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The Gulzar Generation: And Quietly Fades A Language
At the risk of committing online hara-kiri, let me pose a question – what makes Gulzar, the lyricist, such a figure of reverence, love and loyalty bordering on worship within a certain age group (between late 20s to late 30s) among educated Indians? I use these terms very specifically, the age group and the educated (not merely literate). Among Hindi film aficionados of an older generation, I find an admixture of condescension and mild approval while speaking about Gulzar while a generation later have barely heard of him bar a ‘Kajrare’ and don’t know what the fuss is about. And outside of the educated and dare I say, enlightened class, Gulzar’s lyrics won’t win the popularity sweepstakes. So, what makes this particular sub-set (the Gulzar generation as I have titled it and arguably, to which I might belong as well) so deeply connected to Gulzar?
While I was pondering on the above topic on a trans-Atlantic flight, two other recent instances cropped up in my mind which broadened the context within which the above question needed to be asked. The first instance was about a week back when I visited one of the large format bookstores which have sprung up in most large cities in India. One of the pleasures (fast receding, admittedly) of staying in Bangalore is the availability of small book stores which dot the landscape in Central Business District area where you still find a true bibliophile selling books and suggesting new books based on your reading patterns. Anyway, the reason for visiting the large format bookstore instead was that I had received gift coupons from my Bank. As I started browsing through the various sections, I had this sudden desire to buy works of some Hindi authors. I searched in vain for a few minutes and reached the helpdesk to query a few authors. And I realized then that the store didn’t have a single book in Hindi/Hindustani. They did have some known names like Manto, Chugtai but they were translated works.
The second instance was when I received a text message on my phone from a younger colleague asking me what’s the Hindi/Hindustani equivalent of the word ‘feeling’. I responded with the answer and then asked the reason for the query. And I learnt that he had been using ‘feeling’ in his everyday spoken Hindi for so long that he had absolutely no idea of what the actual word in Hindi had been.
Maybe, this is how a language ends, not with a bang but through a gradual fading out from the consciousness; when the words lose their association with the images and emotions, when they become a burden for the sole reason of their existence, expression.
Don’t get me wrong here. This isn’t another armchair lament for Hindi. The Hindi or Hindustani as we know it today isn’t that old a language in any case. Also, I firmly believe that despite the romantic notions of a language representing the sum total of the advance of a civilization and an expression of its noblest thoughts, the destiny of a language is inevitably inter-twined with its relevance to commerce. The language of commerce eventually is the most beautiful language. In the history of our nation and the world, languages have taken birth and faded on this sole criterion. So, why express dismay when the same forces are winning this battle of attrition with Hindi as well in these times. And whatever replaces it will have its own idiom, its own purveyors of beauty in prose and rhyme and its own connoisseurs.
What interests me in the above instances is how the late 20s-30s educated individual (the Gulzar generation) might react to them. And since I count myself as part of that generation, I can conduct this thought experiment on myself. Unlike, the previous generation, I studied Hindi only till Class X. I liked the language and read on my own important authors outside the syllabus during and a few years after. Since, my only relationship with the language is the conversational Hindi that I apply with a few friends and the movies that I watch. These aren’t the greatest sources of quenching any sort of literary thirst. But there remains that thirst, a sense of wistfulness about that language, an emotional vacuum of inadvertently misplacing something precious which doesn’t just go away for this generation. Gulzar’s film lyrics conveniently fill up that vacuum for us.
Why? The words individually haven’t yet been lost on us but when they come together there is a requisite ambiguity that intrigues us, taunts us and in its resolution satiates us like any good literature, they can be discussed and critiqued in a community that brings a sense of belonging and most importantly, they remain accessible like all good literature should be. It absolves us of our betrayal to the language, however temporarily. It gives us a sense of rootedness, of remaining linked to a past that we feared we had broken clean of. The previous generation had real Hindi/Hindustani literature to fall back on while the next generation is busy building its own treasury of memories and regrets about things which we can’t foresee now. That leaves us - the Gulzar generation - to flounder with parched throats and an inescapable remorse till we hear bits of ‘Din khaali khali bartan hai aur raat hai ek andha kuan’ and receive that momentary solace. A brief moment when it seems we have redeemed our generation.
Will this quest ever end for the Gulzar generation? The quest will outlive Gulzar himself. The Gulzar generation desperately seeking a new beacon will find them in a Prasoon Joshi, Swanand Kirkire or a Piyush Mishra. Like other ‘generations’, the loyalty will split, many heirs anointed, arguments fought till the generation itself disappears possibly to Bhupinder singing in the background ‘Meri aawaz hi pehchaan hai gar yaad rahe’.
What interests me most is what will the current post-Gulzar generation grow up to be wistful about? What sense of betrayal will they possess and how will they seek redemption? Some months back, I saw a performance of Phra Lak Phra Lam, the Thailand version of Ramayana (see Wiki here). The actors had forgotten what the words mean, the audience didn’t understand them either but it was riveting with the colors, the costumes, the dances and a certain emotional intensity and sense of freedom which entertained you and may be even touched you.
To me, it seems like a lot of Hindi cinema will start to look like it in a few decades. Don’t believe me? Why do we, the Gulzar generation, still can’t make sense of why Om Shanti Om and Heyy Babby are the biggest grossers of last year? The signs are already around us. Do I judge them as good or bad? Well, let’s just say that for the generation that’s being left behind the inexorable march of civilization always appears to be going the wrong way.
71 Responses to “The Gulzar Generation: And Quietly Fades A Language”
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@Subrat,
As I see,
(1) For the age group you have mentioned Gulzar is not simply a lyricist, they know him as multi faceted creative person. and its more than possible that many liked him through his films and his lyricist form came later.
(2) As Director he always remained different and bit unconventional and that fetched some audience who wanted to see things not handled in conventional manners always prevalent in hindi cinema.
(3)His handeling of actors specially main stream actors. he changed their usual style of acting in his films and this was liked.
(4) on one hand he brought maturity in adults (onscreen characters) in his films and on the other hand he handled kids beautifully in his films
(5) women in his films emerged as different, shining, feminine and intelligent and powerful. People loved his treatment of women.
(6) Quality, he has always been seen as a quality oriented man. no matter market is going where his products have a Gulzarian touch. He may not compete with a Manomohan Desai at BO but when it comes to add something in collection, one will go to buy, Mere Apne, Shaq, Achanak, Mausam, Aandhi, Angoor, Namkeen etc with a happiness and satisfaction inside, because he can watch these films again and again and here he knows he will get enough material to explore in different watching. His products may not have spontaneity but have have longevity.
(7) His teaming with RD Burman who was experimental and who touched chord with age group you have mentioned.
(8)Whatever work he did, he did with his own conviction. If it was a TV serial Mirza Gahlib he made it with high standard. His teaming with Jagjit Singh for this serial brought him another kind of accolodaes. Even those who were grown up kids during the telecast of this serial and they were forced to listen to Jagjit Singh because their elder brother sisters were loving Jagjit Singh’s songs/gazals, they also became Gulzaar Saab’s admirer.
(9) His own personality. He could be said as another form of AB who has intrusion in literary and musical world also. His voice, rendition, way of speaking and his commentaries between his songs or poems, increased his acceptance and popularity among people. He looked convincing doing all these things and he became a star on his own, and in his areas. Though media and specially film Industry never gave him that support and recognition which they gave to his other contemporaries. He earned it himself through his contiuous creative work. Media even cant like him because of his serius nature but he has been survining because of his appeal in mass.
(10)Power of imagination in his work, whether its prose or poetry. It does not end there with audience (lisenting, reading or seeing) It enters in one and takes him on tour of imagination. Words may not be in rythmatic order but they have capability to explode inside the mind of audience.
One cant simply listen, read or see Gulzaar saab’s creation, one is forced to think later. After effects is more in his creation.
(11) His creative energy has not shrinked. It works in a style of spring or shocker. at times it looks like pressed a bit but next moment it takes a jump and its all over then.
—
may be not in sync with territory you are touching, but few things about Gulzar saab.
Quietly Fades A Language : -
In real life, language takes a change, every 10 miles, every year. Thats not very unusual thing and it was not like this that during 50s and 60s people spoke language which was used in hindi films and specially in the songs. Where dialects change after a short distance there its very impractical to have impression that language in real life can be in such a refined form.
But learned people were working in films and this friction among them and this healthy competition and their own moral values and a responsible attitude towards society and a goal to make it better some day, might have pushed them to keep a refined language for on screen characters and specially in songs.
Film music was not classical where motives are different and not purity of words and it could be words used in folk way. Film music was enrched with words, which carried some meaning to the situation shown in the film and in a decent manner.
Its not only in India but everywhere, when beat took over the lyrics then language in the songs was bound to be affected.
and now beat is the king and as spontaneous success is the mantra of films, music so who cares who is writing and what he is writing.
Its era of disposable things. Use a song for 14 days at the most 30 days and let a new beatable song come in the car, in walkmans.
Competition is not there between lyricists to write better songs but to fit words on a high beat song. Language has to suffer in such cases.
PEOPLE have become more selfish and have been converted in to mere a consumer and they demand a creative person should supply what they can understand instantly and not that thing for which they have to try a little.
Many are demanding Prostitutes and not wives because later deserve some factor of their responsibilties.
Songs are now to hit at Loin place and not at head place. ;)
If filmmakers know the language and want to keep a refined langauge then able lyricists will remain in arena and then music composers who are satisfied only in creating high beat songs, will also be forced to bring better quality. In general its fault of filmmaker.
Their concerns decide what quality will remain in the film or its music. There is never a dearth of able people in any field. They may not have a recognition in rat race oriented market policies but they always exist.
cheers quitely.
please don’t talk about gulzar as if he’s from the past, though?
in connection with Wives———-line—–
and not to see things in general, Females are not behind the males in any thing (good, bad and ugly).
I think subrats article is a smear.
a knowledgible person indulging in a one sided smear because it is possible polemically to smear just about anyone.
for example, the post 2000 generation hasn’t heard of gulzar?
chaiya chaiya anybody? or pucho jo koi meri nishani(yahaan)?
of course there is flambe and then there is flambe. some people get it for telling the truth some for putting out such humongous whoppers that it would seem they were asking for it.
im going to quote a few gulzar generation songs.
deewngi diwaangi from oso
all songs ..bol na halke halke from joom barabar jhoom.
kajra re from bunty aur bubly
aaja mahiya from fiza.
wonder what the gulzar generation is going to do after subrat (charecter) assasinates him.
what will the post 2008 gulzar generation have to be wistful about?
maybe javed aktar will start writing songs again…
I do not belong to the Gulzar generation, sigh!
we will all always belong to it.
wait a minute neerja prasad trivedi, you are a dude in firenze,right?
why am I putting moongphali to you?
wah! you know everything about me except for my correct first name. are you are cyber stalker?
anyway, plane to catch!
Hoping to see at least 200 comments on Gulzar here by the time I come back :)
cdrakenc, ouch. i certainly don’t consider myself part of the gulzar generation but subrat trying to assassinate gulzar? that’s a stretch by anyone’s imagination.. if anything, completely the opposite. the post-2000 generation has “heard of” gulzar, yes. but i think that’s about it. they don’t “know” him. to take the examples you mentioned above, people would listen to these songs while driving to work, or at wedding receptions or at bollywood parties, and enjoy and/or dance to them in merriment.. maybe even go crazy listening to the songs over and over on loop. but how many would take the time to really listen to, understand the lyrics and try to make sense of them? in fact, how many people could you go around asking “do you know who wrote the lyrics for kajra re or deewangi or aaja mahiya?” and have them come up with the right answer? but instead, ask them who the song was picturized on, and pat will come the answer.
if anything, i’d say subrat is trying to educate the average man about gulzar.. and for what it’s worth, he succeeded in me. because reading this post just made me look up the lyrics of kajra re and am now going thru each and every word of it. i did the same recently when there was a discussion of “kash laga” from no smoking, which also has some really beautiful words.. now i can say i’m actually making an effort to understand the man. before this, i had just “heard of” him.
and now waiting eagerly for pavan jha to swoop in with his take…
cyber?
neerja ballabh mishra, look out you window. that guy with bloodstains on his body is me.
assasinate? I certainly said character assasinate. did I mean actual gore? I don’t know but the article above certainly seems to be th e literary equivalent of that…
re educating people about gulzar, the eqivalent here is if subrat decided to tell me a few facts about my family dog(much loved) and then started with his bodoliy functions first..this is his anus..this is where your pet tiger craps out of…etc…who needs this education? certainly not we….
I want subrat to take every article of his words back,kow tow like a chinese concubine to gulzar for his jurrat and write a 500 word essay on gulzar sahib’s japanese verse.
that will do for now.
tha.nks.
a well intended but incoherent article! great attempt though..
its incoherent because imo subrat is conflicted. he knows that he’s not making any sense..gulzar is one of the busiest film lyricists today,and its not from lovelorn 40 year olds…but he has been asked to do a smear(or at least convinced over a remy martin that its a good idea)..he just doesn’t remember precisely why its a good idea…
RK: Thanks for the additional information and also in bringing your views into this.
cdrakenc: My friend, I couldn’t get my point across clearly to you. For a whole generation which includes me, Gulzar and his lyrics reprsent our connect with Hindi literature, with what we can’t access everyday. So the whole article was to reflect on how he has provided that solace and I call that entire generation the Gulzar generation. What greater credit can one give the man.
All the rest of your comments, I think, were attempts to pull my leg or get me into a debate. I would’ve gotten in earlier but was away.
Thanks for thinking that a remy martin can do wonders to my thinking and coaxe me into a smear campaign. :)
Arun: Thanks for your encouragement
subrat,
the central thesis of your writing was that just as gulzar was stuck on your generations mind, he was equally stuck to your generation and should fade away like your generation.
I wasn’t trying to pull you into a debate..only counter your polemics with some of my own.
re remy martin, isn’t that how most pay for play journalism worksin bollywood?
cdrakenc: You have a point there when you put it that way. My central thesis was that Gulzar is connected to a generation in a manner which will be tough to be emulated in the next. Gulzar won’t fade away, for sure and that isn’t what I have written.
You are most welcome to counter my real or imagined polemic and all the chinese concubine bits must be most helpful in such endeavours.
Regarding Remy Martin, may be that’s how it works in Bollywood journalism and it is indeed enlightening to know about such issues. But considering a regular blogger of this site a Bollywood journalist with agenda of his own is taking all this a tad too seriously. I feel important though when you infer that and before a long weekend at that. I can’t thank you enough for it.
the “attack” on gulzar came suddenly out of the blue is all.
most paid journalists are usually regular bloggers too.
remember someoneposted some informative stuff here the other day about kajol’s poetry?
have a good long weekend.
padmmavati starts soon and I need shower.
Subrat bro.,i think its your problem that you are not in touch with hindi literature after class 12 but why you are generalizing things that present generation is not in touch with hindi literature.
I am also in bangalore but whenever i went to my hometown (Varanasi),i use to bring books which are enough for 6 months for any book worm.
aur rahi baat gulzar ki… gulzar ko hum kisi aur contemporary lyricist se sahitya ke adhik kareeb paate hai so woh hum logo ke favorite hai.
waise commerce ke liye apne aur apne “inner self” ko sell kar dena bhi ek type ka Prostitution hai….
RKji, the exact thing (Mirza Ghalib + younger brother + bored) used to happen with me except that instead of Mirza Ghalib, I had to TOLERATE Jagjit Singh of Neem ka Ped (title song) :). No disrespect meant here, but you cant expect much else from a knee high kid listening to Jagjit Singh…
and although i dont belong to the ‘Gulzar generation’, but i guess i can say that i know about some of the personality of the man, as talked by RK and Subrat… In fact, I probably know/identify more with Gulzar the writer/director than the lyricist because his lyrics always had been hard-to-understand for me (or as Subrat would probably have it, they were rooted to the literature with which I wasnt in touch, and with all those hard-to-understand words and all), whereas his movies (especially his dialogues) were a lot easy to understand…
Case in point:
Chachi 420, Sadma, Khoobsurat, Angoor, Aandhi, Chupke Chupke, Namak Haram, Achanak, Parichay, Bawarchi, Koshish, Anand, Mere Apne, Guddi etc (courtesy imdb)
Wouldnt it be great if he were to return to scripting/directing (and this time more than a short 10 min story of Dus Kahaniyaan)
On a side note, as I was doing the imdb, I just stumbled on the info that Pankaj Kapur was the one who wrote the dialogues+script for the Band of boys movie: ‘Kiss Kiss ko’!!!!???
Is it true?
Just a query:
Its mentoined here that Deewangi Deewangi is by Gulzar, I do not find that in the credits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Om_Shanti_Om
I did not find anything in imdb as well. Please provide me the link where it does say so? I shall check my audio CD cover again…….
Thanks.
This guy cdrakenc is one helluva guy. Too distracting (check out his pretentious flirtations with Neeraja), too full of attitude to even appreciate the nuances in the article about a subject full of nuances, and worse, it’s attitude combined with daftness - when the article was indeed a positive one, he is trying to be more loyal than the king, demanding apologies. Dude, you are fit for some political platform, not this one.
My Lord,
Mere faazil dost Subrat shaayad likhte samay bhatak gaye hain, ya Trans Atlantic flight me holi ke mauke pe inhe “Bhaang” serve ki gayi hai, aur wo ye post lihte samay poore hosh.o.hawaas me nahin the, isliye meri adalat se ye guzarish hai ki unki is post ko seriously nahin liya jaaye (Jab wo hosh me aayenge to shaayad is raay se sahmat honge)
Subrat,
“Jaana the jaapan, pahunch gaye cheen”
You have a valid point about fading of a language, but I fail to understand why blame it on non availability.. Bullshit!.. It is the lack of urge/desire of the self to reach to the literature should be blamed than accesibility.. The literature is accesible and available (barring regular hindi magazines like Sarika, Dinmaan, Dharmyug, Saptahik Hindustan.. but if one has desire Kadambini, Navneet and new kid on the block Aha Zindagi is available easily).. One can easily find Premchand, Manto, Sarat, Bimal Mitr, HRB, Parsaai, Kabeer, Meera, Firaak, Ghalib provided one has time and desire to find out..
aur thoda bahut Internet ne bhi nikamma kar diya
warna hum sab bhi aadmi the kaam ke
(as it has further made a dent in the urge to go out and search)
I think I hail from the same “genertion” you are refering but I never lost myself in the hands of English and Hindi has always been with me all thru my life.. Also if I have lived with Gulzar saab’s works for last 25 years, at the same time I did with Ghalib, Meer, Kaber, Meera, Premchand, Sarat, Manto, Hari Shankar Parsai, Firaaq, Bashir Badr and so many…
No doubt the quality of language has worsned in last three decades but then it has started from home… Maan and baabooji have become, mom and dad.. Namaste has become Hi.. I would blame the education system and define the generation as “Post Emergency Indisciplined India” generation..
Recently Crosswords opened a store in Jaipur and it was none other than Gulzar saab only who inaugurated the store, and during the press conference I gathered all courage and asked in the QA session “Gulzar saab, its a good sign that the store is being inaugurated by you, but does that ensure this store will make available the original works in Urdu and Hindi scripts also as today we can see 99% books in english in the store”.. Gulzar saab passed it the question to The owners and they “had” to give assurance that they will try..
and a word on “Gulzar Generation”
You cant define Gulzar Generation because there is none.. There was “Anand Bakshi Generation” and even there was “Samir Generation”.. but “Gulzar” has remained Gulzar over last 45 years, exceptional in every “Generation passed by”… He was one of the most “Non Classical” artist in so many years…Film industry thought he is a literature wala, literature people thought he is a film wala… poets considered him as a lyricist while film industry considered him a poet.. film makers thought he is a screenplay-dialog writer.. hindiwala thought he is urduwala and urduwalas think he is hindiwala.. He never cared for recognition in any specific “classical” form (except literature)..
I think the answer to your question lies here.. as the generation you referred to is uninterested in being a “classical” in one field.. they do want to touch the sky but keeping feets on ground.. for “Orthodox” world we are modern and for the modern world a bit behind :) not here not there..
Remember Humjoli song ?
Ye kaisa aaya zamaana ye kaisa..
Quite an interesting argument on here.
by the way, my kajrare is your thodi si zameen. so can’t argue there. I would still say we don’t even have enough time for the Gulzar that we have access to. just look at his last few films(not aware of his poetry) - yahaan, jhoom barabar jhoom(no point to start again), blue umbrella, saathiya, bunty aur babli, guru, no smoking. though I am not sure if I am convinced myself about this, as sometimes things are better left unexplained. I hated it when they did it in school. but still…
What an absolutely delightful writeup. I almost feel like someone read my mind.
@cdrakenc: Bro..you are trying to overstate your perception by underestimating other stuff. i believe you are gone off beam by having misjudging some informative elements.
I think I and subrat understand one another perfectly.
I have Middle scooted this argument for 50 points.
Thanks.
and sugandha,
(does the call me sign) Call me!
I was here to check mail but can’t resist commenting.
I agree with the term ‘Gulzar generation’. The time when I grew up, I heard these older college people raving about Gulzar. AT that time, I didn’t understand why he was so special even though I loved Sahir and Mahrooh and other old lyricists who I heard at home regularly. So, I didn’t grow up admiring and listening to Gulzar…but I do now. But, he doesn’t hold the same special place for me as he does for some/most of you.
@Shuksr
What is pretentious flirtation?
posting from prague?
;)
pretentious flirtation is when a ladki from bordeaux and a ladka from london talk about getting eurail passes to prague.
but it doesnt apply to you,of course because youre really neerja ranjan dutto a pan chewing dhanbad guy in florence..
to get back on topic, there was a brief period of creative energy in the 70’s from gulzar(aandhi,mausam,achanak ,parichay,koshish,kinara where gulzars films were cult status films with people like subrat.(who now take transatlantic flights and ruminate over gulzar) but those werent even the most popular films of the time(hrishikesh mukharjee and raj kapoor were shaking the tree with films by a certain Mr Bacchan and Mr Khanna).
a Gulzar generation is a self defined one. just becquse I listen to Ghalib I do not become 190 years old..
Gulzar is discovered one movie at a time, one song at a time
Shatrughan: You just proved my point. You have to go to Varanasi to get your books while you stay in Bangalore!! So, I might have to request you to give me books because I don’t have a home in Varanasi where I can go and pick up stuff.
Regarding comments, I do tend to joke about them in my articles but trust me (and go through all my articles), I have never written things for comments. Else, I might have written about more popular stuff or reviews of movies et al
Sarang: you are right abt deewangi deewangi. Didn’t want to point it out earlier
Pavan: Hoshwaalon ko khabar kya bekhudi kya cheez hai!!
Anyway, you have written that all those magazines and titles are ‘easily available’ if one has urge/desire/interest and is willing to search for it. This is a contradiction in itself. By that logic, even texts in Pali are easily available if one has the urge to.
You have maintained your connect with all those great names of Hindi/Urdu literature is a credit to you and your interests which comes through your writing. But, I believe it hasn’t been easy to maintain that interest.
Lastly, you actually did a summary of the thought that I had when you mentioned that orthodox and modern paradox. So maybe ‘jaate the japan, pahunch gaye Japan’
Tushar, Sugandha: Thanks! A lot written here has been based on conversation across the board about why those words touch them. And some of you share those feelings
cdrakenc: You must be winning most internet arguments! It is one of the most intellectually challenging forms of dialectic since people can say anything and get away (case in point Deewangi from OSO written by Gulzar as you had mentioned). But why let logic get in the way of the pleasure of scoring points on the Net.
And hey, you sleep every night thinking you have won scooted everything for 50 points. Isn’t that what is really important?
Ah! the pleasure of being the jury and the defendant. Why should I take such simple pleasures away from you?
Neeraja: some other time on why Gulzar doesn’t affect you as much
Good article Subrat. And even though you did not perhaps imply that the Gulzar generation will fade away, I think it will. No matter what people say, it is fading away and it will eventually fade away.
Or perhaps I am just being emotional because I saw ‘Race’ yesterday and can relate to your article much more now.
And cdrakenc aka Citizen Dildo - “Gulzar is discovered one movie at a time, one song at a time”. I think that is the point Subrat is making. There won’t be many movies or songs, so there wont be much discovering!
Oh yea, books are available, scripts are available, old movies are digitally enhanced and re-engineered blah blah… but the Gulzar generation will fade. Perhaps not with this generation but the next! What is it… generation ‘Y’?
@ Subrat: “Unlike, the previous generation, I studied Hindi only till Class X. I liked the language and read on my own important authors outside the syllabus during and a few years after.”
Reading this line made me feel as if I was reading one of my own writings. Being from the same “Gulzar generation” as you, this seemed so true. My adoration for Gulzar is not only because of his own work, but also because he opened the doors to the wonderful world of urdu adab for me through his serial Mirza Ghalib.
@Pavan: I tend to agree with Subrat about inaccessibility of Hindi literature. It is available, no doubt, but easily accessible? I’m afraid not. As you yourself have pointed out: “One can easily find Premchand, Manto, Sarat, Bimal Mitr, HRB, Parsaai, Kabeer, Meera, Firaak, Ghalib provided one has “time” and desire to find out”. So while I agree with you that the desire is lacking, I think “time” (because of relative inaccesibility) is also an important factor. I have the “desire” and have been in touch with Hindi/Urdu literature for many years, but it is still quite an effort to get a wide variety of Hindi literature. And I’m speaking of Delhi where hindi/urdu literature is relatively more accessible than most other places. You could say that the “desire” is not strong enough…fair enough, but don’t you think if it was more accessible, even people with relatively weak desire would have got more exposure to the language?
As an aside, I have also tried to remain in touch with Hindi and Urdu by consciously choosing to write poetry primarily in these languages, even though the effort may be amateurish. It’s like trying to learn by trial and error when other means are relatively hard to get.
this is not about winning arguments least of all on the internet. however when one does win one it is sweet.
re dewangee, I went by imdb, but could easily have been wrong.
it doesn’t take away from my point any.
anand g with a penchant for nicknames, ghalib stopped writing 150 years ago. he still has worshippers and fans in each new generation…was MY point.
Aditya: Yes, that indeed was my point. This was a tribute to Gulzar and how he opened doors for many of us and also helped satiate thirst for literature
cdrakenc: When you have to depend on imdb for checking if deewangi from OSO was written by Gulzar, I really begin to understand how helpful imdb is for Gulzar fans like you. Does it take away from your point? Not at all, nothing can ever take away from your point. It’s as they say in this generation’s lingo, you can ‘fornever’ be wrong. So I concur.
On winning internet arguments, I have already conceded you have a rare flair for winning them at your will. Please keep at it. It will take you far. The sonner you start the better it will be
subrat,
good grief. stop the petulance.its only an internet argument you lost! not an ias interview .people (even devoted fans) sometimes check sources. get over it. sometimes the sources are wrong get over it too. I was never impressed by kajra re on one hand and deewangee on the other, so I never bothered to find out who wrote these songs. when I check imdb it says that gulzar wrote it.
does that make your incoherent article above make sense,suddenly? nope.
it only means that ONE song I attributed to gulzar wasn’t his.
get over it.
cdrakenc: It wasn’t in me for me to get over it. But you have been so nice to me, I will abide by your advice. There’s no petulance at all. Please read through all my comments. There’s only agreement and maybe mild amusement. I will drop that as well since you say it.
Does all this make the article more coherent to you as you have asked? Not at all! I lose this argument too. Try as hard as I might, it is very difficult to make this article coherent to you. Entirely my loss. Readers like you do challenge writers like me and we will continue to work hard. Trust me on that
subrat
we are in complete agreement that the incoherence of this article is completely unrelated to the petulance of tone you adopt when someone points out the said incoherence to you.
but mere incoherence does not incompetence make.( that needs remy martin…and ruminating on hindi lyrics on transatlantic flights.)
Im sure that if you dig deep enough into your vast alibaba’s cave of knowledge,you’ll strike oil…or gold…
looking forward to your next whop…instalment( after majrooh is better than sahir and gulzar shallfade and be erased)..with some anticipation…
Aditya, was missing you here. :)
Subrat bro,really its my pleasure to share books with you… just drop me a mail aur banda haazir ho jaayega :)… email id is toshatru@gmail.com.
cdrakenc: Indeed, I will try my best with my next whopper, as you call it. Catering to such intellect is tough but then who said life’s easy.
Regarding incompetence, I am always assured that there’s always someone like you (with the IMDB riches beside him) who is there to show me the right way. The small pleasures of the constant lessons that one receives in comments here.
On Alibaba, you seem to be mixing metaphors. There was no digging for the gold in the story. Another instance of imdb reference possibly!
subrat
yeah yeah dude, brang on the next whopper.
fries and coke too si vous plait
it will truly be a happy meal
cdrakenc: Fine, mate! Interesting! Never thought, some day, the cow also might look forward to a happy meal. But as I have written earlier, one learns everyday here.
Subrat, dude yor responses to this cdrake guy is hilarious. Priceless. Best way to drivel
Aadatan tumne kar diye vaade,
aadatan humne aitbaar kiya…
-Gulzaar
“Gulzar generation”… I like that…I have one more identity now…did you read my mind?
Keep writing…for further enhancement in the degree of incoherence, I strongly recommend “Pierre Ferrand”.
@subrat 52
only after remy martin on transatlantic flights ….mate.
Thanks for a nice article Subrat! It is nice to know that like me, there are more people here for whom Gulzar has been one reason for getting to know about the magic of Poetry and the beauty of our languages.
Oh! yes, personally, I do not think someone who is a Gulzar fan needs to check imdb to know if a song is written by him or not! Wouldn’t you guys agree that once you hear a song you have that ‘Gulzar’ sense inside of you that tells you: “Hmm, is this by Gulzar? Does sound like it!!!” :)
If one looks at Gulzarsaab’s entire career, his super dialogues (Anand, Guddi…..)stand out as much as his lyrics (starting with Bandini to the evolved product in Khamoshi and thereafter…) In his ventures as Producer/ Director, one would rate him a notch lower. But those are the economic compulsions of Indian film industry. Outstanding writers/ lyricists become not-so-outstanding Directors. That the rest of the field is so mediocre that these people outshine others in this area too is a different matter. In my view the loss to the Written Word is far more than any gain to the world of Direction.
“Oh! yes, personally, I do not think someone who is a Gulzar fan needs to check imdb to know if a song is written by him ”
I personally do think so.
Most people, even those IN the industry, have a busy life, and sometimes it’s possible that a mediocre song (such as Deewangee) is actually by gulzar, even thouh you didn’t know this, so checking IMDB (or some reliable source of referecne ) is a good thing.
cdrakenc: yeah, right.
Also, in that busy life, you think that the song in Yahaan is “Poocho jo koi meri” instead of “Pooche jo koi meri” as you’ve mentioned in comment # 5.
Or, like you had mentioned in my last post, you had taken Salman Khan’s father for a lyricist.
The busy life does its toll. Thank heavens for IMDB. Once you’ve got that by your side then the new age warrior is battle-ready for all internet wars
subrat,
I actually read this post above thinking I had made a mistake.
no it was just impotent rage from you at having lost an argument.
you’re clutching at straws here, im afraid.
talk to someone else…it may help calm you down.
very good article bro .. dil khush ho gaya
cdrakank(sorry I couldn’t find that in IMdB so couldn’t check if that’s how it’s spelt), while your perseverance to hold on and appear unconquered might win a fan or two, the effort is not really worth it. You normally are fun to follow in your comments when you contribute to a discussion , but here all that is happening I must say is not in good taste. Would request you to take personal potshots elsewhere.
I am sure you will have a smart thing or two to say in response to that, but that is not really not my intention. This is just a humble plea from someone who follows the author of this article, and I am sure I am not the only one.So there is really no point in you nitpicking things just for the sake of doing so. Hope you understand and not blow it up, yet again.
tushar
I didn’t start this. please take it up with the people who did.
I just don’t stand for nonsense much, theres really no point in backing down when people insist on talking nonsense…or calling nicknames, for that matter, is there?
Get your point, but there is no sense either in discussing non-relevant(to the post) issues. It spoils the fun for others who might not be interested in our personal tu tu main main. Would appreciate your cooperation.
ok next time someone wants to call me a name, take it to email.
much thanks buddy
Cdrakenc…I would not like to have a go at you..that would be cheap..but we respect Subrat and his abilities here..we also respect his knowledge in this forum..just please, if you could pay a little respect to that fount of knowledge!
And if you cannot, then I would recommend an article where you can rant all you want to and we can just skip it if we feel that it is not worth it!
What is happening is we have to studiously ignore you while we read Tushar, Pavan and all the other serious commentators (Subrat himself too)..This is not a frivolous forum for many of us. This is life for us. Subrat provides succor to my arteries.
He has been extremely nice to you. Respect that and his writing abilities. Please!
Come out with your own well written posts and I shall be among the first to applaud..but till then refrain from this juvenile rants!!!
I beseech you with folded hands. PFC is a common place, use it for your benefit.
God be with you!
I have plenty of respect for subrat’s knowledge…maybe not so much for his allegiences and have No respect for your right to tell me to shut up.
ut email me at cdrakenc@gmail.com and we’ll talk about this.
@cdrakenc..Am I wishing to get into a battle with you via your ID / mail..NO!
then let sleeping dogs lie.