friend’s niece participated in one very popular reality show of last year, where the show makers were biased towards a couple of participants since the day show started and till the finals (deciding which song would be sung by which participant, the orchestra support, even the mind-games with participants etc).. and you would also know that I have also participated in one of the reality shows and seen “reality” from a much closer distance..
Let me confess, even being from public, I am not much interested in such reality shows.. Not even my ados-pados or relatives either.. There indeed was a “Novelty” factor a few years ago, but the poor quality of singers and mindless drama on stage(which everyone used to enjoy in the initial years) is the main reason the shows are no more taken interest (or as much interest) in. Another Important point that you’ve raised in the TRP.. Tell me honestly Do you really care of the TRPs ? Why you should.. but do Public really care for TRPs? Do you really think Public tags Ekta Kapoor’s serials as Classics.. And remember it is the same public who still has a place in memory for the old Doordarshan time and considers Hum Log, Buniyad, Bharat Ek Khoj, Mahabharat as classics (can check Doordarshan post and comments in the archives)..
At this point let me introduce a small phenomenon of “Timelessness” in a piece of art. The mediocrity can win for a short period of time but can not survive a longer time span. “Sorry I haven’t read many of the great writers so I am quoting it in my own words, but I am sure many of the great writers must have written about it.. You surely would be knowing”. And this being a single answer to your “stupid” question of “Is Pritam a greater artist than Pt. Ravishankar?”.. and I can easily answer No way.. Pt. Ravi Shankar’s piece of work has stayed firm with time and it has not only served the generation it was created for but also future generations.. Pritam could well be “more popular” at this moment, but does that make him a greater artist? I might have to review my answer only after 40-50 years, Only if Pritam’s work still stand tall then.. and I have full faith in Pritam’s capability that he would not give me a chance to review..
Take a case of one of the “most popular” program, “Binaca Geet Mala”.. It was “THE” program to decide the most popular numbers of the year.. Take a look at the list below and tell me do you still think they were the best in respective years? (Mind you they were the top most song of in each year)
1993 Choli Ke Peeche
1992 Maine Pyar Tumhi Se
1991 Dekha Hai Pehli Baar
1990 Gori Hai Kalaiyaan
1989 My Name Is Lakhan
1988 Papa Kehte Hain
1987 Chitthi Aayi Hai
1986 Yashoda Ka Nandlala
1985 Sun Sahiba Sun
1984 Tu Mera Hero Hai
1983 Shayad Meri Shaadi ka khyaal
1982 Angrezi Mein Kehte Hain
1981 Mere Angane Mein
1980 Dhafali wale
BTW is there any song from RD Burman in the list? and yes I could find a couple of songs from Nadeem Shravan (infact had Binaca running for long, they would surely have had more numbers in the list), but where are they now a days.
The artists who could serve to various generations are definitely greater artists. Infact some of the artists were way ahead of time so their creations were appreciated by “future generations”. Take the case of Mirza Ghalib, who was not considered a great poet when he lived, but one of the most read poets in last two centuries.
BTW I am very sure, if you have a poll on “greater artist”, Janata would always choose “Pt. Ravi Shankar” (and I dont include MBA’s and the Call Center Generation in Janata.. will come back to it later).. Dont underestimate the janata..
Now coming back to a more important point of yours
But this is what has happened to us as a society. People’s will or Janaadesh has replaced reason everywhere. There is a reason why a lot of institutions that work well are patently undemocratic.
I am sorry sir… In India, despite being a powerful word “Janaadesh” has no meanings.. The most undemocratic body of the country is the government.. They know “Public sab jaanati hai” and they always want public to remain illiterate and unspoken on national interests.. Tell me Why a Janaadesh is not seeked on Nuclear Treaty, Why a Janaadesh is not seeked on Reservations, Why a Janaadesh is not seeked on the price rise, Why a Janaadesh is not seeked on Corruption.. It is the fear of “Power of Public”.. and mind you, you too feared on including such significant issues in establishing your “Janaadesh concept”.. I am disappointed to see that your range of “janaadesh” is restricted to just SMS Polls and Reality Shows.. There is much more significant meaning in this word..
I can even talk on illogical questions posed by you like “Should Amitabh Bachchan become the President?”.. it would be a waste of time to discuss this at length, but I would say even the answer is “yes” whats wrong with that.. If you could see Mayawati or Lalu Prasad Yadav or some other politician can become a president, why cant he?
The last question is quite telling. If you leave it to the majority, they might actually vote against democracy! Dialectic and sound critique have important roles in the society
Sorry Sir.. Hum Janata politicians ko kitni hi gaali de, vote jaroor dete hain.. Even I have not missed a chance to vote, since I qualified to be a voter. Mostly it is the elitists who stay away from the voting.. Hum politicians ko gaali dete hain to wo democracy ko!
“So, as ‘Singh is King’ plays to packed houses”
Whats wrong with that, after all its a good news to industry.. The success of SiK will provide fuel to a lot of projects for sure… and mind you the same Janata has rejected Tashan, Tararumpum and liked Aamir, Khosla Ka Ghosla, Mithya at the same time…
Sajid Khan calls Riteish Deshmukh a superstar, or when TV channels have 10 year old kids dancing on reality shows, don’t be amused and kowtow to Janata Janardhan’s mandate.
Do you really believe that you or even anyone in Janata would believe on the above lines.. now thats really taking advantage of “being Subrat” 
but as an avid reader of your post, I am disappointed with these lines..
some questions to you…
First of all why the target of this post was on Indian Democracy? … Why you missed out or avoided “The Stupid Majorityism” of the world, that declares “The Dark Knight” as #1 on All time greatest lists.. Do you really think it is the best film ever made?.. Will it stay firm for next fifty years on the list of top most films like The Modern Times, The Bicycle Thief or even The Godfather had…
Now coming to another one.. do you really think its the Janata’s Janaadesh really counts in the end results or its just a manipulation of media and vested interests in most of the thing that “Janata” sees today.. Some shows like KBC in the initial age (that too only for a phenomenon called Mr Bachchan) did draw a significant amount of votes but sorry everybody else is just manipulating.. When the “reality shows” fails to find a talent, they put the task on the judges to find out some of the known ones (so that the show could really draw audience.. “the power of public”). The news channels gets only a dozen votes but they show in percentiles to project they are getting a lot of votes.. Its more “Projection” rather than reality..
For the Business, today the word “Janata” only signifies a bazaar.. For media they are just headcounts (or sms counts) being used to create a content unfortunately turns out to be a moderate opinion… For sponsors and business, it is just a big number of consumers.. The Janata really has no choice… Infact they are not left with many choices.. I remember interacting with a very senior official of a Music company when they communicated with me to get some rare recordings for an anthology collection, I did requested them to include atleast 7-8 rare songs (out of 50 odds songs), as you’d be including what you’ve been selling for years.. same thing again and again.. but they were interested in just one that too for “trivial purpose”.. and when I asked why not.. they said in songs ka “Market” nahin hai.. The same thing happened when they released a Kishore Kumar album (infact a compilation of rare songs of Kishore Kumar) with sort of PinUp girls, as they again thought Kishore Kumar can not sell on his own..
One of the biggest reason for this change (and downfall) is the CUT and PASTE generations (most of them is the crop of MBA’s from the field of MBA Dukaans (Barring a few real good institutions) and some from the Call Center generation).. Every new boy on the block or even a veteran professional is selling something.. Everything has become consumable.. even the music and films are consumable items these days.. have it, consume it, finish it, forget it, get ready for next dose.. The same esteemed company which used to have music passionate and enthusiasts are now having MBA’s as decision makers, who unfortunately are more interested in making money (read Short Term money) than creating good music that lasts forever… Nobody is interested in sowing a small plant and to have it serve future generations. The Cut and Paste generations is also using technology to a great advantage to show that they should be the decision makers and the older generation is of no use..
I was reading only today an interview of Lekh Tandon (veteran director of films like Professor, Aamrapali, Jhuk Gaya Aasman, agar Tum Na Hote, Dulhan wahi jo piya man bhaye, Ek baar kaho), where the interviewer asked “Kai hit film dene ke baad, Aap aajkal kewal doordarshan ke liye hi serials kyun banate hain, bahut se private channels hain aur films bhi(and meant productions houses)”.. He said “Main umra ke 80ve saal me chal raha hoon, aur filmo.n me kaam karte hue 60 saal se jyada ho gaye.. ab aise me kisi private channel ki 22-23 saal ki MBA ladaki mere paas aakar mujhe camera kaise pakadna chahiye, ki angle se shot lena chahiye ye samajhane lage to ab mera seekhna mushkil hai. doordarshan mujhe apne hisaab se kaam karne ki swatantrata deta hai.. doordarshan me TRP ke liye story badalne ka chalan bhi nahin hai islie mujhe doordarshan ke saath kaam karne me mazaa aata hai”
[Lekh Tandon was asked "after giving so many hit films, why are you directing only serials for Doordarshan" and he replied "I am running in my 80th year and have given more than 60 years to films and if today a 22-23 year old MBA girls from a private channel tells me how to hold the camera and teaches how should I take the shot, its a time to think I really want to do that?]
Anyway its getting too long and to cut short and summarize on the point I would like to make here
Fight it! The Janata is stupid. They deserve better. Only, they don’t know about it.
I agree they deserve better.. but its not that they dont know about it.. It is that they are deprived of it.. They not served the quality for the vested interest of the market. The business is more comfortable in keeping the public away from the real decision making still using the public as a decision support system. Some of the “could be” good representatives of the Janata, specially the educated ones, have decided to be a second grade Janata of some other country and Janata is definitely deprived of some good leaders and directors, who could take on with such forces.
But Subrat baabu, ye jo abhi bhi public hai ye sab jaanti hai.. just let them have “real power” to decide and you would know.. unfortunately it comes only once in five years..
I am not done as yet.. its just getting too long and hectic so stopped half way and taking a break.. I sometimes hits a punch to expect and enjoy a harder punch in return.. I know you surely can, may be you would not, but you should.. am waiting for the moment.. The game is on…
For the Public, By the Public…
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nice post..which reality show did u participate in btw?
Pavan: Thankfully, it’s the Indian pugilists who were doing well and you decided to emulate them and throw in a few punches. Ain’t I glad that the shooters and archers were having an off day?
The purpose of the posts is to involve readers, generate a debate and hear points and counterpoints from everyone. So, I am glad that you have responded with some specific retorts and a few, dare I say, trivialization of my points. But all in good spirit of challenging the views expressed.
Will respond to you in detail on Friday morning.
Why this fight guys?
Lets have a poll….
Thats democracy I guess…
I am a firm believer of the quote by Joseph Marie de Maistre “every country has the government it deserves”.
You defend the janata but it is the same janta which is inherently racist as displayed by their bias towards white skinned people ,the janata complains about hygiene and cleanliness but it is the same janta who spit on the roads and throw garbage on the streets ,this janta complains about law breakers but they are the first ones to jump a red signal when there is no traffic policeman around ,they want equality but won’t let their daughters marry a guy of lower caste ,want secularism but won’t go and embrace the people of another religion .
This is why I think some countries in the world are destined to be great ,inspite of being bulldozed to the ground repeatedly they have risen to pre-eminence time and again like a phoenix(eg japan and germany) ,yes there are intelligent sensible people in India , but they are a miniscule minority when compared to the mindless masses ,who are kept in a state of perpetual stupor on a heady cocktail of religion and caste.
You can call me a cynic but that’s the way it is.
I am not against democracy because it is much better than autocratic rule or communism but it certainly is not applicable to each and every aspect of society,and that’s exactly the reason why Supreme Court has been given the power of judicial review because our constitution makers were a smart bunch .They foresaw that it is possible that this very janata is capable of sending people to the parliament who would trample upon people’s fundamental rights in the name of democracy.
loved this post.. couldnt have got better defination than cut n paste generation for mba people.. though i m from d same gen but feel frustrated n humiliated by the thought process of my contemporaries..
it was nice to read a fan retorting back and after this i m for sure a fan of yours, Pavan..
The truth lies somewhere in between…
This is a country that recognizes and appreciates real talent(mostly)..but there are exceptions to the rule either way.
My heart aches to see that Mr. Ilayaraja, who arguably, has contributed the most to Tamil film music, is denied a Padmashree year after year.
My heart aches if I think about Sivaji Saab, when he was deinied the National Award till 1993.
My heart aches when the bid for MS Dhoni is more than Saurav Ganguly in IPL.
Just see the link in the above cases, the people who are responsible for this, are obviously not well informed. And that is the biggest risk of majorityism( I would not like to call it Democracy - it has far greater meaning)- ill-informed decisions.
I agree with you.You know I am in Riyadh and sometimes get to watch PTV serials.Their production values are poor but the stories are far better than Indian tv serials.No fifty camera angles,zoom,loud background music,designer clothes just simple pure storytelling much like what Doordarshan used to do in the 80’s.But I agree that people will not remember these serials and films which are made purely with business in mind.When we talk of Hindi films why is it that Hrishikesh Mukherjee,Basu Chatterjee,Yash Chopra,B.R Chopra are most loved even though during their times their films did not have earth shattering collections(they were hits but certainly got the biggest hits of the respective years).We love them because the films are timeless.They dont age.Dil Chahta hai was not a hit,it was just average when it was released.Same with R.D’s music even though in his time he just got two filmfare awards(Sanam teri Kasam and Masoom)and was denied awards for lots of films because,”they were not the biggest hit OF THAT YEAR”.So dont worry.If you do good work it will stay on regardless of what it achieves in the short term.
for me…this is the post of the month…………….
Strangely - I found this interview of the thamizh film director Sasikumar who made the current sensation subramanyapuram.
http://in.rediff.com/movies/2008/aug/12sasi.htm
He says that audience made masala films hit because - simply there is no choice and he has a point there. Film viewing is totally democratic - but the distribution adn making are hardly democratic processes - they are controlled by mafia like group who promote silly stuff.
@Anindya (7) :
Excatly,The greatness definitely needs to pass thru a test of time and cant be momentary..
@Anand (6) :
Even if the two artists Maestro Illaiyaraja or Shivaji saab never got an award like you said, did they lost recognition of their work in Public.. did not getting an award affected the greatness of their work (or even recognition of it) in Public..
@Jaignesh (9) :
I feel, in recent times the audience always makes a masala hits(read Hey Baby, SiK) film hit out of the frustrations of day to day life.. Nowadays It is the lack of Laughter in day to day moments that makes the audience to find some comfort/solace for some of the happier moments in life (consume the happiness for some moments and get back to fight the day to day situations within family, office/business, community, neighbourhood).. The screenings provide a ventilation of frustrations for the time being.. Its just like you consume a drink (or a drug) for soem comfort within..
@Subrat :
Its Friday Morning.. Happy Independence Day!
@Vineet (4) :
I am sorry your missile is misdirected..
“I am a firm believer of the quote by Joseph Marie de Maistre “every country has the government it deserves”.”
Oh really. The problem here is that even the educated people need to have some great quotes to follow it.. No harm or problem in that.. but when we have a home on fire, do you go to search a manual?
“You defend the janata but it is the same janta which is inherently racist as displayed by their bias towards white skinned people”
Let me think again.. Are you really sure what you want to convey? Out of the following whom you admire the most?
(no offenses to any names quoted)
Bob Christo or Amitabh Bachchan?
Madonna or Lata Mangeshkar?
Ian Bell or Mahendra Singh Dhoni?
Andy Roddick or Leander Paes?
and if you are speaking of unknown faces in the crowd (tourists), it is not only the colour of skin but the colour of money (specially in tourism industry).. and I agree there is a little “natural, ambient” bias towards white all over the world, thats why US of A never had a Black President till date. But more or less, I donot want to get into the skin game..
“the janata complains about hygiene and cleanliness but it is the same janta who spit on the roads and throw garbage on the streets,this janta complains about law breakers but they are the first ones to jump a red signal when there is no traffic policeman around ,they want equality but won’t let their daughters marry a guy of lower caste ,want secularism but won’t go and embrace the people of another religion”
Are you really sure the things are not changing with higher literacy level and specially do the youth of today really cares for caste or religion as much as the earlier generations used to do?.. It was the vested interest of politicians that they never wanted the Janata to get educated for the fear of loosing a vote bank..
as for the garbage and traffic problem, it is a matter of discipline (and again a question of education), The traffic education has to be a part of curriculam.. and also we need some good leaders for Janata.. (Example, you can observe, mostly a driver crosses line, when he sees no one “to follow” to stay back, but if there are people standing behind line, am sure even 9 out of 10 undisciplined drivers would stay back.. why blame Janata for this natural god gifted instinctive behaviour)
“This is why I think some countries in the world are destined to be great ,inspite of being bulldozed to the ground repeatedly they have risen to pre-eminence time and again like a phoenix(eg japan and germany) ,yes there are intelligent sensible people in India , but they are a miniscule minority when compared to the mindless masses ,who are kept in a state of perpetual stupor on a heady cocktail of religion and caste.”
Do you really think the mindless masses never want to comeout of the situation.. its only the vested interests of some that never wanted them to be.. and do you really think the intelligent sensible people are too not interested in sipping in the cocktail of reliogion and caste.
“exactly the reason why Supreme Court has been given the power of judicial review because our constitution makers were a smart bunch .They foresaw that it is possible that this very janata is capable of sending people to the parliament who would trample upon people’s fundamental rights in the name of democracy.”
As you have lost faith in democracy, I have lost faith in Judiciary.. but have faith in democracy and public.. give them education, discipline and some good leaders and see how things change..
Happy Independence Day!
@ 10 Pavan -
happy independence day.
“I feel, in recent times the audience always makes a masala hits(read Hey Baby, SiK) film hit out of the frustrations of day to day life.. Nowadays It is the lack of Laughter in day to day moments that makes the audience to find some comfort/solace for some of the happier moments in life (consume the happiness for some moments and get back to fight the day to day situations within family, office/business, community, neighbourhood)..”
This is from ur comment to VPJ. Do you believe that there is a qualitative or quantitative shift in day-to-day frustration as experienced by people today than say, 20-30 years ago? Hasn’t this always been the case. people are stressed and they look for escapist entertainment. what’s different today than yesterday? If anything, with greater economic opportunity for a larger percentage of the population, people have more means today.
Perhaps the answer may be that in the pre-lib days desire was kept in check due to limited means of production (socialism) and consumerism (individual spending power), so less stress? But that would not explain that huge blackhole we call the 80s.
Falak pakad ke utho,
aur hawa pakad ke chalo
Tum chalo, to Hindustan chale
Lagaao haath ke Suraj subah nikalaa kare.n
Hatheliyon me.n bhare Dhoop, aur uchhala kare.n
Ufaq pe paa.nv rakho,
aur chalo akaD ke chalo
Falak pakad ke utho
aur Hawa pakad ke chalo,
Tum chalo, to Hindustan chale!
http://www.indiapoised.com/song3.htm
http://www.indiapoised.com/video2.htm
Happy Independence Day once again!
Pavan,
Some points:
Reality shows were used as an illustration of how easily people relegate talent to a backseat and let other considerations take over. What the organizers do, in terms of mind games, isn’t of interest to me? The point is people have consistently shown in these shows that it doesn’t matter to the public who is actually better. You speak of the DD serials of the 80s! The people actually didn’t have a choice then. There was only one channel. Weren’t there good serials on DD between 2000-2005? There were. And what were people watching then? Saas-Bahu sagas. In fact, I’ll give you a different take of the 80s DD serials. People actually let go off other forms of entertainment like plays, music concerts and would queue up to see what happened to Abhinav Chaturvedi in Buniyaad. I remember a weekend where Tughlaq didn’t go houseful because of Buniyaad. So even in 80s people were abandoning the better quality product.
Timelessness is an important concept. But you seem to have muddled the examples I gave (in form of questions) to demonstrate people’s proclivities. Is Pritam better than Pt. Ravishankar is a rhetorical question. So don’t call it a stupid or illogical question of mine. The stupidity of those questions and my view of people’s reaction to those were deliberate.
But let me come back to timelessness. Time doesn’t deal greatness evenly. So for all your examples of Binaca Geet Mala, the truth is 30 years later some of those songs will be considered the best for those years. Mirza Ghalib example is actually the reverse. He was more popular in public and less popular with the elite or the aristocracy. That’s how his work survived. If timelessness as a concept worked evenly, then an Anil Biswas, C Ramachandra and Roshan would be on the same pedestal as Shankar Jaikishen. But they aren’t. For the majority, music of the 50s would mean S-J. And trust me, S-J would have more name recognition than Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Ustad Amir Khan. So, timelessness is important but doesn’t work evenly.
Your point on why Janaadesh isn’t sought on Nuclear Treaty, Reservation, Corruption et al. We have elected a parliament to take decisions on such issues. In a way, the people representing us are taking decisions on our behalf. That is the basis for representative democracy. And possibly the best form of political governance; a point that I have made many times in the post. The rest is demagogy of the kind that our politicians enjoy but mostly pointless.
I am not getting into your issues with MBA and Call Centre generation. I find it amusing that you think that public knows better but when the same public overwhelmingly wants to do any MBA from any institution or works in call centres, you ridicule them. May be you are being elitist there. If you accept that the public knows best, then the cut and paste generation is a manifestation of the public desire for those kinds of jobs. In fact, your Lekh Tandon example is quite revealing. The public has effectively shunted him out. If he wants to come back, then he has to bow to a 22 year old MBA who apparently understands the needs of Janata.
You start your post defending the public and by the end of it you’re on an anti-market rant. The market my friend is the public.
Lastly, my fundamental point was that democracy is the best form of political governance but the principles shouldn’t be extended to other fields. So this ‘five years’ business of public getting the real power is not my argument.
Happy Independence Day!
Subrat,
Good punch.. and great timing for the posts and responses…
“The point is people have consistently shown in these shows that it doesn’t matter to the public who is actually better.”
Doesn’t that translate into “The public dont take the competition seriously”.. because public jaanati hai ki mostly competition is not of the talents, but for new kids on the block, its more a of desire to be in the limelight If it finds out a talent, well and good but they are not expecting the show to give some good singers, actors, just momentary fun and enjoyment..
“That’s how his work survived. If timelessness as a concept worked evenly, then an Anil Biswas, C Ramachandra and Roshan would be on the same pedestal as Shankar Jaikishen. But they aren’t. For the majority, music of the 50s would mean S-J. And trust me, S-J would have more name recognition than Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Ustad Amir Khan”
Absolutely! I have never denied on the “popularity index” and SJ would surely remain more popular..
but please re read your question again
“Is Pritam a greater artist than Pt. Ravishankar?”
I would have had absolutely no problem if you had framed question as
“is Pritam a Popular artist than Pt. Ravi Shankar”?
and sorry sir, they hypothesis was yours, so the stupidity in the questions was entirely yours only.. If you have some authentic source of origination of the question, I would definitely apolozise..
As for DD in 80s, DD really had some great works at that time, what I liked the most is that public chose DD above Cinema as DD was more healtheir entertainment, nearer to the values and literature and the transition can not be termed as “escapism entertainment”.. People even had choices then.. The popularity of serials like Ek Kahani, Darpan, Katha Saagar, Mujarim Haazir, Chekhov Ki Khaaniyaa, Satyajit Ray Presents was as much as a Khaandaan or Barrister Vinod.Hum Log was really “Hum Log”, Buniyaad really was closer to Buniyaad which films of 80s failed to deliver..
I would like to term it as Middle of the Road walk… rahter than escaping to a corner..
“I remember a weekend where Tughlaq didn’t go houseful because of Buniyaad. So even in 80s people were abandoning the better quality product.”
Well, there is an interesting aspect to it.. It was not abandoning the better quality.. DD (and today all channels) are moslty considered as a free package.. I mean there is no “individualistic” cost involved in watching a TV Show or a channel.. you cant put a price on Saas bhi kabhi bahut hi.. Put a price and you’d know the fluctuations in TRPs..
another aspect is TV is a part of your daily meal while plays and cinema is like going out for a dinner.. but even if you have to pay at home for your daily meal, the scenario can change..
more soon..
“So for all your examples of Binaca Geet Mala, the truth is 30 years later some of those songs will be considered the best for those years.”
Not really.. could NOT be termed as the best, but popular most may be.. and Public know the difference in the two terms..
@dabba:
bang on.. will come to your points later…
Pavan: I’ll leave aside the explanation of rhetorical questions in my post.
Just another point: you find SIngh is King running to packed houses as good for the industry because people make money in the process for doing better stuff. But you have problem with people making money through call centre jobs!
ANd regarding ‘best’ vs ‘popular’, that was the whole point of my post. The best isn’t popular because the Janata is stupid.
“Tughlaq didn’t go houseful because of Buniyaad. So even in 80s people were abandoning the better quality product.So even in 80s people were abandoning the better quality product.”
Subrat,
You mean to say: Had there been no Buniyaad, people would have gone off to see Tughlaq.
Hmmm…How many people would have read a post written by someone else about Ghatak had you not written a post about Gomich?
If user acceptance is the benchmark for quality product, then on that particular day Buniyaad was the better product. But that can’t be true. Hence the logic that Tughlaq was not a product at all…or at least not a mass consumable product.
What you stated is actually a perception (a commonly held perception)that the two products eat into each others market. And all the while it can easily be argued that Tughlaq is catering to an entirely different and niche market.
On the other hand, one can rightly argue that for arts, user acceptance is never the benchmark for quality. Who can do a QA of Ghatak’s Nagrik? But I am sure a film like SIK undergoes QA.
Questioning a user’s prerogative or ability to choose between art and something utilitarian isn’t much of a question. Even questioning a person’s ability ( or inability )to differentiate between the two is not much of a question.
Public ka sab kuch jaan na zaroori nahi…public kay pass choice hona zaroori hai.
The best isn’t popular because the Janata is stupid
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Ye baat to bilkul sach hai. Lekin kuchh best log bhi popular hain, and full credits to the junta for that. Dono (pavan & Subrat ) khush ?
@ subrat… as u rightly said that democracy is the best form of political governance…with all its flaws…the merits are too many to many to compare with any other form of governance….
u think the janta is stupid coz it doesnt agree with u…
the janta doesnt make a lets say mithya as big as a hit as singh is kinng inspite of the former being a superior product..
SIK becomes a hit because it gives the audience what it expects…..and maybe mithya doesnt…
or maybe lets put it this way that mithya satisfies less number of people than SIK in terms of their expectations from a film……
now u could call the janta stupid coz their expectations are stupid……..
personally i dont think their expectations are stupid….
their expectations are their expectations just like yours are yours…as stupid as urs or as smart as urs….
the truth is that the for the majority of the people cinema is just a means of entertainment…something to distract them from their own daily chorus…..lets say to pass time..
whats so wrong about it…?…maybe not everyone out there is not passionate about cinema as much as we are at pfc…..they dont need to be …..they may have their own preferred passions which is their right….
unless ur passionate about something..u wont try to understand it…..and if u dont understand something …how do u correctly differentiate between the good and the bad…
people are bound to make mistakes due to lack of understanding…but for the medium they do understand ..i bet they make the correct choice………..
Yaar iss sab ke beech, can anyone please explain to me, a part of janta, what really constitutes the elite?
coz Ramchandra Guha would probably come under the elite for history/politics and someone like Baradwaj Rangan be amongst the janta in that… but Rangan would definately be amongst the elite when talking of movies… right?
So to say something like the ‘janta is stupid’ is probably jumping to conclusions… can we simply say janta isnt knowledgable enough…?
and i would agree to that…
if i dont read up well on the parties contesting in an election, and vote just for the sake of it… i would probably be a janta in that sense… if i dont care about classical music (for it doesnt appeal enough to my senses) and dont understand the difference between Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Ustad Amir Khan and probably prefer listening to Pritam/Vishal Bhardwaj than say Pt Ravi Shankar, it doesnt say i am stupid. as long as i understand that i am not the right person to comment on something as “Who is a better artist”, i think everything is fine.
Sorry.. the previous post went without a proof read please ignore that and read this!
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A point well made Pavan, but I disagree. You end up supporting what Subrat is saying in your post. You say the public does not have choices and plays into the hands of the media, business and market. There is some truth there. The media in connivance with the powers that be, can make paper tiger in a swoosh and the disembody them with another wave of the wand. Yet, the direction of all decisions, artistic esp. are dictated by public trends and behaviors. Do you think Ekta Kapoor’s saas-bahu serials would have worked if they had not caught the sudden regressive mood of the nation?
Numbers speak and majorityism always dilutes art. Even in the era, when the public had little choice and even in this era where the public is spoilt for choices.
Infact, I feel sometimes controlling atmospheres like communist states end up producing better art. As was evident from the grand Olympic opening ceremony and also from the artistic and cultural peak of the erstwhile USSR.
I agree with Subrat. Democracy hinders art. There will always be certain things that will appeal to lesser number of people and but still need nurturing because they aid the evolution of the human mind. In our global, capitalist setup, that will never happen. I have my doubts if this era will have much to contribute to the honor roll of timelessness 50 years later. Even then, we will still be obsessing over the Bimal Roys and Guru Dutts, I doubt we fill find another timeless icon after Amitabh Bachchan. We belong to the use and throw era, our entertainment is also of the same variety.
I agree with Subrat, the only place where ‘elitism’ is justified and is not a cuss word, is in the fields of learning and arts, because it is this elitism that makes you strive to breach the barriers.
Cheers
Ritu