YashRaj, Karan Johar, SRK, SLB, Aamir, Salman, etc ZINDABAD!!!
This post is sponsored byI haven’t written a blog in sometime because I haven’t felt like saying something.
But something has been gnawing inside me all this time.
I think it all erupted when someone wrote a piece on KANK and the comments that followed were going right down to discuss the filmmaker’s sexuality. Just because we have a mouth doesn’t mean we have to shit every time we open it. PFC was meant to be a forum to discuss our passion of cinema, as diverse as our tastes maybe.
This was supposed to be a place where a David Dhawan fan has as much place as a Ray bhakt.
When did we get so clannish?
All through the last several months, be it on comments or inside the PFC club a recurrent bitching session goes on about Yash Raj. Karan Johar, SRK, Aamir, Salman, Bhansali, or relatively new directors like Farah Khan, Sajid Khan or the funny man David Dhawan or any ‘popular commercial’ filmmaker or actor of their ilk.
Well my friends I have news for you and I say this in capital letters.
THE FILM INDUSTRY SURVIVES AND EXISTS ON THE NAMES ABOVE AND OTHERS LIKE THEM!
AND THE REASON a film like Black Friday, Johnny Gaddar, MSFU, Makdee, Maqbool, Quick Gun Murugun, aisa Bhi Hota Hai Part 2, Chhal, Mithiya, Hazaroon K A, or any niche cinema for that matter can be made is because the very names that are maligned everyday, by us the so called keepers of the conscience of intelligent cinema, keep making the films that they make. Their profits create a buffer in the market to absorb niche films which don’t work at the box office.
It is commercial cinema which creates enough profit for a theater/multiplex/distributor/exhibitor/ and finally the producer to survive.
A film industry is not just actors, directors and producers or a handful of technicians.
It is thousands of character actors, junior artistes, dancers, thousands of daily wage workers who are not just lightmen but carpenters, van guys, dressmen, make up men, spotboys, there are industries within industries which keep working on multiple films.
They work on the basic principle on which once upon a time individual producers functioned. Its called – rolling!
The producer would take money from the market on interest, the lender would cut the interest and then give the remaining money to be paid against release whatever the result. The negative would be held as lien. To ensure himself against losses if the film flops and reassure his distributors that they cannot lose he would also announce another film, the money would keep rolling, incase distributor lost on this film, the producer would make up on the next one.
The world over actors and filmmakers make commercial films alongside those few subjects that are close to them.
And this is true of cinema all over the world where a director like Steven Soderbergh makes a Solaris and also makes the Oceans franchise like wise for actors like George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Tobey Macguire Halley Berry etc.
So do our actors.
Imagine Chak De without Shah Rukh Khan or Lagaan without Aamir Khan. The films would have been monumental disasters no matter how good the films would have been.
Anyone who says David Dhawan cannot make a serious film needs his head checked, only thing is Mr Dhawan is trapped in his own success even if he wants to he cannot get out off it.
However many filmmakers counter that by producing films that they would not be able to direct, Yash Raj is doing it, White Feathers has three arthouse films lined up, UTV has started SpotBoy.
But they all do it because of the success of a Dhoom, Fanaa, Shootout, Rang De.
Walt Disney is a family studio, yet it has divisions like Touchstone and Buena Vista each making different genres of film with different target audiences.
Miramax the baap of award winning cinema is also owned by Disney!
Abroad or specifically Hollywood the media and the cinema going public tend to glorify and create myths around their filmmakers be it indie or commercial, a Michael Bay and PT Anderson can be on the same stage.
Out here we tend to celebrate them after they are dead.
Manmohan Desai was laughed at and his success was always given to him grudgingly in his lifetime but today he is called a cult director.
We have failed to look at the genius of the films Mehmood made as a producer or director.
We killed a Guru Dutt today we celebrate him.
Critics and audiences look back at Mukul Anand with a rose tinted fondness, but where was that look when he was alive?
R D Burman died unsure of his work in 1942 A love story, we celebrate him after he is dead!
Govinda is one of the awesomest actors we have and we nearly threw him out off the industry. Besides comedy if anyone doubts his histrionic abilities watch a film called Zulm Ki Hukumut, a Godfather remake, with a B grade title, but a great watch.
Time has shown us that the world over we love to celebrate the tragedy and downfall of icons and then glorify them after they are gone.
But fuck that!
Let us look at the scene today.
Today a majority of the members of PFC represent the underdogs of Hindi cinema, which is a great thing, never has there ever been such support for the niche filmmakers. But why do it by creating a Us Vs Them scenario?
Kunal Kohli wrote the Mid-day review of Black Friday giving it five stars. Remember he is a commercial filmmaker who has no qualms about saying he loved Black Friday.
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
Will anyone here say that Main Hoon Na was a total masala entertainer?
Will anyone here say that Hey Babyy was a total fanboy comedy?
Will anyone here say they saw Dhamaal and laughed?
Will anyone here say they enjoyed Hum Tum?
Why don’t we come out and say that?
I feel people here these days are almost ashamed or embarrassed or feel guilty to admit that they enjoy commercial films.
I don’t care what Karan Johar’s sexuality is and it is no ones business.
We wanna discuss his films, lets do that, but what gives us the right to get personal?
If Pedro Almodovar makes a bad film should audiences say that he is gay so he made a bad film?
We can bitch about Sanjay Leela Bhansali all we want, on whether Saanwariya’s script is taken from White Nights or based on the Visconti film Le Notti Bianche, or that Black was a remake of Miracle Worker.
But Bhansali’s awesome vision is what will be represented to the world arena where they have been awed by Chinese spectacles, will now see a magnificent vision of an Indian.
We should be cheering him out here, but all we have been whispering about is about its origin.
Watch Le Notti Bianche and then see Sawaraiyaa, who cares if the stories are the same, I wanna first just ‘see’ the film, ‘hear’ the film besides the story.
A film is an experience.
I saw Satyricon and was awed by the visuals and the blocks but couldn’t make head or tails of the story, ditto for Juliet of the Spirits.
I met Shekhar Kapur a week later and interviewed him on Bandit Queen (my first ever interview) and we got talking. I told him I loved and enjoyed Fellini’s other works but Satyricon especially went over my head.
He smiled and murmured a movie is not just a story, you need to experience it, it is also n audio visual medium, look at what the director is trying to do.
Anand was a remake of Japanese film (Ikiru, correct me if I’m wrong), but knowing that does it make you like it any less?
Hrishikesh Mukherjee had his own take on it.
I wanna sum up by just saying that making a film for anyone no matter how successful they are is a tough job.
But to make a film that appeals to this entire nation made up of so many different states, cultures, languages and tastes and the NRI’s, is a whole different ball game.
Commercial cinema the world over is the bread winner of the family, it is the child that doesn’t go to school so that the younger one can.
In the end Indian cinema is known in the world to cinema lovers by the names of, Amitabh Bachchan and Shah Rukh Khan and to serious lovers who have seen Satyajit Ray.
As I walked in the Khan e Khalili market in Cairo, after realizing I’m not an local they would scream ‘Indian…..I know Amitabh Bachchan….Shah Rukh Khan…..how may I take your money?’
Today PFC is a movement, not a bunch of guys with a fixed notion of what cinema should be like. So lets move and make space for lovers of all types of cinema. Let a Govinda fan put his arm around a Pankaj Kapur fan and hang out and have a cutting.
We already have enough divides and biases in the real world.
At least keep them out off the movies
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206 Responses to “YashRaj, Karan Johar, SRK, SLB, Aamir, Salman, etc ZINDABAD!!!”
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Baal khade ho gaye (Hinglish: Hair standing out)… thanks for saying it crystal clearly of what I most un-transparently try to say here…
Indeed Suparn ji,
but there are hundreds and thousands of forums dedicated to Shahrukh khan.. definitely a few for KJ.. but for serious cinema you cant think of many. honestly.. you got Sudheer ji, Hansal ji, Onir, Anurag on this forum.. they all (like you) share there passion for films here.. but have to see any david dhawan, kj to share the passion here.. I believe a few of the genre you mentioned tried but only to exploit PFC as a market not to share the passion of film making.. Pansari to pansari hi rahega.. uske liye ghat.jod pahle hai cinema baad me
My 2 Paisa’s
Pavan, excellent… you are in form today
but I completely agree that people should not cross a limit.. specifically about personal life of anyone.. whoever or whatever he or she is
and yes a serious cinema viewer like many of us can not forget manthan on one hand and zulm ki hukumat (late bharat rangachary) on the other
the other thing to point out and “EDUCATE” anyone who may misunderstand is : PFC is a platform that anyone can use… it does not necessarily mean that if One Commenter Talked trash (like in the example) – then it was PFC that was talking trash. NO… that’s the difference between the traditional forms of reads (print, mags etc) and Online forums, Blogs and such. … (and I’m not talking about you Suparn)
Oz,
Zinda hoon main (pun intended.. relieved from a hell of a project today.. lost it but won the peace of mind and a little time)
Zulm ki Hukumat was one of the best Godfather copies in Hindi Cinema so far… even better than RGV’s. In fact the “Sadhu” in RGV’s movie is a directly lift from the Sadhu in Zulm ki Hukumat which was played by Paresh Rawal
:d/ i laugh at david dhawans jokes ..
i clap when kajol runs into srks arms
( i shed tears when devdas dies
and now i clap again reading this post..
its like some one has switched off the steaming pressure cocker…
i used to read all the posts here religiously…
and kind of felt sick reading the recent post and comments
it was like as if we(fans of pfc) were getting sucked into the ” intolerant,high level thinking ,egoistic critics frame of mind who have bergman for breakfast and polanski for lunch..
read the recent posts and you will be made to feel the best filmakers in the world are the makers of johnny gadar,no smoking,manorama..etc..
no offence in promoting indie or off beat films ,infact it should be promoted ,but lets not bull shit the rest of them…
just because we know a little about the classics films and a few brainy film jargon ,doesnot make us the torch bearers of cinema..
and lets not forget… the children and elders in my colony would pay and watch “hey baby ” and “dhamaal” again ,even if offered them a free lunch and a free screening of a adoor or polanski movie..
and thats a fact we cannot deny or turn a blind eye too..
so lets not turn pfc into x,y,z ’s fanclub
and a place to bitch about people,but rather appreciate and discuss cinema…
and to sum up ,i qoute my mother
” fools blabber,wise men use words wisely”
and suparn verma… u are wise indeed.
On first viewing, I did not get Main Hoon Na, came out criticizing.
On second viewing, just loved it for its masala and undercurrent of humor.
Now, I am anxiously waiting for Om Shanti Om.
So .. Suparn – super eye-opening post.
Let the debate begin. Tan-ta-tan
I never quite understood why people bash Main Hoon Naa. I thought the movie rocked. The music was superb, it was a well polished and taut product with absolutely no pretentions. It was a loud and proud masala film. Definitely looking forward to Om Shanti Om. Give me Farah Khan’s masala over Bhansali’s eye candy any day.
I agree with OZ, there was a time, probably jsut prior to the only time I have actually met Oz in Orange County in July, when I felt, PFC was going the “underdogs” way, but as a firm supporter of commercial (not in my world synonamous with SRK and AB) cinema, I have never been prevented from expressing that “contrarian” view in PFC, so think that while PFC may have a slight slant, it does not “kill” or “curb” the commercial and pro Karan and Yash Raj view. Now I don’t believe it restricts any view, good, bad, ugly or BOUNCED CHECKS
Suparn, thank you so much for writing this blog.I discovered PFC a few months ago and was always dismayed that any type of commercial cinema was always put down especially by people that had not even seen the movies they were putting down. A lot of the comments seemed to be from posters trying to impress the Indie Filmmakers that are on this site and it would always piss me off. I live in the US and discovered the masala films a few years ago and loved them. A Karan Johar film will lift my spirits. I’m still watching the HEYY BABYY title song over and over being amazed at Farah Khan’s elegant dance movements and poses that are edited in perfect time to the music while the camera glides across the stage and seeing all the special appearances by the beautiful Bollywood actresses strutting their stuff. This to me is considered as much Art as an Indie Film….there’s room for both.
huge industry but full of mediocre people. Actors – aamir, anil kapoor, govinda; Directors – Raj santoshi,karan johar, yash chopra; Only these 5 people guarantee quality. Rest all are hollywood dvd chors and everyone plays chor chor mausere bhai.
Lasts 3 movies seen -blood diamond, panic room, end of an affair. Anyone who wants quality and bang for buck – watch only 3-4 bollywood movies per year unless something path breaking comes from someone and enjoy the best quality that hollywood offers.
Providing an alternate platform to discuss films is fine. But how would you separate out passion and promotion? Isn’t putting up a competetion for poster design, “promotion”?
A KJ or Adiya Chopra may make a conscious decision about the kind of films that they will make because of the money that is involved. You and I might not agree with that – the reason being those films are not “good” by our subjective inclinations. But obviously, we are in the minority.
By the same token, every so called alternate movie may not be good. Infact, most of them are not good except for a Black Friday or a … what else in the recent past? In the name of “passion”, promoting these so called alternate crap is also not very exciting to me. Especially when people resort to personal attacks and call people names when they express their honest opinion on the so called alternate cinema.
Finally, the reality is that every movie is business. And, there are only two kinds of films – good films and bad films.
I totally agree with ur point that one cannot comment abt personal life of any filmmaker…i somewhat disagree with the whole hearted support 4 commercial cinema…
i think there r only two type of movies, good n bad…i saw making of lagaan n saw the real passion 4 cinema…some big banners just copy…songs r there becos of commercial value…sometimes the show off of opulence distracts the movie plot which irritates me…
otherwise only money is the king…Any mithun b-grade movie will be equal to Sivaji minus money minus good looking heroin minus a r rahman
Hey hey hey .. Mithun and Rajni are the ‘God’s of cinema. If anybody can pass off ridiculous scenes and stories as sensible, they can and if that is not acting .. what is ?
Just kidding guys .. :d
Mithun and Rajni are a separate thingy. Theirs is not cinema, not acting .. something else. Maybe we need to have a new name for these phenomena.
I guess that since I’m not Indian that’s why I love the Indian films so much. It’s something completely new and different for me and my friends. I’m not saying I love every Indian film, especially these days when the quality is not always there. What attracted me most was the cinematography(that constantly moving camera) during the musical numbers. When the music,sets,costumes and choreography meld perfectly the visuals can sometimes be spectacular and that’s what I love about it. We in the US are not used to seeing that and believe it or not watching these movies made me more open and accepting of the Indian culture of which I knew nothing about until viewing these films…..and I’m sure someone on here will say those films are not indicative of the Indian culture, but I’m smart enough to know people aren’t dancing on top of monuments and singing on the mountain tops.
Watching the Bollywood films also led me to the South Indian Tamil and Telugu movies, which sometimes are far ahead in technical aspects more than the Bollywood films. The camerawork in some of the South Indian films are very imaginative and they seem to have more original storylines.
So what’s the big deal about it? If the songs are there for commercial purposes, so what? Sometimes the only thing the movie will have going for it is the songs and if it wasn’t for that bad movie with the good song we might have missed out hearing that song.
shifas bin, suparn.. well the entire media, the press and the world is a forum for YRF and KJ and SLB.. this i don’t think is a site called passion for business of cinema or a trade guide..
you do make valid points here in this post but we discuss films here which are not discussed or given the due importance anywhere else.. and shifas if you don’t like the films discussed here give yourself a break and stop torturing yourself by dropping in here.. why be masochistic..
when YRF makes chak de..everyone loves it here..yes i agree no one should get personal.. but i don’t think PFC ever was anti anyone.. it is just pro cinema.. if saanwariya turns out to be great, everyone will applaud.. infact there is a question posted on top right asking which film you want to watch and it says saanwariya or OSO and not No smoking or jab we met..
and the fact is the money that YRF makes doesnot flow back into the industry..
when a change is sought that is when it might happen.. what is wrong with good cinema if it can bring in money.. it will happen slowly.. these films will be discovered slowly.. these are not boring pretentious art cinema..
and NOVADZ PFC is probably one site that does not go with the popular opinion, but there are million others who are saying exactly what you want to hear.. so if you disagree state your disagreement.. don’t be dismayed..
and novadz you make my fear come true.. bollywood is not indian culture, watchin bollywood films definitely is..
“Commercial cinema … is the child that doesn
“and the fact is the money that YRF makes doesnot flow back into the industry..
“..
Anurag,They have been making films left, right and center which means money is getting back right into the industry. I did not get your point. Can you please explain?
Good article Suparn. But lets not get too precious about the KJs, salmans etc. As Pawan said there already exist enough patrons singing the paeans of the said above.What India needs is awareness of other possibilities in filmmaking other than the commercial kitch dished out to the unsuspecting public.
Granted the commercial aspect keeps the industry “rolling”, providing jobs and opportunities. But good films come out of places like Iran where there exists no film industry to talk about, films which stand head and shoulders above the alternate films Indians offer.
I don’t think exploring different angles of a work including the sexual subtexts or hidden erotic fantasies should be taboo. Atleast it can lead to interesting discussions unless ofcourse the forum gods consider suggesting someone is homosexual is as objectionable as suggesting someone is heterosexual.
my 2 paisa
Suparn,
Well said….
On the last night of my fifth semester exams…
I watched Ek khiladi Ek haseena and Main,Meri Patni aur Woh…back to back…
After watching EKEH, i said brave and intelligent attempt for a beginner….
After watching MMPAW, I was speechless….
This is the difference between a Commercial and a
HAT KE movie…
Whatever u said is really a kind of shock to many of the readers….bcoz most of us never knew th internal economics of the industry…
I m a big fan of SRK, but i would always prefer Mohan Bhargav of Swadesh over Rahul of any of those Romantic CRAPS…
I m eagerly waiting 4 ur next Film,
Tell us about ur future projects in ur next blogs..
Lets not get into economics of cinema…If YRF and others bring in the money then why is not that money channeled into some serious cinema.( They are hardcore businessmen..they do not even care a fuck about anything other than their own cinema). Again by serious cinema i do not mean “off beat” always.(whoever came up with that term).If you are talking about support to indie cinema…no one is a blind fanatic here..the people frequenting PFC do end up liking those films like MSFU and JoHNNY G or LOPP.THey give undiluted views on the movies@PFC.Indie films require support…mann!!
PFC is a platform to discuss and speak your mind out..but that doesnt mean we cross the limits. but who decides the limits( the moderators do here ..good job).
AGAIN YOU SAY THAT WE ALL ARE BEING INTOLERANT. IT IS NOT BEING INTOLERANT BUT MANISFESTATIONS OF UNDILUTED OPINIONS.DONT YOU THINK BY GAGGING SOMEONES TRUE VIEWS WE ARE BEING INTOLERANT OURSELVES.
PFC doesnt have an inclination towards Indie cinema or different cinema always..even if you think there is an inclination..YOU just created a balance with your post Suparn which I afraid was not an eye opener for me( which ofcourse wasnt your intention or was it??)
~Cheers~
world cinema is divide in to two serious and culture cinema,whole world cinema is divided on their opinion and we are no different
when we talk about Indian Cinema not only commercial but serious cinema also bring laurel to it
what is more important is rather than we looking outside to the outside world cinema for subject they should look at us and appericiate the subjects on which make our cinema
Anurag, you missed my point. I said I know Indian culture is not what they show in a Bollywood film, but by being introduced to Bollywood films I was also introduced to other types Indian films. I learned about some religious customs and family customs that I would have never known about and some of those were in Bollywood-type films. I’ve made many friends with the owners of the Indian stores in my area , these are people I would have never known and they feed me and showed musch love to me during my unemployment by giving me a $150 ticket to see AR Rahman when he was in concert. A few years ago I would not even have known who he was or I would not have cared.
I DJ at some clubs in Washington DC and I’ve played Indian music and even had a Bollywood night to show Video songs to people that have never heard of Bollywood….so don’t tell me “you make my fear come true” and to tell me to go to another site that will suit me better, that insults me because I do everything I can to educate people who have never even seen a Indian movie.
I enjoy all types of Indian cinema including the Art films. I saw “the Namesake” (and loved it)because Tabu was in and I knew her from the Tamil films I used to watch, but I started with “Bollywood” and this lead to that.
I know the Directors,Writers and Producers names and what films they make and their style of film and this all started with me watching “Bollywood”.I know which film companies will release the best quality DVD’s(EROS is the worst)and where they do their mastering and this was all because I discovered “Bollywood” films .
….so Anurag, don’t tell me that I make your fears come true!
I’m very passionate about what I talk about and I love this site because I can give my opinions too!
The term “BOLLYWOOD” stinks of servile tendencies.Sad but true.What can we expect..It saddens me.
Avinash,
If only you had watched house of games and confidence, you would have said ” suparn, saaf chori hai aur woh bhi ghatiya chori, apne aadhi earning James Foley ko dena”
@Suparn,
>This was supposed to be a place where a David >Dhawan fan has as much place as a Ray bhakt.
Exactly.. I was a bit disappointed that even you have raised the voice for the Populist cinema not a balance between the two..
>any niche cinema for that matter can be made is >because the very names that are maligned >everyday, by us the so called keepers of the >conscience of intelligent cinema
Is it really you making this point? or a ghost writer under your name..
and I still fail to understand if you have to raise your voice for the cinema of SRK,KJs then again why the route have to be thru grudges against a personal remark on KJ or whoever.. When someone is making a personal remark on Mr. KJ, I am completely against it.. It is against a human being.. but why a sensible writer like you need sympathy for “popular kind of cinema” having that derogatory remark in the base..
Also People here are as cruel to Sudhir Mishra ji and Anurag as KJ or whoever.. I am very happy that KJ and SRK is not discussed much and hence spared..
Unlike other forums it is not a place where we discuss and fight who is great Kishore or Rafi.. who is better Amitabh or Shahrukh..
>A film industry is not just actors, directors and >producers or a handful of technicians.
>It is thousands of character actors, junior >artistes, dancers, thousands of daily wage >workers who are not just lightmen but carpenters, >van guys, dressmen, make up men, spotboys, there >are industries within industries which keep >working on multiple films.
Please add the writers, script writers and directors of small offbeat cinema to this list
and believe me no other forum (apart from RMIM on music) discuss this aspect and give respect to them as much as we do it.. If I have to write a post on Mangesh Desai or a Tony waz I would definitely think of PFC rather than any other forum.. and yes pass me the link where you have blogged (not a professional story) on the above people.. I would love to read it and believe me my admiration for you will grow exponentially..
hey
i totally agree with you when you say that cinema is also and audio – visual medium..
and that is precisely the reason why i want to see saawariya… everything so mammoth.. over the top.. colorful.. indian.. and BEAUTIFUL.. you enjoy being in that hall without thinking… just feeling (watching and hearing)
and
i enjoyed reading your post!!
@jwalant..”apne aadhi earning James Foley ko dena
Dear Suparnji,
PFC as we all understand it is an alternative platform and not the mainstream media {MSM}. MSM, in order to be competitive is driven by financial considerations and public relations. It has to stay ahead in sales and TRP. So we see tie-ups between big movie makers and media channels, which promote these films 24/7.
The critics at MSM are also sold out, part of the vast media machine. Rajeev Masand and Bharadwaj Rangan seems to be the only exception here. And Bharadwaj Rangan started his career through blogging.
Good movies made in the past have not only been ignored by MSM critics, but also killed by scathing reviews. Haasil by T. Dhulia and Yahaan by Shoojit Sarkar are just two instances.
PFC is a platform that levels the level playing field. If MSM is taken over by the big players, small alternative platforms are where we thrive. And there is no prejudice.
emotionally charged article or comments always miss the facts.how one can appreciate the profit making ventures of so called big banners.come on..be rational.
Well, PFC has started out as an Open Source Movement, I don’t want it to go the Microsoft way, although I see some Microsoft tendencies creeping up with the people running this site.
Agree that commercial films do tend to make money, even more reason for them to get out of their security zones and invest in the promotion of cinema in the truest sense, be passionate for cinema than monies, take chances, leave your insecurities. If its a great cinema it by itself shoufl make money. But unfortunately thats not happenning……manorama, a great film , has been appreciated, but not done business, thats bad news….it makes me depressed.
As someone here pointed about george clooney and stenven soderberg in one of the posts.
[referening to manorama] because ultimately every filmmaker would want his/her movie to earn money. it makes me rethink about the taste of the audiences and whether a good storytelling will be able to survivie in our country. How strong a conviction we need to continue to tell the story we want to tell and the way we want to say it. I also wonder if they had a shahrukh kahn in manorama would it have done better business, cause then we are in deep shit, then we are not just killing a good story, a good director but also a good actor.
Suparn, search in archives n u will find posts uniquely dedicated to Bachan Sahib..many of us debating like kids..showing our admiration towards him..similarly posts on SRK praising the actor, person he is…remember the Kishore Kumar interview that was posted and the idea of making a film on his life was discussed…remember, one of the actors, who was suggested…it was Govinda !!
You will find lot of such eg’s here.
To mr Supam Verma,
just my view point
1. I certainly agree to some of the points you have highlighted like one should NOT get personal and respect each other’s view on cinema… I certainly agree everyone should do that…..
2. I just like good Movies.. I dont care whether its off beat, on Beat, Beat or No Beat. Iam sure there are many like me over here..
3. Kunal Kohli gave a 5 star rating to Black friday… how many of us will give a 5 star rating to Mai Hoon na ??? No I wont give 5 star rating to Mai hoon na NOT coz its a commerical cinema but just coz i did NOT like the movie.. Kunal kohli gave a 5 star coz he Liked BLACK FRIDAY as simple as that.. He did not give the rating coz it was so called off beat cinema..
3. While i certainly agree that stereotype’s may exist but your write up indicates that all who like the so called off beat cinema over here dont appreciate commercial cinema…There are no commercial cine haters anywhere or maybe there are some.. But I believe everyone likes good movies ( maybe their own definetion of good movies ) .. It doesnt really matter who makes it..
So to answer your question
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
@NoVaDJ
Yeah, it saddens me too…Anurag seems to have this weird sense of fairness. Whenever people disagree with him, it is either get out of this site or what is bothering you, you can never make a film, so that is what is eating you? – kind of stuff he comes up with. Well, I hope he knows better.
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
Suparn,Oz, just the fact that you feel calling someone gay is derogatory…shows that you are in fact homophobic yourselves…! For instance,here in the west, if someone called David Geffen a producer who happens to be gay or Ellen Degeneres a tv perssonality who also happens to be openly gay, and proud of it…it is not construed as derogatory. So, in your kneejerk reaction to anyone commenting on a person’s sexuality shows your cultural narrow mindedness. Guys wake the fuck up! Being gay is really not such a big deal any more…maybe in India it’s different…but that’s gotta change.
So to answer your question
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
Thanks Suparn,
I 100% support your views. I had raised similar questions in my recent post http://passionforcinema.com/the-fan-is-sick-and-tired/
thanks…good to know that a filmmaker of your standing shares similar view as a common film fan…
Gayism is not the issue..cinema at large in India is a greater issue to be dealt with
…and like President Ahmedinijad was asked about Gay laws in Iran..he said “we do not have gays in Iran like in the U.S.”..what an answer!!!:d
guys canyone let me know why iam not able to post my view.. LOL
Im just able to post 1 line… dont know why
@just copy paste…may be your posting too fast..give it sometime
am also surprised you put Johnny Gaddar in the list of niche cinema.. It is as masala and entertaining as MHN any day.. The director of Johnny Gaddar has respected the intelligence of the audience more than MHN..
so to answer your question
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
@ alone :whats wrong with yor posts??:-?
Damn Damn Damn i will try it next time..
now it looks like iam asking that question myself..or rather spamming
LOL
@44 Yeah in india people don’t come out of thier closets, like they do in US because its their personal choice, or they are not what people presume them to be, or they don’t want their parents or families to get embarassed or they ar enot as open to things even if they do it openly because just like bollywood which has become a part of indian culture so has hypocrisy
@ Sourav
iam not able to paste my response.. whenever i do its only the first line which is gtting posted
@ alone i read it already..ur post is the one with numbered reply right??..its there…nice post though
i think the ire of PFC is not against making money(by chopras,johars or others..but there constant desire to work with a select coterie.they keep on churning out mediocre work but are lauded with applause which they do not deserve.perhaps passion for cinema is passion for good cinema.people here do applaud good work..for example chak de despite being yashraj finds lot of approval.The thing to be angry about is,one never discusses The blue umbrella, a Manorama or when anil kapoor wastes anurag’s two years of his life…who cares.u say to stop bitching but what about these things…cinema carries with itself lot of accessories…and these are some of then…it is good to see that people are taking notice of PFC…karan johar talks of anurag’s “attitude” in Tehelka interview…lets hope some good sense prevails and cinema,eventually,succeeds
There is another 2 page to it.. Thats just 1 part of it…
Anurag says – “shifas bin, suparn.. well the entire media, the press and the world is a forum for YRF and KJ and SLB.. this i don
and yes, I agree with Anurag…there are a ton of online forums devoted to kj,yrf,srk etc, etc….why turn this one into a sad clone too? And no Suparn, not everyone laughs at Dhawan jokes…people not raised in a garbage dump find his jokes atrocious. I think we should stick to promoting niche,intelligent cinema..and not be rapped on the knuckles by an anal retentive moderator every time we say something that his prehistoric,outdated and obselete ’sense of propriety’ doesnt agree with. I for one am an anarchist (I guess a decade in NYC did that to me)…I think cops should be lynched…..
@JokerCries, thanks for your support, I’m used to being attacked because of my love for Indian Cinema:)>-:d
Film industry is not running coz of anyone.. Its running coz ppl are hungry for movies… nothing else,, So you remove all your so called commercial cine makers ppl will still watch movies.. So NOO… movies like Black friday etc are not produced coz the so called giants have some buffer or watever…UTV the so called small movies isliye nahi banata hai coz they wnt to promote this kind of cinema… They do it coz they see the Money in there as well.. ITS PURELY BUSINESS AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG ABT IT…..Subhash ghai must have earned more from IQBAL than YAADEIN.. ( cost vs profit %).. After all they are not there to make movies that would revive a particular type of cinema… But the idea of prmoting small films is that these movies give them handsome returns if they run well and if they dont they dont burn your pocket..Besides giving a feeling that a particular production house is churning X amt of movies..And yes at the end of the day the production house feels good about a good movie…. Its like those C grade shares which can even make u a crorepati overnight… Boss not all mutual funds invest only in Reliance and Infosys… They also invest a part of it on the so called DARK HORSE..
Finally you made it alone
To Answer some of your questions
will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
Its still not done yaar.. dont know iam not able to answer his questions though
LOLzzz
will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?…Will anyone here say that Main Hoon Na was a total masala entertainer? — I watched it once, I did not like it..
Will anyone here say that Hey Babyy was a total fanboy comedy? — This was a waste for me…
Will anyone here say they saw Dhamaal and laughed? — I did not watch dhamaal..not my Type.
Will anyone here say they enjoyed Hum Tum? — I did not..
Why don
@Alone, great post!
I want to know if Suparn or oz find it objectionable if I suggested they are heterosexuals.
Films are the best mediums to destory entrenched prejudice against gays and celebrate all types of sexual orientation.By gagging certain posters regarding this just renforces prejudice and your own regressive jaunduced view. To think some of these people live in more liberal countries and still have the Ahmedenajad view is puzzling.
Calling someone gay is less of a crime than stealing movies.
@ Travis: Calling someone gay is less of a crime than stealing movies”..well said mate
Agreed in general with Suparn but still got to speak out against black:
I saw black on the first saturday of its release then again on sunday then again on monday and was truly blown-up, started saying and believing that its the one of the greatest hindi movie of all time. Then time an again heared of it being unoriginal, westernaization, opulent sets and so on, and never gave a damn. And then one day I happen to see The Miracle Worker and was kind-of ashamed for loving black. If the facial expressions, limb movements, camera placements, light and sound effects etc etc are ditto for half the running lenght of a film, then it got to be called as plagiarisation and not the director’s vision.
ZINDABAD Suparn, tumne mere dil ki baat bol di. i am a person who is raised on manmohan desai,basu chatterjee,vijay anand etc and now also i feed on all kind of good cinema. chahe woh kitano ho ya apna david dhawan. like i had said after watching Partner. i need a david dhawan film every year.i need a karan johar film & i need a bhansali film along with all the other off-beat cinema around the year.
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
No Suparn, but i love the jokes in Hrishida’s Gol Maal, Gulzar’s Angoor and Priyan’s Hera Pheri.
Will anyone here say that Main Hoon Na was a total masala entertainer?
Nah, for me Amar Akbar Antony remains the ultimate masala entertainer.
Will anyone here say that Hey Babyy was a total fanboy comedy?
dont know what is fanboy comedy, but i love comedies, as long as i find em genuinely funny. Now what is genuinely funny, that varies from person to person. I love the biting sarcastic humour of a Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron or Gulzar’s witty Angoor and yes even that of a Dulhe Raja. Some movies make me laugh, some dont, nothing to do with whether its fan boy or tom boy.
Will anyone here say they saw Dhamaal and laughed?
No i have not, but I have seen Dulhe Raja, Bade Miyan Chote Miyan, Namak Halaal, Hungama, Satte Pe Satta and laughed a lot.
Will anyone here say they enjoyed Hum Tum?
Nah hated it, and before u say i dont like rom coms, i loved Dil Hai Ki Maanta Nahin, which is as good a rom com as it comes.
Why don
HEAR!HEAR!…just the post one wanted all this while… a healthy debate..yes!!!but puleezzee I don’t like David Dhawan jokes…I didn’t like MHN or the KJo films…Kabhi Alvida was a shade better…but I love Bollywood — hrishikesh MUkherjee, Sai Paranjpe, Basu Chatterjee, and films like Deewar, Sholay….Yummmmmm!!!!
Now regarding Yash Raj, KJo and SRK, i dont hate em because they make money or they are commercially succesful. I just find their movies plain boring, simple and straight. And i dont think i need to give an explanation for that, Suparn, that is my choice, not a subject for Phd.
Suparn, there are dime a dozen sites to promote SRK or Yash Raj movies, but seriously not many to publicize a MSFU or JG, so if people here give more prominence to those movies, whats wrong.
“Govinda is one of the awesomest actors we have and we nearly threw him out off the industry”
He got kicked out because of his own unprofessional attitude and his choice of movies. I like his movies, but his later movies before he went into semi retirement, sucked badly. And before u draw conclusions, i enjoyed Kyonki Main Jhooth Nahi Boltha.
Suparn as a movie goer its our prerogative to decide what movie to see or what movie to discuss on. Why should i let some else dictate that to me?
i love masala movies whats so wrong in liking them..i love of-beat movies also…a story or an idea should be well made and well said…i like it …simple as that…
the challenge facing the off-beat filmmakers are more of economical nature ..they need much word of mouth publicity….masala movies face financial challenges of a different nature..much money is pumped in which makes producers, distri, directors fearful to deviate from formulaic themes and narrative styles….
a blend of both worlds is needed..
@Supern
BTW What are your views on Ekta Kapoor
It is simple..if the movie is good by and large be it any category..it will do well..bcz word of mouth is the best form of publicity..its a sureshot way of publicity although slow but sure footed.
“When did we get so clannish?
All through the last several months, be it on comments or inside the PFC club a recurrent bitching session goes on about Yash Raj. Karan Johar, SRK, Aamir, Salman, Bhansali, or relatively new directors like Farah Khan, Sajid Khan or the funny man David Dhawan or any
I enjoy all kind of movies…Whether they r gud or bad. I luv SRK movies, AB’s old movies, comedy,action & everything. I just love movies.
@Ratnakar: mann..you are on fire..Man on Fire(Tony Scott)
@ 79 Maria: The sweetest and the simplest comment ever posted on PFC:d
“Anand was a remake of Japanese film (Ikiru, correct me if I
Well said. well timed
I think the most insanely ripped movie is “BICcHOO”… it seemed as if “LEON” was dubbed in hindi with Bobby Deols voice.
@ Sourav: Thanks dude, but i honestly was getting sick of this “you dont watch X kind of movies so u must be Y”, or “You dont like HR, so u must be elitist” or “You hate Ekta Kapoor, so ur jealous of her” kinda psycho anayltic crap which i have been hearing a lot. And just wanted to vent it out.
i think we people here are more intellectually oriented and try to intellectualize everything.we like to think…we have set a parameter, a scale…an intellectual parameter. anything/ anybody which donot scale to that level we discard, demean, damn.
i think the parallel or experimental cinema we discuss here is doing just one thing…removing the facade, the butter, the make-up of the commercial cinema. thats why it feels real.
A KANK can be made without the ‘makeup’and it will be called the experimental cinema of today’s times…addressing contemporary issues like infidelity. Just the genere makes it ‘intellectual’.
I also think any experimental cinema of today can be made in to a commercial cinema…and it wont sound ‘intellectual’ anymore.
Its just what we like, prefer- Plain Roti or Butter Roti.Both are made the same way, with our without butter. Afterall its all about bread and butter.
@ nishant: good thoughts buddy..good points.
Saurav, Ratnakar, Nishant,Alone, Travis Bickel…
You guys should read my post
http://passionforcinema.com/where-is-our-george-clooney/
Its a similar discussion going on there. Would love to know opinions of you guys!
cheers
Neat very neat i must say …Its high time we should appreciate movies like
Tamboo mein bamboo
Jab ghar mein ho sali to har raat diwali..et cetera…classics should never be forgotten ….
Rocking post, indeed! ^:)^
I don’t really find there’s a huge barrier between commercial or arthouse cinema. Cinema, as many have said here, is either good or bad. As simple as that!
Now I don’t laugh at David Dhawan jokes or his films as they are very *INSINCERE* attempts and they are mostly gross. Same goes for Heyy Babyy.
But I just LOVED Main Hoon Naa. Because it was able to laugh at itself. Everyone knew it was a so-called ‘nonsense masala’ movie. But what worked for me was, it was *made* with a lot of intelligence and it was brave enough to asseverate that it was ‘nonsense’. Now I’m eagerly looking forward to Om Shanti Om. Yes, I loved Hum Tum too. Dreading to be called a gay, I state that I didn’t hate either KANK or DON (SRK, 2006). Or to put it simply, I LIKED them in spite of their flaws, whatever they may be.
You can make a mega-budget masterpiece or a low-budget crap. It all depends on the sensibilities of the filmmaker and how s/he treats it. We need no offbeat or commercial or any kind of categorized cinema. We need good cinema. Now there’s always a best or better among the good ones. All we need is to market them properly. Normally that’s the parameter. We call an undermarketed/no-star film a non-commercial one and a widely-promoted/starry film a commercial movie. That’s it!
Please, please, please don’t attack me. My opinions are not to offend anyone! They are strictly PERSONAL. :d:d Hehe!
Suparn,good to hav u back. But first things first. dont think its Us VS them. its OUR CINEMA VS THIER CINEMA. gosh…reminds me of that book. yes its is “VS” cz i cant stand that cinema, i dont want to waste my 200 bocks there cz million others r already spending. so i will keep my 200 bucks for those who dare. ya..people with differnt choices can be here but we definitly wud shout for them whom we belive in…whose cinema we like. may be something wrong with my dna if i cant watch shit like dhoom n krish n kank. they made millions. as far as dhamal,hey baby n david dhawans movies go, hav stopped watching them long back. dont want to waste my 200 there. for a film like main hoon na…loved the music. but didnt like the film. its comic book film but then dont give me indo-pak gyaan with ur popcorn. its like spiderman saving the world and telling me about world economic forum also. there goes the middle finger. for wef fundas, michael morre is there. n let the big brother go out and make as much money as he wants. let the younger bro go to school only but one day he will also earn. utopia? may be. but atleast he is learning so that he doesnt have to go the wrong way to make money. if they make something that we like ofcourse we will shout from d rooftop. we hate the yrf of dhoom,tara rum pum n other shit. but give me deewar,kala patthar,trishul,silsila,vijay anyday. give me mohabatein n i will puke. not only its shit but its such a bad copy of one of my all time fav film. ok ok,it made money. so supran, its not us vs them. its strictly our cinema(films that we like) VS their cinema(films that we dont like). sorry but u gt it all wrong this time. n is there a way that i can like doom n krishs of the world, then do let me know. will try that formula too.
Suparn:”Will anyone here say that Hey Babyy was a total fanboy comedy?”
I don’t know how you say that Suparn, for me, it was just plain pathetic- this has nothing to do with artistic sensibilities. I just didn’t find it funny…and this is someone who laughed his lungs out in No Entry.
“Will anyone here say they enjoyed Hum Tum?”
(Gulp)
“But Bhansali
“I just LOVED Main Hoon Naa. Because it was able to laugh at itself. Everyone knew it was a so-called
Travis Bickel: “Calling someone gay is less of a crime than stealing movies…I want to know if Suparn or oz find it objectionable if I suggested they are heterosexuals.”
Good point, bro- but then the tone when you accuse someone of being gay is vastly different- it is not really something said in a complimentary manner. Nobody says, “Hey look- hey’s straight!”, for God’s sake!
And it’s Travis Bickle, not Bickel.
NoVaDJ :”I
And how may i ask you deduced the “tone”. In fact i’m having trouble deducing the tone of your
Thanks, Jahan.
What use of a vision when you know if it isn’t your eye Suparn? Wasn’t this the theme of “Pyaasa”. I strongly object your way of grouping Manmohan Desai and Mukul Anand with someone as timeless as a Guru dutt. It is what I would call blasphemy. You better get your head checked. This forum is definitely for people passionate about cinema and the names you have hailed as Zindabad, do not have any vision or passion for cinema. Their vision stretches only as far as upto the teller’s counter in the bank. To equate them with someone like Guru da is sacrilege. Guru da made his movies which are purely his own and with something called “committment” and “conviction”. This forum i believe is meant for appreciating any movie maker, movies – mainstream, arthouse or in the middle, but all made with the 2 Cs. Without that you might as well open BSE stock watch page and keep looking at it.
Brilliant Article Suparn.Hit the nail straight on the head
“…Bhansali
man. That guy put paro and chandramukhi dance together and our “new – age” directors are going to put them in bed together. DevDas will drink to that.
This might sound a bit blasphemous but I am not sure why Bhansali is getting panned here…..agreed that Devdas was over the top…..but let us give to the man what he deserves…..he is miles ahead by complete non-starters like Farah Khan/Sajid Khan/David Dhawan…Let us not put him in the same bracket…and he is one of the very few directories in contemporary Indian cinema who draws inspirations from literature.
I actually am very sorry to say that the same group of people who are criticising Bhansali will go ahead and write eulogies for Zhang Yimou/Ang Lee films….Aren’t there films sometimes over the top, not connected with reality….but they have the vision….that is what SLB has….I am not saying he is flawless…..but let us appreciate what he is good at….
Bhansali is miles ahead of Farah Khan ? How man how ?
Both are commercial, mainstream. How do you even compare them ?
Commercial/mainstream cinema is a pretty broad genre…..so that I guess leaves room for a bit of a comparison……this holds for Hollywood too ……;)
It’s not true that only arthouse cinema can be compared……
“-With all respect, NoVaDJ, I can
I will be short. The quintessence of this post for me is:
“We already have enough divides and biases in the real world.
At least keep them out off the movies”
V.P.Jaiganesh: LOL, LMAO :d:d:d:d:d
With DUE RESPECT to the commenter (no names mentioned)who thinks SLB draws inspiration from literature, please think again (no offense intended). On the contrary, he ****s up literature. I am a Bengali. So I know how Sharat Chandra’s Devdas actually IS. To be frank, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM with over-the-top opulence. But it jars me when you are supposedly “adapting” a novel called Devdas and you pass off something else (read filthy). In the novel, the financial condition of Paro’s family was very, very, very, very, very WEAK. But we see her living in nothing less than a palace and wearing all kinda designer saris. The bahus in those times were hardly allowed to meet *outsiders*, forget dancing with a prostitute. I’ve no problems with unrealistic films as long as they are treated “unrealistically”.
Likewise I want to mention I will not speak a word against Saawariya since it’s been claimed as an original work. Whatever the setting or the story may be they are all pardoned even before the release.
But, as you have said, it’s undeniable that he has an eye for opulence. Saawariya trailer indeed shows that.
Once again: NO OFFENSE MEANT. Let’s not continue *this* discussion. End it here.
Well I’ve never been able to watch Main Hoon Na completely but I thought parts of the movie were very entertaining. Some characters and situations were hilarious-
Satish Shah spitting during all his dialogues. Especially in class when all his students dive for cover. Lol!
Bindu saying Macho (pronounced Mako!) Man!
Most scenes between SRK and Sush with the violins playing in the air etc.
Plus you have to admits, songs and their picturizations were great…
I thought MHN worked in these scenes because it didn’t take itself too seriously. The movie targeted teens I guess. How many teenagers visit this site?
Well- I really liked Hum Tum- I thought the cartoons idea was quite novel. Plus everybody acted really well in it. Rishi Kapoor- wow!
Haven’t seen either Hey Baby or Dhamaal and don’t intend to. But I loved Hera Pheri and even No Entry.
But I can’t really stand any of K JO’s movies. As for Bhansali, the only movie I can watch are the scenes involving Ajay Devgan in HDDCS, only just. But I have great respect for Yash Chopra. Today Deewar was on a channel on TV in the morning and I tore myself away to work…
Agreed Citizen Kane. But this is the problem when viewers like you see adaptations as plain “lifts” rather than as a framework. Of course Paro’s condition in the novel was very, very, very, very, very WEAK. But how does it alter the essence of the conflict that Paro and Devdas are in? You might not appreciate the external fabric of Bhansali’s “Devdas” vis a vis Saratchandra’s. But in that case Moulin Rouge by Luhrmann might not find much appreciation in your book. Just a thought!
I don’t have a problem with ending the conversation as well especially with someone who doesn’t have much left to say it seems. No offense meant from my side as well.
wow!!
There’s a lotta discussion going on about offbeat vs commercial cinema. I try to keep a healthy balance between the two. I come to PFC to catch up with good/interesting movies but I also like to watch masala entertainer like Chak de India (did not dare to watch Hey Baby). When I was doing my masters, ‘yeh kya ho raha hai’ (i dont know how many of you have heard of this movie) was a feel good movie for me and my roomies. it really put us in a good mood whenever we were bummed out. at the same time, we loved to watch a haasil or yahan. Last weekend watched two such movies. Vanaja and Happy Days. I was actually waiting for someone to write a review on Happy Days on PFC. Maybe i will have to do it myself.
Vanaja was very interesting very natural and a bit bold movie. loved the performances of the girl and the landlady. thought that the ending was a bit abrupt though.
Thoroughly enjoyed ‘Happy Days’. yet another good entertainer by Shekar Kammula. Made all the more special since it was shot entirely in the college i went to(of which Shekar is alumnus). It made me extremely nostalgic.
@NoVaDJ, i thought your name sounded familiar. Today i recieved a forwarded mail from a friend abt the Vibha DC Disco Dandia at Annandale, VA. Are you by any chance DJing there? If you are, I will see you there!!
Really no need of zinda/murdabad for them. They are well established people and their generations are safe. my main concern is your statement in the bold letter that film industry survives and exists on their names.
The groups you are talking are comprised of intelligent smart individuals who know how to exploit any medium for their wellness..well endowed they admire each other distribute awards among themselves and visit hospitals on occasions. But as far as cinema is concerned yes the no. of Indian viewer are keep on decreasing and this is main topic of dismay. They found NRI money to celebrate their life. Showing them melodrama and good looking.
They are wealthy to do but no wealth in the world can help cinema forward..only creativity and deed can. The group you are talking about actually feed themselves by reinforcing formula of love that ends in mundup ya station or celebration of being Indian from Punjab, its so long they are abusing audience and their sensibility. Poor audience from their various acts knows that they are the cinema.
So its need of the time that site like passion for cinema should completely devote its content for real cinema, that is why we faithfully keep dropping in to educate our self. Meanwhile its really required to abuse those who keeps abusing real viewer and serve only.. don
Hey, thanks Arijit. But I never accused any adaptation as “lift”. Lifts are lifts and adaptations are adaptations. Obviously the conflict is same as of the book or you can get enough cinematic liberty, but not to THIS extent. This was way toooooooo superfluous. You must keep some of the original elements from the book intact. There’s a certain limit of cinematic liberty in case of adaptations.
Yeah, MR did find appreciation in my book.
P.S. I have a lot to say but I don’t want to. Hehe!:d
Thank you once again for agreeing with me. So let’s move on to something else.
It feels so good when someone says what you want to say in such a direct way which you tend to avoid… Thanks Suparn =d>
“well endowed they admire each other distribute awards among themselves and visit hospitals on occasions”
=))
passionforcinema.com has not shown any bias tendency towards one kind of cinema, because there are more than one voices on passionforcinema.com. there are heaps of separate blogs within the one blog! in fact, it is the people from other side always show a bit biasness by classiying a slightly hatke movie as arthouse and non-commerical. Now where is the fairness?
secondly, do you think Chak De India! would have happened if Iqbal had not?! I do not think so. I do not think SRK or Yash Raj would have had the guts to come up with that, if Iqbal had not happen. Iqbal – a non-star film was a bit successful film and this non-star film was the catalyst for the all sports films we had after Iqbal. Did Iqbal get the kind of recognition Chak De India! got from the people from other side? I do not think so. So where is the fairness?
passionforcinema.com has been more than welcome to all kind of cinema, where as the people from other side hardly…….. so where is the fairness?!
anyway, Gandhigiri se kuch nahi hoga.. Goondagari karni padti hain.
@srishti, that’s not me DJ-ing at Vibha DC Disco Dandia. I haven’t done it in a few years and I think it is Desi DJ’s for that club and I’m not Indian.
I guess because I’m not Indian that is one of the reasons I’m so fascinated by the imagination of the Indian cinema .It’s not commonplace for me, so I get more passionate about things that are taken for granted by others.
This site is called “Passion For Cinema”, I would think that “Cinema” means all forms of “Cinema”, but some of you on here want to pigeon-hole it as “Indie” only and want all of us who want discuss anything but “Indie Cinema” to go elsewhere. I can discuss any kind of “Cinema” and I only posted my comments toward commercialism because this blog seemed to lean toward that type of discussion.
HG ->”"”passionforcinema.com has not shown any bias tendency towards one kind of cinema, because there are more than one voices on passionforcinema.com. “”"
Thats a wrong statement. See archives and you would see mention of Govinda’s movie trolled. May be people are learning now.
Sorry? Am I missing something here Jwalant?
“Govinda’s movie trolled” – how does one troll a movie?
A search on Govinda actually ends up giving this PFC post on the first line:
http://passionforcinema.com/glorifying-govinda
- and I don’t see any PFC Author or any reader commenting that has been trolled in there…
Taken from online dictionary:
http://dict.die.net
Troll \Troll\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Trolled; p. pr. & vb. n.
Trolling.] [OE. trollen to roll, F. tr[^o]ler, Of. troller
to drag about, to ramble; probably of Teutonic origin; cf. G.
trollen to roll, ramble, sich trollen to be gone; or perhaps
for trotler, fr. F. trotter to trot (cf. Trot.). Cf.
Trawl.]
….I didn’t know what it meant either:(
Jawalant, any links. And what do you mean?
My comments in this thread
http://passionforcinema.com/john-abraham-just-wondering/
Remove the edit and see if anyone was getting offended by comments. One comment was only listing some of hit comedies that was edited(trolled) as well.
then we didn’t troll Govinda’s movie. We troll capped YOU. Because your comments contained parts which went against our comments policy.
Don’t say we trolled a movie or an actor. It was you and your comment that we trolled. And I’ve given links above that show that we do not have “any bias tendency towards one kind of cinema” based on the example of Govinda’s movie that you yourself pointed out. @118.
Of course we are learning and will always (Inshallah) be grounded to keep on learning.
What’s funny is your logic that PFC is biased and does not appreciate Govinda’s movies. And I mention this with no harm meant but in pure sense of humor.
Objective: Find PFC is biased towards Govinda’s movies
Run Scan: 1 Instance found where My comment is troll capped because it contains Govinda’s movies
Run Alternate Scan: 10 Plus instances found where Govinda and his performances are praised or supported on PFC by authors or commenters.
Conclusion: PFC is biased and does not appreciate Govinda’s movies.
Come on dude…
tum jise kaal suli me latakte dekhaa hogaa/ wakt ayegaa jab wohi saqk ya to anuraag yaa kunal kohli hogaa :d
Remove the specific section that was filtered out and let everyone judge. You filtered specific section that listed 7-8 movies only.
And I dont care whether you edit or not and for that matter even be pretentious.
Again Jwalant, you are focussed on your comment that has been trolled. What I’m trying to point out to you is your statement that said HG is wrong when he commented “PFC is not biased to one kind of cinema”… the reason you gave was Govinda’s movie was trolled. I’ve given you above examples that counter your statement including the Scan example… but if you are just focussed on “If i’m wronged then everything is wrong” I can’t do much. It’s easier to debate with people than with egos.
yeah and thats what I said, you guys are learning
Jwalant, if you can connect that instance with what i am saying and use that to prove that what i said is all wrong, then do I have right to say that you only read ‘bias’ in my comment and you started showing your prejudices against pfc cos you’re one comment was trolled which did not meet pfc policy and the house rules do not include rules like ‘No comments on Govinda’ or you misinterpreted something or whatever… or whatever….
anyway, according to you, i should have the right to say that you do not have the capability to understand what i was saying is completely different to your problem, right?
Honhaar … Those are really lnng sentences. It feels like I am reading a GMAT reading comprehension section. :d
Or Maybe I am just sleepy. :-s
Love this piece, passionately written though I disagree with quiet a bit of it which I will post later!@
[...] Suparn Verma | LINK I haven
Well articulated piece there Suparn. But why pick up something like Heyy Baby and Dhamaal as examples to prove your point? I’m sure a few more seconds thrown into the thought process would’ve landed you with far better examples of out and out commercial cinema that are top-rate entertainers too.
I loved MHN. FK went on a bigtime tribute n reference trip in the movie that gave rise to a nostalgia wave in me. Awesome.
But Heyy Baby? Please…give us a break. I went to watch it thinking it to be a comedy (thats what the promos promised), but the only “comedy” in it was the latest bollywoodish fad in the genre, slaps. So much for comedy. Dieter Hallerworden’s Juvenile slapstick is far more palatable than the Priyan inspired slaps ruling bollywood comedy these days.
Dhamaal? Such a poor rip-off of Kramer’s classic take on greed – Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. Talking of being sensitive to audience sensibilities, IK even included Kramer’s visual pun where Jimmy Durante kicks the bucket (Prem Chopra does exactly the same in Dhamaal). How many Indian viewers would have caught that joke? And yeah…Dhamaal too had its own share of slaps.
And to answer your questions,
– Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
Oh yes…DD has been one of my favourite directors. I loved his full-on masala riots during his heyday in the 90’s. Though hasn’t been as engaging in recent times. And Partner was another disappointment being a straight rip-off from the Will Smith starrer Hitch.
– Will anyone here say that Main Hoon Na was a total masala entertainer?
I just said it in this post. And have been saying it ever since I saw it first day last show.
– Will anyone here say that Hey Babyy was a total fanboy comedy?
Duh!
- Will anyone here say they saw Dhamaal and laughed?
I cried.
– Will anyone here say they enjoyed Hum Tum?
Hum Tum was way too cheesy for me.
I stopped watching YRF movies after Bunty Aur Babli since I was disappointed bigtime by the drop in their production values. But I did watch Chak De in spite of being a Hamrukh Khan hater. And I have no qualms in accepting that was so restrained in the movie that I was considering not referring to him as Hamrukh Khan anymore. Sanity prevailed at the end though
I’ve grown up watching more movies than many around here. Used to watch atleast 3 a week ever since I was in 6th. And I’ve loved a movie everytime it entertained…rather than going by its cast or budget. Mithunda movies till Daata entertained me as much as his Ooty fare bored me. I loved Shahenshah as much as Mai Azaad Hoon. I can enjoy a Kanti Shah as much as I’d enjoy a Kubrick. I often review movies on a Discussion Board I write on….and I’ve given good reviews to a Yahaan just like I have for MHN….and I’ve dissed both Don and Bas Ek Pal in equal measure.
As someone said earlier too, its unfair to brand all of us partisan just because a few of us are.
Suparn…have always wanted to ask you this…and more so after this article of yours. I know that this is an often-asked-but-never-replied-earnestly type of a question…but I’ll still chance my luck.
I’ve mentioned my feeling on movies like Dhamaal, Partner etc. in my previous comment. Even EKEH belongs to the same list (being a rip-off of Confidence as someone else too has pointed out earlier). What I want to know is why would a filmmaker reproduce scenes from older movies?
Is it out of a lack of depth in creativity?
Is it out of a desire to show respect? If so, then why not allow due credit to the original?
Is it out of some belief that they’ll better the original? If that’s the case, why not actually do something to change it? Even when I see an attempt to change something, its merely cosmetic and doesn’t really change the overall impact in a big way.
Just wanted to know your take on it. Or if someone else from the industry could explain a filmmaker’s psychology behind plagiarism.
@Narcisist…Spot on mann!!!!
wow KANK keeps coming back in one way or another !!
I fully, completely agree with Suparn’s point of view. In last few months, whenever I have visited PFC, this is exactly the feeling I got. Personally, I love watching David Dhawan as well as Sudhir Mishra movies….they all make good and bad movies…
I hope sanity will prevail on this forum after this.
Guys !!
Stop wasting time attacking each other and get busy actually making movies or working on movies instead of being on the sidelines bitching about people who are (no matter in which fashion they are making) none of us who are here have reached the peak of Maslow’s triangle yet to have the rigth to be judgemental about anyone.
Get busy or keep quiet.
Seems like an immensely manipulative post by Suparn, aren’t the likes of him called sycophants? Playing the drippy puppy to the big players in Bollywood so that they throw this dog a bone? Appaling for a reviewer of rediff.com to stoop to such levels. That he is attacking people who love cinema so passionately in defense of businessmen. Rightly said Mainak !! “He is probably hoping Aamir, KJ, David Dhawan,SLK, SRK etc will read this post & reward him. Good luck Suparn. Whatever it takes. If this post helps your career, then my best wishes”
We all know Filmmaking needs money & blah blah blah… You are not the only enlightened soul here. As someone perfectly said coming from someone who steals from Hollywood films it should not be surprising. He clearly has nothing original inside him. Destiny presented him with some breaks which he squandered royally.
Can’t even stand up to your own views man? What is all this talk about people attacking KJ’s sexuality? Everyone knows KJs sexuality. I just read that comment. It seemed like a highly intelligent comment which wasn’t derogatory about gays at all. It was sympathetic towards KJ & critical of the society which stops him from coming out. Infact this whole defensive post makes you a homophobic.
Suparm Verma,
After reading some of the response to your post,I can see your viewpoint behing the write up…I highlighted the same in my post as well that STEREOTYPES do exist and can see your reasoning after some of the response to your thread.. There are ppl who will slam a paarticular cinema just for the heck of it..While everyone is entitled to have their opinion, it does not make sense just to criticize ppl just for the heck of it..So KJ will get slammed even if he makes some good
( movie which is good by STEREOTYPE’s own scale of measurement as well ) but they will still SLAM it coz somewhere in the credit it states DIRECTED by KARAN JOHAR..I can understand this kind of mentality and certainly with time they will evolve..
@ Kartik Kiran
He is probably hoping Aamir, KJ, David Dhawan,SLK, SRK etc will read this post & reward him. Good luck Suparn.
When you defend the so called underdogs do you do it with an intention of any benefiet?? Do u get rewards than why r u accusing him of doing the same just coz he is defending ppl who are big players in cinema.. why are we getting personal??
So if you defend the so called HATKE film makers etc its perfectly alright but if someone defends KJ etc he is doing it for a benefiet.. Going by this logic a small scale film maker in this industry can never defend KJ/YRF etc coz he wud alwsys he accused of having an ulterior motive..Yea if you dont make films u can still go ahead and write wat suparn has to say coz ppl atleast wont say that you have an ulterior motive..Do you think thats fair??
Why there is so much intolerance.. why dont we respect each other’s view point even if we dont agree to it.. Think abt it buddy.
// – Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies? //
I will say a big NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
99% of the hits DD dished out in the 90s are from tamil/malayalam hits (DD reamde in hindi, the telugu remakes of these tamil/malayalam films)….
nowadays he has upgraded himself with a DVD player and is dishing out poor remakes of B-C grade hollywood films…….
Even I support the view that any film maker or film actor shouldn
The Narcisist: Out of the ten films which I have written in terms of story screenplay and dialogues, two have been remakes the rest have not.
Why does it happen. You get called to an office of a producer who has a big starcast lined up to play the leads in a remake. You are hurting that when u write a Chhal witha zero starcast nobody goes to see it, you write an ‘original’ yeh kya ho raha hai it is ‘marketed from day one as Bollywoods answer to American Pie made with new faces.
So here is the deal, the money is good, u know the film will get seen and guess what The Rock remake Qayamat is a super hit!
You find a director like Rohit Shetty who wants to do something new so one writes a Zameen for him which is based on my experience of covering the IC 814 hijack, u end up meeting Sanjay F Gupta who decides to make Karam, incidentally Chhal and Karam both were subjects I wrote for Raja Sen who is currently making Karzzy 4 for Rakesh Roshan!!!
You want to direct you own film, you have LOTS of original scripts, but either they are too different or costly etc etc or lets just say the higher powers haven’t ’seen’ the film so cannot ‘visualise ur vision’
So a guy who never assisted anyone to prove his technical credentials as a director takes every con film he knew, using house of games and confidence plots as the framework, ‘decides to make his debut.
The guy tells himself this take two directors give them the same script they will give u two diff looking/sounding film.
Do most directors and writers want to do remakes? NO!!! Why do they do it?
Because no copyright law exists in India to protect the IPR of the original filmmakers unless its a film of another Indian language. So the party continues until laws come into effect and producers feel safer remaking hits hoping they will translate into the same out here. Sometimes actors want to play the role played by a Pacino or Cruise of Clooney or Julia Roberts.
Was that a honest enuf answer to ur question?
Kartik Kiran: You need to stop seeing the world in juvenile black and white terms. If I wanted to get on the goodside of the BIG filmmakers and actors I would have done that right from my journalistic days!
Secondly if u see this post as being sycophantic in nature u missed the whole point pal
Anurag K: Bro I didn’t understand what u meant by the money YashRaj makes doesn’t go back into the industry?
Aren’t they putting their money back into films and studios and equipment and technicians? Arent they one of the few companies who pay a technician on time without him/her having to call them up?
Arent they generating money for the 100’s of distributors and thousands of exhibitors?
and when u say “what is wrong with good cinema if it can bring in money.. it will happen slowly.. these films will be discovered slowly.. these are not boring pretentious art cinema..”
What made u think I’m being anti anything? isn’t my post quiet to the contrary? And good and bad cinema are relative terms, they change as we travel the length and breadth of the country and social and educational strata
“He is probably hoping Aamir, KJ, David Dhawan, SLK, SRK etc will read this post & reward him”
“It seemed like a highly intelligent comment which wasn
Suparn,
A lot of your points are well taken but I want to comment on your statement ‘good and bad cinema are relative terms…’.
You’re right if one sees cinema for pure entertainment or ‘paisa vasool’- fine good and bad cinema are relative. Everybody’s tastes differ.
But if you think cinema can approach an art form then you are wrong. There is definitely good cinema and bad cinema, without qualifications and we can learn from the masters about the difference.
dazedandconfused I never said there is no good cinema and bad cinema, but with reference to this pot I said its relative as in, u liking a film which I dont like or not liking a film I like does not make u right or wrong! thats all:)
Hey Suparn, why support a system that exists in its own incestuous den oblivious to the real world with real people,why sing the praise of dissolute hacks who insult with contempt the intelligence of eager movie goers who sustain this bloody industry.
This is the last chance to get this right before another generation becomes disillusioned and turned off by this ridiculous circus.Soon movies as entertainment would be dead with access to interactive games and the rest ..that is there won’t be a industry for you to get concerned about the mouths it feeds by the privileged few.
Ah yes we can still go about this chalta hai attitude while the rest of the world snigger, as long as we make money..Please watch the movies coming out of Korea, Thailand, Taiwan etc to contemplate where we as a cultural entity stand and not just to get “inspiration”.
suparn,
interesting post though i do not agree with a lot of things you say on it. but isn’t free expression about being able to say whatever you wish to express and also about encouraging healthy debate?
it hurts when someone like anurag posts a comment like
“…and shifas if you don
Everybody says that individual opinion is of paramount interest on PFC.
And then give a small advice about how not to give opinion. Hansal, you are not doing any different with your sugared advice to Anurag. Neither did Anurag to shifas. But you should have left shifas to give that spank himself instead of taking the honeyed belt yourself. Honey or no honey, it hurts the same.
In the meantime, have you read the context of shifas comments based on which Anurag’s reply was. It was not about what being not discussed on PFC (as your comment seems to have surmised… thats what it looks), it was about what being discussed on PFC in the name of art?
there is a difference between opinion and bullying my friend omprakash…
and btw i am not reacting in my earlier comment to the context or the content of the post or the comments… neither am i offering advice to anurag or anybody else… live and let live… comment, debate, argue… co-exist… express…
and on this issue of art i’ll take you on later… it is a subjective discussion… maybe later when i get a bit drunk!
Suparn…100 brownie points to you for an honest answer straight from the heart.
But I still feel that market economics is a very bad excuse for plagiarism. And on top of that, there’s this in-your-face dishonesty on the part of directors/producers when they claim that their movie isn’t a remake and they haven’t even heard of the originals.
There are numerous instances where original cinema has been appreciated by one and all and has gone on to succeed commercially as well. I didn’t want to give examples here but just in anticipation of “Oh really? Which movies are you talking about here?” kind of responses to this comment, I’ll name a few. Right from Kismet in the 40’s, traipsing through Mother India in the 50’s, Ganga Jamuna in the 60’s, Johnny Mera Naam & Deewar in the 70’s, Raam Teri Ganga Maili in the 80’s and DDLJ in the 90’s, to the Munnabhai franchise in the current decade, we have original movies that went on to rule the BO.
And who are these “higher powers” you’re talking about here? The same clique you’ve eulogised in this post?
Hansal!!!, well I am already drunk now :d But will keep it for someother time. what i disagree with most of the comments in response to the posts by both RK and suparn verma (along with the post itself) is sketchy reasoning. there is enough space for such debates on PFC. Suparn’s article is no way better than his EKEH. And some comments against it (the post) are justified. However, some points (by some I meant really some very less percentage of the issues being raised in the post) are with some virtue (well you can question that the relativeness of these question’s veracity as they are subjective as the current discussion between us now) but most of them are petty and crap, according to my opinion. But primary posters responsibility to his statement is more than the commenters as he is the one who is making first statement. All the subsequent comments should be viewed in that context. Debates are a healthy way to enhance others point of view irrespective of one saying “ZINDABAD” or not.
Sketchy reasoning? Please elaborate.
Suparn,
I get your overall message and I agree with it, but I don
Suparn, with due respect to this post and your angst, I just want to say that I’ve always written, with complete comfort and confidence, in completely positive light for the commercial cinema that I love. I have never felt that my opinion did not matter to PFCs readers. That I left up to them. I simply did what this forum has provided me its space to do: express my opinions on cinema.
That being said I will say that I agree with the heart of your post, that cinema made with commercial content and box-office success kept in mind also equally deserves mention on this site as much as lower budget, less promoted, under-exposed cinema.
Both forms of cinema are equal to me as they are to most of the readers/writers of this site. They are both open to praise and criticism as per the reactions of the audience who invested their time and money into watching them.
The fact that I like Salaam-Namaste and hated Ta Ra Rum Pum (both films by Siddharth Raj Anand), or that I thoroughly enjoyed Namaste London (both by Vipul Shah) but found Waqt-The Race for Time to be incredibly contrived, or that I did like Hum Tum quite a bit but wasn’t such a fan of Fanaah (Kunal Kohli) should prove that it all comes down to your personal preference of films.
Then again, I don’t feel I need to prove anything.
The only things that I, and everyone else here should feel the need to do is watch films and talk about why you liked them or why you didn’t.
Will anyone out here like to say they love the jokes in David Dhawan movies?
“I LOVE SOME OF THE JOKES IN MOST OF DAVID DHAWANs FILMS”.
Will anyone here say that Main Hoon Na was a total masala entertainer?
“MAIN HOON NAA WAS A TOTAL MASALA ENTERTAINER… AND I LOVED THE FILM!”
Will anyone here say that Hey Babyy was a total fanboy comedy?
I won’t. I thought it was below average, that it was trying too hard to be funny/dramatic and it went over the top far too many times.
Will anyone here say they saw Dhamaal and laughed?
I SAW DHAMAAL AND I LAUGHED ALOT! I DON’T CARE IF IT WAS A REMAKE OF A “MAD MAD MAD WORLD” CUZ I HAVEN’T SEEN THAT FILM… NOR DID THAT FILM FEATURE ARSHARD WARSI, RITEISH DESHMUKH, JAVED JAFFERY OR SANJAY DUTT WHICH IS PRECISELY WHY I CARED ENOUGH TO WATCH DHAMAAL…
Will anyone here say they enjoyed Hum Tum?
I ENJOYED HUM TUM… IN FACT I OWN BOTH HUM TUM AND WHEN HARRY MET SALLY ON DVD… I’VE WATCHED BOTH FILMS ON THE SAME WEEKEND AND STILL APPRECIATED HUM TUM BECAUSE FOR THE LONGEST TIME I WANTED TO SEE SUCH A FILM BEING MADE IN INDIA.
There you guys. It wasn’t so hard.
Hansal, agree with u. but yes,its not me,us n them. its as simple as we dont like thier cinema. nothing personal. n when somone like suparn says that he has reason to like that cinema…he doesnt say he likes it. to repeat myself…he says he has a BIG reason to like them, then it feels terrible bad. thts it. And ya Himesh Reshammiya fan can also come n say here that he is god. but then i will hav a good luagh n say ya he is the god of supershit. the kind of people who read/write or are active here, will mostly agree with me.
“…and shifas if you don
Anurag and few others on here seem to think if you are not an Indie-Darling and watch SRK films then this site is not for you,which is what he told me,but I think this is a site for discussion of all types of movies….so I went to the video store today and rented “Black Friday” and I will now see what all the fuss is about. Maybe all his hatred of commercial cinema will transfer to the screen to make a powerful statement….I’m being open minded about it and I try not to judge something until I’ve seen it,which some posters on here don’t do.
I think everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions be it anyone. We cant expect people to be all politically correct. Anybody can say anything but in limits…and again if a person is a public figure..then it is not necessary for him/her to be politically correct always. Frankness is good…atleast one knows what people think of them.
Well, I know this isn’t the right blog to discuss “Black Friday”, but since I did say I was about to watch it I’ll make a short comment…Learned a lot,didn’t know anything about the bombings,saw Anurag’s style of filmmaking, which didn’t seem to settle for any one type of style,stayed up until 3:30 am cause I was hooked. I still feel Anurag’s comments to me were rude and hurtful just because I said I learned a lot about Indian Culture from watching Bollywood films,but I’ll have to admit it’s a shame he didn’t turn that film into the Oscar board to be considered for nomination.
[...] “real” cinema vs. pablum. Or even “us” vs. “them” as it can sometimes seem. It’s about sincerity and [...]
NoVADJ,
I personally feel that BF fans should beat up Anurag for not doing enough to ensure it goes to Oscar. He should be spanked. period.
Jwalant,
I would be more than happy to spank Anurag, but it would be like they do in the Heyy Babyy song:d
Guys Aag kafi door tak pahuch chuki hai
:)…
check this link
http://www.rediff.com/movies/2007/oct/17bolly.htm
Read that piece Shatrughan…and I can only say that the writer is confused bigtime.
He talks of KJo bashing as a serious social ill, then rants incessantly about how bad a filmmaker he is and ends with an interview he calls “hatke” and “insightful”. No reasoning given as to what was so “hatke” and “insightful” about the interview.
I still can’t make out where he stands. Wanted to post my views there too but felt that creating a rediff account for just one comment is not really worth it.
@Narcisist,completely agree with you…
PFC bashing going on in the other domains :d
OMG… besides 167… can you name the domains
@ Shtarughan
i went through the “article” and its unbelievable that this “bolly woods” would pick up on this issue ..i quote directly from his / her previous “article” on rediff
“thus providing us with an invaluable example of what ‘family values’ is all about (You never know, Karan Johar just might use this as the peg for his next film, if he can think of a title in four words each of which begins with K). ”
In fact i am enclosing the link to that article, i would suggest you go through the comments at the bottom they are priceless (comment 21 onwards)…
http://www.rediff.com/movies/2007/oct/03bolly.htm?zcc=rl
@ suchita..Sorry for the pluralism…just a case of slip of an extra “s”…but there may be something brewing up elsewhere.You never know.
LOL…wish we have a Bheja Fry 2 soon with a movie critic instead of a singer.
On a more serious note, I don’t think critics should be generalised into one type. If we have a Khalid Mohammed, we also have a Bernardo Bertolucci.
Rediff comments section & commenters zindabad!!! I LOVE Rediff comments….don’t know quite how to describe it (you can go from SRK bashing to how the Gandhis ruined India to all-out communal wars via the size of Shahid’s you-know-what vs the size of Saif’s…quite swiftly on there!!)…but I LOVE IT…never fails to make me =))
Ha ha ha… @night and Mahendra,you guys are absolutely right.
Copy and pasting some comments from rediff of same article …
1-”Please rename this article as KARAN JOHAR, the mind of a retard. This is the apt title.
He’s one of those guys who really can’t think out of the box and is simply a masala movie director. Lets try to be a little honest here and give a proper reason as to why we like his films…You cannot make approve a movie is good or the director is, just because it has all the big names in it.”
2-”Movies like Sholay and other good stuff are good only becoz some mediocre films are also made. It is all Maya. Without bad, what will be termed good?”.
3-”I am not against him making a movie on EMA. Other directors like Mahesh Bhatt et al. have made movies on Extra Marital Affair ard 2 decades ago. But I could not find any logic behind finding soulmates after marriage. Rani and SRK should have just fallen for each other, go to the hotel room and have sex. The whole melodrama of “Oh you are my soulmate” was a crap. And that last train scene- that was beyond my reach. I’d rather enjoy Emraan Hasmi’s extra marital story…”
And this one is ultimate…
4-”Hi guys,
I like his movie titles:
KKHH – Its all about loving your old girl friend
KKKG – Its all about cheating your parents and marrying
KANK – Its all about loving your friends wife
If he would have directed Spider man – than title would be
Spider man – its all about loving your web”
LOL Shatrughan…that’s Rediff comments for ya – priceless yet paisa vasool! :d
Hi Suparna
loved your blog and agree to what you had to say indeed Zulm Ki hukumat had a great performance by Govinda and we should come out in the open and appreciate commercial work as well,
Happy blogging.
tigmanshu i would like know more about hassil ..how did manage to get so many awesome dialogs..each n every talk impacts very hard in the movie and is very well written
If he would have directed Spider man – than title would be
tigmanshu… I still feel u gave ur best in star bestsellers… I m yet to see that quality of work again….u really used dialogues and silence in best way in that series…
is there any way where i can download start best sellers or any other DVD option available..
I dont knw how to get star bestsellers, even I wanna get it… tigmanshu any plans for putting it into the sale racks…
Brilliant points made, Suparn. Straightforward and perfectly logical.
I think those who are crying foul about this article truly have a hard time seeing the real picture, which shows the sad state of their (perhaps internal) struggle, more than anyone else. One gets so busy bashing the other down, he pretends to overlook his own pretentious creativity or something like it. Too bad. A little growing up should do them some good!
Funnily, all everyone does here is make personal comments, so the comments policy is rather silly.
@Mihiko,
You said it perfectly and it’s actually personal attacks, especially if you say what’s in your heart and are not trying to impress other “filmmakers” on this site.
Suparn,
Conventional economics – Rising tide is supposed to lift all boats.
In reality, just because Ambani makes money doesn’t mean Mumbai will be free of beggars. Trickle down is neither that rapid nor that selective. In reality, if Ambani makes more money, he will simply invest in in Reliance, hire new employees, build bigger plant etc. He won’t run out & hand all his profits to the beggars.
Similarly, Yash Raj won’t run out & hand his profits to Anurag. He will upgrade Yash Raj Studios & make more commercial films. You are right, money will flow back into the industry. But which industry ? The commercial Bollywood, that’s which. Not the Manorama No Smoking industry but the Laga Chunari Main Daag industry.
Indie movies are extremely risky proposition from a P&L point – to make them is extremely gutsy. Commercials are not that risky – look at balance sheet for any commercial film – just the audio tapes/CDs constitute 30-50% revenue stream.
So while you are intiutively right, practically speaking what you’ve written is complete bullshit. The two industries are very different. Next you will say if everybody buys Times of India & Filmfare then India will start getting Pulitzers & Bookers because profit buffer is created for quality writers! Zara sochne ka.
My two cents …
one a nice read….
These “masala films” that we indians come up with are of pathetic quality ……if on the other hand you go to look at the masala films that come from the west “hot fuzz” “johnny english” all of them turn oput to be pretty good movies
i didnt like dhamal it didnt make me laugh,i m not looking forward to OSO nothing in tht movie appeals to me but i did like chak de and i do look forward to sawariya
question-why has aamirs name popped up in this ?
if anything he makes good movies and does them to his best
I loved this post
@Vivek
Using the names of Hot Fuzz and Johnny English together is nothing short of blasphemy.
Hot Fuzz was a mindfreak movie. Probably one of the most underrated movies of all time. Johnny English was a huge dud despite the hallowed presence of Rowan Atkinson.
Yeah, the only thing which should count is good cinema
A good post indeed..
Hi Suparn,
Quite liked this honest and open way of putting the things across. Very well.
Hey all,
This is my first comment on PFC. THough i do agree that this site may be turning clannish in favor of the alternative cinema( which though is great) , i do not agree on the fact that just because the likes of yashraj, KJ’s & SRK’s of the world are out there making films is the reason why these alternative films are seeing the light of the day. They are doing well on their own steam, and today’s change in distribution and exhibitor industry are primary reason these movies are increasing becoming safe bets in the current scenario,Also i think the examples Mr Suparn gives here are so totally crappy movies that no person is his or right mind would appreciate. especiall Main Hoon NA, Heyy Baby, the only reason these movies were made because of clannish culture that exists in today industry. Also the comparison of Yashraj, KJ with disney is laughable. Hollywood might make commercial movies but they put in probably 100 times more effort ( an i don’t mean the moolah here) in doing them. Steven Soderbergh Ocean series is an smashingingly enjoyable and funny one, with which you can hardly comapre the likes of Heyy Baby, Main Hoon Na, KANK etc etc.
Kurosawa’s ‘Ikiru’ is about a man about retire from PWD office who musters up courage only once to stand up for his convictions. HM’s ‘Anand’ wasn’t based on Ikiru.
nice post!
few days ago i watched Laaga……..& i liked it. i also liked kank. i am waiting for SAAWARIYA, OSO, TZM , AJA NACHLE……….
cinema does not depend on the tag. every movie freak should be aware of that.
Mr.Suparn…
No need to ZINDABAD anyone…
DHAMAAL was Copy and flow was bad… KANK was bad because the very reason Amitabh has to marry JAYA in Silsilye gave the moral base to the whole story which was lacking in KANK!!!…DAVID DHAVAN doesnt make good comedies because he cant make one!… which other film you mentioned above?…MAI HOON NA…Teenagers liked it very much!!!
amm…HUM TUM was OK..but GOOD IN PARTS!
then what else? HEY BABY? come on…if camera is rolling and monkey stands behind it…something will be shot…SAJID KHAN a Director!…no comments…
as far as personal abusing is concerned…no body approves it…
Main stream cinema all over the world is not WRONG cinema…where as most of Indian Cinema is WRONG…there are some rules to every art form…we make films without following these basic rules … our films make business because of other reasons and not because those FILMS are good- commercial or parallel…!…
FILM is a Film…GOOD and BAD depends on personal choice…but inevitably one has to accept that there is another category- RIGHT and WRONG films… SUDHIR MISHRA’s ‘ HAJARON…’ was a RIGHT FILM…! JOHNNY GADDAR is a WRONG FIlm… because Once the plan to cheat fellow gang members is executed the PROTAGONIST doesnt do anything…LUCK favors him…suddenly he becomes passive…where as PROTAGONIST has to be DECISION MAKER(good or bad or grey personality but it has to be active…other wise there is no story and there is no film)… and if half way through the story if protagonist is going to be passive…then film maker should emphasize on that…which doesnt happen in JHONNY GADDAR and hence it fails to strike the emotional chord!…it is the best example of WRONG STORY TELLING! …
So in all your article is like a teenager’s outburst… you know the reason well more than any one else!…
thank you… kedar…
@ Nishant: A KANK can be made without the
I completely agree with the writer….why should the film-maker’s sexuality matter? whatever his sexual orientation is, its his personal life…there was another message by a writer on this website where he mentioned about sexual relations between KJo and SRK…so what? let them do whatever they want…to each his own…and besides everyone knows abt them…so whats the big deal….i guess this space should be utilized to discuss abt concepts and ideas and about peoples Passion For Cinema!!!
Hi Suparn,
Not sure if you remember poor Indian
Dear Suparn, I am a great fan of yours.Can you mail me your email id and contact number,please.I want to meet you once.
Regards,
Soumya De
Mob – 9892032460
Hi,
i am trying to find in tv. or in drama working spacily to work in india becuse i love my country but i didnot visit it yet. so someone can help to how to contact with the producer to intry in film star or in drama .
hope to hear from u soon.
with thanks ”
Y M
Hi Suparn
Whatever one has read about “Acid Factory” takes me to “Unknown” (2006, Simon Brand). Is my impression correct?
hi suparn.
when is acid factory releaing.how was it working with manoj,irrfan danny etc
Hey Suparn, I must say that you’ve made some valid points in your article… the fact that, we are here, just for the hunger of cinema, not for the sake of demolishing cinema. The cinema for me may not be the cinema for Kashyap or any one else. and its the other way round too… we should share equal spaces. WHY US v/s Them?
I completely support your initiative.
However on a different note, I would like to say you that Anand was not a copy of Ikiru(directed by Akira Kurosowa). And about Saawariya, well, I’ve nothing more to add here, ppl should understand Film is just not all about stories, it is more about the language or form. If ppl are starving for good stories, why do they come to see a film, they could have a collection of O Henry.
probably. one of the best article on PFC. An article which everyone here must read even before writing a comment for some article. The article turned an eye opener for me..i wish every new comer on this site must first read this article and feel the same as ‘m feeling while writing this comment….and frm heart I have bcum fan of Suparn verma jst ‘coz of this article
@futurefilmamker :
i completly agree with you….
this was probably bravest and most honest attempt on PFC, but lemme tell u… people already knew it deep down their hearts.. its just that they were too ashamed to admit