The Film Writers’ Model Contract… ifs & buts
The most important thing that was discussed at the Indian Screenwriters Conference 08 was about the moolah. The only one session which was strictly business… no poetry, no clapping, no nothing. Everyone was actively participating… paapi pate & all that! I am not sure if this is the appropriate forum to discuss this subject here, cuz it is so specific to screenwriters. But I strongly think this will bring greater depth / insight into the remuneration aspect of cinema, across the board. My thoughts could be completely wrong & I would love to stand corrected. So then…
During the session, there was a manic attempt of people safegaurding personal interests (naturally). So much was spoken about… Intellectual property, indie films, small-budget films etc. At such gatherings being a smoker helps, but this time it was an eye-opener. When things got too heated up inside, I took a ciggy break. That was when I realized that there is a mini conference happenning outside the conference room too!
They were some people, usually seen in the premises of desi-banks. Old, sad, frustrated & opinionated. No offence. But they were there. They knew that the conference is just ball-talk. Nothing’s gonna happen outta this. They were the people who were (I am not sure, but I think) the guys of the industry federation. They had seen many a friday come & go & were so cool about it that to me what was happening inside the conference hall seemed frivolous.
They were dropping names of huge writers / producers saying that (with such people around) it will take a century or more to bring order into the functioning of the industry. I could almost draw a parallel with the functioning of the Indian Government. Same story. But I will not get into that now. So, the first time I heard that for writing story, screenplay & dialogues, there would be a minimum guarantee of earning Rs. 3 lakh per task (9 lakh total).
I felt it was funny. As per what was told is that this ‘Model Contract’ was made to protect the interests of the newbie writers. I couldnt stop imagining myself sitting across the table with some producer & saying “Sir, this is my first film & blah blah blah… these are my terms of working for the film.” I could hear a huge guffaw from the producer. Like Ravan. “You are asking for 9 lakhs? Whatte jokes!”
Another thought occured: This contract thing, if comes through, it will make the film industry the ’secluded cave’ that it was before. If, say, I am registered with the film writers assn., I should follow the rule & accept a minimum remuneration of 9 lakhs. Does this do any good to the people who are coming in with fresh ideas & money is definitely not right on top of the agenda. It is the passion which is creating this new wave, if I may call it that. This contract could be a deterrent to such creative ventures.
One thing which made the audience squirm was the flat 3 lakh per job (screenwriting, dialogue, story). A fat woman behind me said “Aise thodi hota hai… how can u generalize?” Even I felt the same, but kept my trap shut, cuz the calculations were done after months of brainstorming by people who have been dealing with such things for most of their lives. I kept shut then, but I would like to open this to filmis out here on PFC. Kya ye insaaf hai?
What I feel is that if such a rigid stance is taken, Indian cinema will be the biggest loser. The fresh talent that is seeping in from different walks of life will stay away becuz things might get messy. Remeber the Ravan laughter? I think the emphasis today should be on creating new storytellers rather than a Trade Union kinda outfit. Naarebaazi (sloganeering) hasn’t gotten us anywhere & the same will hold true in the future too.
I think the answer lies in the hands of individuals taking a stance. Like Abbas Tyrewala said “We need to respect our own selves & learn to say no and have the balls to stand by it.” The primary motive should (i think so) be to make a good film & not earn the 9lakh cheque. I think the writers assn. should open the doors so wide that even filling the registration forms become redundant. May be there should be some expo where periodically writers & producers meet at a ‘mandi’ & buy & sell stories. This, I think will be a good thing to happen to Indian cinema. I repeat, may be I am wrong, but the first thing to do is to initiate a dialogue. I am sure there are many learned & experienced people at PFC who can help find the right way.
Looking forward to hearing from one & all! And yes, stay filmi!
Tags: film writing remuneration, passion
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Very valid concerns, Magik. I’ve written a film for a British NRI. Before the contract was drawn up, I had a look at the fee structure for British writers according to the Writers Guild there
http://www.writersguild.org.uk/public/005_WritersGuil/index.html
They have different rates DEPENDING ON THE BUDGET of the film. I don’t know how far that’s applicable in India, but it makes sense.
Your idea about a script mandi is also a good one. Auctions are held for Indian books too nowadays. Script auctions have been around for quite some time in Hollywood.
I’m still new to the industry, but if even junior artistes can be unionised and get their rights, there’s no reason that writers can’t do the same.
Let’s have the views of senior writers here – the biggies of PFC.
Dear Struggling Writer,
This is exactly the problem that the struggling writers have been facing all this while – “How do I quote a price? Wait a minute, WHY should I even quote a price? I just need a break…the money will follow.”
Boss, aisa kuchh nahi hai. The biggest obstacle that a Bollywood screenwriter faces in the path of earning a decent sum is not the producer, it’s the writer himself. There’s a cheaper one out there at any given point of time. And then the Producer’s natural response – “Arey kya guru, pyaaz ka kya baarah rupaiyya hota hai kya, wo tumhaare baaju waala to dus mein de raha hai.”
The Model Contract is great. All it says is that it is the “minimum wage” – something that you need to pay the writer for the work that he puts in. If he can negotiate for more, great!
Sure, there is a certain randomness in the symmetry of the fgures (3 lacs each…dunno why you need months of discussions to come out with that), but at least it’s a start. And like most great thoughts, it’s simple.
The big question now – Will it work? NO. Simply because the struggling writer’s response would be – “Kya? Dus mein? Arey lo naa Producer saab, aap aath mein lo naa? Dhaniya patta bhi rakh lo, maalik…mirchaa chaahi?”
If you don’t want to help yourself, I guess no one can help you.
I think we need something like the WGA in US.. so as to have legitimate salaries and proper crediting.
I know unions and stuff mess up but Screenplay writers are a neglected breed in India… so we need a writers Guild in India too i mean a functioning one.
British and American film industries are organised and their transactions are transparent. 9 lakhs is the minimum writing budget any film must have. In a high budget film, the writing budget is much more. In a low budget film, the script is the star. So why not invest there?
Magik,
The game starts here…how about you telling a producer, “balls..you pay me 9 lakhs or I am not doing it…get it done by others but let me educate you,everyone will quote 9 lakh.” Think????
Secondly, Union is an umbrella organisation for fraternity…not some show-sa…narebazi…all the present EC members are quite active in business and making good money. But still we are fighting…because we went through exploitation…today i will easily get more than 9…but we felt the same and collected our self to see that others don’t suffer.
Thirdly, it all starts in mind. Writers succumb…you be the change stand…passion don’t give you food…neither it gave to ghalib nor to Shakespeare…so talk…negotiate (as all producer said)..demand…and remember all director like dearless writers. So fight.
It may take time…and for sure this will happen in consultation with producer but we all have to unite.
Regarding story, screenplay, dialogue amount…why don’t you guys do a debate amongst your writer friend and come to a conclusion that who’s more important. We all discussed this for 6 months and fought with each other and then given you guys the extracted juice.
If you guys wanna add…its still open…it has not been drafted finally…don’t discuss problem…don’t be cynical…come with solutions.
Sorry…i meant fearless and NOT DEARLESS…
I feel this initiative to pay whatever amount is well and fine..remember, there is just so much a writer can write…take any good writer, except maybe a stephen king….how many stories can they write in their lifetime? and if they are not given the moolah for it..how are they gonna earn? 9 lakhs is a decent amount..but it should also depend on the film budget i believe, eg a Lagaan writer should get more compared to a dasvidaniya, plus some sort of agreement shuld be made to share profits..but then all this is very reference based..the budget of the movie..gross earning vs net earning, etc..but i am happy atleast we are trying..
Nice write-up magik..as always
Story, screenplay and dialogues are lumped together here. I guess in our industry there is a situation that theoretically three different people may write those three elements.
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But a story could be 3 pages long even 300 pages (like in a novel). And dialogue writing might end up being only a translation work. So how is all this to be factored in…?
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3 lakhs each seems to be very simplistic number but I agree with the overall idea that writers need to be more organised and more demanding.
if i understand correctly, the 9 lakhs is a MINIMUM wage. you can and should be able to negotiate for more. tying the script remuneration to the production budget of the finished film is a bad idea, because it opens things up for exploitation. are you to delay your dues till they sort out the production budget? Does a producer pay more because the irfan khan starrer caught the interest of aamir khan and aamir now wants to be the lead?
Treasure a good screenplay, and determine its sale value based on projected finished film sales. more thoughts later.
I optioned a script recently for a dollar with the understanding being that if the film is made then the writer’s compensation would be 2.5% of the budget. That’s pretty standard for non superstar writers.
2.5% of the budget is solid for a newcomer..
Three lakhs is the MINIMUM for either story or screenplay or dialogues. You can negotiate for more… much more.
There’s no question about the fairness. As a screenplay writer you think you need more than the story guy, who’s taking a minimum of 3 lakhs? Go ahead, ask for more. Fair enough?
I do think that a certain minimum is necessary to counter the exploitative situation in the Industry today, specially in regard to writers.
Is 9 lakhs for a finished script too high for low budget films? For some kind of films, possibly – but given my experience in the Industry it is a fair enough figure that 99% of films made can afford.
True navdeep..so true..i guess writers need to come out of the self imposed restraint that..” this is my first film..let me get known first and then i can make money”..you know what? if that is the attitude, you willl never get paid sufficinet…comapre that to what Salim-Javed used to do..they would demand that their names be on the posters of the film.
I would like to thank all the people who are still engaged in debate about the contract, please feel free with your suggestions, comments and criticisms we will honestly consider them, react to them and incorporate them if possible
@dabba
The payment is going to be staggered. 15% on signing, 10% on approval of story, 15% on submission of first draft etc etc. According to the contract, the writer gets the last portion of his pay WITHIN A MONTH OF THE START OF SHOOTING.
@Mitch
That’s a great system. 2.5% is a good figure.
@D&C
The idea behind the 3 lakh minimum isn’t to cover all eventualities but to guard against exploitation. Individual cases will vary like hell and will depend a lot on the deal the writer negotiates for himself.
I am glad we are getting somewhere ahead. I take all points made by the seniors. lets keep the talk going and contribute to the think tanks at the film writers assn.
I strongly support the minimum wages concept for the following reasons:-
Living in city like Mumbai or anywhere else today is not cheap. The bare minimum cost would be around 20,000 rs. I am talking about living independently, in decent 1bhk flat in a suburb, surviving on dal-roti, travelling by bus n train.
Now see the time involved:-
How long do you think you will get a producer to sign you as a writer, may be few days to infinite time period.
How long will it take you to right it? few months to a year or may be few years.
How long will it take for a producer to start a film n complete it? few years atleast.
how long it will take for its realease? atleast a year
Now do you think you will be writing the story, screenplay n dialouges by yourself? most likely not. so most likely you will end up in either one or may be in 2 departments.
Now calculate the bare minimum epenses you have to shell out from your pocket for your survival so that the film gets made. you will notice it comes close to the minimum wage we are talking about.
If we do not have a minimum wage thing then the producer can easily exploit.
The no 1 reason being, does he really want to make this film if he is not paying you to right it. In today’s world producer does not pay for the film from his pocket. Most of the times it is the investor who pays. Now how does investor gets interested? most likely by the presence of a star. and how does a star get signed, most of the cases, coz of a strong script and in some cases on personal bond with a producer.
Now if someone writes for a producer/director without any money, how do you know, a producer/director is serious about making it or he is just trying another script out of another dozen he has in his hand, which would get him a star and funding.
The most important reason being the producer/director will move to the next available cheap writer.
Do you want to be hired coz you can write for cheap or for your writing?
The other thing about low budget film making is that the film maker will have to multitask. He will have to head different departments himself. One simply does not have options for a small budget film. In short director will have to write it.
People want to make films in extreme low budget, but without taking the burden of heading other departments. A director invariably will have to atleast write himself if he is so passionate about making a low budget film.
Everybody wants to be Robert Rodrigues, but forget he heads all departments writing, directing, editing, cinematography and even sound himself.
The minimum wage concept is good when a producer or rather investor approves of the story and is willing to fund the project in multi-crores. A beginner finding such a project is a dream situation. For any lower budget, say upto 1 crore, 9 lacs is hefty 9%, so here, writer then has to be the producer, director, editor, cinemtaographer etc… as Manjeet said. We want to hear more from Navdeep…
I am sorry, but I thoroughly, thoroughly disagree. I was at the conference too and I couldn’t believe that people are actually fighting to LOWER the minimum wages bar! Its unbelievable!!! I mean, what??
The concept of basic wages it to PROTECT. Protect new writers from getting exploited. Agreed, if you are a new writer, your primary concern is getting the film made and not getting the 9 lac paycheck. But what’s the harm if you do? What’s wrong in earning? What’s wrong in getting your worth? Don’t you also want to make money alongwith writing? Or like someone said at the conference, do we want to keep romanticising struggle and make it sound like an exciting journey of woes?
Once this becomes a norm, the industry has no choice but to co-operate. Producers will pay and writers will need to roll up their sleeves to show they are worth the 9 lac. it’s intention is to have a healthy partnership to make better films. I see nothing wrong in that. Maybe some writers will write one good film for 9 lacs rather than 5 bad ones for 1 lac each. Each association should have minimum wages. Of course, you can still write for 50,000. Great! Spoil the standards for yourself!
And you are forgetting that this is a PROPOSAL. There are high chances that it wont go through the Producers Association. They need to agree on this minimum wages, which they will definitely find high. There are high chances that the 9 lac becomes 4 lac. Then?? Maybe all of us can smoke another ciggy and cheer for the poor writer who writes only for passion..
I think this is being made too complicated than it needs to be.
One. Define the various elements first. Now this being Mumbai… there “may” be three different kinds of writers for the same movie.
Story Writer. Script Writer. Dialogue Writer.
Two. Define the Minimum for each.
Three. The minimum for each STANDS irrespective if the same person performs all the three jobs.
Four. I think 80% of the agreed amount should be at the writers’ end by the time the first draft is handed over. I have not heard much about writers receiving the balance amount ‘after’ the production of the movie starts.
Five. Stick to it. If a producer or a team is making an extremely low budget movie, opt for an out of union writer. But ‘BENCHMARK’ what a low budget will be. I believe the Union needs to define this. If anything below 50lacs (for example) is now defined by the union as low budget, the producers now have the option of taking a non-union writer.
The objective is to simplify and ease the life of both the writer and the producer. But then I start thinking “will putting a minimum slab actually work in Mumbai?” cause people “will” find ways around it – those who don’t want to shell out the minimum and those who are desperate (genuine or not) to get “any” amount.
For minimums and such conditions to work, Writers’ first of all need a Union. The conditions then apply. If a movie breaches such primary conditions (did not pay minimum etc. etc.) its release is blocked by the Writers Union, that is based on a pre condition or agreement between the writers and producers union
Hey dude..i was waiting for this day whn my favourite OZ bhai (Second being you..SAD BUT TRUE) is commenting on ur post. Thanks oz bhai, for making this true…
Infact Magik only introduced me to DT and PFC…and now i dont miss a single post on both.
Magik…good and sensible posts…good to see u r now frequent on PFC and yet keeping each post better thn the last one. Keep it up
~ Ashu Bhai MAPRM Wale
Oz, almost the points/issues you have mentioned have being taken care of. Thats how much work Anjum Rajaballi and his team has put it in to get it together! Anything you can think of is taken care of.
This post is dedicated to just one issue of minimum payment in the contract.
Once the contract is finalized,and it goes through, Anjum is gonna let us know and may be he will have a separate post for the contract!
PROTECTION ANYONE?
In the middle of the 19th century, Richard Wagner would have been a rich man. As his biographer Ernest Newman pointed out, it was the system that made him a beggar – and then condemned him for being a debtor.
One of the reasons why Wagner – and every other composer – was so keen to make a name in Paris was that legislation introduced during the French Revolution had given France the best intellectual property rights in Europe, and consequently the continent’s most vibrant musical culture.
From
http://www.newstatesman.com/music/2008/12/public-century-composers
I agree with the following ideas proposed:
Minimum wage w/ a negotiable higher wage
Wage as a percentage of the budget
Payment to be paid upon receival of the first draft
Writers should also be rewarded for their good work. So if the movie he has written does well, he should get a bonus payment (maybe 10% of his fee if it’s above average, 25% more if hit, 50% if superhit). Likewise, he should be responsible when the film does not do well. If it’s below average, maybe return 25% of his fee. If it’s a disaster, maybe return 50% of his fee.
How about keeping some money for royalty – or is that too early to talk about? How will the system work when more than one person works on the story, screenplay and dialogues? Go Dutch on the fees?
dear folks,
i like the seemingly innocuous, jestful remark made by saket choudhary – intellectual property rights.
if we at all manage to all come together, every single writer together, we can demand anything.
most important is ipr. i believe that if salim-javed should be paid every time someone uses their characters in tv reality show, on stage, etc. if a chak de template is used in an ad or its commercially exploited as a brand name, the revenue should come to jaideep sahni.
its very important to fix the minimum rate and create a recovery mechanism but also getting ownership of our creations will decide if a salim-javed have a chance to earn like jk rowling.
i do not know if my suggestions make any sense.
look at yrf films site, in one section they have mentioned how they need to be paid if we are using their property – that property needs to be owned by us.
tarun(too many words at my maiden posting on pfc)
hi guys and saket,
though a writer myself, and since i didnt attend the conference, this model contract and minimum wages that has been worked out… has it been approved by the producers association?
because 3 lakhs per task is a fair amount for a first timer but i wonder how many producers would be willing to fork out that much?? especially to a first timer…
in our industry, the general view is that is a producer signs a first time writer, he is doing him a favor by giving him a break… will he then agree to pay him 3 lakhs per task??
Mr mukesh bhatt will not i think…
YRF will not i think…
and a lot of other producers will not!!!
so this contract will become a joke if not formaly accepted and approved by producer associations like IMPPA…
Hope this 9 lakh minimum wage becomes a reality.
Auctioning of good scripts to the highest bidder is a great idea. A panel of established writers can select a bunch of scripts every 3 months and put them up for auction attended by production house representatives and directors. This way good scripts can be pushed into our industry. A little bit of hype for the auction on forums like these would also help.
Is this minimum amount provided the story/screenplay/dialogues are accepted ? If it is so, I dont see why the minimum amount should not apply. Obviously if accepted, then it is like any contract in any industry. It is like working with a plumber. Once the work is done to your satisfaction, you pay. How does it matter if it is a beginner writer or an established one ? Talk about exploitation…
I’m sorry to bring it up here but I saw a comment by Mr. NAVDEEP SINGH who says 3 lakhs should be a minimum payment for screeplay writers.
With people like him around-who needs writers?
The talented Mr. Ripley (A.K.A-Navdeep Singh) -had the audacity to totally rip of Robert Towne’s 1974 classic-CHINATOWN(11 academy nominations) screenplay for his MANORAMA and then had the audacity to blow his own trumphet, take a bow etc on PFC-post links to his screenplay and what not.
Further, when I mentioned the same on his Blog-he deleted my comment and banned me from further comments on his Blog page.
With film-makers like him around-Who needs Screenplay writers? Apparently- (refer his blog)he had the screenplay of MANORAMA written while still in LA-and couldnt wait to get to india to film it. He was also thinking of someone much older than Abhay Deol(Jack nicholson maybe?)-to start with.
HA HA HA HA HA
Ranjeet, ‘Chinatown’ quite different from ‘Manorama’…Navdeep actually did a brilliant job in Manorama..even the scene in which he pays tribute to his inspiration, as Abhay watches the Nicholson classic…
@Ranjeet…. Man, you seem to be secretly in love with me
1. I can’t/don’t know how to delete comments or block people. Stop being paranoid.
2. You think Manorama was a rip off – you’re not the first to say it. Fair enough.
3. What’s the problem with a MINIMUM of 3 lakhs?
4. Read the blog again – you’ve got your sequence of events wrong. I ‘ripped off’ Chinatown long after coming back to Bombay.
5. What’s so funny?
“Man, you seem to be secretly in love with me ”
:D
Magik
“A fat woman behind me said “Aise thodi hota hai… how can u generalize?””
We don’t need to know if the lady is fat or not.
Let me get this clear Magik.
You think minimum wage = generalizing everyone?
You disagree with any minimum wage?
@ Mainak: in the very first para i have given a disclaimer – “My thoughts could be completely wrong & I would love to stand corrected.” I am still learning yaar. very bad with rs. & ps.
And btw sorry abt the fat woman. just ignore.
Yaar i don’t understand any of you.For me a film truly belongs to a writer. The whole film goes first into the mind of the writer & then in the screen. And this industry is giving such credit like the writers are ready sale their creativity that they are ready to sell it for any amount. All I had heard that Some producers even give a crore for a Film. What’s the true picture their please let me know? I have written 4 scripts and i don’t want to bargain for money with producers. Major problem is, i have never been to Mumbai & i donno how things exactly goes over their.
@ Abhijeet: The problem with most of us writers is that we do not know our exact worth, neither is there any benchmark. So till the time our pen finds its voice, exploitation keeps happennig. And yes, IMO even if you are being paid 9 lakh minimum guarantee, your writing skills are not tangible. It could be worth crores. So my personal suggestion to you is that hang in there… write… keep writing. And foremost important is get your scripts registered with the Film Writers Assn., Mumbai. Baaki you will have to ‘bol bachan’ your way through the industry. Unfortunately ‘real skill’ (in our case writing) is secondary. what is primary is how well do you sell your stuff. Do remember that a break-through for a filmi career is mostly LUCK BY CHANCE. Best of lucks buddy!
@Magik:Sir No Doubt you are filmi. Sir why don’t u guys just do that u narrate the whole script with complete screenplay to the production house like UTV,WB etc. & just say them I wudn’t charge anything if given the right to direct it as it’s a fact that a writer only understands the film better than anyone else. I think this the way many have become filmmakers. I think Neeraj Pandey did it, Raj kumar Gupta did it. And i too am going through the same plan. Is this plan correct or here too some big loop holes exists?
@ Abhijeet: bro u r embarassing me by calling me ‘Sir’. I am in the same boat as you are. I am in no situation to advice / guide you. But hey the point u r making sounds worthwhile to me too! thanks for that! ;-) Shall we wait for some seasoned writer to guide us on this. i m sure there must be someone around here @ PCF to take it from here.
Rather than asking blanket rate 9 lakh, ask for 1 lakh upfront & say 0.1% of movie profits if the movie works. If it works, you get much more than this 9 lakh. If it fails, your writing didn’t help anyway, so take your 1 lakh & shove off.
That’s what I’d expect if I hire a dialogue writer for my script. Thing is, ye literature nahi hai. I cannot print your screenplay and dialogues & sell it in bookstore & recover my money. The only use of your writing is to make the movie. If the movie didn’t work, then how do I recover the money I give you ? If you say I don’t care gimme my 9lakhs anyways, well I’ll say I also don’t care, writers are dime a dozen.
So come up with something workable first.
Also please don’t give me this BS about living in Bombay for 20k a month. I can hire somebody from UP & he’ll crank out better dialogues sitting on his khatiya in the middle of azamgadh than you sipping your barista. I’m not responsible for supporting your 20k per month mumbaiyya lifestyle, I’m taking risks too making a movie you know.
@Magik: Sir i’m not embarassing u ’cause i’m just 22 and i think u all must be 35+. So instead of calling Uncle, i preferred calling you Sir. Secondly it’s my plan for it with which i’ll be shooting for Mumbai. I just want to know Which all production house really just listen to scripts & which else have just taken the oath of following the big names & brands ?
@NRI
You seem to be doing a great service to mankind by making a film. Good luck, man. Why only writers, I think you shouldn’t pay anybody at all. Let them spend time and sweat on your film because time and sweat don’t cost any money – they’re free for everybody. Don’t bother with sharing profits too, if they have worked for free then they are not deserving of your money in the first place. Show these people their actual place! Asking for money just for writing some two-bit dialogues! Ridiculous! How dare they!
NRI, I am proud of people like you living in foreign country but still not compromising with their creativity in front of these greedy writer types. We need more people like you, Shaabash!
deven,
My whole point is that nobody is doing social service here. Besides me, I know of 4 other colleagues here in USA. All 5 of us made some chota-mota rakam in software, then went to India to make indie films, which for various reasons did not work ie. didn’t get distribution. All 5 are back here now, & all are in a deep fiscal hole to the tune of -200K or more each. We all had a script, we only hired dialogue writers to get local flavor, & if you ask the ppl we hired, they’ll tell you frankly we were one of the few ppl who actually paid hard cash upfront instead of cheques that bounced. In fact everybody got their cash – the writers, actors, food service, properties, lightmen, editor, and the only loss was to us who were stupid enough to take the risk without figuring out the distribution logistics. So before shooting your mouth off, pls understand the ground realities. Why writers, I can tell you horror stories about actors that will shock you. I hired a bunch of strugglers for my film. One of them was the cricket captain in Iqbal. He said for his 10 days shoot in Iqbal he got breakfast, lunch & dinner. Thats it! Not one dime in cash. Things are quite bad back in desh, but nobody talks about these things because you just look at star salaries & extrapolate down from there & think everybody is making lakhs & crores in movies. Another struggler I hired has now become an LIC life insurance policy agent! Why ? Because in south, that’s how it is – unless ther movie works & you become establiashed enough, they don’t really pay you. You just get food & lodging for shoot. So how is he supposed to make a living ? Even the first actor has quit acting & become a radio DJ. Itni mushkil mein if you say give me blanket 9 lakh or I won’t write then you will have zero opportunity. Better to understand the difficulties of indie producers as well & work out some profit sharing partnership with them like I suggested. First let the film get distribution & work with audience & take in money, then everybody can ask for lakhs & crores. Beforehand you want 9 lakhs, for what exactly ? If you are already established writer, then clearly you are making 30-40 lakhs anyway. If you are a nobody then 1 lakh is itself big amount. Understand that just like ppl can talk of 20k mumbaiyya lifestyle, we can also buy million dollar penthouses here in USA on credit, instead we save every penny with some crazy dream to make an indie & instead we get shafted. I’m the last person you should be yelling at.
Which movie did you guys make?
arre Kenny, movie is a movie only if it is distributed. otherwise it is just a piece of shit lying in the film can. right now i have made a piece of shit & my friends too, so no point talking about that shit. I’m just saying this 9 lakh minimum etc doesn’t sound workable to me.
Just because a movie hasn’t been released doesn’t mean it’s shit; it doesn’t mean it’s great, either. But at least tell us the name of your movie so we can look it up.
The 9 lakh issue is a separate one. Regardless of the absolute numbers, there shouldn’t be any problem paying the writer at least 2-3% of the film’s budget. But people wiser than me are working on this.
heh heh, looking up something that go no distribution
well, forget about that, lets talk about the issue here.
is tarah union banake 9lakh minimum wage impose karoge to kisi ko kaam nahi milega. If you’re already a bigshot writer, none of this applies to you since your territory > 30-40 lakhs. If you are a beginner, clearly 9lakh is too much. You first work for 1 lakh or even less ie. whatever the producer can afford. then if movie works, you take a cut, whether that is 1% or less is between you & producer. To have hard & fast rules, aisa thodi hota hai. You really have to look at it case by case. I agree with the fat woman.
“We all had a script, we only hired dialogue writers to get local flavor”
“If it works, you get much more than this 9 lakh. If it fails, your writing didn’t help anyway, so take your 1 lakh & shove off.
That’s what I’d expect if I hire a dialogue writer for my script”
I’m just curious. Does the term ‘writer’ for you mean only a dialog writer? Since you say you all already had scripts.
Kenny, me & the 4 ppl I spoke about, we all went to film pgms here. So lets take one of my friends C – he went to film pgm in Chicago, then wrote his story & screenplay. Obviously he wrote everything in English. Now he went to Keral and hired 1 mallu schoolteacher for 70k Rs to write dialogues in mallu, since he has been in USA for >10 years, so out of touch with spoken mallu, local customs etc. That schoolteacher did good job. 70K was like 10 times what that schoolteacher would make teaching in high school, so for him it was a huge reward. Then movie got made, no distrib, he got some airagaira regional awards which didn’t help the finances. Last I heard he started some software consultancy in chicago & has swore off films for life! My case is somewhat similar though I still love the industry & hope to get back in at first chance. A third person made a “Cannes-only movie” (!!!!) , which went neither to Cannes nor to neighborhood theatre. It just went nowhere, so he lost all interest & is now roaming around south India. All sob stories, no point discussing this, it will only discourage newcomers. I don’t think writer means a fixed thing – if you have the concept/premise, the writer can help you flesh it out & imbue local flavor. If you have the story rights like one of my friends has purchased a novel rights, now he is looking for basically a translator,somebody who will translate the novel to a south screenplay, then that is what writer means for him. There is no fixed definition, hence no fixed prices also.
“he went to film pgm in Chicago, then wrote his story & screenplay…Now he went to Keral and hired 1 mallu schoolteacher for 70k Rs to write dialogues in mallu”
So whose fault is it that the film didn’t get distributed? Your friend who wrote the story and screenplay or the schoolteacher’s?
And how does that square with this: “If it fails, your writing didn’t help anyway, so take your 1 lakh & shove off.” Since the schoolteacher only translated the dialog, would you blame him?
“If you have the story rights like one of my friends has purchased a novel rights, now he is looking for basically a translator,somebody who will translate the novel to a south screenplay”
A novel does not get ‘translated’ into a screenplay. Simply translating it doesn’t make it a screenplay. ‘Adapting’ it results in a screenplay.
“I don’t think writer means a fixed thing – if you have the concept/premise, the writer can help you flesh it out & imbue local flavor.”
I’m sorry, but this is far too vague. I may be misinterpreting your comments, but I get the feeling you don’t really know what a writer brings to the table when a film’s being made.
And finally, if you could just name the movies your and your friends made, I’m sure someone in PFC’s circles who works in the South film industry will definitely have at least heard about your films, and we can discuss who to blame – the story & screenplay writer or the dialog writer or someone else
@NRI
Was I yelling at you? I didn’t hear a thing.
Regarding dialogue writers, if they are only doing dialogues, then you are supposed to pay them 3 lakh minimum, not 9 lakh (according to the proposed Model contract).
If you are getting your work done in just Rs 70,000, then you are exploiting the writer. Period.
Living in America and going to film school, you must have heard of Writers’ Guild of America (WGA). WGA deems it mandatory that there is a MINIMUM basic wage the writers have to be paid. You can’t get around that there. It’s only here in India, where the rules are lax and sab-chalta-hai, that you throw 1400 dollars at a writer and then have the gall to proclaim on a public forum that “If you are a nobody then 1 lakh is itself big amount”.
Don’t you see it man? It’s as clear as day! Your whole attitude reeks of arrogance, of masters throwing alms at roadside beggars. Writers to you are not beings of imagination but toothpastes ready to be squeezed dry (and available in two flavours: ’somebody’ and ‘nobody’). I am not surprised that your film is rotting in the cans.
NRI,
I am sure you have upstanding ethics and morals.
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In this day of arthur andersen, satyam, and Madoff, i hope you will pardon the cynicism of the struggler when it comes to seeing a rupee from “profits”. We all know how books can be balanced, or not kept in the first place.
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Payment for writers/scripts is always a step deal, where you see the story, first draft, and final draft, and pay as you go along. If you lack the skills as a filmmaker to judge what script is good, who is to blame?
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If you take even an average screenplay, and shoot everything out of focus or with poor lighting, or terrible acting, why blame the script. The reason for your shit film not getting distribution could be numerous. Man up, and take the heat for a poorly made film.
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If you have the conviction that you have made a great film, shout it out, get it out there, PFC will spread the word on your indie film.
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Chances are, you took a film course, learned the basics of using a camera, had this great script (in your mind), which only lacked regional flavor, and chased a dream with your personal savings. I admire that.
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But don’t go crying home to mama cos ur film didn’t get distributed. Did you make a good film?
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Pull yourself back together, recover from your loss, and if the dream still persists, make another film, with a better script, better direction, better actors, and overall, better filmmaking. Still better if you can figure out distribution before you sink the money.
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It’s a dream for you. Why should the writer or director or anyone else share the risk of your dream? If your dream is so grand that everyone wants to be a part of it, money will not be an issue. Don’t hate on people for wanting to make a wage. Just like how you can’t publish the script like a novel to recover your monies, you can’t film an idea either.
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Your idea means nothing, if it is not executed. And if you want it well executed, hire a professional, be it for screenplay, direction, editing, music and what not. And pay the professionals for doing their job.
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Do you disagree with the concept of minimum wage? Or is it minimum wage for writing that irks you? If you don’t like someone’s work, don’t hire them. If you can’t recognize good from bad, and what works with your sensibility, you should study a little more before chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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When you are ready to make your next film, come back here. If you have a great idea, and I can ascertain that you know how to execute a film, I will write your script with dialogue and regional flavor. It will take me 12 weeks cos I don’t hack it out.
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We can sign a contract where you pay 1 lakh upfront ($2000), and the rest as backend points (to be negotiated). Not on profit, but on gross sales across all media. Theatrical, internet, cable, and every possible revenue generating avenue.
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I can afford a lawyer to write that contract. I’m sure this is agreeable to you, so what if the lawyer fees run into a few lakhs. But you will have to hire another lawyer to make sure I’m not shafting you. Perhaps there’s a clause in there that signs over your firstborn to me as well. The first one is the hardest to part with.
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Where does that leave us?
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Pay the damn minimum wage or bypass it and write your own great script with great dialogue.
thanks dabba. lambiiiiiiiiiiii khamoshi.
NRI, when you are hiring a writer, you are not buying vegetables…You are hiring him for his skills and definitely see his work before hiring him…you can not use writer’s ‘khandha apni bandhook chalane ke liye’ (shoulder for firing your rifle)
If you can not write yourself, you are hiring a writer, you need to take care of him…if you want him to stand besides you, till your film is completed.
your attitude towards film making is so pathetic that no wonder your film will be the same.at leats recognize the importance of the writer…adapting from a book needs skill…if not why not you go ahead and do it yourself.
You will pay for the film cost or camera rental coz there is no way out…but cheap folks like you will try to squeeze out every rupeee from writer’s fee because they are vulnerable…when your foundation (script) is so weak or you can’t afford to spend the minimum on your foundation no doubt your film will crumble for sure…learn to be respectful to cinema first then you can think of making somekind of cinema.
btw You can not have a barista life style in 20K…it will be travelling in BEST bus lifestyle..Even in places like UP-Bihar you need 15k minimum these days to live.
“NRI, when you are hiring a writer, you are not buying vegetables”
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
the reading between the lines has gotten incredibly amusing
keep it up.