Where are the muslims?
Aamir Khan, Imran Khan, Abbas Tyrewala, Mansoor Khan.
They are the above-the-line talent associated with the recent smash Jaane Tu, and there were quite a few “technicians” with similar sounding names. What they have in common is that they are culturally muslim as indicated by their names. I don’t know what their personal religious practices are and it doesn’t concern me. or YOU.
Jaane Tu is the archetypal Bollywood film, a youthful romance musical with some comedy, melodrama, and action thrown in. Most of our matinee idols have made their debuts with such films. They all have one more commonality. The protagonists are never muslim characters. This actually also extends to other genres such as thrillers, mindless comedies, mindful comedies and David Dhawan films.
The only genre film that regularly portrays muslim characters is the gangster film.
I should be a little more specific. I am talking about characters where them being muslim is not a plot point or theme. I can count the examples from recent times on one hand. Jimmy Shergill character in Munnabhai, Uday Chopra in the Dhooms, the woman in Taare Zameen Par, Dor and Iqbal.
I am going to examine what the possible reasons could be, including strawmen and see which are valid.
Muslims are a minority making up only 10-15% of the population
True. One may argue that Madhya Pradesh with a population contribution of nearly a tenth has suffered a greater injustice since the only character ever to grace the screen is in Sholay. I for one think all Madhya Pradeshis are exactly like Soorma Bhopali since I have no other point of reference.
The difference though is that muslims are over-represented in Bollywood, in both above and below the line talent. One may also argue that I use the word talent without discretion, and that too would be true. Lets look at a similar enough situation. Jews in Hollywood. It is common knowledge that they control the town. Producers, directors, agents, studio bosses, execs. A good chunk there. Wouldn’t it be odd if we never saw any Jewish characters as protagonists on film? No Adam Sandler movies which may not be an entirely bad thing.
Bollywood Industry does not like muslims
Bolly is a microcosm of India and it showcases the best and worst of India. Nepotism, and moral bankruptcy on one hand and true secularism and non-regionalism on the other. This should be readily apparent with all the muslims that make their living there.
It’s hard to make movies without song/dance that revolve around Hindu customs/festivals
Only YRF will be out of business, and we can all be happy for that. The rest of them can continue making movies.
Hindu majority India hates muslims and does not want to see them succeed
Could this be the case? Back in the day, the Yusufs and Begum Jahans had to Hinduize their names, probably looking for public acceptance. But that is not the case today with the preponderance of Khans running around town. I actually used to think that the guy in The Godfather that played Sonny was actually a Bollywood actor.
This gets a little complicated and I’m going to resort to some anecdotalism and analogism here. I have already likened muslims to their co-abrahamists in Hollywood. I’m going to reach for another minority group. Blacks in America. While their specific historical experiences and minority status in their countries could not be more different, there are some similarities that deserve scrutiny.
They are over-represented in high visibility fields that have more to do with talent and ability than with upbringing and opportunities. Athletics and music among the blacks, films with Indian muslims. Also, they are readily identifiable. The skin color of blacks, and names of muslims.
Even in some of the blacklynching backwoods of America, people cheer for black athlete heroes when they play on their home team and say nigger this and that for the opposition. I met a white Afrikaaner guy at a party in Cape town once. He was openly racist about African blacks, but was ok with Indians and African Americans. In fact, our conversation was interrupted when he would break to rap to some Fiddy number that was playing. Racism and bigotry is not without nuance.
After the Gujarat riots, some interviewer actually asked Modi what would have happened if we had lost a talent like Irfan Khan (cricketer) to the riots because he was from a poor muslim family. Modi said something along the lines of “all life is precious, and we should not talk about hindu-muslim.”
I think some of it has to do with treating celebrities like gods and not humans, and treating fellow humans like insects.
The audience is not ready for Hindu-Muslim lou
I was talking to a studio exec and he was telling me about how Hollywood operates regarding black actors. A bunch of suits in LA that have no experience of what the rest of the country is like and whether they are ready for something or not will decide what movies get made and how. The most egregious example of this is Pelican Brief with Julia Roberts and Denzel. It was the most unrealistic relationship. Ever. The usual justification is that America is not ready for miscegenation.
That’s why Denzel never makes out in his movies. It becomes a bit of a quandary for casting directors, because no matter what genre it is, they like to have some obligatory kiss-kiss-grab-grab. They believe that it adds depth of characterization to show the guy and girl falling in love or lust in a bomb-on-a-bus movie. Also, if the guy and girl mack in the end, it’s a nice happy ending, and happy ending movies make more money than sad ones. You can not argue with statistics.
The exec went on to explain that it is not that Hollywood has a bias against blacks, but they don’t know who to cast in the female lead. If they cast a black actress against Will Smith or Denzel, then it becomes a black film that white audiences won’t go to. If they cast a white actress, the masses will be irked and go on a lynching spree.
The solution? Eva Langoria.
Latinas are going to have so much work.
I think muslims in Bollywood are in a similar sitch as people don’t want to have to deal with hindu-muslim relations in every movie. But what about movies like Dil Chahta Hai populated by Peddar Road brats. Is it that hard to imagine one of the 3 friends as a rich muslim character, especially when the director is a muslim, and two of the leads are Khans?
Moneymen in Bollywood don’t want to fund movies with muslim protags
Film financiers have only one goal. ROI. If people will watch them, they will fund them. People will watch them because they seem to have no problems watching heroes and heroines in real life. They can watch them only if someone will step up and make these films.
Which brings me to the last reason.
Muslims and Hindus alike are afraid of fatwa-decreeing mullahs
I read this interview of a top Pakistani actress that acted in a Bollywood film. The name of the actress and the film escapes me. She said something along the lines of “Pakistan is an Islamic country and we can’t have heroes touching and kissing heroines the way Shah Rukh does, so our movies are different.”
This was catalogued by my brain to misquote at a future date. I don’t know if what she said is true and if love is portrayed in Pakistani films without running around trees and wet saris. Where I come from, it is the only expression of love people will understand. I have tried flowers and chocolate. But nothing works like pelvic thrusts to onomatopoeic songs.
Are people afraid that they will hurt muslim sentiments to show muslim characters drinking, clubbing and wooing women? It’s not like we have sex in our movies so I don’t get it.
We know what happened to Rushdie and Taslima. If this is the case, it is odious and people need to wrangle power back.
The Aamirs and Shah Rukhs of the world that wield so much power and influence need to act.
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Add one more horrible new situation to your list: Muslim superstars - lets just mention them by last name… the Khans - have now been threatened that they will be killed if they star in a Hindu director’s film… How stupid is that! I always thought the Indian film industry was the only place where that kind of nonsense was seemingly absent. Thanks for pointing out I was wrong.
JYADATAR HINDI FILMON KE PROTAGANIST AUR ANYA PRAMUKH KIRDAAR HINDU HI HOTE HAIN.UNKE NAAM HINDU PARIVAARON MEIN PRACHLIT NAAM HOTE HAIN.KABHI AISA NAHI HOTA KI EK GENERAL FILM MEIN HERO KA NAAM KHURSHID HO YA HEROINE ZEBUNISA HO…SOCIAL SCIENTIST KAHTE HAIN KE AUDIENCE KI MAJORITY KO DEKHTE HUE FILMMAKERS KABHI MUSLIM HERO KO LEKAR FILM BANANE KI ZURRAT NAHI KAR PATE.HAAN.20-25 SAAL PAHLE MUSLIM SOCIAL KE NAAM SE KUCH FILMEN BANTI THI,JINME MUSLIM CULTURE KI THODI ROMANI JHALAK MILTI THI.PARDA,BURQA,SHER-O-SHAYARI AUR MUSLIM NAFASAT DIKHYI JAATI THI.
want to read more?
http://passionforcinema.com/muslim-herohindi-films/
Dabba,
the audience won’t accept Muslim protagonists. They just wont. Indian people live in ghettos… even in their minds. Why only Muslims? How many Xians, Budhdhists, Jews, poeple from backward castes do you find. For that matter, u wont even find many ‘heroes’ with the sacred thread.
And mind you, this doesn’t protray our secularism. This is just an effort to find out a homogeneous hero.
It’s a myth that Indians are secular. Deep down they are NOT. period.
In most of the muslim socials being made the directors themselves have been muslims.There are exceptions like B.R.Chopra(Nikaah).This is because Hindu directors do not have much knowledge about muslim customs and also because they dont want to get into problems with their films.
@ ajay -
just read ur post. some interesting points.
@ joyjeet -
secularism is a political definition, originally conceived to take away power from the church in europe. The US is secular but that has not prevented neocon christians from bringing W to power twice. India is also a secular country as defined in the constitution. Which only means, that people are free to practice their religion without interference. Let us not try and determine what people feel deep down inside because it is an argument with no end.
as for the other minorities you mentioned, agreed. But they don’t form a big chunk of bollywood. Also, it is difficult for me and I would guess most people to ascertain by a character’s or even the actor’s name what hindu caste they belong to if they are not familiar with that part of the country. I know that Telugu film industry is run by the Kamma caste and the protags typically tend to be from that caste, the Rays in Bengal are brahmins,etc. But i don’t know what caste Jha, Roshan, Oberoi, etc are.
@ anindya -
i’m not talking about muslim socials. i’m talking about regular hindi love stories, or thrillers or comedies where the character is muslim, and there is no terrorism, patriotism, hindu-muslim love angle. In socha na tha, abhay deol’s girlfriend is christian, and i don’t think it becomes a major plot point. It is mentioned in passing that they are not co-religionists, but that’s that. And the direcotr imtiaz ali is a muslim right? that character could well have been a muslim girl no?
especially when there are so many hindu-muslim marriages and offfspring in bollywood.
shahid kapoor - pankaj and neeelima
hrithik and suzann khan
aamir and something rao
shah rukh and gauri
sharmila tagore and pataudi
saif ali and amrita singh
It’s not that difficult for quite a swath of the ticket-paying populace. I concede the scene has changed soemwhat with multiplexes bringing a new audience.
But its not that the Hindu surnames have not been used for manipulation. E.g: The hordes of ‘Thakur’s, Aamit Khan’s cop called ‘Rathore’ in Sarfarosh… There are many instances — may be not all malvolent — of sterotyping.
Coming back to the original Q of ‘Where are the Muslims?’ yes, it’s worth giving a thought, especially since we had writers like Salim-Javed scripting hits after hits with Vijay, Ravi and the ilk.
It will be interesting to know what other readers think.
@ joyjeet -
can u elaborate on the hindu surname bit, thakurs/rathore? as in they are upper caste? what are some BC surnames?
no comments to be honest. dabba i expect some sensible stuff from you.
please elaborate shashank.
smart point there abt ppl will watch muslim characters only when ppl will make them…i seriously dont think any1 cares abt the religion as long as its not the focal point of the movie…i used to wonder before y script oriented movies were not made before…its just cuz they r scared to try new stuff.
The word ‘Muslim’ is being used here rather generically. Where are the muslim women in bollywood today? You would lose count of Khans but muslim actresses? Tabu, Soha, Jiah and perhaps Katrina? Thats it? Where are the liberal muslim women from the liberal muslim families of Aamir, Shah Rukh, Salman, Emraan Hashmi, Fardeen Khan etc? Why are none of them in the movies…..?
Perhaps they ARE afraid of Fatwas..
U r Right Sanjeev.
So many muslim men made JTYJN, but the lead actress is Christian and the other girls in the movie (including Ratna Pathak !) are Hindu. How many muslim heroines have Aamir, SRK, Emraan Hashmi, Saif, Shaahid Kapoor worked with? NOT EVEN ONE EACH. Speaks about the hypocritical community attitude like no amount of data can..
I am not too sure I can agree much with your view that the mainstream audiences are not ready to accept Muslim characters. If you can make a good film around them, no reason why it should not be accepted. I can recall films made around such characters, case in point being Aamir, and it was accepted well. So did the Pak import Khuda Ke Liye. The fact is India is a Hindu majority country and hence most of the films made will be around them.
But let’s also admit, most of the the filmmakers we have today are hardly intelligent anyways. They don’t make films, but blindly put together film packages that can hopefully bring them quick returns, and for them to go on the trodden safe path is the only they they know. Therefor casting Muslim characters as jehadi’s and terrorists is the safe step in that direction at the moment since it’s also a fad nowadays.
But had AAMIR been a super hit, you’d have seen a plethora of similar films named after Saleems, Ahmeds and what nots.
Umm I really didnt understand the point of this write up. Where are the Muslims? What is that even supposed to mean? When it comes to art..all we should be concerned about is the work of the artist..why do we try to assume their religious beliefs based on names they have? Firstly I hate it how SRK, Salman, Salim-Javed, Katrina, Jiah are all grouped together as representatives of Muslims? Excuse me did anyone ever ask them about their beliefs or do we just assume things about them based on their names? Secondly…why should we even bring religion into all this? They are not here to represent any community…Do we look at Sanjay Dutt and Ajay Devgan and refer to them as representatives of Hindus? They are artists..they are here to work..we are the audience..our job is to appreciate their work or criticize it..
Simple as that..lets leave art and religion separate.
Frankly, I didn’t like this web log. What’s the point of talking about religion here? Terrible title and the terrible bold headings. I think, if the movie is made nicely, our people watch it irrespective of the religion. There are many successful movies in and out of bollywood with different cultural environments. We enjoyed and appreciate them keeping the religion aside. I feel, for audience and the actors, religion should not matter in anyway. Just appreciate the art.
My personal feeling is that it really doesn’t make too big a difference. Back in time popular films like Amar Akbar Anthony, Pakeezah, Nikaah, Coolie, Mehboob Ki Mehndi, Ek Nazar, and, um, Khuda Gawah all featured Muslim characters in prominent roles.
Everyone from Amitabh Bachchan to Vinod Khanna to Rishi Kapoor have played Muslim characters. I can’t recollect the film now, but didn’t Jeetendra play a Muslim protagonist in a love story?
And, to the best of my knowledge, they were well received.
In more recent examples, Uday Chopra has played Muslim characters in both Dhoom and Charas (ok fine, the latter may go against the premise of this write up as him being a Muslim became an issue central to the plot).
Didn’t Sanjay Dutt played a prominent (non-gangster) Muslim character in Virrudh?
However to get back to the central theme of this post, I think the fact that most hindi films feature protagonists with very generic hindu names (Raj, Vijay, Ravi, Rahul, Prem, Ajay, etc) because these names have a wide-appeal, they travel across many Indian sub-cultures, thus a larger chunk of the general Indian audience can identify with the central character. If a character was named, lets say “Narottam” or “Taraksh” or “Praladh”, then they wouldn’t nearly appeal be as relatable.
As for heroines, could it be a cultural thing that there just aren’t as many Muslim girls who are willing to, you know, “do what it takes” to become successful top stars. I mean, Katrina Kaif’s and Soha Ali Khans’ connections are within the industry are well established. How are the other aspiring Muslim actresses going to rise to the top?
I agree with what Prashant and others have already stated, “i seriously dont think any1 cares abt the religion as long as its not the focal point of the movie…”
Just pure BULLSHIT
If a Muslim actor makes his debut with a Hindu charcter,because theidea behind it is he can be reached to a large audience in India,that doesn’t mean that Hindus hate Muslims.
Apart from the lead heroes,bollywood has given Muslims a chance in every filed like lyricists Javed Akthar,Gulzar etc.. and many directors too.
It’s wrong to say that ‘The audience is not ready for Hindu-Muslim lou’ .. make a good film with Muslims the audience will definetly like it (Aamir)
Amitabh played a muslim in number of movie…he was Sikandar(MKS), Iqbal(Coolie) Ja Nisar Akhtar(Andha kanoon), Ahmed( I am not sure abt the name, Imaan Dharam),Badshah Khan(Khuda Gawah)and all these movies were Super Hit.
He also played a muslim in Boom(Bade Mia), Hindusthan Ki Kasam(Kabeera),Ajooba(Ali, Saat Hindustani(Anwar Ali)though the movies bombed at the BO.
Rishi Kapoor(AAA), Salman Khan(Sanam bewafa), Jitendra(Deedar-e-Yaar), Pankaj Kapoor(Maqbool)…I give up there are many movies with Muslim characters.
@krishna
Thanx for being the voice of sanity amidst the conspiracy theorists……there is absolutely no reason to believe that Hindu characters are somehow preferred in Bollywood.
@Dabba
If you are talking about YRF films and some of the other big studio Bollywood over the years, then it is worth noting that most of them hail from the Punjab-Delhi belt and have incorporated their culture in Bollywood fabric…
But JBJ, Salaam-E-Ishq etc. had Muslim characters and nowhere was their being Muslim a plot device…….
Satya, thanks for reminding me… Deedar-E-Yaar was the film I was referring to…
As for YRF… um… Veer Zaara? That was an out and out Hindi/Muslim love story, where BOTH female leads play Muslim characters.
While on the topic, who could forget Henna, which featured Pakistani actress Zeba Bakhtiar as the heroine (and titular character). By the way, some other little tidbits about Henna I found to be pretty cool. Some of the prominent Pakistani characters where played by Muslim actors (Saeed Jaffrey, Farida Jalal, Raza Murad). The film was co-written by a Muslim/Hindu (Khwaja Ahmad Abbas & Jainendra Jain) and was directed by a Punjabi (Randhir Kapoor).
It’s all about prejudice ,to classify and brand is essentially human nature and bollywood accentuates it giving it’s stamp of approval to the same which is why every drunkard tapori is a christian ,(remember albert ,joseph and countless other roles played by keshto mukherjee) ,bar dancers are also either christian or muslim ,(helen’s roles) or either have fancy exotic names which are difficult to classify ,bengalis are supposed to speak with a pan in their mouth and have their hair styled like someone from the 19th century ,all south indians are madrasis and have impossibly long names.
the household helper is always a ramu kaka ,the rich industrialist is always invariably either a khanna or a kapoor or an oberoi.
And I believe the same applies to muslims in bollywood as well ,most of the gangsters and gundas are portrayed as muslims.
The list is exhaustive ,only now with increased urbanisation we are seeing some movies which defy the genre ,remember the scene from Chak De ,where the girls from North-East and a girl from Andhra retaliate.
dabba,
you lost your point.bloggers are not getting it.they are discussing it in a different perspective.you raised a valid point.LAKEER PR LATHI CHALANE KA RIWAJ HAI,SAANP TO NIKAL GAYA.
a few general points before i address specifics. Thanks for keeping it civil, and hope we can continue the debate. I have great faith in PFC bloggers, that’s why i brought it up here and I would dare not do such a thing at rediff.
I have written posts merely for the sake of provocation before, but this is not one of them. I see an anomaly, and I’m calling it. I want to understand the source or find a possible explanation, whatever that may be. I have come in with a POV after dismissing certain possiblities and i am entirely willing to change the way i see things based on ur arguments and reasoning.
@Dabba - Hindi movies generally try and make their leads as generic as possible - something about making them as relatable to a large audience.
It’s not something I agree with - most of us watch regional, Hollywood and world cinema without having any relatability issues.
And I think Ajay is right, the comments have lost the thread…
Oh and where are the Sikhs?
@ nina -
correct me if i’m interpreting ur words poorly cos your double negative confused me. u think that the khans are being threatened not to act in hindu directors films? nothing could be farther from the truth.
@ prashant -
fear of trying something new is entirely valid. In which case all it should take is one or two.
@ sanjeev, udayan -
it is interesting to note that the top box office draws in the 50s,60s,and 70s saw a good chunk of muslim women. meena kumari, nutan, madhubala, zeenat, parveen, mumtaz etc. I try to approach a situation of discomfort/conflict giving the other party the benefit of doubt. So, leveling charges of hypocrisy, even if true defeats the purpose, and generates unwarranted hostility.
Let’s look at some of the specifics. From what i know about madhubala and meena kumaris lives, they came from very poor families, mostly conservative, and worked to support the entire family etc. Also, back then films were considered closer to prostiution for women than they are now, so they probably faced strict opposition, or came into it out of necessity. I believe madhubala started as a child actress.
Is it possible that there is a paucity of culturally muslim actresses today? I’m going to look at the Jews again. There are a lot of jewish male stars, but very few female stars that are jewish. natalie portman is the only one that comes to mind. what are the reasons for this? I am not ruling out hypocrisy in either case. It parallels the Telugu film industry from my undestanding of it in the early 90s…the men that ran industry were from one caste, but there were very few women from the same caste.
More specific to my blog though, i was concerned merely with characters and not the actors themselves, but they are related.
@ amir,
i hope my post was clear that my boldened titles were possible scenarios that i debunked save for the last one. I will exclude Aamir, and Khuda because they have muslim protagonists, and the film deals with Islam, or some interpretation of it.
i will agree though that a lot of the films seem to be packaged than created.
@ faraaz and rk,
such discussions make well-intentioned people such as urselves uncomfortable, and they dismiss it with bromides such as “When it comes to art..all we should be concerned about is the work of the artist,” and “We enjoyed and appreciate them keeping the religion aside. I feel, for audience and the actors, religion should not matter in anyway. Just appreciate the art.”
I made it fairly clear at the outset that I don’t care about the actual religious beliefs of any of the actors, it is the characters that they essay that i’m talking about.
The punjabification of Bollywood is not by accident. From early on, a lot of the actors, producers, directors were punjabi, but it was not until the YRF factory that they realized they could sell it.
It is unnatural for any group, especially one that wields power, and has atleast a nominal identity, yet not have that identity manifest itself.
If abhishek or vivek oberoi played only muslim characters in every film (i don’t know what their religious beliefs are, but i’m going to call them culturally hindu because of their names), yet had the power and industry presence to do as they please, that would be strange right?
@ tony, navdeep -
interesting point about generic names for maximum relatability. i had not thought of that.
@ krishna -
every assertion in bold is actually what i have heard, and i tried to find ones that were valid. Most of them as u point out are bullshit and not valid, and i mentioned the same in my post.
@ satya and tony -
thanks for reminding me of that period in the 80s when there were several such characters. By the mid 90s, they pretty much disappeared. what else has changed in the world between the 80s and 90s?
@ aditya -
i did not know abt JBJ or SalaameI, but it raises another point. Is there a metric to disprove my hypothesis? How many movies with muslim protags in non-conventionally muslim roles will it take for me to concede that i got my knickers in a twist for no reason?
would it be something at par with the general population representation? which means that for about 200 (just pulled this number out based on 4 new theatrical releases every friday) Bolly films a year, we need to have about 20 muslim protags overall. ofcourse one has to factor out terrorism, and hindu-muslim lou films.
that sounds like a really high number to hit every year. I will take half of that, which is being generous when u factor in how muslims constitue nearly 40% of bollywood.
@ vineet, navdeep -
bollywood has a long list of insensitivity crimes towards different ethnic groups. I find the case of muslims an anomaly becasue they are so visible, and have power.
@dabba - regarding the invisibility of Muslim actresses in Bollywood today vis-a-vis some decades ago, I think you’re onto something.
My own hypothesis is that actors (male and female) are drawn from a much smaller pool than they were in the past. Today they tend to be from more upper middle class backgrounds.
In the past producers/directors took the effort to groom and cultivate talent (sure that included some degree of the casting couch) Regardless, there was a wider variety of talent available. Historically, a lot of the Muslim female actors were from economically disadvantaged backgrounds hence…
Any mass offering has to pander to the largest group, thus the manufacturer designs it to pander to the lowest common denominator. That’s a basic selling theory.
In a ————- majority region, the largest chunk will come from ————— representation. Now fill both the blanks with the same word. Choose Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Punjabi, Bengali, Jain, Maharashtrian, Tamil, Kannada, Assamese, Oriya, Rajasthani, Marwari, whatever. As simple as that. Now in a Hindu majority country, the correct word - POST you have taken the business call of designing a product that is MASS and not niche - is Hindu. It’s not as if you can’t have dominant muslim representation, but then you are taking a conscious call to limit the scope and thus the monies.
Films work by igniting some degree of identification with the viewer. And the largest number of identification points will always come from the majority elements. That’s precisely why there are no heroes with names like U M R Rao, Abhiram Panigrahi, Freddy Benedict, Brijendra Bhayana et al. Or a huge mainsream thriller set entirely and entirely in the world of corpoarate law.
It’s just a question of how much money how want back, nothing else.
haven’t gone through all the remarks just yet - but it seems that you’ve missed the most important issue in the article: the way muslim characters have been depicted in hindi cinema over the years … it’s not very appealing is it?
think of green walls, burqas, the elderly beardly head of the house, the mazars, the sajdas in the mazars … think of Om Puri and family in Rang De Basanti (or Manisha’s family in Bombay). Even Zaara’s family was depicted as one with all sorts of restrictions and ramifications. That’s how I, and I am sure most of the cinegoers, associate muslim’s depiction in hindi cinema. It’s the culture that hindi cinema has depicted for ages … the culture has been portrayed as restricting - which in effect means that the protagonist has very little flamboyance or character to play with. Hence the issue. It seems nobody can come up with a “anupam kher in DDLJ” kind of father for a muslim protagonist.
Aamir - was refreshingly different, yet didn’t quite caught up with general audience. SRK in CDI was good as well - but again his roots were in the same 2-bed conservative house with a very medieval mum. What is needed is a full-blooded SRK/AK “masala” film with all the extravagence and flamboyance of a “Rahul” … and you might have opened up a whole new horizon for the cinema to move towards.
@Dabba
the case of Muslims is only slightly different in the sense that there is the communal angle thrown in ,christians too belong to a separate religion but they are not part of India’s bloody communal history.
I will use two sources now to support what I am going to say….
first is the Sachar committee report which has found that with changing times Muslims have remained economically and socially stagnant which means that they are not getting the share of post 1990 economic boom that middle class India is experiencing hence their purchasing power has gone down and has now shifted to the upper middle and middle middle class, which is to a large extent Hindu ,so the abundance of well to do hindu hero/protagonists in Bollywood .
Second is from the book “The Argumentative Indian” by Amartya sen where he mentions that India is a fusion of cultures wherein our music traditions/culture are drawn from the Islamic Sufi tradition .
Which explains the abundance of muslim songwriters and singers and the abundance of singing gharanas , Ustad Alauddin Khan ,undoubtedly the greatest music artist India has seen in a long long time also happens to be a Muslim.
This I believe is the reason you see so many muslim actors and singers in Bollywood ,and since everything in India tends to be dynastic hence you see this generation after generation.
Maybe “The Professor” can do a Macro Economic analysis of this…
Some more examples of Muslim characters where their relgion is not central to the plot: Salman’s one role out of 2 in TUMKO NA BHOOL PAYENGE, Sonal Chauhan in JANNAT, Aamir-Kajol in FANAA, Emraan Hashmi in KALYUG, Sunny Deol’s brother-in-law in JO BOLE SO NIHAL, Preity and Lara in JHOOM BARABAR JHOOM, Shriya Saran in AWARAPAN, Aamir Khan in 1947 (The film tried to show that religion was actually irrelevant), Upen Patel in NAMASTE LONDON…Anyone with more names?
@ Dabba (comment 27),
BTW Nutan was Hindu, not Muslim. She was the daughter of actress Shobhna Samarth.
@ dabba: I am sorry to see the crux of your point(s) being lost out in the discussion here.
A few axioms in no particular order:
1. Commercial filmmakers look for the max acceptance of their story, characters
2. Indian society hasn’t (yet) accepted inter-religious relationships in a big way
3. The moment you make your protagonist a Muslim (or of any other religious denomination which is a minority) then you are forced to make other relations of the same denominations. So the love interest, the chacha-chachi, mama-mami, the language, celebrations all will have to conform to the above. In short, you will end up with a Muslim film which will go against the Axiom #1 for Producer
4. Filmmakers still want to show Muslim characters since they want to satisfy Axiom 1 to some extent. So they hit upon this innovation of a ‘no strings attached’ supporting character who is a Muslim. So, it shouldn’t surprise you that a lot of support characters that you see (Jimmy Shergill in Munnabhai, Sanjay Dutt in Virudh, Mazhar Khan in Shaan and many others) are shown without any ‘visible’ family. The moment you bring them you will end up with Axiom 3.
5. All this doesn’t preclude an occasional filmmaker to try out a film complete with Muslim protagonists. Today, these are experimental films like Aamir, Anwar et al. In the past there was the Muslim Social (a term I have found quite interesting) where you could weave a story with great music which could keep the audience interested. Except Jeen Sirf Tere Liye, the muslim socials have vanished in the last decade. These are more the exceptions than the rule
6. There’s the last formula of showing love-against-all-odds kind of films which pair a Hindu and a Muslim together. But here I have found it quite interesting that in most portrayals, the boy tends to be Hindu while the girl is shown Muslim (Bombay, Veer Zaara) while there’s statistics on inter-religious marriages in India to show that the higher proportion tends to be the other way round. So why do filmmakers do it? The answer again lies in Axiom 1.
@Dabba Ji,
Sorry in advance as you may take it on personal basis but intention is to make points on the points raised by you or on your POV or your way of thinking in a set pattern.
I had written a long long comment but when I clicked submit comment button, site asked me to login again, I was in while started to write the comment. so that long comment is lost.
(1) First Yash Chopra-
Brand “Yash Raj Films2 is relatively a new phenomenon. Earlier “Yash Chopra Film” was more popular.
as a director Yash Chopra started with directing Dhool ka Phool and Dharam Putra and both the films had muslim characters as main characters in the plot and plots handled hindu muslim angle.
Yash Chopra made Ittefaq way back in 1969 and it was a song less film. so to say YASH Chopra will be finished if songs and dances are removed from the films is over simplification. Why YC, anyone who knows how to make films, can survive with or without songs and dances.
As a producer he made two beautiful films Noorie and Nakhuda and both again had muslim characters as main characters and story and screen plays were focussed on them.
(2) Muslims are minority. 10-15% you say, They fall between 180-200 Million people which is more than the twice of the population of an entire nation like Germany. Since begining Muslims have been quite active in filmmaking and have bene holding power in every area of filmmaking.
There was a post by Ajay and I hade made a comment there and it will be repetition if I make few points again.
(3) Every country has different kind of method to handle some problem. You or anyone can not understand the Hindi cinema by comparing it with Hollywood and to understand Hindi cinema you will have to study it differently and you have to study ” HOW IT HAS BEEN FUNCTIONING” and not ” HOW IT SHOULD HAVE FUNCTIONED”.
I am not sure if USA will be having so many Blacks at so big positions in CIA, FBI kind of agencies as they show in every second Hollywood film. First time a cross and not entirely Black person is going to be American President and its already a big debate there. India has been having Muslims on almost higher posts right after 1947.
It seems Hollywood tries to include characters just to pacify the citizens living there.
I dont know and you can help me by quoting how many big white hollywood stars have been marrying black people since 1947.
We can recall the scene from Oscar Winning Crash, where a black man gets cal from his mother and he says,” Call me later Mom, I am having sex with a White Woman”.
One scene is heavier than many films trying to create illusionary impression.
On the other hand as you have mentioned Hindi cine stars have been marrying different religion people.
and this has been happening since so many years.
NARGIS was daughter of Jaddan Bai and Mohan Kumar, Meena Kumari though a muslim belonged to Tagore’s family. Sanjay Dutt is son of Nargis and Sunil Dutt. and this trend is continued. Subhash Ghai married a muslim woman, Aditya Pancholi married Zareena Waheb. Manoj Bajpai married a muslim Neha. Nirmal Pande did it. Nobody is going to ask rich, famous and powerful people what they do as far as marriage is concerned.
and Middle class by nature follows many self imposed restrictions.
MA Jinnah was the one who created Pakistan but major portion of Muslim population stayed back in India at that time also in 1947. Hindi cinema has been catering to all kind of audience.
Responsible and wise were the filmmakers of 50s who did not want to increase the problems of the nation and made films for all.
Jinnah’s daughter’s son Nusli Wadia had no problem in exapnding the business empire of Bombay Dying in India. Nusli’s son Nes Wadia may marry hindi cine star Preity Zinta and there will not be any kind of objection from any sector of society.
Jinnah and Ratti’s marriage makes an interesting subject to make a love story in the background of India’s freedom struggle but It will be Pakistan which will raise objection if Hindi cinema makes an attempt.
(4) Just after the partition in 1947 films have been made in Hindi cinema, which have been based on muslim characters. and love stories are there. Its not necessary that stories should always focus on lovers belonging to different cast, religion etc. How many love stories we have in Hollywood, depicting a struggle between Catholic and Protestents, though in real life they may have conflict?
After some films audience will be bored with such films. Border was a hit while people hated LOC Kargil. its about a time also.
(5)Ashok Kumar, Pradeep Kumar, Raaj Kumar, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar, Jeetendra, Amitabh Bachchan, Rishi Kapoor etc have played muslim leading man in many films and they are Hindus in real life.
Its up to Muslim super stars like SRK, Salman Khan, Aamir Khan, Saif Ali Khan if they wish to play muslim characters or not. I dont see any problem if story demands then why they will not play but forcefully they will not play a muslim character in every fourth film. Idea is not good.
Even stars search plots where they can be liked by many people and religion of the character should never be a problem if its not an objectionable character.
Anything which look genuine may work.
Perhaps time is not suitable for making Hindu Muslim love stories. As some Muslim Outfits have been interfering in the films. MF Hussain’s Meenakshi was taken down from the theatres. Films are not doing revolutions.
Surely films can do a great thing if characters surnames are removed. People did not know who belonged to BC or OBC before Mandal Commission’s controversial era. Mandal changed this ignorance and divided the people in to many politically motivated groups and results are seen in the political unstability in the centre.
If such films are helping something then filmmakers may think otherwise why just to set the record, they should make films on Hindi muslim love stories? Major films are for masses and they will always focus on plots which may appeal to a large number of people.
First Literature has to cater to this field. Films come later.
(6) When you say that because many members of unit who made JTYJN are muslims and some characters should be muslims then its like saying that a lame director should make a film having lame character/s in his film/s. He can make one film but everything depends on the plot.
JTYJN was a launching film of a newcomer. It was the first film of a director. Its quite possible that what is occuring to your mind never came in to the minds of Abbas Tyrewalla, Manssor Khan and Aamir Khan because they were interested in making a film which may help in establishing the new actor.
When crors are on stake and few careers are also on stake then people take average route. Some people think that controversial plot will bring them additional attention but some may think that a proven path may help them more.
When you make your first film on the basis of your screen play then perhaps you will get this feeling.
(7) Yusuf Khans and Begham Jahan’s had to change their names. Thats a bogus idea and not based on facts.
As mentioned in the comment on Ajay’s post, Yusuf Khan had option to select name between Jahangir and Dilip Kumar and he and his well wishers selected Dilip Kumar because it matched with ashok Kumar, who was the most successful super star of that era.
If This was the case as you mention then how come, Nargis did not change her name? Why Naushad, Mohd Rafi, Talat Mehmood etc did not change their names? Why people go to watch Aan, Mother India, Mughal-iAzam while it was mentioned on the posters on bigger words that they are made by Mehboob and K Asif? How come few years later Firoz Khan entered as Firoz Khan? People had become less communal by then?
Who has stopped Zeenat Aman, SRK, Salman Khan, Saif Ali Khan, Aamir Khan from making a successful career in the films?
This is over simplification when you make such statements that Yusuf Khan needed to change his name because of religious matters. People knew right from the begining that its his filmi name and he is a muslim. His being muslim has not stopped people to respect him as the biggest actor of India.
(8) you will be in better position if you see some important films of Hindi cinema. You really need to see more hindi films before you start making hypothesis. Because its very much clear that you have seen very few films. Its not necessary that one may watch all but some significant films before one start making theses on a particular face of world cinema.
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Comment (16) is not by me but by some namesake.
@ Dabba: also, all those who are reeling out Muslim characters in the comments, pls ask them to apply point # 4 on it. They will find most of them where the identity wasn’t that relevant (so pls don’t bring AK in Fanaa or 1947, SRK in CDI) like Emran Hashmi (Kalyug), Shriya Saran et al to be characters with no filial attachements. Keeping it that way ensures no further complication and you still manage the max acceptability issue
@Dabba,
Sorry for joining back late but good to see that the ball is rolling. About the surnames, one e.g: In JP Dutta’s debut Ghulami there was an undercurrent between Ranjit Singh (played by Dharmendra) and the Thakurs and their son-in-law (Om Shivpuri, Bharat Kapoor and Naseeruddin Shah) which assumed a casteist tone — Ranjit snapped at one of his rivals: Ranjit Singh nahi, Ranjit Sinhg Chowdhury kaho. It brought out the tussle between the ‘upper’ and ‘lower’ castes quite subtley. Interestingly, if I remember correctly, the film also had a Muslim character — Jabhar (played by Mithun) — whose religion didn’t matter in the plot. I may be wrong on this.
On the whole, the film went against the popular grain. No doubt people remember it much less than they do, say Border (also by the same director).
Btw, Nina is right. After the bomb blasts, a warning was issued to Muslim actors.
Thanx for initiating an interesting topic.
Rk @ 43: lots of interesting content and thanks for reminding us of Yash Chopra’s oeuvre esp his initial movies. But I feel what you were rebutting weren’t dabba’s points at all.
@Rk: you wrote this
“When crors are on stake and few careers are also on stake then people take average route. Some people think that controversial plot will bring them additional attention but some may think that a proven path may help them more.
When you make your first film on the basis of your screen play then perhaps you will get this feeling.”
I think the point Dabba is raising is in your words “proven path may help them more”. The question he is asking is why is that the “proven path”? Not why didn’t they make a movie which had Muslim characters. He was just using it to liiustrate this point. Would be happy to hear your views on why that is the “proven” or “less controversial” path?
@Subrat(47),
Love Story (Kumar Guarav), Betab (Sunny Deol), QSQT(Aamir Khan), MPK (Salman Khan) etc are proven path for the generation who have spent a well fed childhood and and have not passed through the struggles through which their fathers had passed in their struggling days.
These days these newcomers come after taking proper training in everything but still emotions can not be given in training and what they best can express lies in the plots of love stories. and their first attempt should be seen as their graduate thesis where they dont have to do an independent research.
Once they taste the real scene in first film later they can go on any kind of plot because first film will bring them exposure to the actual working and emotions also.
Patterns of newcomers try to take this average path which has seen the success in the past.
Romantic comedy where these star kids can be accomodated.
This is like a necessary evil but as I said first chance should not be judged very harshly.
While making a hypothesis if some points are used to emphasise something and I find them having no true basis, Then I can respond to that.e.g Yusuf Khan- Dilip Kumar theory. I need to get examples in case of other actors who started at same time.
Rest all will be sheding something on the topic. I can not respond personally to anyone. I can respond only when I can go in to a larger picture. One to one response is an argument and I am not interested in that.
I did not need to quote names of actors starting from Ashok Kumar to Rishi Kapoor, had Dabba ji mentioned in his post that earlier hindi cinema used to make filsm on muslim characters but now such films are not made.
You are very well aware of those films.
We have examples of past opposing every possible reason he has counted why such films are not made.
a transition phase can not be counted as a permanent phase.
and at same time we can not over look the past while trying to make a hypothesis.
More points were in the lost comment and I dont have wish to type them again. I simply contribued to the topic.
(8) in 43 is a sinecre advise based on several comments made by Dabba ji in recent past here and there. This will help him.
@Navdeep Singh (25): “Oh and where are the Sikhs?”
Well, they are there, except portrayed in a very stereotypical manner…usually truck drivers, really loud and comical. Although there are a few films like Gaddar, JWM, Sarhad Paar and now Singh Is Kinng which do feature Sikhs. But overall, the portrayal is clichéd…actually to think about it more, there are very few films which feature Sikhs with their turbans and long beards in main/lead roles or in significant supporting roles…for example, films like Dabba mentioned–Dil Chahata Hai and JTYJN could have had a Sikh as one of the friends…
@Subrat,
(1)To be more specific, what kind of projects newcomers are given in every other area? [and we are not talking about exceptions who have created masterpieces in their first ever attempt in whatever field they worked]. We are talking about average people.
and lets go little broader.
(2) Urdu has been a language (and sometimes more than Hindi)
used in creating dialogues and lyrics of the songs in the hindi films. Do we ask, why it has been given preference? Do we see any problem in using this language? Do we associate it with a religion when use in films? No we dont we use it because it has been a set pattern to use it. It comes automatically and people have been doing it, audiences have been accepting it.
Same way many things are established in last many decades and majority of filmmakers even may not think about alternative scenarios.
(3) This idea does not work that majority of Hindu audience dont like to see muslim protagonist. Who has made films successful.
(4) Moreover this question has to be directed speciafically towards Muslim Directors why they dont make anymore films having muslim characters. Efforts should come from their side. But as you quoted that films like Bombay and Veer zara are made in last 10-12 years in the mainstream hindi cinema so we can not ignore these examples while creating any hypothesis. Pinjar was also there. Gadar Ek Prem Katha was there. and all these films have got above average success while Gadar was a super hit. 1947-Earth was there.Ek Chadar Maili si. We can not say that love stories and other films having hindu muslim are not made at all in recent past. They are made though number has been less. Hypothesis should have mention of the films.
(5) Everything depends on social freedom of a religion. One can start asking where are sikhs, Jains, Budhists etc from the films? Majority of the films can not be sect based. They have to follow a path which represents an average outlook. and one wants to make specifically on muslim lower class, go and adapt Abdullah Bismillah’s s Jhenee Beenee Chadariya.
@49,
Please watch Govind Nihalani’s Vijeta, produced by Shashi Kapoor.
Dharmendra’s has played a sikh for half of the film in Jeevan Mritu. Amitabh is a sikh army officer in Ab Tumhare hawale watan saathiyo.
and Panjabi films are made since many years. It can not happen that every hindi films have an Asamese or a person from Nagaland.
There are regional film industries taking care of films belonging to that state.
If a south Indian police officer fits in a plot then he comes in as was the case in Company.
@RK: Thanks for pointing out some additional films! I just meant that overall, such films are few. Personally, as long as a film is a good film it doesn’t matter much to me what religion the characters in the film are portrayed as belonging to. Yet, at the same time, it is interesting to note how various religious and ethnic groups are portrayed in a particular manner in most (not all) Hindi films. Stereotypes are definitely present in films. For sure.
@Amanda,
stereotypes are present in films all over the world whereever film industry are making few hundred films a year.
Stereotype has to do with the plot also. Experiemnets with the characters can be done when whole film is made on that sect.
If a film is made and all the characters are sikhs and muslims and Christian then people of that sect dont mind seeing few bad people in that plot. But if a single person belonging to that sect is shown as bad person in a film which is not made specifically on that sect then many people are offended.
You can not take liberty where objections come on the titles like Singh is King and Jo Bole so Nihal.
Or a qawali in Meenakshi.
a majority of the producers directors have to be extra cautious in the matters related to sensitive sects. His motive is not to live life in controversy but to make films and release them.
A film can either (for the purpose of this discussion)choose to reflect the society , its sterotypes and make caricatures out of them or it can open the eyes of its audience…show them something that is hidden in their plain sight. The latter is very challenging, especially if you have to worry about appealing to a large audience base as India’s.
Changes in audience (demographic, religious, cultural etc.etc.)however is bound to happen and films will in a majority reflect these changes. The question really is …are we (the audience) growing more communally apart (ther-by rejecting minorty heroes) or are we growing more secular?
Ever wondered why the names of the secretaries and vamps always used to Rita, Mona, Rosy and never lakshmi, durga or saraswati
I don’t think that muslim characters are avoided as a rule; it’s got more to do with the comfort levels that audience has with certain names and the comfort level that some actors have with certain names (SRK-Rahul, AB-Vijay, Hrithik-Rohit, Salman - Prem.) Again the comfort level they have just a perception that audience likes it. No one actually knows.
Incidentally, there’s a movie called God Tussi Great Ho releasing which is produced by Shabbo Arts; written and directed by Rumi Jaffery and starring Salman and Sohail Khan. Guess what’s the lead character’s name in the movie? It’s Arun Prajapati.
Wasn’t there a common trope in which big stars’ characters carried similar names over from movie to movie so that the audience would know they would be getting more of the same things they liked in previous movies? So, like, there was this intra-movie context for the characters that was understood by audiences with a great economy of clues?
Did this ever happen for the Kabir-Khan types or only the Raj/Rahul/Prems?
Dabba, you should check out this film called Mahek (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1210520/). It’s a children’s film but the protagonist is from a Muslim family. But they are very normal, like any other middle-class Indian family. If we didn’t know the names of these characters, you wouldn’t be able to guess their religion.
I think your main argument was misunderstood by many responders. Like you clarified later, you were referring to the characterization, rather than the actor or the religion itself. What I find perplexing is if religion really doesn’t matter, then why aren’t producers/financers not willing to back stories which revolve around Muslim families? Why is it that when it comes to revenue or business sense of such movies, a Muslim family needs to make way for a Hindu one in the story?? Religious background doesn’t matter, correct? So why does it make a difference? And I just feel that it tells a little something about the image of the Indian Muslim. Most Indians are still not willing to connect with them. In fact, portraying more middle-class ‘normal’ Muslims might even help their cause. Maybe we’ll begin seeing them in a different, more normal, perspective, judge each of them on HIS/HER merit rather than his/her RELIGION.
I guess the average bollywood masala is just committed to one thing which is to strike the BO pot of gold….and in this pursuit ‘mere details’ such as the scriptual accuracy and its representation of reality are always overlooked, jus like vijay, prem, khanna, kumar and malhotra would be amongst the most repeated names of characters for the simple reason that they are easy for the audience to identify with…the idea is to make the movie as common as possible to the lowest common denominator as possible …..
PS- The janitor in munnabhai MBBS was a masood :-), was mogambo a muslim ?
Man! wil u guys ever get sorted, i just read a post by a muslim woman who was angry over drinking and sex by muslims in the movie Fannaa…and now you are arguing why dey dont have muslim protagonists in bollywood movies (they essentially have to do most of the stuff)!
decide guys!