Why a Karan Johar should be banned from PFC
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dazedandconfused (Hyderabad, India)
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If you are reading this looking forward to a Karan Johar bashing, let me say immediately that that is not going to happen.
I frankly admire the guy- not his cinema though- for what he has achieved- which is success. And nothing works like success. Paisa bolta hai and all that. The guy did try to stretch himself cinematically in KANK (which I didn’t watch, I just heard him in an interview) but he failed there as he himself admitted because he didn’t have the guts to give it the treatment that the subject demanded.
My question is more existential.
Recently I have seen many comments and of course a notable article by Suparn where they happen to criticize PFC and what they think PFC stands for. Immediately Oz and other very fine people do take a lot of pain to stress that PFC doesn’t by itself have any point of view. It’s just a collection of views expressed by individuals over whom they have no control over. I remember Anurag saying in one of his articles that he sometimes needed to explain to people that what was said in PFC was not necessarily his view,which is all correct, of course. In fact, pretty obvious. Now we at PFC can either ignore those criticisms as misguided or do a little introspection ourselves and think awhile on where all that is coming from.
And my take is guys, whether you like it or not, PFC has an identity. You might want to believe that this site could represent divergent sets of views since really, there’s no stopping anyone from posting comments or writing articles. But really, I don’t think I would be too far off the mark to say that a Karan Johar fan is in a vocal minority here; which is not the case in the big bad world outside this website. The polls are one barometer. I know around 60% said that they will catch either ‘Saawariya’ or the other SRK movie but the 40% who said that they didn’t care for either is still a big bloody number. And it’s that 40% who are writing the most comments, the most articles who are defining the identity of this website whether you like it or not.
There may be a lot of people out here who dig mainstream cinema but they aren’t vocal enough (for whatever reason) to shape the identity of PFC. And whether you like it or not, this identity will grow and become stronger and stronger as more and more like minded people keep visiting this site more often and the silent minority will dwindle.
Unless of course, say somebody like Karan Johar, joins this website. Then we would be drowned by his fans. There will be a huge incentive for the silent minority then to be heard by their representative, who understands their love of cinema and agrees with their point of view of what cinema should actually be, which is why he should be banned. (All this is hypothetical, you understand that right? I know all this is not a likely scenario and all that, so please don’t call me a dumbass) I mean, would I visit a website where the articles discuss which one of the 31 stars in ‘that’ song in ‘that’ movie was the coolest and why? Where there are addendum questions on the last episode of ‘Koffee with Karan’? I would stop coming here, I would stop criticizing mainstream cinema because I would be drowned out and I would slowly become the new silent minority and my visits to PFC would dwindle. Which would be pretty sad, don’t you think?
The long winded point that I am trying to make is, guys, we already have an identity whether we like it or not so let’s stop running away from it. Let’s define it, and accept what we are, warts and failures and all. Now the important question is – what is our identity? What do we stand for? Every brand has an identity so why can’t PFC?
I’ll make a feeble attempt and allow the rest of you to try and come up with your own takes on this subject if you think I said anything of consequence. I think we at PFC stand for ‘Progressive’ cinema in Bollywood. We like stuff which is different. We like filmmakers who take risks. We love movies which explore uncharted territories. And when K Jo makes a ‘Progressive’ movie which we like, he is most welcome here.
Other options- I quite like an adjective which a reviewer used for ‘No Smoking’- ‘Demented’. Anybody else like that one?
Sorry- but you can’t have ‘Dazed and Confused’- that belongs to me.
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
Vocal or not, PFC is a collection of people who are passionate about cinema… all cinema. And all of them who comment or write and who fall in the 40% u mentioned, they offcourse will watch KJ movies or the type.
Cinema is cinema and we all watch it. No opinion is voiced on one particular kind of cinema but that doesn’t mean the main-stream cinema is not watched. It is, just that most who voice their opinion do so about movies which appeal to them. Sometimes it is better cinema, sometimes it is not.
Nice Article!
I agree that PFC has an identity and I liked it. The day it starts discussing as you said 31 stars in OSO, the purpose of my visit to PFC is gone. There are thousands of sites dedicated to OSO and Saanwariya, I dont go there because I’ll be bashed and banged from all sides there. This is the place, I feel home. All of us are like apne gali ka sher :D, but nothing wrong in that. I appreciate it when someone trashes KJ movie. By the way it also makes me biased (for example looking at NS discussion, I had already started liking it even before I watched it. :D Offcourse I liked it after watching it. Looking fwd to DVD release)
well i dont think PFC needs to make a identity nor do i think it is in search for one !!!
cause cramping itself within a particular identity will do no good to what its core name stands for “passion for cinema”.
I believe that we have just two kinda of cinemas … GOOD and BAD ones …
Why are few already framing Saawariya and OMO as some third class movie, as far as it is cinema, i will wait for its release to see its worth and not comment before. actually those movies are the ones that keep alive the spirit of INDIAN films and how unique our films are !!! ( my personal view)
so i believe PFC shud be bothered only abt cinema and not abt the genres !!!
NICE ARTICLE
@george
I dont think the writer is making any bones about good or bad cinema. he is talking about what PFCites usually christen as good or bad cinema. And there is certainly a trait, which according to the poster PFC is wary of admiting.
@ Omprakash
ya i understand that, but i was expressing my view that it shudnt get trapped into this “identity” thingy and there by lose its main core purpose.
so i wudnt actually ming Karan joinin PFC .. as far as we have the “good n bad ” cinema in mind!!!
cheers
D&C Garu, all of visit & comment on PFC because we have oneness of taste. It is not that PFC was created or even runs for KJ or YRF bashing. I’m sure we’ll be the first to applaud if KJ makes a film that suits (any one of us teeming 1000s, who hit this site on an hourly basis) our taste. And, I don’t the think the administrators of this site will refuse KJ an opportunity to counter the bashing he gets here if he wishes to do so. But they have better avenues to do that, like NDTV, CNN-IBN etc. So, SRK celebrates the cinema of 70s (of which he has no clue about) on CNN-IBN for 30 minutes to publicize his new film OSO.
Can you imagine a Manish Tiwary getting that kind of support from Main stream media? He opts for PFC instead & unabashedly credits his writer for the marvellous line ‘Safed Pani Ki Jeel’ in Dil Dosti etc.
We the PFCians, are just a democratic group sharing our thoughts & ideas about our passion i.e. cinema. So, why bother about an identity or branding? :d
rvaptor- Am not saying that mainstream stream cinema is not watched. There is nothing to prevent a mainstream cinema from being ‘progressive’ or well liked here. Chak De/Jab We Met are good examples. What I am asking is, by taking an identity for ourselves can PFC look to contribute something to move Bollywood cinema in a forward direction? Or are we happy to be a place where people just come and chat about movies?
Omprakash- Exactly! There is a reason why I visit PFC and not any other movie website. It’s because we have a group of like minded individuals here which we wouldn’t find in other places. All I am asking is for people here to see the same reality and nurture it.
Dude(dazedandconfused)…
You seem to be rather dazed and confused.
Before you abuse the word “existential” at least make an effort to understand what it means.
George- you are right. There are just two kinds of cinemas. Good and Bad. But how many of us can really tell the difference. I have been watching movies for 20 years and still learning. Haven’t you ever watched a movie again which you enjoyed earlier and felt- “How the hell did I like this shit?” or seen a movie which you passed over and felt “I can’t believe I didn’t watch this much earlier!”
As we learn more and more about cinema we refine our taste. In my opinion having an identity does not restrict us but will start us off on a journey, a good one at that, which will sustain even if Anurag and Co. ditch us tomorrow (which I hope doesn’t happen)
@dazed
Well it is too easy for us to say because our association with bollywood is only relegated to the product, which is movie. The day PFC takes an identity or stand, the exclusive posters (who is the main attraction) are also taking a stand and significantly increasing their unknown enemies and detractors (as you already mentioned that the non-PFC world is in actuality much stronger than PFC when it comes to success and money). Everyone is not Anurag, who will keep shooting his mouth and take a stand. However, we can be like israel. :D we do not need to shout from roof top about nuclear capability but it is already known where the allegiance of PFC lies. Look at Suparn Verma’s article, he has been snubbed all the way from both the parties(oz and other tactful ones via diplomacy citing examples of PFC being true to all kinds of cinema AND jingoists like us :D who resorted to verbal to slapstick treatment). :D
@chiron
And pray do tell me what is the exact meaning of existential before you abuse the poster ? It also means “empirical” or “based on experience” [refer to dictionary.com]
First of all we shud understand the diff between “cinema” and “filam”. For me this site is not “passion for filams” … and yes i feel home here when most of the talks are around cinemas … but now a day lots of “sendh-mari” is going around to put those “filams” in cinema category in the name of passion … i wonder someday we actually start discussing “beauty queen” or “jungle ki haseena” and the argument will go on like .. there is no shame in discussing passion … ne takers to start a new thread on “Asia Carrera” ?
Gattu- See my reply to George.
Om Prakash @11- Om, I am not asking people to take stands like Anurag does. What I am asking from PFC is an umbrella with a name.
An umbrella which has a space for articles like Suparn’s as well. I think his article was quite well-timed which is what triggered this thought process.
We already have that umbrella but many people think that we are under the big blue sky. That is the notion which I want to dispel. Sorry to speak in metaphors but it is the flavor of the season!
Amit P- Agree with you. Stretching the point, in the name of passion for cinema, when this site starts discussing beauty queens and ‘jungle ki haseena’, that’s when alarm bells will start ringing, for me atleast.
dazedandconfused you sound like you want to make PFC into a site that only likes the Art house movies. I agree with the posters that say there is either good or bad cinema. I like both commercial and art movies. I love No Smoking and I also love Karan Johar movies. Why can’t there be both? Everyone has their own opinion and it’s the right opinion for that person. You can’t force someone to like something that they don’t like. I used to think I had to convince everyone on here to like Karan’s movies, but I’ve gotten past that because my views are mine and I can’t make someone else like what I like. Let PFC be what it is which is a forum for all cinema…..it’s been 3 days and I still can’t stop thinking aboyt No Smoking! :o
I love demented:((
NoVaDJ- That’s not my intention at all. As I mentioned in one of my comments above, I loved Chak De as well. I was just wondering aloud whether PFC should think about what they think they want to stand for. And how long will they keep apologising for the ‘individual’ views of the various posters here…?
Cinema in its complete purity relates to a viewer only. Cinema is not for an “x” or a “y”. If Karan Johar manages to bring his kind of cinema to a particular group of people who like it for whatever it stands for, he is successful. We may not agree with it but we shall have to learn to be tolerant. Similarly, if Karan decides to blog on PFC, Oz &Co. shall have to be tolerant and allow him the space and place. Here, it could happen that he is inundated with silly questions like why did Rani wear pink skirt for a particular scene. We just have to take that in stride. Like that question Anurag was asked in Rediff Q n A..why should we see NS..and his measured reply was “Don’t”.
“Don’t” is what I shall say to negativity. Cinema in all forms helps the industry. Some get the commerce in and others help the mind.
PFC getting Karan means Oz can easily get in better advertising on these pages. That shall help in more eyeballs. That will help in a better site management for whatever PFC stands for. One day it may be possible for all of us to interact with “David Winterbottom” and talk about why did he use hand helds for moving around the table in “A mighty heart”!!!
Munis- you are right. If we are not careful, we at PFC are in danger of being labelled as anti-mainstream instead of pro-’something’. That is why I think there is a need to elucidate that. We can shout all we want about how we stand for ‘good’ cinema and all that but I don’t see that cutting much ice.
Indraneel- It’s not easy to be tolerant. If we are inundated with silly comments and reviews, people will just find another website.
You say that if Karan wants to blog on PFC, Oz and others will have to allow him. Ok, to just carry the point further to a ridiculous extreme since that’s the way we test principles, I have the following questions for you-
1. If Anurag says he will leave the site if Karan blogs here, will you let Karan stay and let Anurag go?
If yes then Q2,
2. If everybody else on the roster also follow Anurag, will you still let Karan stay?
If yes, then Q3,
3. If Karan blogs for a week and then says, “Sorry yaar, I am no longer interested”, will you regret your decision?
If no, then hats off to you, else please give my post another read.
Hi All,
it seems its a battle between YRF Cult and you bunch of “Krantikari” Guys. Ok, I am fine with it. Just trying to give you an Idea, why not turn this battle into a battle between Indian Political System and you bunch of Krantikari guys, we need more of that rather then bashing up Karan and Yashraj and khaled and so on.
Adi
Adi, Thanks for your comment.
That’s exactly what PFC does not want to stand for but if we are not careful that’s what people with a cursory glance and a limited attention span seem to get about PFC.
Hence my post.
When I first came to PFC I was really excited to find a place to talk about my love of Indian movies, but then I noticed all the commercial bashing and I would get really angry. What I didn’t realize until it was pointed out to me a few times was it wasn’t on the actual blogs but in the comment section. Then I had to re-think everything I was angry about.
I’m still new to these type of sites, so dazedandconfused when you just mentioned that whole scenario about Karan joining PFC and Anurag leaving ,can you just ban someone because you don’t like their type of cinema? I think it would be interesting for Karan to be on here and then see how he defends himself when he gets attacked, he might actually have something important to say.
Anurag actually has good reasons to be angry about certain things that have happened to him, but I doubt he would leave PFC and take everyone with him because someone who makes different movies than his joins this site.
NoVaDJ- you missed the point I was trying to make. It’s not about Karan or Anurag. In fact that should not be the case at all.
The headline is provocative and is supposed to make people think about how they want PFC to shape up and contribute to Bollywood in it’s own small way.
That’s all.
@Omprakash
Existentialism is Kirkegaard, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Sartre, Camus and not dictionary.com
Empiricism is David Hume my dear friend.
@chiron..
There is a difference my dear friend between “existential” (adjective) and “existentialism” (noun)… You are reading too much between the lines. Re read the passage where it is mentioned as an adjective. Sartre will turn on his grave if he sees this.
@dazedandconfused
I don’t understand where I missed the point. I was just going along with your scenario and asking if it was really even possible to happen and I was explaining how I finally understood PFC. I enjoyed your article I was just trying to figure out where you were going with it.
I see your point about PFC possibly turning into Rediff and that would be bad, but if I had never come here I wouldn’t have discovered Manichitrathazhu,Black Friday,No Smoking and a bio of NTR. I also read Rediff and the last few times I visited it I was so angry about peoples ignorance towards No Smoking that I defended it…..and my final question is will I ever get No Smoking off my mind!? It’s been 4 days already!
@Omprakash
What a startling revelation! Well, thank you very much. I feel like I am sitting right under Bodh Gaya with a halo around my head.
@chiron
You are most welcome. You came up with this after referring to sartre, etc :D. Enjoy your halo till it lasts.
@omprakash
Well. Sarcasm has to be subtle – Not exactly a case of hammer on a nutshell.
Let’s stop fighting. It’s pointless. Peace
@NoVaDJ- I meant that the scenario is not important and it is unlikely to happen. I mentioned that only because as a test of principle.
Today PFC is open to all. I am asking is it sustainable? And are we ready to live with it that way?
That’s all.
D&C
@ D n C
exactly boss, good and bad cinema is very subjective and and changes from one person to another …
and tats why we have PFC !!!
@ George- No, I diasagree. Good and bad cinema is not subjective, it’s our understanding and our preference for a certain kind of cinema which makes it so.
Subtle difference but important nevertheless.
I came across this website by chance and have since then been a regular reader. What i like about the site is that it is true to its name … people here are passionate about cinema. And by stating that karan johar and his fans are not welcome here because that would kill the identity of this site is against the spirit of the “identity” itself. i dont think the identity is about “progressive” cinema because “progressive” is a very very subjective word. The identity that i see as a layman is the “passion” and lets not be ostriches to deny the fact that karan johar is not passionate about cinema. he is as passionate as an anurag but believes in a different kind of cinema and i believe we need to tolerant of the same. I am passionate about cinema and i love quiet movies like samsara as well as watching reruns on tv of jodi no. 1. and to take that example a little further i love hemant kumar as well as kelly clarkson !!! and as the famous quote goes … ” i may not agree with what you say but i shall defend to death your right to say so !!!”
I agree with Prasoon. Though i am not a SRK fan, neither of his movies, but ya that man is as passionate as anybody else so he is welcome. Welcome Karan Johar and welcome SRK
@dazedandconfused,
I understood what you meant and I am one of those people that came over to this site from those other fan-type sites, but since PFC is still open to all, I explained to you in my #30 comment that I was open to other’s comments on here and discovered lots of cinema that I would have never known about. If it had been closed to me I would be Progressive-Cinema-Dumb…maybe I could start a new site called PCD…..
@Prasun Banerjee,
I really liked your comment…
Lets first define what K-Jo cinema stands for – then see if PFC is an antithesis of that.
PFC is IMO – “Non- exclusive” liking for cinema.
It doesn’t exclude regional cinema – otherwise i wouldn’t be here writing what i feel and know about Thamizh cinema. Offcourse a well known fact is that I would hardly get a space in mainstream websites where you have two bunch of people – Bollywood fanatics and regional cinema fanatics. So anything you write or express is viewed with coloured prisms and a war is always waiting to happen. Whereas here the biases are not there or have been kept aside for constructive dialogue on cinema. That is one reason why I have not joined in the KJo bashing or praising XYZ for it takes away objectivity. KJo and his popularity are no threat to PFC as they(hsi fans) would come in and get themselves exposed to the greater meaning and possibilities of the word Cinema. For all you know it might ignite some genuinely talented people whose exposure has been restricted only to KJo. So – if you feel PFC will be sidelined becuase of KJo and his fans then you are underestimating the majority in this website. we might be a few, but we can be quite vocal too. KJo will not offcourse write for PFC as it is not remunerative and there ends the matter.
Prasun,
As long as you think PFC should have a coherent identity we are on the same page.
But saying that we are passionate about cinema is like those ads which proclaim to have the cheapest airfare. Good for a webpage title but might not be enough for a brand identity.
Don’t care if you don’t like ‘progressive’. It was just an example to start a debate.
D&C
Jaiganesh,
You are happy with status quo and maybe after so much discussion, probably so am I. Let’s hope for the best for PFC’s future!
The progressives and noir artists of Bombay need Karan Johar badly because the niche appeal of an Anurag Kashyap or a Sanjay Khanduri lies in the mass appeal for KJ and the likes. Indian Progressive cinema is not world class by its own merit. Its only KJ that makes it seem so.
Vishak- Didn’t get you there…how does the niche appeal of a movie depend on the mass appeal of other movies?!:-?
Agree though that Indian Cinema is not world class, though we do produce an odd outstanding movie every now and then, just like those medals at the Olympics…:)
OH! all of you here give a thought abt what you say I guess all of you are here on this particular website for the love for cinema or for the war between the Genre. You will hear every film-maker saying we only know of two type films i.e. Good and Bad, The Art and commercial are media given terms. Then why this debate. Cinema is an expensive medium and One make films for the People not for there self viewing. So If people love them we should respect the opnion. We have audience for Films by Anurag ji and others also now may be they are less in comparison but that is not because of Karan or his films its coz of the other factors that these sections are not matured enough. So let anyone join and be a part of it we are not hear to see the fan following all what matters at the end of the day is Cinema.
I don’t think PFC needs an identity! PFC is a blog site and a medium of expression. We cannot slot all expressions into a category. I dont know why some people think PFC = Supporters of parallel cinema (if such a thing exists) or PFC = Anti-Mainstream cinema people.
We are all here for what the site says – Passion For Cinema. Cinema is the medium. We are all cinephiles and please, lets not try to confuse PFC with a brand. It is a platform, and a great one at that! I love Yash Chopra, Anurag Kashyap, Karan Johar, Sriram Raghavan, Rajat Kapoor, Rakeysh Omprakash Mehra, Sudhir Mishra and Vishal Bharadwaj equally and for completely different reasons.. I would hate to log on to PFC some day and hesitate to write words of praise for Karan Johar if I feel like someday, just because I feel PFC is a ‘brand’ that wont support my views.. I would want to write bindaas even then, even if I want to say Karan Johar rocked! Please don’t take that freedom away from us…
Dazed&Confused,
I am an avid reader of this blog though I seldom comment, but I will like to respond to your post. Its apt to call this blog ‘PassionforCinema’ as everyone will agree that each one of us who regularly post here or comment or read are passionate about cinema. Now are we trying to compare who is more passionate than the other ? For all I know, Karan Johar is definitely more passionate than a lot of us readers here cos at least he has made a contribution to the cinema – whether its upto your tastes or not is besides the point. When you talk about being ‘progressive’, why then take a ‘regressive’ step by narrowing the identity of this blog to a limited few ? Everyone who’s passionate abt cinema shd be welcome here to post their views; and just because we all like ‘different’ cinema doesn’t necessarily mean ‘different’ cinema is ‘progressive’. Let each of us have his/her own interpretation about cinema and let just ‘passion’ define our presence on this site.
Arati- Exactly! if PFC doesn’t take upon itself an identity, I fear it will acquire one on its own over which it will have no control. As you mentioned it could easily be ‘Supporters of parallel cinema’ or ‘Against Mainstream’ or anything else which we might not want for it now, would we?
And as I mentioned in the post, it’s great you love Karan Johar and say so but there don’t seem to be enough of them around here as you would expect on a normal film site, considering the general popularity of his films.
So it was my hypothesis based on the type of comments/posts I read here and the poll results that I saw that we have a certain kind of a niche audience. And generally niches need to be nurtured.
Hence my post.
V- I am not trying to compare who’s more passionate about cinema. Where did you get that from? I agree with you that KJo is probably more passionate about cinema than 99% of us milling around this site.
Don’t take my ‘progressive’ suggestion very seriously. I also mentioned ‘demented’ and ‘dazed and confused’, you know!
‘Passion’ is good enough for an identity if we are not seen as ‘passionately against Yashraj’ etc. which can be a problem. The passion on our site should be towards a positive end which is what we can enforce through defining our identity a little more clearly.
Or else lets make more efforts in getting more people from the mainstream onto PFC, if we want a completely representative viewership. You can’t have the cake and eat it too, you know.
Andy, I might be wrong in saying this but I don’t think that PFC consists of like-minded people. The NS issue will corroborate what I say. I more agree with the good cinema / bad cinema argument as that gets this site closer to its name: Passion for cinema. However – both of those are relative terms as well.
I think KANK was a progressive bullshit movie. I think Jab We Met was a fantastic but non at all progressive movie.
Then you have regressive great cinema as well.
I think there is a pride is being associated with different cinema (I have been through that road) but in the end – its either good or bad. If someone says that the movie is progressive / different when asked for a comment – they are are just afraid of saying that the movie sucked.
And frankly – I would like to see KJo, SLB fans come here and contribute. I am a big SLB fan and have no qualms in saying that Black is the best movie ever made in Bollywood after Sholay. And that includes all the different movies like Saaransh, Ardhsatya, Ankush etc from the breed of Govind Nihalani, Shyam Benegal and all else.
People here take pride in saying that they like different cinema and not that they like good cinema.
And it is unfortunate that those are the people who write the most and shout the loudest.
If you shout loud enough, false claims might seem true. Perception is reality my friend.
The question is “Does this site stand for Passion for Cinema or does it stand for Passion for different Cinema?”
@Shreyash
black is one of the best movies ..agreed ..but man its copied ..frame to frame …again no harm in remaking ..just they should have bought the copyrights or shld have given some credit to the original movie’s director….
Anand, I haven’t seen the original so cannot comment on that. But I think that Black was our best shot at Oscars and was washed away by Paheli…
Shreyash, i agree that paheli was wrong choice fro oscars ..but again black would not have been a good choice ….it would give a bad impression on our side ..had the directed given tribute to original then it would have been different story ..even Martin scorsese’s departed (oscar nominated) was remaked ..but it was copyrighted from original ….as a film maked SLB is great ..i loved khamoshi
What I’ve noticed on PFC is that a lot of the posters will call a commercial movie shit and they haven’t even seen it or they say they don’t want to see it. I think some of us should be more open to maybe seeing something they might not want to see…and they might even enjoy it. I never wanted to see Black Friday or anything like that type of movie, but I watched it because of listening to other peoples opinion on this site. Then of course I saw NS, but that was because of BF and Anurag’s blogs on here. Now because of PFC I just watched Manorama last night and what a great movie that was.
I didn’t just dismiss them because it wasn’t my type of cinema and I didn’t put them down without seeing them first….and I can’t put them down because they are all great movies.
ok, whenever this Black vs Paheli debate comes up, I cannot resist this. But for me, Paheli was leagues and leagues ahead of Black. That it didn’t get Oscar recognition doesn’t matter to me. One of my favorite movies of this decade.
@NovaDJ
Many says commercial movie shit is because they usually are. :D A look at the promos gives you the feeling that whether you will like it or not. So, I agree to the feeling that many posters do not watch commercial movie citing them as shit but I dont think anybody will discuss or debate the movie without watching it. Not watching is different because its a personal choice, but discussing without watching it is different. I watched 15 mins of Black but gave up after that based on AB and Rani’s atrocious acting. So my dislike of the movie is based on the initial few reels. I guess you watched BF and NS may be looking at the discussions here but it must have grabbed your attention enough in the first half an hour to justify full viewing.
@Omprakash
Promos for Indian movies do not always give the correct interpretation of the movie. Sometimes a movie looks really bad and it turns out to be good. I didn’t mean anyone was discussing the actual movie without seeing it, I meant sometimes there is some pre-judging going on….but that’s ok too, because I’ve learned not to get so angry on here anymore when commercial bashing happens.
What I like about the commercial movies is usually found in the imagination in the picturisations of the songs. The colors,costumes, music and camera movement . You don’t usually see that in films in the US….But, PFC has lead me to other types of films and I have found new things to appreciate. It’s not always songs now that get me excited, it’s now good stories that are filmed with imagination and I don’t even miss the musical numbers.
…but I hate to admit that I do love that wind machine blowing everyone’s hair! :”>
@NoVaDJ
For someone like me, who grew up on tan-tar-tara or dishum-dishum, “I love you, prem karuchoo” (Since you seem to be new to hindi commercial cinema, I dont know how much you will appreciate those examples); I believe I can smell trash in partner or dhol from miles apart :D I dont agree about the promos. Most of the promos (if not all) gives you the impression about what the movie is about. One do not need to know the exact details like OSO having reincarnation theme or saanwariya being based on white lights. A simple look at promos sufficiently suggests its the same old story in new packwage with a lot of beating around the bush. But general audience likes it and I dont have any problem with that. I just disagree with them.
About colors, costumes and imagination running wild; all I can say that I had an overdose of those things (unlike you) so its natural for me to crave for more indie films produced in US. The opposite is true for you.
“Now the important question is
I agree with your views boss… we are here to promote good cinema and different kind of cinema… But i also feel that people like K Jo or YRF or SRK aren’t so naive and fool to understand what we are saying.
They are feeding what is consumed, and it has worked in their favour and they are satisfied doing what they are, and i sometimes why should we even think about what they should be doing and what they shouldn’t, its their life, its their buisness strategy… I think its the audience who needs to go beyond the formula films and try out new films… Its high time people changed their idea of ‘entertainment’.
Thank god with People like Sriram, Shimit, Imtiaz, Anurag and many new upcoming directors that day is not far when we will have the best coming out of India.