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When outsiders were preferred over regular singers : a question to music lovers
There have been many good female singers in the hindi cinema right from the days of Noorjahan and Suraiya. Geeta Dutt, Suman Kalyanpur and Sudha Malhotra all gave good and hit songs and their songs were able to compete with the songs of any good female singers active in those years. They all have many songs where question of comparison with other singers does not arise and listener is fully satisfied with their singing only. They have got many songs of their own.
Even it is hard to imagine that any other female singer could have sung Afsana Likh Rahee hoon dil e bekarar ka (Dard 1947), better than the Uma Devi, who later became famous in her new incarnation of Tun Tun-the famous female comedian.
Inspite of the fact that so many good female singers always remained active in the hindi cinema Lata Mangeshkar and Asha Bhonsle shined more because of their consistency and quality and fact that most of the composers gave them preference over other singers as far as play back singing was concerned.
But not to mention that its not possible for a play back singer active in the area like film music to lift any song simply because of her/his voice only where s/he is not supported by a good tune by music composer and good lyrics by the poet. Such things are possible only in the case of classical singers, they don’t need support of lyrics or tune and they can carry audience in to the trance simply by their singing ability. KL Saigal can be said as an exception here in the field of film music because his songs were primarily dependent on his singing in his golden voice.
Cinema music is a blend of three things, capacity (good voice and range) of a singer, good composition and good lyrics. Its not that Lata Mangeshkar, the top name in the singers, has not given us songs which don’t appeal to us. Like any other singer she also has given us many weak songs because she did not get support of good composition and good lyrics there and a song can not be saved on the basis of her high quality voice only.
Cinema music is a team work. A good composer with the help of a good singer and a good lyricist is always able to create immortal songs and it has been proved time and again since the beginning of play back singing in the hindi cinema. If any of the three elements is weak then age of that song will be less. Tune may bring a song some instant popularity but song can not last long simply on this basis.
This has happened many a times that a good song, fitting in the above mentioned aspects, has not got good picturization and hence it does not look good in the film but still it gets the long life because of the good listening quality it brings to the audience.
Many good songs have been there in B and C grade films where viewership of the film has been found less at the time of release of the films because audiences naturally prefer the good films during the releasing times.
Though it is also true that because such films were not successful so this fact, to some extent, affected the success of the music of such films also at that time when the films were released and many beautiful songs never could make their places in the charts of blockbuster songs but it is also true that such good songs have not died over the years and a number of music lovers have been buying music albums of such films. Whenever one gets an opportunity to come across such songs, their lives are prolonged further and some times people watch such obscured films just because of this new encounter with their wonderful music.
OP Naiyaar and RD Burman have many films falling in this category where their outstanding music was used in some very low graded films and many of their films were not released even and if released they got limited or no success and this fact affected the fate of music at that time when these films were released but over the years music of those films have denied to die and songs of such films have kept alive the memories of those films also.
Though playback music in the films does not require classical singers but many a times music composers have chosen classical singers to sing the songs. But music composers do not use voice of the classical singer for the main character, unless character is a classical singer in the film also. For example Mishra Brothers- Pt. Rajan Mishra and Pt. Saajan Mishra have sung for the Girish Karnad in a film, Sur-Sangam.
In Mughal-i-Azam, Bade Ghulam Ali Khan had sung the song- Prem Jogan Ban ke- played in the background and it was to show the presence of Miyan Tansen in the film.
Ram Lal, a wonderful music composer, who was criminally ignored by the hindi film industry and who has given us soulful music in the two beautiful films, Geet Gaya Pattharon ne and Sehra, had used Kishori Amonkar to give play back to Rajshree in the song Saanso ke taar par, dhadhkan ki taal par, dil ki pukar ka, rang bhare pyar ka, in the film,GGPN.
Asha Bhonsle had sung duet form of the same song along with Mahendra Kapoor, and perhaps their duet might have fetched more attention from the audience of that time. Only die hard lovers of music will go on to differentiate between the songs sung by Kishori Amonkar and Asha Bhonsle+Mahendra Kapoor.
Ram Lal had used Kishori Amonkar only in one song in GGPN and earlier in Sehra he had used voices of the regular singers Asha, Lata, Rafi and Heman Kumar only. Kishori Amonkar perhaps did not sing any other song in any other film later.
Famous music composers have seldom used singers from outside in the films to take their voices for main characters. Though each composer had his own choice but still they used to select singers among the singers already active and established in the film music.
Only few unconventional composers like Khayyaam and Jaidev could be said as music composers who brought voices of classical singers and singers, established in singing other than filmi play back singing, for the songs picturised on heros and heroines.
Khayaam had used Kabban Mirza’s voice for Dharmendra in Razia Sultan.
Song Ayee Zanzeer ki jhankaar
Khayaam has been using voices of singers like his wife Jagjit Kaur in many songs.
RD Burman also used Parveen Sultana in Kudrat where she sang such a beautiful song Hamein tumse pyar kitna but it was picturised on Aruna Irani and not on Hema Malini.
Runa Laila was given the chance to sing for the heroines in few films.
But the best effort was reserved for the Jaidev. It was in his fortune to use a Classical Singer to sing one of the most beautiful songs of Hindi cinema and this song was picturised on the heroine of the film.
If someone writes that song, singer and perhaps name of the film then it may lead to a post
“When “X” scored over Lata and Asha”.
28 Responses to “When outsiders were preferred over regular singers : a question to music lovers”
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Is it Runa laila for the film Gharonda?The song is Tumhe ho na ho mujko to.Music director was Jaidev.We can also mention here Aarti Mukherjee who got the national award for the song Do naina aur ek kahani in the film Masoom.But the music director was R.D Burman.
Chhaya ganguli for aap ki yaad aati rahi raat bhar?
Is it Vani Jairam? She sang for Hema Malini in ” Meera” and I guess Lataji had a fight with Gulzar since she wanted to sing the whole album whereas he wanted Vani to sing all other numbers except the one he offered Lataji to sing.
It’s probably Chhaya Ganguly as mentioned by Neeraja - picturised on Smita Patil in Gaman.. although the jury’s out on whether this is a gem that scores over anything in Lata or Asha’s vast repertoire.
If anything, for off-beat films like Gaman it’s atypical to use the Mangeshkars anyway.. Vanraj Bhatia has just one song with Lata for instance.
I feel Kumari Fayyaz in Alaap scores over Lata in the same soundtrack - although I don’t know if the song was picturised on the lead.
That was indeed another era! Classical singers cannot be accomodated everywhere but yes there are times where you caanot do without them…and thats what legends are made of. This was quite popular phenomena in 60s and 70s. Came across this article about 60s music of bollywood.
@Anindya,
No Runa Laila is not the singer of the song I am trying to bring in focus.
First Runa Laila is not a Classical Singer. Same is true with Aaarti Mukharjee. AM has been bengali playback singer. she sang few songs in Hindi films in 70s.
@Neerja,
No its not Chhaya Ganguli.
@SJ,
Vani Jairam sang first in Guddi and then she was not a famous singer. I dont recall at the moment if she ever sang any song for Jaidev.
Yes she had sung songs of Meera but your story about Lata ji, Gulzar saab could be wrong and facts may be other way round or perhaps Lata ji did not wish to sing songs because she already had sung Meera Bhajans almost at same time.
@Vikram,
I dont exactly recall if - Aap ki yaad aati rahi - was sung by Smita Patil on screen as it can be used as a song in background. It may happen but it hardly has happened because normally main lead would not be given the thick voices of Chhaya Ganguli, Abida Parveen, Reshma, Shubha Mudgal etc. Especially after knowing that Noorjahan, Suraiya, Lata, Asha, Geeta Dutt, Suman Kalyanpur, Sudha Malhotra etc were strongly established names in the film music and their voices were remarkably different than Ghazal singers and classical singers and they had done a body of work in all those years.
Aap ki yaad ati rahi (Chhaya Ganguli),
Saiyan ruth gaye (Shobha Gurtu)
and other such songs like Kivadiya na khatkana etc are different and here we can not compare them with songs sang by regular play back singers.
Same is true for Alaap’s score. Kumari Fayaaz’s song is entirely in different category. She sings for Sarju Bai (Chhaya Devi) and not for Rekha.
But no doubt Nai ri lagan has longest life in whole Alaap’s album and even more than ayi ritu sawan ki.
Alaap is a very good album and better than the film itself.
Off beat films have this wonderful liberty that they could do experiments in every area and we got a variety of things in these films and their music is one such great achievement and audience get very different songs.
The song I have in my mind comes in the category of songs listed in the post itself.
Songs Sanason ke taar par, and hamein tumse pyar kitna etc they are sung by both classical singers and regular play back singers in the same film.
But song I wish to quote was given to the classical singer, perhaps purely on the technical basis.
but song does not as unusual song like aapki yaad and saiyan ruth gaye.
Quoting about Lata ji. In those years she also was giving us gems like ” Aap yun faslon se gujarate rahe”
@Ridhima,
True classical singers can not be reduced to give playback for every song or regular characters in the films can not be lifted at that level always where they have privieldge of having voices of classical singers. It will look odd.
I will not call using classical singers in the hindi films as quite popular phenomenon in any decade because we dont have many such songs wehre classical singers have given playback to the characters of the films. We can count all such songs on fingers in entire history of Hindi cinema.
Rk: some coincidence this. Only y’day, I and Pavan were discussing Jaidev and his amazing output in little known films. Purely going by your tastes, I will go for
Hiradevi Mishra’s “arey pathik giridhaari soon … aajaa sanwariyaa, ras ke bhare tore nain sanwariyaa” from Gaman. It was later reused in Monsoon Wedding.
I have a feeling that Lakshmi Shankar’s “Bani teri bindiya ki le loo re balaiyyan” from Do Boond Pani may also fit the bill
@Subrat,
True, Jaidev’s wonderful music is used in some forgotten films or in commercially failed films but its also true that even if he had given music only 1-2 films like Ram Lal then also he would have been remembered because such is the greatness lying in his songs. In most popular Hum Dono and Mujhe Jeene Do are sufficient and with little more knowledge about him and Gaman and Alaap are obvious proof of his brilliance.
You did not record your Baithak with Pavan about music else it could have been a wonderful record of a discussion between two knowers and we also could have enjoyed it later.
Yours is a narrow escape but I know very well that you and Pavan know the song. This is about rest of the world. And its not a big search. Music director Jaidev is known and he did not do much work.
Soon the song should be revealed by someone.
Pt. Bhimsen Joshi sang for Jaidev in Ankahi. Great Movie and great music.
@Arun,
Music of Ankahee was certainly great, but cant be sure about greatness of the film. This was more like rehash version of Rishi Kapoor and Jeetendra Starrer Badalte Rishte.
Some more other singer examples
Aaj Gaavat Man - DVpaluskar & Aamir Khan - Baiju Bawra
Chhed Diye ( picturized on Kishoire Kumar ) - Aamir Khan - Raagini
Daya Karo - Aamir Khan - Shabaab
Ghaat Ghaat Mein - Phiroze Dastoor - Bhumika
Jaoon Tore Charan Kamal - Rajan Sajan Mishra - Sur Sangam
Jhanak Jhanak Paayal Baaje - Aamir Khan
Jogiya Mere Ghar - Aamir Khan - Raagini
Kaahe Kaanha - Laxmishankar - Bawarchi
Kaun Ghadi - Parveen Sultana - Paakizah
Madar Baaju Re - Saraswati Raane - Bhumika
Madhuban Mein Raadhika ( pic on Mukri ) - Kohinoor
O Mrignayani - Vasantrao Deshpande & Faiyyaaz - Rang Birangi
Raagmaala - Ustaad Mustafa Khan - Umrao Jaan
Ram Prabhu - Bhimsen Joshi - Sant Tulsidas
Shubh Ghadi - Parveen Sultana - Razia Sultan
oops forgot to put the artist name in Kohinoor - Niaz Ahmed Khan
KL Saigal can be said as an exception here in the field of film music because his songs were primarily dependent on his singing in his golden voice.
———
I dont quite agree. Singing on Screen was a phenomenon those days and to add to this we had one more - K L Saigal. It was more of an awe-factor
All IMHO
@Kcp (15),
big list and you left only few songs sung by classical singing based non-filmi singers.
@Kcp(17),
Awe factor? May be for some but can not be for music directors who already had established their names and bigger name than the singers.
True actors used to sing themselves but then better singers came to and play back singing was started.
Ashok Kumar was the biggest star and he also sang few songs himself. If awe factor was true then Ashok Kumar could have remained as singing star because his name mattered on BO and commercial success is first thing which matter for filmwala people because that ensures their survival to make another film.
We had only 3 singing stars, KL Saigal, Noorjahan and Suraiya. Mukesh and Talat Mehmood got more success in singing than acting because they were better singers than actors. Kishore Kumar is the other name who got success in both the fields.
I will not call KL Saigal as very successful or better actor than the singer KL Saigal. Singer Saigal was far bigger and more talented than actor KL Saigal.
Acting ways were different in his time.
Difference can be seen in the PC Barua’s Devdas and Bimal Roys Devdas.
KLSaigal’s act gives realistic impression but we will not call it piece of art and especially after watching Dilip Kumars indepth portrayal of Devdas in later version. DK’s Devdas is height of acting. Perhaps its not realistic because in real life we will not watch such fine behaviour but then films are meant to grow in every field and Dk’s Devdas brings artistic satisfaction. It brings beauty in the performance. By this act we can be in awe.
—-
Voice of KL Saigal-
Such sweetness is heard only in the voices of Kumar Gandharv and Pt Jasraj. These three singers can do magic with their singing only, does not matter what they are singing and words have meaning or not. Rest all singers need meaningful words and interesting tunes.
Alaap makes a difference and if since begining voice of the singer pulls the audience then its magic of singer’s voice.
Recording were bad in those times of KLS. and in many of his songs orchestra looks odd and not pleasant to the ears but never his singing.
i know a few oldies who say that the main ingredients were music and lyrics of the 30’s and Saigal was only a topping. All different views. I have said it earlier ( in different forums ) that male film singers like KLS, Manna, Talat, Mukesh, Rafi, Kishore and Hemant have to be put in a separate category. We cannot say that one is better than other for “music-sake”. All have their own charm and unique qualities. Most of the songs that each singer has sung could have sung by a different singer, in his own trademark style, with that same music director giving it a different tratment, but sounding equally magical to our ears.
@Kcp,
True what you say about keeping all the great singers in their own category.
But in category we also know that categories also are defined by their merits and shortcomings. Without making them superior or inferior than each other, we have been enjoying each of them.
With years of listening we certainly know in which category these singers were good or equal or weaker than others.
This is quite true that capable singers can sing songs sung by others. Lata Ji’s Shradhanjali is a better example.
But we also know that truth is never a limited thing. Our seeing is limited. Truth has many faces and looking in all possible directions and dimensions.
We know who has has sung better Gazals, semi classical and bit more classical, funny and sad songs. Who can go towards classical singing and who can not go at all.
Who can sing bhajans better than others.
KLS songs are easily available. We dont need a 80 year old alive person to tell us something about forgotten era. If we have some knowing in music we easily can decide ourselves about KLS songs. whether it was music, lyrics of the 30s or his voice.
Voice matters a lot. Lata Ji had that sweet touch till some 25-30 years ago. She still has better voice compared to all other living singers but her present voice is nothing compared to her voice used in the songs of 50s and 60s.
We have a better example in Shailendra Singh.
Singer who sang Bobby’s songs and then Purvaiya leke chali meri naiya in Do Jasoos, sounds almost pathetic when sing in cacophonous manner in Hum Apke Hain kaun and some later films.
and KLS can not be compared with generation of Rafi, Kishor, Manna De, Mukesh etc.
They learnt something from him and he did not learn from them. Guru and Shishyas should not be compared. Shishya may earn bigger name than Guru but then they do it in different era.
You may recall very well Rafi had denied to sing together with Mahendra Kapoor because he did not want to bring a comparison between guru and shishya.
Today a small actor earn more money and attention than Ashok Kumar and Dilip Kumar used to get in their supreme days but that does not make him better actor than such a fine actors. These new actors have learnt from elders and have made their career by following them while elders had no such models before them.
We know many have sung,
Mohe aayee na jag se laaj, but who has sung it better.
We know many have sung Chupke Chupke raat din asoon bahana yaad hai but we know who is the best singer for this.
many have sung ranjish hi sahi but inspite of this variety we know the best singer for this song.
We dont compare these singers but we know for sure which song of which singer brings bigger satisfaction to us and who has achieved more heights and whose song is closer to our hearts. we dont compare them overall because each has given us many great songs. We love and respect them for that.
But this does not stop us to listen better songs. and it will not be injustice to say that these greats are responsible to create that awareness in us because they gave us quality and trained us to recognise the better things and they have given better things in their own categories.
We can always prefer Menhdi Hasan in gazals but we will give preference to Rafi, KK, Mukesh etc in filmi songs because their expertise areas are different.
Some comments : I will never compare KLS to Rafi or Kishore or Manna. But for example Manna could almost sing all comedy Kishore songs, albeit in his own (and modified MD’s ) style. Manna could have sung Rafi songs. Rafi could have sung Mukesh or Talat’s songs. Again with their own magical voices. Kishore could have sung all songs except pure classical ( on his own admission that he did not like singing it ) and so on.
Shraddhanjali’s have to be kept at a distance when compared to originals. Lata or no Lata.
Also we have to consider the age of the artists when they sang the songs ( originals or shraddhanjalis )
I for one cannot determine what was good..the music or KLS voice. Unfortunately the KLS era was different. It would have given goosepimples to people hearing a “voice” so much so that everything else would be pale enough. The generations later have heard so much of youthful and light music, that the music of the 30’s looks pale !! it all depends on the outlook RK.
you say Guru shishya and thats exactly why I included KLS in the great males singers list, so that his name cannot be compared to anybody.
I do not recall the Rafi-Mahendra Kapoor kissa. All I know that I have an interview of Rafi from the 60’s where he had praised MK a lot and said that he was a promising singer. I will quote the interview on Saturday when I get hold of it in a different PC. Also MK and Rafi were family friends from 1948 ( the famous kissa of MK meeting Rafi ! ) Rafi used to advise MK to have his individuality.
Today’s actors ( the young chaps especially ) have well past the inspiration-level in the films. They are really a new generation actors.
BTW Ashok Kumar was the first person in the industry to own a Rolls Royce.
@Kcp,
Rafi-MK stories are quite easy to read everywhere.
——–
http://123india.santabanta.com/cinema.asp?pid=10992
Rafi did refuse to sing with me: Mahendra Kapoor
—————————————————
I used to play the tanpura for Rafi saab: Mahendra Kapoor
Dwelling at length on his relationship with the legendary playback singer Mohammed Rafi, Kapoor says: “Rafi saab had made it very clear, much before my career hit a high note, that we should not sing together, mainly because of two reasons. One because we shared a guru-chela relationship and there should be no competition between us and secondly because our voices are very similar.”
http://www.mohdrafi.com/web/i-used-to-play-the-tanpura-for-rafi-saab-mahendra-kapoor.html
———
RK, somehow I am uncomfortable in the recently published interviews, especially on the internet.
Rafi and MK did share the mic twice, together. Both film versions. As late as Aadmi ( 1968 ) - Kaisi Haseena
Also the film version of the song “Do Akalmand Huye Fikarmand” had a few lines of MK singing with KK & Rafi
I always believing in first hand stories, printed/heard especially when both parties were alive.
Old interviews of Rafi or MK ( I have quite a few ) do not say anything of this sort.
@Kcp(25),
There will certainly be few more songs where MK has sung together with Rafi. and there will be films where they have sung different songs. Amar Akbar Anthony is an example.
And this kissa is not available only in Internet era. This was known before Internet was even heard.
This kissa is about a film in late 1950s. Perhaps it was a BR Chopra Film and we can see that Gumrah Onwards Ravi has given the music for BR films and MK has sung the songs.
I dont find any objectionable thing in this story that MK has to speak lies when Rafi is not present.
Its an ordinary incident and says nothing against Rafi or MK.
@Kcp(23),
I am not sure if “Voice” factor can be taken away while considering “Vocal Music”.
Avaaj hi pehchan hai.
If voice is not a factor then atleast 80% Indians could have become singers as almost all the people sing something sometime.
Choices and likings are personal things. No denial in that. But acceptance of merits in somebody can not be based on personal preference.
I can quote an example which I might have quoted earlier also in some other discussion.
Song-Ek Ladki ko Dekha in 1942 A Love Story.
Tune by RDB- good
Lyrics - above average
Singing of Kumar Sanu - Below average.
Song can not be listened continuously because of the voice factor though attractive tune insists on playing it again.
If voice is not a criteria then Amit Kumar could have become another Kishor Kumar.
Nitin Mukesh could have become another Mukesh and several Rafi’s clones could have sent him in to the oblivion.
I dont think limitations of a singer in some fields drag them down from their great places they have earned for themselves because of their great work in their territories.
Its not blasphemy for me to quote those limitations within right context. My respect does not become less for them.
Re: Shradhanjali is absolutely fine if orchestra is not a re-mix version and a singer is capable.
If good can come out then why not. audience may listen both the versions.
Why music directors borrow traditional songs then? This is kind of Shradhanjali act.
and your objection to Shardhanjali defies your theory about Voice. If songs are not dependent on voice then why do you feel objection if same song is sung by somebodyelse?
Its true it depends on Outlook. But outlook does not ask to be closed from rest of the world.
then there is an interesting situation where two singers sing same song in a single film. Everytime same singer can sing that song. But often we get same song in male and female voices and sometimes two different male/female singers sing same song and songs are used at different places in the film.
For example: KK sings Zindagi to bewafa hai for Amitabh in Muqadar ka sikandar and Rafi sings same song but in sad tone for Vinod Khanna.
RK@26
Mohd Rafi in his interview published on Nov 27th 1964 in Filmfare and I quote “This flood of new talent cannot be withheld by the straws of negative thinking. I assure you that I am really afraid of my very dear young student Mahendra Kapoor, who will excel me but I sincerely want all young newcommers surpass me”
This clearly tells that Rafi will not put any restrictions on MK.
The story of Yash Chopra telling that this voice is of Rafi ( the song was actually sung by MK for Sohni Mahiwal/Naushad) is quite well known to me. But this does not imply that Rafi said that he did not want to sing with MK !!