Writers, Help
I have been contemplating, breaking by head against the wall..Asking everyone I believe in, narrating it…nothing seems to help..
Have you ever had a dream?
Imagine it’s early in the morning say about 5-6 AM and you are having a wonderful dream..everything is so perfect in it. you are a part of it, you belong there, it’s YOU and it’s your dream..and
Someone wakes you up or a sound that disturbs the dream and jolts you out of your sleep, out of your dream…the dream lies shattered…but you do have the gist of what the dream was about, you have the crux…and you try to go back to sleep and try to continue the dream…try extra hard..close your eyes tight and want to continue with the dream, want to start from where it had ended, because you want to finish it…what happens?
FOR ME I CANT!!!!!!
I have been having a recurring dream of some such sorts for days now…but, I am unable to finish it…the dream of a STORY…
I have an idea..I know it is damn fucking original..not tried before…I have the basic premise, i know how it could shape, but I have no clue how to continue it from the plot of an idea..I am not RGV..i cannot just go and shoot with an idea in mind..I need a script…
Am i suffering from a complex? No idea… I am a writer? No idea.. Can i write it? no idea..the only idea i have is the idea i have…
the idea is of questioning the religious beliefs…about Hinduism, about Bhagwat Geeta..about perceptions of what is wrong and what is right…i always loved Suyodhan from mahabharath…now which mother would name their kids Duryodhan and Dushashan? now come on…Duryodhan means Bad Yodha…was Duryodhan a bad Yodha? Why is history or mythology ” thoomph diya” on us? Why cant we have a better perspective..a better perspective is always about Karna…just because he was the child who had to suffer…suffer till his death…didnt Suyodhan? for christ’s sake he was a King’s son…he was better than a king…he was MAJESTIC…he was arrogant..who isnt? why shouldnt he be?
That was my idea…or is my idea…looked from a child’s perspective where ” Lord krishna” is the villian…
How could i go about building it..how??? would show that if the kid travels time and goes back in the mahabharatha’s era and writes mahabharatha instead of ved Vyaas..he would have depicted Suyodhan as hero and krishna as a villian, the Hindu rashtra or Hidu belief’s wouldnt have been the same…anurag says just write, Sriram sir says, take time off and write..i have done both..cant find a way to do so…am i writer? i do not know..can i write? i do not know…do i have a right to write…yesss… then why cant i?
This isnt a post, this is a question..wish i was at Sankalan…wish i could have interacted with all the great writers there…but i cant, i couldnt, so the question to all and the sundry…what would you do, when faced with such questions?
Does it matter if you start the story from somewhere in between and then go berserk on it..or do stories have to start from the start and end at the end in writing stage?
Writers…please help
Anurag Kashyap
Abhay Deol
Dibakar Banerjee
Hansal Mehta
Khalid Mohamed
Kundan Shah
Anish Kuruvilla
Jaideep Verma
Manish Gupta
Navdeep Singh
Bhavani Iyer
D. Santosh
Onir
Ashvin Kumar
Ramu Ramanathan
Sudhir Mishra
Pankaj Advani
Revathy
Saurabh Shukla
Shilpa Shukla
Sujoy Ghosh
Suparn Verma
Santosh Sivan
Shashank Ghosh
Shivajee
Pavan Kaul
Partho Sen-Gupta
Prroshant Naryannan
Sam Langoria
Satish Kasetty
OM…just start writing…do ten pages and another 10…it will be shite…but like Andy in Shawshank Redemption, you will have to crawl through shit to get to somewhere…
OM,
The first and foremost thing. Never discuss your ideas in public. NEVER.
The best way to come out of this is to write. Trust me, it is a kind of disease. Don’t let it spread within you and spoil you and thereby your idea. Though, easier said than done( I was working on some novel and my pen havent touched ink on that subject since half a year). But, no issues. Keep trying. Best wishes!
^^Rightly Said.
Also, it reminds me of Matt Damon. Having written the first 40 pages of goodwill hunting, he didn’t know where to go from there… But a few of his mentors said that it was a good script and he should go ahead with it.
He went and showed the script to his friend ben affleck and ben said, “I don’t know where to go from here either, but I will definitely write the script with you.”
After that they stayed together and as the cliche’s go… The Rest is History.
Writing is very personal OM. It is you. You can’t ask for help. That in a way is like killing your story. The process could be torturous but just go on. You will get the flow eventually. Thats what I feel.
And don’t discuss your story with others. Why are you doing that? Others can pool in with ideas but at the end of the day it will not work. So please just continue – Alone. Just you. All the best.
Hi Om,
This is something which inflicts every single writer. It’s pain, but it’s inescapable.
As a professional advertising writer, I write ad film scripts, radio scripts, press ads, hoardings, brochure, leaflets, stickers, AVs and a lot else on a daily basis. I HAVE to write and it NEEDS to be good; above a certain accetable level in any case. And I have been at it for more than 10 years now. But in spite of that, it took me a full one and a half years to close a certain loop in the film script that I was writing. So if you ask me, just be at it. You have to keep writing to empty your mind of the low grade ideas. Jot down every single thought somewhere; get it out of your system. Unless and until they come out and you are through with them, you won’t be pushed to the level where the good and the great ones start coming.
And as Tanul said, don’t discuss your ideas in public. Do it in only at a forum where collective writing is a norm and thus, everyone involved is credited – like television writing, advertising, even films in some cases. Otherwise, it can cause a lot of heartburn.
And the block is going to be there any case. Don’t worry, you’ll cross it. Everybody does.
“A writer is a person for whom writing is more difficult than it is for other people.”
- Thomas Mann
1) Find a writing partner who has more experience. Your partner can handle the structure while you flesh out the story.
2) Research diff literary devices as to how you can tell a story. I discovered one last night and can’t stop thinking bout it. It even won an Emmy for dramatic writing.
3) Since you are in Arizona peyote should be easy to find. :-)
saale. I can’t believe this. I just woke up with 2 story ideas from 2 dreams. and started writing them down(still doing), refreshed PFC and saw this.
happens with me sometimes. I can restart from where I left the dream. watch Michel Gondry interviews or read his stuff. You will get a detailed view of the same thing. I will write something on him soon. As of now, I would say just keep a small diary next to you and use it the first 5-10 mins when you wake up. kyunki it all goes after 5-10 mins.
Om, let the story idea bounce around in your mind for a week or so. Don’t put it on paper yet, if you do so you’ll find its been erased from your memory.
You’ll discover new plot points everyday, new character traits, as long as the story is up there its fluidity will remain.
When you feel you have a scriptable story, write a 4-5 pages synopsis. Then show it around to anyone you want to.
Your story idea sounds good. The Mahabharat and its characters can be tinkered around with. Think, Think and finally write. Just do it.
hey..
u r dream is kinda similar to a textbook lesson i studied in std 10th…
it was called” ” Mahabharat ki Ek Saanjh”
it gives Duryodhan’s perspective and gives quite well..
i think it was in the form of a play….
@Om,
Writing, you will do. Once premise is fixed it will come on its own. But major thing is why you wish to see the things from that angle(Re Sudhana Duryodhana). Is it for the sake of seeing things differently? Or do you feel that he should be given some mercy? as you think he is a soul who was exploited and perhaps wrongly exploited. Do you wish to write in his favour as you think he was a good soul but wrong was done to him or his parents and that made him bad?
Since ages both kind of writings have been available and writers have been analysing things from all the possible angles.
He could be named as Suyodhana but his Karma earned him name Duryodhana. He was born as Suyodhana but he died as Duryodhana. Hardly fault of other people. It was his own doing which earned him this name. Injustice was done to Bhishma but he did not fall for bad karmas.
thousands of years have given enough filteration to the events and story and characters and from no angle his doings can be said as justified.
His very basic foundation of thinking was negative. He always chosed wrong thinking and doing.
He did not select Karna as he felt a love for poor but he picked him up because he found a competent archer and brave man who could give tough competition to Arjuna.
We know all the mythology and historical things so no need to repeat them again but hardly we can find one occasion where Suyodhana or Duryodhana stood on the side of justice and which could be said as right and not only for dharma’s sake but for people’s sake.
He remained angry because he thought be a king was his birth right. It was against the spirit of Bharatvarsha. It was not his birth right. He was eldest among Kauravas and we know his name because his younger brothers followed him and perhaps one or few of them were more competent then him? Vikarna was one such Kaurav, who was more on side of justice and a king has to have a justified approach and this was abolsutely absent in case of Suyodhana. It does not matter how was his equation with Gandhari or Dhritrashtra or his brothers. Blood relations dont present a proper ground to judge a person. A Hitler can be very fond of his lover/wife. A Ravana can love his sons and brothers but its their doing to the rest of the world on which they will be judged.
and Psychologically also we have to admit that love of Gandhari, Dhritrashtra and Suyodhana’s bothers was weak because it could not keep him grounded.
Love and respect shown by Meghnath, Kumbhkarna etc to Ravana, did not make him understand to walk on right path.
This love and these relationships are immaterial. these fellows can assess each other but mass will not judge them on this basis. King has certain duty and to perform that duty he should have an approach and responsible attitude and respect toward the people and it was lost in all these cases. They did not care for humanity because their personal egos became so big that every other thing became small. They became blind.
This is cheap attitude when people try to degrade Gandhi by giving emphasis on His eldest son Harilal. For a writer it can be performance of his writing skill and why not all opponents of Gandhi will take it on their heads. But this is an individual case. why same did not happen to rest 3 sons of Gandhi? Why same authors who have tried to drag Gandhi down and have taken resort of Harilal’s case did not try to explore it further and why they did not apply theory on his rest of the children?
a real author has to look from all the angles. If he is selecting a narrow space then he has to mention it else its just a trial to get some kind of recognition by throwing stone on bigger names.
This is good to see things differently but this different outlook also demands a justified approach.
Suyodhana/Duryodhana hardly deserve any sympathy. Though we can understand psychological process through his life journey. That much importance such people, characters deserve but they can never replace heros.
Spiritually these people have been praised for whatever good things they had done.
Ravana samhita is still regarded at par with Bhrigusamhita in Indian astrology. Still we recite Shivtandavstrotam created by Ravana. We praise his profoundness. But humanity has never shied away to criticise his wrong doings and he was such a powerful king.
Humanity has not shied away to criticise Rama’s doings toward Sita in the last years. He did it for sake of his kingship but mass has been analysing it as his failure.
Nobody is spared in the long run. all people get deserving place.
If today we recall Suyodhana as Duryodhana then we know that his bad works were larger in size and more in quantity than his few good works.
By remembering him as Duryodhana also indicates that people want him to remain as Suyodhana. He could have. He had got many chances. all the profound and wise people of his time had given him many chances but he did not pay any attention to them and surrendered before Shakuni.
Hardly people’s mistake.
Om, there already exists a masterpiece poem in malayalam that narrates the Mahabharat from Duryodhan’s point of view. I cannot readily recall the name of the poem but ask a well read mallu and he might put you on the right track.
As a writer, and if you have read indian works seriously, our mythology does not strictly paint anyone as good or bad. Almost everyone is shades of grey. even krishna, at many places is pointed out as being clearly dishonest. Mahabharat praises duryodhan too for his many virtues.
In any case, there are many retelling of mahabharat from the various characters’ points of views. one of the highly regarded works is second turn by MT Vasudevan Nair which narrates the mahabharat from bhima’s view.
If you are keen and serious I would advice you to approach Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan in Mumbai and check with them about these works.
There is also a book – Palace of Illusions – that says the entire story from Draupadi’s point of view. It paints several characters in a totally different light … a good read.
In fact, what I like about the Mahabharata is a complex epic that is open to multiple interpretations. Most characters have shades of grey and different situations can be interpreted differently. Go ahead a write ..if you do publish, you have a reader here!
OM, you idea seem like Telugu film ” Dana Veera Soora Karna” The great NTR Acted as lord krishna, Karna and Duryodhan. here Karna and Duryodhan is hero and villian (cunning charcter – Lord krishna).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daana_Veera_Soora_Karna
better watch this movie it’s great.
dode i have been fighting wuth my friends that duryodhan has been shown in wrong light and krishna was real grey character whom people worship like god but he is always wrong
Wow..am touched by all the response and all of the positive and trying to help. Thank you all :-)
@ D&C..yes sir ten by ten..and yep you are also right that once you start writing everything falls in place..the toughest part is to start
@ Thanul Thakur… Thanks mate. But, believe me, what i have written is nothing compared to what i have in mind or rather think what i have in mind. What i have written here is akin to ” A boy a Girl meet and fall in love..untill”
@ Sameer..yeah i had heard that story of Matt too. :-)
@ Arthi.V I am not asking anybody to finish my story( on second thoughts that would be a great, ehehe)…it was acry for help from those wh might have gone through same and what might have done to overcome this disease…thanks though :-)
@Inca..that is sooo inspiring..thank you so much. On a similar note..my Meditation guru always used to tell me to just shut my eyes and keep chanting a word that he had given..all the thoughts and images and what not would keep coming in your brain..it is garbage let it come, dont try to fight with them..the mantra given is a way for you to keep focus on one thing, while let rest flow away..
@ Mitch thanks for the advice..i Love the first one :-).
What is Peyote?
@ Tushy…eehheheh..keep a small diary? hmm naaa…i will keep a small batli..hehe
@ Arun prakash..
See there we go..your pov is different from what others are saying..well again it depens on what suits oneself..for some reason i keep coming back to something that i already have in my mind and not move it forward…lets see..thanks :-)
@ Ashwin..Never read that :-)..well my story is inspired from ” Mahabharatha” eheheh
@ Ram and Kic…am sure there are many books which tell a story from Duryodhan’s pov…mine is not about glorifying of sympathizing about duryodhana…its just the start…it deals with what changes would we have had if….grr..i am not giving away the main plot…but, believe me..its not “just” about showing duryodhana as a hero. Thanks for the words guys…Ram and Kic..can you list all the books that you know which deals my idea? I would love to read them..e-books better
“MT Vasudevan Nair which narrates the mahabharat from bhima’s view.”
wow..that would be an awesome read… Ram..please check your mail in a few hours(if you have left the correct email address here) or send me a test mail cinemaismypassion(at)gmail(dot)com
@KKK…Yes i have seen DVSK..infact that was the first time i fell in love with karna and Duryodhana..and what terrific acting by NTR…for me, that THE BEST…i mean no on can come any close to how NTR depicted Duryodhana..superlative…btw the movie doesnt show Krishna as cunning…it is more of a naughty..but NTR’s acting took it to a different level all together..again even in that movie..we “sympathize” with Duryodhan and Karna…not turn them into heroes..
@ RK Saab…Its again a perspective..and no I am not saying what everyone else thought of duryodhan…I am not saying he was good or bad…it is just a context of a story from a kid’s( about 7-8) persoective..now if a kid that young, from some images or listening to talks from somewhere had to think…he would go wild and crazy in his imagination, cause he doesn’t have the pressure of society or being politically correct… also, believe me the story is not even about projecting duryodhan as a hero…it is about what if….someday I will send you a brief synopsis of the story…and also I might need your help ïŠ
Coming back…now, apart from the story…my personal views…
I think a lot of injustice was muted to suyodhan, and he reacted the way any normal person would have..yes he was an angry child, yes he was arrogant. But, when you have Bhishma and Drona proclaiming that Arjun is their favourite right from the early ages of kauravas and pandavas, that would psyche anybody…all throughout his life he was being compared and compared and compared, don’t you that effects the mentality of any individual? Plus, I feel he had the right to be the king hastinapur, which was again not given to him…
If you take off Yudishtir from pandavas, everyone else was as angry and arrogant as Suyodhan, so, how does that make suyodhan any bad?
About Karna, yes, maybe the motive was to find a warrior who could be on par with Arjuna or maybe not. Why cant we think that, he wanted to give justice to someone in hom he found immense talent and passion. Plus, even you know, how their friendship grew and how they would be willing to die for eachother.
Again Mahabharath is something written by someone, mass interpretitions are not out of sync bhai…and if we take off the taboo of seeing if from the evil’s perspective, their might be changes in perspective as well. Also in the war of Mahabharatha, every kaurava barring a few were killed my unfair manners..if you are gonna say Abhimanyu..Bhishma came first…drona, karma, jayadrath, duryodhan..everyone by unfair means..and we are supposed to believe, they had to die because of karma/dharma?
It would be a great discussion to have with you RK saab on this topic and believe me, I am very open and more than willing to listen to what your side is…and again, this is not what my story is…Always like you pov’s…if I a wrong..i will gladly accept ïŠ
Write, write, write and you shall finish it!
i believe writers need to just write.
Kubla Khan one of the greatest poems by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, was just a fragment..it was never consummated…still it is regarded as a masterpiece of Romantic period.
Sometimes even fragments are great. even if u do not reach the end in ur mind..just write.someday u will.
@Om (20),
While writing (10), I had 50% hope with me that something may push you to respond in an elaborative manner.
You (you in general terms for a person) have some subject and this subject may have several branches spread in all the directions and many things might have been written/said before also so when you start handling this subject afresh then you have to see if your writing will touch some untouched grounds or not or will it be interesting scenario or not.
You have a fiction in your mind and you should first write it down. I had written something to provoke you and you wrote a long comment and this is clear that your mind needs that challenge in that fictional area also to cross the border of inertia.
Perspective is right or wrong, it is a different thing in a fiction. First thing is to write it.
—–
Rest was in general terms. as will write more here.
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Duryodhana’s journey suggests how villains are generated out of negative thinking. Pandavas were also cheated by him and Shakuni but they did not turn in to villains. They did not attack his wife.
If sayings of Bhishma, Drona etc that Arjuna was their favourite child was injustice then this injustice should have affected rest 4 Pandavas and Vidur etc also who were growing up in same atmosphere. But a tree gets nature from its seed. Duryodhana had seeds and Shakuni helped him nurturing the thorny side of his existence.
Lets consider a simple case of The Burning Train.
Vinod Khanna, Vinod Mehra and Danny, all the three are Mechanical engineers and working on same post of design engineers and they all are working on same project. They all three submit their respective designs and being son of Cheif engineer Danny thinks that his design would get approval because he is the best. He is arrogant since childhood and though he has been raised along with VK and VM but he thinks he is superior to them. Vinod Khanna’s design is accepted and Vinod Mehra accepts it as a sportsman and becomes ready to work as a team to develop a new engine based on this design. Danny is frustrated because his mind thinks in negative terms and he becomes destructive.
Seeds of becoming a villain are in his very existence.
Lets consider 70s. Vinod Khanna, Shatrughan Sinha and Amitabh Bachchan all the three actors started their career almost at same time and they worked with each other in few blockbusters and Amitabh Bachchan got more fame in those films but that did not make Shatrughan Sinha and Vinod Khanna destructive. Time and again, They both have been accepting in public the merits of Amitabh Bachchan as an actor. Though fact remains that there are certain areas of acting where Vinod Khanna is more intense actor than Amitabh Bachchan but many things affect the life and luck and selection of films can not be ignored and above all people’s choice at a given time. Amitabh Bachchan is superior in many other areas of acting than his contemporaries.
—
Karna’s character is the most neglected in the Mahabharata but he has not been turned in to a villanous character. He is not doing any injustice. Rather he si dying knowing very well that he is on wrong side.
Arjuna etc also had egos but they were open minded and ready to listen to people who were wiser than them.
There is a scene in Mahabharata Yudha.
[ Krishna is Sarathi of Arjuna's rath and Arjuna and Karna are facing each other. Shalya is the sarathi of Karna and he is not happy with this decision and he is making sarcastic remarks against Karna. Arjuna leaves an arrow from his bow and it strikes the Karna's rath and moves it back several hundred steps. Karna asks Shalya to bring his rath ahead and then he leaves an arrow and it strikes the rath of Arjuna and moves it only three steps back.
Seeing this Krishna praises the strength and bravery of Karna and Arjuna feels jealous and he is unable to resist himself and he says, "Madhav, I sent Karna's rath several hundred steps back and you did not say anything and when Karna moves only three steps our rath then you praise him in so high words". Krishna smiles and says that Parth then you dont know the reality. Hanuman is sitting on the flag of your rath. Indra has kept his power in your rath and I myself is carrying the weight equal to all the three Lokas and even then this brave warrior Karna has moved our rath three steps back and I have to bow before this man. He has got such a negative man in the form of Shalya who will be the cause behind reducing the power of this brave man.]
There are chances in life when one can select the options of taking right or wrong path. and Duryodhana always selected wrong path. Wrong is done to everybody in the life but not all are turning in to villains.
Not all are becoming terrorists. They have seeds in their very existence and that is aggravated because they are unable to control the destructive feelings.
Duryodhana was made the King but he could not do justice.
Not that he was attacked personally. He had similar opportunity since childhood. He had learnt the art to fight with Gada from Balram, then the best Gada warrior.
He had got the opportunities to take support from Krishna and he selected his army and not his company.
He was given an opportunity to give five small villages so that Pandavas can live there but he denied. He was interested in removing the existence of Pandavas from the earth while they were ready to live along with him.
Anybody needs a great talent and deep knowledge of human psychology and human evolution to search justice in doings and thinking of Duryodhana.
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May be genetic engineering can help in this:).
as story suggests that Dhritrashtra’s mother closed her eyes when she was passing through the process of Niyog with Ved Vyas so she gave birth to a blind Dhritrashtra.
Dhritrashtra remained a frustrated blind man and no wonder if his children got some bad seeds.
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In any case Karna and Dyurodhana’s comparison suggests the difference between two personalities. One lived in most neglected state but did not turn in to a villain while second always lived in luxury and facilities but still became a villainous man.
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Perspectives are fine because even if one is watching from the air still chances are there that bottom will not be seen of an object unless its rested above a mirror.
OM, just write. Without bothering about beginning, middle ore end. Keep thrashing it and you will find that the beginning, middle and end will come to you naturally.
It’s a common problem with not only scriptwriters but writers of any kind but the best way to deal with it is not worry about how it looks on paper on the first draft itself.
Just write and it will all sort itself out.
All the best!!!
@Rk : i totally agree with the comprehensive replies given by u, great job man…
@Om : u can write the story from duryo/suyo-dhana’s perspective, but u can neither justify his actions nor glorify his deeds. at the most, u can generate some sympathy but i m not sure how many will actually sympathize with him.
anyways….keep writing and i m sure some door will open-up for u, sooner or later. good luck
Om, I know everyone’s said it, but it is true – you just need to get it on paper. If you are still sorting through the outline, just write an outline first. If you write better getting into the script, write pages of dialog, scene setting etc.
If you write better long form, do it with a pen and paper. If it is better on the computer, shut off the internet, mail, browser everything and just keep your writing window open.
We live in an age of bite-sized attention spans. We can’t read anything longer than blog post. We can’t write anything longer than a blog post. Everyone has ADD!
So, force yourself off the information stream of the internet, turn off your cell, the TV, everything. Tell yourself that you can only turn on any of the devices AFTER you write one page.
I think you’ll find that once you start writing, you get much more down than you expect.
Hope you try it
@OM
Peyote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote
Mushrooms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_mushroom
And Read STORY by Mackee.
@Fatema, Crazyrals..thank you very much will try
@Shripriya..that was gold, these are the small things that we dont pay heed to but are pure important..i will try what you have adviced. Thank You :-)
@RK Saab thanks a million for such a elaborate reply…
Yes bhai I do agree that when you start writing, it will branch out in different areas, but to your question of, has this matter been touched, has someone earlier worked..it is such a tough question to answer. There is soo much of literature, so many movies made and about to be made, that it is almost impossible to say that, if this matter has been touched. Off course, Sympathizing with Duryodhana has been touched, but, then again as I had said earlier, my story doesn’t have anything to do with Krishna turning out to be the villain, or how, and why is he the villain..it is about what if it had happened….bhai…please I cannot reveal anything more here, will send you a mail shortly and explain the premise.. And yes, thank you, your provocation has made me to write, and thanks a ton for that…as is the case with many and most, sometimes you have something in mind, then in a bloody-single mindedness one keps churning out..but, sometimes doesn’t realize the follies one is committing during this process, hence your reply was very essential to me ïŠ
Now coming to more fun stuff..Mahabharatha..
“. Pandavas were also cheated by him and Shakuni but they did not turn in to villains. They did not attack his wife.”
But they attacked his Kingdom, they attacked his brothers. For once I feel we should stop the talk about Karma and all that jazz to look at this situation in a different angle, if we take that out, everything boils down to property and ego…
About the saying of Bhishma and Drona about Arjuna..well it is not injustice, but, it does create a hatred in a child’s mind..as for other Pandavas..well they were his own brothers, just as you said yesterday about how we should not judge Duryodhana’s relationship with Gandhari or Dhritarastra, I guess we should also not judge other four pandavas relationship with Arjuna…Vidur? Bhai..Vidur was not trained along with kauravas and Pandavas..he was the son of that daasi and Ved Vyaas…he was foster brother of Dhritarastra and Pandu. Why will he feel injustice, infact Vidur was treated very well according to me…he was not a part of the lineage of other kings, but, he still was kept on a very high pedestal..
Yes I agree that the seed was from Shakuni, no questions asked..he was THE BAD guy. Then wouldn’t it have been better for the pandavas or Krishna to kill him rather than the whole clan of Kauravas? Plus, the upodesh that is given by Krishna Pandavas and Arjun in particular, well, why couldn’t he give it to Duryodhan? Why was he always side-lined and always said…something like “ iss ka kuch nahi ho sakta..yeh tho aise hi hain”
Dhritarashtra was born with a complex, to agony that gandhari followed him…Duryodhana was the only person who felt that he has to do something to mete out justice. Well if we see it from Kalyug’s perspective ad not from the Yug that Mahabharatha occurred, it is very skewed logic that Ambika closed her eyes on seeing Ved Vyaas and hence, Dhritarastra was born blind, there needs to be more logic there..
God I am going all tangent..coming back
RK Saab, about the logic of the best person succeeding as the king, am sorry, don’t agree, I don’t think that was law during those days, it was hereditary and not the best man. If that was the case, Vidur would have been an apt king. I will give you an example on why Duryodhana should have been the king
Pandu, was the king, though Dhritarastra was elder, but was blind, fair enough. You cannot have a blind king. No problem with that. But, pandu decides, he needs a break for how long? Well well..its indefinite. And goes to vanvaas, so, whom do they appoint the “acting” King? Dhritarastra, well fine, because Bhishma was assisting him. But, Bhishma was also assisting Pandu, because he was not a good King, Bhishma was always there for Hastinapur. So, when you don’t want a blind king to govern you, then why would want a blind person to rule you when your own king goes on a vacation for indefinite amount of time? This was not fair..not for hastinapur and definitely not fair for Dhritarastra. In todays world, it would constitute as giving Power of attorney( I don’t have much legal knowledge about it, but will try to see where it goes)..so, when Pandu gives the Power of Attorney to Dhritarashtra and goes on a vacation, but, doesn’t return as he is killed..well so, obviously all the rights are with Dhritarastra, right? So obviously Duryodhana should be the next King., right? But, no and here is where Bhishma and Krishna come into picture, cause they think( well ved vyas did), Duryodhan would turn out to be a bad emperor, so, lets start treating yudishtir for the king..who well..bets his all kingdom, all wealth, brothers and for christs sake even his or his brother’s wife…geez, I wouldn’t want such a king. But, well Ved Vyas did, and so happened mahabharatha…but, all what w ehave is sympathy towards yudhistir, well should shun him, not show sympathy. And why do you think Duryodhana would have been a bad king or not as good as Yudhistir, some examples please..plus Hastinapur never had a good emperor after Bharath or to some extent Shantanu..well yudisthir too didn’t turn out to be a good emperor, he left hastinapur soon to go to himalayas with all his brothers..after what period of time? That I have no clue about..it could be a long time, cause we see, during that time, Krishna was killed and Arjuna was captured by the gawli’s.
About the Karna’s analogy RK saab, I see it other way, he has governed more sympathy because he was a Kunti putra..Arjuna and Bhima and t some extent yudhistir as well gave a damn to him when he was a Suta-Putra. Oh yeah and karna was mighty..damn mighty, off couse I love the character of Karna. He is a definite grey in the whole Mahabharatha, because there is so much going on in his head that could be fiddled with. Ved Vyas best achievement in terms of characters were Karna and Bhishma. Two stupendous characters and both of them cannot be on talking terms..wow..the best story teller ever has to be Ved Vyas.
“Duryodhana was made the King but he could not do justice”
What didn’t he do. Their a time when even Bhishma was happy with the progress of Hastinapur, when pandavas were sent to vanvaas. But, Duryodhana was also always living in the constant fear that Pandavas would come back, and Bhishma would want to give away the kingdom to pandavas. This is were the hypocricy of Bhishma comes out. We will talk that later, in some other comment, I have already written such a huge comment..geeez..eheheh
@Om(29),
so its proved that if we have content in mind then we can write. we can atleast write in a go. Ofcourse constrcution of sentneces will not be right, grammar will not be right in this rapid action writing and it may look like gibberish but all the decoration of prose comes later by editing and refining and re-refining the language. Soul is inserted in very first writing and outer body and arrangement is done later. There is no alternative for writing than writing itself. If our mind is stimulated with ideas we will write.
Then ofcourse there are days when nothing works. No trick works. If mind is working then hands dont support and they feel physical depression. Some people overcome this inertia by writing itself. There comes a barrier like energy of activation curve where if we cross that peak, we are in to the writing mould and it happens several times that we slip back again to the lower level. What takes to that higher energy level varies from person to person.
So best way is to start writing. Perhaps it will not look convincing but then come back to it after few days or month/s and you may refine it later. Perhaps it will take a form of AKAVITA, (Poetry in prose form) but if words have soul then whatever is created will have some impact.
Having said that, its also true that Other’s discourses and advices on tricks hardly help.
So
Just do it.
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Sorry I typed wrong name. Please read it Vikarna (not Vidura).
Anyway now I will take different approach.
Even if Mahabharat was happened as we read through Ved Vyas’s writings, its possible for a writer to include or exclude material while creating a story.
Lets go for the hypothesis that Mahabharat is a written piece. A written piece is like a MODEL.
Writer has taken a story and he has created characters and his character development is following an approch decided by him.
A MODEL also means that few parameters are fixed and few are varied.
And we get end results and/but this whole process is a single entity when it comes to us. If we wish to take out or change any variable parameter then we will get different results. and a parameter may be so important that if you touch that then there is a danger that whole building of the model will be collapsed.
So Duryodhana’s character (or as a person) has come to us after following a full life journey.
and his every step is standing on the shoulder of his past step as it normally happens in real life.
In real life we often think and say that what if we had taken this route inspite of the old route which we took then Zindagi ka rukh kuch aur hota.
We are alive so we think that we could have changed direction of our lives if we had known certain things at a certain point of our life. But we know it can not happen because if we had taken that different route then we would have been a different person today.
So when a creator is changing something in a well known character and if we are assuming he is an alive person in a given time then this new step will make new changes in the people in his surrounding also.
So If Duryodhana is changed a bit then Yudhishthara, Drona, Shakuni, Karna, Arjuna, Bhsihma, Krishna etc will also be changed because now they are facing a different Duryodhana. We can’t do this that we change Duryodhana with some positive parameters but keep other alive people in his surrounding following same traits.
It will look fake and less effective because profound people like Bhishma and Krishna are able to decide and act spontaneously. They have surpassed that illusionary state. They know what they are doing. They are in aware state.
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Not to deviate your mind from what you are thinking because you have to write what you are thinking.
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What I meant to say in these long comments that Duryodhana we have been reading is creation of Ved Vyas and we can not see him differently than the vision of Ved Vyas. He has created him for a purpose.
If we see him differently then its a different Duryodhana and its more than welcome to be involved in the creation of different characters.
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When you will actually start writing and will enter in to the skin of Duryodhana and your mind will start thinking as per your character then you may come across many strange realisations.
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So just start the journey without considering any of these things we have discussed.
I will be happy if I could be of any help later when your writings are finished.
All the best.
RK saab,
You have made a very interesting point here about a model. My dad when I was younger used to say, he doesn’t know for sure if Mahabharatha really did happen or not, but all he said was, If it did happen it was glorious if it was a work of fiction, Ved Vyas is the God…so true, I still believe what he said.
So, hypothetically speaking, if we consider, it’s a work of fiction, come to think of it, Ved Vyaas was talking about Aero Planes, Missiles, Nuclear Missiles, Artificial Rains, Cloning, supernatural powers, geeez, that man had some imagination, to add to that, the concept of “amar”…never die, plus, die-when you wish, holy cow, how could a man imagine all such, there was just no limit for his imaginations. And ,my story is inspired from this process, of no limit for imagination. To make it seem more real and believable, instead of Ved Vyas it is a kid, who has no social pressures or doesn’t know a word called Taboo. You have helped me immensely in this journey Rk saab, thanks. Atlast I have startes writing something yesterday, wrote about two pages, of what the story would be, and what do I want from it…will start the exercise whole-heartedly…thanks..
But coming back to our argument on Duryodhana( I am liking all this talk, because for the first time, I am getting a response which is not angry..eehehe)..well as you said if we change duryodhana we will have to change Krishna and Bhishma and all..but, we are not changing anything here, we are just taking out the concept of Karna and seeing Duryodhana in a different light, everything else will fall in place. Love Ved Vyas, how could he create such characters, no one is perfect, no one is real bad, everyone has a story to tell, everyone has a past, everyone is dealing their unsure present….god, love..ok
I am doing a post on Ved Vyas soon…eheheh
@Om,
Support of Archaeology is there in favour of Mahabharat era’s structures which are now in most pathetic ruined state because of lack of awareness among common people and lack of interest among govt. officials.
One can see many ruined structures in Hastinapur and other areas of Western UP and many places in Uttranchal and Haryana and even in Delhi.
India is one of the richest countries as far as this heritage is concerned but it lacks in preservation and marketing. Country is sitting on gold but not able to enjoy its richness.
Public was more caring and civilized till some 20 years ago because then I saw Gandhari’s small fort type bathing place and people treated it as some precious ancient thing. and now in last 20 years people have taken out even the bricks and encroachment has been wonderful in last 2 decades.
European countries have preserved their historical facts as such and if something was destructed by attackers then its mentioned as such and whole history is mentioned there but Indian history has been moulded to great extent by vested interestes who have been infecting science of history also.
carbon dating of many buildings of India can set their years of construction in the era even before Christ’s birth or alexander’s attack on india but modern situations have become so complex that archaeological and historical facts are not given true format and their repairing during middle ages have been treated as their years of constrcution because court historians of middle age rulers have counted in this manner and its natural because this was necessary to glorify their masters.
Situation is so complex that people dont take history as history and start imposing it on present circumstances and attacker then does not remain attacker but ancestor of some people.
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Imagination has a limitation. Cave man in stone age might have been able to imagine about flying because birds were flying in sky before his eyes and he was able to imagine about wings or a machine having wings but he certainly was not able to imagine about mutation and cloning like things. These things come in to mind with subsequent evolution so if these things were not in fashion then it was impossible for Ved Vyas to imagine about them.
There is a art side type of imagination and there is a scientific type of imagination.
Its mentioned that Gandhari had sliped and that accident harmed her pregnancy and Ved Vyas took her embryo and divided it in to 100 parts and kept in kalashas and performed yagya and later these kalashas gave birth to 100 boys who we know as kauravas.
Most probably it was case of artificial insemination as we see it today that in most of such cases when women take help of science to get a child then in more than 90% cases they give birth to multiple number of children because doctors can not control it. If only one sperm is kept in the reproductive tract of a woman then chances are very les or nill to attain pregnancy.
and Vyas’s attempt was done outside so perhaps test tube babies.
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when we meet sometime we will talk about other proofs (not archaeological) of Mahbharat and Ramayana era.
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On Duryodhana part, Its just a slip that I have to bear loss of a long comment on it. I typed directly and when clicked submit comment net connection showed error and when refreshed it, typed content was not there.
But just to continue it.
I do feel that we are standing at a distance from the characters and hence all these things. Do we see any analogy in todays life around us?
If yes then please try to impose everything on those things and then think what do you think now.
I should write a post on Mahabharat material, may be through Shyam Benegal’s Kalyug.
In post things become more streamlined.
RK Saab, not very sure about archeological findings, because many of them just try to quench their own political thirst. Just like a few years back when the Shiv Sena Paper Saamna, had published that Taj Mahal was not built by Shah Jahan, but i was supposed to be Tej Mahal or some and said, the marbles used arent even of during the time frame when Shah Jahan was supposed to be the ruler.. I am not denying either of them, just cause i have no first hand knowledge, and then how would i have first hand knowledge, when history ets distorted by anybody and everybody every few years…
Plus History was such a pain in schooling days…wish we had better ways to teach history rather than asking the students to mug-up all the dates…
I would love to see your article on kalyug..waiting :-)
The analogy of caveman is very interesting..another twist could be, we dont know what his imainations were, only way we would is through his carvings on the stone..and we have evolved so much now, that, we see the real picture, but, we maynot understand what his carvings meant..
I was having this conversation with oz, i think about a year or two back..about, if a person is trapped in a room for manny manny year( ohh yeah now remember, it was during the release of the movie Alag!!) would his imaginations and the world view be different and more radical than of a person who is seeing the day to day life? The person who is out there, can ientify with certain things..but one who hasnt, he has no limits of what things could be and where he wants to take it….i liked that discussion, and just like every, there was no conclusion :-)
RK Bhai…i know how Golconda fort is being treated now..though they had renewed it a few years ago..but now, it has become kinda of a hub for selling drugs and all…also the Salar-Jung Musueum in Hyd..i bet you, not many people born and raised in Hyd have seen it, unless they have out of state relatives coming over and insisting them on visiting it…its like Ghar ki Mrgi…
@Om,
I dont know about Samna, but perhaps they published article based on Books written by Historian PN Oak and even if we can not agree to everything he mentions he is not entirely wrong either. Established Historians have always tried to ignore issues raised by him. This is not a way to treat history either.
There are several issues related with medieval history and many issues which a general watcher can see with his eyes in to the buildings like TajMahal and Red Fort. Clean chit can not be given to these buildings. But these issues should be left with historians and these issues are not to make mass movements as some political parties try to do. Its a common thing and quite easy to accept that when foreign powers attack a country and establish their rule then so many religious places and important buildings are captured and converted in to the places of their uses.
In every country in every era it has happened.
Its part of history. Like Somnath temple was reconstructed and renovated and brought in to Hindu ways by Sardar Patel is also part of history.
It does not matter to me today why someone did same to Taj Mahal 500-550 years ago as its new name is Taj Mahal and presently its famous as Taj Mahal but historical inverstigations can be done to search whether it was Tajomahalaya or not and when it was converted in to Taj Mahal.
Smallest things Mughal rulers used to record and used to keep whatever changes they brought in the administration but no record related with the construction of TajMahal is preserved?
There are many loopholes in these things and medieval history.
Mumbai was Bombay till some years ago and perhaps before Bombay it was Mumbai, so these are changes happen over the time depending on the people who are in power.
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Cave man’s paintings etc. We can not decipher everything they have created and this again proves the limitation in the imagination power of the man. We can go back to a certain stage only. Till we find a uninttrupted link we can understand the things and beyond that we are helpless because our present knowledge has no link with that past.
Same was true with ancient people also. What was possible only in an era they could imagine only that much.
There has been an understanding in spiritual side of india that Vyas, Bhardwaj etc are titles devoted to whole lineage and certain people who got certain kind of skills in different areas were addressed by these respected titles and thats why Bhardwaj is found in Ramayana period as well as in Mahabharat time also.
Something like alumnuses of MIT or our own IITs. They have a brand today. In older times brand names were Bhardwaj, Vyas, Sandeepni, Vasishtha etc depending on their area of specialisation. There are mentions that Bhardwaj’s lineage was more in to Missiles etc. Bramastra is credited to this lineage.
We can not prove it today.
But we can not ignore the fact that science and especially Physics is touching something in philosophical terms the same messages which are quoted in Upanishads etc.
That indicates that they are left over things of a very civilized and developed era and what we have got are things collected in the form of hints.
Civilizations are destroyed again and again once they reach to certain heights. Modern man and science also accept it.
Open minded Astro physicist like K(C)arl Sagon used to admit merits in ancient things.
Perhaps in our life time only (If we are saved from the damage done by uncontrolled development and experimentations which are beyond our capacities and nuclear war) we will see many such things.
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A person living inside a room for years may face cultural shock but it depends on his individual capacity also. if he is not exposed to anything from outside and he has got control over his emotions and he is in to the meditation etc then he can come out a calm man who has become a sage and nothing will matter to him as he will get spontaneity to respond to the new changes as per the need.
If he is exposed to books and can see outside world via TV then also his personality may have some differences with other people (like Natasha Kampush case, who was kept so many years in cellar, or daughter of Fritz and her children for 19-20 years).
Afterall people with orientation towards sprituality have been going away from world in to seclusion for years and this does not affect them much Because they have command over their brain and mind which have got understanding that he is here to attain something.
It may happen if a person left Delhi in 1994 or he was closed in a room and when he was released in 2005, 10 years later, then he can be astonished to see cell phones but it wont be a huge shock.
If you recall there was a story shown BR CHopra’s TV serial Khazana where Sachin accepts that he would spend 20 years in a room and he would not meet anyone but whatever he would demand would be given to him and if he spends 20 years like this he would be given a huge sum of money. He thinks its nothing before the amount of money and he becomes ready and initially he is frustrated and thinks he would go mad but slowly he start reading religious scriptures to get mental pieace and when he is taken out after 20 years he is not in need of any money and he goes away as a peaceful man.
Inherent nature should affect this thing also. Most of the psycho maniacal criminals live in solitude.
and sages also prefer solitude.
It depends which way mind of a person is functioning and how much awareness he has at a given time about life, doing and results and goal.