The need for Experimental Cinema
F1 Racing. To most people its a hideous waste of time, money and precious resources in a world going to hell due to environmental atrocities. Even if they have no moral qualms against the sport they simply can’t fathom the fascination of the devoted to watch a bunch of men going around a track some 50 odd times over 3 hours.
To the fan however, whether we may or may not be gear heads, F1 remains the pinnacle of the automotive experience. I’m not gonna go through a tedious SWOT analysis of the sport but rather just hint at how it influences our lives. The reason that Car manufacturers spend Billions of dollars every yeah on it isn’t just for the glamor or brand awareness but also due to the fact that most of the innovations filter down to their production lines
Automatic transmission, Traction Control, ABS , Carbon monocoque frames and most of the other stuff that we take for granted in our own steeds day were pioneered in the high pressure world of Formula 1 Racing. For the people involved in developing all this space age technology, the opportunity to be on the cutting edge is the biggest high imaginable.
I would make a similar case for films or rather experimental films to be more precise. Despite the limited audience and for the most part the complete lack of recognition, the influence these filmmakers have on their brethren is incalculable.
In the 60’s Stan Brakhage began making a name for himself by bypassing the use of cameras and story completely by painting and and scratching directly on the negative, At the time he was dismissed as an oddity but is now considered the doyen of experimental filmmakers along with Maya Deren. His disciples include Mark Romanek, Michel Gondry and most famously David Ficher who payed tribute to him in the opening credits of “Seven”.
Maya Deren of course deserves an article to herself so I won’t even try to attempt to quantify her influence. I once met a guy who worked with Scorsese and he told me that before making any new film, Scorsese would watch hundreds of underground films in the hope to be inspired. In many interviews he has acknowledged his regard for the films of Kenneth Anger.
Think of all the techniques so commonly used in modern cinematic technique like jump cuts, flash forwards, flash frames, ramping, green screen, stop motion, in media res narratives, split screen etc etc. All of them were considered experimental at first before they gained popular acceptance.
Now I would like to pose a question to the reader. If you can stipulate that cinema is an art then consider this. For many people the main purpose of films is to entertain but the same people won’t go to an art gallery or museum to be entertained. They would go there to be shocked and awed, to be made to wonder and think, to question the way they view the world and themselves. Is it so difficult to give experimental films the same benefit ? Is it really so tough to view something that doesn’t have a clear cut 3 act structure or well defined protagonists and antagonists ? Of course it is. Especially in a feature film where there is very thin line between artistic vision and pretension.
That is why we get to see the most cutting edge techniques being utilized in commercials and music videos. Think of the filmmakers whose unconventional style has most influenced the language of cinema in recent years. At the top of my head I can name Fernando Meirelles, Michel Gondry, Spike Jonze, Tarsem, Anton Corbijn and Jonathan Glazer. Someone whom I really wish made films more often are Ram Madhvani and happily enough he has a film coming out soon. All of these whiz kids cut their teeth on short form before embarking on features.
Several institutions have recognized the claim of music videos and commercials to be the most evolved art form of the new millennium. That’s why MOMA in New York has them on permanent display along with other art installations.
Coming back however to the tricky question of experimentation in features I cannot deny the fact that anybody who pays his hard earned money to watch a feature film does so with the implicit understanding that he will be entertained. It’s as simple as that and there is no denying it. Or maybe entertained is the wrong word. I think engrossed is the correct term. I wasn’t entertained when I watched “Grave of the Fireflies” but engrossed in the story despite the fact that I have never seen a more depressing and sad film in my life.
The audience needs to see and feel something he hasn’t felt before. Those who fall back on tried and tested formulas will be obsolete in a few short years. With so much other avenues of entertainment available nobody will be interested in watching staid and ponderous stuff.
Now let me play the role of Devil’s Advocate here. Should the vaults in the banks be opened and laid at the feet of all the filmmakers who think they will revolutionize film making ? The answer is a big emphatic NO. Those who want it enough will fight with their lives for it. If the process is made too easy then all we will get to see is self indulgent intellectual masturbation by pretentious preening peacocks whom the film industry attracts in droves.
I really find it amazing when I meet people without any sort of track record who consider it their divine right to make extravagant films with other people’s money. I mean no matter how much of a SOB a producer is, he doesn’t deserve to loose his shirt or someone else’s delusions of grandeur. With Digital technology it’s very simple to make films without the shenanigans involved in getting star studded films off the ground.
In any case technique and slickness will always pale in comparison to great storytelling. I would any day prefer a technically shoddy but emotionally engaging film like “Moscow does not believe in tears” rather than well made crap like ” Armageddon”.
A true artist or filmmaker doesn’t really give a shit about how many people watch his work or how much money he makes out of it. He does it to quench an inner desire to create something special so that he can justify his existence to himself. With attempt he tries to better himself because he knows that the journey is much more important than the destination.
Dylan Thomas said it more eloquently than I ever could
In my craft or sullen art
Exercised in the still night
When only the moon rages
And the lovers lie abed
With all their griefs in their arms,
I labour by singing light
Not for ambition or bread
Or the strut and trade of charms
On the ivory stages
But for the common wages
Of their most secret heart.
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Good work-liked the way you have analysed it
well said….
a must read for a producer at Bruckheimer….
lol at the armageddon refernce too… i started laughing out in the theater as soon as I saw people pointing heavenwards in front of the Taj…
@ mithun
While we praise the directors, let us not forget the contribution of the people that ACTUALLY designed the titles.
Saul Bass who revolutionized title design and made it an art form with his work for Hitchcock (psycho, NBNW, vertigo) and KYLE COOPER for Seven. Fincher may have had creative inputs into Cooper’s work, but it was Cooper all the way with his designs, and implementation of said designs.
I think he also designed titles for Arlington Road, an otherwise generic thriller, but the opening sequence and titles set up the movie as something far more interesting than what it turns out to be. Here is an essay on title design.
http://www.twenty4.co.uk/03-articles/Art%20of%20Fim%20Titles/main.htm
Hi Mithun, nice one, but I don’t know what is the context of your article?
if are you talking about international cinema, then it is not true, there are enough experimental feature films are been made. I believe in Lars von Trier’s latest film the shot divisions are done by a computer! Kiarostami has made two wonderful digital films Ten and Five, both i feel pushed cinema a bit further.
if you are talking about Hollywood: A market will experiment only when the market is ‘down’. So if you expect experiments then not consume the regular and bring that market down.
If you are talking about Indian cinema: then it is complex issue. Bollywood has no hope. Regional cinema - may be. At least in Malayalam and Bengali. Apparently in kerala lots of schools, colleges and universities now conducting digital film camps, where students write, act, direct, edit….their films and they go around and show it in other schools collages etc. May be some great experimental films come out of it. Film school students should have been the potential candidates for making experimental cinema, but i got a chance to see some diploma films from FTII, looks like they also have their dreams in Bollywood. Can’t blame them India has become such a market place true artist is considered a ‘looser’, they cant hold on to ideals longer.
G
@Dabba
I totally agree with you but as a general convention the director is equally responsible for all the bouquets as well as brickbats hence the credit for almost all new innovation goes to him for the simple reason that he either allowed it or demanded it.
As an example the technique used in the Jamiroqaui video for “Virtual Insanity” was suggested by an unnamed grip as admitted by Glazer himself but he gets all the credit as well as the awards. It may not be fair but that’s the way things work.
Btw Saul Bellow is a fucking legend. Speaking of great title design even a trashy film like “The Kingdom” has pretty innovative titles. In recent times the most simple yet effective title design I have seen are the end credits for “Michael Clayton”
@Girish
The context of my article is this.While there are lots of experimental feature films being made around the world the audience for such films in general is pretty small coz they don’t really respond to something that is wildly new and original.
Hence it has resulted in music videos and commercials to be the training ground for new stuff which eventually filters down to films as well once the process has been refined. Take the example of Bullet Time first used by Michel Gondry and then utilized in “The Matrix”.
Also most really cutting edge experimental films come from filmmakers who have made films on a low budget without any name actors involved. Steven Soderbergh tries to make experimental films between his studio projects but sometimes he misses the mark as is the case whenever you don’t stick to convention.
So while we desperately need experimental films the idea that most directors have of experimenting with a big budget and stars doesn’t really work in most cases cause both the stakes and expectations are much higher.
I remember watching “Lakshya” in the front row in Goregaon and the crowd was hissing and booing because they wanted Hrithik to be fiery and mouth exposition rather than use silence and internalise
his performance which he did quite well. “Lakshya” isn’t an experimental film but you get the picture.
@ mithun -
u mean saul bass right? bellow is a dead nobel laureate.
agree with you on the director getting credit and brickbats, becasue (s)he ultimately chooses everything on screen.
haven’t seen michael clayton yet.
@ mithun -
You must have seen Tetsuo - The Iron Man…
if not watch it immediately. it was made in 1992, but man, speak of experimental.
Slamdance Festival for those interested.
Sorry Bass it is. Slip of the tongue.
I fucking love Tetsuo 1 and 2 man. Its outta this world.
First Mainak, then Dabba… now Mithun.
*Sigh*
@ravptor
???
No offense Mithun, loved ur posts from day 1. Mainak and Dabba are just similar to you in the way they write and they way they discuss films or the type of films. Mere Observation…
Keep em coming, learning a lot! Spent the morning researching opening/end credits…
There was a heist film opening credits that i loved which went on walls following the bugler from one room to another, the films name which is not coming to me now… just thinking abt it…
Oh ok. I thought you meant that all of us were leftists.
I’m not, Mainak is and I dunno bout dabba.
@Mithun
Interesting write-up. Do we need experimental cinema? a pertinent question in wake of new age cinema(I am thinking ‘No Smoking’)in India.
I totally agree with you when you say that labeling films as ‘only for entertainment’ is not right and also on the point that technique can never come before good storytelling. A recent example from apna bollywood would be ‘Eklavya’.
“A true artist or filmmaker doesn
@ mithun -
I am an android from the galaxy Ingo!7$
My home is a spheroid the mortenssens call Viggo
In their haste, they knew not what they wrote,
I go about now without the burden of a code.
Another good article from our Disco Dancer!
And BTW I’m one of those people who thinks F1 & all other kinds fuel-based racing should be banned.
…and how did you become an environmentalist mainak?
Side Effects of reading too much.
Knowledge comes with responsibility.
Its about “Doing the Right Thing”.
Thats all!
@Neeraja
Ain’t it fascinating how I refer to the third person as he while you do it as she ?
What I meant is that he/she doesn’t really feel the need to reach out to the vast majority but rather satisfy his own creative impulses. Anything apart from that is pure gravy. Of course other people might feel differently. I would think that you would agree with me is that all of us trip up when we try to second guess what the audience will like rather than making something that we would like to see and hoping that others like it as well.
@Dabba
Hmm so is your galaxy run by vors too?
@Mainak
Probably so but not gonna happen. I wish someone would ban homework though.
@Mithun
yes I agree with you on that.
“…hoping that others like it as well.” that’s my point! There is no such thing as ‘art in isolation’ or ‘isolated art’. Every work of art derives its inspiration from society (more specifically people) and every work of art needs an audience. My point is that it’s not only about justifying his existence to himself. It’s also about an urge to convey his thoughts, to put them across the fence for acceptance/rejection/discussion.
PS: I was taught to write ‘he’ in school, I learned and deliberately changed to ’she’ in undergrad. Now, I vacillate
PPS: You should probably stop posting here and work on your homework (Hidden motive: I need to study too and you are distracting me)
you kids with your homework. In ur face suckas.
When you live to be as old as me, you will have other forms of homework, such as keeping a clean sty, doing laundry, and making decisions of world-shattering significance like the choice of magenta or amethyst for the potpourri in the bathroom.
surf’s up.
@Neeraja
No more godforsaken Nielsens for another week so Im cool for now.
Gonna try cook some crab in butter garlic now.
@dabba
Truly though arst the Muadib so prophesied to lead Arrakis to salvation. :d
@ mithun -
Don’t know about salvation, but the ways of the night fo’ sho’
@Dabba
You do make future look very alluring.
Thanks
@Mithun
I heard(read) somewhere that you love cooking. Are you married?
jokes apart, can you really cook that crab thing you mentioned?
Anyway, I need a break from this place called internet, going for some coffee and smoke.
@Neeraja
I’m psychologically and physiologically incapable of marriage which I think is very cool.
To quote me “DUDE I DON’T GET IT”
Though again its fascinating to see how gender stereotypes exhibit themselves. Since I love cooking ergo the reasons must be a) Im married or b) Im henpecked and forced to do it. :d
I actually find it very therapeutic especially since I only have to cook for myself and can do some wild experimentation. Some successful and some disasters. One of my greatest discoveries is Wheat Beer Ice cream float with strawberries. My darkest hour I think was the Capsicums stuffed with keema and cooked in sake. Horrible.
With a Larousse Gastronomique by my side I can attempt anything.The crab legs are sadly on hold until I buy a steamer so made Ostrich with shittake mushrooms instead.:-)
@Mithun
Don’t jump to conclusions (wrt gender stereotype) That’s not what I meant. My mistake! I should have said “Are you single? ;):P ” Hope you get it now.
psychologically incapable, I understand but physiologically? wokay!
And marriage? dude I don’t get it either
Wheat Beer ice cream float with strawberries, Ostrich with mushrooms, crab in butter garlic…man! you are a proper chef. My usual meal is Gobhi ki sabji/beans with rice/tortilla!!!
Life is sooooooo unfair :((
Great article! Insightful throughly!!
I couldn’t agree with you more on the need for experimental films. If everyone were happy eating pizzas, there wouldn’t have been a thing called calzone invented!!
It is the grumbling few, impatient and passionate ones who refuse to do the samething in the same way over and over again who innovate and comeout with a trend for everyone else to follow.
However the motive being experimentation, entertainment and reaching out to the audience is accorded the least preference and that is why armageddon gets made at a whopping cost, while there are works that stretch cinema canned in 8 and 16 mms. However one with a balanced head on his/her shoulders would understand that both have their place.
That said, I totally agree with the F1 anology. If you take the instance of Thamizh cinema, the virtual absence of parallel cinema has meant that the daring few like Kamal, Mani, Bharathiraaja, Bala have had to take risk with their mainstream endevours, making a few commercial compromises along the way.
Aha Mithun! Multi talented, multi tasked man! Yo.
So Nelson apart, whats next? Hitlers right handed men? wow.;)
I love seafood, loved Thom yum soup, crab in whatever sauce, grilled octopus, fish, specially Tuna. We get the freshest (if theres a word like that) from our city!
@Neeraja
Bohemians have mutated physiologies which make the very thought of marriage impossible. It also leaves us single for extended periods of time.
Gobhi with Tortillas ???? That’s like ruining two magnificent cuisines at the same time. Where is it that you live that you don’t have access to anything better? Jhumritaliya ?
@VP
Yep totally. When will they see the light? Btw what is Thamizh cinema ? Dont think Ive heard the term before.
@Sheen
Ah yes the joys of grilled octopus. I eyed some today but you need a master chef to bring out the flavors otherwise it tastes like rubber. Ottoro sushi and Squids are my passions. Have u ever tried jellyfish ? Its pretty nasty. Dunno how people eat it. Which city do you call home? Dont tell me its Bombay.
Excellent article…unfortunately we dont have many experimental films. The reason could be the unhealthy competion to become superior mostly seen among sons/daughters of KNOWN actors. Being a son of a famous actor they acquire oppurtunities and it comes all the way!!
When a talented actor gets one chance inspite of all his struggle our KNOWN actor gets tons. Where 9/10 will slump. Now how do you expect experimental films in bollywood.
Star ruling has to stop. And a fresh talent has to come.
Our prominenet actors are well comfortable with top positions. None of them act in so called experimental movies..
Well I would say based on what I’ve seen that in most cases a name actor would make the film top heavy and lend unnecessary expectations to the film.
I can give you the example of two films I saw recently. Though neither of them are technically experimental it’s close enough to make a point.
“Rendition” has Oscar nominees and winners to the brim but the film falls flat for some reason. Maybe it’s the expectation that we will get to see some fantastic acting and technique. The acting is actually pretty good but by no means stellar so I think that maybe using unknown actors akin to the similarly themed “Paradise Now” would have been the way to go. Of course hindsight is always 20/20 and I could be completely wrong.
“The Man from Earth” features a bunch of unknown actors and is completely devoid of action of any kind. It’s basically about a bunch of people sitting and talking. It’s all based in one room and yet I wasn’t bored for a second coz the story was so compelling. Even the fact that technically it was very shoddy didn’t detract from it.
But please keep in mind when I argue about stars vs unknown actors I only do so discussing the merits of the film. The fact that it’s impossible for a film without actors to get distribution is not lost on me. So I keep that aspect of the filmmaking process detached when watching a film and only judge it on it’s merits. Selling it is the job of the producer and not of the cineaste.
That’s why I say that Experimental Features are few and far between because they stakes are so high and the prospect of ROI is minimal.
@ Mithun, ohno, dear I can make pretty octopus, never as jelly o. lol And I never knew ppl eat jellyfish, but who knows, worlds weirdest dish include insects to rotten shark, eeek. All these lil eyed ppl, chinese, jap and taiwan ppl eat those typo.
hmm, U maybe shocked to know the city I call home, cos I am someone who adore Bolly cinema, without speaking in that lingo, without related to India, but from my childhood onwards as bdays and Eid celebrations, I am treated with Hindhi cinema tickets. hahaha for watching and as a kid I started watching Amithabs movies.. to MITHUN haha it even go with Raj Kiran, oh boy, and then it ends up to Amir Khan, Salman and lastly to SRK. Did U know I watched a film called Lubna and cried, hehe but then I was only 12 yrs. I cant help, I cried when Kanwaljeet, (I think thats his name), when he died in the film.
Btw I am glad I can understand hindhi so that I dont need sub titles and now the surprise, I am not from Bombay, I am from Maldives.:d
@Mithun
I am in France. So I do have access to good food, but not all good movies. ‘No Country For Old Men’ came here a day back! :((
Actually I do cook better stuff(not as good as your stuff though!) but right now I am in this I-hate-cooking phase. Cooking is more fun when one has company.
@Mithun..Mean to say that name actors should take the initiative of creating something new as mentioned in ur article. I gets more fascinated watching realistic movies than flamboyant. And so i believe there is still long way to in bollywood. One has to have Budget, courage(most importarnt) to experiment. And this is expected from a veteran. what do u say?
@Neeraja
OMG you are in the land of escargot, goat cheese, bouillabaisse, hot blooded french women….
Ok maybe the last bit isn’t of much interest to you :d I hope I can save up enough money for my European backpacking trip this summer but I might just go down to Peru instead as my sole French buddy is off to China. The silly sod promised to be there.
Oh to drive down the Cote d Azure. Sigh.
Well I would like to correct you here. I’m not a great cook but rather an enthusiastic and slightly deranged one which basically sums up my entire personality. :d
Cooking is fun when done for a group but alas most of neither me or none of my friends here can cook half decent indian food. What are you studying in Freedomland ?
Btw is it really true that the frogs have an aversion to bathing and drench themselves with perfumes instead? All the dudes and dudettes Ive met here have been fine though.
@Zest
Well Abhay Deol, John Abraham and Saif did work in them. So did Amitabh for that matter in that towering testament to Bo Derek called “Boom” :d
Man that one shot of AB’s reaction was worth the price of admission. Sadly the rest of the film left me scratching my head.
@Mithun
You will climb Machu Picchu?…the stellar void of the final steps and the vertiginous spiralling road (Neruda!)
Ah! Peru
How about doing a ‘Holiday’? You come to Europe in summer and I’ll go to Latin America
You cook from Larousse Gastronomique but you can’t cook decent Indian food? What a shame! One thing I love to cook is gulab-jamuns they are not very good, but what the hell, they are gulab-jamuns!
Ya, I do see you in better light now. Food and women (hot blooded, which in case of france is I guess largely due to excessive smoking!) and food comes before women.
Tell me something, what’s the deal with this western world’s fascination for eccentricity and craziness?
PS: French men are not bad either and no they don’t smell bad. They can’t afford to because they have to go very close to other people to greet them.
I do pure mathematics.
Funny that you used ‘freedomland’ for this country which has right now a man like Sarkozy in power.
Anyway, that(Sarkozy) reminded me of this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7195788.stm
@Neeraja
Yes Machu Pichu awaits. Of course the call of Florence, Barcelona and Paris is great too. Im def gonna skip UK completely. Frigging expensive place with terrible weather.
I never dated any French woman so just going by the stereotype.
And that entire Freedomland thing is a pun. When France opposed the Iraq War, Right Wing Americans started calling chips Freedom Fries instead of French Fries. I find that hilarious.
Indian food needs many components and masalas to get it right. Plus the recipes always focus on 4 people or more so if it’s a disaster there is a lot of inedible food involved. Plus a lot more dishes to clean.
I guess in the Western World the biggest sin is to be plain vanilla. Individualism is such a big deal here that blending in the crowd is looked down upon. It has it pitfalls too though. Im currently laid out with food poisoning after my umpteenth abortive attempt to successfully digest half price sushi.
Poor Sarkozy. I mean I have no clue what his politics are but it reminds me of my friend who had to place a phone call to his mom diplomatically telling her that he would be accompanied by his gf when he came home visiting after the semester. Ah home sweet home. So charmingly Victorian. :d
PS - If your homework is Pure Maths I’ll take advertising every day of the week and twice on sunday.
aww..how’re you now?
french fries -> freedom fries. wokay! I get it now. american ‘joke’ I was not aware of.
and poor sarkozy :O
whatever you say, please don’t use ‘poor’ and ‘Sarkozy’ together again!
You make maths look really bad! It’s actually fun but yeah homework is bad by the very definition.
I suffer from a chronic hatred of maths in any form so don’t take it personally. Im sure the sound of crunching numbers and the intricacies of astral physics are as much a source of joy to you as Springsteen is to me.
@Mithun, you have got the gift of writing. It is a real pleasure to read your posts. But you writing lacks ’substance’ (please don’t get offended, i am scared to write anything these days, because no one want to listen to any criticism. they either ignore it, or attack me personally) I have read your post at-least five times before i write this.
Even though there are many contradictions within, your point seems to be this: experimental cinema is needed to push the art further, and since it is too expensive and risky to experiment in feature films, the role has to be given to music videos and commercials, once they perfect these experiments it can be used in feature films. And if filmmakers want to make feature films with some sort of experiment they better do it low cost by no expensive actors and use cheeper digital technology, so that the producer wont get hurt if the experiment doesn’t work.
I don’t think advertising and music videos are going to be the front runners for feature films. As a person who worked in advertising for 10 years and having written many commercials i can tell you. Feature films and commercials are two completely different forms, their commitments are totally different thus the from. Yes commercials and music videos contribute few techniques and special effects to cinema, the Bullet Time kind of stuff. But are those tricks going to push cinema to the next level? - a big NO.
When Ram made Lets Talk, it was not that he perfected some style / technique in commercials and used it in his feature film. He was planing to shoot a proper 35-mm film, but while shooting some of the rehearsal sessions on a video camera he found that the performances in front of video camera happened to be more natural and believable, so he shot the rest of the film in video. That crucial decision is what resulted in an excellent film. I don’t think it has anything to do with the history of the commercials Ram has made.
On the other hand Tarsem made Cell, borrowing lot form the techniques he perfected in commercials. See the film, it is just series of ’stunning’ visuals, they fail to contribute to the overall integrity of the film.
Back to the point, so these Bullet Time, stunning visual style and special effects of music videos and commercials are not going to define the cinema of tomorrow. Infact in our time, when human beings are bombarded with numerous visual forms, if a filmmaker has to create a new experience and hold the audience attention he or she has to find a new language. (You have used the word ‘engrossing’ i am using a milder term ‘attention’, but we are talking about the same thing) That new language can not be borrowed from the same set of visual media cinema has to try to differentiate itself from (it is logical). I am not the only one saying this, many filmmakers who are committed towards their art are grappling with this thought in this point of time.
And efforts are being made by many interesting filmmakers to address this issue. Dogme95 is a good example - a total denial of the conventional method. (www.dogme95.dk) There are about 50-films made across the world based on Dogme95 method till today. Please see Thomas Vinterberg’s Dogme95 film ‘Celebration’.
It is interesting that you have spoken about using digital technology and making experimental films. Yes many serious filmmakers have picked up the advantage of this technology and tried to push the limits of cinema. Russian film maker Alexander Sokurov made Russian Arc which is a 90min film in single shot. It has more than 1000 people etc, anyway that is a different matter.
Abbas Kiarostami (Iran) has used digital technology and made a brilliant film called Ten. (Just few people in a car) And he pushed his experiment further by making Five. He made these films in digital not because it is cheep technology, it was an aesthetic choice. Kiarostami has spoken about the reason behind this choice in his documentary 10 on Ten. You can see part of that documentary in this youtube link (Warning: you may develop nausea because he is an Iranian:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0W2Zjq6YIc
I find it strange that these things didn’t come to your notice when you writing about experiments in cinema.
Another big time contradiction i see is that you yourself is not very experimental, you have your own very fixed idea of cinema, and a nonnegotiable taste. As a result you choose not to engage with some great filmmakers who have experimented throughout their career…..Fellini, Bresson, Godard, Kiarostami…..So what is the integrity of your article when you write about the need for experimental cinema?
I believe when you are committed towards something deep down, it shows in the writing.
Sorry to be harsh at few places, that was not my intention. I genuinely feel that with your kind of excellent writing skill and style, you should focus more on the content.
G
@Girish
You can be rest assured that I don’t get riled or offended when the point of contention is a mere difference of opinion regarding aesthetic tastes. I would be a very poor student of zen if I let a healthy discussion degenerate to an online flame war with each side making allegations and assumptions towards a totally unknown adversary.
So for the time being let us merely feint and parry.
I totally agree to the following points you make
1) I lack substance / sensitivity
2) I am full of contradictions
3) I have a very strong opinion of what my likes and dislikes are and am not easily swayed.
The lack of substance I attribute to two things. The first is my mostly happy go lucky approach to life and the other is that I have not experienced life enough to be empathic about certain themes raised by your favorite filmmakers.
I have been lucky enough to not have suffered the pangs of unrequited love, suffered the pain of losing a loved one, been the victim of violence or ever been sexually repressed etc etc. If all this leads to a lack of substance as you put it trust me I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.
My real name is Mithun “Contradiction” Gangopadhayay and I have no compunctions whatsoever in speaking my mind. I don’t believe that just coz somebody is older, wiser or richer than me I should immediately acquiesce to his viewpoint. Sorry buddy I ain’t that kind of Indian.
Now let me address the issue I have with your comments. You seem to be a bit patronizing when you talk about sutff like Sokurov,Festen, Dogma etc etc. Instead of finding it offensive I actually find it amusing that you would assume I am unaware of them.
Another really weird thing is your dogged belief that each individual should like the kind of films which you consider great. It’s called secularism dude. You are not the moral/aesthetic guardian of cinema on PFC so don’t aspire for a non-existent job.
All the films that you mentioned were not big budget films and most of them contained actors and not stars. The use of stars in truly experimental and personal films might prove to be a hindrance rather than an asset. The choice of digital technology is both aesthetic as well as budgetary and I never claimed otherwise.
What I did say was that I have a real issue with filmmakers who feel its their divine right to play king in the castle with other people’s money and basically jerk off with no coherent thought given to the process.
If you are familiar with Michel Gondry or David Fincher you would be aware that they cut their teeth on music videos and commercials for about a decade before embarking on features and becoming one of the most acclaimed and admired filmmakers on the planet. The point is that they were given a platform to experiment in the short form. Any practising filmmaker will tell you that content is always influenced by form and vice versa. It’s a symbiotic relationship.
Very sadly though that is not the case in India as the music video scene is dismal and the copy for commercials isn’t really pathbreaking either. I think I’ll blame that on all you.
I think your somewhat charming indignation towards me stems from the fact that you assume I am an intellectual and are baffled by my perceived lowbrow tastes. I am nothing of the sort and have never claimed to be “a man of substance” which I’m sure you think you are. I have always been wary of people who praise themselves before the world praises them.
If you still find issue with my writing and tastes you are cordially invited to not read any future articles. No hard feelings I hope.
PS - The nausea comment about Iranian cinema was in really poor taste and implied racism. I hope you retract it.
Art, expressionism and the Film….
A few days ago I had a dream. In that dream I came up with an idea of making a movie without actually involving a camera. Next, I proposed my idea to an online community (read, slashdot) and there it was quickly modded down as retarded and absurd… so…
@Mithun,
I retract the nausea comment…sorry about that. Also my sincere apologies if i have crossed the limit anywhere. I have no intention to act superior or anything, i just writing about a subject i feel very strongly about.
regarding the discussion, may be it is a better idea that now on i will ask you few questions than making any of my own assumptions on what you have written.
Question no 1.
Since you have been aware of Dogme95, Sokurov’s experiment and Kiarostami’s experiments how come you haven’t mentioned about any of these in your article?
Answer no 1
I left out a lot more stuff than I mentioned. I wanted this piece to be primer that would intrigue people into finding more about experimental film on their own.
The path I chose to do so was to attempt to explain how experimental techniques seep their way into mainstream eventually and the necessity for patronage. Dogma Im sure everyone has heard or is aware of it’s influence so it wasn’t mentioned. As for the other two I wasn’t able to quantify their influence on the mainstream. Hence the exclusion.
The position I take is that experimental cinema should be nurtured for a selfish purpose and not just an altruistic motive. There are so many different filmmakers out there that it’s impossible to like all.
A really good friend of mine loves John Cameron Mitchell but I don’t really rate him that much.
She on the other hand can’t fathom my obsession with Maya Deren and thinks “Meshes of the Afternoon” is boring.
To each his own and while we should support all different art forms in principle as a collective the idea that one should individually support everything isn’t feasible. Chalk it down to taste.
@the imagineers
I was gonna recommend that you watch Black Ice but I see you have already discovered Brakhage.
As one of my friends said that despite what people say the story is not indispensable to cinema. What really counts is the experience. Whenever I watch Black Ice it seems like Im on an interstellar trip passing through a wormhole.
@Mithun
Question no: 2
“As for the other two I wasn
I dunno whatever you call the kind of films that release in NY. Im a Voice fanatic so try and watch all the films that get good reviews in it. It’s very counterculture so its cool.
By Danish mainstream I assume you mean dogma ? But the influence of dogma is pervasive so I felt that no point stating stating the obvious.
@ Mithun,
Sorry i am not familiar with NY and doesn’t know hat films get released there, so you will have to help me with this, please make it little more clear.
Well basically all the indie and arthouse flicks are released either in LA or NY in limited releases. Based on the response the studios decide whether to go wide or not. The Village Voice is a NY based free weekly counterculture newspaper which covers all the films released no matter how obscure.
If the film gets a good review I usually go watch it and the films are from all across the world. Though some feel the paper is biased against big budget studio films I find it to be amongst the best and fair reviews anywhere. Bourne Ultimatum got outstanding reviews while The Kingdom got trashed.
They don’t just look at the films in isolation but also the political and social comment that the films make. Needless to say the paper is very liberal.