Without malice…
You know what? Shahrukh Khan and Aamir Khan have buried their differences. For the cause of a body called the united forum or something like that. While talking of some pipeline that needs to be repaired, Mr. Shahrukh Khan says that the big guys will fight for the smaller guys (not verbatim but something to that effect). Thank you Mr Khan. I, your humble subject, your ‘small’ counterpart, am touched. Thank you master. Once the pipeline is repaired, maybe I will have water to drink.
Knock knock. Its not a water pipeline silly boy. Your masters are going to create a pipeline that will pour money for you. Silly Hansal.
Sorry master. I, your humble subject, your ‘small’ counterpart, am even more touched. Actually master, I am overwhelmed.
Overwhelmed. Really.
What is overwhelming is not the apparent patch up of two 40+ boys who have been squabbling over their silly numbers game for the past few months. What is overwhelming is the insensitivity of the media and this front called the united front when it uses this silly bonhomie to drive home a point. Why? Because most people missed the point. The media went there hoping to grab some more stupid headlines. The others were present merely to ensure that their presence at this circus was recorded. Just like people love getting their smiling faces clicked for page 3, 5, or 100 of these numb, dumb tabloids. Another opportunity drowned in the frivolity that mars most of our films. Another serious issue reduced to triviality. Another frustrated blog from me!
SRK and Aamir’s fight has been fodder for inquisitive, idle minds for the past few months. The same people who thrived on this fodder were called to hear the dueling duo’s exalted views about the plight of the film fraternity. What happened? More stupid news, more insults to our collective intelligence and more toilet paper delivered at our doorstep as every other morning. The point here, however, is not these two distinguished boys and their petty squabbles. The point here is that there is no point.
When I made ‘Chhal’ I was frustrated by the sheer high-handedness of the multiplexes towards my film. They were not willing to exhibit a film that would have catered primarily to an audience visiting their halls. The visuals, the sound design and the length of the film – all these needed and deserved good projection and audio facilities. The film deserved a slightly evolved audience. But that did not mean anything to the executive who ran these joy-rides which they called cinema halls. A film with Kay kay and Prashant Narayanan? Who the f..k are these guys? Directed by the director of a failure called ‘Dil pe mat le yaar’? Arre, haath mein le yaar, Sar pe le yaar but hamari mat le yaar. Sorry, our program is already full and if you wish to still exhibit your film here you will have to purchase shows… The death-knell for ‘Chhal’ was sounded even before the film was released. It was shown in theatres that had pathetic projection, out-dated sound and terrible pop-corn. I tried begging with some multiplex owners but in vain. The result was out even before the examination. A dejected film-maker. A depressed producer. A dispirited crew. All that effort, all that heart burn for nothing. This was six years ago.
Things have changed ever since. There are more screens, much better technology and much more varieties of pop-corn. But one thing has continued. They continue to look down upon the smaller film. They continue to deride the small and continue to suck up to the biggies. The message is simple. Accept a smaller share or no show. When we accept the smaller share, we get afternoon shows, matinee shows and some very late night shows. They continue to be disparaging, disapproving and condescending towards the efforts of smaller producers, smaller films and alternative cinema. In their minds we do not exist.
The truth is we do not even exist in the minds of the gentlemen who comprise the so-called united forum. Try selling your film to any one of them. Try pitching a great idea to any one of them. This my friends is the forum of the formulaic. This is the forum of the star-suckers. This is the forum of the bankrupt elite.
Equal rights for Friday nights – Shahrukh Khan.
Which Friday? What rights? Where were Anurag Kashyap, Dibakar Banerjee, Nishikant Kamath, Anjum Rizvi, Neeraj Pandey when the press met the honorable members of the united forum? If they were invited and did not go, well, my apologies for sounding so disparaging and for doubting the intelligence of the august men that graced the undersized podium.
When Firaaq, Barah Aanaa, Straight and Aloo Chaat flunked their exams at the box-office, the gentlemen from the exhibition circuit, the trade-gurus, the distributors and a lot of producers suddenly spoke more openly. They said, “Look at all the trash you feed us. See how these films have failed. How can you expect better terms when you give us such content?”. Everybody rushing to pull down the often alienated, very marginalized and perennially nascent independent cinema of this country. Almost as if they were waiting for their imminent failure. They forgot about Chandni Chowk to China. They pretended that Drona did not exist. They forgot to read the writing on the wall when it came to 8×10 or Tasveer or whatever that was. They forgot about the failure of Victory. They grudgingly acknowledged DevD – only when nudged. They dismissed the success of A Wednesday as a freak case. The selective amnesia of the myopic whole was there for everyone to see.
I am sorry but independent cinema in this country is doomed. We can continue to live in hope but until we are ruled by these torch bearers of ‘content’, until we are always trampled by these messiahs of the mainstream, independent will remain an expletive. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Is this piece a bit confused? Is this piece asking for anything? Is it offering a solution? Is it stating the problem clearly? Maybe not. I am merely trying to raise questions that arise in my mind. I am speaking from the heart and from experience. I want a just share of collections and an equal platform for all films. I respect the thought. My question is that will a misrepresented forum allow me to get that right? Is there anybody in that forum to hear my voice? Is there anybody in that forum that will voice my fears? Once a compromise is achieved will I go back to being an ignored minority, always at the mercy of the star system?
If my outpouring rings a bell in any of you, please lets have some healthy discussion on this forum called PFC. Lets find ways of keeping the independent, the small, the rebel, the maverick, the genius, the madcap alive. Lets not have another ‘Chhal’ bite the dust and another ‘Yeh Kya Ho Raha Hai’ or some such inanity take it’s place. Lets give ourselves a shot at rising above the mediocrity we live in. Talk to me.
With malice towards none,
Hansal Mehta.
.
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
We live in a world where every person lives in the illusion of superiority and ignorance of existence of other side and a heart to co-exist…damn secularism..hail religion’ism
Points well raised, but expecting others to fight your war will not help. SRK and AK are there to fight for themselves, though its disguised as a fight for the whole faternity. I don’t blame them. You need to fight your war yourself.
There should be a balance between art and business. Else, when the business overshadows art, the artiste becomes a prostitue, the arthouse a brothel and the art a trade (Dhandha).
Cinema is an expensive art, agreed. If it has to survive, then we need to seriously relook at the kind of films we make. There are no two ways about it. Sucking up in secret, and proclaiming war in public won’t work.
Indian cinema is the only industry where heroes decide what kind of stories should be made. artistic professionalism is near zero.
Commitment to cinema is little. Only thing people worry about is increasing the multi million bank account another few millions.
Exhibitors are not patrons, Hansal. You cannot expect them to support artistes cause. They dont care about the quality of the film. they only worry about the cash registers.
It is a fact that ‘Nonsense’ works better in our country. This idiocy can only be stopped if good cinema starts making money.
When someone is trying to break a system, there will be millions of people who are comfortable part of the system waiting to find fault in each and every move. Each small fault by an ‘outsider’ like you would be treated as humungous, whereas an ‘insider’s’ fatal error will be excused or even hidden from the lights.
This is historically the nature of man.
The only option is to revolt. There will be light at the end of the tunnel.
Another possibility is the entry of a more powerful external force which can disrupt the system upside down. In our case, Hollywood Studios is the only option. If biggies establish themselves here, they would concentrate on high investment / high return policy, which would ensure that each and every area of film making is given due importance and a process is established.
It should be not that I decide to make a Punjabi in Ugandan jungle (as Australia, Europe, Fareast are covered) cinema and sign up Dr.Akshay for that or vice versa, sign Dr.Akshay first and decide to make PUJ film. Dr.Akshay would have to audition for a role to find if its suitable for him. I am sure he would not land up in any movies, thereafter.
I may be day dreaming or exxagerating too much. Hollywood Studios have loopholes, bigshots call their shots there too. But the process ensures minimum quality and promotes real talent.
Or like Goddard, Truffaut, Resnais a group of renegades should throw some dynamite at a audience, that everyone are left spell bound. As the french new wave created a midnight revolution.
If only our audience get more reactively allergic towards ‘Nonsense’, good cinema will get more screen time and more revenue, which can be invested in more good films..
The angst is high…when countries like Iran, Kazhaksthan, Poland, China, Korea, Hong Kong can make excellent and successful cinema..have a system to support it…
Hope for the best…there is no option but good cinema to prevail…because nonsense has reached its peak of glory..now its time to get back to where it belongs…shithole..
@RAM
I agree with you. Exhibitors are not patrons of cinema or some such thing. The cash registers have to ring. It is a two-way traffic as in any other business. Our films have to make money for them. The only thing I ask for is a level playing field and the same benefit of doubt you would give to Abhishek Bachchan or Akshay Kumar. Have a system. Let all kinds of films exist in that system. May the best man win.
@AZAD
Thanks for the advice.
@RAM
Well written. Well thought out. May the force be with you!
Hansal, i have been asking this question many times. If multiplexes and exhibitors keep displaying their boorish attitude towards small movies, why not move away from them.
Why not tap the DVD market, the way Indie movie makers in the US do? Is it not possible to have an Indian Shawshank Redemption, i mean not a copy, but a movie that was a commercial failure, getting back all its revenues through DVD sales?
I would hate the indie movement to fail. It brings to the table, a tendency to think out of the box, better scripts, better screenplay writing. Is it any surprise that some of the best directors currently in Hollywood Christopher Nolan, Bryan Singer, Robert Rodriguez, Jim Jarmusch, David Lynch are all indie movie makers.
I am fed up of watching rubbish in the name of entertainment like “CC2C”, “Tashan”,”Tasveer 8×10″,”ADZ”. How long should we act dumb just to stoke the egoes of a bunch of ego maniacs? Hansal what i feel is create an alternative distribution and marketing network. Flood the DVD market, tie up with You Tube or Torrent to show your movies, for a fee. I mean if multiplexes play high and mighty, give em the middle finger, and create your own network.
In Korea we had this concept of DVD Bangs, or DVD parlors, where some one can rent a DVD of their choice, and watch it in a home theater kind of environment. Its not a new concept, we had the video parlors during the 80’s here. And this could actually make sure your kind of movies get exposure in those places which usually dont get to see it.
I live in Bhubaneshwar, more of a small town, and the only Bollywood flicks i get here are the mainstream stuff. But there are many passionate movie lovers in this city, who are willing to watch a Mumbai Meri Jaan or Gulaal, but since those movies dont come in theaters, we r forced to see it in DVD or online. Now consider this in a city like Bhubaneshwar, if we had a DVD parlor, we could just hop over and watch the same movie legally. So its like a win win situation, we get to see the movies we wanted, and your movies get more exposure away from the metros and multiplexes,just think it over.
@RATNAKAR
Digital theaters reduce print cost substantially, have limited capacities and are growing in number around the country. They definitely are one of the solutions. Exhibiting more and more indie films at these places will gradually build an audience. Indie film-makers on their part need to make their films more engaging and producers need to work out cost-effective promotional plans to make this kind of a model work. Both producers and directors have mastered the art of cutting costs and with the advent of digital these costs will definitely come further down. What they need to master is the marketing game and where the exhibitors need to help is in supporting these films without depending merely on the first weekend collections. A fair give and take is the need of the hour.
Hansal,
Some of the hollywood movies go straight to DVD and don’t get released. Slumdog millionaire almost went that path. And it was directed by Danny Boyle…!! The reason it eventually got released and got all that success was studios and rest of the chain saw the potential when the original studio dropped the project.
My point being, our small/indie producers/directors should be open to new ideas and approaches to sell their movies. Have distributors see them. And get sample audience reactions etc. At the end of the day, once inside the cinema, no matter what we do to pay our bills, we are still patrons and people will see the movie as it is and can make their mind.
There are no free lunches in this world and no one should have it easy or demand (equal) opportunity. You should earn it. RGV being a prime example. You never see him not having backers for his movies irrespective of his flops.
YASH,
Agree with you on that. The independent film-makers need to be as open as we want the others to be. I’m sure all the indie film-makers are open to new approaches to sell their movies.
RGV, well I really dont know how much one can look at him as an example anymore. Besides Satya there is precious little that he has done which can remotely be classified as independent. In any case we do need to learn from him – The art of survival. The art of PR. The art of garnering attention. All important skills in todays times.
“Besides Satya there is precious little that he has done which can remotely be classified as independent. In any case we do need to learn from him – The art of survival. The art of PR. The art of garnering attention. All important skills in today’s times.”
You were spot on, with that..!!
BTW, you know what..? There are people like me who come to this site, who are in pure awe, inspired, encouraged and challenged to re-focus and achieve our dreams just like you, Anurag, Anish etc did, irrespective of it being in arts or other fields. Stay positive amd keep trying. Fail few times, but don’t give up. Hang in there.
With new avenues opening up in media and communication, these empires will crumble and change is near.. Just keep going, look at the sheer number of new wave movies that are releasing and eventually the patron base will swell to sustain this eco-system on it’s own without having to reach the aam admi ( with due respect and no malice intended).
Like the gore films of Hollywood, where there is a market for them and an audience to sustain on them alone.
Creating market is more important in this context. Penetration of indie movies to urban markets i.e. capital cities of all states. But on other note I feel that there should be good critics not the current set of writers for newspapers. Because these days most people in metros look into times of india or other new paper to decide which movie to watch in the weekend. If they put slightest of doubts then opportunity lost.
Well! Nice and honest article Bro.It was also burning inside me but it is juts you wrote already. I even have my own analysis of this issue and my part of thought is, we the independent film makers are also responsible to a big extent, wanna know how..ok
I see this industry as a circular group of established people which had joined hands (though deep core they are enemies but united for one great cause) & that noble cause is no one except them would be able to secure a place,
Otherwise you just explore the data of our Indian movies and you will get the actual % of movies casting new comers or directors.
Now when any one of us (the non-background ones) put his hard work for years and supported by a common interest community (which is required by any independent film maker), makes an impact and noticed then rather he tries to pull one more fellow with him, he kicks him hard and joined that circular group and behaves like he was always there and he never turns around.BELEIVE ME IT’S A HARD TRUTH.
Because many of independent filmmakers are looking for short term gains or sometimes survival but no one is clear about where they are heading don’t blame them but that way we can never reach and change this industry. Yes I am committed to this aim. Let’s see…..but I respect what u have added in your blog.
Hansal one more point, in the US, the university towns played a major role in promotion of indie cinema. Generally campuses in US, also tend to be left leaning, liberal kind, and the indie movement found a ready made ground there. Students who had watched those movies, spread the word of mouth around by blogs, discussion forums etc.
Here too in India, there are certain universities which have the kind of students who love watching these flicks. JNU, Roorke, IIT’s, Pondicherry are some i can think of.
And there are two territories in India, which can be a real good ground for promoting the indie flicks-Kerala and North East. Kerala does not have multiplexes, but it has one of the best movie going audiences in the country. And the theaters there are pretty good also. The North East also has a lot of enthusiastic movie going audiences, and who love watching flicks other than the standard mainstream fare.
Hansal, questions well raised. But yes, we need to understand that exhibitors are not patrons of cinema, they are businessmen. Unless Ronnie and Anurag open theatres, I see no hope of seeing empathy for the ‘art of cinema’ by Mr. Bijli or Mr. Ambani. Exhibitors fleece the audience and they need to know that! I have gone to see a ‘tax free’ film in a multiplex and still paid full price. The money advantage was clearly not passed on to me. And yes, we also need to acknowledge that we have had mediocre content releasing over several months. But that’s a business risk that exhibitors take. Just like producers take when they make a film. Exhibitors have no business to question why we make what!
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Rahi baat about SRK and Aamir being the torch bearers of the ‘united forum’, I understand what you are trying to say, but I also urge you to see that they really might have been there to address the issue. I am from the fraternity and I agree that selling any film to any of the people on that podium is almost impossible. They are tough nuts to crack. But honestly tell me, [with malice towards no one ;) ], would the media have covered the event and issue as widely if 25 Anjum Rizvi’s stood there instead of SRK and Aamir? When the powerful take a stand, it makes all the difference. Of course this in no way means they are not looking at their personal gains. Of course they are! Par agar ek SRK ke saath do chhote producers ka bhalaa ho jaaye with the passing of a blanket rule, what’s the harm?
@ARATI
The issue is not SRK-Aamir or their concern. I am sure they are genuinely concerned. My problem is that perhaps their presence has deflected attention away from the important issues, particularly considering their ‘fight’ of the last few months. I also have an issue with the press that covers these events. The tabloid journalists without an investigative bone, only looking for screaming headlines and sensationalism cover these events. In the bargain the issue gets diluted and nothing really gets resolved. Rhetoric will not solve any problems. Logic, negotiation and clear communication are needed. Not childish headlines.
Hansal, you have raised valid points. But may be thats how the film business works. And the media works the same way too. Like ‘business’ has only one goal – ‘profit’, media aims only at attention grabbing exercises. Likewise, SRK and Aamir came to do THEIR own little business. They will, in this reccession affected market, not be getting the HUMONGOUS fees that they’ve been extracting from the Producer’s profit. Now the producers also had a grudge over the exhibitors “keeping too much”. Hence, the united show. If the producers are not in a postition to paAlso, SRK and Aamir knew very well that every single media organization will fall for their ‘tactics’. May be the ‘other film makers’ were also called to keep the record straight. But the ‘other film makers’ continued their own battle by means of abstaining, many of whom fear their brand equity could be harmed by the presence of SRK and Karan Johars. I am a small time worker in Bollywood. My pockets are not deep enough to survive this stalemate, yet I’ve realized that my small film will fetch only a small price from the exhibitors or it might even be rejected unless backed by a big producer. All I am trying to say is we have to fight our own battle. I seriously doubt if a discussion, as sought by you, will help. I think most of us are very selfish and opportunists. Sorry sir. It’s sad but true.
Hansal-as far as the angst of small movies getting released is concerned I’m with you.But why use the SRK/Aamir press meet as a kind of sounding board for the same? After all this meet was IMO meant for 2 reasons-
)
1. To make the producer/distributor’s forum get some hot shot publicity
2. And to kind of act as a pseudo patch up between these two stars.
Also one needs to remember that these 2 guys were just showing their solidarity for the producer-distributor forum ( its another matter that they are producers themselves too
What are you have written is about the lack of appreciation from the multiplexes to showcase the smaller films & I do agree that its a genuine problem- so in this case why write about the press meet which was supportive of the producers & distributors but not the multiplexes?
@ Hansal (14): Point taken. I agree.
@SETHUMADHAVAN
Well this is a blog and reflects my thoughts… the thoughts are not necessarily in linear order… My only problem with the press meet was that it deflected attention from whatever the producer/distributor combine were/are trying to achieve. My angst with multiplexes somewhere reflects a concern from which attention was diverted by the coming together of Aamir-SRK at the press meet.
My question is whether the so called “Biggies” are really interested in any solution coming out? Both parties knew very well that because of the IPL and later the elections no “Big” releases were coming out. The “strike” was timed so well that none of their films are getting affected. ADZ was sacrificed on the alter. Tasveer was given a window. If they really wanted to put pressure on the multiplexes they would not have done that. Now the very example of Tasveer is being quoted by the Multiplex guys for sustaining them for few more weeks.
If we are talking about the so called small film producers(i am not using the term independent, as no one is independent) who are like “Dhobi ke kutee na ghar ke na ghat ke”, there are and were no mai baaps here, no stars, no media, no supporters at all. Let us face that fact that small film producers have to fight their own battles.
Hansal, the producer-directors surely needed the SRK-Aamir as a 100 Anjum Rizvis’ presence would not have attracted that kind of media glare. And sure enough SRK-Aamir made the best use of it. I totally agree with you.
Anirudhya, Shivajee -
Everybody does fight their own battle. I would believe even SRK, Aamir, AB do the same. All of us whether it is writing, planning, pitching, funding, producing, directing, selling, distributing do fight our own battles. But when people come together you can only express a wish to be heard. You cannot say that I am big and I will also fight for the small guys. Dont dismiss the small like this. Hear the small guys out. Try to understand them. I found the whole thing a bit condescending and hence my reaction. The reason 100 Anjum Rizvis or 50 Sunil Doshis would not have been heard was precisely my point. The wrong media was covering the event. The paparazzi do not cover business. They are in the business of sensationalism. They sell sex to the starved. The PR sttrategy of the united forum despite its noble objectives is flawed. Just an opinion guys. I am anyways fighting my own battle…
@ Hansal
A small sub plot-
Being a Media Researcher, i deal with viewership behavior on TV. Broadcasters, Media Agencies and Advertisers play the same game on small screen. The fight for TRPss will take them to any lows; including the so called “News Channels”. Ask any braodcaster to put a movie like Bheja Fry on Prime Time and they will mock you for sure.But they have no qualms about airing C grade south dubbed movies. Its all about TRPs.
Same applies to the war at BO.I am sad, angry and heart broken and i agree with you that INDEPENDENT CINEMA is dead. But i genuinely feel and think there is a way out.
Marketing:- Laser Sharp focus on Target Groups. I dont know about exact numbers, but a small budget movie made on a budget of 5-7 crores, would atleast need 3 lakh tickets to be sold at multiplexes?Tying up with the same multiplexes to get some data out of viewers who watch a particular kind of movies and getting a database on a all india scale. studying their media consumption habits(this is the researcher in me),one can market a movie almost exclusively for them at a minute cost of what is the being spent right now. And that makes for much better ROI. I really do think doing a research on your audience is as important as doing a research on movie subject .
Some amount of Viewer Profiling can be obtained from forums like PFC, DVD outlets, movie websites, IMDB forums and other online portals of same genre.
Also can like minded individual come under a umbrella and release movies under same name. To be frank i am all for small budget movies doing well at BO. But just campaigning for every small budget movie, just for the sake of it, is loosing the point. If there is brand name where we are assure of a good product, then no matter the reviews; the reach of the movies will definitely increase!
Malice towards all!
@Shreyansh,
Good, constructive stuff. Food for thought.
First up, I saw Chhal at Shaan.You brought up great memories Hansal in this post
I have been trying to figure out a solution for this mess (what could be a solution).
At the end of this fracas…the viewers will be still taken for a ride at the multiplex and indie filmmaker will find it tough.
@Hansal-
Thanks, i am all for giving this idea a shot. If you think it can work, do jot down some areas where this “formula” can be implemented.
@22 Shreyansh…excellent point.I donno if any of our film makers use focus groups, marketing research data to construct their plot, or structure…
Hansal, have you tried it?
But all said and done, film is a creative medium, a stimulus can spring off a thought which could become a movie. But while converting the thought into a movie, we can use these techniques to devise the final product. Like showing the rushes to a focus group and improve the product. Its better to reshoot and release a successful movie, than release something that have chances to fail. There should be producers who are ready to reshoot and ensure that end product is as success-ready as possible.The creative freedom might be cut down but success rate will definitely increase by using scientific methods. Nothing can ofcourse, ensure 100% success, but things will improve. We would surely not have Barah Anna, Straight, Firaaq and likes nosediving together. A balance needs to be achieved – the film should be accessible to the larger audience, and at the same time with content.
Gradually, when the audience get accustomed to good content, then creative freedom can be excercised further The audience would respond better then. Now, they are responding better to Indie films than 10-15 years before. So a measured effort for the next 5-10 years can change the situation drastically.
Marketing – A good film, but not exceptional one like ‘Juno’ was made into a success by the crtics and studios. SDM, Crash are other examples. Anurag Kashyap is getting good marketing from PFC and some critics who are awe struck by his talent. So his movies, they are good no doubt, get better exposure as compared to others. Anurag also seems to do a lot of home work.
Someone mentioned RGV earlier- yes RGV was also a good example, but his legend died when he started sucking up to the Bachchan family. He is not to be written off, that guy has got disruptive talent. He can come back. I think he has not explored his talent to the full, as the intoxication of money must have clouded the intoxication of creativity. One would not know…
@RAM
Yes, it is important to learn from Anurag, RGV and so many others… Focus groups, marketing strategy, innovative PR and branding – these are skills all of us need to learn. Independence does not mean shying away or putting yourself on a pedestal. It just means that you need to work harder to get your work produced, watched, appreciated and successful. Maybe we could create some forum here on PFC to structure some of the wonderful ideas pouring in… To create a strategy document and to provide a valuable resource for many independent endeavors. Any ideas?
hansal,
a few q’s – what’s your next project? are you directing for sanjay gupta or sanjay dutt? what’s happening with ‘RAAKH’? is ‘ALIBAUG’ sanjay gupta’s first original story?
@ricky
I dont think this is the place to answer these questions.
But no film for Sanjay G or Sanjay D. ‘Raakh’ is something best answered by the producers. And ‘Alibaug’ is best answered by Sanjay Gupta.
@Hansal & Ram-
I am in!
@Hansal..well, I am well on my way to proving the prevalent ways of marketing a movie wrong..have gone deep into the focus areas of small film conceptualization,Marketing strategy,cost efficiency management and Revenue Business plans based on present trends..lets see where it takes me, abyss or summit?!
Wow! This was hidden and something else made the headlines, seriously utter crap. These guys need more money, BIG money and that too very fast. Its like our fast food, should be tasty and served fast. A very valid and appreciable point brought by Hansal. Sadly the voices for it would be less and if voiced may take long time to be heard(Just heard).
Ive heard about “Chhal” and did see some of its posters, looked intriguing. Hope we could have seen it. The list is many….from ‘Paanch’ & ‘Black Friday’ to the recent ‘Manorama 6 feet Under’ & ‘Stone Man Murders’….. and again the people are just not the multiplex owners, but also the producers who still need jhankaar beats, masala mix, remix, reincarnation, recycled cinema, regressive cinema, refurbished cinema, all old but packed(copied) wonderfully(marketed) in a new bottle(high quality prints).
@ ram, hansal –
be careful what u wish for. u do not want to go down the focus group route. this is one of the prime reasons for the terrible quality of most hollywood films these days. they are focus grouped to death. i will write a detailed post on the pitfalls of using focus groups.
@dabba…no technique is bad…only the users are…you can create an atom bomb or a nuclear reactor…choice is yours
@Hansal…yes I agree…we need to seriously take this forward….discussing with great fervour here and forgetting tomorrow moring would not help anyone..will not change anything…a forum or group..in yahoo, google..wherein we can share ideas, plan actions and post the finalized plans of action back on to PFC..Then the most important and difficult step..implement those actions..
There are so many of us here..from different fields..with different ideas…but one love…Cinema..lets make it better..
@Hansal… I have one question. Why not independant reviewers post reviews of indie films one week before the movie and publish it in some 5-10 sites so that google throws that up the moment you search for it. Believe me Dev D uncut version review had many people waking up and waiting for it to release. Indie filmmakers still dont understand the power of internet. Majority of the indie movie audience will be using internet. Marketing through internet is the cheapest and if intelligently used you may need not spend also.
@ Cherish, i guess you are looking towards a Rotten Tomatoes model. Now in fact why dont we start to publish the reviews on RT itself. Right now i just checked into RT, and saw that Dev D had zero reviews to it’s name. For me if i need the dope on the latest foreign flick, i check into RT as that gives me an overall idea. We could leverage RT for our desi Indie flicks too.
I am really excited by the enthusiasm shown here. Will take it up with others at PFC. Lets find a specific place here to be able to do this. Watch this space for further details.
Oz,OM,t!, editors, authors any ideas for taking this forward?
“Indie filmmakers still dont understand the power of internet”
I would say more specifically Indian Indie movie makers, because indie movie makers in the West, have actually promoted their movies a lot on the Web and through DVD’s.
@Ratnakar… very true. I too checked it sometime back without luck since I too believe in RT (sometimes IMDB sucks). And I too was referring to Indian Indie filmmakers:)
I guess posting in RT will not be solution. Leveraging Internet to reach the target audience. What I mean there should be some dedicated marketing team from the movie sitting and promoting it in best possible way. Personal touch gets the best result. When AK replies, theres satisfaction. That translates into more audience. Which inturn translates in word of mouth marketing. Traditional marketing is not the way out
@ Hansal, Ram V and Ratnakar
Birds of same feather really do flock together. I think even a dedicated group of 4-5 guys, can start implementing this project.
We all can work in our area of expertise and interests towards a common goal.
For starters, if we can work for a upcoming small budget project on the same theme, we will be bale to see the ground reality.
Waiting 4 ur inputs Hansal.
1. To begin with lets continue the discussion here… Let ideas flow.
2. One person to collect all the points gained out of this discussion and then we structure them into bullet points.
3. We create a post that summarizes and creates the initial strategy document
4. Give this document/group a name…
Lets go for it…
@Hansal…way to go..
@All…since Shreyansh was the one who initiated this route..I think we should offer him to take up this responsibility…
@Shreyansh…request you to help us in preparing this document..We have to name the document…any ideas?…something like ‘The PFC Guide for Innovative techniques in Film Making’…to0 academic… :-)
Just to channelize the ideas…lets come out with a list of issues that we can discuss on
Purpose of the discussion:-
The major problems/concerns faced by middle-of-the-line cinema in India?
How to ensure such films are made, distributed and exhibited successfully?
Who are the stakeholders and what role each one can play?
What are the techniques that can be utilized to better the above mentioned purposes?
Please add more points of discussion..
great i support and request me to add for this good cause……
Well!honest article Bro.It was also burning inside me but it is juts you wrote already. I even have my own analysis of this issue and my part of thought is, we the independent film makers are also responsible to a big extent, wanna know how..ok
I see this industry as a circular group of established people which had joined hands (though deep core they are enemies but united for one great cause) & that noble cause is no one except them would be able to secure a place,
Otherwise you just explore the data of our Indian movies and you will get the actual % of movies casting new comers or directors.
Now when any one of us (the non-background ones) put his hard work for years and supported by a common interest community (which is required by any independent film maker), makes an impact and noticed then rather he tries to pull one more fellow with him, he kicks him hard and joined that circular group and behaves like he was always there and he never turns around.BELEIVE ME IT’S A HARD TRUTH.
Because many of independent filmmakers are looking for short term gains or sometimes survival but no one is clear about where they are heading don’t blame them but that way we can never reach and change this industry. Yes I am committed to this aim. Let’s see…..but I respect what u have added in your blog.
Keep going guys… Have requested other authors/editors to join in and help with their feedback. I am also trying to structure my thoughts. Will butt in only once you guys have come up with stuff. You guys have fresh ideas, a fresh perspective that could be invaluable if channelized. I will try to help with my experience, will try to play devil’s advocate and provide whatever assistance is required… Cheers!
I dont know if this is a localized phenomenon to Bollywood alone. In regional markets there are lots of small movies that keep getting made and find their way to the theatres as well. Is it the multiplexes that are the reason? Earlier Jaideep write in detail about multiplexes and Big pictures derailing hulla from both sides.
In regional cinema, there is a considerable patronage from state governments. Thamizh Nadu state government gives cash compensation for small budget movies. Though the emergence of TV serials has meant that many small budget producers have gone to the small screen, still there are some making some movies. Financiers for small budget movies in thamizh cinema too are willing to play on risky subjects (Vijay – you can shed more light on that) – strangely Bollywood with larger number of screens at its disposal and well channelled funding is still shaky in support of the low and medium budget good movies. I wonder what Hrishida would make if he were in this era?
Totally Agree boss!!! Totally!!! But if ya see it,the multiplex owners to a certain extent are still caught in a time-warp when it comes to the release of Independent films!! They still like to go with the odds of a “Drona” or a “Chandni Chowk To China” as compared to a “Firaaq” or a “Baarah Aana”…..It’s just plain hedging
….They still need time to come to terms with the commercial viability of projects that are off the beaten track..Time is the factor here 
@Vikram
I agree that time is the factor here. Question is, can we accept that and just sit tight? We need to play our part in making these films attractive to the exhibitors and audience. That is the reason I say that independent film-makers need to be on some common platform to address communication and marketing issues. If the multiplexes are into hedging we are guilty of under-selling our wares. We cannot hide behind some artistic or superiority pretext. We need to tackle, talk and move in a more pro-active manner.
hey Hansal, liked your article. Another major fact behind this so called ’solidarity stand’ against multiplexes is the overseas Indian Premier League which starts from 18th April. Many of our leading stars along with Mr. Shahrukh Khan will be busy with his team. I think both of them Aamir and Sharukh have co-ordinated a perfect timing for (what the media fonly calls0 patch up.
ok so i didn’t have the time to go through all the comments, so if anyone has mentioned this before i’m sorry.
.
i think that besides promoting indie films effectively, we also need to promote the culture – what it stands for. we should figure out how to promote sites like PFC better…and that’s critical for establishing a culture that encourages small-budget content-driven cinema. having lived in the US for 6 years, the biggest difference i see is that there are enough people in the US who think of cinema as an art form, not just commerical business. to spread ideas like that in india, we need PFC to go to more people, and we need more websites/blogs like PFC to promote good cinema.
.
someone mentioned that people like anurag k etc have to open up movie theaters. that’s a very valid point. in the US there are tons of ‘arts theaters’ which regularly screen artsy/different/alternative cinema and have their own dedicated patrons. it doesn’t have to be a big success, but i think there’s a market out there for something like this in cities like mumbai, delhi, pune etc. just a small theater with a few halls or even a single screen…but which focuses on small budget films.
I also feel Indie Films should start promoting their films in college fests/campuses directly.
End a College festival with your film.
New Line took birth in that manner.
Understanding the mind of the audience is the most difficult thing.
Why dont we conduct a simple poll in PFC to bring out what people actually expect from a good film? PFC might be mostly mature audience, but still it would expose the myths we carry.
We can enlist the different elements of cinema, and ask the visitors to vote on wny they would go to see a cinema in the hall?
Hansal, Editors is it possible? That can bring a lot of insight into the real side of the audience when it comes to expressing their belief.
Another idea I have is to make cinema by selling cinema shares. Something like privately funded cinema, with a large amount of investors. We can share script excerpts or basic plot with interested investors. If they feel, they can buy some shares in the film. They would be paid of the profit made..
This will ensure that the investors themselves will act as evangelist for the film as well. If one investor could rope in 100 audience. Then if there are 1000 investors, we have 100000 people assured to see the movie. any thoughts? If the movie is good..then each on of the 100000 can refer 10 each..we have a superhit…viral marketing in cinema… :-)..too much exaggerated…as a sales pitch should be…but worth a try
A thing I noticed was the lack of a wider publicity campaign for small films. Most of the time its too little too late. As a recent example, Barah Aana hardly had any publicity on television and most people I know weren’t even aware of it. By the time good word spread about it, it was too late as it was already out of the theaters.
I have consistently seen this happen with some good small films and consequently, the lack of a sustained campaign (well before the release date) results in public un-awareness about these films. I understand that these are smaller films and do not have truck loads of cash to spend on publicity but with a little imagination and with the kind of internet awareness we have today, something could be worked out.
Come to think of it, even Firaaq was hardly on television (I don’t remember seeing any promotions).
And people like Anurag Kashyap, Ashutosh Gowaritkar or even Farhan Akhtar could probably “present” a film which they deem should receive a wider audience. Someone credible enough in the industry could at least help out!
“Why dont we conduct a simple poll in PFC to bring out what people actually expect from a good film?”
It wont work Ram, because of the simple fact people themselves are not sure what a good movie constitutes. Some one like me would stress on character development, screenplay, visualization. For some sheer visual stuff would make a good movie. Its absolutely hard.
If the Wachowski Brothers were to take audience feedback, before Matriz were released, many would have told em, “Hey who is gonna watch this movie, it has such a weird storyline”. Neither did any one give Star Wars a ghost of a chance to succeed.
And if the students behind Blair Witch Project, had taken an audience poll, they sure wud have got a thumbs down.
The basic funda of show biz is “No one knows anything yet”. None gave Page 3 a whiff of a chance, against Kisna, but we know what happened. So the best way put in your effort, market your movie, and trust God. Yeah i know it sounds simplistic, but there is nothing more effective than trusting yourself and your gut feel, it works 8/10 times.
Ratnakar, that is the whole idea..We want to demystify this hazy blurr..lot of research firms in hollywood have tried it…some succeeded, some in vain…when my whole MBA batch was doing summern interns in different corporates, I went to Kerala Film Chambers and Theatre Owners …around 6 years ago..Malayalam cinema was in bad shape..Everyone wanted to know why…we made a case and presented it…It had nothing new…but whatever one had thought was supported by public data..
Now this poll i suggest is a simple one..not a complicate affair to specific to any film…just to analyze the website visitors mindset..it might not be accurate..as some people may be pretentious…the idea is to prepare a questionnaire which will ensure that chances of lying is reduced and covers all elements of cinema (there are around 15 basic elements that we came about during my project).
What needs to come out of the poll is that, which aspect of filmmaking do people give a lot of importance…it re-iterates the need to concentrate on some departments that filmmakers tend to overlook..like resul’s sound….
There is nothing more effective than trusting yourself and your gut feel—true, but 80-90% of our movies are making losses…it doesn’t seem to work..
@ Ram
Well if you are seeking such a poll, IMO, there are some common factors on which people do rate a movie.
* Characterization- For a movie to really work, interesting characters are a must. Raiders of Lost Ark, worked because of Indiana Jones, it was a character that played on your innermost fantasies, something which you always wanted to be. The reason RGV’s Aag failed, was Babban’s character was nowhere even close to Gabbar. And the characters played by Ajay Devgan and the other guy, were not even a patch on Jai and Veeru. What would Godfather be without Don Corleone, Michael or Sonny, or even the assorted supporting characters? Would Shawshank have been such a classic if Andy and Red were not that well developed?. If you take some of the greatest movies made, you will find that all of them have memorable characters.
* Story/Script/Screenplay- Movie needs to have an interesting story or screenplay. It need not be radical or path breaking. Imitiaz Ali, showed us how a standard boy meets girl theme, could be made into a crackling entertainer in Jab We Met. Lagaan was predictable, we knew that the villagers would win in the end, but it was the way Ashutosh manages to set up the match, the tension, the events, that hold your interest right till the end.
* Its Different- Sometimes movies run because they are different, though they may not necessarily be great. Jism was a scene to scene rip off of Body Heat, but yet it was released at a time, when people were growing weary of NRI Love Stories and Wedding Video movies, so when they saw something that had a dark storyline, characters with shades of grey, a different narration they just lapped it up big time, yeah the scenes also helped. Same thing with RGV’s Bhoot, it broke all conventions of the Bollywood horror flick, and people loved it. Its like you are abroad, and you get bored of having burgers and pizza daily, and want to taste something else. But just being different does not work, CC2C, ADZ, Tasveer all had different stories, but the narration ruined them.
* Performances- Nothing gets people hooked better than some solid acting. And nothing hooks people more than a performance that makes you say “Man, none else expect he/she could have done it”.
Just some thoughts in mind, will get back to u later with more.
Hansal,
You’re not thinking from the multiplexes’ standpoint. They have a reason to be against the smaller films: audience tends to go w/ the stars and only rarely, it actually goes w/ a good film with lesser known starcast…So, in a way, they’re reflecting the minds of the audience when they demand a bigger pie of revenue sharing for small films. Maybe, for smaller films, u can tell them: as producers, we’ll cover ur operating costs, but beyond that, share a higher pie (a model that is followed in some countries, looks like).
I dont think the independent cinema is doomed. It’s just that film-makers are not focusing on the basics: good script, gripping narration, strong performances taking the script fwd, etc….I dont think Chall would have met success even if it’d have been released in multiplexes…inherently, it was a bad film w/ a bad script (sorry to be blunt, but….)
Re SRK-Aamir, there was actually never a comparison anyways. Yes, media just likes to create masala stories. But in his career, SRK has just latched on to stardom of the big film-makers like Chopra…he has mostly worked in ’safe’ films giving the same stupid romantic/angelic expressions in every film (except rare films like Chak De, Swades). But Aamir has dared to venture into unchartered territories and has hence up-leved the Indian cinema a notch up in the global stage (Lagaan, Taare..). So, all the talk about number game is irrelevant because SRK’s cinema stands nowhere compared to Aamir’s…
just my 2c,
-sanjit
www.aamir-khan.com
@ Hansal, Ram V and Ratnakar….
Sorry for the late reply.
Thanks 4 d immense interest shown in the idea.Creating a forum is a great idea. And as suggested by Ram and Ratnakar(Ratnakar bhai, apne naam ka short form bolo, mere jaisa tumhara bhi bahut lamba hain).
Would request all to send their e-mail ids on neel219@gmail.com
I will create a group and we can take the discussion there.
“Use of Quali Reserach in Movie Marketing”
Hows does that sound?
Shreyansh u can shorten it to Ratna, thats what most of my friends call me anyway.
@60..
Thanks Ratna!
@Ratnakar…good insight on how one would analyze the failure/success of a movie.
But in order to statistically analyze the responses from multiple people.
I have created an online survey – with some inputs from my film marketing…student days..
http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=k75lijzy833d02m577147
You can check it out…could any PFC author publish this one in PFC..Hansal or Ratnakar…
I will extract the results and send share with all of us so that we can discuss further in detail…
Hansal,
You’re not thinking from the multiplexes’ standpoint. They have a reason to be against the smaller films: audience tends to go w/ the stars and only rarely, it actually goes w/ a good film with lesser known starcast…So, in a way, they’re reflecting the minds of the audience when they demand a bigger pie of revenue sharing for small films. Maybe, for smaller films, u can tell them: as producers, we’ll cover ur operating costs, but beyond that, share a higher pie (a model that is followed in some countries, looks like).
I dont think the independent cinema is doomed. It’s just that film-makers are not focusing on the basics: good script, gripping narration, strong performances taking the script fwd, etc….I dont think Chall would have met success even if it’d have been released in multiplexes…inherently, it was a bad film w/ a bad script (sorry to be blunt, but….)
Re SRK-Aamir, there was actually never a comparison anyways. Yes, media just likes to create masala stories. But in his career, SRK has just latched on to stardom of the big film-makers like Chopra…he has mostly worked in ’safe’ films giving the same stupid romantic/angelic expressions in every film (except rare films like Chak De, Swades). But Aamir has dared to venture into unchartered territories and has hence up-leved the Indian cinema a notch up in the global stage (Lagaan, Taare..). So, all the talk about number game is irrelevant because SRK’s cinema stands nowhere compared to Aamir’s…
just my 2c,
-sanjit
www.aamir-khan.com
All this from a person who only made one good film in his career, Chhal. Newsflash, most if the independent cinema that comes out of india sucks, and so do many commercial films. The thing is, commercial films have more to attract a viewer than independent films. If an independent film sucks, it sucks period, there is nothing you can enjoy. At least in a commercial film, if the movie sucks, you might enjoy the music or the special effects or the action or something to that effect. Firaaq was garbage, deserved its fate, Barah Aana was good, and it’s a shame it didnt get its due credit at the box office. Also, I can’t see what your issue is with the big guy little guy thing. The big guy is where he is because he has accomplished so much in his career, and you with all due respect have turned out shit film after shit film, with the exception of Chhal. So what is your issue if someone exponentially more successful than you wants to fight for you
@ Ram V – 62
Good one…. can we add more aspects to it?
@ KK…
“All this from a person who only made one good film in his career, Chhal”
So how many masterpieces have u created???
U will certainly enjoy Tashans if Firaaq is garbage for you.
@KK
truly honored that you liked one of my films. you are entitled to your opinions and angst. maybe that angst will help you create some brilliant films and you wouldn’t have to hide behind the garb of a pseudonym like KK in the future… all the best…
I am not a public figure nor do I intend to be, hence the pseudonym. My point is very simple, accomplish something before you complain. If an Anurag Kashyap, Dibakar Banerjee, or a Neeraj Pandey made the comments you did, I would not have responded the way I did because they have accomplished something, they are talented individuals. You have full right to complain about whatever you would like to complain about, I just could not stop myself from responding when I read the comment. I like how you automatically use the “you create brilliant films” defense assuming I want to make films. I am a member of the audience, and in case you forgot, I am the one that is supposed to be entertained, not the one entertaining. A chef at a restaurant wouldn’t tell a customer maybe your angst will help you create brilliant dishes yourself. Making movies is not my job, so there is no reason for me to be good at it, it is your job however so you should be good at it.
@KK
i do not like calling past work an accomplishment because it is behind me. if i have failed to entertain you i may have failed in your eyes. i have toiled hard for many years and have tried my best – without much support. i have no complaints and take immense pride in my work. i own up to the bad films i made and feel equally responsible for those i consider good enough. your opinion is respected but beyond a point does not matter to me. i apologize for assuming your were part of the film business. it explains your naivety and ignorance. i am afraid your analogy about a restaurant is slightly off the mark. you can drive out customers who create a nuisance in restaurants. i cannot do the same to a commenter who is ignorant and rude. i cannot do the same to an audience whose sensibility does not agree with mine. like you consider the opinions and accomplishments of my above mentioned colleagues as important, i consider your comments insulting, insensitive, unfair and a personal affront from somebody i do not know or wish to know. i have wasted enough space in responding to you and will refrain from responding henceforth. good luck and God Bless…
Hansal.
@KK – I can feel your angst. Criticizing and complaining about the quality of the film is your right. However, wouldn’t it be nice on your part to provide criticism/feedback in a more constructive manner than questioning someone’s talent?
Just expanding on your example of a restaurant. If the chef serves a bad dish and if you tell him in a polite manner that the dish was overcooked or had less salt or whatever, he will oblige and do the needful and maybe even serve you a dish on the house. But if you go all ballistic on him and question his talent, you will find your butt sliding across the sidewalk outside the restaurant.
This is an open forum that allows filmmakers and audiences to interact on a level that no other platform has provided. Please take advantage of it so that filmmakers, especially the small guys, provide you with better entertainment. Don’t go around throwing mud at them. Positivity is always welcome.
Hope to see more comments and criticism from you…on a positive note of course!
@ KK & FenderBender…
Both of u have valid points and are welcome 2 give your thoughts. But please keep your comments related to the main post! I think we are deviating from the main topic.
Thanks
@KK…I share your views that Hansal as a film maker has not fired after Chhal..but that does not prevent him from pursuing his career..He like all of us has the right to make good films in the future..talk about the sorry state of films made in India..like you and me..Lets not mix up two different things..If only successful filmmakers/people could speak out their opinion in public..this world would be a difficult place to live in…
on issue of biggies, many of the bollywood biggies are there undeservedly, I feel. Your opinion may differ..The sorry state of Indian cinema has one of its root causes lying in the oligopolic (acute) nature of the film economy in our country, a talent, unless he/she has the guts to remain independent, will have to suck up to these biggies, mend their ways and put aside their skill to dig deep their head into the shitpile, these biggies have created as body of work…What emerges will be nothing but a commercial caper, mostly with a Triangular or otherwise love story, Family drama, Intrendre laden comedy (if one could laugh), Blatant Ripoffs from Hollywood or other regional source- 80% of your films are done. In the rest 20% we have good movies made by biggies, Indie films etc..
Now, all are big stars into making nonsense, no they are not. Some of them are making good films, and some of them are only concentrating on making good money.
Regarding Hansal having an issue with Aamir or SRK leading the ‘forum’, its none of our business. He has every right express his opinion. I personally dont care, as long as anybody is working towards the betterment of films in our country.
These things aside you made a very interesting point..’At least in a commercial film, if the movie sucks, you might enjoy the music or the special effects or the action or something to that effect’ …Even though I dont get entertained by music, effects, even if the film sucks…I agree, commercial films do tend to have higher production value, due to the budget.
The whole lesson for a independent film maker from this is that, cinema need not only be good in terms of technicality and creative structure..but it should be effective enough to entertain the audience. An art Indian filmmakers fail (especially , independent) overlook when dealing with offbeat themes.
This is where Mani Ratnam, RGV, Dibankar, Anurag et al do enough paper work to make their work as entertaining as possible without compromosing much on the thematic content. Malayali and Bengali film makers were extremely adept in this technique, thats why we have loads of successful good movies from these places.
Audience also play a very important role though. We must start asking returns for every single paise of the ticket price. So all aspects of movie making should have minimum quality, so that we get entertained and enlightened (too heavy a word, but it OK) at the same time.
my kudos.
Tolling for the rebel, tolling for the rake
Tolling for the luckless, the abandoned an’ forsaked
Tolling for the outcast, burnin’ constantly at stake
An’ we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.
Well most of us here atleast seem to agree with the fact that small films ( provided they are good) need to get noticed and succeed at the box office too.Its like a cycle, the more the number of successful movies, the more the number of good smaller films that get made.If UTV is funding a lot of small films that is because of the success they’ve seen last year with an Aamir or a A Wednessday last year and even with Dev D this year.So if people like Shreyansh & Ram feel if that some kind of quali research into movie marketing might help, there’s no harm in checking it out.And yes the very fact that Hansal wants to do something in this perspective is evident and that’s why he’s discussing with us on the same over here.Its a shame that people here are questioning someone’s credentials to speak on the same.Lets definitely try to come up with whatever we can to look to support the small film movement.
Since you haven’t offered a solution I audaciously will offer one.
Start your own forum along with like minded people. Start training the young ones from now. You cannot control what the audience likes. It will evolve at its own pace. You can only control what you can do. Slipping down to their standard is not the way, raising your bar higher is the only option. Find your own ‘Prithvi’.
If you think I am talking out of my ass then I am sorry.
Interesting discussion.
I see every post of this discussion having something concrete to offer. Coming to the question of small intelligent films having to live up to their ‘intelligent’ tag more that 80% to be successful (like a Khosla Ka Ghosla), it makes it all the more pertinent for market research and test screenings for them to ensure their success as their need for success is more pressing than the crack pot biggie films which are collecting their share in the opening day media hypefest alone. So the idea ‘ Make small – intelligent filme’ but do the surveys and studies as well as the margin for error in your business is more than the mainstream mindless muddles that people call cinema in Bollywoodland. To sum up – due diligence has to be done for a small intelligent film as well- much like how corporates do it for a project or product launch.
This doesn’t however mandate the creator making a film dictated by other people’s opinions, but, just an accommodating gesture of coming down half way down the stairs while asking his/her audience to climb up to see his/her creation.
Another aspect is to introduce pre-sales of ticket at a discounted rate…Film release date should be announced for the independent films on the day of shoot, and tickets should be available at a discount on day 1 itself..Then PR planning for ensuring that the audience go and buy pre-tickets, or sell these coupons on IT company canteens, colleges etc. so that funds are raised for the movie and audience following is built. The coupon can have website details of the film..where the audience can read about..discuss the movie even before its released…That would give the opportunity for enthusiasts to spend less, and theatre/plex owners to be sure of some incentive to play such movies…You can call this loud, unstructured thinking with good intentions… :-)
Pre Sales of tickets at a discounted rates is fine, but not from Day 1 of Shoot.
People show an interest in the movie in 2 ways, either due to star or due to director. Now considering indie, small movies are not star centric, it has to be the director’s name that should pull in audiences. And with due respect, many of the indie directors still dont have that brand name appeal barring a few like AK to get the audiences interested from Day 1 itself.
What i feel is 1-2 weeks before the movie releases, build up the buzz, go for a presale. And for me these kind of discount coupons should be focussed mostly in campus, where you have the audience to watch, but who cant afford the exorbitant fees in Multiplexes.
As far as IT sector is considered, i dont think its necessary to invest much there. Most of the IT guys can afford to pay, and more importantly, its not that all the IT crowd is the out of box, radical thinking kind. Vast majority of them would prefer to see Dostana or Ghajini, given a choice.
I am a techie myself, and i remember our company sponsored a screening of Swades. 90% of the “brilliant, educated” minds felt bored, and started sniggering during the movie, calling it bakwaas.
One way i can suggest, some of the larger IT companies do have good theaters, where they show movies every last Friday or something like that. So yeah get together with such companies and see if we can arrange for a screening in the company work area. But again i feel this sector is not really worth concentrating on.
I was about to suggest to start selling even in prep-prod stage…thats the whole idea…Since it does not have any big stars…people have to discuss the relevance of the movie…get accustomed to it..then only they would try it out..Hence we need more time to impress the quality of these films on people…
About techies, spot on…intellengce and refined taste need not go hand in hand.. :-)..Most of them are looking for ‘Time Pass’ as if in office we do something else… :-) No offence meant to my fellows..just an observation…
Small films need more time to catch up…so the buzz needs to be built up long before the release..pre-screenings need to be done…to re-edit, reshoot and make it better (or worse :-) )
Then release it, admist fanfare that has been built up for many days together…
Colleges are the main target audience, agreed as we have budding minds open enough to take up new ideas..
Ram, since i take it ur from Kerala, why not make that territory as a starting point for experimenting what we r discussing.
from what i have observed, the best movie going audiences in India, come from Kerala. People who are genuinely passionate about movies and who are cinema literate.
So how about actually testing this concept there.
Ratnakar,Ram- yes Kerala is a good ground to test something like this.If some film maker ( like Hansal) is able to come forward and help us with a product ( film )this can certainly be tested.Not many people are aware that when it comes to Film Festivals, Kerala has been holding its head high- The annual Film Festivals in Trivandrum & Thrissur are reasonably popular.There is a Kerala Govt.body- Kerala Chalchitra Academy also there to support ( of course one needs to tackle the bureaucracy).So if Ram & anybody else is game to test this out, count me in too.
Yes, we can use Kerala colleges to conduct forums, discussions as well apart from trying out the ticket sales there…Lets plan it…
Motive1 :- Promote Indie movies
Motive2 :- Conduct Pre-Screenings among focus groups to improve end product quality
Motive3 :- Conduct Focus Group discussion and brain storming among different set of target audience to come out with new ideas on films (which can be converted into feature, or short films later).
Chalachitra Academy, Surya and several bodies are there…every small association has got film affiliation…all said and done the a large amount of audience is passionate about good cinema…We can try and tap it..
I am in Bangalore now, we can try bangalore colleges as well. We would get more PFC guys from here as well…Any Bangalorean wants to achieve above three motives and more? lets group together…
Hansal, any inputs..we need a test case :-) to start off. It may be one of your films, or someone elses, we would try and presell coupons, that can be redeemed against tickets, in Bangalore, Kerala, Bengal (Ratnakar, or any PFC Kolkata connections) for them…Some movie that gets released say six months or so from now
@ Ram- yes lets get it going.One can always analyse after one has made an attempt.So let the attempt be made first.Even Chennai is a good place to try it out.So yes now what’s needed is the test case/product & once that is confirmed we can start to work on the other things.
Guys,
I am getting a fixation with surveys…anyhow..here is one for signing up for the initiative.
Once we sign up I will pull up the names and details share it with all…
This sign up will be open for next one week, then we start off..
http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=tpxkuqmaikx40dy577459
The above link is not good…there are some problems with the survey..I will create a new one and post…
Here is the link,
http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HNILL_89877066
Interested guys, signup, and also let your freinds know..
We will group together by location and proceed further…
Shreyansh,Sethu,Ratnakar we have started off…
Hansal, let us know when you have something for us…
Hansal,
you have triggered something here. Hopefully, this can result in a concrete effort to change and understand this problem of creating a sustainable platform for small-budget films.
You say you simply want a fair deal and are willing to fight with the biggies on a level platform. But this does not sound right, it can never be a level playing field since you are starting with a fraction of the budget.
This is alternative cinema, that has an alternative audience and needs an alternative platform. I can see that there are so many in this chain who seem to be suggesting alternative models.
It would be great to help research and analyze and discuss these alternative models and arrive at something that we can try or test somehow.
I like Shreyansh’s thoughts and others that support similar ideas on this.
Lets start by defining alternative cinema. We can pick some metrics. Let us ensure we are able to identify the target audience for each such film. Lets say the goal is to break even for most of these films so that these directors can continue making such films. For breakeven, lets find out the number of tickets required to be sold. Lets compile a database through surveys or other such means of the potential audience in various markets or cities. Build a mechanism to reach out (market or inform)to this audience cost effectively. Commit to providing at least one place for screening in every place where there is a reasonably sized audience targetted by the film. BASES has a sales estimation model do forecast sales of new products, we could build such a model for alternative cinema. It is based on surveys.
For a 3 crore film, at Rs100 a ticket, we need to sell 300,000 tickets. In a country like India, it is hard to believe alternative cinema cannot this support. Lets do some math and find out if this is indeed true.
I sometimes ramble, may be this is one of those times but in a nutshell, lets work backwards from the goal of helping low budget films breakeven so that their makers continue to make films and improve their craft.
Power to all who want to attack this problem. I am happy to help. Just reach out if required.
This is the third post…with the new survey link..the earlier two mysteriously did not get posted…
Hope this one does…
http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HNILL_89877066
Interested PFC-ites please sign up, we can plan our work together to achieve the common goals
@ RAM V…
Sorry 4 the late replies.. i have signed in. Can all those who sign up, meet 4 an online chat some time soon?
@ DeepBlueLotus
Thanks. Ur suggestions too make interesting reading. Lets just make a group in the forum made by RAM and bounce off ideas.
@Hansal…
Kahan ho bhai?
@ Sethu 74
Thanks. It looks like a democratic scenario here. One set of people believing that however small, but they can make a differnce; while others stringly feel “nothing’s gonna change”
@ RAM V…
if we can add 1 more aspect in that survey link, regarding “in what aspect would you like to contribute in this forum”, it would be simpler for us to make some specific sub-groups.
Please do keep us updated. cheers!
@Shreyansh..if I modify the survey now..all data collected till date will be lost…may be we can collect the info you suggest once we get going…
For info of all 6 responses till date..I will upload details of all…on say 17th April..Those who would like to signup please do before that date…
@ Ram – 6 responses? :-)
@ Ram- I’ve signed up too.Do keep updating on the same either here or elsewhere.
Actually it might be better off to use a Yahoo or Google group for the same.
@Sethu…I acknowledge your signup…
I will also provide a periodic update..
Sure we can use a google group..once we get the total ‘in’ crowd..and send invitation to all those who signed up to join the group..
We can then work by location…
@ Ram – Good Job dude!
@Sethu – Welcome to the esteem club!:-)
Dear Hansal – Just read your post and with all due respect I must say I am not sure what it is you are asking.
If you are a businessman then your argument does not make sense. You call this “often alienated, very marginalized and perennially nascent independent cinema of this country” – do you wonder why that may be? Would content have anything to do with it? I am not generalizing but do you think that a vast majority of the indie films themselves are fairly average to begin with?If “Dev-D” was successful then do you think it may have to do with the fact that the money paying audience actually liked the film and the word-of-mouth buzz made it possible for the multiplex owners to show it on more screens as the weeks progressed and thus make profit for the enterprise?
Do you think they are to blame to be a little skeptical to promote an Anurag Kashyap film after “No Smoking”??
If you are an artist and only concerned about your art then commercial gains would not even be a consideration. Creative satisfaction ought to be all that matters. From your post above I don’t think that’s the case or we would not be having this discussion.
Again sir, with all due respect, I think its belittling of someone like you to suggest that indie filmmakers get a “hand out” for making films that are relatively lower budget and don’t have the means to market themselves like a CC2C or Delhi-6. Would you not agree that if the product is worthy then it would find itself a market and gain the exposure it truly deserves? If the audience did not show up for CC2C despite it being shown everywhere and came in large numbers for “Dev-D’ with its limited release then that ought to tell you a lot of how the system works.
Fight your own battles boss… don’t bother yourself about what the Aamir Khan’s and SRK’s and Karan Johar’s of the world say or do. They have created a brand name for themselves and have done it the hard way and let’s not belittle that because their cinema sensibilities don’t match yours. This is show-biz and let not pretend it’s something that its not! Everyone wants recognition in this medium and their moment of fame! So if our indie filmmakers focus on the one thing that matter most – quality of content – then they too will get that…
Cheers!
@ RAM V
do mail us the final list, Can u contact the author too?
I’ve signed up for the surveys too… do keep me updated…
I can be contacted on hansal.pfc@gmail.com
RGV’s next after AGYAAT & RANN is ‘RAKTA CHARITRA’…check out his blog…well, everyone is desperately fighting it here to make a film & that man is churning out films one after the other – hit or flop – doesnt matter! have to give it to him man! RGV FILM FACTORY JAI HO!!
RAM V….
waiting 4 ur LIST
8 people in total have signed up, I will keep the survey open till 17th April as mentioned earlier…more can sign up
I will drop an email with the list to each one of those who signed up till now.
Please check your mail after few minutes
Hansal, I will drop you a mail as well
I’ve often wondered how hansal mehta who gave us ‘dil pe mat le yaar’ could possibly come up with ‘ye kya ho raha hai’
@vishal
well it happens… and as much as i take pride in DPMLY, i also take full responsibility for YKHRH…
I guess this topic has been moved to another forum, but I was thinking on similar lines and realized that one of the vital factors behind the success of small-budget independent movies could be the reviews, and since the ta for such films is the educated urban english speaking middle class/upper middle class, the most significant would be the TOI review. I know people who decide on watching a movie based on the saturday page 2 of TOI, unfortunate but true, and i really dont know what to say about the credentials and quality of these reviewers. I remember the ‘no smoking’ review was an obnoxious personal attack on the director as an individual, not about the movie, because the reviewer couldn’t figure it out and took it as a personal affront on her ability, in my opinion. And these star ratings which TOI offers, however ridiculous they might appear to us, they do sway the audience significantly. I remember a movie like kabhi khushi… getting five stars and mangal pandey getting nil. As regards mangal pandey, I beleive the media all over the country colluded to get back at aamir khan because he’d made the statement to the effect that he doesn’t need the media. Otherwise how’d you explain that every single reviewer found it so terrible. i’m not trying to say it was great or something, but it was definitely not as bad as it was made out to be. However far-fetched this theory might sound, I’ve gone through plenty of MP reviews, and I have reason to beleive in it.
Hansal, just one qn:
U expect STRAIGHT to run in multiplexes and be appreciated by the movie going folks ??
STRAIGHT is the “independent cinema” which people here are talking abt ?
A movie ripped STRAIGHT out of a hollywood DVD ??
In hollywood they have different assembly lines – for action, romantic comedies, horror etc..
Independent cinema in India is a big joke.. the term itself is wrong and its continued usage proves to me tht the Karan Johar – Yash Chopra brigade as wellas this group of filmmakers most vocal in passionforcinema.com – both groups canot think anything other than hollywood.
When Rai, Adoor, Benegal, Govind Nihalani and many more like them were making their films, no one even talked abt Independent cinema.. In US they had to fight against the big studios and they called their cinema as Indie films..
lo, there is a grp now in India to make Indie films here.. and who finances them ? the same corporates and the same big banners… what a joke !!!!!! wht the hell is Indie in this ???
Now please dont tell me tht Anurag mde Dev D etc.. its a nice film.. As the first thing, please find another word to refer to them..
Rest of the discussion can happen after that…
@Rags,
Honestly, nobody can really predict the outcome of a film. Likes, dislikes are a subjective matter – the outcome of a relationship between the viewer and the film. Since STRAIGHT happens to be the target of your ire, let me tell you that for every DEV-D there will be five STRAIGHTs. Since you mention Rai, Adoor, Govind Nihalani, Benegal let me also mention that a lot of trash was made at that time too – this trash was passed off as ‘Neo-Realist’, ‘New -Wave’ and ‘Parallel Cinema’. Creative output is always such. The sad part is that a lot of stuff nowadays in the name of alternative cinema is actually a rip-off from some DVD or the other. It is a hazard which I believe will get rejected by the market/audiences just like boring nonsense that posed as parallel cinema in the past was. At least I hope so.
Coming to your objection to calling these films independent well I chose to call them so because of a variety of factors.
1. They offer an alternative to formula
2. They steer clear of the star system
3. They attempt to tell me a different story
4. They attempt a novel form
5. They cost a fraction of the regular mainstream cinema we are subjected to
You are welcome to coin an alternative term or name, its the spirit of the film that matters to me not its classification.
About corporates/studios financing/marketing these films it is a trend all over the world. You have Fox Searchlight, Paramount Vantage making such films. Unfortunately, alternate streams of finance/marketing have not yet emerged. Independent producers have perished because of their lack of resources, acumen and clout. Fortunately, there are ways of making these films with help from studios who have the clout, the money and sometimes the vision. So why argue over the classification of the film when at least the opportunity exists and there is a set of film-makers willing to utilize the opportunity? Why grudge the means when the end is at least partly achieved? Why bicker over a name? Why deny yourself the taste of many sweet mangoes because the taste of one rotten apple persists only in your mind?
hi hansal,
it is true that independent cinema needs more support from all and sundry.i think having a good cast will help. i dont mean necessarily big names but high quality actors.see a film with say naseer, paresh rawal, om puri,kk, abhay deol, irrfan, manoj bajpai etc. will definitely make people sit up and take notice. it may still not always work [eg. maharathi had an ideal ensemble cast] but people would take an extra effort to go and see or be keen for word of mouth reports.so i think if u r making even a small film there should be some noteworthy names.not only are earnest performances ensured but it also becomes a lubricant of kind enabling the whole process to run smoothly wrt increased interest and respect for the project.just my take-an opinion.regarding srk aamir stuff definitely the larger point was missed and bottomed out but again take heart from the age old adage “any publicity is good publicity” so who knows may be will help in long run.BTW r u onto some projects nowadays. do tell. i for one believe in your talent.and chhal n dpmly were truly something toreckon with.i also liked ur work in dus kahaniyan.keep going.
Just a thought mate. More than 2000 words poured out on whazz wrong with the industry but not a single thought on “if the films had the goods”?
Wasn’t Chal an inspiration from Donnie Brasco? Then there was this film in the American Pie ballpark (minus sex) and then DPMLY (which was kinda better of the lot).
I remember watching “Following” a long time ago (before memento was released). It was mindblowing. A decade later Nolan made “The Dark Knight”.
Let’s just say, if you got it.. it don’t matter if its bad slots or bad marketing. There still is something called “Word of Mouth” which prevails (remember Munnabhai 1?)
If you had it, Chhal or DPMLY would have been cult classics by now. Are they? Ahem!!
It took me a long time to figure what I do best.. guess it still ain’t late for ya!! Savvy?